Raining on my Parade

[Mattman324]

Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears! This team has gotten me a pretty good degree of success, and considering it's a shake up of the normal "musharna/haunter and sawk/gardevoir/skuntank" cores that seem to pervade the metagame, it could be a good thing to check out.

The focus of the team is Rain Dance. Rain teams are somewhat crippled without Drizzle, but hey, we all ran Rain without it in past gens just fine, and NU happens to have a nice variety of threats that can function in the rain.

So, here's the squad:

ArmAndALeg (Armaldo) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SDef / 252 HP
Impish Nature
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- X-Scissor

Armaldo is a fun pokemon to deal with. It's got a good degree of bulk, can Rapid Spin (important in a team with three Rock weaks and not a single Spikes immune), can SR, and, what sets him apart for me, has Swift Swim. The moves are all obvious, but what isn't obvious is the exact use Armaldo usually goes through - normally, it seems he just dies early on to allow for others. That's because he is unfortunately commonly dead weight (not to the Wartortle extent, but pretty bad). However, against any team with multiple Psychics, he's invaluable as threat control, and for that I like him.

MyBurdenTo (Beartic) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Aqua Jet

Beartic, meanwhile, has the direct code to "smash everything in sight and talk later". I could have gone the SD route, but every one of these moves is important: Icicle Crash as the powerful STAB (and under Swift Swim, that flinch chance isn't wasted), Superpower kills stray Regice (who otherwise annoys the hell out of me), Night Slash is a more accurate solution to Psychics, and Aqua Jet kills Skuntank and other priority using annoyances.

Bulk Freighter (Alomomola) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Wish

Alomololomolomomola. Or however it's pronounced. You've all seen it in NU, and it's function as an undying physical wall has not changed for the purposes of this team. Before you ask about the item (and more specifically, why not a Damp Rock), Alomomola has no way of reliably recovering, and the only way to get anything like that involves an ability swap (Hydrorest being as it is). Though I've considered Hydrorest, ultimately continued switch ability is more important.

Blood And (Gorebyss) (F) @ White Herb
Trait: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Heh, love that name pun. Anyway, Gorybyss is one of the oddly underused pokemon in NU, as it can pretty much destroy everything in the tier after a Shell Smash - only Taunt/Sucker Punch Skuntank can reliably defeat it, and it can only do it as a revenge kill. This thing can take a Close Combat from all Sawks who aren't Banded, so setting up isn't an issue. Really, we ALL know how these things operate, and I see no reason to continue describing it.

Miror B. (Ludicolo) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Rain Dance

Now HERE'S something nonstandard. Well, the Surf/Ice Beam/Giga Drain core is still there, and it isn't much of a stretch to see Rain Dance I imagine, but some of you out there are probably scratching your heads at the lack of a Life Orb. Well, in the rain, it's easily strong enough to compensate, especially with a Modest nature (don't really need ALL that speed if it's going to be doubled anyway.) This thing has nearly singlehandedly won multiple battles on its own. SALSA!

LapisLazuli (Lapras) (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Hydration
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Rest
- Heal Bell

No matter what you do, your team has to have some base. Some "core", that you can base everything around. Lapras is that base. A Special Defense that can take pretty much everything (This can beat Regice one on one, though it isn't easy), Hydrest, and of course my Damp Rock. Heal Bell is a nice thing as well, considering how much this team hates Thunder Wave. Lapras may look like a big, slow, stupid thing, but it hits pretty hard, and in rain, it can make use of its power - thus why Surf instead of Scald.



So, in closing, this team is built to slam people in the face with powerful threats, and use Lapras and Alomomola to stop things from dieing. There are a few issues this team has, though...

SWAGPARD: If I still have Lapras, Hydration can be a pivotal thing, but otherwise... well, we all know how much Swagpard sucks.

BANDED SAWK: Outside of adding Frillish or somesuch, I can't see a good way to beat this damned thing within the theme. I usually switch Alomo in and try to stall for a little, get up RD, and then kill on the revenge, but there is no reasonable way to beat it. Nonband sawk, however, is no threat, as Alomomola can stall all day, and if Rain is up, Gorebyss can live a single Close Combat and set up for a sweep (which I have done.

