Quagsire Discussion

Quagsire.png


Surprised there isn't a thread on this mon yet, since he's one of the staple defensive pokemon of the tier (and the main reason why everything and their mother runs HP Grass). He has respectable bulk, great abilities (Unaware is the best by far), Recover, good support moves, and decent offenses. His only problem is that he is easily countered by every bulky Grass-type of the tier and is still hit very hard by Grass-type coverage moves, being x4 weak to grass, compounded by the fact that most special attackers in NU have room for a Hidden Power to slam his one weakness. All of his abilities are useful (Yes, even Damp, though it's much less useful than the other two abilities).

Common sets for this adorable little guy include:

Bulky Wall
Quagsire @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Relaxed / Unaware

Scald
Earthquake
Toxic/Yawn
Recover

Two good STAB options, a status move, and recovery to keep him fresh. Walls most physical setup pokemon and spreads status until the end of time. This set can also be run with mixed EVs to better handle special threats, but he really likes maxed defense to better handle Absol and Swellow. Both abilities are good, so pick whichever your team needs more!

Curse
Quagsire @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 SpDef/4 Def
Careful / Unaware

Curse
Waterfall
Earthquake
Recover

Standard Curse set, but Unaware lets him come in and set up on a lot more things. His moves get good coverage but still leave him hard walled by Grass-types, so you have to remove or weaken those before attempting to set up with quaggy. Ice Punch is illegal with Unaware, but if you really want to use that you should probably use another curser with different coverage. Even with maxed special defense, two non-boosted grass attacks will generally finish him off, so keep an eye out for special attackers that like to run Grass coverage like Magmortar and Gorebyss.

Gimmick sets I'm suggesting for fun and discussion are:

Bulky Offense
Quagsire @ Life Orb
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Modest / Water Absorb

Surf/Waterfall
Ice Beam/Ice Punch
Earth Power/Earthquake
Recover

Base 65 spatk/base 85 atk can't hurt anything? Tell it to Tangela, Swellow, Absol, Sawk, and the numerous other not-so-specially-bulky pokemon in the tier. He needs max speed to get the jump on pokemon that would otherwise outspeed him, but the higher power of special moves and lower special defense of NU generally makes up for his subpar special attack. Earth Power 1hko's every steel in the tier, Ice Beam 1hko's Torterra, ko's Tangela that switches in on any other attack and SR (and you outspeed standard defensive variants), and it does a number on Eggy and Serp too. It can even 2hko opposing Quagsire with Surf. Unaware is illegal with Earth Power (and Ice Punch if you do a physical equivalent of this set), so Water Absorb is the only real choice, but it helps give it switch-in opportunities and recover health when you don't have the free turn to actually use Recover.

Gambler's Curse
252 HP/252 SpDef/4 Def
Careful / Unaware

Curse
Amnesia
Recover
Waterfall/Dive

Do you feel lucky? One crit can bring this set to its knees, but with the unparalleled ability to ignore opponents' stat boosts, it can become an amazingly bulky and strong mono-attacker if you play your cards right. Maxed Special Defense and Amnesia lets it set up on things that would normally beat it with ease, like Gorebyss' and Magmortar's Hidden Power Grass and LO Kadabra's Grass Knot (assuming you Amnesia as they switch in or as Gorebyss smashes, expecting to beat you easily). It's still inadvisable to set up on actual grass-types though, since Quaggy doesn't get any good moves to hit them with. Waterfall is the best single attack most of the time as it can still hit the birds and other flying threats, but Dive is an option to consider to not only give you an extra turn of Leftovers recovery after setting up, but to also stall for Toxic damage on threats that wall Quaggy even after it's fully set up. Bulky pokemon with Toxic ruin this set, as they can generally stall it out before it's fully set up. Altaria gets a mention as a non-grass counter that can easily stall it out and set up on it with Dragon Dance or Cotton Guard. Pairing this with a cleric pokemon like Miltank, Audino, or Lickilicky is a necessity to heal it from status, and Toxic Spikes are also a good idea to stall out certain other difficult threats like Alomomola.


Let's talk about this derpy pokemon. :)
 
There's the mono attacker if you don't like Status

CroSire
Quagsire @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 SpDef/4 Def
Careful / Unaware

Curse
Waterfall
Rest
Sleep Talk

yes it's Legal, Sleep Talk is a breeding move... I think lol...

This set by passes Status at the cost of coverage, although Mono attacking with Water Stab is pretty useful especially when you remember how effect Crocune was with Calm mind/Rest/Sleep talk/Scald in UU.
 
I'm not a fan of Cro set in gen 5 simply because of the new sleep mechanics. Unlike Suicune, Quagsire can get forced out fairly easily by anything with a grass move, and usually won't find time to wake up if he does use Curse. With a good cleric, you should be fine.
 
Idk really if it is a effective set but i have used a stockpile set before in OU

Quagsire @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Relaxed / Unaware

Scald
Toxic/Yawn
Recover
Stokepile
 
I think the issue with stockpile is that oftentimes Amnesia + Curse is better. You ought to know your opponent's first switch in for quaggy from team preview, so you can raise your stats appropriately without wasting your time going for Curse against Tangela, etc. It also lets you go past +3, which in many cases could be the difference between that giga drain KO or what have you. If quaggy had a really vital option for the 4th slot, it'd be a lot better.
 
As I said on your RMT Kenshiro, Gambler's Curse is a trollish bastard that doesn't care about anything but Toxic. I really think the set should be added onto its NU analysis. You yourself said that Magmortar's Grass Knot is the only thing that does enough damage to outright kill it (and that's after a struggle), and I think it works extremely well with Sap Sipper Miltank (something you also have in your RMT).
I'm honestly kind of scared that I'm going to start seeing more of that set around.
 
oooooh I like the idea of sap sipper miltank + quagsire a lot, since heal bell removes quagsire's only vice and miltank is obviously immune to grass moves (im sure that was the point!) Alternatively, I think that golbat would make a good third addition, since you basically only lose to choice band sawk or something OR a toxic orb swellow. It also gives you an awesome status absorber in general thanks to his good poison typing (man golbat is not used nearly enough, xtranus 9.9).
 
Golbat also works as a good wall breaker with Toxic / Super Fang, which somewhat adds to his utility when used in conjunction with Quaggy, so its definitely appealing to me. Just might try running something like that next round.
 
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