Quagsire Lead, Oh yes.

lionsword7

lionsword7

If you are reading this, you must be thinking something along the lines of "What the ****? What moron uses Quagsire for a lead?" Well, you got one right here. This entire team was built around the legendary Quagsire and wins about 66% of its matches, but loses usually to poor predictions (example: Suiciding a Forretress against an Empoleon instead of switching in Quagsire).

Lead: Dun dun dun!
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Squishy the Quagsire @Focus Sash
Water Absorb
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Adamant
-Aqua Tail
-Earthquake
-Yawn
-Encore

Purpose: Now, this is the strangest thing about this team. Why use Quagsire when you could use the Swampert with Stealth Rock and superior stats? One: It has Water Absorb. This Squishy pokemon can come in with impunity to any water assault later in the game, which I notice that this team desperately needs. Also, it can have Damp to ruin any exploders, but unless I miss an Aqua Tail, all common leads are 2HKOed. Second: It's a mental shock. People don't know what to do against this odd creature, since this set is not listed on any site that I know of. It is one of the team's counters to Empoleon (Near complete counter if it lacks Grass Knot), Gyrados (Yawn), and any other water types. It is also a counter for nearly all forms of Rotom except C.

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Crunchy the Tyranitar @Choice Band
Sand Stream
180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Aqua Tail

Purpose: The standard Choice Band T-tar. This sets up the helpful sandstorm to which 5/6ths of my team is immune to. T-tar is one of two that provides the raw power to steamroll a team once checks are down and out due to other members. A simple explanation.

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Choppy the Scizor @Choice Band
Technician
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant
-Pursuit
-Bullet Punch
-Super Power
-U-turn
Purpose: One of two revenge killers, depending on the situation. Also a great scout against suspicious targets. I didn't run a SD one because I need the instant raw power of CB.

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Angry the Gyrados @Leftovers
Intimidate
156 HP/ 72 ATK/ 96 DEF/ 184 SPE
Adamant
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Taunt
-Waterfall
Purpose: Angry provides a much needed earthquake immunity and is a great check to Breloom after either a halfdead teammate or Squishy has absorbed Spore. He is also a check to set-up pokemon and stallers. He is also some needed bulk on this team.

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Zappy the Zapdos @Leftovers
Pressure
248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Ice
-Roost
-Heatwave
Purpose: Zapdos, one of two Machamp checks and another bulky pokemon (once I think about it, almost all of mine are bulky. >.>) He can check enemy Gyrados' that haven't DD yet and lack Stone Edge and also is a check to breloom. I do notice that he is also a lure for Heatran and Scizor, so I much switch out for different things.

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Buggy the Forretress @Leftoves/Occa Berry
Sturdy
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Careful
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Payback
-Earthquake
Purpose: He generally switches in after Squishy and sets up its own SR and Rapid Spins. He's also a nasty surprise for many since he has Earthquake which is unexpected. He's the "special" wall for this team, but also functions as a physical wall. Counters many things, but can be set up on.

Please don't advise me to remove Quagsire, since it has carried this team to victory often. And I like it. Once I think about it, this team is also a Sandstorm team. :D
 
I heavily approve of this team...

Other than that, it seems extremely weak to any CS heatran, as it can either flamethrower or earth power through all but Quagsire.
 
I'd give your Dugtrio max speed and a choice scarf in order to revenge a +2 Empoleon... I'll rate more when I have the time...
 
Instead of Scyther, have you thought of Bulky DDance Gyara? You have 3 revengers you say, so it would help. And you also resist electric 3 other times, and it takes care of ScarfTran which this team can't afford to deal with.
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
156 HP/ 72 ATK/ 96 DEF/ 184 SPE
Adamant
~Dragon Dance
~Taunt
~Waterfall
~Bounce

Bulky DDance Gyara is better than Offensive at almost everything. It dosen't have to worry about sandstorm or hail thanks to leftovers, and it dosen't have to worry about status due to taunt. Bounce is highly suggested because it stops Celebi and Breloom which both are threats to this team. It also kills Gliscor which can only be stopped by Quagsire.
 
I would recommend losing Dugtrio for a Scarf Flygon. It, unlike Dugtrio, it has enough speed and great type coverage to revenge kill things like Kingdra, Heatran, Tyranitar, Empoleon, Metagross, and Dragonite, even after their speed boosts. You don't really need two trappers and two Pursuiters. Plus it's a better scout than Scyther with U-Turn if Stealth Rock is set up.

On top of all that, it covers your Heatran weakness and gives you another needed Earthquake immunity.

The set is:
Flygon@Choice Scarf
Levitate
252 att/4 def/252 spe
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn
 
Donny Mae. said:
I'd give your Dugtrio max speed and a choice scarf in order to revenge a +2 Empoleon... I'll rate more when I have the time...
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Otherwise Lucario would slaughter me without that Def EV's. Quag can stop any empoleon missing a Grass Knot. Forretress can cripple with E-quake.

