Protect + Explosion Clause for doubles?

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StarmanXL

StarmanXL

Now, hear me out on this. Yes, I know double battles aren't standard, and that there is no real established metagame, but I'd like for there to be one, and I'm hoping that this is a step in that direction.

Basically, as you all know, Protect + Explosion is a nasty combo in doubles; one of your pokemon uses Protect, the other uses Explosion, which does incredible amounts of damage to all pokemon (250 BP, and I think it cuts the opponent's def in half or something, I'm not quite sure), but your partner evades damage, so you off two of their pokemon for the price of one. Lickillily does it the best with STAB explosion, and Gengar can explode and is immune to the move, and if you're not playing under species clause, well...

But anyway, I think there should be a clause to amend this. Now, that's not to say that this combo is unbeatable or anything--there are plenty of counters, and I'm not entirely sure if it's overcentralizing--but I'm suggesting this clause for a different reason. When people talk about doubles, a lot of the people who hate it bring up Protect + Explosion as a prime example, since it's so cheap.

So, what I'm thinking is, if we make a clause to amend this combo, more people would be willing to play doubles, and we can actually start trying to build a metagame for it. I know it isn't as simple as just banning it--besides, what about it's deviants, Protect + EQ, Water Absorb + Surf, and the like?--but that's why I made this topic, so we could possibly come up with something reasonable, or if this clause is a good idea in the first place.
 
I think it is perfectly fair. I hate it when two moves are banned in singles too. Water Absorb + Surf is great. What else. "NO LIGHTNING ROD!" Double battles are all about team work. We may as well ban ghost types, because they are "unfair" to use with earthquake, and they can't be hit by normal and fighting attacks! How imba is that!? No more flying types either! They are imbalanced! In fact, only Magikarps are allowed for now on! Everything else is imba.

/rant
 
If you have a Doubles team that isn't prepared for Explosion+Protect, it's like having an OU singles team with a major Garchomp weakness. Besides, what doubles team doesn't have Protect or a Ghost or two anyway?

Also the fact that Explosion/Earthquake/Surf/etc power got cut to 75% in doubles is enough to keep it imo.
 
scotchtape622 said:
I think it is perfectly fair. I hate it when two moves are banned in singles too. Water Absorb + Surf is great. What else. "NO LIGHTNING ROD!" Double battles are all about team work. We may as well ban ghost types, because they are "unfair" to use with earthquake, and they can't be hit by normal and fighting attacks! How imba is that!? No more flying types either! They are imbalanced! In fact, only Magikarps are allowed for now on! Everything else is imba.

/rant
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I'm not talking about how it's unfair or banning teamwork, I'm just saying that the Protect + Explosion combo is the main reason why people shy away from doubles, and I was hoping for some sort of clause to amend--not ban--it so that more people would play it.
 
It's perfectly legitimate, available in game, and simply an effective strategy. If people don't like it, use ghosts or use protect yourself.
 
I propose every team carries a damp quagsire and or golduck as one of their starters! (Epic-sarcasm.)

Well, if we're on the topic of powerful combos, choice-scarf typhlosion and helping-hand kills almost anything not resistant to fire. (Or, if there's no uber's clause... CSKyogre+helping hand kills everything not IMMUNE to water.)
 
Ikaeru said:
I propose every team carries a damp quagsire and or golduck as one of their starters! (Epic-sarcasm.)

Well, if we're on the topic of powerful combos, choice-scarf typhlosion and helping-hand kills almost anything not resistant to fire. (Or, if there's no uber's clause... CSKyogre+helping hand kills everything not IMMUNE to water.)
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Finally a use for Flareon?! Helping Hand AND being immune to fire?

!

Also as previously stated, Damp is also a nice counter for Explosion, as are Steel types.
 
Guys, I'm not out to ban the thing, just to do something to make it look more balanced to most people.

