(OU) Tyranitar+Kingdra or the ultimate Acid Rain Nightmare

[Zalis]

Hi Smogon
My first RMT on this forum. This team is an evolution of the Pearl team I had eighteen months ago, of when I was a noob (I was happy having six lvl 100 pokemon back then). Since then, I've transfered my Pearl pokemon into HeartGold, and improved the team (or changed it entirely). This team won more than it lost, but it might need improvement. Note that Zapdos and Starmie weren't tested yet, and were changes from the original team.​

Ze team at a glance:​

Guillotine (Gliscor) @ Power Herb
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 136 Atk / 252 Def / 120 Spe
Nature: Impish
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Sky Attack

This guy is really evil, he cuts heads and smokes herb. He takes drugs because, then, Sky Attack is used in one turn. I chose this attack not only because it has a power of 210, with the stab, but also because of more chances of making a critical hit and/or a flinch. Sky Attack is meant for Machamp, which won't expect it, for offensive Gyarados (risk of OHKO after Stealth Rocks), and 2KO's some pokemon with Earthquake. Earthquake is for 2KO on Metagross. Ice Fang against dragons and Zapdos if Sky Attack is not used, and against anything that resistant or immune to Earthquake once Sky Attack is used. Ice + Ground attacks are awesome covevage. No Roost because Gliscor is often OHKO'ed by the bulky waters that come in, and by most other special attackers. Stealth rocks first mainly if the opposite lead is not a fast taunter (Swampert and Metagross).
I would switch on another pokemon of the team if the opposing lead is a special attacker (I'm thinking of Azelf, Heatran, or Roserade).
This guy can come on a harmless physical attack later on in the match, and do the most damage it can.

Tchernobyl (Tyranitar) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Jolly
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance

DD Tyranitar. He would come on the first turn of the match against Azelf. If Azelf hasn't used Taunt, then I would have the occasion to try the DD on the second turn and put some pressure on the opponent.
Stone Edge is for Stab and is against anything that's not steel, rock, or ground. Crunch is against pokemon that are resistant to Stone Edge (usually with a ground type), or against a weakened pokemon that would otherwise appreciate the miss of Stone Edge. Fire punch is against Steel types and Shaymin. It's great paired with Babiri Berry against Scizor's Bullet Punch and Metagross's Meteor Mash. Dragon Dance is mainly for the end of the match, because Swampert and Flygon need to be killed first by other pokemons of my team.
Tyranitar, with Sand Stream, adds damage after he comes in. He hurts usually more the opponent because 4 of my pokemon resist sandstorm.
Sand Stream might also be useful if I didn't put Stealth Rocks in.

Pumpdra (Kingdra) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 168 Spe / 88 HP
Nature: Modest
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Rain Dance

Pumpdra, or one of the most powerful Hydro Pump launchers in the game. He loves taking scarfted Heatran's Fire Blast in order to place Rain Dance.
Rain Dance beats in speed about everything in the metagame in speed if it's placed. Rain Dance also helps Metagross and Scizor take Fire attacks if they're not too strong. Hydro Pump is for anything that's not plant, bulky water (except Swampert), Blissey, or dragon. LO + Rain + 120 + stab means usually OHKO. Dragon Pulse is against all dragons (however, Dragonite needs to be damaged by SR). Draco Meteor is against Gyarados, which can't kill me after one DD. No Signal Beam because of its 75 base power. No HP electric because I can switch to Starmie if Empoleon comes in (I just have to hope Empoleon does not carry Grass Knot if he subs). No Waterfall because I am not scared of Blissey when Scizor and Tyranitar are around. Dragon Pulse + Draco Meteor will be against Shaymin and Celebi.

Misty (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Hydro Pump + BoltBeam is equal to awesome coverage. Hydro Pump is for anything that's not plant, bulky water (except Swampert), Blissey, or dragon. It might get boosted by rain, and hits OHKO's on something with a weak special defense. Thunderbolt is against bulky waters and Gyarados. Ice Beam is against plants and dragons. Starmie is my Swampert counter, because he takes the Ice Beam aimed at Gliscor, before doing Grass Knot. I don't need Rapin Spin because I can use Thunderbolt against lead Skarmony. Psychic could be an option, but it's only needed against Machamp. Timid nature to outspeed Gengar. No scarf because many teams are weak to LO Starmie.

