OU RBY OU Viability Rankings

[emma]

incredible art by Kolohe
check our their art thread here!​

Welcome to the RBY OU Viability Rankings! As you can guess, in this thread we aim to rank the viability of all relevant Pokemon in the RBY OU Metagame. All Pokemon are ranked in order of viability, even in their own subranks. The VR will be updated once a year, once Smogon Premier League ends, where everyone will be encouraged to post their new yearly personal VR. From there, we will use the Quantitative Tiering in Viability Rankings system to update the VR. You can find the old Viability Rankings thread as well as the '19/'20/'21/'22/'23 updates below.

2013 - 2016 Thread
2016 - 2020 Thread
2019 Update
2020 Update
2021 Update
2022 Update
2023 Update
2024 Update

S Rank:

1. Tauros
2. Snorlax

A Rank:

3. Chansey
4. Starmie
5. Exeggutor

B1 Rank:

6. Alakazam
7. Zapdos
8. Rhydon

B2 Rank:

9. Gengar
10. Jynx
11. Cloyster

C1 Rank:

12. Jolteon
13. Slowbro
14. Victreebel

RBY OU / UU Cutoff

C2 Rank:

Dragonite
Articuno
Lapras
Moltres
Persian

D Rank:

Hypno
Porygon
Golem
Venusaur
Sandslash
Kangaskhan
Poliwrath

E Rank:

Kingler
Kabutops
Clefable
Dodrio
Raichu
Gyarados
Machamp
Dugtrio
Pinsir
Golduck
Flareon
Aerodactyl

VR Snapshot

S:
A:
B1:
B2:
C1:
C2:
D:
E:

 

[Hipmonlee]

Ok here's my 2021 list. No time for explanations, you will just have to accept it as gospel:

Tauros

Chansey

Snorlax

Exeggutor

Starmie

Alakazam

Rhydon

Zapdos

Jynx

Jolteon

Cloyster

Gengar

Slowbro

Victreebel

Lapras

Golem

Hypno

Dragonite

Persian

Articuno

Kabutops

Kangaskhan

Sandslash

Poliwrath

Machamp

Porygon

Kingler

Clefable

Moltres

Pinsir

Tentacruel

Dodrio

Golduck

Primeape

Raichu

Omastar

Dugtrio

Raticate

Venusaur

Charizard

Tangela

Nidoqueen

Nidoking

Muk

Weezing

Gyarados

Electrode

Ninetales

Rapidash

Flareon

Arcanine

Hitmonlee

Arbok

The cutoff between "I would use this in a game where I was legitimately trying" and "I am just flexing now" is Clefable/Moltres. I really can't come up with a legitimate reason to ever use Moltres over Lapras, Cloyster and Articuno. I was being lazy, so I just ranked the same mons as last year... I wonder if Magneton might be next on my list?

 

[Amaranth]

I'm sure I'll spend some time thinking about this when the survey comes around so I'll get the thinking done now and post my own thoughts, sure

My list (with explanations)

S+
1. Tauros
2. Snorlax

I've been a long time supporter of 1. Snorlax 2. Tauros but I think I'm changing my mind. With increased Gengar popularity forcing more and more Laxes into running EQ its control over games is slipping away slightly, to the point where I'm comfortable giving the point to the bull. I also think if you're ever dropping Tauros you are absolutely on shrooms, whereas if you're dropping Snorlax maybe you're only very drunk and I think you could win real games running Laxless

S
3. Chansey

Far and away the most replaceable of the normals, it's stupid powerful for 95% of teams but there are some offenses that don't appreciate its passivity and genuinely have a reason to drop Chansey sometimes.

A+
4. Starmie

The best Psychic in the game and it's not particularly close, >75% usage speaks for itself. Fast, good vs Tauros, flexible, can wake on monoice Chansey, doesn't take shit from no leads (only real losing match ups are Jolteon and Chansey - Alakazam wins in theory but in practice it doesn't want to twave you so not really), just better than the alternatives in very many situations.

A
5. Exeggutor
6. Alakazam

The two other great Psychics. I think meta shifts have been helping back Zam a ton while making Eggy's life a little difficult, but I still think Eggy is far and away the better pokemon. Zam is a nice lategame option into those CloyJolt teams but it can be very easy to abuse with both Zapdos and Rhydon; Eggy still ruins a lot of Jynx teams though, and I think people overstate how difficult it is for it to land sleep. Eggy is also just way higher potential with the ability to threaten sleep plus explosion, I don't think it will ever not be higher than Zam in my mind, especially as Zam's lead niche has been getting smaller and smaller due to the inability to twave in most scenarios

B+
7. Zapdos
8. Rhydon

Don't care for your hypermodern takes one bit, these two are still the next best. Zapdos wins endgames like no other pokemon (arguably not even Tauros) and you can outplay all of his negative match ups because it's a very forcing pokemon which makes your opponent do predictable things. It's actually just unfair how good this mon is in 2/3rds of games, and in the last 1/3rd it'll be stuck in the back for a while but if you tech your team properly and play accordingly those games are winnable too.
Rhydon on the other hand definitely has a rougher time now that twaving everything is getting more difficult, but my god the things this mon does to Gengar teams are not pretty. The match up into Electrics is as good as ever and the ability to break through both Lax and Chansey after only minimal setup cannot be understated. Insanely powerful now that 50% of teams are Eggyless, even if setting it up has become slightly more challenging.

B
9. Jynx
10. Cloyster
11. Gengar
12. Jolteon

Jynx is spectacular into monoice Chansey and the ability to win games on turn 2 is just too scarring for me to rank it any lower than this. I might be overrating it slightly and it definitely feels a bit weaker than either Eggy or Sing Chansey but it's still a higher class than the mons below.

CloyJolt are two mons that I frankly don't think are very viable if you're not running them together. I can accept CloyZam or Cloy in boomspam offense though, and its general utility is a lot more relevant in most games, so I'm ranking it higher, but it's still too weak into Mie/Chans/Zam for me to love it very much and it spends half its turns resting anyway. Also if a team really needs to beat it it just tosses in Tbolt Bull with relatively low opportunity cost and just kinda wins lol. Jolteon, however, is even worse; Body Slam and Thunder Wave both force it into passivity and obviously Rhydon steamrolls you. The match up into Starmie and Chansey is nice but it's not much of an aggressive breaker either; the ability to switchback offensively into Starmie is pretty unique and valuable but everything else about this mon is yucky.

Gengar is huge cringe but as long as people keep greeding with their Lax sets (so until the heat death of the universe) it will stay alive in the metagame. People have learned to see the Gar + Sing Chansey tricks coming by now so it's definitely not as good as it was in 2020, there was a period where I probably had 50% Gar usage around CPL IV / Global Champs because no one knew what to do against it lol. Still very viable and IMO midgar is very underexplored in the present meta. The ability to remove enemy lax from having any function is really quite good, and the upsides with this mon are ridiculous if you can get your boom on enemy Chansey. Hard to compare to Cloy and Jolt since they're so vastly different but I think I'm happy with saying that all three are cringe but Cloy is the least cringe and Jolteon is the most cringe

C
13. Slowbro
14. Articuno
15. Lapras
16. Moltres

These mons still have genuine niches here and there. Slowbro in particular is loving life in a world where Eggy has 50% usage, though I think it was definitely brought too much last SPL for no reason lol. But in general the fact that everyone is scrambling to put one of your mons to sleep before even thinking of Thunder Wave is good for Slowbro because it means that his sweeps can't be stopped by sleep moves anymore. It still has that massive Thunderbolt problem though. You'd think he would hate playing in a Jolteon meta but actually Slowbro is only OHKOd by a crit Tbolt while Jolteon is OHKOd every time by Thunder Wave, so it's fine. Slowbro would hate a Zapdos meta far more. Super good into sleepsacked Starmies and monobeam Chanseys too.

Articuno feasts on Eggy+Don which is nice, but it's an endgame pokemon that is definitely hard to properly set up. IF you can get the Starmies and Cloys and Chanseys out the way this mon is busted, but the fact that what your opponent does with them isn't always in your hands can suck pretty bad. CloyJolt is horrible for it in general. A bit of a match up fish, but I don't dislike it.