I'm going to try out that Flygon and Gyrados. Thanks guys, I'll get back to you soon.
 
lionsword7 said:
Otherwise Lucario would slaughter me without that Def EV's. Quag can stop any empoleon missing a Grass Knot. Forretress can cripple with E-quake.

I'm going to try out that Flygon and Gyrados. Thanks guys, I'll get back to you soon.
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modest subpetaya empoleon OHKO's Forretress with surf. flygon is better at revenging/stopping luke than dugtrio
 
Celebi is a massive headache for my new team if I include Scarfgon and BulkyDDGyra.

Okay, this is stupid. I can't stop any Machamps.
 
Quagsire looks alright, but I don't know how much it's really getting done. Swampert can run the exact same set (even Yawn), by the way, with better stats. He doesn't have Water Absorb, but as a lead neither of them get hit too often with Water attacks.

Encore is one asset you might want to consider over Protect since Fake Out isn't too common. Encore Stealth Rock, Yawn the switch. Only problem with that, really, is that you won't have SR up for the lead matchup, so you won't be racking up damage.

I would reconsider using 3 Choice Banders. Using a Scarfer is a great idea as they have much more revenging potential in a metagame that is characterized by speed.

First, I'll address Scyther. You do have a Rapid Spinner, but that's hard to rely on. I would suggest switching him for Scarfed Rotom-H, who can also switch in on Earthquakes and counter a number of things (Scizor, Lucario, yada) and cripple shit like Blissey with Trick.

Alternatively, use CB Scizor. He's got higher base attack than Scyther and takes 1x from SR rather than 4x. Scizor is also immune to Sand Storm.

If you're really set on using Scyther... Jolly, definitely. Maybe a few less speed EVs, but your target should be to outspeed +0 max speed base 100s, since Scyther has a valuable 105 base speed. Maybe even Scarf to hit scarfed base 100s (like Jirachi and Flygon... not sure about damage calcs but U-turn and Aerial Ace could probably deal a decent amount, respectively).

As for TTar... CBTar is an old set. I don't know how effective it is. Usually people use ScarfTar for his niche speed and revenging ability, but it's not really necessary if you opt for Scarf Rotom. I suppose you could keep him if he works for you and sets up Sand Storm, but I'd suggest giving some other TTar sets a try.

I find Dugtrio to be unnecessary. Gyarados would be a good substitute, as it compensates for your ground weakness and gives you something to set up in the late game. With Intimidate and resistance to Close Combat, it's also a decent check Lucario (though +1 Extremespeed/Stone Edge will do a number, the latter KOing). I typically like to run Life Orbed, very offensive versions, but with Sand Stream on Tar running a bulkier set with leftovers would probably be more effective. Bear in mind that without Earthquake you'll have to be careful about countering Lucario, since you'll probably take Close Combat on the switch, then 2 Extremespeeds if it hasn't been weakened, which I'm not sure you can take. So after you test BulkyGyara I'd say to go with a simple Jolly 4/252/252 spread with Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Stone Edge / Earthquake. The extra speed also allows you to outrun Jolteon (and stuff like ScarfTran) after a Dragon Dance, leaving you much less prone to revenging.
 
I'm really liking the Scizor.
I took out Dugtrio for the Jolly Gyra, and Scyther for the Scizor. Working a lot better now, thanks. :D Still having trouble with grass types like Shaymin and Celebi though.
Also, Infernape is a pain. Especially Thunderpunch ones.
 
O.K looking at your team at face value I don't like Forretress on the team. Its just setting up SR and so many other pokemon can do that. I also would prefer Swampert leading over Quagsire (sets up SR) but since the team was built around it I guess It can stay.

I agree how a Gyarados serves you better on this team over Dugtrio. It checks Lucario and can take Fire Attacks very well. I would heavily recomend Bulky Gyarados since if you run an offensive one you are losing 16% each time you attack (and maybe 25% on the switch in). Losing that much health means that Gyarados cannot actively stop Lucario nor switch in to repeated Fire moves.

With CB Tar you can get rid of DD Gyara's main counter, scarf Rotom, thus keep Tyranitar how it is.

If you do have Gyarados then I believe that Magnezone is not needed. This is because Gyarados sets up on Scizor very easily. I suggest testing a Zapdos over Magnezone. Zapdos gives you another earthquake immuninty and serves as a secondary check to Scizor (if for whatever reason Gyarados is not able to check it). Between Zapdos and Gyarados (though both are SR weak) you can both handle Machamp and also Celebi and Breloom.