Powerhouse (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Substitute

SubRoost Zapdos. EVs and nature are used to counter Gyarados with (Def IV) or without a DD (speed EVs) on, but they might change depending on the Zapdos I get. Discharge has a better chance of paralysis than Thunderbolt, which helps my team set up once Zapdos is gone. Heat Wave is to counter steel and grass types. Roost + Sub to stall the opponent as most as possible. I will sub if the opponent has a bulky water in. Zapdos is good for countering some dangerous threats of my team because he can take Attacks boosters hits decently.

Iron Bug (Scizor) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-Turn
- Aerial Ace / Quick Attack

CBScizor, or one of the best revenge killers in the game, with 40 base power Technician stabbed Bullet Punch. Bullet punch is against non-steel and non-water weakened opponents. Superpower will usually be used at the beginning of the match to kill a Heatran that is switched in and to do a lot of damage. It will often 2KO something that doesn't resist to it, and occasionnally OHKO. U-turn is there in also for strong power against Psychics and Plants, among others. It lets my other team members place their strategy more easily (it will often be Kingdra). I am hesistating on the last slot with Aerial Ace and Quick Attack. Quick Attack gives priority against Gyarados, but makes less damage than Aerial Ace. Aerial Ace could also be against Machamp. No Pursuit because I can Bullet punch Gengar and because I can U-Turn Starmie, and because it's usually only against these two and Dusknoir.

I think DD Dragonite is a threat after the changes. Does it means Starmie has to hold a choice scarf while he still has trouble with... Mixed Dragonite if he does Draco Meteor on my switch.
There might be others threats than Dragonite. And maybe I am weak against certain type of teams.

Good luck rating and helping me...

Changes in bold

 

[Danmire]

First off, welcome to Smogon!
The moves. Sky Attack on a Gliscor lead is a bit weird. I would suggest replacing Ice Fang/ Roost/ or Stone Edge with Taunt, to taunt slower leads from setting up. I don't know what to say about it's Sky Attack, since I've never seen one use it. I'll wait till a good rater talks about it.

Kingdra-
I would suggest removing Draco Meteor for something else, because you don't want to rely on it's messy accuracy. Dragon Pulse is good. Draco Meteor can be switched with Hidden Power Electric, in-case of Water types that are annoying, like Empoleon. Also, change the EVs for Kingdra to be 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ and 252 Spe, for that extra speed boost.

Togekiss-
Togekiss does not need investment in Defense, because it is not made to hold investment for Defense. Change the nature to Modest, and give it the EVs 252 HP/ 36 SpA/ 220 Spe.

Scizor-
You don't need Ariel Ace, when good ol' Togekiss is handling Machamp. Pursuit is a good move to use, since you don't have a Ghost/ Psychic trapper, and you might need one against anti-spinners, spinners such as Starmie, etc.

Anyway, that's my rate and recommendations. It's a good team that needs rebuilding.
I hope I helped!

 

[Zalis]

1.Kingdra-
I would suggest removing Draco Meteor for something else, because you don't want to rely on it's messy accuracy. Dragon Pulse is good. Draco Meteor can be switched with Hidden Power Electric, in-case of Water types that are annoying, like Empoleon. Also, change the EVs for Kingdra to be 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ and 252 Spe, for that extra speed boost.
2.Scizor-
You don't need Ariel Ace, when good ol' Togekiss is handling Machamp. Pursuit is a good move to use, since you don't have a Ghost/ Psychic trapper, and you might need one against anti-spinners, spinners such as Starmie, etc.

1.Yeah but Hidden Power electric is about as strong as stabbed Dragon Pulse on a Mono-Water Type. And Draco Meteor deals with Gyarados, and unlike Hidden Power Electric, can be used with Dragon Pulse for 2Ko's. Empoleon is still, however, an issue, if he put's in a sub. This confirms that I absolutely need to replace Togekiss with Zapdos. Draco Meteor = Hidden Power Electric
2. Now if I remove Togekiss I'll need Aerial Ace. Anti-Spinning is not a problem because I won't be able to put Stealth Rocks a lot of times, and because my team has no pokemon that only put entry hazards such as Skarmony and Forretress.

 

[Danmire]

But still, you have to be careful of Ghost types, that is why I recommended Pursuit. And I don't think you should replace Togekiss with Zapdos because of Empoleon. Empoleon carries Ice Beam, and Togekiss has more Sp.Def. Kingdra can KO Gyarados with HP Electric. Plus, HP Electric won't miss. I don't see a lot of Empoleons, but now that I think about it, Scizor can take care of Empoleon with Super Power, if it doesn't set up Substitute, which you have to be careful of.