Lapras is the Golem to Articuno's Rhydon. On a surface level they do similar things and Lapras's movepool should just make it better, but Articuno just hits extra hard and gets some crucial rolls - Articuno's Blizzard always 2HKOs Tauros while Lapras only does so 28% of the time, most importantly. Thunderbolt into Starmie doesn't matter a lot because Starmie is always sleeping and if it's not sleeping it can twave+recover stall you because Tbolt is just short of actually hitting 50%, much like Golem's EQ. Thunderbolt into Cloyster does matter a little bit in that it lets the inevitable Jolteon switch in for free instead. Maybe if your Blizzard was hitting a tiny bit harder this wouldn't be so bad. Oh and Sing just never lands, the last time a Lapras has ever put something to sleep was probably in 2018. To Lapras's credit walling monoice is cute, but we're already entering territory where I'd rather just sleepsack this than actually try to get anything out of it in most scenarios.

Moltres is Articuno where you take an OHKO on Rhydon and turn it into a 4HKO for the upside of burn chance and fire spin. It honestly still has a decent niche over him in that he's not as bad into Cloyster, but everything about it is just kinda cringe. 85 acc instead of 90, Fire Spin being 75 acc while on a pokemon that gets OHKOd by Thunder Wave, 8 PP with no ability to run a backup fire move (and it's not because it doesn't fit, he literally does not learn flamethrower in gen 1), the burn chance still being a shot in the dark. It's a reasonable pokemon to use though.

C-
17. Victreebel
18. Golem

Gengar rising to nearly 15% usage + people saving their fast mons from Thunder Waves has really returned Victreebel to the cringe lord status it always held. It's a match up fish that still needs to hits its Sleeps and Wraps to actually win the one match up it's supposed to fish. Don't see this coming back any time soon, it's too wack to consistently do anything in the early-mid stages and in the lategame there are both better sleepers and better wrappers to run. I think RBY will look back on their Victreebel phase the same way one might look back on their teen emo phase, we understand why we did it but we're ashamed it ever happened and have grown up to be better people since

Golem, however cringe it is, is pretty underrated. ZERO SPL uses is somewhat criminal for a mon that lures and booms Starmie with some amount of consistency. I think if someone were to sit down and really try to make it work they'd come up with something pretty good. I built a team around Golem in an earlier metagame and it won real games, I'm positive it could happen again even if yeah Cloyster is horrible to play against with this. It isn't even guaranteed to OHKO Jolteon with EQ, that's how cringe this mon is. Should be a decent boom bot though

D
19. Porygon
20. Persian
21. Dragonite
22. Sandslash
23. Hypno

If you brought any of these mons to a game I would not immediately question whether you are even trying to win. They are legitimate even if their use cases are very very narrow.

E
24. Poliwrath
25. Omastar
26. Flareon
27. Kingler
28. Kabutops
29. Dodrio

If you brought any of these to a game I would immediately think that you're not actually trying to win. But these mons are good enough that you might still win if you play well and/or get lucky.

Anything not on this list is a form of self harm. If you feel the need to bring anything else to a serious game please talk to a loved one.

 

[mikmer]

S tier:
The staples of RBY, they should be on every team.
1

Tauros
2

Snorlax
3

Chansey

A tier:
The best of the rest, they are very consistent in every game.
4

Starmie
5

Exeggutor
6

Alakazam

B+ tier:
The biggest threats, in the right matchup they are devastating.
7

Zapdos
8

Rhydon

B- tier:
The best team players, they are solid but unexciting.
9

Jynx
10

Cloyster
11

Jolteon
12

Gengar

C tier:
The surprise picks, they can do good things but they are inconsistent.
13

Slowbro
14

Victreebel
15

Lapras

D tier:
The fringe picks, from time to time you will lose a ladder game to them.
16

Golem
17

Persian
18

Dragonite
19

Articuno
20

Sandlash
21

Porygon

 

[Prof_J]

Posting thoughts. Some of it may sound super obvious but sometimes I forget new players read these threads too.

S:
Tauros
Snorlax
Chansey
Tauros should always be #1. It's the single luckiest game piece and easily the most threatening. There is a good reason a lot of people save it to the end: nothing can clean like it can, and a game is never truly over if you still have a healthy Tauros. Lax is an easy #2, being a great offensive and defensive game piece. It's something you should have on nearly every team...but there are a small handful of laxless teams that are very good and do pretty well without hoping to get lucky. Tauros should never go anywhere if you're serious about winning.
Chansey is a terrific special wall and status spreader, very easy addition and moveset can be adjusted for a team’s needs. If not running Chansey you can still compensate by having a few high special mons that spread para.

A:
Starmie
Exeggutor
Alakazam
Alright, I give: Starmie is the 4th best Pokemon in the tier. It's not just the usage, but reasons behind the usage. It's a very flexible game piece that can be a lead, a mid mon that takes Eggy's place, or a threatening finisher. It does all of those well in addition to having a great crit rate and instant recovery.
Eggy absolutely should be next, it fills a lot of roles in one slot, is a reliable sleeper, and for most teams it's the best means of covering the Rhydon matchup.
Then Zam next just makes sense. Being a fast Psychic will always be good in RBY. It's also a very easy to use lead and you know exactly how to play it. Being able to get past Chansey is also a huge bonus. I can't rank it above the other A's because Starmie is better and Eggy I end up putting on more teams because a lot of teams need all of the things it can do.

A-:
Zapdos
At this point I feel like I should have quoted at least one other person's post to save time...but I guess top 10 is bound to look very similar across the board. It took a while, but people are starting to realize that the bird is the word. A lot of popular RBY teams being copied and used in tours are very weak to Zapdos, and you win a lot of games just by having it. Despite that, its usage hasn't been as high I thought it would be over the last year. Judging by other posts, that may change soon. It is B+ at worst.

B+:
Rhydon
Jynx
Rhydon I thought I would rank below Jynx, but it should be in the same upper B tier as Zapdos. Why? It’s useful in the mid and late game, and in a good handful of matchups, it can come in and demolish what is left. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point I truly feel that Jynx is worthy of a place above. Which brings me to Jynx.
Jynx leads are the easiest way to get an early game sleep, and that's a big deal. However, that's about the only role it can do. As good as it is, it often stops being an active participant in the fight after the first 5 turns.

B:
Jolteon
Cloyster
Jolteon should never be ranked too far away from Zap, since they threaten a lot of the same teams and are both useful for similar reasons. It is a lot less consistent, though. I agree with Amaranth that it has to be ranked close to Cloyster because trapping moves are the easiest way to get it in the game when you need it. A CloyJolt build is easier to use and easier to get value out of Jolteon more often than say, something like MieJolt.
Cloyster is absolutely B material, but I don't think top 10-worthy. It is a great check to just about any lax set while also having a trapping move, boom, and STAB Blizzard. But it's flaws also become apparent all too often: getting para'd forces it into a tough spot where it needs to hope to move and get a Rest off (or boom if you think that's a good idea, but it's most often Rest). A lot of team that have Cloyster over Eggy now have worse matchups against Eggy and Rhydon with it incapacitated, and if it has to keep switching into Body Slams that's bound to happen. Clamp isn't terribly accurate and that can make or break a game. The rise of Starmie doesn't help either.

B-:
Gengar
It may seem dumb to have a minus tier just for one mon, but I really feel that Gengar is further behind the other Bs enough to do it. It is great under the right matchups, but speed tieing with Tauros and being a Poison type in OU will always hold it back. It is good but not very consistent from game-to-game.

C:
Slowbro
Lapras
These really are the bottom 3 of the OU-ranked mons and I don't see too much room for debate. Slowbro is either a destroyer, or it gets utterly destroyed. I like it from time to time, but it relies too much on not getting screwed over to work, more so than a lot of other mons.
Lapras is a rare sight now, but it is absolutely better against a wider variety of teams than Vic.
EDIT: Vic used to be here, see below.