Probably one or two other things I haven't seen yet.


CHANGES: Armaldo used to have Stone Edge over Rock Blast, but I usually ended up attacking with X-Scissor anyway, so using a subbreaking move helps. Plus, it's better for Swagpard. Also, Gorebyss's Hidden Power used to be Fighting, which... didn't cover much. Of course, it did have it's uses, so Electric is a temporary thing.

 

[Jacobzilla]

Hey there, nice team! I have one issue with your team and that's your use of Alomomola. Alomomola is rather slow for a swift swim based team and without damp rock, it can be rather hard for alomomola to help keep rain up and might end up being dead weight. I feel like Damp Rock Prankster Volbeat might be a better choice. With Prankster, volbeat can set up Rain Dance immediately, and can then baton pass either a substitute or tail glow to one of your swift swim sweepers. Here's the set:

[pimg]313[/pimg]
Volbeat@ Damp Rock
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Def/ 8 Spd
Bold Nature
-Rain Dance
-Substitute/Tail Glow
-Encore/Thunder Wave
-Baton Pass

I have found that Substitute is generally more useful on a rain team, as ludicolo and gorebyss could use the protection from a sub more than they need a boost from Tail Glow. Encore is used to really screw pokemon over and force switches, and Thunder Wave can be used to make sweeping even easier for your swift swim abusers. Unfortunately, Volbeat will increase your weakness to Rock, but I believe the benefits are worth it. Good luck with your team!

 

[Governess]

This is a nice looking rain team. Though, I have a few suggestions.

-Your biggest threat is Ludicolo itself atm. In Rain, it will just sweep through everything on your team, as it is mostly weak to water. I'd suggest Rotom-F over Alomomola. Alomomola doesn't serve a just purpose on this team, from my observation, and with Rotom-F, you can use the weather to your advantage. Here is my advised set:

Rotom-Fan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Air Slash
- Volt Switch
- Trick
This set allows Rotom F to outspeed Ludicolo, and defeat it with Air Slash, along with the spam of 100% accuracy Thunder. Volt Switch to keep momentum, and Trick to cripple opponents.

-Hidden Power [Grass] > Hidden Power [Fighting], due to the fact that Fighting doesn't really help Gorebyss that much, and Grass will let it handle other water types.

-Life Orb > Leftovers; simply because with LO, Ludicolo becomes a much bigger threat, and can be a devastating sweeper. Leftovers should be used with Rain Dish.

That's all I have. Hopefully, the team turns out good! :)

[EDIT: Just realized someone said the same change as mine xD Volbeat would be a nice add in, like zilla said, and if that's the case, you may want to replace Lapras with that, with Rotom F replacing Alomomola.]

 

[Shuckleking87]

2 quick things that I saw
1. Liepard rapes this team. Just like it rapes every team in NU. All jokes aside, Rock Blast should be used on armaldo over stone edge.
2. Scarfed electrics do heavy damage to this team, so I would suggest Seismetoad over Alomomola/Lapras. Seismetoad is a great poke under rain, and can set up rocks if needed, sub, or flat out attack with decent special attack and good bulk.

Also, Floatzel is flat out superior to Beartic. With stab waterfall and aqua jet, and with crunch and ice punch to finish the set, is more reliable and does not worry about stealth rocks as much. But with either poke, Life Orb is the better option. Choice locking yourself with a rain counter is not ideal, and the damage output is not that different between life orb and choice band. I would suggest Life Orb Floatzel over Beartic and Choice Band/Scarf Sawk over Lapras. The current Lapras set doesn't do much for your team, and heal bell support really isn't necessary. Lapras is better suited not on a dedicated rain team, and rain stall in nu isn't viable. Sawk can solve regice problems.

