SV OU Rain Manaphy Team, peak 1500. Looking for suggestions to improve this team and make it stronger!

So, back in the days of XYORAS, Manaphy Rain was one of my favorite team archetypes. I loved the small goofy tech of running Rest so Hydration would instantly wake up Manaphy after the full heal, and who doesn't love getting 3 special attack boosts in one turn with Tail Glow? Unfortunately, I skipped out on USUM, and Manaphy was not in SWSH when I did return to playing Showdown. I very much missed the little raindrop, and seeing it return with the Teal Mask DLC truly made my day, and so I instantly jumped at the chance to build a new rain team with the stronger rain setter in Pelipper to more easily crush teams with Manaphy. That said...I found decent success with my current team, but it feels as though something's...missing. Thus, I turn to the RMT forums to hopefully get some feedback to make my team as strong as it can be!

So, let's start with the full team.

pelipper.gif
manaphy.gif
basculegion.gif
zapdos.gif
irontreads.png
hatterene.gif


And here are the sets and descriptions for each:


pelipper.gif


Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hurricane
- Surf
- U-turn
- Roost


This is a pretty standard Pelipper set. Used for setting rain and pivoting to the rain sweepers, Pelipper is obviously a must-have for any rain team; he's kind of the entire basis of the archetype. Damp Rock for extending rain turns, minimum speed for a slow U-turn, Hurricane and Surf to threaten opposing pokemon and avoid being passive. Tera Ground helps for dodging Electric-type moves that would otherwise fry Pelipper, and is particularly good for baiting a Volt Switch and safely U-turning on it to gain momentum and bring in one of the hard hitters. I've considered switching Surf for Weather Ball as it's stronger in Rain, but I'm not big on the idea of losing my most reliable attacking move and Water STAB if the weather changes.

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manaphy.gif


Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Stored Power
- Rest
- Tail Glow


The star of the team and the entire reason I wanted to build Rain in this metagame. It's bulky, it's strong with a boost, and Rest under rain is undoubtedly one of the funniest things to me. I admit to changing the set recently; I initially ran a Tera Grass Manaphy with Energy Ball over Stored Power, but I changed it to Tera Fairy and Stored Power based on the current Sample team running Manaphy rain, and I've been liking it a fair bit. Surf is stronger than Scald, and though I see the value in fishing for burns, I would rather just take KOs outright than mess around and get punished. Stored Power hits hard after a Tail Glow, and hits like a truck after two Tail Glows. Rest under rain is a full heal with no drawback; I've used it to recover from tanking Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor and recover to full, among other things. It's just a good move, and one of my favorite choices for Manaphy.

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basculegion.gif


Basculegion @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Flip Turn
- Head Smash
- Aqua Jet


I love this pokemon. Swift Swim is one of my favorite things about Rain teams, and Basculegion uses it to great effect with a Choice Band. I went with Basculegion over Barraskewda because I like Basculegion's higher HP stat which allows it to take a hit in a pinch, unlike Barraskewda who folds to a slight breeze, as well as the power of Head Smash over something like Psychic Fangs or Close Combat, and finally the fact that it can't get revenged by a Dragonite Espeed, or the plethora of pokemon that now have access to Vacuum Wave. Tera Water for the strongest hits possible, Flip Turn to gain momentum, Head Smash to dome whatever thinks they can take a Wave Crash, and Aqua Jet to outspeed pokemon that are still faster in rain like Iron Valiant and Scarf Enamorus. That's my one issue with Basculegion over Barraskewda; even with Swift Swim, Basculegion still gets outsped by some prominent threats in the metagame.

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zapdos.gif


Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Weather Ball
- Volt Switch


Zapdos is another pokemon that sticks out in my mind as a powerhouse in rain teams, and it's something I've seen and wanted to use last generation, but I never really did. Between Hurricane, Thunder, and Weather Ball, there are few pokemon that Zapdos can't break through under rain, and I typically try to use Zapdos to break some holes in the enemy team so that Manaphy and Basculegion can exploit the opponents being weakened. Volt Switch is used to gain momentum. I had initially run Tera Electric over Tera Dragon for stronger Thunders and Volt Switches, but I never really terastallized my Zapdos so I've switched it to a more defensive typing for when it's needed.