C-:
Articuno
Victreebel
Vic is around for match up-fishing and wrap-centric teams...even then it's still pretty lame. It will be a let down more often than not since people don't really want to use slow teams as much anymore, nevermind that being a Poison-type is still a considerable drawback.
Articuno is enough of a threat to keep its head just above D-Rank. Few things can 100% safely switch into STAB Blizzard and with 24 PP of Ice moves, it has a good chance to score a freeze. It is the cutoff of what I would use in OU if I was tryharding.
EDIT (again): Articuno is actually better than Vic imo. I finished looking over my team builder and tour replays and realized I get way more use out of the ice bird. I would feel much safer relying on it to win with.

D:
No explanations here because I haven't use all of these enough to give a big spiel. More specifically, I've used the first three a little bit each and none at all for Hypno + Porygon. But for the latter two, playing against them and seeing them in action convinces me they are definitely a part of the meta that should be tiered and discussed more.
Golem
Dragonite
Persian
Hypno
Porygon

E:
These mons are bad but worth ranking. Unlike the other tiers/letter grades, ordering doesn't matter to me down here. I guess you could nitpick if you really wanted to. Seeing others mention Kang first makes me feel a bit less special now.
Kingler
Pinsir
Poliwrath
Kangaskhan

 

[Plague von Karma]

Seems it's tier list season and I'm down for some debates, so here's mine. s/o to zalarye for the funny Pokemon Green Tiermaker thing

I'll go over each tier one by one.

S Rank
I think who's better than the other is extremely redundant since you're running them all anyway, but I'll give my reasoning anyway.

Tauros - I still think Tauros is the best of the lot, and that those saying otherwise are just that used to what it does. As Prof_J said, the very fact we keep it back the way we do says a lot about what it does for a game. Few Pokemon in the history of the series, let alone RBY, can clean like Tauros does. You cannot play this game without a revenge killer, Tauros does it the best, and that's why we have it here. I don't see the argument that it relies too much on support when it plays just like any other fast Normal-type attacker that's OHKOed by Thunder Wave. In that case, we may as well take Persian and Dodrio off the list entirely and watch Tauros stonks drop 90%. It's the king, treat it like one.

The midgame monsters, Snorlax firmly sits at #2, Chansey at #3. Chansey is below Snorlax for being just a bit more droppable than our fat bear on offensive teams, which automatically puts it below the other two in my opinion. These are your status quo takes, so I'm not dwelling on them.

Starmie in A+
I'm with Amaranth in that Starmie just beats too many Pokemon to not be here. It finds a spot on teams so easily and you can get so much mileage out of it. With how Starmie's playstyle has changed over time and how the metagame has shifted, it's only been getting better. I don't see how this can change any time soon. It really just does it all and can be fine-tuned for teams quite nicely, and its ridiculous usage demonstrates that.

A Rank
Not much is changing here except Exeggutor continues its trip down the ranks. It's not as splashable as Starmie and feels more like Alakazam at this point, which is why it's here. It's the best sleeper by a long shot that can do a few more things, but not a mandatory one. Sometimes you'll just sleep Chansey and go head empty clicking 6 Psychics in a row and somehow not getting bonked on the head for it. As for Alakazam's placement, basically just the status quo, so I won't dwell on it.

B+ Rank
I considered putting Jynx here but tbh it's only really good for those first 2-3 turns and that's it, I hate it here lmfao

Zapdos endgames are hell on earth, and the doomsday prophecising about MieDon MUs doesn't hold water to me when that's basically what the rest of your team is for. Sometimes this mon crits my Chansey with Drill Peck twice in a row and it makes me sad. The amount of influence Zapdos can have on a game is kind of crazy really, very good mon and I don't know why some people doubt it.

As for Rhydon uhh

uhhh

there you go

B Rank
Jynx is a really nice sleep lead but it often just kinda sits in the back switching in on sleep/para for the rest of the game afterwards, feels kinda awkward. I do think mid-level players are playing it a bit wrong though, Rest is a lot better than it looks and I'd argue it's a lock on its set. I don't know why some people have been picking up Counter on Jynx, its HP just isn't good enough for the payoff. Maybe if people start leading Dodrio...but don't do that. I don't know if it's top of B worthy or not - I'm a bit shaky on that - every Pokemon here is really close. I think it's being used and winning consistently enough for it to be here though.

Jolteon is sick. I like teambuilding with it in the lead slot right now since everyone is on that LeadMie juice, and it wins against it pretty consistently. Oftentimes it'll force in an early-game Rhydon and that's ass for them. Similar to what Amaranth said about Zapdos, Jolteon forces very predictable play - kind of a 50/50 really - and you can play to that very nicely. To be honest I think people just autopilot Rhydon into the electrics too much. As for the "BackJolt" standard stuff, not much to say that hasn't been said for the past couple of years. It's just plain good, I think it's very viable on its own. Also, stop using Pin Missile on your LeadJolts...it's not good, it's less consistent than my thought process.

Cloyster isn't far behind here, I'd argue it's equal with Jolteon. It's your physical mon check, it's your Clamp pivot, it explodes on things, you know the drill. I think it's a bit worse than Jolteon for the fact it spends half its life on its fat ass sleeping because you switched it into Body Slam trying to be slick. The core issue here is that what you want to do with Cloyster is often what gets it killed or forced into Rest. Maybe I'm just not playing it right.

Gengar should either be here or just below Jynx, again, these are all of a very similar power level. I think Gengar's lead inconsistency is the biggest issue here...sometimes you just miss the Hypnosis, get killed, and now you're on the backfoot. With Blizz/Psy Mie being extremely common as a lead, this is a pressing issue, and I don't like it. The rise in Thunderbolt Tauros usage to deal with Cloyster is quite a good boon for it though since it does VERY well against EQless Tauros. Not sure if that's enough for me to rise it though.

B- Rank
Slowbro is just kinda broken sometimes, but when it isn't, it's dogwater. Not much else to say here, you win or you don't. I think the drop in Exeggutor usage has been very good for it though since it gets a little more room to breathe and fewer booms to worry about.

Lapras is juuuust barely OU for me. It has its anti-Tauros capabilities, Sing is hilarious, and that's about it. Not much else to say about it.

So for Articuno, I think the success of the Gar+Birds team since 2020 has shown that Articuno deserves a place here, which in turn means rising it to OU. It wins about as much as Lapras and Slowbro do, and is far more consistent than Victreebel has been for ages, and saying otherwise is just wrong. Sometimes it really just wins, even with Starmie's chokehold over the lower-ranked Pokemon. I don't know why people rank it as low as they do when it matchup fishes about as much as these Pokemon. I can see the argument against it, but I'm putting it here.

C Rank ("Bodied by Starmie Rank")
Just drop Victreebel already, holy shit. This thing screams for help from the bowels of its decaying corpse, it chokes so often. It's definitely the best "UU" Pokemon, but that's it. Gengar is rising, Starmie is rising, Exeggutor is dropping, the metagame shifts have been brutal for our pitcher plant friend. I haven't seen a successful Victreebel endgame in ages either, the SD set is just gone, and these factors don't help its case for me either.

Persian is a cool mon, using it with Tauros feels very exhilarating at times and I enjoy it very much. Being able to take out Reflect Chansey from like half HP is really funny and there's a lot of cool little tech choices you can do with it. You can even fish for a Slash 3HKO or crit Body Slam on Snorlax if you want to. However, I don't think it's that great with the gigantic Starmie usage right now, it kinda folds to that and so does like most of this rank.

Dragonite does a lot of stuff and I frankly don't use it enough at all so it's gonna sit here and I hope you all agree with me.

Moltres clicks Fire Blast, burns Starmie or Chansey by accident, and then the player scratches their head wondering why it happened. You're not using it right; like Zapdos, you force your opponent into doing predictable plays and play accordingly. It's a Pokemon you're really forced to respect. However, this doesn't mean it's that great, because it isn't, the fact you're doing all this just to not have Moltres cause you to lose the game is telling. I think this is my most sus placement on this VR, I think it could even drop to D if the metagame keeps telling it to go back to NU where it belongs.

