Primal Groudon (Paradancer)

haxiom

haxiom

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groudon-primal.gif


[QC: 3/3] -- Sweep / Nayrz / steelphoenix
[GP: 2/2] -- Rhythms + Snobalt / The Dutch Plumberjack

[SET]
name: Paradancer
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunder Wave helps make up for Primal Groudon's mediocre Speed stat while making it easier to bypass some of its common checks, such as Water Arceus, Lugia, Latias, and Latios; it also cripples setup sweepers such as Mega Salamence that lack Refresh and Geomancy Xerneas. Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to frightening levels, making it an extremely powerful physical wallbreaker that can punch holes in bulky teams with the help of Thunder Wave for speed control. Precipice Blades has enough raw power to OHKO most neutral targets after a Swords Dance boost. Rock Slide provides excellent coverage alongside Precipice Blades, hitting the Flying-types and Levitate users that are immune to Precipice Blades, such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios; it also has a nice chance to make the foe flinch, which pairs well with Thunder Wave. Stone Edge trades Rock Slide's flinch chance and better accuracy for extra power and the ability to always OHKO Lugia and Latias after they take Stealth Rock damage. Fire Punch can serve as a secondary STAB move, but its coverage is limited compared to Rock Slide and Stone Edge.

Set Details
========

The HP and Special Defense EVs allow Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rock damage. 12 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed maximum Speed Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack with an Adamant nature to maximize damage output, which helps Primal Groudon with wallbreaking. An alternate EV spread of 120 HP / 248 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe allows Primal Groudon to still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas after taking one round of Stealth Rock damage in its base forme and a +1 Double-Edge from Jolly Mega Salamence after one round of Stealth Rock damage; 76 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed uninvested Xerneas and Yveltal.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to note that this Primal Groudon set is not intended to function as a wincon, but rather as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker that can weaken defensive cores for another teammate to clean up later on. In some matchups against faster offensive builds, it can be more effective to keep Primal Groudon healthy so that it can paralyze an opposing sweeper later on. Set up Swords Dance against Fairy- and Steel-types that do not threaten Primal Groudon and are forced out by it; however, it can often be better to paralyze switch-ins such as Lugia, Latias, Latios, and Water Arceus first and then use Swords Dance later on.

Team Options
========

Because this Primal Groudon set cannot set up Stealth Rock, other Stealth Rock setters, such as Dialga, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are important partners. Fast cleaners, such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Geomancy Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Swords Dance Ground Arceus, benefit from Primal Groudon's excellent wallbreaking capabilities, as they can sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their checks. Additional teammates that resist Water are very useful, so Latias, Latios, Dialga, and Mega Salamence make for good partners. If Primal Groudon is running Fire Punch, checks to Mega Salamence and Ho-Oh are important; Mega Salamence checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Dragon Arceus, Skarmory, Shuca Berry Dialga, and Bronzong, while Ho-Oh checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Mega Salamence. Zekrom can help against Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, and Primal Kyogre while helping Primal Groudon break down Water Arceus and Lugia as well. Primal Groudon can be worn down relatively easily, so Healing Wish support from Latias or Shaymin-S can be useful. Secondary checks to Xerneas, such as Klefki, Bronzong, and Ho-Oh, are important teammates to have because Primal Groudon can be worn down and KOed by Geomancy Xerneas, especially if Xerneas has Aromatherapy to heal paralysis.
 
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I remembered seeing steel post some really nice EVs I used on this set a lot, so after searching through some threads I found the below:

383-p.png


Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 104 HP / 160 Atk / 148 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave

This set is really good and underrated in general, I love setup sweepers that self-support. This particular spread is showcased well in my SPL W6 game vs ZoroDark(this game is also the reason for my love of Heatran, fuck haters) where it disrupts momentum phenomenally and does literally everything it was EV'd to do except live a Geomancy Xerneas Focus Blast after taking SR damage as Primal Groudon. 160 Atk is a benchmark I stumbled upon accidentally but it KOs both 252 HP / 0 Def Supportceus and Max HP / Max Def Bold Primal Kyogre without needing Stealth Rock while at +2. 96 Speed basically ensures you're faster than any sort of bulky Primal Kyogre / other offensive Primal Groudon, and it also gives you really nice odds of being faster than the average Ho-Oh. But yeah Paradancer Primal Groudon is cool, you Thunder Wave the check first time it comes in, SD the second time and smash faces. One of the best balance/stall killers in Ubers.
Click to expand...

