Lower Tiers RBY PU Hub

[Volk]

RBY PU


Welcome to the RBY PU Viability Rankings and Discussion Thread! With the first official NU VR being published in April 2022, the RBY Community can finally begin to explore its new lowest tier: PU.​

Resources
In the spoilers below you can find some helpful resources. Please wait patiently as they are completed. (Most of them are done now, yay!)

Viability Rankings
Here is the second official VR for the tier. It was formed by aggregating data from the VRs of several players that performed well in RBY PU Tournaments in 2024.
See Post #136 on Page 6 for the Raw Data

November/December 2023 VR

S
Arcanine

A
Staryu
Fearow
Nidoqueen
Seaking

B1
Graveler
Gastly
Porygon

B2
Machamp
Abra

B3
Vileplume
Rapidash
Pinsir

~PU/ZU Cutoff~

C1
Magmar
Dragonair
Drowzee
Magneton
Scyther
Sandslash

D
Omanyte
Arbok
Butterfree
Poliwag
Slowpoke

E
Marowak
Pidgeot

Sample Teams
Here are some sample teams for the tier.

Sample Teams

Big Six Lead Arcanine by gastlies
Big Six Lead Queen by gastlies
Lead Nidoqueen + Scyther by gastlies
Standard Magmar by gastlies
Lead Nidoqueen + Rapidash by Teh
Double Sleep by Teh
Double Water + Vileplume by NotVeryCake
Lead Arcanine + Agility Porygon by NotVeryCake
Lead Nidoqueen + AgilityWrap Dragonair by NotVeryCake
Standard Omanyte by Gangsta Spongebob
Graveler + Machamp by Wanted in 49 States
Lead Nidoqueen + Graveler by Gangsta Spongebob
Lead Gastly +Magneton + Pisnir by BeatsBlack
Omanyte + Drowzee by Sabelette
Double Bug Hyper Offense by Volk

Note: Some team names are my own and were not selected by the submitter.

Challenge Command
Great news! RBY PU is now directly challengeable on Pokemon Showdown!

Legality List
Here is a complete list of legal Pokemon that are in the final stage of their evolutionary line. Note, not all of these Pokemon are likely going to be viable. You can also see it here on the Smogon Strategy Pokedex.

List of Legal Fully-evolved Pokemon

Arbok
Arcanine
Beedrill
Butterfree
Ditto
Farfetch’d
Fearow
Flareon
Golbat
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Lickitung
Machamp
Magmar
Magneton
Marowak
Muk
Nidoqueen
Onix
Parasect
Pidgeot
Pinsir
Porygon
Primeape
Rapidash
Sandslash
Scyther
Seaking
Vileplume
Weezing

NFE Pokemon
Here is a list of notable NFE Pokemon. This list isn't exhaustive, so there may be some other interesting ones out there that I missed.

Notable (and Legal) NFE Pokemon

Abra
Dragonair
Drowzee
Gastly
Graveler
Omanyte
Pikachu
Poliwag
Slowpoke
Staryu
Weepinbell

With that out of the way, go ahead and experiment in the new RBY PU!

 

[Volk]

Here is where I'll be storing outdated stuff that was initially in the Original Post. Consider it an archive.

Initial Speculation, Moved 3/7/23

Speculation
*Please note that this speculation was written at the start of the tier, so much of it is considered outdated.*
Anyway, time for some speculation! In the spoiler below, you can find a list of Pokemon that I think will most likely be prominent in PU. I tried to be charitable here, so you might find some of my picks generous. Don't want to discourage creativity too much. Feel free to suggest Pokemon that I can add to this list. At some point, I'd like to write some brief descriptions for each one and what their role might be / is in the tier.

Potential Major Threats

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Finally, the spoiler below contains a watchlist. Obviously nothing will be banned from the start, but there are some Pokemon that seem like they could be problematic. For those of you unaware, an early version of PU (missing a few Pokemon that are now legal) has been being played for a couple of months now, so this speculation is primarily based on games from that meta.

Watchlist

All four fully-evolved Fire-type Pokemon (Arcanine, Flareon, Magmar, and Rapidash) have the potential to be problematic. They are all largely very quick and have above average offenses, both physically and specially. Due to their above average stats, the overall lack of strong Water-type Pokemon to check them, and the fact that they check each other, Fire-type Pokemon will likely be an essential part of any RBY PU team. Outside of the handful of Rock-types in the tier (which still don’t want to take Fire Blast), very few checks are available. Fire-type Pokemon may potentially limit teambuilding and force certain Pokemon on to almost every team. Also, while only Rapidash and Flareon have it, Fire Spin is always a dangerous move, especially if the average Speed of the tier is low.


Nidoqueen was a standout choice during the testing stages of PU. It has respectable bulk and Speed and boasts incredible coverage. Switching into Nidoqueen was very difficult and few Pokemon could even beat it in the head-to-head. It was not uncommon to see Nidoqueen score two or even three KOes, sometimes without even switching. While most of the new drops are still weak to Nidoqueen, the tier is a lot faster now. Nidoqueen will probably be easier to revenge kill now, so it might be a little more manageable.


Dragonair saw infrequent use during the early stages of PU. Regardless, Dragonair maintains its ability to exploit Agility + Wrap. With a tier that is slower, frailer, and has fewer Ice-type moves and paralysis moves, Dragonair may finally be able to abuse the most infamous strategy in RBY down here in PU.

Original Introduction, Moved 3/25/23

Welcome to the RBY PU Pre-Alpha Viability Rankings and Discussion Thread! With the first official NU VR being published in April 2022, the RBY Community can finally begin to explore its new lowest tier: PU. Because the tier is so new and we want to encourage creativity, no Viability Rankings will be provided at this time. However, we will cover some major threats and a few things that are on the radar.

Viability Rankings
Here is a basic VR for the tier. It hasn't been verified mathematically or anything like that, so don't take it too seriously.

S Rank
Nidoqueen
Rapidash

A Rank
Arcanine
Fearow
Magmar
Omanyte
Pinsir
Seaking
Vileplume

B Rank
Abra
Dragonair
Drowzee
Electrode
Graveler
Machamp
Poliwag
Sandslash
Slowpoke
Staryu

C Rank
Gastly
Onix
Primeape
Scyther

D Rank
Butterfree
Flareon
Muk
Parasect
Weepinbell

Legality Changes & General Fixes, Updated 7/15/23

Old Banner (RIP Abra)

Pokemon Lists

Electrode removed from the Legality List after being moved to NU.
Porygon added to the Legality List after dropping from NU.
Ponyta removed for the Notable NFE Pokemon for being considered largely unviable.
Diglett removed from the Notable NFE Pokemon for being considered largely unviable.

Old Challenge Command

Challenge Command
Here is the challenge command you can use to play PU on Pokemon Showdown! Hopefully PU will become challengeable in the future, so this won't be necessary.
Challenge Command
/challenge gen1nu @@@ -Mr. Mime, -Charizard, -Clefable, -Blastoise, -Poliwhirl, -Kabutops, -Nidoking, -Moltres, -Venomoth, -Golem, -Kingler, -Exeggcute, -Seadra, -Raticate, -Porygon, -Wigglytuff, -Ninetales
Great news! RBY PU is now directly challengeable on Pokemon Showdown!