Suggested Changes
Armaldo--> Rock blast over stone edge
Beartic--> Life orb Floatzel>Banded Floatzel with switcheroo>Life orb Beartic
Alomomola--> Swift Swim Seismetoad
Gorebyss-->Timid>Modest
Ludicolo-->Maybe signal beam over rain dance for other ludicolo, but probably not
Lapras--> Choice Scarf/Band Sawk

Edit: Governess Rotom also works

 

[Mattman324]

@Jacobzilla: If I put Alomomola off the team, then my team is horribly destroyed by Sawk (admittedly, it still hates Band Sawk, but so does every other NU team without a ghost). Volbeat doesn't help the offensive presence. Plus, I lose wishpassing, which is vital for lategames sometimes.

@Governess: Your set does not allow for another setup mon for Rain Dance, and if anything, an Alomomola replacement needs it - though admittedly, a Rotom-F of some variety would probably help this team. I'll have to think on that. Also, I have only ever even considered the use of a Life Orb to be handy ONCE, and Leftovers comes a lot more useful often - Ludicolo still can kill damn near everything without help, especially with the HP recovered by Giga Drain and Lefties. As for HP grass... I was not using it as that would be to similar to Ludicolo, but now that I think of it, you do have a point in that it needs more coverage. I think a different route is the way to go though, specifically HP Electric.

@Shuckleking: Some of your ideas are good, but others fall flat.

ARMALDO: That's... a great idea. How did I not think of that? ROCK BLAST over STONE EDGE is now on.

BEARTIC: LOTic wouldn't do nearly as much, and Floatzel doesn't have Superpower. Having an Ice Type as opposed to a Water Type helps variety, even if only a little (the only Scarved Electric pokemon Beartic fears under the rain is Electrode, and if I ever see a scarved electrode I'll eat my shoe.)

ALOMOMOLA: Again, losing this makes me die to Sawk. Miserably.

GOREBYSS: With a Shell Smash and Swift Swim, I end up outspeeding everything anyway, and Modest helps a lot when it's only Swift Swim around.

LUDICOLO: Eh, RD has had it's uses. Lapras can pretty well beat Ludicolo anyway, because in the rain, it can't outdo the Rests fast enough. Oh, and Beartic can either OHKO it or close to it with Icycle Crash.

LAPRAS: Ha. The idea of losing this to a pokemon that doesn't benefit from the rest of the team is laughable. Lapras is by and large the BEST rain setter up in the tier (Aside from prankster stuff), can solve any and all special threats, CAN beat Regice (it's difficult, but not impossible. It can OUTSTALL regice though), and has proven vital to my wins on many occasions. Heal Bell is EXTREMELY important, contrawise to what you believe, because a single Thunder Wave on Ludicolo, Beartic, or Gorebyss will end my team if not prepared for.

The main problem I have with your changes, in the end, is that you leave me one semi-reliable Rain Dance setup mon in Seismitoad, and if that dies I'm up shit creek without a paddle. Remember, Rain is not a permanent weather, and without a Damp Rocker, it only lasts for three turns of a sweep (the setup and switch turn counted).




CHANGES:

ARMALDO: Now knows ROCK BLAST instead of Stone Edge.

GOREBYSS: HP Change to Electric.

 

[JCM.]

I highly recommend HP Grass > HP Electric because Seismitoad walls you (Except for Ice Beam), and you're exchanging it for hitting Mantine, a Pokemon that is much more rare. I also suggest Life Orb > Lefties on Ludicolo because it will get you some extra kills. I actually recommend keeping Beartic so you don't stack an Electric and Grass weaknesses, and he isn't even bad at all.

 

[Shuckleking87]

@Jacobzilla: If I put Alomomola off the team, then my team is horribly destroyed by Sawk (admittedly, it still hates Band Sawk, but so does every other NU team without a ghost). Volbeat doesn't help the offensive presence. Plus, I lose wishpassing, which is vital for lategames sometimes.

ALOMOMOLA: Again, losing this makes me die to Sawk. Miserably.