Might be a good starting point, for analysis purposes you could probs take some or a lot of the Speed out and allocate it elsewhere, as it doesn't really creep anything definite so it's not analysis suitable as such.
 
The EV spread is pretty good. I usually use more along the lines of what you have in set details. That 84 Speed technically doesn't do anything other than creep (is beating 0 Spe Tentacruel really a good reason) so I question as to if you're allowed to post such a spread. I suppose you can post 76 as to beat 0 speed Yveltal and Xerneas which might be able to fly. In regards to the above set 96 Speed is arbitrary creep and can't be used in an analysis, but the mixed bulk to live +2 Xern is efficient at the cost of marginal drop in Attack power (it's a similar set as to what Haxiom already had in set details). For offensive teams that don't really need P Don to be able to tank +2 Xern Focus Blast you can dump more into Speed or even physical bulk. There's a lot of different spreads you can use.

I'd probably slash Rock Slide with Stone Edge and put Fire Punch into moves mention. The only KO you're missing out on is Lugia (and bulky Latias but you want that T Waved), and still you have a decent chance to KO it. Factor in acc vs. Edge and flinch rate and the actual probability difference between Slide and Edge is marginal. Meanwhile you gain the benefits of being 10% more secure against Ho-Oh and can paraflinch to cheese through almost anything. Fire Punch is still cool for KOing Lugia, Yveltal, Lati, Skarmory, 100% acc vs. Klefki and other arbitrary Steels, and still 2HKOs Gira-O, although Mence, Ho-Oh, and Rayquaza are more problematic.

Team options needs expanding and you can add Deo and possibly Exca to the SR setters section. If you're using Fire Punch you'll want more secure options Mega Mence and probably something good for Ho-Oh. Stuff like Zekrom completely tears down Ho-Oh, Mence, and P Ogre (annoyances) and can break down Arc Water and Lugia, two of the only defensive mons that can hope to stop this set. Fast offensive mons can revenge kill this set too so you'll want teammates that can preform well against opposing offense.
 
I'm surprised we left this out when the analysis was first being written. Anyway, I agree with Dice regarding Rock Slide. Seeing as this set does well against stall, most of the, Lugia's going to have Multiscale up, and you really cannot afford to be missing when Lugia could get Multiscale back with a miss (coupled into the fact you have less PP, you really can't afford to take that kind of chance). The flinch chance with Rock Slide is also very important and is a big reason why this set does so well against Lugia. In short, breaking Lugia is hard, but free turns make it much easier. 90% Rock Slide (albeit lower power) acc + flinch-hax + full para has in my experience had a better chance of breaking Lugia than 80% Stone Edge + full para only.
 
12 spe is really echhhhh but we can't even hint that speedcreep is absolutely necessary on mons like this so i guess it'll have to do

Change the bulk a bit; 248 HP / 52 SpD is just ever so slightly better than 252 HP / 48 SpD. 52 SpD still lets you live Geomancy Xerneas Focus Blast but you take less from SR due to the odd HP #. You waste no EVs from doing this but gain the ability to pivot more at the expense of an irrelevantly small drop in physical bulk as a result.

You can mention Fire Punch in moves but it doesn't deserve a slash. You lose out on a number of things in exchange for a move that has higher accuracy and the ability to hit some things that shouldn't stay in on offensive PDon anyway (and Bronzong!). Possibly the biggest thing you miss out on the ability to hurt is Mega Salamence (+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence in Harsh Sunshine: 204-241 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It's more minor but you also don't get a guaranteed 2HKO on Giratina-O with Fire Punch as opposed to Stone Edge (+2 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-O in Harsh Sunshine: 204-241 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO). Latias is also somewhat unimportant but you miss out on the guaranteed OHKO after Rocks on that too. You also miss out on the ability to flinch Lugia with Rock Slide, another minor thing but still something I feel I should mention. Rayquaza is another target you miss out on with Fire Punch as opposed to a Rock move (although that could have a Charti Berry to take an unboosted Rock attack anyway). You can't beat Ho-Oh, although in all fairness that won't be staying in on you too often. Lastly, you miss the ability to paralyze a Mega Aerodactyl switch-in and clock it with a Rock move the next turn; with Fire Punch, it gets Stealth Rock on you. None of these factors are major enough to warrant the move dropping to the Moves section on their own, but when all of them are combined it makes me feel like the attack just doesn't offer as much as the Rock moves do.