Porygon is here because the gradual decrease in AmneLax usage is really helping it. I'm seeing way more Reflect/Phys Laxes these days and Porygon is consistently dabbing on them. I think it's going to gradually increase in usage going forward, but its specific nature puts it below Moltres for me. I could absolutely be wrong, though, this thing is better than some people think. Maybe we need to experiment more.

Golem is outclassed by Rhydon in almost every way and its 0% SPL usage this usage tells us that. To use it, you need to think about why your team isn't better off with BoomLax or Exeggutor instead, and that obligatory decision will take it off most of your teams. Even then, its main boom target, Chansey, is likely gonna go "MR PRESIDENT GET DOWN" with the Reflect and now it's gonna heal cus you can't KO it afterwards.

D Rank
Mainly putting Hypno here for the status quo, it's definitely the best out of the lot here, kind of blending Jynx and Chansey's roles a bit. I think it's better than people give it credit for.

Kingler is the Cringe Crab that'll fling +2 HBs at you until you lose once every ten games. Using it is honestly the most fun I have playing RBY and it's got a lot of cool team comps you can put it in. If you wanna take it for a spin, Gar+Zap+King is really fun, I did an RMT here. I know Sceptross argued that Kabutops is better but honestly seeing Chansey die from full is just too much of a dopamine release for me to think otherwise. Also, Crabhammer is a thing that exists.

Kabutops is about equal with Cringe Crab, I've heard of Sceptross and Hipmonlee doing some really cool stuff with it on the ladder, and after trying it myself in an effort to sate my SD+HB addiction, I am definitely a fan. It's a nice Normal/Ice resist which gives it far more points of entry than Cringe Crab, but its power decrease is a bit nasty; notably, you lose out on the Starmie OHKO. You're also losing Crabhammer which is why Gengar can't just constantly switch in on Cringe Crab. The Speed increase doesn't do much in practice either, if anything you'll just crit more often with further hurts your Attack decrease. This puts it firmly below.

Sandslash schmixed me on the ladder at one point and I saw it in I think RBYPL or SPL one time too? Not much to say as I haven't tried to yet, I will get round to it eventually and make a post though. It feels like it should be here.

I've got some fairly extensive experience with Gyarados and did an RMT here showing what it can do. This thing feels and plays like a D Rank, being able to 3HKO Tauros and even Snorlax is no joke. It has a decent niche over Starmie in its Ground immunity and ability to more consistently put down Rhydon, especially when used alongside Zapdos or Jolteon; see the forcing to do predictable plays thing and why I think people autopilot with Rhydon too much. Hell, it's a mixed attacker that can handle Cloyster too, it can enable your physical attackers nicely and can even work alongside Rhydon itself, it's just all-around really fun.

Kangaskhan is really fun alongside Tauros but there's not too much of a reason to use it over Persian. You'd think the Counter niche is good but Snorlax and Tauros - what you're aiming for - have amazing ways to check for it: Snorlax has Earthquake and Ice Beam, Tauros has Blizzard, the latter of which actually deals more than Body Slam and thus invalidates what you want to do. As a result, it's gonna be using Surf or something instead, which makes it just another Tauros. So...why not Persian? I dunno man, you may wanna drop this further. I think it's overstayed its welcome.

E Rank
Pinsir deserves to be at the top of E, though my SD+HB addiction may be showing here. I really like the Ground resist and Bind which makes it chokehold teams really well late-game, a very different approach to the other drugs in this section. It OHKOes about as much as Kingler does though it does miss out on Starmie, which sucks because otherwise it'd probably be tied. The Gengar usage uptick is quite bad for it though, which is the main thing keeping me from putting it with Kangaskhan. I will put an RMT up about this Pokemon soon as part of my quest to record actual teams for these lower-ranked mons. People just don't know enough about them and the info isn't very widely available outside of old PP/GGFan analyses.

Venusaur is a really fun alternative to Exeggutor sometimes and can mess up paralyzed Starmie sometimes, but that's about it. There's not much reason to use it over Victreebel, as Lusch definitively explained on Pokemon Perfect back in the day (can't find the post though...). The main thing that gets it by is some niche calcs: it's much, much bulkier than Victreebel.

The rest of these are status-quo positions, though I've tried Flareon and Machamp and really, really hated them.

Conclusion
So that's my VR! There are some hot takes in here, and I think my Articuno position is a bit controversial, but I hope I explained everything sufficiently for you!

 

[EB0LA]

Explanation

No explanations needed.

 

[kjdaas]

Now SPL has ended and RBY classic is months away, I think this is a good time to update the VRs before RBY Cup starts. Some of you already started posting your rankings yourself, so that is good sign! When using the tiermaker tool, please sort the mons within the same rank from best to worse from left to right!

Like last time, I want to make it publically known that we are working on a VR update so that people who might want to contribute, can also join in. Because the idea and method were taken from McMeghan and vapicuno, I'll use this quote from Roro to explain the method:

I want every "relevant" RBY players to PM me their own ranking. I will then make an average of everyone's ranking to reach the final result (similarly to the SPL pre-season power rankings and what was done here last time). I plan to disclose the full results and show who voted what exactly (unless they don't want to be revealed). I will also probably discount every pokemon's highest and lowest individual ranking to avoid outliers.

I want you guys to give this post a quick read, and if you care about this thing, to send me YOUR own viability ranking by PM on here or on discord (kjdaas#5961). Please also mention if you'd like your ranking to be associated with your name or not. Also, if you know anyone you'd consider as qualified enough to send their take on the matter, let them know and tell them to PM me with their ranking too.

The only thing I'll do is probably decide myself whose vote gets to be taken into account for the averaged result at the end. Feel free to ask me in PM if you'd make the cut so you don't waste time sending a ranking for no reason.

In the meantime, feel free to influence everyone's vote by pushing for or against various Pokemons.

I encourage everyone to get a discussion going or post their rankings, but I'm unsure if I should post mine because I'm not considered a top ranked RBYer. Also I would love for people to chime in on the D and E ranked mons, even if they fall outside of your rankings, so that we can clean them up once and for all.

Please feel free to send me your rankings, especially if you're an active RBYer. Share this with your friends who play the tier. The more the better.
HLing a bunch of people (Didnt tag the people who had already posted): Nails, Heroic Troller, Aliss, Kiichikos, FriendOfMrGolem120, MetalGro$$, Genesis7, Prinz, SoulWind, SMB, Leru, shiloh, Hayburner, Tiba, spies, SaDiSTiCNarwhal, Serpi, Louna, McMeghan, The Quasar, ABR, BIHI, Ortheore, Pohjis, Ranshiin, ziloXX, TC, Vileman, ErPeris, Lusch, Mister Tim

 

[Heroic Troller]

Rankings

EX

Nails holds the only mega stone of rby which grants his Slowbro the special property of never being critted thanks to Shell Armor, useless to say it is an invincible force of nature capable of easily overpowering Electrics and Starmie alike.

Focusing on what changed from my last rankings

Alakazam has ascended to the realm of the gods. Chansey dropping Seismic Toss so much is a bless and less Exeggutor is too of course. Switching on it was never simple, but now it's harder than ever.

Chansey overrunning Ice Beam made Rhydon disappear, Zapdos kindly apreciates, it is the same as ever, strong, fast, bulky, a total nightmare, all the more with Chansey not running old Reflect Seismic Toss.

Slowbro is at his peak, the metagame shifted to sleep t1 in all kind of ways so Slowbro has one less problem to worry about, two with Exeggutor being low.

Rhydon is at a low point now, despite remaining a good one, Chansey spamming Ice Beam severely hurts it.

Moltres is being slept on, i think it's a nice antimeta pick especially because unlike the other birds, he doesn't have a real super hard counter, Starmie is surely a big problem but it is much easier to overcome than say Rhydon for Zapdos or Cloyster for Articuno.

Jolteon lost so many games Zapdos would have won it's barely worth mentioning, being walled by Exeggutor is so bad.