Alomomola is 2HKO by Choice band close combat sawk. Even if you protect, you still have a risky chance of being 2hko, which probably isn't worth the risk. I would say that your sheer offensive pressure from your team could handle sawk--sike! Choice scarf Sawk outspeeds everyone on your team even under rain except ludicolo. You don't want to be in a guessing game figuring out what sawk it is at the expense of a dead poke.

@Governess: Your set does not allow for another setup mon for Rain Dance, and if anything, an Alomomola replacement needs it - though admittedly, a Rotom-F of some variety would probably help this team. I'll have to think on that. Also, I have only ever even considered the use of a Life Orb to be handy ONCE, and Leftovers comes a lot more useful often - Ludicolo still can kill damn near everything without help, especially with the HP recovered by Giga Drain and Lefties. As for HP grass... I was not using it as that would be to similar to Ludicolo, but now that I think of it, you do have a point in that it needs more coverage. I think a different route is the way to go though, specifically HP Electric.

You can use the rain dance set on rotom-s, or rotom-f if you want.

: LOTic wouldn't do nearly as much, and Floatzel doesn't have Superpower. Having an Ice Type as opposed to a Water Type helps variety, even if only a little (the only Scarved Electric pokemon Beartic fears under the rain is Electrode, and if I ever see a scarved electrode I'll eat my shoe.)

Scarfed electrics that can outspeed Beaertic: Electabuzz, Emolga(not common) Raichu, Rotom-f, Rotom-s, Zebstrika. Not that all of these pokes can take you out necessarily, but with stealth rocks, plus volt switching in to pokes that you may pick the wrong move because you were expecting the electric poke to stay in or a different poke when volt-switching, and you're stuck. Because you do not have a strong move under rain that has a high chance to flinch. Choice Banded Floatzel OHKO Regice under rain with stealth rocks. And either way, why would regice stay in on a beartic, most players know beartic run superpower, it's on its standard set. Waterfall does only OHKO Regice with life orb 30% of the time. If you run Beartic, you should at least have life orb.

GOREBYSS: With a Shell Smash and Swift Swim, I end up outspeeding everything anyway, and Modest helps a lot when it's only Swift Swim around.

Well with a shell smash, of course you will outspeed everything. It is difficult, however, to actually get off a shell smash, and you should not assume that you will use shell smash. Modest is fine though. Just accept you will outspeed and killed by Choice Scarfed Sawk and Rotom-S/F.

LUDICOLO: Eh, RD has had it's uses. Lapras can pretty well beat Ludicolo anyway, because in the rain, it can't outdo the Rests fast enough. Oh, and Beartic can either OHKO it or close to it with Icycle Crash.

What? Lapras can handle Ludicolo when Lapras only runs surf? That is one of the most absurd things I ever heard. Ok, what happens when the rain dies? Then your surfing strategy stinks even more. Hydro Pump also kills Beartic out of rain after rocks, and surf or hydro pump can kill under rain. So Beartic is a terrible idea. Though, its a better option than floatzel, as floatzel outspeeds yet cannot ko, while ludicolo can with giga drain. Beartic is only beneficial against grass types though. All this being said, run rain dance on ludicolo, signal beam is too much of a hipster move anyway.

LAPRAS: Ha. The idea of losing this to a pokemon that doesn't benefit from the rest of the team is laughable. Lapras is by and large the BEST rain setter up in the tier (Aside from prankster stuff), can solve any and all special threats, CAN beat Regice (it's difficult, but not impossible. It can OUTSTALL regice though), and has proven vital to my wins on many occasions. Heal Bell is EXTREMELY important, contrawise to what you believe, because a single Thunder Wave on Ludicolo, Beartic, or Gorebyss will end my team if not prepared for.