Team Options section needs some work. Arceus-Ground is a sick teammate to mention because of the offensive synergy the two 'mons have. They both utilize the same coverage and are strong enough to significantly dent if not outright beat each other's checks and counters, so i would mention it explicitly as opposed to simply implying that it's good with the vagary of "fast cleaning options". Remove this sentence: "Finally, Choice Scarf and priority users can deal with the fast offensive threats that can revenge kill Primal Groudon." Primal Groudon is a tank Pokemon, it lives hits from nearly all offensive threats anyway and the paradancer set's goal is never to sweep, merely to wallbreak so it doesn't much matter if some offensive thing comes in and attempts to RK it. It's also wrong to suggest choice scarfs as teammates for anything since the only viable Choice Scarf user is Xerneas, but that's just semantics I suppose :toast:. Speaking of semantics, change this: "Additional Primal Kyogre checks are necessary, so Latias, Latios, Ferrothorn, and Dialga make for good partners in this regard." to something along the lines of "Additional Water resists are nice to have, so Pokemon like Mega Salamence, Dialga, and Latios can make good teammates". Sturdy secondary Water resists aren't obligatory with Primal Groudon on more offensive teams (there's a lot of builds that prove this point if anyone thinks I need to support it further), and it's better to mention offensively oriented partners rather than things like Ferrothorn which don't fit on the same sort of team Paradancer PDon does. Remove the mention of Tyranitar as a Ho-Oh check since it... isn't. Lastly, mention a secondary Xerneas check in team options. Given the number of Geomancy Xerneas that run Aromatherapy, this Primal Groudon isn't enough to check the deer on its own. Bronzong, Klefki, Ho-Oh, and Extreme Killer Arceus are all good teammates to mention because of this.

Implement these nitpicks and qc 3/3

eN9LC1K.gif
 
Will implement when I get a chance; one thing I want to note is that odd hp =/= SR number, something I admittedly wasnt aware of for quite some time. 252 Primal Groudon hits 404 HP. 404/8=50.5, round down to 50. 248 HP hits 403 HP, 403/8=50.375, round down to 50. In other words, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter.
 
ar(c)

amcheck
[SET]
name: Paradancer
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunder Wave helps make up for Primal Groudon's mediocre Speed stat, while making it easier for Primal Groudon to bypass some of its common checks, such as Water Arceus, Lugia, Latias, and Latios; Thunder Wave also cripples setup sweepers such as Mega Salamence if it lacksthat lack Refresh and Geomancy Xerneas. Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to frightening levels, making Primal Groudonit an extremely powerful physical wallbreaker that can punch holes in bulky teams with the help of Thunder Wave for speed control. Precipice Blades serves as Primal Groudon's main STAB move, havinghas enough raw power to OHKO most neutrally effected targets after a Swords Dance boost. Rock Slide provides excellent coverage alongside Precipice Blades, hitting the Flying-types and Pokemon with Levitate users that are immune to Precipice Blades, such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios; Rock Slide also has a nice chance to flinch the foe, which pairs well with Thunder Wave. Stone Edge trades Rock Slide's flinch chance and better accuracy for extra power to be ableand the ability to always OHKO Lugia and Latias after they Stealth Rock damage. Fire Punch can serve as a secondary STAB move, but its coverage is limited compared to Rock Slide and Stone Edge.

Set Details
========

The HP and Special Defense EVs allow Primal Groudon to survive a Xerneas +2 Focus BlastFocus Blast from Xerneas at +2 Special Attack after Stealth Rock damage. 12 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed maximum Speed Mega Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack with an Adamant nature to maximize damage output, which helps Primal Groudon with wallbreaking. An alternate spread of 120 HP / 248 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe allows Primal Groudon to still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas after taking one round of Stealth Rock damage in its base forme and a +1 Double-Edge from Jolly Mega Salamence after a regularone round of Stealth Rock damage; 76 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed uninvested Xerneas and Yveltal.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to note that Paradancer Primal Groudonthis Primal Groudon set is not intended to function as a wincon, but rather an early- (add hyphen) or mid-game wallbreaker that can weaken defensive cores for something else to clean later on. In some matchups against faster offensive builds, it can be more effective to keep Primal Groudon healthy so that it can paralyze an opposing sweeper later on. Set up Swords Dance against Fairiesy- (add hyphen; subjective, but it fits better with the sentence) and Steel-types that do not threaten Primal Groudon and are forced out by it; however, it can often be better to paralyze switch-ins such as Lugia, Latias, Latios, and Water Arceus first, and then use Swords Dance later on.