Old Sample Teams, Removed 8/30/23

Weepinbell Fireless by TehTayTeh
Triple Water Pinsir by EmaSkye
Lead Dragonair Psychic Spam by Ctown6
Lead Slowpoke Water Spam by Ctown6
Lead Dragonair + Machamp by nicole7735
Lead Slowpoke + Pinsir by nicole7735
Lead Poliwag + Fearow by nicole7735
Vileplume Water Spam by chub

Old February 2023 VR, Removed 12/16/23

Here is a basic VR for the tier. It was formed by aggregating data from the VRs of several players that performed well in RBY PU's inaugural tournament, Pioneer.
See Post #53 on Page 3 for the Raw Data
S
Nidoqueen

A
Pinsir
Fearow
Staryu
Rapidash

B1
Seaking
Drowzee

B2
Dragonair
Machamp

B3
Abra
Omanyte
Graveler
Gastly

C
Slowpoke
Arcanine
Vileplume
Magmar
Sandslash
Poliwag

D
Weepinbell
Arbok
Electrode
Primeape

Old Sample Teams, Removed 1/2/24

Here are some sample teams for the tier.

Sample Teams

Big Six by Gastlies
Lead Staryu Double Fire by Gastlies
Lead Dragonair Double Water by Gastlies
Lead Gastly Double Fire by Gangsta Spongebob
Lead Nidoqueen + Pinsir + Omanyte by Gangsta Spongebob
Lead Magmar Standard by Sabelette
Lead Staryu Bulky Offense by Sabelette
Lead Drowzee + Pinsir + Omanyte by Sabelette
Sharpen Porygon by Torchic
Basic Balance by sparks bloom
Seaking Paralysis Spam by Wanted in 49 States
Lead Dragonair + Machamp by phoopes

Note: Some team names are my own and were not selected by the submitter.

November/December 2023 VR, Removed 12/17/24

Here is the first official VR for the tier. It was formed by aggregating data from the VRs of several players that performed well in RBY PU Tournaments in 2023.
See Post #93 on Page 4 for the Raw Data

November/December 2023 VR

S
Nidoqueen
Fearow
Arcanine
Seaking

A
Rapidash
Staryu
Gastly
Drowzee
Porygon

B1
Vileplume
Graveler
Dragonair
Scyther
Magmar

B2
Pinsir
Omanyte
Machamp

~PU/ZU Cutoff~

C1
Sandslash
Abra

C2
Slowpoke
Magneton
Arbok
Weepinbell

D1
Poliwag
Primeape
Marowak
Pidgeot

D2
Muk
Weezing

~Reserved~

 

[Fawfulmk-II]

Definitely looking forward to the exploration of mons like Parasect and even Pikachu.

...Though personally speaking I am more anticipating the hypothetical ZU. That Hitmonchan vs. Meowth matchup is just facinating to me and has been on my brain for a while.

 

[Bella]

Nidoqueen and Arcanine in this meta seems really overbearing, but im excited to see it play out. Maybe ill have an excuse for a Seaking niche or something crazy lol

 

[roxie]

Made a quick Speed Tiers Resource:

Final Speed Stat​	Pokemon​	Base Speed​	Boost​
618​	Rapidash, Scyther​	105​	+2​
596​	Fearow​	100​	+2​
584​	Arcanine​	95​	+2​
560​	Pidgeot​	91​	+2​
556​	Pikachu​	90​	+2​
500​	Hitmonchan​	76​	+2​
496​	Beedrill​	75​	+2​
476​	Dragonair​	70​	+2​
436​	Farfetch'd​	60​	+2​
378​	Electrode​	140​	-​
308​	Rapidash, Scyther​	105​	-​
298​	Fearow​	100​	-​
292​	Arcanine, Primeape, Diglett​	95​	-​
284​	Magmar​	93​	-​
280​	Pidgeot​	91​	-​
278​	Golbat, Abra, Pikachu, Poliwag, Ponyta​	90​	-​
272​	Hitmonlee​	87​	-​
268​	Pinsir, Staryu​	85​	-​
258​	Arbok, Charmeleon, Gastly​	80​	-​
250​	Hitmonchan, Nidoqueen​	76​	-​
248​	Beedrill​	75​	-​
238​	Butterfree, Magneton, Onix, Dragonair​	70​	-​
234​	Seaking​	68​	-​
228​	Flareon, Sandslash​	65​	-​
218​	Farfetch'd, Weezing, Ivysaur​	60​	-​
208​	Machamp, Weepinbell​	55​	-​
198​	Muk, Vileplume​	50​	-​
194​	Ditto​	48​	-​
188​	Marowak​	45​	-​
168​	Clefairy, Graveler, Omantye​	35​	-​
158​	Lickitung, Parasect​	30​	-​
128​	Slowpoke​	15​	-​

 

[Fawfulmk-II]

^I guess it's worth a mention that Pikachu has a +2 option as well via Agility.
Godspeed to the brave soul who gets that setup though.

 

[roxie]

Fire Spin Pivot

Rapidash
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Spin
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
- Hyper Beam

Rapidash is easily a top Pokemon because of its high Speed. Overall, Fire-types have a nice way of wearing down Water- and Rock-types like Staryu, Poliwag, and Graveler with its combination of Fire Spin + Toxic. Fire Blast and Hyper Beam are more consistent than Fire Spin and they're nice for picking off KOes when Pokemon are low on the health of course. This tier isn't like Gen1NU with a Rest Blastoise at the moment, however, I've personally been liking Rest Seaking to mimic that role. Generally, teams should be running at least 2 Fire resistances.

All-Out-Attacking

Nidoqueen (F)
Ability: No Ability
- Earthquake
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Rock Slide

Nidoqueen is glue on pretty much all of my teams because its coverage is quite amazing. Thunderbolt hits Water-types like Slowpoke and Poliwag, Blizzard hits Grass-types like Vileplume, and Rock Slide hits Flying-types like Butterfree and Scyther. It's obviously a bulkier Nidoking and that allows it to chunk hits better like Electrode's Explosion. Having an Electric-immunity is important in this tier or you'll fold to Electrode. Nidoqueen, unlike Onix and Graveler, isn't prone to Pikachu's Surf lmfao, so please run Nidoqueen on like 97% of your teams.

 

[Stonecat]

I’ve gone through my thoughts on some of the Pokemon in the current metagame below. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who’s only played about a dozen or so games of this format in its current/new state, so I could be mistaken about some things.



Leads:

Rapidash- The most consistent mon to open with in my experience so far. Tied for the second-fastest in the tier with Scyther, who almost never has a reason to stay in on it at any point in a game. Fire Spin makes for a safe pivot into whatever matches up well against what’s currently on the other side of the field. Most Rock-types have to be wary about switching in, as Fire Blast has a 30% burn rate. Toxic and Body Slam both make a nice fourth move, but Toxic arguably has more utility when compounded with Fire Spin.

Poliwag- The fastest sleeper in the tier, also packing Amnesia to boost its damage output and ability to tank special hits. Surf and Blizzard/Psychic round of the moveset, with the second attack being up for debate. Walled fairly well by Seaking and Slowpoke, and 2HKO’d by a lot of physical attackers.



Fires:

Rapidash- (already covered above)

Arcanine- While it lacks the utility of Fire Spin that a couple other Fire-types in the tier have, it makes up for it with its superior bulk and all-around competent stats. Body Slam —> Hyper Beam is able to 2HKO the likes of Staryu and Slowpoke, and Body Slam is generally a nice way to potentially nerf other incoming Water-types with its 30% paralysis chance. Agility makes for a nice way to avoid Fire Spin chip from Rapidash, I suppose. Rest may also have some utility as a fourth move in mid-late game scenarios if Arcanine’s main checks have been removed.

Magmar- Possesses a decent speed tier overall and better coverage than the other fires. Psychic can be nice for fishing for Special drops on incoming Water-types, while Submission hits Rock-types for super-effective damage. Confuse Ray is another option to potentially flip the table on switch-ins.

