ORAS Ubers [Rate My Team] No Legendary/Pseudo-Legendary Rain Team

mrnanderson

mrnanderson

Some Background: Having a small League with just friends and we have banned legendaries and Pseudo legendaries, everything else is fair game. I really like Politoad, Mamoswine, Kabutops, and Forretress so I threw them all in a team.


Some Other Details: Politoad tends to lead to set up Drizzle, but sometimes Forretress will to set up spikes. Heliolisk has crazy good coverage for his moves so he comes in handy when anticipating switches. Mega-Salamence, and Kabutops are super fast and super strong so they are my sweeps. Thick Fat Mamoswine in the rain can really take a hit from fire moves and is great when I smell a Thunder or Thunderbolt coming my way.


Last Thoughts: A lot of the Pokemon I've picked are because I really like them. With that being said, I am up for some changes, but it would really help me if when you suggest a Pokemon be switched for another if I had like maybe two options since I am so picky (Looking at you, Ferrothorn). Additionally I am very new at this so any advice is going to be really helpful. Thanks guys!!!


Calm Politoad (Tenjin) [Politoad usually leads the lineup to set up Drizzle, though other times I may lead with Forretress. This dude can take a hit so I'm actually not frightened to leave him out and let him brawl with the STAB-Rain surf. I will usually try to get off a toxic before I have Politoad start fighting]
Ability: Drizzle @ Damp Rock
252 HP, 252, SpDef, 4 Speed

  • Ice Beam
  • Scald
  • Surf
  • Toxic

Adamant Mega-Salamence (Yato) [Mega-Salamence would normally bump my team to the "Uber Tier" I suppose, but I don't have to worry about that with my particular play group. Salamence is in here for raw power. He has decent enough coverage and the STAB Dragon Claw with a Dragon Dance can really start sweeping teams]
Ability: @ Salamencite
252 Attk, 252 Speed, 4 Def

  • Iron Tail
  • Earthquake
  • Dragon Claw
  • Dragon Dance

Timid Heliolisk (Hiyori Iki) [I've actually really grown to love Heliolisk in my Rain Team. Dry skin completely negates the effect of the Life Orb on the Pokemon and allows him to sweep pretty hard without fear of her weakening herself over time. What I really like about this Pokemon though is the coverage I have on it. The Grass Knot with the Life Orb has 1HKO'd plenty of Mega-Swamperts, the 100% STAB Thunder can really crush opposing water and flying types or honestly just anything that switches in negligently against it, Volt Switch is good for getting out of pinches, and Surf in the rain has completely surprised opponents of mine and they've made pretty awful switches against it.]
Ability: Dry Skin @ Life Orb
252 SpAttk, 252 Speed, 4 SpDef

  • Surf
  • Grass Knot
  • Volt Switch
  • Thunder

Relaxed Forretress (Daikoku) [Forretress is mostly on the team because I love the Pokemon to be honest. With that being said I really don't think it is awful and Gyro Ball has done tons of damage to other Pokemon, especially if opponents don't know Forretress has the move and continue to boost their speed. As mentioned previously I do like to lead with Forretress sometimes depending on what my opponent is running. If I do lead with Forretress, spikes is usually the first move I start piling on, and then I'll hit the eject button with Volt Switch. I really like sending out Forretress later in the game because the Drizzle from Politoad will decrease his weakness to fire moves.]
Ability: Sturdy @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def

  • Spikes
  • Volt Switch
  • Gyro Ball
  • Rapid Spin

Adamant Kabutops (Yukine) [Kabutops hits hard and is nearly impossible to out-speed in the rain. STAB Waterfall and Stone Edge crush most Pokemon, and in the rain, Waterfall is even more fierce. I usually only risk a swords dance if I feel like my opponent is going to switch out. Too many Pokemon seem to have Energy Ball which I've found will 1HKO Kabutops.]
Ability: Swift Swim @ Life Orb
252 Attk, 252 Speed, 4 Def

  • Stone Edge
  • Waterfall
  • Swords Dance
  • Low Kick

Jolly Mamoswine (Kuguha) [This is another Pokemon that is on the team just because I like it. With the rain team, it seems a lot of people are tempted to use their own Thunders against my water types. That's where this guy comes in, as he is completely unaffected my electric attacks. Thick Fat combined with the rain make him very very good against fire Pokemon. Though a good surf will usually 1HKO this guy due to the rain. I really don't have a reason for Earth Power, but I honestly don't know what else to put there so I just left it.]
Ability: Thick Skin @ Life Orb
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Speed

  • Icicle Crash
  • Earthquake
  • Earth Power
  • Ice Shard
 
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Hi there! Unfortunately your team suffers from the curse of unviability :(

Also salamence is a sub legendary :(

Rain teams arent viable with the weather trio being immensely popular and for futer reference a rain team contains a lot more than just a rain setter and a mon with water type moves.