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irontreads.png


Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Horsepower
- Iron Head
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin


A new addition to the team, I initially ran Great Tusk in this spot as I simply wanted hazard removal and an Electric switch-in, but...quite frankly, I fear Alolan Ninetales and its Freeze-Dry, so I went with Iron Treads instead, which can tank Freeze-Drys much more effectively. High Horsepower because I've seen a lot of Rillaboom usage higher on the ladder, and I want to be prepared for it. Iron Head is there so I can deal with Ninetales more easily for a 2HKO through Aurora Veil. Ice Spinner hits Flying types that would laugh at my Ground-type moves otherwise. Looking at you, Gliscor and Dragonite. Rapid Spin is there because I don't want Pelipper taking rocks chip, so I want hazards off my side of the field as much as possible. Tera Grass is useful for tanking Water-type hits and Ground-type hits when necessary, while still serving as a decent Electric switch-in.

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hatterene.gif


Hatterene @ Eject Button
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nuzzle
- Healing Wish


Hatterene is another new addition to my team, as I dislike the aforementioned hazards being on my side of the field, and Hatterene serves as a nice bulky pivot with Eject Button to more easily bring in my hard-hitters. I also appreciate the support in Nuzzle, as the rest of my team is a bit on the slower side, and Healing Wish can bring another pokemon back to dish out more damage, or save Pelipper to give more rain turns. In particular I like Hatterene's synergy with Basculegion, in theory; Nuzzle can slow down pokemon that might otherwise outspeed him, and Healing Wish can make up for the massive recoil moves Basculegion tends to click. Tera Steel helps to avoid Steel and Poison type hits, while also being able to tank Freeze-Dry more effectively. Could you tell I'm scared of Ninetales yet?

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With the team out of the way, here's what I perceive to be my biggest threats so far:

Walking Wake is very lethal to my team, since it comes in and clicks buttons and something usually gets hit hard, if not KO'd outright. My best option to play around it has seemed to be getting Manaphy in to tank with Rests, which isn't a great place to be to be honest.

Alolan Ninetales is one I've talked about during these summaries, and for good reason: Freeze-Dry shreds through so much of my team, and without Iron Treads to threaten it with Iron Head it kind of just clowns on me. Encore is also really, really frustrating to deal with, since it can stop my Manaphy from setting up and healing with Rest by locking it into those moves.

Ogerpon-Wellspring is a pokemon many teams struggle to deal with, and mine is no different. With rain powering up its already ridiculously-strong Ivy Cudgel, a faster speed stat than both Manaphy and Zapdos, and Water Absorb turning my Basculegion pathetically useless if I make a misstep, Waterpon is a massive threat to my team. Though Head Smash from Basculegion deals significant damage with a 56% chance to OHKO, it's not entirely unbeatable, though it usually comes at the cost of one of my pokemon.

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So, that's my team, and what I look to improve upon it. I would love to hear whatever suggestions you all could give me, and hopefully my team will change for the better in the end! Thank you all for reading.​
 
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I think this team can go far if you change a few things. when I was running Charizard rain (don't ask) I learned a lot about rain and what mons fit well, first of all, I would change out one of the iron treads moves for volt switch because rain is a very hyper-aggressive playstyle and will benefit from a pivot. this will also allow you to volt switch out after you take an electric move aimed at peliper and switch into a hard hitter in response.

Next, since you have an iron treads with rapid spin theoretically you can spin all the hazards away bypassing the need for hatterene leaving room for another rain abuser. you could go more exotic with the aforementioned Charizard (don't) or you could go with another swift swim mon like berraskewda or a hard hitter like Walking Wake. i would recommend Berraskewda as it will be beneficial in outspending things since basculegion won't outspeed a booster iron valiant. Walking Wake would fulfill the same role (kind of) as Manaphy with hard-hitting special water moves.

possible walking wake set

Walking Wake @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf

as for the weaknesses of the team;

1. ogerpon water
all rain teams are at least somewhat weak to ogerpon personly headsmash on basculegion or if it hasn't gotten a swords dance yet zapdos should always live an ivy cudgel in rain (at like 10% but it lives) there are not many Pokemon that fit on rain that have a good matchup vs ogerpon wellspring so just back yourself to outplay and hope for the best is what i did.

