Palafin has been suspect tested from SV OU, which you can see here. This thread will be used as "qualified" discussion per the decision made here!
This means that if you qualified for the Gliscor suspect test here, Kyurem suspect test here, or qualify for this suspect test, you can post here (and/or in the public thread if you wish). If you have any questions, PM me; if you post, but do not qualify, your post will be deleted and you will be infracted. Here are some prompting questions to get the ball rolling:
The suspect reasoning, directly from Finchinator's OP, can be found below:
This means that if you qualified for the Gliscor suspect test here, Kyurem suspect test here, or qualify for this suspect test, you can post here (and/or in the public thread if you wish). If you have any questions, PM me; if you post, but do not qualify, your post will be deleted and you will be infracted. Here are some prompting questions to get the ball rolling:
- Do you think Palafin deserves a ban in SV OU? Why or why not?
- What sets do you think put it over the edge if you think it is broken?
- What checks or counters to it are sufficient if you think it is not broken?
- Have there been any new developments pertaining to using or facing Palafin that helped shape your opinion? If so, what are they?
- If you are undecided, what are your overall thoughts on Palafin and what are you looking at to reach a conclusion?
- No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts;
- No discussion on other potential suspects -- if you wish to discuss another Pokemon, we encourage you to do so in the metagame discussion thread, but this thread is strictly to discuss if Palafin is banworthy or not;
- No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes testing Gliscor vs other potential suspects;
- You are required to make respectful posts;
- You are required to read this thread before posting.
- Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
- Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
- Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
- You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
- Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have an informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderator.
- Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
- This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message the OU Council, PM our Tier Leaders, Finchinator and Ruft, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.
The suspect reasoning, directly from Finchinator's OP, can be found below:
VIEW VOTER REQS HEREPalafin is a unique case as the base form is a liability and mandates maneuvering around, but Zero to Hero turns Palafin into a juggernaut. Mono-Water is a historically superb defensive typing and it plays well with Tera compliments; this allowed for a Taunt + Bulk Up Palafin with a defensive Tera type to ravage the infant SV OU metagame. Jet Punch provided priority to circumvent revenge killing attempts, Drain Punch provided coverage and healing, and Taunt was able to thwart opposing attempts to status it while Bulk Up made the most of free turns. On the flip side, there are offensive variants of Palafin which can be strong, but limited, when used. While the aforementioned Bulk Up variant thrived off of Palafin's great natural bulk, let's not forget it has 160 base Attack and 100 base Speed, granting the dolphin some breaking potential. The offensive sets were not what broke Palafin initially, but times change and applications of any Pokemon will vary as the generation transpires.
Speaking of times changing, there is a lot of hope within the community that Palafin will not be as problematic. If this means it is still broken or not will be up to the jury -- the voters -- to judge of course, but there are many more potential checks and counters to Palafin in the metagame. Since the initial ban of Palafin, SV OU has added Ogerpon-Wellspring, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta-Hero, Sinistcha, Rillaboom, Walking Wake, Serperior, Alomomola, and other Pokemon that may match-up favorably with Palafin. However, one of Palafin's best traits is using the appropriate and timely defensive Tera type to circumvent certain offensive counterplay, which could feasibly lead to it defeating various offensive Pokemon listed above if the circumstances line-up properly. There is a lot of give-and-take to that dynamic, which will make metagame response (and Palafin's potential counter-response, etc.) one of the most interesting components of this retest!
In terms of defensive counterplay, the metagame will be able to withstand even the most potent possibilities from Palafin like Choice Band Wave Crash simply due to the abundance of resists and immunities to a single STAB Pokemon that takes a lot of recoil alongside the negative possibilities of locking into coverage in offensive game states. However, the combination of this with the finnesse variants of Palafin like Bulk Up and potential new applications of Palafin will be at the forefront of discussions throughout this retest. It is easy for an Ogerpon-Wellspring to catch a single Jet Punch or Wave Crash, an Alomomola to sponge any single attack with ease and pivot out, or offensive resists like Raging Bolt, Dragonite, or Kyurem to hold their position once or twice over while forcing their own progress, but Palafin brings so much more nuance than linear attackers due to its bulk, set-up prospects with defensive Tera options, and priority Jet Punch, which can let it circumvent typical revenge killing mechanisms.
With everything considered, Palafin's retest is likely to be one of the most exciting suspects of the generation and I hope we get a lot of participation both in the vote and threads. It was undoubtebly broken when initially freed during SV OU's release in 2022, but it has been over two years and so many new Pokemon, which can potentially serve as counterplay, are now prominent in the metagame! Palafin has immediate drawbacks due to a lackluster base form, but goes from Zero to Hero literally and figuratively with much increased bulk and power upon reentering battle. While it does not necessarily thrive as a STAB mashing breaker always, this is still an option and Bulk Up serves it incredibly well alongside Jet Punch. Can the metagame withstand these options and adapt to potential new applications or will Palafin be too much once more? We will have to find out with this retest!