EDIT: Try using something so that Empoleon won't setup, like a Taunter.

 

[G NuBz]

I have to agree with Danmire on taking off Draco Meteor. I've used basically that exact set, except I had Signal Beam and it was phenomenal, since it covered Grass types and Starmie, which Kingdra can't do much to with set you currently have. You say that Draco Meteor deals with Gyarados, but after one you're pretty much forced to switch. Gyarados can't do much to hurt Kingdra so usually 2HKOing is fine. On another note, I would also like to say that you don't need Aerial Ace on Scizor. Pursuit works much better as is and automatic kill on Revenge Killer Gengar. Then if Aerial Ace is replaced, you say that you would need Togekiss. But I would advise replacing Togekiss with Zapdos like you said, then changing Thunderpunch on Metagross to Zen Headbutt, which also deals with Machamp quite nicely.

Good Luck!

 

[ShinyMilotic7]

The weird Sky Attack is a good idea, but it is way too specific for machamp leads. And since there ranking is declining, i suggest you opt for a different move. Also by using Sky Attack, you lose an extra slot in attack and also an item. It's a great idea but... and roost is a must on a defensive pokemon like Gliscor.

Kingdra is a pretty scary pokemon and carries very good typing to set up rain. A completely special Kingdra, I think is a bit redundant. I think a mixed set is usually more superior as you won't lose much special attack and speed, just a little bulk will be given up. Since you don't have damp rock, rain is only a 5 turns, and you want to do as much damage as possible, so Draco meteor is good. Instead of Dragon pulse, you should opt for waterfall as it gives a 100% acc attack boosted in rain and coming off a decent attack stat. This way you can kill blissey and other pokemons without having to miss.

There are too many setup pokemons on your team. I suggest you take out Metagross and either slab a choice scarf or band on it for immediate power. If your opting for band on gross, than you can put a scarf on scizor which is really weird but getting popular these days. This allows you to revenge Starmie with U-turn as they try to hydro pump you for the KO. I think pursuit is useless on scizor as most of the pokemon that needs to be trapped can outright kill you before you can land those pursuits.

I also agree with the above post for Togekiss, but I think t-wave isnt that neccesary as you don't need that much paralysis support. But if your using a CBgross, then maybe. But I think a wish set is very important on your team as Kingdra is easily tired out from LO and random damage, and healing it making the opponent deal with this Kingdra again, can be very difficult, as most teams only carry one pokemon who can stand up to kingdra.

Anyways good team! and Good Luck!

 

[undisputed]

Hello Zalis,

Interesting team you have here. Upon first glance, that Gliscor set is really not looking effective. It already loses to many common leads (it doesn't have Taunt and it gets beaten by things like Azelf and Aerodactyl). If I were you I would definitely change to the standard Lead Set, as it is much more efficient at the job it is meant to perform. Here is the set for reference:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Roost
-Taunt

In addition, you have a pretty massive Swampert weakness because your physical attackers will not be able to break through it effectively. To help with this issue, I suggest using Shaymin over Togekiss. Togekiss is not very good currently as two of the biggest OU threats - Ttar and Heatran - easily set-up on it. I feel more often than not, Togekiss will give your opponent more chances to win than it gives you. This is the Shaymin set I would try:

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Sp Atk / 180 Spe / 76 Hp
Nature: Timid
-Seed Flare
-HP Fire
-Earth Power
-Rest

Just a minor nitpick, but I think Jolly Metagross is better than Adamant since it can easily set-up on Flygon without being Revenge-killed.

Good luck!

 

[Juice!]

Scizor with Aerial Ace is goofy, go with Pursuit. Starmie can switch out of U-Turn, Pursuit smashes it regardless.

I'd go with Signal Beam over Draco Meteor on Kingdra to kill shit like Celebi.

Lead Gliscor I personally would run Taunt/Earthquake/U-Turn/Stealth Rock but if you went with Roost over U-Turn it's not a bad choice either.

 

[The Grand Babido]

Hi there, interesting team you have here.

I have seen Hipmonlee use a Pokemon like your Gliscor very successfully, however with the recent drop in Machamp leads, I don't think using it on Gliscor is worthwile. I would like you to consider this Gliscor set:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly | Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Stealth Rock / Taunt / U-turn / Earthquake

With a combination of Taunt and U-turn Gliscor is able to become a very competent stallbreaker. Gliscor can also Taunt incoming Rotom-formes, allowing Tyranitar to set up comfortably vs. them as they can no longer burn it. While you lose recovery, all four moves are incredibly important to Gliscor and although you lose some survivability by running all four, I think they are all worth it.