2 alolan ninetales
you could try a gholdengo instead of the berraskewda above and run scarf this should also help with the ogerpon matchup a little too. having a weather setter is amazing vs ninetales since it will deny veil its just a lot of positioning to make sure they don't get it up and you don't lose your peliper.

3 walking wake
I'm guessing this is on sun, so the gholdengo from above would be a good Draco switch in but die to every other move a good option is Azumarill to wall the walking wake with either choice band to hit even harder or Assault vest to take the hits better it should flip the bad matchup into a free liquidation or playrugh into their team.

hope this helps :D
 
I don’t love rain in the current Meta. The problem is more defensive than offensive. I agree with some of the post above. Get rid of Hatterene.

For starters, make Pelipper full special defense and Tera Steel. This flips the Ninetales-A matchup. Physical Defense Pelipper is bad right now.. it only walls Cinderace.

Basculegion should be Jolly, to outspeed Booster Val. There is no need for Barraskewda, as that is redundant.

As much as I like Zapdos as a mon and in rain, I don’t love It in this Meta. It loses to Ogerpon-W and only speed ties with Manaphy. I’d suggest using either Tornadus-T (faster than ogerpon) or Thundurs-T (faster than Manaphy). Also, consider using your own Ogerpon-W instead of Manaphy. I think it is better right now as a breaker since it beats Dondozo easier than Manaphy beats Blissey. Ogerpon also checks opposing Manaphy and helps a lot in rain mirrors and vs. Walking Wake (you can bait Draco’s into Treads all day).

Also.. very important. You need a Kingambit check. This is gambit’s meta. Right now he just waits for 5 fallen and beats you. It’s difficult for rain.. but there are a few options- Samourott-H, Quaquaval, Poliwrath, Crawdaunt, your own Gambit with Low Kick, or the standard Great Tusk.
 
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I don’t love rain in the current Meta. The problem is more defensive than offensive. I agree with some of the post above. Get rid of Hatterene.

For starters, make Pelipper full special defense and Tera Steel. This flips the Ninetales-A matchup. Physical Defense Pelipper is bad right now.. it only walls Cinderace.

Basculegion should be Jolly, to outspeed Booster Val. There is no need for Barraskewda, as that is redundant.

As much as I like Zapdos as a mon and in rain, I don’t love It in this Meta. It loses to Ogerpon-W and only speed ties with Manaphy. I’d suggest using either Tornadus-T (faster than ogerpon) or Thundurs-T (faster than Manaphy). Also, consider using your own Ogerpon-W instead of Manaphy. I think it is better right now as a breaker since it beats Dondozo easier than Manaphy beats Blissey. Ogerpon also checks opposing Manaphy and helps a lot in rain mirrors and vs. Walking Wake (you can bait Draco’s into Treads all day).

Also.. very important. You need a Kingambit check. This is gambit’s meta. Right now he just waits for 5 fallen and beats you. It’s difficult for rain.. but there are a few options- Samourott-H, Quaquaval, Poliwrath, Crawdaunt, your own Gambit with Low Kick, or the standard Great Tusk.

Can't forget Ting Lu with the proper Tera, but I digress. I think it might also be worth it to drop treads and find another fairy res honestly, I don't think it's doing much here as it is. To boot, Amoonguss could be a worthwhile change also with Eject Button and woger, which leaves a little bit of wiggle room. I'm very novice when it comes to building this gen so take it with a grain of salt, just a thought.
 
I don’t love rain in the current Meta. The problem is more defensive than offensive. I agree with some of the post above. Get rid of Hatterene.

For starters, make Pelipper full special defense and Tera Steel. This flips the Ninetales-A matchup. Physical Defense Pelipper is bad right now.. it only walls Cinderace.

Basculegion should be Jolly, to outspeed Booster Val. There is no need for Barraskewda, as that is redundant.

