Onixpectedly Useable in OU?

[Blaine500]

HP:	35
Attack:	45
Defense:	160
Sp. Atk:	30
Sp. Def:	45
Speed:	70

Written by Blaine500

Overview

Yes. You read that title correctly. “Onix used in OU?? What kind of madness is this??” Is a question you would be justified to be asking yourself. And yes, this does come as quite of a shock, even for me, given that Onix is currently considered LC but please hear me out. For starters, it must first be acknowledged that the rock/ground archetype already exists in the current meta in the form of Goldon (a.k.a Golem & Rhydon). Fulfilling the ever so useful roles of a normal-resistant phazer and of electric immunity on a team making the typing it self critical in a generation ruled by Snorlax and the legendary Electrics (a.k.a Zapdos & Raikou). As its most direct competition these fellow boulder pokemon have cemented themselves as popluar picks for both ladder and tournaments alike for very good reasons. With access to the rare rapid spin and the ability to boom Golem provides great offensive utility for its teammates, while Rhydon brings with it a sky high attack stat that is backed up by powerful stab moves. So with that being said, what could Onix possibly bring to the table that they don't? The answer is actually a couple of key things, but they are game changing. These important but underestimated traits being its speed tier and movepool.

With a base speed of 70 Onix actually picks up many crucial outspeeds and speedties in the meta that Goldon simply doesn't. Those being: Tyranitar, Ursaring, Clefable, Exeggutor, Machamp, Marowak, Muk, Magneton, Sandslash, Victreebel, Vaporeon, Politoed, Poliwrath on offense and Blissey, Umbreon, Porygon2, Bellossom, Donphan, Piloswine, Omastar, Lapras, Dewgong, Mantine, Lanturn and Ampharos on stall. While its base attack stat of 45 might seem quite lackluster please consider the following facts. For one, it receives several different methods of patching that up in the form of curse, screech and even sharpen as an event move. With the latter being of particular interest for competitive use since it boosts Onix's attack stat without messing with its speed stat unlike curse. Secondly, stab and the base power of your moves actually matter more in the damage calculation than sheer stats alone. This can be exemplified by the fact that Onix's unboosted rock slide actually hits Zapdos harder than Steelix using the same move under the same conditions despite it having an attack stat almost twice as high at base 85.


Onix Rock Slide vs. Zapdos: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Steelix Rock Slide vs. Zapdos: 110-130 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now with all of that out of the way, it's time to finally get into the nitty gritty of its actual movesets.

Utility Phazer:

@Item: Leftovers
-Roar
-Earthquake
-Substitute/Sharpen
-Explosion/Rock Slide

The idea here is simple. Ideally come in on a sleeping threat such a cursed up Lax or an a predicted turn in order to set up a substitute thus bypassing crits, status and stats drop nonsense and proceed to phaze them out while collecting spikes damage. It is also noteworthy that Snorlax's unboosted Double-Edge doesn't break through sub, which leaves Onix favored against sets that lack curse.


Snorlax Double-Edge vs. Onix: 49-58 (17.9 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO

The beauty of sub is that it also prevents giga drain from working at all which is very much appreciated on a mon with an x4 weakness to grass. In fact, with this set Onix arguably becomes the most complete Muk counter in the entire game. Outspeeding it and getting its sub before Muk can even think about using giga drain. It also resists its fire blast, explosion and can fish for misses if it's packing dynamic punch, while utterly shrugging off it's stab sludge bomb.


Muk Fire Blast vs. Onix: 52-62 (19 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Muk Explosion vs. Onix: 132-156 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 93.5% chance to 2HKO
Muk Sludge Bomb vs. Onix: 17-21 (6.2 - 7.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

From there, Onix can proceed to continue phazing and collecting spikes damage or go on the offensive. Earthquaking things that have been put in range or even booming on things that it would normally not be able to from behind the safety of a sub. Alternatively, it can set up 1-2 sharpens on weakened targets that it phazes in and become a threat that way. At +1 attack Onix gets within 3% of the same damage output as Golem on neutral hits and in the same ballpark on super effective hits while also OHKOing almost all of the things that it naturally outspeeds with boom after hazards which can clear the path for its teammates.


Golem Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 150-177 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 133-157 (25.4 - 30%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 219-258 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 194-228 (48.1 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery


+1 Onix Explosion vs. Snorlax: 448-527 (85.6 - 100.7%) -- 87.2% chance to OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Ursaring: 405-476 (105.7 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Clefable: 418-492 (106.3 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Exeggutor: 380-447 (96.6 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Machamp: 405-476 (105.7 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Marowak: 321-378 (99.3 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Muk: 245-288 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Muk: 405-476 (98 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

Onix Earthquake vs. Magneton: 289-340 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Sandslash: 321-378 (90.9 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Victreebel: 448-527 (123.4 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Vaporeon: 464-546 (100.2 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Politoed: 405-476 (105.7 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Poliwrath: 348-410 (90.8 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Zapdos: 380-447 (99.2 - 116.7%) -- 94.9% chance to OHKO

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 250-294 (65.2 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Raikou: 418-492 (109.1 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Blissey: 850-999 (119.2 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Umbreon: 321-378 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- 59% chance to OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Porygon2: 369-434 (98.9 - 116.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

Onix Explosion vs. Bellossom: 253-298 (76.8 - 90.5%) -- 23.1% chance to OHKO after Spikes
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Bellossom: 380-447 (115.5 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Donphan: 306-360 (81.6 - 96%) -- 56.4% chance to OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Piloswine: 392-461 (97.2 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Omastar: 175-206 (51 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

