ORAS Doubles Metagame Discussion

[Arcticblast]

thread shamelessly stolen (and modified) from the OU version by alexwolf
Hey all, here you can talk about anything ORAS related, from discussing new MEvos and their impact on the metagame, to how the existing metagame will adapt to those new threats, including new sets of existing Pokemon or existing Pokemon that got better or worse in ORAS. For anyone wondering how we know about the new Mega Evolutions and moves, the data have already been extracted from the demo version released in early October, and there is already an OU ladder when you can try out those new stuff in Pokemon Showdown hey The Immortal throw us a bone and make an ORAS Doubles challenge option. Also, feel free to post sets about the new Mega Evolutions, and I will add to the OP everything i find to be good enough. For reference, here are the new MEvos and the important movepool additions:

New Mega Evolutions

Hide

Mega Beedrill

Typing: Bug/Poison
Ability: Adaptability
Stats: 65/150/40/15/80/145

Mega Pidgeot

Typing: Normal/Flying
Ability: No Guard
Stats: 83/80/80/135/80/121

Mega Slowbro

Typing: Water/Psychic
Ability: Shell Armor
Stats: 95/75/180/130/80/30

Mega Steelix

Typing: Steel/Ground
Ability: Sand Force
Stats: 75/125/230/55/95/30

Mega Sceptile

Typing: Grass/Dragon
Ability: Lightning Rod
Stats: 70/110/75/145/85/145

Mega Swampert

Typing: Water/Ground
Ability: Swift Swim
Stats: 100/150/110/95/110/70

Mega Sableye

Typing: Dark/Ghost
Ability: Magic Bounce
Stats: 50/85/125/85/115/20

Mega Sharpedo

Typing: Water/Dark
Ability: Strong Jaw
Stats: 70/140/70/110/65/105

Mega Camerupt

Typing: Fire/Ground
Ability: Sheer Force
Stats: 70/120/100/145/105/20

Mega Altaria

Typing: Dragon/Fairy
Ability: Pixilate
Stats: 75/110/110/110/105/80

Mega Glalie

Typing: Ice
Ability: Refrigerate
Stats: 80/120/80/120/80/100

Mega Salamence

Typing: Dragon/Flying
Ability: Aerialate
Stats: 95/145/130/120/90/120

Mega Metagross

Typing: Steel/Psychic
Ability: Tough Claws
Stats: 80/145/150/105/110/110

Mega Latias

Typing: Dragon/Psychic
Ability: Levitate
Stats: 80/100/120/140/150/110

Mega Latios

Typing: Dragon/Psychic
Ability: Levitate
Stats: 80/130/100/160/120/110

Mega Lopunny

Typing: Normal/Fighting
Ability: Scrappy
Stats: 65/136/94/54/96/135

Mega Gallade

Typing: Fighting/Psychic
Ability: Inner Focus
Stats: 68/165/95/65/115/110

Mega Audino

Typing: Normal/Fairy
Ability: Healer
Stats: 103/60/126/80/126/50

Mega Diancie

Typing: Rock/Fairy
Ability: Magic Bounce
Stats: 50/160/110/160/110/110

Movepool Additions

can you tell I ripped this directly from the OU thread (update: some vaguely relevant stuff)

Earth Power Diancie
Gunk Shot and Low Kick Greninja (how very relevant)
High Jump Kick Lopunny
Crunch Gyarados
Knock Off, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, and Superpower Diggersby (MOAR BUNNIES)
Fire Punch and Thunder Punch Hawlucha
Drain Punch Chesnaught
Synthesis and Foul Play Gourgeist
Earth Power Volcanion STOP USING UNRELEASED MONS YOU FUCKS
Superpower, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, Knock Off, Ice Punch, Fire Punch Pangoro
***
Heat Wave, Air Cutter Talonflame
Hyper Voice Aurorus
Tailwind Vivillon
Magnet Rise Aegislash

Sample discussion topics:
- How not broken is Mega Salamence?
- Are ponies still a thing? What other Pokemon are going to be less common than before?
- Related: will Tyranitar make a comeback? What other Pokemon might get a bit more usage?
- HOW ABOUT THEM NEW KANG CHECKS
- Why is Mega Beedrill so sexy?
- How many posts will this thread go before KyleCole links a video?