The next thing I would like you to consider is a new Metagross set and spread. By using Jolly and 196 Spe, your Metagross has the ability to outrun things like Scarf Flygon, Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Rotom. This allows it to KO them, the former and the latter if they are weakened slightly. I would also like you to consider Zen Headbutt on Metagross as it can potentially 2HKO Rotom and threaten other Pokemon like Swampert. This would replace Meteor Mash. Definitely try out Ice Punch over Thunderpunch as well, although it is your decision in the end. A combination of U-turn from Gliscor to Metagross will allow you to beat all Machamp leads. The rare Sash leads are beaten by U-turn and OHKOed by Zen Headbutt and Metagross can come in comfortably on the Ice Punch aimed at Gliscor. By using Zen Headbutt you increase the threat Scizor to your opponent's team, as it really hates Rotom and by removing them with Metagross it will have a much easier time.

Final suggestion would be to replace Togekiss with Shaymin, the set undisputed suggested or potentially a set of 252 HP / 76 SpAtk / 184 Spe with Leech Seed and Protect over Earth Power and Rest. This really helps with the huge Swampert and Gyarados weakenesses.

Good luck!

 

[Zalis]

I saw interesting rates out here:
1:

There are too many setup pokemons on your team. I suggest you take out Metagross and either slab a choice scarf or band on it for immediate power.

I think I'll take out Metagross against a Hydro Pump + Boltbeam LO Starmie. I still have to decide myself on the last slot.

2: A lot of rates want me to change Sky Attack Gliscor into a Standard lead. But the problem with Taunt is that slower pokemon include only Metagross and Swampert. Because Swampert often has Ice Beam, I am going to swicth on the second turn, if he doesn't play Ice Beam directy. Now you also mention Aerodactyl. It means Roost is out, I would probably go for Ice Fang for 2KOing Aerodactyl. Tyranitar takes care of Azelf, so Azelf isn't a problem. Gliscor is the only non-legendary pokemon that uses Sky Attack properly. I want to keep it on him

3. A lot of rates mention replacing Aerial Ace by Pursuit. I would replace it if I play Shoddy, but this is a Heart Gold team, where you have no Rotom forms. With Pursuit, Gyarados will probably do everything he wants in late game. Aerial Ace is 1.5 more power than Pursuit, and Quick Attack is priority.

4. Shaymin is a good idea, but I prefer another ground and fighting immunity by putting in Zapdos. With Shaymin, Infernape is even a bigger problem than with Zapdos. I would also have a hard time finding a good HP fire or HP ice on him.

5. I'll edit my team once I find a good Zapdos around. Again I am not playing shoddy, and legendaries with good natures are hard to find on pokemon games. I have 3 chances out of 25 of finding the Zapdos with the right natures, and his natures will probably determine his set (Offensive, physical wall, subroost, or special wall).

6. Probably my team will be, after I find a Zapdos:
Gliscor - Tyranitar - Kingdra - Starmie - Zapdos - Scizor

Thanks for the rating.

 

[Danmire]

Because Swampert often has Ice Beam, I am going to swicth on the second turn, if he doesn't play Ice Beam directy.

That's why you hold a Yache Berry.

 

[Zalis]

Posted in a few changes.

 

[Dark Ray]

Alright i'm not here to give a full rate but more to fix some mistakes.
-1 Starmie doesn't learn energy ball, it gets grass knot which is also 80bp against pert so i suggest you use that if you need a grass attack.
-2 What do you mean psychic for dusknoir? Psychic does NOT hit dusknoir for se so hydro pump is the better choice.
-3 Running sand and rain dance on the same team seems a bit counter intuitive but thats just me.
Final say, can't see any big weaknesses, good luck with the team.

 

[Zalis]

Something that makes me drop Psychic is also Shadow Sneak of Dusknoir, which attacks before Psychic. Psychic is super effective otherwise.

 

[Gabe]

Something that makes me drop Psychic is also Shadow Sneak of Dusknoir, which attacks before Psychic. Psychic is super effective otherwise.

Psychic is not super effective on Dusknoir. The only ghosts that get hit for super effective damage by psychic attacks are the Gastly/Haunter/Gengar line.

 

[Zalis]

Oh yes, I forgot that it was Gengar's poison typing that makes it to weak to psychic and not his ghost typing.