Remember, this isn't about whether or not it's actually fair or cheap, but whether or not people perceive it fair or cheap. Honestly, I don't care if you use it or Choice Scarf Typhlosion or any of that crap. I'll come up with a way to counter it, and so will most of the people who play doubles already.

But what I'm trying to do is to make this combo seem less cheap to the people who don't play doubles because of it, even if the clause really doesn't change it at all. I don't want everyone to feel like they need every pokemon on their team to have Protect or something or else they'll automatically lose. I want there to be more players so we can explore the metagame better.
 
scotchtape622 said:
I think it is perfectly fair. I hate it when two moves are banned in singles too. Water Absorb + Surf is great. What else. "NO LIGHTNING ROD!" Double battles are all about team work. We may as well ban ghost types, because they are "unfair" to use with earthquake, and they can't be hit by normal and fighting attacks! How imba is that!? No more flying types either! They are imbalanced! In fact, only Magikarps are allowed for now on! Everything else is imba.

/rant
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One thing to point out concerning your rant...
Ghost types aren't immune to Earthquake.
Ghost types with Levitate are.
Dusknoir, Spiritomb, Sableye, Giratina. All ghosts that can be hit with EQ.


However, I agree with the rant. Banning Explosion+Protect is not something worth doing for double battles. It's a strategy that relies on teamwork, and besides, there's many ways to get around it (Protect yourself, a Ghost type on the field, tanks can often survive Explosion/Self destruct if they resist, killing the 'sploder before it goes kaboom, Focus Sash, Damp ability, sleep/Confusion/Paralyze before the explosion can keep it from happening, etc).
 
I agree with you. Explosion is a weak strategy. But, if you're real smart when it comes to 2v2, then you wont use Explosion. There are plenty of different strategies to use, such as Self-Swagger, Rain Dance and Follow Me. If you ever see Explosion in 2v2, it's because the user has no idea how to do anything else.
 
SK8R9 said:
I agree with you. Explosion is a weak strategy. But, if you're real smart when it comes to 2v2, then you wont use Explosion. There are plenty of different strategies to use, such as Self-Swagger, Rain Dance and Follow Me. If you ever see Explosion in 2v2, it's because the user has no idea how to do anything else.
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Has no idea to do anything else or using a viable strategy?

Explosion isn't a "weak" strategy. It's nowhere near broken, though..

Speaking of other combos though, Trick Room in doubles is looking more scary then Explosion+Protect to me.
 
Yeah, I know Trick Room=ownage in Doubles, especially since so many people are like, "OMG Doubles, sweepers > everything!". Fortunately, not many people know about that, so I don't have to hear people bitch and moan about Slowbro killing half a team whenever I mention double battles.
 
Move clauses in doubles really just no.

Although the prime of the competition is in singles battling in the doubles game is probably far more balanced than the singles with many pokemon being able to co-ordinate attacks somewhat eliminating the '4 slot syndrome'.

Heck even OHKO's and Double Team are actually viable strategies in Doubles because of how easy it is to punish people who rely on them.

Explosion is easier to stop then most think, if you think its that rampant then throw someone out with Feint where its actually far less situational. Also Protect and Substitute, any doubles battler worth their weight in salt will have at least 2 Pokemon with protect.
 
Explosion+Protect should NOT be banned. I mean, why should it in the first place? Just use Poliwrath and Dusknoir if you're really THAT scared...or use a VERY highly defensive Steel type like Bronzong or Skarmory (Roost that turn). It IS deadly, but not unfair...
 
I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD BAN IT! I understand that it's no unbalanced, that it's counterable, that it's perfectly legit, but most people who don't like the combo DON'T KNOW THAT, and probably cannot be convinced otherwise easily. I'm just saying we should amend it, even if the clause is total bull and does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF IMPORTANCE, just so doubles will attract more people to play, and a real metagame will get going.

God, how I wish I could close topics on here.
 
Well, then, the people who don't play Doubles just for that reason probably wouldn't have been that engaging to play with anyway :P.
 
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