Flareon- Has the strongest Fire Blast in the tier, in addition to being the only Fire-type here aside from Rapidash to have Fire Spin. That said, its lackluster base 65 speed means that it won’t get as many opportunities to pivot with and/or spam it as Rapidash does. Can 3HKO Seaking with Body Slam —> Body Slam —> Hyper Beam and 2HKO Staryu with Body Slam —> Hyper Beam. 3HKO’s Graveler and has a high chance to 2HKO Onix with Fire Blast. A very threatening Pokémon aside from its already mentioned, low-ish speed stat.



Waters:

Seaking- The bulkiest Water-type in the tier, making it the one best suited to switch into an opposing mon if/when needed. Surf and Blizzard provide super-effective coverage for many matchups, while Double-Edge and Hyper Beam handle Water-types. Rest as a fourth move in place of anything aside from Surf can be helpful, especially in the event of a mirror match.

Staryu- While frail, it makes an excellent switch-in to Seaking if running Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave. Surf hits Fires, Rocks, and Grounds super-effectively, though it has to be careful about switching into any attacks that aren’t resisted. And, although frail, Recover can provide it with longevity if used at the proper times.

Poliwag- (already covered above)

Slowpoke- It can make for a very effective, slow Amnesia sweeper if setup properly. Amnesia, Rest, Psychic, and Thunder Wave/Surf seems to work best. Checks Poliwag very well if it has already slept something. Must be wary of physical attackers.

Omanyte- Arguably the best Fire-type check in the tier, quad-resisting the type and largely not being concerned with getting burned. Surf and Blizzard are only both resisted by Water-types, which Omanyte doesn’t want to stay in on regardless. Body Slam is nice for hitting said Waters on the switch, ideally grabbing a paralysis in the process. Rest provides longevity, restoring HP and shedding any potential burn or poison, and allows it to wall Fire-types near-indefinitely.



Normal-Resists:

Graveler- Arguable the best switch-in to Fearow, and the second best to Scyther, both of which are otherwise major threats to any team. Ground and Rock provide unresisted neutral coverage options, with Explosion always looming above the opponent as a way to blast though would-be checks. Body Slam is nice for the paralysis chance against incoming Water-types, while Substitute serves as a mid ground option for unknown switch-ins, and can allow Graveler to safely boom against an opposing Water that has already come in.

Onix- Base 160 Defense is nothing to scoff at, but base 45 Attack is pretty pitiful, and makes Graveler the clear better choice for a Rock/Ground-type in most scenarios. That said, Bind makes for a nice pivoting move when paired with base 70 Speed, particularly against slower water types such as Slowpoke and Seaking (taking 290% from a Seaking Surf if you miss once or twice does suck, though).

Omanyte- (already covered above)

Gastly- A Pokemon that I haven’t noticed being used nearly as much as I thought it would for the utility is has. Its Physical Defenses are pretty poor, but being the second fastest sleeper in the tier and having base 100 Special with good coverage moves in Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Mega Drain definitely make it a good choice for many teams. Additionally, it hard walls both Scyther and Pinsir, forcing them to switch and getting off either a free Hypnosis or any attack of its choice. Explosion seems like somewhat of a wasted moveslot given the other options it has.



Other Pure-Physcial Attackers:

Scyther- An excellent late-game sweeper, but it’s otherwise walled by any Rock-type or Gastly. Given that it’s already tied for the second-fastest mon in the tier, I find that a moveset of Slash, Double-Edge, Hyper Beam, and Swords Dance works very well. Opposing Rapidash are often already down or paralyzed by the time Scyther hits the field, meaning it rarely has the need to click Agility. Electrode does outspeed it, but Scyther likely doesn’t want to stay in in that matchup anyway.

Pinsir- A slower, but somewhat bulkier and stronger Scyther with better coverage. It’s still walled by Gastly, but Submission allows it to hit Rock-types for super-effective damage, and quite potently if Pinsir has already gotten up a Swords Dance. Has a better matchup against Nidoqueen than Scyther does.

Fearow- Another good late-game mon. Walled by Rock-types, but Drill Peck does give it a way to 2HKO Gastly. Outspeeds most opposing Pokémon that you’re likely to encounter in a late-game scenario, aside from Scyther (which it has a positive matchup against) and Electrode (who doesn’t want to switch into a Double-Edge, as Hyper Beam is likely to finish it off the next turn).

Sandslash- Yet another solid late-game cleaner, but it can also pretty safely switch into an opposing Graveler, Onix, or Electrode and either retaliate with Earthquake or set up a Swords Dance. Unfortunately, due to its lower Speed stat than some of the previous mons, along with its Water weakness, it seems to often end up trading. Two EQ’s or a +2 EQ chunks opposing Water-types, but they’ll usually be able to finish off Slash or at least bring it down into the red in return.

Machamp- A good wallbreaker if ever there was one, and a mon that I now feel the desire to use in this tier more after looking at some calcs for writing this. With its low Speed stat and inability to slow any form of recovery due to already having 4MSS, Machamp likely isn’t going to last long in most games. That said, it has the Attack and coverage moves necessary to put in some serious damage before it does. Earthquake and Hyper Beam are both too good of moves to drop here, with the last two going to any of Body Slam, Rock Slide, Submission, and Seismic Toss. Rock Slide is an excellent choice for hitting Scyther and Pinsir, as they otherwise somewhat-wall Machamp. Submission is a clean 2HKO against all of Graveler, Onix, and Lickitung, while Seismic Toss is the best option that Machamp has for Vileplume (aside from switching out).



Miscellaneous:

Nidoqueen- The best mon in the tier, as far as I’m concerned. Its coverage options are unrivaled by anything else present in the format, and it almost always ends up trading for at least one, often more, opposing Pokémon. Earthquake is mandatory, while other useful moves include Blizzard (for Grounds, Flyings, Grasses), Fire Blast (for Bugs and Grasses), Thunderbolt (for Waters and Flyings), Surf (for OHKO against Rock/Grounds), and Rock Slide (for Bugs).

Abra- An excellent revenge-killer. 105 Special and 90 Speed let’s it finish off a lot of mons that have already been chipped with Psychic. Seismic Toss is the best way to deal with opposing Abra and/or Drowzee. Substitute is arguably the best mid ground option to click if you suspect the opponent will switch, but you’re not sure what’s coming in.

Drowzee- The best Abra check in the tier. Hypnosis makes for a nice utility move, too.

Vileplume- A good check to all of Machamp, Primeape, Electrode, and SurfBolt Staryu. Double powder moves make it an excellent non-lead status spreader. Mega Drain provides a bit more longevity along with being a good way to handle Omanyte and the Rock/Grounds. Body Slam let’s it fish for a para on incoming Fire-types, but you’re probably better off clicking Stun Spore.

Weepinbell- Functions largely the same as Vileplume. Razor Leaf is a much stronger STAB move, though Weepinbell has all-around worse stats aside from its slighter higher Attack.

Muk- Will likely end up being an effective trader, as it often is in NU. A combination of Acid Armor and Mega Drain let’s it act as a lure and makeshift check to Graveler and Onix. Explosion is undroppable for obvious reasons. Sludge or Body Slam let’s it’s chunk physically frail mons without having to boom that would otherwise check it, such as Abra. Fire Blast and Thunderbolt both have potential utility, too.

Electrode- Makes an excellent check to opposing Water and Flying-types, but the present of any Ground-type, especially Rock/Grounds, totally shuts it down. Seems best as a late-game cleaner for that reason, ideally not hitting the field until said Grounds have been dealt with.



Some other mons that I’ve yet to use or run many calcs for, but I think have good potential for the tier, include: Dragonair, Primeape, Weezing, Marowak, and Lickitung.