Two water moves on politoed are useless, as is toed itself.

Your mence set is not viable and its a sub legend

Heliosk isn't viable. Try it in uu.

Forretress is meh. Put stealth rock in in the future.

Kabutops sucks in ubers.

Mamo is not viable and is inferior to cloyster. Also dual earth? Knock off.

Sorry but this team isnt usable in the ubers tier. Also you broke your own legendary requirement. I would recommend making this ou, but that eliminates mence and kabutops heliosk and forretress still aren't great. And toed is useless really on this team. Good luck, but id make a new team. Use these resources to help you:

These are the mons which are ubers viable:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ranking-thread-last-updated-post-830.3535106/

Search a mon in here for a viable moveset:

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/

Any questions, private message me or put em ere.

Good luck!
 
SuperSixFighters said:
Hi there! Unfortunately your team suffers from the curse of unviability :(

Also salamence is a sub legendary :(

Rain teams arent viable with the weather trio being immensely popular and for futer reference a rain team contains a lot more than just a rain setter and a mon with water type moves.

Two water moves on politoed are useless, as is toed itself.

Your mence set is not viable and its a sub legend

Heliosk isn't viable. Try it in uu.

Forretress is meh. Put stealth rock in in the future.

Kabutops sucks in ubers.

Mamo is not viable and is inferior to cloyster. Also dual earth? Knock off.

Sorry but this team isnt usable in the ubers tier. Also you broke your own legendary requirement. I would recommend making this ou, but that eliminates mence and kabutops heliosk and forretress still aren't great. And toed is useless really on this team. Good luck, but id make a new team. Use these resources to help you:

These are the mons which are ubers viable:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ranking-thread-last-updated-post-830.3535106/

Search a mon in here for a viable moveset:

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/

Any questions, private message me or put em ere.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Looks like we didn't understand what "Pseudo-Legendary, meant. We just meant Pokemon like Lucario, Heatran, and Volcarona. On a side note you're feedback could barely pass as "Helpful or constructive." I just put the Uber tag on this because of the Mega Salamence. The reality is I'm in an 8 man bracket (I believe I mentioned this in the post) with some friends and we are banning Legendaries (That means that there are only a handful of Pokemon in the Uber Tier that can even be used). This also means that I don't have to worry about Kyogre, Groudon, or Rayquaza. This is mainly for fun, but everyone is making really strong teams under the parameters we set so I was looking for some feedback under those parameters. Check this link out before your next post. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rmt-rules-resources-required-reading.3534875/
 
mrnanderson said:
Looks like we didn't understand what "Pseudo-Legendary, meant. We just meant Pokemon like Lucario, Heatran, and Volcarona. On a side note you're feedback could barely pass as "Helpful or constructive." I just put the Uber tag on this because of the Mega Salamence. The reality is I'm in an 8 man bracket (I believe I mentioned this in the post) with some friends and we are banning Legendaries (That means that there are only a handful of Pokemon in the Uber Tier that can even be used). This also means that I don't have to worry about Kyogre, Groudon, or Rayquaza. This is mainly for fun, but everyone is making really strong teams under the parameters we set so I was looking for some feedback under those parameters. Check this link out before your next post. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rmt-rules-resources-required-reading.3534875/
Click to expand...
Well im afraid we can't rate specific rulesets here :(. Everything I posted was true though. And I have read the link before. A lot of raters would have simply put "start again". Also, what is your definition of pseudo legendary? Heatran is a legendary, but the rest are just normal mons. Good luck anyway, but I can't rate any further unless I have more details. Remember we rate to help you, not for our own good.
 
mrnanderson said:
Looks like we didn't understand what "Pseudo-Legendary, meant. We just meant Pokemon like Lucario, Heatran, and Volcarona. On a side note you're feedback could barely pass as "Helpful or constructive." I just put the Uber tag on this because of the Mega Salamence. The reality is I'm in an 8 man bracket (I believe I mentioned this in the post) with some friends and we are banning Legendaries (That means that there are only a handful of Pokemon in the Uber Tier that can even be used). This also means that I don't have to worry about Kyogre, Groudon, or Rayquaza. This is mainly for fun, but everyone is making really strong teams under the parameters we set so I was looking for some feedback under those parameters. Check this link out before your next post. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rmt-rules-resources-required-reading.3534875/
Click to expand...
Lucario and Volcarona are most certainly not Pseudo-legendaries. If you mean Mythical + Legendary, then Heatran doesn't fit in.

Also, it's literally impossible to give constructive feedback because the team in a whole is unviable. Feedback from me?

Scrap this, start over, because almost everything here won't hold up to anything outside of UU, bar Salamence. Your sets are fine, if you're playing lower tiers, but there's next to no cohesion, very little support, and you have no way to hurt priority users like Lucario bar Ice Shard, which again isn't a Pseudo-legend.