Team Options
========

Because Paradancer Primal Groudon cannot set Stealth Rock, alternate Stealth Rock usthis Primal Groudon set cannot set Stealth Rock, other Stealth Rock setters, such as Dialga, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are important partners. Fast cleaning options, such as Extreme(remove space)Killer Arceus, Geomancy Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Swords Dance Ground Arceus, benefit from Primal Groudon's excellent wallbreaking capabilities, as they can sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their checks. Additional Water resistant teammates are very useful, so Latias, Latios, Dialga, and Mega Salamence make for good partners in this regard. (kinda obvious) If Primal Groudon is running Fire Punch, checks to Mega Salamence and Ho-Oh are important; Mega Salamence checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Dragon Arceus, Skarmory, Shuca Berry Dialga, and Bronzong, while Ho-Oh checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Mega Salamence. Zekrom can help against Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, and Primal Kyogre, while helping Primal Groudon break down Water Arceus and Lugia. Primal Groudon can be worn down relatively easily, so Healing Wish support from Latias or Shaymin-S can be useful. Finally, secondary checks to Xerneas, such as Klefki, Bronzong, and Ho-Oh, are important teammates to have because Primal Groudon can be worn down and beatKOedn (beaten sounds a bit too aggressive) by Geomancy Xerneas, especially if Xerneas has Aromatherapy to heal paralysis.
Snobalt The Dutch Plumberjack P Squared
 
Rhythms add Rhythms remove (Rhythms comment)
Snobalt add Snobalt remove (Snobalt comment)

[SET]
name: Paradancer
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunder Wave helps make up for Primal Groudon's mediocre Speed stat, (RC) while making it easier for Primal Groudon to bypass some of its common checks, such as Water Arceus, Lugia, Latias, and Latios; Thunder Wave also cripples setup sweepers such as Mega Salamence if it lacksthat lack Refresh and Geomancy Xerneas. Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to frightening levels, making Primal Groudonit an extremely powerful physical wallbreaker that can punch holes in bulky teams with the help of Thunder Wave for speed control. Precipice Blades serves as Primal Groudon's main STAB move, havinghas enough raw power to OHKO most neutrally effected ("neutral" is fine) targets after a Swords Dance boost. Rock Slide provides excellent coverage alongside Precipice Blades, hitting the Flying-types and Pokemon with Levitate users that are immune to Precipice Blades, such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios; Rock Slide also has a nice chance to flinch make the foe flinch, which pairs well with Thunder Wave. Stone Edge trades Rock Slide's flinch chance and better accuracy for extra power to be ableand the ability to always OHKO Lugia and Latias after they take (Careful! Don't rush!) Stealth Rock damage. Fire Punch can serve as a secondary STAB move, but its coverage is limited compared to Rock Slide and Stone Edge.

Set Details
========

The HP and Special Defense EVs allow Primal Groudon to survive a Xerneas +2 Focus BlastFocus Blast from +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rock damage. 12 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed maximum Speed Mega Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack with an Adamant nature to maximize damage output, which helps Primal Groudon with wallbreaking. An alternate EV spread of 120 HP / 248 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe allows Primal Groudon to still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas after taking one round of Stealth Rock damage in its base forme and a +1 Double-Edge from Jolly Mega Salamence after a regularone round of Stealth Rock damage; 76 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed uninvested Xerneas and Yveltal.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to note that Paradancer Primal Groudonthis Primal Groudon set is not intended to function as a wincon, but rather as an early- (add hyphen) or mid-game wallbreaker that can weaken defensive cores for something else another teammate to clean up later on. In some matchups against faster offensive builds, it can be more effective to keep Primal Groudon healthy so that it can paralyze an opposing sweeper later on. Set up Swords Dance against Fairiesy- (add hyphen; subjective, but it fits better with the sentence) and Steel-types that do not threaten Primal Groudon and are forced out by it; however, it can often be better to paralyze switch-ins such as Lugia, Latias, Latios, and Water Arceus first, and then use Swords Dance later on.