 

[AM]

Couple sets for the ladies and gents as I played some tests with Shell yesterday.

BigSlash

Sandslash
Ability: No Ability
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Body Slam
- Swords Dance

Offensive Seaking

Seaking
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Blizzard/Ice Beam
- Hyper Beam
- Agility

ReturnOfTheDemon

Dragonair
Ability: No Ability
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Wrap
- Agility

BigNosePapiJr

Drowzee
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Hypnosis

Think a lot of mons available won't be as good as portrayed but there's probably a decent enough pool for some variety once you've added obligatory Rapidash, Nidoqueen, and insert mon that doesnt autolose to Rapidash.

 

[phoopes]

Been playing this tier a bit and I think it's pretty cool, with a bunch of 'mons having the potential to be viable! Want to make a comment on two 'mons that I feel are not being used enough in the tier at the moment.

Dragonair: If you know me from playing UU you knew I was going to experiment with Dragonair. And what I've found is that it's pretty good. I've found you can bring it in on a lot of different targets to set up AgiliWrap (lol). We don't have usage stats/a good idea of the metagame yet but it certainly feels like there aren't a whole lot of Thunder Waves getting tossed around. And with the power level being lower it can normally take a Blizzard as well. So yeah, Dragonair/AgiliWrap may be something to keep an eye on. Not saying you should run Toxic on everything quite yet, but Dragonair feels a lot better here than it does in UU/NU.

Machamp: Machamp is really intriguing to me. It gets 3HKO'd by Nidoqueen's Earthquake a negligible amount of the time while 2HKOing with its own Earthquake like 98% of the time. This means you can pretty much safely switch in Machamp on EQ and still win the 1 vs 1 which I think is pretty big. There's no perfect Nidoqueen counter in this tier but I think this is the closest thing we have? I can't think of anything else in the tier with that kind of defensive/offensive prowess to duel Nidoqueen, so Machamp could really be worth using more than we have been so far.

One other quick thought is that I'm trying to figure out something to use in the lead slot other than Poliwag/Rapidash and I'm not really thinking of anything besides maybe Electrode? But Electrode gets absolutely stuffed by Graveler/even Nidoqueen so it's not ideal.

 

[AM]

Think Rapidash and sometimes Poliwag should be the only leads used, key word sometimes, Hypnosis is the most inconsistent move. I dont think there's a point to run anything other than Rapidash lead anyways, it's faster than most of the tier, the good portion at least, so fire spin is normally free and it also keeps momentum in your favor. I think the OP while a general guide to the beggining portions of the format grossly underestimates the constraint Rapidash puts on the tier. The other fires are quite manageable and also every team should have Rapidash/Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen isnt as problematic to the format that I think some have mentioned and its nice to have that top mon but I do think Rapidash needs to be looked at in the future.

 

[phoopes]

Going to take a stab at a VR here, just solely based on vibes without any real descriptions here, post yours/feel free to discuss!

S:
Nidoqueen

A+:
Poliwag
Rapidash

A:
Abra
Arcanine
Graveler
Magmar
Omanyte
Seaking

B+:
Dragonair
Fearow
Machamp
Pinsir
Primeape
Vileplume

B:
Drowzee
Electrode
Flareon
Gastly
Sandslash
Scyther
Slowpoke
Staryu

(below here are 'mons I've seen very infrequently/not at all so it's completely vibes-based)

C:
Arbok
Butterfree
Diglett
Lickitung
Onix
Muk
Parasect
Wartortle
Weepinbell
Weezing

D/F:
Rest

 

[AM]

Couple basic teams to get those interested started or use as a baseline. First one is the most basic of basic.

 

[wooper]

Couple basic teams to get those interested started or use as a baseline. First one is the most basic of basic.

what role does mirror move have on fearow over something like agility? i can only think about switching into a predicted earthquake from a weakened graveler or onix and then picking it off. does it have any other niches?

 

[AM]

what role does mirror move have on fearow over something like agility? i can only think about switching into a predicted earthquake from a weakened graveler or onix and then picking it off. does it have any other niches?

Allows you to mirror move things like Blizzard from Nidoqueen as a mid-ground. I'll give credit to phoopes for spamming this move in some test games on me, I thought it wasn't that useful until he used it. I didnt find Agility that useful in testing personally and eventually changed out Agility on all the Fearows for this but Agility is definitely an option Fearows movepool is pretty bare you're normally only going to spam 3 moves on it most times.

 

[Stonecat]

Figured I’d toss out a team I’ve had some fun and success with in this format so far, probably my favorite of the ones I’ve made to date.

Submission Bros

Rapidash- Lead Rapidash does, well… lead Rapidash things. Fire Blast and Hyper Beam are your nukes, Fire Spin is to wear things down and pivot out on mons such as lead Poliwag, and Toxic can be nice to throw out to potentially put an opposing Rapidash on a timer, and/or to stack damage in conjunction with Fire Spin against a number of slower mons.

Nidoqueen- Queen is pretty much essential on every team, but this moveset accomplishes a few things. Earthquake is there as your hardest hit against most targets, Blizzard is primarily for Fearow and Sandslash, Fire Blast is for the Bugs as well as trying to fish for a burn on any physical attackers (either of the last two moves are fine to click against the grasses, when it’s worth staying in on them), and finally, Surf is for a guaranteed OHKO against Graveler and Onix, helping to keep Nidoqueen quite healthy by not forcing it to eat an opposing EQ in order to 2HKO either of said mons with its own Earthquake or Blizzard. While this team does have two water types, neither of them particularly want to switch into a STAB Earthquake or eating an Explosion.

Omanyte- The team’s best check against opposing Rapidash, Arcanine, Flareon, Scyther, and Fearow. It can sit on those Fire-types all day, which also makes it a pretty nice sleep sack if your opponent brings a sleeper, particularly Poliwag. In many cases, sleep means a dead mon in RBY, but with Omanyte’s resistance to Normal and quad-resistance to Fire, it can simply come in on opposing Fires after their sleeper has been dealt with and slowly burn turns, often finding itself able to wake up and heal with Rest before it goes down. At which point it can once again threaten the opponent with Surf, Blizzard, and the possibility of a Body Slam paralysis.

Slowpoke- The best switch-in to an opposing Poliwag after something else has been slept, being able to tank any hit ‘Wag can throw out (even at +2 Special) and then start setting up itself with Amnesia. Slowpoke is favored to win the 1v1 if the opponent stays in for whatever reason, being able to guaranteed 3HKO an opposing Poliwag with Psychic if both mons are at +6 Special, while Poliwag can 6HKO Slowpoke at best with Hydro Pump, and is unable to heal itself. If the opponent switches out once Slowpoke comes in, it can either setup and fire off a +2 Psychic at whatever comes in, or throw out a paralysis with Thunder Wave. Slowpoke also makes a pretty nice switch-in to Abra and Drowzee.

Pinsir- Just a strong, relatively fast physical attacker, plain and simple. While it’s not quite as fast as Scyther, it’s also not totally walled by opposing Rock-types, thanks to its access to Submission, which (unboosted) is a guaranteed 3HKO against Graveler and Onix, and is a guaranteed 2HKO against Omanyte. Slash is there as the most consistent unboosted damage option against most mons, with Hyper Beam for a little bit of extra damage on average, and a heck of a lot more if Pinsir manages to get off a Swords Dance.