Porygon is a gamble, but one that can work if done correctly, don't spam it though.

 

[Ortheore]

I encourage everyone to get a discussion going or post their rankings, but I'm unsure if I should post mine because I'm not considered a top ranked RBYer.

??? I def think you're good enough to post yours

Also I p much gave up on rby when I decided there wasn't a realistic way of excising the cancer that is the Counter patch, given that smogon ppl seem to think their vote was legitimate. The point is, idk how relevant my rankings are going to be, since I'm fairly out of date, but I feel like dumping some thoughts on some fringemons, because there's really a lot of pokemon that are usable (not as many as Hipmonlee's list might imply though!), though not optimal. Still, I do think a lot of the fringe pokemon are legitimately interesting, fun and worth considering even in serious matches

Anyway, here's my obsolete opinion. If I made this list tomorrow it'd probably look completely different. A few things I'll note

• I subscribe to the school of thought that Lax and Tauros are mandatory, but Chansey can be dropped from time to time (should still be on like, 95% of teams though)
• F+ consists of pokemon that I don't consider worth using, but I could be convinced otherwise. By contrast, I think the pokemon in F rank are utterly useless
• I am not a fan of either Porygon or Kingler.
• Dodrio I genuinely think is less worthy of a team slot than Raticate, since although Rat's bad, SFang at least gives it something interesting that allows it to do things no other pokemon can. On the other hand, Dodrio's just another glass cannon Normal type, but the only thing it does to stand out is murder Egg, which just isn't a compelling point of differentiation for a sweeper since Egg is generally pretty easy to remove

 

[marcoasd]

Starmie has always been good, this isn't something new. However, saying that Alakazam doesn't abuse it one on one is a bit too much (unless Starmie has Surf or Hydro Pump) and saying that Exeggutor is clearly worse is a gamble.
Sleep Powder alone is just too important because you are forced into using Jynx, Gengar, Victreebel (which are lesser pokemon, just taking a look at how everyone ranks them) or Sing Chansey (which is awkward and has horrible coverage) if you are dropping Exeggutor. Even more, Exeggutor often is the only Explosion user on many teams and it walls many threats (Alakazam, Slowbro, Jolteon and many more).
Starmie vs Exeggutor is similar to Snorlax vs Tauros. And yes, Tauros looks better than Snorlax to me too right now.
Zapdos is getting the attention it deserves.
All in all, I have completely changed my mind only on Rest Exeggutor. Hyper Beam or even Double Edge may steal a KO sometimes, but Rest changes the game.
Maybe Rest can make Exeggutor more popular again.

S) Tauros, Snorlax
S-) Chansey
A+) Starmie, Exeggutor
A-) Alakazam, Zapdos
B) Cloyster, Rhydon, Jolteon, Jynx, Slowbro, Gengar
C) Articuno, Moltres, Lapras, Victreebel, Dragonite, Golem, Persian
D) Porygon, Venusaur, Dodrio, Raticate
E) Kabutops, Hypno, Kangaskhan, Sandslash, Golduck, Poliwrath, Pinsir
F) Kingler, Clefable, Charizard, Ninetales, Flareon, Dugtrio, Raichu, Tentacruel, Nidoking, Machamp, Omastar, Hitmonlee...

 

[Amaranth]

Starmie has always been good, this isn't something new. However, saying that Alakazam doesn't abuse it one on one is a bit too much (unless Starmie has Surf or Hydro Pump)

To clarify my point of view, I only meant that Alakazam doesn't actually get much out of pressuring Starmie in the lead 1v1 anymore. It used to be that people would trade Thunder Waves turn 1, and then the Alakazam user could force Starmie out to try and get a second Thunder Wave on something in the back (or if the Starmie player stays too much maybe just kill it with some FPs); now this really isn't the same because Alakazam doesn't get that twave advantage anymore, players will happily switch a Sing Chansey on your Zam and get the lead. Obviously after both sleeps are traded Alakazam still crushes Starmie 1 on 1 and it's a good trait to have for sure, but it's not a particularly impressive lead match up as it used to be, that's all I meant

All in all, I have completely changed my mind only on Rest Exeggutor. Hyper Beam or even Double Edge may steal a KO sometimes, but Rest changes the game.
Maybe Rest can make Exeggutor more popular again.

I agree! Rest Exeggutor can do some really cool things. I built a team with Nails where I drop sleep entirely and just run Psychic / Stun Spore / Rest / Explosion, a lot of people will play really aggressive when they assume they can kill your Eggy in a few moves, revealing Rest can really twist the game on its head in these scenarios. It definitely has its uses. I don't like it on Sleep Powder sets because only having Explosion to threaten other Psychics + Chansey makes it too easy to play around and force into an Explosion, but if you add Stun Spore then it can make real progress while keeping himself alive with Rest. Very interesting option imo, but I don't know if it will shift his popularity much

 

[marcoasd]

To clarify my point of view, I only meant that Alakazam doesn't actually get much out of pressuring Starmie in the lead 1v1 anymore. It used to be that people would trade Thunder Waves turn 1, and then the Alakazam user could force Starmie out to try and get a second Thunder Wave on something in the back (or if the Starmie player stays too much maybe just kill it with some FPs); now this really isn't the same because Alakazam doesn't get that twave advantage anymore, players will happily switch a Sing Chansey on your Zam and get the lead. Obviously after both sleeps are traded Alakazam still crushes Starmie 1 on 1 and it's a good trait to have for sure, but it's not a particularly impressive lead match up as it used to be, that's all I meant


I agree! Rest Exeggutor can do some really cool things. I built a team with Nails where I drop sleep entirely and just run Psychic / Stun Spore / Rest / Explosion, a lot of people will play really aggressive when they assume they can kill your Eggy in a few moves, revealing Rest can really twist the game on its head in these scenarios. It definitely has its uses. I don't like it on Sleep Powder sets because only having Explosion to threaten other Psychics + Chansey makes it too easy to play around and force into an Explosion, but if you add Stun Spore then it can make real progress while keeping himself alive with Rest. Very interesting option imo, but I don't know if it will shift his popularity much

It depends who you are playing against: is Sing Chansey that common right now? Sing Chansey takes Psychic a little better than Starmie but Zam can knock it down with some luck anyway: you miss Sing and special drops kick in. Dealing with Alakazam lead is risky and always will be.
If anything has changed I think it is SToss Chansey not being common anymore, which makes things easier for Zam.
But again, it depends on who we are playing against maybe. And RNG. Actually I understand the line you are suggesting with Sing Chansey, but I would love to see the results on a large scale (win rate).

Yeah, Sleep Rest Egg basically has two attacks. It's a good answer to other Eggs and Snorlax, it does decently well against Chansey after a special drop and screws Alakazam. It is exactly what a S4 build needs, especially if it has a Starmie lead and BeamBolt Chansey.
I mean to say that these teams (S4) rely on just Snorlax + Tauros for offense, plus maybe Zapdos/Rhydon and possibly BeamBolt spam (or Reflect PP stall). They are so boring, and Rest (Sleep) Egg only adds more durability. Stun Spore looks great if you can splash a sleep inducing move on your team.
So yeah, it could change the metagame but it all depends on whether players are willing to use it or not.

 

[Hipmonlee]

D) Porygon, Venusaur, Dodrio, Raticate
E) Kabutops, Hypno, Kangaskhan, Sandslash, Golduck, Poliwrath, Pinsir

I wanna hear more about this bit.

 

[Zokuru]

My 2 cents about it, there's not much to explain imo, just ranked stuff on how consistantly good they are in my eyes

S+
Snorlax
Tauros
Chansey


S
Starmie
Exeggutor
Alakazam

A+
Rhydon
Jolteon
Zapdos
Cloyster

A
Jynx
Gengar

A-
Victreebel
Venusaur
Lapras

B+
Moltres
Slowbro
Articuno
Golem

B
Sandslash
Kingler
Omastar
Kabutops

B-
Persian
Gyarados
Pinsir
Aerodactyl
Dragonite

C
Porygon
Flareon

 

[marcoasd]

I wanna hear more about this bit.