Have fun, be civil, and think before posting!

*********

 

[Speedholes]

DD Mega Mence is so scary. 120 base speed outruns so much at +1, even stuff under Tailwind. I feel like +1 Aerilate Double-Edge now overtakes Mega Mawile's Play Rough as the standard physical attack you make sure your bulky mons can survive. Speaking of Mawile, it is really good as a check to all the dragons that will be running around and as a Diancie check with Iron Head.

TTar looks super strong right now imo. It's bulk and typing means it resists all the flying spam and can strike back. The Latis will probably be super popular so countering them hard is nice. You can even EV it to survive stuff like Jolly Mega Metagross Meteor Mash, or invest in SpA to OHKO MegaMence with Ice Beam. Sand Stream can be useful to disrupt the rain too.

I'm wondering how much TR, Tailwind and general speed control we will see when everything settles down, especially with 110 being the new 'sweet spot' as far as base speed is concerned.

Mega Lopunny is a boss.

I'm scared of bees and wasps and stuff so Mega Beedrill frightens me :(

I wish I could use Moody Glalie.

 

[finally]

hey since you guys were talking about oras i just thought that i would link a really cool video i saw earlier today
some guy even talked about smogon doubles in it!
anyways here it is! thanks :]

 

[shaian]

I definitely think we're going to see a rather sharp decline in the use of Mega CharY, even more so than what's already happening. Quite a few of the new megas, namely Diancie and Mence, eat it for breakfast. And others, like Gross and Camerupt can easily find ways to beat it. Though being an absolute nightmare against opposing weather, fairy resist, and just the raw power of CharY means that he'll likely still be a notable threat that should be covered, the power creep just leaves him a bit behind. Who knows though, maybe we'll start seeing bulkier spreads, similar to VGC.

Another thing I found so far with ORAS is that Substitute is becoming a more appealing option. It was always a decent choice, sometimes great one, but I find myself more willing to find ways to use sub on things that normally wouldn't. I know Nollans tried SubRotom-W, I've made a bulkier SubKang (though I definitely can't claim to have created subkang), just to mess around with Mence and Gross, and on other things. It's a great way to deal with the medley of new things that can beat Kanga 1 on 1, especially with Toge support.

Are ponies still a thing? imo ponyta and virizion aren't being used as much as they should be *-*

 

[Haruno]

What would be a good team surrounding Sharpedo-Mega? Mega Sharpedo is a pretty great Mega Evolved pokemon, but I just cannot find/think of any teams that are really built around it. Before this shark Mega Evolves it must get some Speed Boosts under its belt so that it can out-speed everything in its way, and when it does, nothing will stop this monster. And the Strong Jaw helps so much to Crunch giving it 180 BP and boosting Ice Fang to 98 BP. So what would be a good place for this shark?

It has a sexy combination of being frail + slow + no spread moves + taking a mega slot. Don't use imo. You're better off running blaze which is equally shit but has less problems due to not being hard fucked the moment you mevo

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Ive tried mega sceptile quite a bit and it is disappointing. It has the big issue of being just too weak to do what it needs to do. It doesnt beat rain either because all rain sweepers carry and ice/dragon type attack to beat sceptile. Talonflame is a decent partner though to beat ludi and kingdra, but mega swampert is an issue with ice punch.

Mega camerupt is immense under tr. Sub/heat wave/ep/protect is good. Once camerupt is behind a sub, sack something. Even wide guard aegi cant beat it, as it ohkos with earth power.

Volcanion is really cool too but i heard he wasnt being released any time soon so thats a shame

 

[Joim]

Add:
Sample discussion topics:
-Why does Swampert look like a Digimon?