Sawk would be a great member for you team. It's the best pokemon in the tier (I think) or it's at least a top 3 poke. I don't understand why sawk wouldn't work, because it doesnt need rain dance? Having a team in which every poke relies on rain dance is not a good rain team, unless there is permanent rain. As most rain dance sweepers are special attackers, Sawk is a great candidate to decimate the most commom special walls (mostly, lickilicky and regice) that can handle your team, so your rain pokes can come in and finish the job. I do not know what is so funny about the suggestion.
Lapras can outstall regice is up there in one of the most ridiculous things I've seen. Lapras does 20-24% with surf under rain, a 4-5 HKO with leftovers, while Regice does 31-36% with thunderbolt, a probable 3HKO because of a lack of leftovers. THunderbolt also has 8PP more than rest if you want to go there. Not a great matchup at all, you're just asking for a crit. And the stall war isnt worth it when you can just kill with sawk.

The main problem I have with your changes, in the end, is that you leave me one semi-reliable Rain Dance setup mon in Seismitoad, and if that dies I'm up shit creek without a paddle. Remember, Rain is not a permanent weather, and without a Damp Rocker, it only lasts for three turns of a sweep (the setup and switch turn counted).

Well I had 2 pokes with rain dance, with seismetoad having damp rock (of course I know the mechanics). I also did not see the Rotom rain dance option, which is a good one. Considering this, and somewhat going with the basis of this team, my team would look like:

Armaldo-->Rotom-S with Rain Dance
Beartic-->Floatzel
Alomomola-->Seismetoad with Rain Dance, stealth Rock, hydro pump and earthpower/sludge wave
Gorebyss
Ludicolo
Lapras-->Sawk

So there are 2 damp rock users and ludicolo with rain dance.

EDIT: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu11410383
FLoatzel for the win

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

I normally don't rate NU teams, but this one caught my eye. You have a glaring weakness to Gardevoir. After Rocks, Gardevoir can 2HKO every member of your team with the right move, even your special wall is demolished (although that is trusting on Focus Miss), and if it traces Swift Swim, it can turn your rain against yourself. You could try to hydraRest, but one time the rain will cease and you'll be forced to attack or use Rain or rest. The most dangerous variation would be the Choice Scarf one, since nothing you have can switch on any move, and it becomes more dangerous if it traces Swift Swim. Also, offensive Grass-types such as Cacturne, Exeggutor and Ludicolo are a real pain. Cacturne can set up on your defensive core and in Beartic if you lock yourself on the wrong move. Then nothing will be able to handle a +2 Sucker Punch / Seed Bomb. Exeggutor, especially the Sunny Day variant, gets rid of rain while decimates every member of your team with SolarBeam and Psychic. Finally, Ludicolo has a free time against your team. Fighting-types such as Gurdurr and Sawk are also troublesome, as are fast Electric-types such as Scarf Electabuzz and Scarf Zebstrika really dent your team.

I'd suggest Metang over Lapras to help you handle Gardevoir and offensive Grass-types better. Metang brings key resistances to Grass, Normal and Rock your team lacks and desperately needs, and can deal with Sawk; as a 252 Atk Adamant Meteor Mash has 12.5 chance of OHKOing Sawk after it uses Close Combat (Banded Close Combat CAN'T OHKO Metang) and it OHKOes with Zen Headbutt. Metang can also deal with Electabuzz and Zebstrika: while both 3HKO the mighty Steel-type with their strongest STAB moves, Metang demolishes all with Earthquake.

Alomomola also doesn't seem be fine on this team. It has so much weakness that matches with the other members of your team and is a set-up bait. Why don't you try Life Orb Gardevoir over it? It's a nice answer to Fighting-types and opposite Ludicolo since she outspeeds the mexican plant b tracing Swift Swim and kill it. Against Electric-types that have LightningRod Gardevoir also does wonderfully. I would recommend one with Healing Wish to help one of your sweepers if they're low on health.

By using SR in Metang you have the option of running Aqua Tail instead of Stealth Rock on Armaldo. Aqua Tail acts like a pseudo-STAB on rain that lets Armaldo deal easier with Probopass, Bastiodon, Golem, Regirock, and Golurk. I still think you could run Seismitoad over Armaldo. Seismitoad can revenge kill Ludicolo with Sludge Wave, but that is up to you. Also, remember to make Timid > Modest Nature on both Ludicolo and Gorebyss. Modest Ludicolo is outsped by max Speed Adamant Unburden Drifblim, and Scarf Electric-types such as Electabuzz and Zebstrika. And as Shuckleking87 said, it's hard to get a SS from Gorebyss since the metagame adapted to beat it.