I might be wrong, I never use them and I don't see them often so I work with memory.
I remember During Summer being quite successful with Raticate while on the other hand I don't remember anyone being that successful with Kangaskhan (which I used quite a bit myself in casual games).
Maybe switching into Super Fang is harder than switching into Body Slam?

But again, I wouldn't argue against you if you think I'm wrong.

 

[Ortheore]

My 2 cents about it, there's not much to explain imo, just ranked stuff on how consistantly good they are in my eyes

S+
Snorlax
Tauros
Chansey


S
Starmie
Exeggutor
Alakazam

A+
Rhydon
Jolteon
Zapdos
Cloyster

A
Jynx
Gengar

A-
Victreebel
Venusaur
Lapras

B+
Moltres
Slowbro
Articuno
Golem

B
Sandslash
Kingler
Omastar
Kabutops

B-
Persian
Gyarados
Pinsir
Aerodactyl
Dragonite

C
Porygon
Flareon

Idk, a few of these seem like super spicy takes. Venusaur directly below Bel and over Lapras, MoltCuno and Bro is not something I would've expected, while Aero being ranked, and over Porygon to boot is similarly interesting, given that Pory is supposed to outclass Aero as a Lax wall

 

[Isa]

I remember During Summer being quite successful with Raticate while on the other hand I don't remember anyone being that successful with Kangaskhan (which I used quite a bit myself in casual games).

wasnt this pre-crystal mechs
the one time ds brought raticate to spl it resulted in one of the most painful spl games ive seen

sry ds xoxo

 

[LTG]

Figured I'd share my thoughts, with explanations for everything that isn't completely useless.

S Tier: The bread and butter, the crème de la crème, the absolute best mons in RBY OU. Use these on every team.

Tauros is pretty much indispensable on every RBY OU team, everyone knows this. It is the best revenge killer in the tier and can come in on almost any weakened mon and finish it off, and a very high critical rate means Tauros can flat out sweep if the user gets lucky.

Snorlax is an amazing and versatile mon that should also be included on 99% of teams, thanks to its bulk, power, and versatility. Normally, I'd rank it above Tauros, however the recent popularity of Gengar means that more Laxes are forced to use Earthquake over a more useful move. However, it is still a fantastic mon in the tier.

S- Tier: Extremely solid mons, however not as required on every team as S+ mons.

Another fantastic normal type, it is nigh unbreakable on the special side, and is very versatile to boot. Chansey has so many different sets it's impossible to know what moves it is running until it reveals two or three of them. However, it can be passive sometimes, so some offensive teams can boot it to avoid the momentum drain.

A+ Tier: Really great picks for a variety of teams, but not quite as dominant as what's above them.

Starmie is the best psychic in the tier imo, with a handy set of resistances, reliable recovery, great coverage, and very well-rounded stats with very high speed. An electric weakness holds it back from being super top tier, but it is a very good mon nonetheless.

A Tier: Great picks, but have a minor flaw or two that prevent them from being higher.

Exeggutor is another fantastic psychic. Great stats and a unique typing, along with the ability to spread Sleep and Paralysis, make it a strong candidate for any team. It has other options as well despite a decidedly shallow movepool, including Double-Edge, Rest, Explosion, and even Mega Drain to destroy Rhydons thinking they can live another hit. It is unfortunately a bit slow though, and an Ice weakness is not a good thing to have.

Alakazam is very fast, very strong, can use Thunder Wave, and can even be bulky if it runs Reflect. A high critical rate means it can do some funny things sometimes. It is very predictable though, and must drop Seismic Toss to run Reflect leaving it walled by other Psychics.

A- Tier: Still very solid picks here that can work on many team styles, but flaws begin to become more apparent.

Very strong and very physically bulky. However, its typing is pretty bad and its special is terrible, leaving it OHKOd by common water and ice moves though, and lack of recovery sucks. Its ability to thwart Electrics is a good trait though.

It's very fast, spreads paralysis, and has great special. This is probably the first controversial placement on my list and I know a lot of people will probably be outraged at me placing Jolteon above Zapdos. However, I consistently find Jolteon more annoying to play against and more difficult to handle. A lack of coverage hurts.

B+ Tier: Very good picks, but they may be more niche than A and S ranks, or have more notable flaws that hold them back.

Jolteon's teammate, it makes sense that it would be ranked similarly. The reason Jolteon is a tier higher is because I feel it works better independently of Cloyster, while Cloyster really depends on Jolteon a lot. Anyways, Cloyster takes no damage from a lot of physical attacks and can fire back strong Surfs and Blizzards. Explosion and Clamp help its case, while somewhat low speed hurts it a lot.

Speaking of Zapdos, it is still a rather good mon. A ground immunity is nice, and very high special allows it to do good damage while being able to take some strong hits. I think its speed lets it down a bit though, and an ice weakness and lack of electric resistance means it doesn't feel as bulky as its stats would suggest.

This thing has been rising in popularity recently. A normal immunity is a unique and very valuable in this meta. It also has a very fast Hypnosis and Explosion, making it a strong, albeit inconsistent, lead. However, most normal types it wants to switch into can run Earthquake, meaning it can usually only pivot around them instead of forcing them out unless you run into a weird EQ-less Tauros or a Snorlax that skipped it.

B Tier: More niche picks, require support to function at their best. Their best is very solid, however.

A good lead, with access to a fast sleep that is more accurate than Gengar's Hypnosis, that can hit hard with Psychic and Blizzard. It is OHKOd by Thunder Wave and folds to any physical attack, though. More often than not, it becomes a sleep sack.

Am I biased? Yes. Articuno is my favorite mon to use in RBY just because of its ridiculous raw power. However, I can't put it any higher than B tier in good faith because of some issues like low speed and a lack of coverage.



B- Tier: Beginning to become really niche and have more weaknesses to gold them back.

What happened to Slowbro? I've seen none of it recently. Anyways, we all know what it does, set up and sweep. The prevalence of Zapdos and Jolteon is not helping it at the moment, and it feels like a matchup fish. However, when it goes in, it goes in hard.

Lapras fell from grace, as people realized its traits aren't very good, It's a bulky-ish water with Sing aka always misses, and it has decent stats and coverage to boot. It has the same issue with Slowbro that the electrics aren't helping its case, and it is very slow.

C+ Tier: VicNite tier, this team style is not very good imo

It hits hard and can sleep and Wrap. However, it dies to Thunder Wave and is slow to begin with, making it struggle to come in and do anything. Weaknesses to ice and psychic really hurt it.

Victreebel's teammate, these two are always run together so they rank similarly. Great stats bar speed and a good movepool, so it is versatile. A 4x ice weakness is a recipe for disaster though.

C Tier: Getting into non-OU mons, these are fringe picks that fill very small niches. Some specific teams can appreciate them.

Bulky psychic type that can spread sleep and paralysis. It is very slow and not very strong though.

Strong revenge killer, sort of like a second Tauros but worse in every way. It struggles to switch in and is killed by paralysis.

Inferior in every way to Rhydon besides the Explosion factor, which can apply immense pressure that some teams appreciate.

Stops Snorlax in its tracks and does absolutely nothing else. Can be used on teams that desperately need a way to deal with the behemoth.

C- Tier: These are pretty bad picks that require a team built around them, and the reward may not be worth it.

Strong attacker that can also partially trap. Too bad fire types are terrible in RBY. Also has no coverage.

Completely outclassed by Victreebel as far as I can see. You can use it over victreebel if you want to be quirky and cool I suppose. It can more easily fit Body Slam on its set, so if you really need a Razor Leafer and don't want to use VicNite, Venusaur is your pick.

The best (?) Swords Dance user in OU. Shame that its typing is really bad and it often cannot set up in a game due to ice and water weaknesses. The risk-reward is usually not worth it. The electric immunity is kind of nice.

Another SDer. Better typing so it is slightly more consistent. However it lacks STAB physical moves, and has low special. It is slow and weak to electric.