Well, let me talk about Mega Beedrill. Yeah, there are awesome megas out there like Salamence and Metagross, but here we have a bug/poison beast (why no flying lel) with really awesome speed and attack. It has the ability to easily nail Cresselia and it surely scares off those nasty fairies that roam around, as its Poison Jab will definitely nail Togekiss, Azumarill and other fairies with ease. It's also good to have against the other new megas Slowbro and Latii bros.

However, Heatran, Ttar, and Scarf Landorus will obviously be a great threat for it. This is why I think mega beedrill does need a team dedicated to it, as you will need to eliminate the common threats to it, which will be common no doubt, before it can shine. Kinda the same situation as with Mega Pinsir, only Mega Beedrill has only a 2x weakness to Rock rather than 4x.

 

[Moudou]

I've been trying a non TR Sand Team with Steelix. There's potential, but it's still overall inferior to Rain. A Sand Room is too far fetched for me, I really feel like that's too many things to set up to have a viable Steelix.

As for Beedrill, I love it, but it's really not easy to use, it really hates priority, and getting rid of all priority users before switching in means that you might have to face a team with only 5 mons. But once again, there's potential, IMO.

 

[Fangame10]

My thoughts on the ORAS megas I found pretty intresting. I havent tried any outside of Mega Camerupt so this is speculation from me. all my opions..feel free to hate me :]

Mega Camerupt is instresting as a TR sweeper offering a nice offensive typing and good spread moves with a sweet ability. I see good potential in this pokemon but it's typing defensivley may hinder Trick room teams with water weaknesses.

Mega Beedrill is indeed strong and a viable anti Cress counter but it's frailness may hinder it especially with priority talonfalme and intimidate lowering its valuable ohko chances. Though it could be of some use to teams who need late game sweepers

Mega Swampert is pretty cool. to me it seems like one of those good rain team additions. I would find use of it in a semi-room team where it could possibly act with its 70 base speed in Trick room then use rain out of it. I haven't tried that idea out before so results may vary.

Mega Glalie is gen 4 reborn.. Explosion will be a nice touch to this pokemon. but it will be predictable and players will often protect on it which is why using a moves such as return over explosion could lead to some intresting prediction battles....but tbh I dunno if this thing will be that good...and it will likely be doomed to roam the low ladder of showdown
(WARNING: low doubles ladder may cause severe deppression from horrificly designed team experiences)

 

[Heliosan]

Couple thoughts on the ORAS megas:

- Mega Salamence will definitely be a threat. Whether to run Dragon Dance or a special set or even a mixed set, it will be good regardless especially paired with a Follow Me + Helping Hand Magic Guard Clefable to redirect Will-O-Wisps and incoming Ice Shards and Dragon attacks aimed at Salamence while using Helping Hand to boost Salamence's attacks.

- Mega Metagross will still have trouble against Sucker Punch users (ex. Mega Mawile, Mega Kangaskhan, and the occasional Bisharp), but I think it's been buffed enough to be a huge threat it was back in previous gens. Those Tough Claws Meteor Mashes are going to be really tough on Tyranitar and other Pokemon to survive.

- Mega Camerupt is definitely one of the best Trick Room sweepers and it's kind of like the old slow Eruption-spamming Heatrans in Trick Room, but it gets a STAB Earth Power which Heatran does not. The water weakness will be tough, but I think some redirection here would be helpful.

- Mega Gallade = gg Mega Kangaskhan. You can't flinch this thing and it will get a ton of damage off on anything that doesn't resist its attacks. It will still have to deal with annoying Intimidates, but Landorus-T will be fearing the potential Ice Punch.

- Mega Beedrill. Eh, it definitely has potential, but probably will require overwhelming support such as Quick Guard for example to stop incoming priority attacks. Even so, it could definitely work since it preys on Cresselia, Tyranitar, Clefable, Togekiss, etc.