Machamp- The best switch-in to an opposing Nidoqueen, if you don’t already have another mon in that can comfortably deal with it. Queen only has a 0.6% chance to 3HKO Machamp from full with Earthquake, allowing Machamp to come in on it somewhat comfortably and either bring it down or scare it out with the threat of being 2HKO’d (a 98.2% chance) by Machamp’s Earthquake. Submission is on Machamp for the guaranteed 2HKO on Lickitung, Rock Slide is for the hardest hit against Bug-types and Fearow, and Hyper Beam is your nuke.

 

[Gamer_Kennyttv]

Played my first match of this today, and it was pretty fun. I really think mons people are sleeping on a bit are Weezing and Electrode.
Electrode is the fastest thing in the game with no boosts, so naturally I find it a bit strange people haven't really been mentioning it. Paralysis spreading is very handy, and helps out the pokemon I mentioned prior, Weezing.
Weezing, on the surface level seems pretty bad, it's a poison type in a tier with a ground type being the best mon, and still having Psychics roaming every now and then. However, like every gen after until gen 5, Explosion is a REALLY good tool to have. The ability to pick and choose your places thanks to Electrode spreading para opens the doors to a lot of stuff.
I really think this tier is going to be a really good, fun tier to play, and I'm glad I've got the chance to play it so early in its lifespan

 

[phoopes]

Going to take a stab at a VR here, just solely based on vibes without any real descriptions here, post yours/feel free to discuss!

S:
Nidoqueen

A+:
Poliwag
Rapidash

A:
Abra
Arcanine
Graveler
Magmar
Omanyte
Seaking

B+:
Dragonair
Fearow
Machamp
Pinsir
Primeape
Vileplume

B:
Drowzee
Electrode
Flareon
Gastly
Sandslash
Scyther
Slowpoke
Staryu

(below here are 'mons I've seen very infrequently/not at all so it's completely vibes-based)

C:
Arbok
Butterfree
Diglett
Lickitung
Onix
Muk
Parasect
Wartortle
Weepinbell
Weezing

D/F:
Rest

A month later and I'll try to put a numerical ranking on this:

S
1. Nidoqueen -undisputed best mon in the tier

A+
2. Rapidash -best lead, and really strong coming out of the back as well
3. Seaking -can do a lot of different things well, been very surprised recently with just how good this thing is

A
4. Poliwag -fast sleep, hella frail, probably best in the lead spot
5. Omanyte -great wall to fire-types/normal attackers
6. Graveler -great wall to fire-types/normal attackers
7. Machamp - best anti-Nido mon in the game

A-
8. Fearow -strong and fast, can get some surprises off with mirror move as well

B+
9. Pinsir -strong and bulky attacker, can bind which is super nice against slower/para'd opponents
10. Vileplume -bulky double powders is very valuable
11. Sandslash -better coverage than Pinsir but I like bind's pivoting over QuakeSlide (also it's much slower)

B
12. Magmar -coverage > Arcanine's bulk
13. Arcanine -see above
14. Primeape -honestly a decent anti-Poliwag lead/does well the rest of the game too

B-
15. Abra -hella frail but hits hard from the special side
16. Slowpoke -hard to sweep with but you can manage it
17. Dragonair -see above

C
18. Scyther -like a combination of fearow and pinsir but somehow worse
19. Staryu -maybe I'm not using it right but I always find it incredibly easy to deal with
20. Electrode -should probably be better than it is but Ground-types stuff it
21. Drowzee -feel like it's a worse Vileplume in this tier

 

[gastlies]

Gonna drop my own personal VR. DISCLAIMER: I haven't actually used most C-Ranks yet, so those are just speculation, hence why I didn't order them.

Viability Rankings

Explanations

The face of this tier. I'm yet to drop it on a team. Insanely hard to switch in to and she just kills everything.

Almost always my lead. I rarely drop it as it's the perfect lead in this tier. On top of that, it's insanely fast and has access to fire spin.

Best fire check in the tier. Resists Fire moves and normal coverage, and doesn't really care about burns as much as the other rocks since it's a special attacker. Its main drawback though is not having a water resistance unlike its other sea siblings.
Not as good a fire check as Omanyte, but an amazing water type. Has the best stats out of all the waters, it's powerful, fast, and bulky.
I love this thing so much. I honestly think it's the second-most broken mon in the tier behind Nidoqueen. It's a fire type that isn't really checked by the standard fire checks (rocks, waters) thanks to its coverage. Rocks and waters still force it out, but Magmar can chip and finish them off easier than it's fellow fires.
I'm not the biggest fan of PoliSwag but I can't deny it's amazing potential. Hypnosis and Amnesia let it imitate it's older sibling in NU. The only problem is that all its stats except speed are awful, but the movepool does make up for it.
Sleepers are hard to come by in PU, and the two main options are Poliwag and Vileplume. Has a water resistance too which is nice, and the poison typing isn't even that bad since most psychics have been absorbed by the higher tiers.

Great check to normal types, but it's shakier against fires than Omanyte since it has to watch out for burns.
Most reliable Nidoqueen check automatically makes this good. Only problem is that fighting stab is kinda awful in this tier.
It's really good but I find it hard to justify using over Rapidash or Magmar. It does have really good bulk though.
Insanely powerful Normal Type. Once rock types are down this thing can easily win the game.
Definition of a glass cannon. Fires off brutal psychics but is either ohkoed or 2hkoed by almost every physical move in the game.
Great check to Nidoqueen w/o fire blast. Also has swords dance + bind to annoy opponents.

Has a ton of great resistances, can also spread para and use amnesia
Great defensive typing resisting both fire and water, also has twave and wrap.

Most underrated mon in the tier imo. Compared to graveler, it has bind and a higher speed stat. It even outspeeds Seaking of all things, meaning you can click bind on it and get a free switch into something that threatens it. Works great with glass cannons like Abra
Good Psychic check that also has sleep + para. Good substitute to plume on psychic-weak teams
Decent ground type, but hard to fit considering you typically have nidoqueen + rapidash + rock, which is already 2-3 mons weak to water on a team.
I haven't really seen much use for this honestly, but the speed is really nice.
1-2 ground types on every team really sucks but paired with poliwag and some smart double switching, this thing can be a menace.

Really frail, but a great check to Scyther and Pinsir, also has great coverage with tbolt, psychic, and mega drain.
Struggles to compete with other fires due to speed, but is the most powerful.
I honestly don't think the worse stats compared to seaking is worth recover + twave honestly, but instant recovery is still valuable.
Poor Scyther, this was so good before stuff like pinsir and rapidash dropped but now there are so many mons that counter/outclass it.

Gonna just rapid fire the C ranks, seem like almost-interchangeable all-out attackers, has double powder which could give it a niche, has glare + wrap, could be a decent source of sleep on some reams, is a fast and powerful attacker, hits like a train but is stopped dead by nidoqueen, and unlike trode is slow and doesn't have boom, is physically bulkier than seaking and has bslam but worse in every other way, might work alongside rapidash on fire spin teams, and has a great movepool as a normal type, but has bad stats

 

[RextheNoname]

Thoughts on the metagame

Bulky Waters

- Omanyte fills an amazing role as being both a 4x Fire resist and a Normal Resist. It's hard to pass up on slapping Omanyte onto a team with how hard of a wall it is to the fires of the tier. In addition, filling the slot of a normal resist to deal with the ever present Fearow, and the physical attacks from the aforementioned Fires. It should also be noted that this guy doesn't care about being burnt unlike Seaking, as the only physical move it runs is Body Slam. However, Omanyte has a few issues. For starters, it does lack a water resistance itself, meaning that other offensively oriented waters can deal a decent chunk to it with surf or Hydro Pump. In addition, having an HP stat of 30 means this sucker gets 3HKO'd by Seismic Toss. Overall though, Omanyte is One of the best bulky waters in RBY PU.