Edit: Also, don't be a dick. Explain the rules if you have any besides the 'no legends' thing. Also, Mence is a Pseudo-legend, so your own rule was broken.
 
Unfortunately, both of them are right. While not really impossible to give your team a proper rate, the RMT section is generally used for teams based around a known metagame(such as Ubers, OU, etc.). People won't instantly know what the most viable sets and strategies are for you when you involve special rules(such as banning Legendaries and Psuedo-Legendaries).

However, as a rain team in general, there's plenty of changes you could make to it. As it is, your team really doesn't benefit too much from your ability to set rain - only Kabutops and to a lesser extent Heliolisk really synergize with it.

To begin with: As mentioned, Salamence already breaks your "no (Psuedo)legendary" rule. Psuedos are non-legendary pokemon with a Bast Stat Total of 600, such as Dragonite, Tyranitar, and Salamence. However, you could easily remedy this with a switch to Mega Swampert. Not only would it still give you a strong physical attacker/sweeper, it also provides you with another excellent abuser of your Politoed's Drizzle. A basic set would be something like:

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Tbh, I'd probably suggest using Ferrothorn over Forretress, but the choice is really up to you. They're both excellent hazard setters, but Ferro would give you a decent way to resist your opponents Rain-boosted Water-type attacks if Heliolisk has been taken out, without risking too much damage on your Politoed(more on that in a moment). Regardless, I'd say to put Stealth Rock over Spikes, as they will provide you with much better overall hazard damage; Spikes can be avoided, Rocks can't. If you do want to change, though, I'll just throw the Smogdex set here, as it should work as a good wall/hazard setter on your team.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball/Power Whip
- Power Whip/Protect/Thunder Wave

I'd also say to put Rest over Surf on Politoed. While Scald is slightly weaker, you really don't need two Water STABs of similar strength on it, and the potential for burn is much more valuable than a slight base power increase. This will also let your Politoed not only last longer, allowing for more chances to get up rain if needed, but can still act as an excellent special wall throughout the game.

Lastly, you're very weak to grass types(and some of these changes don't really help that issue). Unfortunately, the best answer for this on a rain team would be something like Tornadus or its Therian forme, but your rules kind of prevent that. I honestly can't think of a perfect fit right now for the soloution, but some options would be Breloom, Toxicroak or Scizor over Mamoswine, as you would already have Mega Swampert as your Ground-type.

I'm sure there's plenty of other potential tweaks, but I'm not super experienced with rain teams. Also, if you'd like to learn more about competitive Pokemon, you might want to check out the Tutor Program. And best of luck in your tournament.
 
mrnanderson said:
Some Background: Having a small League with just friends and we have banned legendaries and Pseudo legendaries, everything else is fair game. I really like Politoad, Mamoswine, Kabutops, and Forretress so I threw them all in a team.


Some Other Details: Politoad tends to lead to set up Drizzle, but sometimes Forretress will to set up spikes. Heliolisk has crazy good coverage for his moves so he comes in handy when anticipating switches. Mega-Salamence, and Kabutops are super fast and super strong so they are my sweeps. Thick Fat Mamoswine in the rain can really take a hit from fire moves and is great when I smell a Thunder or Thunderbolt coming my way.


Last Thoughts: A lot of the Pokemon I've picked are because I really like them. With that being said, I am up for some changes, but it would really help me if when you suggest a Pokemon be switched for another if I had like maybe two options since I am so picky (Looking at you, Ferrothorn). Additionally I am very new at this so any advice is going to be really helpful. Thanks guys!!!


Calm Politoad (Tenjin) [Politoad usually leads the lineup to set up Drizzle, though other times I may lead with Forretress. This dude can take a hit so I'm actually not frightened to leave him out and let him brawl with the STAB-Rain surf. I will usually try to get off a toxic before I have Politoad start fighting]
Ability: Drizzle @ Damp Rock
252 HP, 252, SpDef, 4 Speed

  • Ice Beam
  • Scald
  • Surf
  • Toxic

Adamant Mega-Salamence (Yato) [Mega-Salamence would normally bump my team to the "Uber Tier" I suppose, but I don't have to worry about that with my particular play group. Salamence is in here for raw power. He has decent enough coverage and the STAB Dragon Claw with a Dragon Dance can really start sweeping teams]
Ability: @ Salamencite
252 Attk, 252 Speed, 4 Def