- Mega Swampert. Definitely a huge rain threat, but it does have the qualm of speed-tying Ludicolo who can just press Giga Drain...so that will be interesting how people choose to EV Swampert and Ludicolo for that match-up.

- Mega Steelix. Another Trick Room mega with potential, I could see it working really well as an anti-meta option if Tyranitar is still a staple part of the metagame (which it usually is) to just abuse the sand setup. My friend used a Mega Garchomp in a VGC tournament without his own Tyranitar and basically used it to destroy the Charizard Y + Tyranitar combination that was really popular after the World Championships, so maybe Mega Steelix has a similar niche but in a Trick Room setting.

- Mega Lopunny. Oh dear, Fake Out and Scrappy on this thing and it is at base 135 speed which allows it to speed tie Mega Manectric? geez. That's gonna be really interesting since that will basically be one of the fastest Fake Out users if not the fastest and it will be dishing out a good amount of damage. It will definitely have to beware of the usual things that threaten physical attacks like Intimidate, Will-O-Wisp, and it will be open to attack from Talonflame after Fake Out is expended...but regardless I still see it doing really really well.

These are just some of my thoughts on the megas that I really thought about. What do you guys think?

 

[Heliosan]

^tbh in that vid I say don't use U-Turn, since then I've changed my opinion; its ok but I just prefer Scissor

but anyways lemme tell you about Scarf Dragons
Scarf Dragon types (I've been using Hydreigon and Latios mostly) are really strong right now because they have excellent coverage and beat the new faster megas who in many cases will try and switch in to you before you reveal scarf. I have won plenty of ORAS games just because of Scarf Latios dropping a Draco Meteor on Mega Mence/Sceptile or Ice Beam on Scarf Lando-T. I got the idea for using Scarf Hydrei from battling kom and it works just as well, with different coverage obv.

Here are the sets I've been using > Modest because I have seen literally no one else doing this so I'm not really risking a speed tie
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
I've been using this on my Mega Diancie team, outspeeds 252spe Adamant Scarf Lando-T with max Special Attack

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Trick
I use this guy on my Mega Lopunny team but it's my favourite of the two, Ice beam to beat Lando's but I have also used Tbolt because Draco has a chance to KO Landorus-T anyways (~25% from full)

I would also like to highlight Scarf Special Salamence for an Intimidate utility option, but it definitely isn't quite the same as Latios and Hydreigon in terms of damage output. It's just there if you need an Intimidate option, but hey, not a bad Dragon to scarf either.

 

[Moudou]

Has anyone tested M-Audino? It looks like a good bulk, and nice typing (two x2 weaknesses, one immunity), but Cress seems overall better, so I'm not sure.

 

[Electrolyte]

This metagame seems fun; there's a lot to explore, and (most of) the new mega evolutions are really helpful at balancing power.

A lot of people are excited about Mega Salamence. I can see where that stance is coming from, I mean, certainly it's very powerful and fast. That said, its Dragon Dance set is definitely not what I expected in terms of power and damage output. Unless you forgo Protect (and doing so has its own risks), the boosting set only has two more slots for coverage, which leaves it vulnerable to being walled, regardless of which moves it chooses to fill those slots with. I ran Return and Dragon Claw; the best idea is probably Return + something like Earthquake to hit Steels / Electric-types that resist Return. However, that still leaves you walled by Rotom-W and Thundurus, and forces you to run partners that can either sponge the Earthquake or cycle Protect.

But don't get me wrong it's still extremely powerful, very easy to synergize with, and very dangerous, smashing teams even at neutral boost (+1 and Intimidate). However, I would assume that its true power shines in the special set. That I'll still have to test out myself.