Summary of changes

Metang > Lapras
Gardevoir > Alomomola
Optional: Seismitoad > Armaldo

Metang @ Eviolite | Clear Body
Adamant | 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash / Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

Gardevoir @ Life Orb | Trace
Timid | 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Signal Beam / Shadow Ball
- Healing Wish

Seismitoad @ Life Orb | Swift Swim
Timid | 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spd
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

Armaldo (if keeping him): Aqua Tail > Stealth Rock
Ludicolo and Gorebyss: Timid > Modest
Also follow JirachiCelebiMew's suggestion

 

[Mattman324]

Alomomola is 2HKO by Choice band close combat sawk. Even if you protect, you still have a risky chance of being 2hko, which probably isn't worth the risk. I would say that your sheer offensive pressure from your team could handle sawk--sike! Choice scarf Sawk outspeeds everyone on your team even under rain except ludicolo. You don't want to be in a guessing game figuring out what sawk it is at the expense of a dead poke.

Except Alomomola can always switch into it, I can tell from the damage what it has, and if it has a Choice Scarf, Alomomola can easily handle it. And if it has a Scarf? Set the rain up, get it out (not hard to do, Sawk hate getting hit at all), and when it comes in again, Gorebyss can set up and sweep. I've seen it happen time and time again. And either no Sawk has a scarf, or I outspeed it every time.

You can use the rain dance set on rotom-s, or rotom-f if you want.

I could, but that would deny the point of that specific set.

Scarfed electrics that can outspeed Beaertic: Electabuzz, Emolga(not common) Raichu, Rotom-f, Rotom-s, Zebstrika. Not that all of these pokes can take you out necessarily, but with stealth rocks, plus volt switching in to pokes that you may pick the wrong move because you were expecting the electric poke to stay in or a different poke when volt-switching, and you're stuck. Because you do not have a strong move under rain that has a high chance to flinch. Choice Banded Floatzel OHKO Regice under rain with stealth rocks. And either way, why would regice stay in on a beartic, most players know beartic run superpower, it's on its standard set. Waterfall does only OHKO Regice with life orb 30% of the time. If you run Beartic, you should at least have life orb.

For whatever reason, you always account for Stealth Rocks. I have a Rapid Spinner. A reliable Spinner at that. I spend at least 25% of my games without the stones ever even coming up, and about 50% of them getting the stones down eventually, with at least enough time to do something before it comes back up, or in some cases making it not come back up.

Well with a shell smash, of course you will outspeed everything. It is difficult, however, to actually get off a shell smash, and you should not assume that you will use shell smash. Modest is fine though. Just accept you will outspeed and killed by Choice Scarfed Sawk and Rotom-S/F.

I have never had a problem getting up a Shell Smash. I could honestly say almost all of my matches either have a Shell Smash in them or don't get to the point where I need Gorebyss (though the latter is rare)

What? Lapras can handle Ludicolo when Lapras only runs surf? That is one of the most absurd things I ever heard. Ok, what happens when the rain dies? Then your surfing strategy stinks even more. Hydro Pump also kills Beartic out of rain after rocks, and surf or hydro pump can kill under rain. So Beartic is a terrible idea. Though, its a better option than floatzel, as floatzel outspeeds yet cannot ko, while ludicolo can with giga drain. Beartic is only beneficial against grass types though. All this being said, run rain dance on ludicolo, signal beam is too much of a hipster move anyway.

