Research Group Mk. II #7 - Jynx, Druddigon, Simipour

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Nas

Banned deucer.
Past Research Group Mk I threads:

#1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6


Past Research Group Mk II threads:

#1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 |#6


Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

  • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

This Week's Research Pokemon:

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Jynx | Druddigon | Simipour
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How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the Underused Hall of Fame!

Current Participants:

Forum Name - Ladder Alt

Flareblitz - FlareSplash
jayykay - jjjyyykkk
rlyn99 - rlyn99mk2
fastflygon - FastDruddigon
neoswordmaster - Dr. Wily
Classical - The Classiest
MrGatr - gum gum
 
From just looking at movepools, simipour seems like an one-trick pony. However, I'll still be using him, along with Jynx

my alt is jjjyyykkk
 
In as FastDruddigon, using, you guessed it, the big blue dragon. Been meaning to build bulky offense for a while, thanks for the excuse!
 
Been running the standard sets first for the two pokemon.

CB druddigon just shits on so many things, and it has excellent bulk. It also has rough skin to deal with things in a pinch.

The Subplot Jynx set is amazing, because it sets up on many common pokemon in UU(e.g. Bulky waters; Roserade.) I might switch it to a SubCM set, for added survivablity.

I have also been running Hitmontop and Rotom-H alongside the two, as Montop helps in spinning duties and for taking dark and bug attacks aimed at Jynx, and Rotom-H for ice and fire attacks. SubSD Escavalier is also an excellent partner to the two, as it checks the ever dangerous MoxieCross, and takes those dragon attacks for druddigon.
 
After using jynx and simipour for several games, I think it's time to ditch simipour. I think i'm gonna use druddigon and jynx from now on. Jynx has been a pretty good mon in right situations. It totally screws rain dance team, and is also deceptively fast enough to put many mons into sleep. The main problem of simipour is that it is just so mediocre. Cannot hit hard enough, and its defense is too weak to switch into anything. Its speed isn't bad, but it's not fast enough to warrant spec set nor is it strong enough to use scarf. If anybody wants to use him as a main attacker, it will need an ample amount of support to pull it off.
 
I haven't had a chance to try Druddigon out yet but I punched a few movesets into the one vs. all damage calculator. It's pretty easy to come up with a set of moves that 2HKO every Pokemon in UU provided you give it SR support. I went with Sheer Force ThunderPunch and Fire Punch because I wanted it to depend on outrage as little as possible. Mold Breaker EQ is nice but it's still setup fodder for flying types, and I can't see how being choice-locked into Sucker Punch is remotely a good idea. ThunderPunch hits bulky waters hard, 2HKOing all of them, and also covers flying types when something threatening is just waiting for you to lock yourself into an Outrage. Superpower rounds out the coverage by smashing Porygon2 and also obliterates dark-type Pokemon.

Since Druddigon is so slow I'm expecting I won't want to lock it into Outrage earlygame, so I set it up based on that. If I find otherwise I may end up playing with the set a bit.

Planning to pair it with a bulky SubDD kingdra using a spread I posted on IRC a couple of days ago, sets up all over a ton of stuff andvshould run through teams once the bulkier stuff is suitably smashed.
 
Currently at 1716 with a 5 match winning streak

I switched my NP jynx for a CM one, and I must say it does pretty well. My one nitpick I have with the CM set is that it loses much initial power as compared with the NP one. Also, I am going to swap out ice beam for psychic.

Even though Ice beam does have better neutral coverage, having absolutely no pokemon immune to it(well besides shedninja, but thats besides the point), Psychic does better against the Bulky waters it sets up on. Also, psychic allows it to beat chandy if you have a sub up, which is very important in this chandy-infested metagame. Im not sure whether Psyshock or Psychic will prove to be more useful, but ill try and test both.
 
Simipour and Jynx are glass cannons that go crazy powerful in rain and dual screen teams. A simple Nasty Plot + Salac Simipour can be a devastating sweeper that can even outrun ScarfCross. Removing Flygon first is a good idea, though, as Simipour ties speed with Flygon.

Jynx is hard as hell to use without significant amounts of support, but it can be devastating to deal with behind screens or rain.
 
A dude said:
Simipour and Jynx are glass cannons that go crazy powerful in rain and dual screen teams. A simple Nasty Plot + Salac Simipour can be a devastating sweeper that can even outrun ScarfCross. Removing Flygon first is a good idea, though, as Simipour ties speed with Flygon.

Jynx is hard as hell to use without significant amounts of support, but it can be devastating to deal with behind screens or rain.
Click to expand...

Simipour is actually 1 base speed higher than Flygon though
 
Though I didn't really participate, I'd like to give my experience with jynx. She's incredibly powerful, but also very frail. The best set I found is Sub-Kiss.