One gem I think deserves more recognition is Mega Swampert. This guy is immensely powerful and forms a particular core that is very difficult to overcome. Mega Swampert + Talonflame + Shaymin-S is an extremely potent Rain core that can make quick work of other teams, and may enable Rain to dominate the Gen 6 metagame. Mega Swampert's main concerns are as follows: Grass-types, Intimidate from Fighting-types, and Rotom-W. All three can easily be solved by a Shaymin-S or a Talonflame, or even both if you really want to lay down the pain, as the three synergize both offensively and defensively (hey, FWG!) The speed and power of this combination is immense, and you can't even use priority to nullify it. Walling it is pretty much out of the question; Intimidate barely helps because Rain boosts Water power more than 1 Intimidate can lower it. Also, good luck muscling past them, as Talonflame can run Will-o-Wisp and Shaymin-S can just flinch things to death. The trio has powerful priority, immense speed, great type synergy, flinching, spread, and even support capability (WoW from Talonflame or Tailwind). Sand and Sun are completely swept away; Chlorophyll sweepers collapse under Talonflame and Excadrill can't even 2HKO Mega Swampert with EQ, and that's with minimal defensive investment.

Seriously guys, this trio is powerful. Prepare for it or be swept away.

 

[Speedholes]

Yeah that's an excellent core. I honestly think Mega Swampert is better than I originally gave it credit for, since I initially thought base 60 Speed would hold it back too much compared to other Swift Swim mons by forcing it to waste a rain turn while mega evolving. It's coverage also seemed a bit weak since Ice Punch is only 75 BP, Superpower has a nasty side effect and it has nothing to hit Ludicolo. Pairing it up with fast and powerful Flying types just breaks down all the barriers it has by covering its weaknesses and allowing its potent STAB combo to shine. Swampert covering for the Electric and Rock weaknesses the team will have is just icing.

 

[shaian]

MegaMence is such a beautiful, beautiful mon, my lord. I've experimented with a few sets, (dual stab + coverage, mixed, sub+dd) and they all work quite well. My personal favourite though is the mixed set, because it can just lord its way through so many things that would try and stop it, since Fire Blast roasts the shit out of most things that try and czech it, and most common fairies get murderfucked by Return / Double Edge.

 

[Laga]

MegaMence is such a beautiful, beautiful mon, my lord. I've experimented with a few sets, (dual stab + coverage, mixed, sub+dd) and they all work quite well. My personal favourite though is the mixed set, because it can just lord its way through so many things that would try and stop it, since Fire Blast roasts the shit out of most things that try and czech it, and most common fairies get murderfucked by Return / Double Edge.

I'm wondering what set n EVs you are running on mixmence :)?

Also I'd like to go ahead and post a MDiancie set here that I think is it's best

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power
- Protect

Basic idea behind going -Def is that if you do manage to rack up defense boosts, it won't matter much. The SpA investment is all you need to OHKO 180 HP Heatran (which is the highest amount invested on non TR heatrans) as well as Latios. Aside from specific mons, you should just be storming through a weakened team also puns are awesome. With some solid team support, this mon can quite literally, sweep through teams, especially since the biggest threat faster than it is bopped by it (megamence). While Steel-types are a problem (especially Scizor), it's pretty much its only major problem.

Give it a spin!!

 

[shaian]

Here's the set I've been using Laga. Skip to the bottom though if you want a more universal set, since the first one is more tailored to the team it's on, and the 2nd is far more general.

Peachy (Salamence-Mega)
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 8 HP / 152 Atk / 92 Def / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double Edge / Return
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
- Fire Blast

Outruns max speed base 110's, because I hate speed ties, and there is like nothing in between that which I considered worth outrunning. I guess losing the tie between other Mence's kinda sucks, but between a 50/50 and knowing what's gonna happen and being able to play around it is kinda worth the trade. Also others Mences can't ohko anyway, so w/e, fuck those guys. Defences let you always lives 252+ Play Rough from Azumarill, and survive the incoming Aqua Jet like 14/15 times or some shit, and always 2HKO with Return. Always OHKOs 252/ 0 SpD Ferro with Fire Blast. Also does a few more things:

Relevant Calcs

Offensive:

Weird Calcs

• Who uses this?: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 468-552 (108.3 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• Slightly more likely: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Amoonguss: 426-504 (98.6 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
• Most likely: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Amoonguss: 470-554 (108.7 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• Die to Ice Beam Anyway: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

Things I specifically went out of my way to check:

• Fast Sylveon is better anyway: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 367-433 (93.1 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
• Jokes on you, I stack Intimidate: 152 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 282-333 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Lol MegaGross pls: 80 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Do these fuckers run Ice Punch yet?_?