Oh, you seem to have some understanding that "Handling" involves directly killing. It doesn't. Ludicolo CANNOT kill Lapras quick enough for it to get back to full health, have rain up in full, and switch out to something else (like Beartic, or more likely Ludicolo, who can take hits because of the Leftovers)

Sawk would be a great member for you team. It's the best pokemon in the tier (I think) or it's at least a top 3 poke. I don't understand why sawk wouldn't work, because it doesnt need rain dance? Having a team in which every poke relies on rain dance is not a good rain team, unless there is permanent rain. As most rain dance sweepers are special attackers, Sawk is a great candidate to decimate the most commom special walls (mostly, lickilicky and regice) that can handle your team, so your rain pokes can come in and finish the job. I do not know what is so funny about the suggestion.

As you aptly put it earlier, what Regice and Lickylicky stays in on a Sawk? And neither of those are even somewhat threats to me, as I either have Beartic to smash them both (Floatzel cannot OHKO Lickylicky, unless I'm blissfully unaware of something), or occasionally Armaldo to outdo them.

Lapras can outstall regice is up there in one of the most ridiculous things I've seen. Lapras does 20-24% with surf under rain, a 4-5 HKO with leftovers, while Regice does 31-36% with thunderbolt, a probable 3HKO because of a lack of leftovers. THunderbolt also has 8PP more than rest if you want to go there. Not a great matchup at all, you're just asking for a crit. And the stall war isnt worth it when you can just kill with sawk.

Yeah, I only do 20%. And eventually, no matter what, because I have a free full recovery in Hydrorest, it is forced into Resting, at which point I can switch in Beartic or Armaldo to kill it. And the argument that Sawk can switch in is ridiculous, it is WORSE at getting into Regice than Beartic.

Well I had 2 pokes with rain dance, with seismetoad having damp rock (of course I know the mechanics). I also did not see the Rotom rain dance option, which is a good one. Considering this, and somewhat going with the basis of this team, my team would look like:

Armaldo-->Rotom-S with Rain Dance
Beartic-->Floatzel
Alomomola-->Seismetoad with Rain Dance, stealth Rock, hydro pump and earthpower/sludge wave
Gorebyss
Ludicolo
Lapras-->Sawk

So there are 2 damp rock users and ludicolo with rain dance.

Ok, the problems I have with your team are manifold:

1: Every problem you have with Lapras or Alomomola or whatever else is multiplied in Seismetoad. Sure, I gain an electric immune. Big deal. I also lose even MORE to Ludicolo, and now I have absolutely no pokemon to do it, because the best option you gave me is MAULED by Ice Beam!

2: Armaldo is something I prefer because it sets up stones and Rapid Spins, as well as provides a useful group of Physical attacks and a partial Swagpard counter (well, as well as something that isn't Lickylicky can be a Swagpard counter that is).

3: Sawk is a great pokemon, and every team has some way to handle it (as well as it can be handled). Sawk has counters everywhere in the tier, wheras the group I have are more sparsely countered (discounting the idea of Ludicolo)

4: The idea of Floatsel would be good if I had something to take Grass moves. And I don't, expecially now that you ran out my one decent special attack taking mon. Beartic provides something for Grass types, and considering the quality of those in the tier, keeping it is damn near required. If Amoongus was still in the tier, you wouldn't question it, but even without the shroom there are plenty of Grass types around - Roselia, Tangela, Exeggutor, the lot.

5: Your team has no special counters at all. One fast Special Sweeper can smash that team into bits, expecially something like Scarved Gardevoir. Meanwhile, just about no special attacker can break through Lapras.

 

[Chieliee]

Having faced this team on the ladder twice today (winning one, losing one), I can say that it's definitely a good team. Cacturne is a pain in the ass though (if played well, that is), and Stealth Rocks hurt too, especially with your spinner taking 1/4th HP each time you come in.

That is why i recommend any Sawsbuck set over Beartic. They do roughly the same thing, being fast and hitting hard. Meanwhile, Sawsbuck with Nature Power is a hard counter to cacturne. It's also useful for absorbing all the grass/electric attacks that will be thrown at this team

i suck at rating i know, but just my 2 cents.