Jynx@ life orb
Timid Ability: Dry skin
252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Substitute/Lovely Kiss/Ice beam/Focus blast

It's simple, set up a substitute on a bulky water, opponent switches in counter, either attack or use lovely kiss to render it useless. If jynx gets the chance to set up a sub(which happens quite easily do to the omnipresence of bulky waters) she's absolutely devastating to HO teams and defensive teams. She can 2HKO snorlax and porygon2 with focus blast after rocks! That's just how strong she is. She has a few flaws, shit defense, bad typing, and sub par speed. Her speed is good, but it would be ideal if it was over 100. She also needs a bit of support, rapid spin isn't that necessary, if you can up the offensive momentum enough to keep rocks off the field, it's fine. She works really well with hazard support so give her a few layers of spikes or Sr and you're set. Swampert makes a great partner as they both cover each other quite decently. Overall, I was pleasantly surprised, by how good jynx is. She functions a bit like darkrai under a sub, and if you've played against subvoid darkrai, you know how strong it is.
 
Having now played a few games with Druddigon, I'll give my initial thoughts:

It's really damn strong, and it also has pretty solid bulk, but 48 speed is really dragging it down. I put a fair bit of speed into mine and it still only outruns 0 speed base 70s. This is an issue because it means there are a crapton of walls you can't outrun, giving them a chance to heal off or fire off an attack after switching into an Outrage. Gligar is much more solid against Druddigon as opposed to Flygon because it can easily roost off the Outrage and stall for confusion. You won't ever outrun it without a Jolly nature, while Flygon can go for the 2HKO if Gligar is weakened. I also found things like Cresselia could absorb the hit and Ice Beam me, which was pretty annoying. Although you 2HKO the whole tier, it actually finds it kind of tough to do so because so many things can outrun it and exploit the Outrage lock.

It seems like it would be very potent with Paralysis support, however.

I also ran into someone using a defensive shuffler with Rocky Helmet, and as we were talking after the battle he mentioned that it was amusing having Ambipom go for the Fake Out turn one and lose almost half its health from the combination of Rough Skin, Rocky Helmet and Life Orb. It didn't actually do much in our game since I ended up getting my own Druddigon in off of a Dragon Tail and he didn't want to switch anything into Outrage, but I think it ought to be pretty potent with the right setup.

May also end up trying out Simipour, not sure.
 
Played several games today to crank my rating to 1550ish, and here's my thought on jynx and druddigon so far.

I'm currently using life orb + 3 attack set on Jynx. It is hard as hell to switch into, but once it switches in, it can usually put something into sleep and hit whatever comes in pretty hard (currently have Ice beam/Psychic/Shadow ball). However, it isn't strong enough to OHKO faster threat with LO, so I might need to switch to NP or CM set.

As for druddigon, I'm running bulky attacker set with rocky helmet + rough skin, Stealth rock, sucker punch, Dragon tail, and superpower. I kinda made the set on the fly, and (therefore naturally) was less then spectacular. I thought it could have some potential as bulky attacker with a little bit of physical wall role, but without reliable recovery, it's not that easy to achieve the goal. I think I need suggestion on how to better use this bad boy.

Jynx and simipour in raindance team sounds kinda interesting. I might end up making another team to give Simipour a second chance lol
 
Not in the RG here, but still thought I'd throw my comments out there.

Druddigon is great with SR and Sucker Punch to alleviate its puny speed. It's nice and bulky and trolls so many physical attackers, so the bulk is put to good use. On the other hand, while it hits hard (especially the CB set) it's revenge killed pretty easily and stuff like Weavile just destroys it.

Simipour is... interesting. Nice stats, especially that 101 base speed. Access to Nasty Plot make it a decent wallbreaker and a good check to anything slower than it. Unfortunately it relies pretty heavily on nabbing a boost somehow to do stuff (or Specs, that's an idea) and its horrible defenses do nothing for that prospect.

Ice Queen Jynx is amazing. I've used her in OU more than once, but with the new Genesect-oriented metagame, it's fast becoming underwhelming. Base 95 speed is nice to begin with, but that base 115 Sp.A, with access to great moves like Calm Mind and Nasty Plot, make her a dangerous threat in her own right. In rain, she can tank with Substitute + CM. Great ability, too! Only thing bad is the typing and physical defense, which ensure that stuff like Scarf Darmanitan will be forcing Jynx out in short order.
 
I've been trying out a bulky support set rather than go out all offensive.

Druddigon @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch
- Dragon Tail
- Glare

Not terrible. The purpose of the set is to set up rocks either as a lead or against a physical attacker and phase and paralyze the opponent's team. The combination of Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin dissuades physical attacks and helps rack up damage. Glare at 75% accuracy hits decently, but can still miss at times. Sucker Punch is pretty much there as a placeholder and at 132 Speed, Druddgion loves priority. I was able to take out half a team utilizing this set alone as a lead. Druddigon has enough natural attack to make Dragon Tails take decent chunks out of the opponent and the only physical threat he fears is Weavile. This set is not that useful as a primary physical wall, as the types it resists are more often special, and Drudge does not have any reliable recovery. Wishes help, but more often than not I end up using him as a suicide lead.
 
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