That is the end of the list of mons I'd use in a serious game that I was actually trying to win. Everything from here on out is a terrible pick and I would not use these in a serious game. Also, explanations end here since most of what follows is theoretical. Ordering within D and E tiers is likely muddy. Any FE mon not in these tiers it utter garbage.

D Tier: Bad picks. Unlikely that these will ever give a good payout in OU.












E Tier: REALLY bad. You'll get an ounce of value every three months from any of these mons.

 

[Koalacance]

They are some things debatable on my PR i know
however each choice is relatively well reflected.

Rhydon can be put easily on the top of the B+ rank but in my opinion, he deserves the A rank. He's the better 6 of the gen -one of the best wallbreaker- he can absorb booms or hbeam and he totally stops some threats like zapdos , jolt or Moltres ( without burn).

i spoke to louna about his opinion and we noticed that our opinions differed about vic ( in fact , he is not the only one). Lots of goods players underestimate this mon and i really dont know why. i think vic is well placed in this PR , he is obviously better than cuno or pras. for those who're wondering why vic is so high in my pr :
Vic has a good speed tier and can outspeed a lot of threats ; he has sleep powder and can stun as well ; he can run hbeam with 105 base atk (this is more than tauros ) ; with the addition of wrap (one of the best atk of the game ) and razor leaf (which crit 255/256 times) he can destroy some archetype ( like slowbro team / dual water + elec / mie lead + rhydon back ...). he totally walls bro and jolt

i talked with some others rby players and they've said that i underestimate bro. I don't think i underestimate it , slowbro is bad and depends too much on luck. electrics/tbolt users have a higher luck of crit ([10%-25%]) and for both of then , slowbro need to be at +4 spc to 2hko. slowbro is also weak at boom users , trap moove , razor leaf users and he is really slow ( u'll always play in 2nd ).

 

[Eeveeto]

Love them, hate them, here goes Eeveeto Viability Ranking:

S Rank

1. : Crit Hyperbeam goes, brrr.

2. Best special wall, best para absorber, good status spreader, good special sweeper and freeze fisher. I mean, everyone knows what it does.

3. Prior to the Body Slam nerf, I would easily have put him as 1st and 100% needed on any RBY Team, even in as random teams as I do. Not the case anymore. I tend to see Lax not bulky enough on either side and at the same time unable to make offensive progress because of... opposing Reflect Lax (and sometimes Chansey). Its still powerful and pretty much needed on like 95% of teams, but I don,t consider it on the level of domination it had prior to the Body Slam nerf.

4. I am still a Big 4 believer and this is my 4th Mon. SPL win rate (highest one in the 10 most used Mons) proves me right, despite knowing that having less mirror matches might have something to do with that. Egg has Sleep, has explosion and useful resistances to electric and ground. Just enough speed to outspeed Chansey makes this Mon threatening to almost everything that it faces. Egg forces ice moves on Starmie and forces a sleeping Lax out. It has enough influency for me to be 4th best Mon. Btw, Mega Drain is his best 4th move, change my mind.

A Rank

5. My opinion on Starmie is higher that it used to be, but I still think this Mon is overrated and needs 6 Moves to use all its potential. It dislikes para (though not as much as Tauros and Zam) and doesn,t tank and hit as much as I want it to. Still, its one of the few Mons that is faster than Tauros and the only one that switches relatively well on it. Walling Jynx and forcing Cloyster to explode are huge attributes.

6. Everyone has this guy here and I won,t be different. As a bonus, it's the fastest Metronome user, so, its the OU Mon that is most likely to use succesfully a OHKO Move.

7. Most dangerous Mon when Rhydon is not present.

8. Makes Zapdos useful and is very good beyond that. Amazing para abusser and boom absorber.

9. Best lead. Both Starmie and Zam are better Mons, but this is the most consistent and dangerous lead, the one that is likely to make the most progress early game. After those early turns it's not that good, but by then it could be enough.

B rank

10. Zapdos check, fastest good mon, Chansey "counter" (if it has Rest + Double Kick) and more useful than Zapdos when it faces a Rhydon.

11. Best Tauros check.

12. Wrapper that also counters Slowbro and scares Starmie and Rhydon out. Has 2 different status and SD.

13. Wins games by itself when it doesn,t get critted. Problem is, it often will.

14. Very bad vs Standart teams, although it can come on Explosions surprisingly when its not lead and discourages them when it is lead. Relying on Hypnosis is never good. Its main strength its that it prevents creativity. Like 70% of the Mons that are below Gengar have huge problems with it.

C rank

15. Strongest Blizzard, good bulk. If Chansey and Starmie are gone, it can easily sweep almost everything. Thats hard to achieve, though.

16. Decent lead, doesn,t rely on Hypnosis as much as Gengar due to having TW too. Can be a funny sweeper with Meditate + Headbutt too.

17. Wrapper that has troubles boosting but sweeps quite often if it manages too.

18. Same as above, but actually threatens a lot without needing to use Fire Spin as often. Fire Blast is really strong and has 30% burn.

19. Ignores all the Reflects, faster than Tauros, but thats it.

20. Nice when used with Rhydon on the same team. You explode Golem on the incoming Egg or Starmie, then opponent sends the Zapdos thinking the danger is gone and you surprise him with Rhydon! ... Yes, its shaky at best, but Explosion still good.

21. Faster and bulkier than Victreebel, so its a better SD sweeper. Don,t underestimate Venu, its good.

D rank (I won,t order starting from here)

Lapras: If Sing is what makes it viable, then its BAD. I actually don,t think that, since it also has Confuse Ray and TBolt, but Cloyster still outclasses this badly.

Kangaskhan: A mix of Tauros and Lax... with the worse parts of both.

Poliwrath: Mixed Amnesia sweeper.

Dodrio: A worse Tauros/Zapdos. It does hit pretty hard though.

Ninetales: Fire Spin goes, brr. Has more special bulk and power than Rapidash.

Rapidash: Fire Spin goes, brr. Has more Attack than Ninetales and Agility.

Flareon: Has more Attack and Special Attack than both Ninetales and Rapidash. Too slow, although it compensates it with not always needing to use Fire Spin on its moveset. Best user of Quick Attack.

Machamp: Best Fight type along with Poliwrath. Can live some Psychic and fish for para with Body Slam.

Sandslash: Beats Rhydon, Golem and Jolteon, not too bad vs rest of the Meta.

Tentacruel: Very strong Hydro Pump.

Kingler: Crabhammer user. If only the Amnesia Mons were not resistant to water... (except Snorlax).

Porygon: The best Snorlax counter, but not very useful beyond that.

Pinsir: Not a bad SD user actually, but its one of the worst Mons against Gengar

E rank

Gyarados: Not a bad mixed Mon, problem is, it won,t break anything as long as a combination of Starmie and Chansey are healthy enough.

Kadabra: Second Alakazam can be useful on some teams.

Nidoking: Ground Mixed Mon, unfortunately weak to Psychic.

Nidoqueen: Same as above, but bulkier and weaker EQs.

Omastar: An impossible to OHKO Mon that is not easy to counter without Starmie (it gest Submission for Chansey. Very strong Hydro and absorbs explosions.

Kabutops: Gets SD and Slash, still can eat some explosions, but frailer than Omastar.

Raichu: An electric that wins against grounds but gets humillated by Egg.

Electrode: An electric that gets crit Explosion... which Rhydon won,t care about.

Electabuzz: An Electric that threatens Vic with Psychic, Chansey with Submission and has no counters due to having Metronome.

Magmar: Threatens Chansey with Submission and has no Counters due to learning Metronome too.

Charizard: A fire type with extensive movepool, but does everything badly.

Mr. Mime: A Psychic type that has better chances to beat Slowbro than Zam due to learning Thunderbolt. Due to not being weak to Electric, has better match-up than Starmie vs Zapdos. It also learns Counter, so thats something.

Raticate: Super Fang user.

Clefable: Bad Chansey and Snorlax mix.

Wigglytuff: Even worse than above, but better Counter user.

Arbok: Glare + wrap. Weak to everything.