As much as I like Zapdos as a mon and in rain, I don’t love It in this Meta. It loses to Ogerpon-W and only speed ties with Manaphy. I’d suggest using either Tornadus-T (faster than ogerpon) or Thundurs-T (faster than Manaphy). Also, consider using your own Ogerpon-W instead of Manaphy. I think it is better right now as a breaker since it beats Dondozo easier than Manaphy beats Blissey. Ogerpon also checks opposing Manaphy and helps a lot in rain mirrors and vs. Walking Wake (you can bait Draco’s into Treads all day).

Also.. very important. You need a Kingambit check. This is gambit’s meta. Right now he just waits for 5 fallen and beats you. It’s difficult for rain.. but there are a few options- Samourott-H, Quaquaval, Poliwrath, Crawdaunt, your own Gambit with Low Kick, or the standard Great Tusk.

I like a lot of your reasonings. I definitely think I'll try Pelipper, first of all, flipping the Defense and Special Defense EVs and going with Sassy over Relaxed.

Basculegion would be much weaker with Jolly over Adamant, wouldn't it? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Then again, Valiant is a problem...I just don't love the idea of losing out on kills I would otherwise easily grab with Basculegion.

Zapdos losing to Ogerpon is a big reason I switched to Tera Dragon, since it can take a hit from either STAB and kill it in return with a Hurricane. But forcing Tera to beat Ogerpon isn't a fantastic place to be, I admit...I have to think more about switching out Zapdos.

I love Ogerpon, but I'm not huge on the idea of switching Manaphy out...it's the whole reason I wanted to play Rain in the first place, after all. Then again, I've thought about the same thing, switching Manaphy for Ogerpon. What set should I run on Ogerpon, if I were to switch it out?

Yeah, Hatterene is the part I'm most iffy about for this team. I could probably toss on a Kingambit of my own over the Hatterene slot. Tera Fairy, I'm guessing?
 
Can't forget Ting Lu with the proper Tera, but I digress. I think it might also be worth it to drop treads and find another fairy res honestly, I don't think it's doing much here as it is. To boot, Amoonguss could be a worthwhile change also with Eject Button and woger, which leaves a little bit of wiggle room. I'm very novice when it comes to building this gen so take it with a grain of salt, just a thought.

Treads is not only a fairy/dragon resistance, but it's also my hazard removal. I don't think there's much better that hits both of those.

EDIT: Treads is also my Electric switch-in, since I have so many electric-weak pokemon otherwise.
 
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I like a lot of your reasonings. I definitely think I'll try Pelipper, first of all, flipping the Defense and Special Defense EVs and going with Sassy over Relaxed.

Basculegion would be much weaker with Jolly over Adamant, wouldn't it? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Then again, Valiant is a problem...I just don't love the idea of losing out on kills I would otherwise easily grab with Basculegion.

Zapdos losing to Ogerpon is a big reason I switched to Tera Dragon, since it can take a hit from either STAB and kill it in return with a Hurricane. But forcing Tera to beat Ogerpon isn't a fantastic place to be, I admit...I have to think more about switching out Zapdos.

I love Ogerpon, but I'm not huge on the idea of switching Manaphy out...it's the whole reason I wanted to play Rain in the first place, after all. Then again, I've thought about the same thing, switching Manaphy for Ogerpon. What set should I run on Ogerpon, if I were to switch it out?

Yeah, Hatterene is the part I'm most iffy about for this team. I could probably toss on a Kingambit of my own over the Hatterene slot. Tera Fairy, I'm guessing?

I agree with everything here. That's why I don't like the meta right now for rain. These suggestions are all based on mons with high usage :(.

Yes, Jolly Bascu is a bit weaker. Unfortunately, Booster Val and Scarf Enamorous are common mons right now..

I love Manaphy too. It can actually lure out and beat Ogerpons. Unfortunately, nothing on your team as it is currently constructed can handle an opposing Ogerpon or Manaphy that gets a turn to set up. This is a good set for Ogerpon:

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip
- Swords Dance
- Substitute / Horn Leech

Power Whip is needed to OHKO Manaphy. For Gambit, use Jolly (to reliably check other Gambits) with any of the common Tera types. I use Tera Dark, to try to get some of the power back.

Kingambit @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Hope this helps!
 
So I've made some changes to my team, and I'd like some more advice.