- Slowpoke lacks Omanyte's Normal Resistance and special, but is still able to put in plenty of work throughout the game. Slowpoke's normal resistance is traded for psychic typing, making it a reliable counter to the extremely threatening Abra. In addition, Slowpoke has access to the reliable Thunder Wave for scaring out the opposition's threats with paralysis, something no other bulky water can do. Slowpoke also carries decent physical bulk combined with a solid HP stat, allowing it to tank physical hits pretty well. If you get a free turn, slowpoke can setup with amnesia if needed, though this is pretty risky at times and should not be the sole strategy for slowpoke. While slowpoke doesn't have the raw bulk and resistances that Omanyte carries, it's still quite good at holding its own in RBY PU as a bulky water.

Offensive Waters

This could be argued as a bulky water, but I think it serves both roles well. Seaking is a jack of all trades, and arguably the best water in the tier. Seaking's solid bulk and offenses make it a force to be reckoned with once it gets on the field. What resistances it lacks are made up by the mix of physical and Special offense. If you're feeling particularly Feral, you can run Agility to become a menace to the opposition. Otherwise Double Edge has a few cases when you could use it over Agillity, but for the most part I like to stick with Agillity. Much like Omanyte, it's hard to not put Seaking on a team.

Staryu seems to get a bad wrap in RBY PU. A decent speed tier with good coverage seems like it would work wonders, but most of the time Staryu gets liquified from the lack of bulk to pull off Recover. However I've found Staryu to be best in the lead slot. For starters, you force opposing Rapidash to either switch out or rely on Fire Spin (and also Bslam Paralysis) to avoid getting paralyzed from Staryu's Thunder wave. In addition Staryu has a good lead matchup versus Primeape, Gastly and the less common Arcanine Leads. The only suboptimal Lead matchup this really has is versus Poliwag, where Staryu is out-sped while being threatened by hypnosis. Overall, if you'd like a more reliable lead, Staryu is the right choice.

Poliwag does exactly what Poliwhirl did in RBY NU. Amnesia after you sleep the opposing lead gets Poliwag up to surface able damage output. My main issue with Poliwag is how it loses to Rapidash lead most of the time. A Body Slam into Hyper Beam from Rapidash will take care of Poliwag just like that. And even if you do land a Hypnosis on Rapidash, there are multiple threats with access to Hyper beam that can easily revenge kill Poliwag (Arcanine, Magmar, Fearow). However Poliwag does have a solid matchup against a lot of the Leads slower than it, making it a pretty good, but unreliable lead.

Fires

Okay, I really don't have a lot to say about the Fires that hasn't been said already, but I'll talk about them because I went in depth for the waters.

In PU Magmar is finally able to truly spread its wings, er... Whatever the hell this duck abomination has. Magmar's not totally awful coverage allows it to be pretty solid in RBY PU. Magmar is able to 3HKO one of the strongest water type Walls in RBY PU, Omanyte. Seismic Toss or Submission are able to take care of Omanyte quickly. Psychic also allows for a consistent damage dealer when you don't feel like risking the Fire Blast. Magmar, however does have a lower speed sat than Arcanine or Rapidash meaning it can easily be revenge killed by faster threats. Nonetheless, Magmar's coverage makes it the best fire for dealing with the slower, bulkier waters of RBY PU.

Arcanine Is your average fire, but has traded a little bit of speed and access to fire spin for a lot of bulk. Arcanine can easily come in on the other fires in RBY PU and then toss out Body Slams like there's no tomorrow. Having a Reliable Wall for opposing Fires is very, very good, especially considering the bulky waters are susceptible to being pressured. Arcanine isn't just a wall, but also an offensive Fire. The inability to deal with the common Omanyte does make Arcanine seem less appealing when teambuilding. It has a place on offensively oriented teams that could use the fire resistance.

Grounds

- The viability of these two is pretty similar. Both are normal resists with great payout when used with correct timing. However Graveler is far easier to use with similar payout making it ideal, but the ability to get in major threats through Onix means it shouldn't be brushed away when teambuilding. The choice really comes down to how your team is built. Onix is especially good on teams that need to get frail offensive threats in. The choice simply depends on your team composition.

- Sandslash is criminally Underrated in RBY PU. STAB Earthquakes off of this thing will send anything not packing a hefty amount of bulk or a resistance to ground straight to the Pokemon Center. If Sandslash manages to get up a Swords dance with decent health, it's time to kiss at least one team member goodbye. That is, assuming Sandslash even needs to get a swords dance up considering how nuclear its Earthquakes already are. Sandslash's electric immunity coupled with good bulk allows it plenty of chances to get on the field and wreak havoc. The main reason Sandslash is passed up on is because it lacks the speed and access to bind that Pinsir has. Although I think the raw damage from STAB Earthquake that Sandslash offers makes it a worthy contender for the role of Swords dance user on a team.

- Okay, I'm not going to waste your time talking about how good this thing is. You already know Nidoqueen's sheer offensive power. It should be stated, Nidoqueen completely lacks reliable counters. Machamp seems solid until you realize Nidoqueen has access to the semi-consistently burning Fire Blast. Now I'm going to start by saying this is not my end all, be all opinion as I do still feel like my thoughts on the matter could change. Right now, I don't see Nidoqueen as being banworthy. Nidoqueen has no counters, but it does have plenty of counterplay. Numerous of the threats faster then it can easily finish off a heavily weakened Queen. In addition, getting Nidoqueen to work requires brainpower. To put it simply, If you don't treat Nidoqueen like Royalty then you don't get much out of using Nidoqueen. Once the tier is settled a little more I'll make a post about Queen going to more details on my thoughts.

other stuff

- This is a PSA for Abra users. DO NOT KEEP ABRA IN VERSUS ANYTHING FASTER THAN IT. Seriously, have some respect for this yellow cat. I keep seeing this guy getting chunked by hyper beams game after game. Okay, ranting aside Abra is pretty decent right now. It's got one hell of a special stat that will be the ruin of an unprepared team. Drowzee and Slowpoke are typically the easiest ways to deal with Abra, but as stated earlier anything faster than Abra threatens it with a OHKO. It's the definition of a glass cannon.

- If you manage to keep Electrode alive after your opponent's Nidoqueen is dead, you have absolutely hit the jack pot. The problem is, that Nidoqueen is usually alive until the end of the game. The most important part of using Electrode is that you keep it hidden like it's a ham and cheese sandwich when you walk past a group of hungry seagulls. That means that you only take it out if you're sure its a safe play. When you do end up taking a bite out of that ham and cheese sandwich, it's one of the best you ever had. this analogy sucks omg

- Primeape seems to be a pretty underrated Lead. It's got a solid matchup versus Poliwag and a not completely horrible matchup vs Rapidash and Staryu. Thunderbolt definitely helps it in a tier where there are plenty of bulky waters. Base 95 speed is nothing to scoff at aswell, allowing it to outspeed or speed tie plenty of other threats.

- Last and certainly least we have Lickitung. The lack of thunder wave significantly hinders Lickitung as a blob, and the terrible offenses mean Lickitung can hardly threaten most of the bulkier mons it wants to switch into. I don't really see why you would run this thing, and it honestly just feels like a worse machamp.

Now I did Skip over a few notable mons because I didn't have a lot to say about them. So below is a list of super short lightning fast summaries of mons that I haven't covered above. Some of these I didn't cover above because I had a feeling it would be redundant to gloat on and on about them.

