RBY NU - Tier Discussion and Evaluation

Status
Not open for further replies.

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Making this thread since we can't discuss NU here
http://rby2k10.proboards.com/thread/273
this is pretty much the only tier listing with an RBY NU, but it has been played a fair bit, although has the joys of still being somewhat unexplored. PO uses the same or a similar list I believe.

Stuff to discuss:
- Should Smogon adopt the rby2k10 tierlist?
- Should we create a BL2 to drop pokemon useless or near-useless in UU that are far too good for NU (mainly dewgong and I think a couple of fire types)?
- How does partial trapping affect what's available in these tiers and the tiering of pokemon such as dragonair?

RBY NU is still fairly unexplored, but the curious mix of high base stat final stage evolutions/non-evolving pokemon such as electrode, magneton, aerodactyl, omastar, etc. alongside first-stage pokemon such as slowpoke and gastly, and of course a handful of those in between, it leads to an unique tier, where many different types are viable, and strategically remains more unexplored without the explosive burst of set up sweepers present in UU.

I can grab a log or two of some test battles I had with Actaeon just dipping my foot into the tier, if anyone would be curious.
 
What's up with everybody linking to my old shit all of a sudden? :mad:

Either way, that RBY NU tier list looks fine imo, and I believe the one in PO is very similar if not exactly the same. I think the main issue was Poliwhirl who was never used in UU yet too good for NU, so it got eventually moved up. Arcanine and Ninetales have no business being in UU though, so I'm not sure why they got moved up. I guess it's just because they are a class above Flareon, Magmar and Rapidash but they are far from broken.

Other than that I think everything else is fine, although Dragonair may be suspect under Wrap conditions. It's been allowed on PO for a while though.
 
Crystal_ said:
I think the main issue was Poliwhirl who was never used in UU yet too good for NU, so it got eventually moved up. Arcanine and Ninetales have no business being in UU though, so I'm not sure why they got moved up. I guess it's just because they are a class above Flareon, Magmar and Rapidash but they are far from broken.
Click to expand...
This is why I suggested a BL2, although letting those pokemon just stay in UU doesn't give us any issues when trying to play either metagame, it'd just be sensible in my opinion @_@
 
Hello !

I don't think that Smogon should adopt exactly the same tierlist that rby2k10, but instead, it should be inspired of it. Indeed, in my opinion, Wrap Moves aren't broken. They are as dangerous as risky to use. It's double-edged. Moreover, I disagree with the Self-KO clause they're proposing, especially in NU. However, if we decide to remove the Wrap Moves Clause, the NU will suffer of a few changes. For instance,"BL2" will sure be created. Also, I recommend a suspect test for Dragonair, not a quick ban (I currently don't have an opinion on some Pokemons, Dewgong for example).

That's all, I wait your opinions and your proposals about this topic !
 
The fact that there weren't literally 700 pokemon so the absolute number of mons that went relatively unused in standard (OU) play didn't number in the hundreds.
 
Disaster Area said:
This is why I suggested a BL2, although letting those pokemon just stay in UU doesn't give us any issues when trying to play either metagame, it'd just be sensible in my opinion @_@
Click to expand...
The problem with letting those Pokémon stay in UU is that if NU exists, then UU becomes a usage-based tier, and by definition if something isn't used enough in UU then it becomes NU (or BL2).
 
Started playing RBY much more lately, and reflecting my overall thoughts on the idea of an NU tier, I'd say maybe like 12 Pokes would be there. Specfically:

-Any Bug/Flying like Scyther or Butterfree. IMO the worst type combination in the series, and even worse in gen 1 due to Blizzard and Thunderbolt being everywhere. The limited movepools(Scyther) or heavy Overshadow by abetter Pokes(Butterfree) don't help either.
-Pikachu. only standalone NFE in NU thanks to Yellow version. has a Surf niche but this is pre-Light Ball so has a meh time dealing damage to non SE targets so Seismic Toss is pretty much a must for him. only major standout is being the only Gen 1 poke to naturally learn Thunderbolt for some reason.
-Farfetch'd. It's Farfetch'd, it's tradition.
-Flareon. The Weakest link, outclassed by both the other Fire types and even worse then that by the other Eeveeloutions.
-Onix.AMAZING defense. Best speed of all the Rock Types. Terrible everything else(seriously-EVERYTHING ELSE.)
-Pidgeot. Anything it can do, Fearow does better.
-Hitmonchan. Has Elemental punches in a pre Physcal/Special split era and poor Special stat alongside that. Weakest fighting type in the game.
-Ditto. Apparently has some sort of niche in Ubers, but also has the worst overall stats of a non evolved Pokemon in the game so that's a bit of a downer.
-Beedrill. Strongest Bug move in the game on a Bug/Poison. at leas Gengar has immunity to one of the 3 best typings in the game, this is just a walking joke.
-Golbat. It's fast! It has one of the best Confuse Uses! It can do pretty much nothing else Beyond that! also Poison type, and we know how that goes mostly..
-Other NFEs(except for dudes like Kadabra, Haunter, Graveler or Poliwhirl, who rank anywhere in the BL-UU ranks.)

As for a BL2, I feel like Hitmonlee, Machamp and probably the Fossilmons(Aero/Kabs/Helix) fall in that category.
 
Fawfulmk-II said:
not enough Pokemon for NU usually. excluding NFEs there would maybe be like...8 Pokes in that tier anyway.
Click to expand...
Honestly, we are talking about RBY here, not 700+ pokemon generations. I really see no point in creating an artificial tier between NU and UU, nobody will care if there are a few pokes sitting in UU that don't meet usage standards. Uber, OU, BL, UU, BL2 and NU, that's ridiculous for a generation with 151 pokes.

It's also not a such often played metagame that you'll get very useful usage statistics anyway. From anything gen 3 and above we can draw on the data of the time where that was THE metagame, of course, but for gen 1 and 2, just no. No.
 
gaudetjaja said:
Honestly, we are talking about RBY here, not 700+ pokemon generations. I really see no point in creating an artificial tier between NU and UU, nobody will care if there are a few pokes sitting in UU that don't meet usage standards. Uber, OU, BL, UU, BL2 and NU, that's ridiculous for a generation with 151 pokes.

It's also not a such often played metagame that you'll get very useful usage statistics anyway. From anything gen 3 and above we can draw on the data of the time where that was THE metagame, of course, but for gen 1 and 2, just no. No.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that. even in my example above there are still only a small number of Pokemon in the overall game that would sit in such a tier, and in a game with a small roster anyway and stuff probably still unknown(see: Body Slam mechanics find from 2 years ago) a NU probably would not work(and let's not even get started on stuff like RU, PU, BL3/4....)

The only thing that probably should be added in the end is probably BL tier again, and UU back to the RBY ladder on PS.
 
You're pretty out of date here, "BL" has already been reformed into the new RBY UU and was the RoA Spotlight meta for a while. The old UU likely won't be back, since whenever the new RBY RU/NU (whichever they go with) is formed, it'll probably have much different Pokemon in the tier compared to what the old UU had.

Also, the argument that 'RBY doesn't have enough Pokemon for NU' doesn't hold water. When considering properly what Pokemon belong in each tier in RBY in terms of what is actually viable in the tier and not vague power levels, you usually get about 13-18 Pokemon in each tier, which is about right considering OU has 15. Over on Pokemon Perfect, the RBY tiering process has reached its 5th tier (PU) and there are still a good number of fully evolved Pokemon leftover.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top