Changes will be in bold:

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hurricane
- Surf
- U-turn
- Roost

This has been a great change so far. Being able to take more special-attacking hits is huge for the current meta game. I feel a lot more confident switching Pelipper in and out now, and I don't fear Ninetales nearly as much.


Kingambit @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance


This is my replacement for Hatterene and it's been working quite well so far. I've never feared Kingambit after slotting this Kingambit on the team, so I think this is working wonderfully for what it was meant to do.

I've tried Ogerpon-W on this team, but I've missed the higher bulk of Manaphy and how much faster it applies pressure to my opponents. Manaphy has consistently been my saving grace against the monster that is Ursaluna-BM too, since I can bring it in after another pokemon goes down and easily set up a Tail Glow to revenge it. It's worked out so far.

I've also tried Tornadus-T over Zapdos, and it just felt...really bad. It wasn't nearly as threatening as Zapdos is, despite being faster. I didn't try Thundurus-T because, while it does outspeed Manaphy, it also gets stomped by an Ivy Cudgel, unlike Zapdos which can at least sponge one hit with Tera Dragon if I preserve it.

Now, here's what I'm having issue with that I've noticed in today's testing:

Roaring Moon has been giving me grief as I have no real counterplay against it besides sacking Zapdos and hoping for a paralysis. It usually comes in and takes at least one pokemon from me with boosted Knock Offs.

Sticky Webs just absolutely derails my entire strategy if my opponent manages to get them up. I've been sticking with leading Iron Treads against any Ribombee team I've seen, and just trying to force the webs to stay off my side to the best of my ability. That said, I lost hard when my opponent's Ribombee tera Ghosted on my rapid spin. I'm thinking I could potentially still beat these teams by using up tera Grass to avoid the Stun Spore paralysis, but that's not exactly great.

Greninja has been a case where if it gets Battle Bond activated, it's an instant-lose for me, and I've lost multiple games today just to that frog alone. I'm not sure what I can do to remedy this; it just seems like I have to pressure Greninja with Basculegion whenever I think it might switch in. A rain-boosted Wave Crash KO's Greninja from full, at least, so that's a saving grace.

Ogerpon-Wellspring is still a menace, but, I think that's just a given with rain at this point. I'm not sure what else I can do that won't sacrifice the power of my team. Between preserving Zapdos to come in with a Tera Dragon, and Kingambit mindgames, though, it's not been unbeatable, just requires a lot more outplaying.

I didn't face any today, but I can only imagine Walking Wake would still shred my team apart.
 
Now, here's what I'm having issue with that I've noticed in today's testing:

Roaring Moon has been giving me grief as I have no real counterplay against it besides sacking Zapdos and hoping for a paralysis. It usually comes in and takes at least one pokemon from me with boosted Knock Offs.

Sticky Webs just absolutely derails my entire strategy if my opponent manages to get them up. I've been sticking with leading Iron Treads against any Ribombee team I've seen, and just trying to force the webs to stay off my side to the best of my ability. That said, I lost hard when my opponent's Ribombee tera Ghosted on my rapid spin. I'm thinking I could potentially still beat these teams by using up tera Grass to avoid the Stun Spore paralysis, but that's not exactly great.

Greninja has been a case where if it gets Battle Bond activated, it's an instant-lose for me, and I've lost multiple games today just to that frog alone. I'm not sure what I can do to remedy this; it just seems like I have to pressure Greninja with Basculegion whenever I think it might switch in. A rain-boosted Wave Crash KO's Greninja from full, at least, so that's a saving grace.

Ogerpon-Wellspring is still a menace, but, I think that's just a given with rain at this point. I'm not sure what else I can do that won't sacrifice the power of my team. Between preserving Zapdos to come in with a Tera Dragon, and Kingambit mindgames, though, it's not been unbeatable, just requires a lot more outplaying.

I didn't face any today, but I can only imagine Walking Wake would still shred my team apart.

Glad to know the first two changes worked! I don't know what can be done about the others. IMO, rain really needs Ferrothorn this gen. It has been the glue that makes the playstyle viable. You could try Water Absorb Clodsire and Gastrodon, but they are just... awful.

For Greninja, you can try Tera Water on Zapdos instead of Dragon. It can bait Surf or Ice Beam and kill.
 
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