  • Iron Tail
  • Earthquake
  • Dragon Claw
  • Dragon Dance

Timid Heliolisk (Hiyori Iki) [I've actually really grown to love Heliolisk in my Rain Team. Dry skin completely negates the effect of the Life Orb on the Pokemon and allows him to sweep pretty hard without fear of her weakening herself over time. What I really like about this Pokemon though is the coverage I have on it. The Grass Knot with the Life Orb has 1HKO'd plenty of Mega-Swamperts, the 100% STAB Thunder can really crush opposing water and flying types or honestly just anything that switches in negligently against it, Volt Switch is good for getting out of pinches, and Surf in the rain has completely surprised opponents of mine and they've made pretty awful switches against it.]
Ability: Dry Skin @ Life Orb
252 SpAttk, 252 Speed, 4 SpDef

  • Surf
  • Grass Knot
  • Volt Switch
  • Thunder

Relaxed Forretress (Daikoku) [Forretress is mostly on the team because I love the Pokemon to be honest. With that being said I really don't think it is awful and Gyro Ball has done tons of damage to other Pokemon, especially if opponents don't know Forretress has the move and continue to boost their speed. As mentioned previously I do like to lead with Forretress sometimes depending on what my opponent is running. If I do lead with Forretress, spikes is usually the first move I start piling on, and then I'll hit the eject button with Volt Switch. I really like sending out Forretress later in the game because the Drizzle from Politoad will decrease his weakness to fire moves.]
Ability: Sturdy @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def

  • Spikes
  • Volt Switch
  • Gyro Ball
  • Rapid Spin

Adamant Kabutops (Yukine) [Kabutops hits hard and is nearly impossible to out-speed in the rain. STAB Waterfall and Stone Edge crush most Pokemon, and in the rain, Waterfall is even more fierce. I usually only risk a swords dance if I feel like my opponent is going to switch out. Too many Pokemon seem to have Energy Ball which I've found will 1HKO Kabutops.]
Ability: Swift Swim @ Life Orb
252 Attk, 252 Speed, 4 Def

  • Stone Edge
  • Waterfall
  • Swords Dance
  • Low Kick

Jolly Mamoswine (Kuguha) [This is another Pokemon that is on the team just because I like it. With the rain team, it seems a lot of people are tempted to use their own Thunders against my water types. That's where this guy comes in, as he is completely unaffected my electric attacks. Thick Fat combined with the rain make him very very good against fire Pokemon. Though a good surf will usually 1HKO this guy due to the rain. I really don't have a reason for Earth Power, but I honestly don't know what else to put there so I just left it.]
Ability: Thick Skin @ Life Orb
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Speed

  • Icicle Crash
  • Earthquake
  • Earth Power
  • Ice Shard
Click to expand...

Hello! For this rate, I'm going to assume you keep the Pokemon you say you like (Politoed Mamoswine Kabutops and Forretress). Here's what I would do.

Scald and Surf are similar enough in power so that you don't need both. Something like Hydro Pump or Perish Song would probably be more useful.
Iron Tail isn't a good option on Salamence-Mega because of its unreliability and because you don't really need it. However, you need something that deals good damage to Fairy types, and you definitely want something to take advantage of Salamence-Mega's awesome ability in Aerilate (makes normal type moves flying type and boosts their power). These can both be solved at once! Use Double-Edge or Return instead of Aerilate.
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Unaware Clefable: 271-321 (68.7 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Unaware Clefable: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With the brute power of these options, you could even substitute the weaker Dragon Claw for Refresh or Roost to increase Salamence's longevity, which I would suggest you do.

Stealth Rock over Earth Power on Mamoswine.

Well, actually, I lied earlier. I really think you should replace Foretress, not only because you don't really need it, but because you have much better options at your disposal. One would be Ferrothorn, who loves being less weak to Fire Type attacks, and can cause big problems with Leech Seed and decent STABS in Power Whip and Gyro Ball. It can also set up hazards. Another good option is Ludicolo, another Grass type (aside from Salamence-Mega you're pretty weak to them). He can use Swift Swim and his awesome Grass/Water typing to make serious holes with either a special set or a physical Swords Dance set.

And according to the de facto "official" definition, salamance is indeed a Pseudo legendary. Maybe there is one, but I don't know what distinction would include Volcarona and Heatran in the same group regarding legendary/not legendary/pseudo legendary etc. status
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To be completely honest with you, I gave you a team rate, which assumes that you are keeping the fundamental archetype. I just saw that earlier that you said "this is mainly for fun, but everybody is making really strong teams under the parameters we set" (or something similar; my copy paste on iPad is derping). While building a team for fun is obviously fine, here it seems like you can't have both. If I were to give you honest competitive advice, even under your parameters, I would advise to scrap everything besides Salamence-mega (although keeping the changes for it I suggested earlier) and start completely new. Your parameters open up excellent options to you like Aegislash, Greninja, Blaziken, Kyurem-Black, Clefable, Skarmory, Talonflame... Obviously not saying you have to use all of these Pokemon, and you shouldn't insert them without thinking and keeping synergy, but they are definitely better options in most cases than what you have now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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