Team Options
========

Because Paradancer Primal Groudon cannot set Stealth Rock, alternate Stealth Rock usthis Primal Groudon set cannot set up Stealth Rock, other Stealth Rock setters, such as Dialga, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are important partners. Fast cleaning options cleaners, such as Extreme(remove space)Killer (nope; "Extreme Killer" has a space) Arceus, Geomancy Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Swords Dance Ground Arceus, benefit from Primal Groudon's excellent wallbreaking capabilities, as they can sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their checks. Additional teammates that resist Water resists are very useful, so Latias, Latios, Dialga, and Mega Salamence make for good partners in this regard. (kinda obvious) If Primal Groudon is running Fire Punch, checks to Mega Salamence and Ho-Oh are important; Mega Salamence checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Dragon Arceus, Skarmory, Shuca Berry Dialga, and Bronzong, while Ho-Oh checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Mega Salamence. Zekrom can help against Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, and Primal Kyogre, while helping Primal Groudon break down Water Arceus and Lugia as well. Primal Groudon can be worn down relatively easily, so Healing Wish support from Latias or Shaymin-S can be useful. Finally, secondary Secondary checks to Xerneas, such as Klefki, Bronzong, and Ho-Oh, are important teammates to have because Primal Groudon can be worn down and beatKOedn (beaten sounds a bit too aggressive) by Geomancy Xerneas, especially if Xerneas has Aromatherapy to heal paralysis.
That's my boy!
GP 1/2
0AlNOKo.gif
 
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k

remove add (Capitalize / Fix) (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2
[SET]
name: Paradancer
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thunder Wave helps make up for Primal Groudon's mediocre Speed stat while making it easier for Primal Groudon to bypass some of its common checks, such as Water Arceus, Lugia, Latias, and Latios; Thunder Wave it also cripples setup sweepers such as Mega Salamence that lack Refresh and Geomancy Xerneas. Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to frightening levels, making it an extremely powerful physical wallbreaker that can punch holes in bulky teams with the help of Thunder Wave for speed control. Precipice Blades has enough raw power to OHKO most neutral targets after a Swords Dance boost. Rock Slide provides excellent coverage alongside Precipice Blades, hitting the Flying-types and Levitate users that are immune to Precipice Blades, such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Giratina-O, Latias, and Latios; Rock Slide it also has a nice chance to make the foe flinch, which pairs well with Thunder Wave. Stone Edge trades Rock Slide's flinch chance and better accuracy for extra power and the ability to always OHKO Lugia and Latias after they take Stealth Rock damage. Fire Punch can serve as a secondary STAB move, but its coverage is limited compared to Rock Slide and Stone Edge.

Set Details
========

The HP and Special Defense EVs allow Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rock damage. 12 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed maximum Speed Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack with an Adamant nature to maximize damage output, which helps Primal Groudon with wallbreaking. An alternate EV spread of 120 HP / 248 Atk / 64 SpD / 76 Spe allows Primal Groudon to still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas after taking one round of Stealth Rock damage in its base forme and a +1 Double-Edge from Jolly Mega Salamence after one round of Stealth Rock damage; 76 Speed EVs allow Primal Groudon to outspeed uninvested Xerneas and Yveltal.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to note that this Primal Groudon set is not intended to function as a wincon, but rather as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker that can weaken defensive cores for another teammate to clean up later on. In some matchups against faster offensive builds, it can be more effective to keep Primal Groudon healthy so that it can paralyze an opposing sweeper later on. Set up Swords Dance against Fairy- and Steel-types that do not threaten Primal Groudon and are forced out by it; however, it can often be better to paralyze switch-ins such as Lugia, Latias, Latios, and Water Arceus first and then use Swords Dance later on.

Team Options
========

Because this Primal Groudon set cannot set up Stealth Rock, other Stealth Rock setters, such as Dialga, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are important partners. Fast cleaners, such as Extreme Killer Arceus, Geomancy Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Swords Dance Ground Arceus, benefit from Primal Groudon's excellent wallbreaking capabilities, as they can sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their checks. Additional teammates that resist Water are very useful, so Latias, Latios, Dialga, and Mega Salamence make for good partners. If Primal Groudon is running Fire Punch, checks to Mega Salamence and Ho-Oh are important; Mega Salamence checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Dragon Arceus, Skarmory, Shuca Berry Dialga, and Bronzong, while Ho-Oh checks include Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, Mega Diancie, and Mega Salamence. Zekrom can help against Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, and Primal Kyogre (RC) while helping Primal Groudon break down Water Arceus and Lugia as well. Primal Groudon can be worn down relatively easily, so Healing Wish support from Latias or Shaymin-S can be useful. Secondary checks to Xerneas, such as Klefki, Bronzong, and Ho-Oh, are important teammates to have because Primal Groudon can be worn down and KOed by Geomancy Xerneas, especially if Xerneas has Aromatherapy to heal paralysis.
 
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