Lightning Fast Thoughts

- Really fricking good, hands down the best lead and can be deadly late game. Very inconsistent though.
- The best sleeper in RBY PU with great bulk and has plenty of entry points to get onto the battlefield.
- Incredibly threatening when you're able to get him in. Probably the closest thing this tier has to a blob.
- Strong, fast and reliable. Not much else to say
- Strong, fast and reliable with access to pivoting. Unsurprisingly really good.
- God tier once you get an agillity up, but it getting agillity up can be a pain.
- Does pretty well on teams with an abra weakness, but otherwise just feels pretty sub-par.
- A really great lead that isn't super common for some reason. Give it a try if you haven't already
- The extra damage is nice, but it doesn't make up for the opportunity cost.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Random controversial RBY PU Takes:

Nidoqueen - Just undroppable on any viable team, thing is just a tank that beats everything 1v1 provided it doesn't get haxed. It technically loses to Machamp, but Machamp has such crippling weaknesses to a lot of the tier that it doesn't matter so long as you aren't forcing yourself into that matchup. For example, just going Fearow on EQ. Its coverage hits everything too.

/ Rapidash/Arcanine - Rapidash/Arcanine are both a case of Moltres, their Fire Blast power level combined with BST is just too strong for PU to the point Omanyte is viable. Arcanine for example can stay in on even a check like Graveler and just click Fire Blast if need be. The only solace is that Arcanine walls Rapidash and to an extent vice versa and therefore you can check them defensively with each other. Fire Spin is overrated and is only good for losing games, what makes Rapidash better than Arcanine is only Critical Hit Rate and outspeeding Fearow. I think as more exploration is done, Arcanine may end up being better than Rapidash. For now I put Rapidash 2nd.

Seaking - Yea just a general purpose budget Blastoise, can tank up Fire Blasts to an extent whilst dealing big damage. Trades well into Nidoqueen, Arcanine and Rapidash. Think Surf, Blizzard, Double Edge, Hyper Beam is a good set. DE -> Beam KOs Poliwag meaning you don't have to sack a fire if you position badly. Switches into Omanyte well and forces it out because otherwise you take too much damage on Omanyte and you can't deal with Fearow/Rapidash/Arcanine, very little can switch into Surf/Blizzard.

Omanyte - Pretty much good at switching into Fire Blast/Normal attacks and not much else. Fearow Crits in particular really get to this thing. I find it gets easily overwhelmed due to its relatively low HP and being the go to answer for everything. Being able to conserve HP on this is very important which is why I think Arcanine usage defensively is so important in case you are in a Fearow Matchup where it is too much for Omanyte to check three big hitters at the same time, especially if you get crit or burned which you will do. Very abusable if running rest due to its poor speed and survivability on hits it does not resist, even letting Vileplume in.

Fearow - Unadulterated Monster and most fun mon in the tier. A lot can trade with it effectively, but if it starts critting it is a nightmare to check since it forces three specific exploitable mons onto the field which are simultaneously relied on to check fires and are easy to switch into making it low drawback even if you were to stay in. Forcing Omanyte/Graveller/Onix in every time its on the field allows you to make big doubles into threats like Nidoqueen that seals games against a lot of PU players in practice because you are then put in a hole you can't recover from, this is especially the case when vs. liabilities like Vileplume, Poliwag and Machamp which hate and fear fearow getting on the field. It is quiet frail though which makes it not completely broke.

Poliwag - Overrated as a threat, if you don't hit first hypnosis through potential Body Slam Paralysis (which is like 55% chance vs. Arcanine/Rapidash Lead) you are playing 5v6 since Poliwag can't survive another hit unlike Poliwhirl. Best to bring it in in the later game vs. Nidoqueen or Seaking or Omanyte to get the sleep. Either ways its underwhelming cause the tier is full of faster mons that oneshot it unlike Poliwhirl who is like twice as tanky and is faster than most NU staples which is what makes it the threat it is.

Vileplume - It's alright, you can generally get it in a position to Sleep. Suffers from the fact it is slow, lets in Fire Blast users, lets in Fearow and can't switch into Blizzard well. It is just about Bulky enough to switch into one Blizzard. Kinda does nothing outside of statusing but sleep is broken so here we are. You cannot realistically trade two for one with this mon because Rapidash, Arcanine, Magmar and Fearow exist unless a misplay happens.

Magmar - A Fire that trades bulk for the illusion of coverage that for the most part doesn't matter. Psychic is a lie because you'd rather click Fire Blast for the Burn chance against Nidoqueen or Machamp. Submission is probably the best since it chips down Omanyte significantly which Rapidash/Arcanine cannot do but Omanyte is often overpressured anyways. It does have the highly coveted Confuse Ray and I look forward to that being utilised to troll opposing teams more.

Dragonair - An overlooked threat in PU which gets a decent chance of setup on the Agility, especially if you are willing to risk Body Slam Paralysis. Relatively little that is any good gets T-Wave which allows it to be a defensive pokemon not just an offensive sweeper if you want it. Agility Wrap Surf Tbolt is my favourite set, but you can only really bring it out late in the game otherwise it is pretty crap since Blizzard does too much to it, even Body Slam into Beam is good.

Graveler - It's a respectable Fearow resist and to a lesser degree a Fire Blast soak. It hates Crit and Burns from Fire Blast which is its major issue and it only really gets in by switching into Fire Blast or Fearow and yea 30% of being useless just by switching in. Again just like Golem in NU people are going to get an overinflated opinion of this because a lot of people will just Fire Spin with Rapidash to pivot out of Graveller and therefore allowing you to get a KO for free 30% of the time.

Machamp - Start to get into decent enough pokemon with crippling weaknesses here. Machamp's crippling weaknesses are being Fearow fodder, being unable to deal with Fire Blast effectively and being one of the few completely free avenues for Vileplume sleep. Fighting Stab is pretty useless in the tier. It has one good thing which is it can technically 1v1 Nidoqueen, though why you need to stay in when you can just switch out and then Machamp is chipped to the point it can't do the same thing again and Machamp has to play silly mindgames anyways since Fearows Crit drill peck OHKOs Machamp and it is EQ immune.

/ Slowpoke/Abra - Wasn't sure whether Slowpoke or Abra was better. Slowpoke is probably better just by virtue of being actually able to take a Hit. Abra is a supreme glass cannon that Rapidash, Arcanine and Fearow force out at full HP just because of hyper beam threat. Slowpoke is, even in its best case scenario sadly 1v1ed by Nidoqueen once its forced to rest. When you are losing to a ground/poison as a water psychic, things are grim. Abra has three good matchups against Nidoqueen, Omanyte and Machamp, even then those pokemon can theoretically stay in, tank hits if at full HP and not crit and Nidoqueen and Machamp both threaten the OHKO. I think both are matchup oriented picks, obviously Slowpoke also completely walls Abra which is something else it has going for it.

Electrode - Underrated. People think that because Ground types exist that Electrode is bad. Electrode forces in certain pokemon, which has always been its strength because the rest of the tier ain't dealing with crit tbolts if Nidoqueen or Graveller isn't around. You have to play aggressive with Electrode which is why it is this low. For example, doubling into your own Nidoqueen on whatever comes into Electrode, since you actually get an advantageous state since they cant trade hits on Nidoqueen for Nidoqueen because Electrode exists. I've always been of the opinion that the correct way to use Electrode is to reveal it and manipulate your opponent into telegraphed plays. Of course some matchups where multiple grounds exist its useless, but Onix and Graveller aren't very good and with Queen, Graveler, Rapidash, Omanyte, you are weak to Surf Blizzard combination most likely and opposing EQ. Mimic also very good in this tier.

Past here I've popped some random mons I've tried out in a vague order.