Forretress I guess is fine since you have 2 pokemon weak to SR (if you take my changes). Personally I would prefer a Shuca Tran or something over Foreetress but you lose rapid spin then so I guess its up to you. Still Heatran does help you with Celebi and Shaymin so its up to you

Hope I helped

Have a Nice Day!
 
Some quick theorymoning:

Quagsire - Swampert says hai, and would save you space to replace Forretress with another Rapid Spinner named Starmie. However, it's your team, and if you're set on it, so be it. The surprise factor does seem smart at first, but the same things that threaten Swampert are no doubt threatening this...(frog?) as well.

Tyranitar - Appears to work well for your team. Also sets up an immediate, eternal sandstorm that does damage to your opponent's team, while not doing much to yours save Scyther.

Scyther - Replace with its evolution, Scizor, which I already see you've been up to. Scizor is immune to sandstorm which is better for the overall health of your team as well as hitting Scyther. If you want to use a stronger version of Scyther in the form of Scizor, but still want something that works in the same way, I'd suggest a Choice Scarf Scizor. This thing is functioning extremely similar to Band Scyther, but is also getting Bullet Punch, as well as being bulkier.

Dugtrio - Works here, no moning for it.

Magnezone - It always helps to have something that can eliminate most members of the most defensively annoying type in OU. I like it on this team.

Forretress - If indeed you are planning to use Scizor, I hope you have some way to work around a severe Fire and Magnezone trapping weakness. 3 steels on one team, and none of them is named Heatran or Empoleon, we have a problem.

Please Note: This is theorymoning.
 
@RBG I like the ideas. Actually, I've replaced Dugtrio with Gyra for Set-up that Quagsire's yawn provides, Magnezone for Zapdos (spec def), and Forretress will turn physically defensive. But I like my original team too, so I'll make two teams, one being the new one and the other being the original. The original will replace Scyther with Scizor, but will turn Dugtrio into a Jolly, Max Spd EV's Choice Scarfed Dugtrio for the purpose of killing Heatran and Empoleon. But would it outrun a Scarf-tran without the Scarfed Dugtrio?
 
Yes I know that Foretress is a mixed wall. I just believe it is not great on an offensive team such as this. This is because it slows you momentum down and its set up fodder for a number of threats. For example Heatran is comming in on you every time. You switch out and it gets a free Sub and batters down Gyarados with Fire Blast.

Also I recomend defensive Zapdos and Special Defensive Forretress (since you want to keep it) since defensive Zapdos handles stuff like Infernape and Machamp better
 
Okay, after a day of testing. I noticed that Forretress is a core of the team for it's RS against SR. I am relatively weak against stupid celebis.
Weaknesses:
Celebi: So annoying to kill~
Shaymin: Same.
Machamp: Since I always hit myself in confusion, this thing makes me cry.
Empoleon: Depends on whether it has Grass Knot. If Quagsire's at full health, Empoleon is a goner.
Heatran: Tends to be relatively hard to kill. need Gyra and Quags.

My team now includes a Defensive Zapdos in place of Magnezone, CB Scizor, and DD Gyra in place of Dugtrio. I'm thinking about using a Bulky one, but with E-quake instead of Bounce, since I need that more.
 
O.K

Celebi should be handled by Zapdos and Gyarados. if not then you may want to look into a Fire Type. Shaymin is toughier but Zapdos should handle it it runs HP Fire. if it runs HP Ice then Scizor will screw with it.

Machamp. Yeah you will struggle with it since you don't have a lead like Overheat Tran or Lum Metagross

Heatran should be covered by Gyarados and Quagsire, not sure why its not working.

Just some notes.

I am not sure what EVs you are running on Gyarados but I highly recomend Bulky Gyara if you are not already running it since you can take on Heatran much better. If you run Bounce then you also check Celebi relatively well fearing only a thunderwave on the switch in.


also could you update the team with your changes? Its so much easier to find out waht exatualy you are running/EVs you are using etc
 
My biggest concern about this team is how central Forretress is. If it goes down, my winning chances just got slashed in half. Is there any way to prevent things from setting up on poor Buggy?
 
Short of replacing him...no. However adding something like a catch all revenge killer like a Scarf Jirachi over Scizor can fix this.

Could you be more specific about things that are setting up on you?
 
DD Gyrados, both Life Orbed and bulky, Screening Celebi (maybe I should put Brick Break on Scizor?), and SubPetaya Empoleon with Grass Knot.
 
in that case I think a Scarf Jirachi could benefit you over Scizor. It will deal with all Gyarados and still checks Empoleon with ThunderPunch/Bolt. You get slightly weaker to Celebi (no STAB U-Turn) but Gyarados should be able to Taunt it. If you find yourself hating Celebi that much just run Bounce over Earthquake (on Gyarados) which lets you handle Celebi.

Hope I helped

Have a Nice Day!
 
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