 

[WhiteDMist]

OK, so I've tested this team to see what makes it different from other Rain teams, and I can say one definite thing: it's confused. While it seems great initially, your team tries to be both offensive and defensive, something that a Rain team just doesn't do well. Weather in NU generally needs to be as offensive as possible to make the most out of the limited time their respective weather is up. So while the changes I'll suggest may seem boring and uninventive, remember that our job as raters is to help improve your team.

Beartic really appreciates a Life Orb instead of a Choice Band. Because it is your strongest physical attacker, it really wants to be able to switch up moves at will, especially for a final Aqua Jet.

The way you EV your Armaldo set confuses me. Without investment in both HP and Def, it isn't really going to wall many physical hits better. Likewise, without investment in Atk, the damage it inflicts is mostly petty if it isn't super effective. Since Rain likes offense, I suggest moving the HP EVs into Atk and giving it an Adamant Nature. With Swift Swim, it becomes a very effective Stealth Rock setter, and if you are lucky it can even Rapid Spin if/when your opponent lacks a Ghost type. You still can't get past Golurk or Misdreavus/Frillish without Aqua Tail/SD but Armaldo is meant mainly for setting up Rock, not Rapid Spinning so the point is moot.

Gorebyss has a few options for its Hidden Power type, so either Grass or Electric would be fine. Signal Beam is another move it can use to destroy opposing Ludicolo who otherwise decimates your team if your own Ludicolo is weakened. Also, a Timid nature is preferable in order to guarantee that you outspeed +Spe base 85s in Rain or after a Smash. You DON'T want a Scarf Sawk to KO your weakened Gorebyss just because of that little boost in power right?

Now, instead of Alomomola who completely slows down your teams offensive presence, I suggest Volbeat in its stead. With good physical bulk to partially take CB Sawk's Close Combats and a very useful ability in Prankster Rain, it is a FAR better supporter for your team that also doesn't stack types. With a slow U-turn, it also lets you get in a sweeper for free, meaning that you don't waste quite as many Rain turns which are precious. It's not like Alomomola does anything for your team besides pass large Wishes, which are an open invitation for your opponent to hit them on the switch-in.

For Lapras, I find that it has the same problem as Alomomola: it slows down your team and wastes Rain turns trying to wall the opponent rather than using the Rain to power through them. It doesn't even tank them, which involves being able to hit back; thus it literally just sits there Resting while becoming set-up bait for multitudes of Grass-types. I like the idea of Seismitoad for that team slot because your team should no longer fear opposing Ludicolo as much with the addition of Volbeat and possibly Signal Beam Gorebyss after a Smash/on predicted switch in. I also like a more offensive Seismitoad EV spread so that it can continue to ravage opponents, but instead of Swift Swim I suggest Water Absorb as the ability of choice. This is more practical because you already have multiple Swift Swim users, and your don't want your opponent to return fire Rain boosted Water moves at your with no way to deal with it. This also let's you utterly wall most Rotom-A sets and most physical Water-types.

This is optional, but Ludicolo usually prefers a Timid nature and Lfe Orb. Leftovers is alright but it requires a Modest nature to make up for the lack of power and is outsped by opposing Ludicolo more often than not. Usually in these scenarios, whichever Ludicolo manages to hit the other on the switch-in/have more HP remaining when they confront each other wins regardless of your Leftovers.

Changes:

Beartic: Life Orb>Choice Band
Armaldo: Offensive>Defensive
Volbeat>Alomomola
Seismitoad>Lapras

Sets

Volbeat @ Damp Rock
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn

Seismitoad @ Damp Rock
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Toxic/Substitute/Sludge Wave

Now, some words of advice: don't worry so much about your opponent's offensive threats. In the Rain, your offensive prowess is more than enough to go toe to toe with them and usually come out on top. As for things that wall your attacks, that is why I tell you to max the power of your team as much as you can. I've also added an extra Damp Rock Rain setter so that you can have long lasting Rain consistently, with Ludicolo being back-up. If you don't understand my changes, ask and I'll answer. Excuse the other raters for not rating (yet?), but Rain teams don't exactly strike one's attention easily.