 

[RextheNoname]

Sleep in RBY PU

Sleep is a major part of every RBY Metagame, and it looks to remain that way in PU. However, the choice of sleepers in RBY PU is pitiful to say the least. Vileplume has solid bulk & access to dual powder, but can hardly do anything besides that due to its terrible offenses On the other hand you have Drowzee, who is offensively devastating, but struggles due to Hypnosis' bad accuracy and its bad physical bulk. The other, more niche options, are Gastly and Butterfree. Butterfree has decent speed and EQ immunity with the tradeoff of being a shaky switch in to any of the EQ users. Gastly, basically just banks on Fire Blast & Bind Misses. To make a long story short, you don't have much to pick from in RBY PU. Most people end up going with Plume and calling it a day, but Plume doesn't really do much outside of dual powder, and can struggle to break even the waters it comes in on. Otherwise, your options are incredibly inconsistent with the trade off of actually being decent outside of sleeping. So, why the hell even bother with sleep?

What I'm proposing is that sleepless teams actually have a place in the meta outside of a gimmick. Trading Vileplume's place on a team for Seaking, Staryu or even Slowpoke can be far better for a team than the sleep from Plume would've offered. This works because the waters in RBY PU both counter each other, and can check or counter the fires, meaning that trading either plume or an inconsistent sleep mon is worth it. Now I would like to address that Sleepless Triple Fire doesn't really work. However outside of that, running sleepless has shown to be worth the trade.

Slowpoke

This guy almost never gets used. I think its low usage boils down to people exclusively using it as an amnesia sweeper, which it really isn't. Slowpoke does have access to amnesia, but in most games it's better off not clicking it. Slowpoke is really a Jack of all trades, with emphasis on its master of none. For starters, slowpoke's decent physical bulk and Fire Resistance allows it to check the Fires Pretty Well. In addition, you can easily punish Rapidash for Missing Fire Spin with Slowpoke's access to Twave. That's not all! This guy is still a counter to Abra and can use amnesia if needed. Saying Slowpoke is "Only an Amnesia sweeper" doesn't do this guy justice at all.

Electrode

The few who think trode is good will call it "Underrated." Calling Trode this is Bitterly Ironic, and just so I don't have to repeat my reasoning again I'll explain it here.

Due to the heavy presence of Ground types in RBY PU (Each team having 1+) and the common presence of Vileplume almost every game, Trode will typically struggle to do much offensively in a game of RBY PU. Since Electrode forces out the fast fires via access to Twave and forces out the Bulky waters of the tier, electrode's niche ends up being centered around Bait. The nature of bait is both unreliable & incredibly punishing if unsuccessful. When you end up factoring Opportunity cost from picking Trode and the unreliable and incredibly punishing nature of bait, Trode ends up being simply not worth using if your plan is to win. Now outside of this Electrode does have access to a high crit rate explosion, which is actually not that bad if you ignore the aforementioned problems with trode.

Sandslash
Sandslash is just an offensive menace. It has the strongest Earthquake in the tier, and can tear apart teams with the click of a button. It's sort of a Nidoqueen-Mini with access to Swords Dance. Although, you won't be clicking SD that often. Not to mention, Sandslash's Decent Physical bulk allows it to have multiple entry points onto the field in a given match. While it does face competition from Pinsir as a bulky Physical Attacker, Sandslash's instantaneous High Damage output and lack of a Fire Weakness can make it worth picking over Pinsir.

Lead Arc Strat

Okay so this is almost purely speculative but Dedge might actually be worth running on Lead Arcanine. Vileplume's main issue is that it can't do anything versus a status'd fire, and Dedge can't para the opponent's fire. So, it might end up being better, maybe?

 

[gastlies]

After a month and a half, and a lot more experience with this tier. I've decided to update my VR.

VR #2

Notable Changes

RISES

4 -> 3
Not gonna cover omanyte dropping to 4, because that's more of a matter of seaking being good rather than omanyte being bad. Seaking has shown itself to be a destructive force in the tier, pretty much forcing you to run a water resist to check it. Seaking also has a decent amount of defensive utility too, being able to check the fires somewhat decently. At some point, I could see Seaking being S- alongisde Rapidash.

11 -> 5
Fearow's offensive potential is incredible. I was pretty hard on it for my first VR due to how it was walled to the rocks, but I still stand by what I said earlier about how " Once rock types are down this thing can easily win the game." This is still true, so if you build around removing the rocks as quickly as possible, you can unlock fearow's destructive potential. Mirror move also means that Fearow can scare out Nidoqueen with her own blizzard, which is impressive.

10 -> 6
I was hesistant to hop on the Arcanine train at first, but I'm glad I did! Its bulk is so good compared to Magmar. As an anti-lead, it can either toxic rapidash to put its fire spin antics on a timer, or try to paralyze it with body slam. The bulk is also great at surviving hits that its main competition, Magmar, simply can't handle.

22 -> 17
Recover is great, and Staryu has incredible coverage. Suffers from some 4mss though. Thunderbolt for waters, Blizzard for Plume and Queen, Surf for power and fires, Psychic for machamp. However, Staryu is great against the top threats of OU. It does suffer from pretty bad stats compared to seaking though, which is why it's not higher.

DROPS

5 -> 8
Magmar's Coverage is a lot less appealing than it seemed before. The less physical bulk compared to Arcanine also matters a lot more, since the fires are expected to take body slams from other fires.

6 -> 14
Poliwag's initial hype has died down now that people see how flawed of a pokemon it is. Its stats are just... awful, and hypnosis + amnesia doesn't really make up for these terrible stats.

8 -> 11
Graveler is still terrified of being burned, unlike omanyte, and the electric immunity graveler offers isn't important. As water types continue to rise to check fires, Graveler will keep falling.

16 -> 22
Same reasoning as Graveler, except Graveler can still be used because of its power. Onix lacks such power, and bind is too risky to use consistently.

 

[Volk]

Hi all. I haven't been as active with this tier as I had hoped, but it seems like it is seeing a fair amount of play. I wanted to announce that we now have a Preliminary Viability Rankings! Now, I do want to stress that this is still a very young tier and almost all gameplay has been purely friendlies. There is a lot more room for development. Frankly, I would think of this list as less of a VR and more a road map of what's popular in the tier right now. This list could change at any moment; don't take it as fact.

Regardless, I want to thank RextheNoname for putting this VR together. He and three other players (Shellnuts, phoopes, and Gastlies) voted to create this list. I'm going to publish the results here and I may move them into the OP. The results are below and the raw data can be found here (note that this is a Google Sheet, so be careful if you are signed in with a personal email). There are no sub-ranks and the Pokemon are ranked alphabetically within each tier. Thanks for your contributions!

S Rank
Nidoqueen
Rapidash

A Rank
Arcanine
Fearow
Magmar
Omanyte
Pinsir
Seaking
Vileplume

B Rank
Abra
Dragonair
Drowzee
Electrode
Graveler
Machamp
Poliwag
Sandslash
Slowpoke
Staryu

C Rank
Gastly
Onix
Primeape
Scyther

D Rank
Butterfree
Flareon
Muk
Parasect
Weepinbell


I also want to soft announce that there may be an RBY PU Tournament in the future. The RBY Tournament Schedule is extremely busy right now, but once the RBY Grand Slam starts to wrap up, we'll see what we can do. I personally want to try to make an RBYOMPL or some kind of side event for RBYPL that may include PU, should it get popular enough. I plan to make another post about that event in the near future to gauge the popularity of the idea and different tiers. If either or both of these tournaments occur, you can expect to see a new VR with more voters and hopefully higher accuracy. Cheers!

 

[fruityikea]

this looks super interesting so far. is there a discord or something similar for it? i'd love to be able to play this somewhat regularly with other people, testing out teams and movesets and whatnot. in-development metagames are always really interesting.