Defensive:
These are all assuming I switched in as Mega Salamence, so I didn't factor in Intimidate (though I did do separate calcs with Intimidate factored in!

Still Weird

This is the main scenario I looked at when considering the defensive spread. Main thought was, I know I have more than one Intimidate user on the team (including base Mence), but in a situation where I was up against an Azumarill, without my other Intimidate user and with Mence as a Mega, can I handle it?
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 266-314 (79.8 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not too important by itself (relatively speaking), but it's more or less virtually impossible for Azumarill to beat Mence 1 on 1 now, since: 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 29-35 (8.7 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever!

So now I know I can pretty much safely get off at least 2 Returns versus Azumarill, without having to depend on Intimidate.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <--- this was just gravy

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 172-204 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <--- Loses to Fire Blast

252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 108-128 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO <--- lol

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 8 HP / 92 Def Salamence: 255-302 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <--- lol

There are some other situations, such as "can I take a hit + another one", that I calc'd and others factoring in Intimidate, but for the sake of brevity I just left them out!

And since that set's pretty weird because I like weird sets that wouldn't be useful for the general public, here's a more normal person one:

GO CANADA GO (Salamence-Mega)
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double Edge / Return
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
- Fire Blast

Yeah.

 

[Heliosan]

I personally have been really liking Mega Camerupt at the moment on the ladder because so many people do not prepare for Trick Room and then they just bopped by Camerupt's Sheer Force-boosted attacks and then having allies to cover things that Camerupt has a bad matchup against is just great.

 

[Makolicious]

this power creep is fucking unreal, props to any gen 3> pokemon that has managed to stay relevant without a mega

 

[Arcticblast]

this power creep is fucking unreal, props to any gen 3> pokemon that has managed to stay relevant without a mega

Hitmontop, Gyarados (bulky and CB sets), Azumarill, Jirachi, literally every Swift Swim mon, Chloro Venusaur, TTar

Latios too but all things considered Latios is pretty up there in regards to power

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Has anyone tested M-Audino? It looks like a good bulk, and nice typing (two x2 weaknesses, one immunity), but Cress seems overall better, so I'm not sure.

Actually it sports two very cool immunities from ghost/dragon. And as you witnessed in our minitour match it devoured two of the strongest priority attacks, one being super effective, in the game before reliably setting up the TR and giving me my wincon. May not be a power house like M-Camerupt but sure can fill the role of a reliable setter if your team can squeeze it in.

 

[qwerts]

I've tried mega audino and it has just about no damage output, even after a calm mind. It needs to stick to being a support mon which is hard for it since it has no reliable recovery methods

 

[Haruno]

Actually it sports two very cool immunities from ghost/dragon. And as you witnessed in our minitour match it devoured two of the strongest priority attacks, one being super effective, in the game before reliably setting up the TR and giving me my wincon. May not be a power house like M-Camerupt but sure can fill the role of a reliable setter if your team can squeeze it in.

Please don't use your minitour match to justify any things usage. K thanks. Audino is utter shit.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Please don't use your minitour match to justify any things usage. K thanks. Audino is utter shit.

I like it, what other justification is necessary?

 

[qsns]

Suicune is probably my favorite 'mon in the new meta. It can tank a hit from megamence, kill it with Ice Beam, and set up TW. Salamence is fuckin borked though and it pairs really well with TTar + Excadrill.

also lol audino is garbage, it has no reliable recovery and it's outclassed by cress (cress doesn't even take up the mega slot) :]