Weezing: Boomer that can take some hits, attack on special side and is faster than Egg.

Muk: Slower than Egg, but gets Megadrain for Rhydon and has 3rd strongest Boom in the game.

Parasect: Spore.

Tangela: A grass faster than Egg and not weak to Psychic. Bind user.

Onix: A meme that sometimes works with Bind + Toxic + Explosion.

Golduck: Fastest Amnesia Mon with worse problemas than Poli or Slowbro.

Vaporeon: Bulky water hard to break.

Blastoise: Water counter user. Can do some damage and take some hits.

Lickitung: SD + STAB Hyperbeam.

Dewgong: Only viable on 5 Ice Mons teams, but not a terrible Mon on its own, just outclassed.

Aerodactyl: Snorlax check that sometimes does big damage with crit Sky Attack.

Hitmonlee: Has HJK + Meditate.


Do Not Use Rank.

Beedrill: SD + Twineedle? Nah, terrible.

Butterfree: Use Egg, lol.

Venomoth: Use Egg, lol.

Scyther: Use Pinsir or Persian.

Ditto: Needs way too much support to work.

Fearow: Use Dodrio, lol.

Pidgeot: I think that its better than Fearow due to having more bulk... but use Dodrio, lol.

Arcanine: Could have been more useful if Dig was unbanned. I actually don,t think Dig and Fly are broken, any Standart team has decent odds to just outstall glicth abussers.

Golbat: Why does it have so many weaknesses?

Farfetch'd: Slash ignoring SD is sad.

Primeape: Would be pretty good if Karate Chop was Fight move.

Seadra: Bro, where is your movepool?

Seaking: Unban Horn Drill, pls.

Vileplume: Give Razor Leaf.


And that is. I think this is what RBY OU Meta is like in my head. Feel free to join the Eeveetoism, is a fun religion.

 

[Hipmonlee]

But again, I wouldn't argue against you if you think I'm wrong.

My general position on Raticate is that it is very, very hard to justify it over Persian. Super Fang is better on the first hit vs Lax, but on the second hit youre a bit screwed. And otherwise I think youre better off slashing things. I guess it's a bit less fishy if your opponent has a Gengar.

Kangaskhan on the other hand has it's own niche.

 

[Koalacance]

My general position on Raticate is that it is very, very hard to justify it over Persian. Super Fang is better on the first hit vs Lax, but on the second hit youre a bit screwed. And otherwise I think youre better off slashing things. I guess it's a bit less fishy if your opponent has a Gengar.

Kangaskhan on the other hand has it's own niche.

Persian Is really a good mon and he's really better than raticate. He's better against the reflect Mons ( lax / chansey / kazam ) , he's faster , he hits easily rocks and cloy and he's also more bulky

The only thing where raticate Is better is about him attack stat however he doesnt have an attack with 255/256 of crits and the crit rate of persian

In my opinion kanga is just a worse lax and I do not intensely see the interest to play kanga as 6

it is with this logic that I placed them very close to each other in the lowest tier btw

 

[Nails]

S+




Chansey is the most important mon in every game, it's the best mon in the tier at gaining an advantage without giving something up yourself. Whatever your team's favorite status is, it can spread it. It generates free turns and forces switches like no other, and accumulates odds with that tempo. Teams fold to it if their booms miss the mark. It's the main reason Snorlax can't recklessly spam Body Slam. Absolute Behemoth.

Tauros is the endgame, it's the looming threat that you always have to keep in mind. The thing about that is that it's never supposed to hit the field until then (lest it take damage and lose to the opposing Tauros), and so it's more of a threat on paper that you have to retain checks to than something which actively wins games. If you need to use Tauros to break their team, you have lost your wincon. Its reliance on Hyper Beam means it is never consistent; it can just crit the Body Slam anyways, but Hyper Beaming the Starmie switch is game losing unless you miss or crit. It's always capable of dumb shit, and you're not allowed to forget to use it, but its game to game impact is lower than the mons above.

Snorlax is the top 3 mon I have the least to say about, despite the fact that it's easily the most interesting mon in the tier. It picks which pressure point it wants to press during team building and uses its fourth move to make the team sad in one specific manner. If you're not using Reflect and Rest on the mon you're inting to enemy Snorlax, and to a lesser extent Tauros.

A+


Starmie beats everything except Chansey and electrics, but it can't pressure Chansey so it's ranked below the mons that can. It's so fat and abuses TWave and 32 PP Recover so well. Shrugging off booms from Eggy and Cloy is bonkers. Insane mon.

A



Zam's Psychics Hurt Stuff. It's the most offensively potent mon that has a 50% recovery move, and it's one of a few special attackers that can push damage through Chansey to other mons behind it. Would be broken with more defense (can you believe that people used to use Reflect on it Lmao imagine dropping Seismic Toss).

People are probably too low on Eggy at this point, it's still pretty consistently a 2 for 1 and sometimes a 3 for 1 if your normal move hits. The teams which have it are less stable than the teams without it and rely on being ahead to close out the game, so if it booms into the slept mon they're fucked. But more often than not it's just trading up. Good mon.

A-



Cloyster is the best switch into Tauros and Snorlax which is always a valuable addition to a team. It can usually get its boom off without too much trouble, it can freeze stuff, it can reliably heal, it can push progress through anything with Clamp. A complete pokemon. Its interactions with Starmie aren't even that bad.

Jynx gets to roll for game in the first few turns and if it whiffs it traded sleep for sleep. The fact that it does rude things to the best Chansey set is just gravy. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

B+




The elephant in the room in my rankings is Zapdos. It's objectively threatening enough to be ranked way higher, but the presence of these other two shut it down effectively enough that it's a massive liability in those games. The 30% of games where you're forced into aggressive double switching to get around the losing matchup are enough to tank its average which is otherwise sky high. It's completely useless defensively, since much like Tauros it's a sweeper and has to preserve its hp at all costs to remain threatening. Boom or bust matchup fish.

The two Zapdos counters can both apply pressure to cores, lose to some other stuff but are generally consistent. Jolteon switches into Chansey, Rhydon switches into mono normal Lax. You're not allowed to use either of Jolteon or Rhydon too much but you have to bring them often enough to deter Zapdos. Important pieces of the meta, but they lack power that higher ranked mons possess.

B



Gengar's the only real deterrent to two otherwise broken mons, Jynx and mono-normal Snorlax. It's not good, it doesn't actually accomplish anything even when it hits its matchups, but its existence is an important countermeasure.

Slowbro is a god that breaks everything above it on the list but if other people figure out how to get a mega stone into RBY I'll lose my primary edge on the field so I've hidden it down here.

Everything else below this kinda really sucks tbh, my 2020 rankings had:

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21

I don't really disagree with any of this a year later, they're basically ranked according to their ability to fight vs the normals collectively which is lowkey the entirety of RBY viability anyways. All of them are pretty flawed though, and are genuinely a full letter grade below Slowbro, and honestly they're all pretty close in viability, so I'm fine with calling that the C rank and stopping my ranking at the same place I did last year. None of the mons here can consistently hang with the top guys, but they can on occasion get some tempo and make some stuff happen.

 

[marcoasd]

My general position on Raticate is that it is very, very hard to justify it over Persian. Super Fang is better on the first hit vs Lax, but on the second hit youre a bit screwed. And otherwise I think youre better off slashing things. I guess it's a bit less fishy if your opponent has a Gengar.

Kangaskhan on the other hand has it's own niche.

Well, Raticate over Persian is ok.
Against Snorlax (Reflect, Rest obviously) Raticate can go Super Fang (accuracy permitting) x2 into CH Body Slam; Persian has a 6.5% chance to 3HKO with Slash, fishing for a CH Hyper Beam can go wrong and it needs to to use Screech otherwise.
Also, Slash x2 into CH Body Slam depends on rolls (which look doable) but I'm not sure whether Body Slam is a standard move for Persian or not.
They both apply good pressure, but Raticate looks slightly better.

Obviously Persian has great upsides, mostly speed, and is clearly superior overall.