+1 Onix Explosion vs. Lapras: 392-461 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- 79.5% chance to OHKO after Spikes

+1 Onix Rock Slide vs. Dewgong: 178-210 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Dewgong: 392-461 (102.3 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Rock Slide vs. Mantine: 194-228 (58.2 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Mantine: 432-508 (129.7 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Lanturn: 285-336 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Lanturn: 482-567 (106.4 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Ampharos: 245-288 (63.9 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Ampharos: 405-476 (105.7 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Boom Trapper:

@Item: Leftovers
-Bind
-Earthquake
-Screech/Sharpen
-Explosion/Rock Slide

This set draws many parallels to clamp Cloyster but arguably achieves its intended goal more effectively thanks to the rock/ground typing. With access to bind and explosion Onix is actually in a very unique position to be able to trap potential threats, namely Snorlax, and forcibly take them out thanks to screech regardless if they have set up or not. The potential of setting up on something that you've trapped and going on a mini sweep is also there assuming its teammates support its efforts correctly.

Onix Explosion vs. -2 Snorlax: 590-694 (112.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Onixpected Hax:

@Item: Leftovers
-Swagger
-Rock Slide
-Screech/Sharpen
-Earthquake/Explosion

Being the fastest user of the move rock slide in the entire game that actually gets stab on it (no, Lance's hacked Aerodactyl doesn't count lol) gives this set great potential for flinusion (flinch + confusion) abuse. As per usual, Onix can make use of the choas it creates thanks to confusion in order to set up and could be particularly difficult to deal with if supported with paraspam and spikes. But even without paraspam this set can find ways to bypass threats that Onix would normally never dare to. For instance, it actually speedties Cloyster and assuming its gotten 1-2 sharpens or 1 screech before hand on the switch it can make the risky play of going for rock slide flinches or booming right then and there (which is something that Goldon could never do).


+1 Onix Rock Slide vs. Cloyster: 102-120 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Cloyster: 220-259 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+2 Onix Rock Slide vs. Cloyster: 134-158 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 77.6% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+2 Onix Explosion vs. Cloyster: 296-348 (97.6 - 114.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes

Indestructible Snake:

@Item: Leftovers
-Rest
-Screech
-Harden/Curse
-Hidden Power Rock/Rock Slide

Lastly, Onix could be used to achieve extreme pp stall on a more defensive style of team with a set up like this. Rest to recover and shrugg off status. Screech as your way of undoing their defenses while using those 64 power points to stall for as long as possible. Harden for an extra 48 power points to boost your defenses through the roof and hp rock for once again more power points while having a means to attack. In the end, this set acheives a whopping 152 turns of attacks without ever running out of power points (not counting turns asleep or switches) when the stalliest of Snorlax sets a.k.a the classic: rest, curse, return & flamethrower caps at 88 turns. With this Onix successfully stalls out mono, fire and thunder Lax without much second thought. While on the topic of stall here's a fun fact, according to Bulbapedia Onix has the highest def stat of any unevolved pokemon even to this day with generation 8 having come out.

Team Options:


As a pokemon that relies quite a lot on spikes Forretress makes for a great partner. Being a fire resist Onix covers its only weakness and forry provides the spikes while also doubling as a spinner thus making a Golem on a team like this redundant. Umbreon is another great choice that deals with it's greatest enemy, that is Starmie. Being a fast water type that spins its precious spikes off the field, Onix is predictably not a fan. But with toxic, pursuit and no water weakness Umbreon makes quick work of it. On more offensive teams Zapdos, Exeggutor and even Starmie can address many of its weaknesses and provide the desired paraspam. Skarmory is another noteable partner that can stall out the earthquake and surf variants of lax on stall teams that Onix dislikes.

Conclusion:

While an unboosted explosion from Onix might not always be a world ender consider the fact that Gengar only has 20 more base in attack than it does but makes use of boom on the regular. As for those that would argue that this is enough of a difference to make a difference, please be reminded that this discrepancy in power is exactly the same as comparing Golem's (110 base attack) earthquake to Rhydon's (130 base attack) earthquake. This is not to say that Onix could become OU or anything ambitious like that (tho I suppose that depends on the usage stats and the willingness of players to experiment), but it would be disingenuous to say that there isn't at least a few key things that Onix alone can pull off in the metagame. Who knows, maybe if enough players decide to use it the abbreviation could go from Goldon to -> Goldonix when referring to the boulder pokemon in OU, which sounds eerily like Gold Onix. I do suppose that is what a shiny Steelix is... now that's Onixpected ;)

 

[Beelzemon 2003]

Great work chum, Onix is one of my favorite mons and I never thought about the Screech + Explosion combo, it sounds logical, though, because it is like using an attack with a Base Damage of 1,000! Haha, imagine if Onix had Polkadot Bow or Pink Bow, then the damage would be 1,100!

 

[cherryb0ng]

As its most direct competition these fellow boulder pokemon have cemented themselves as popluar picks for both ladder and tournaments alike for very good reasons.

Hehe. Joke.

 

[Earthworm]

Unfortunately, given it loses horribly to all Water-types, invites both Spikers and Spinners in, and can't really switch into anything other than monolax safely, I am afraid I can't see myself ever using this Pokemon in OU. It is also an immense disadvantage to need to use Sharpen before being able to OHKO foes with Explosion, and the Speed tie with Skarmory leaves you utterly worthless against stall since you can't even reliably retain Sharpen boosts reliably (you can use Curse but then you lose the only small advantage you have over other Pokemon).

If you use this Pokemon, you are almost certainly putting yourself at a big disadvantage. The OP goes into a lot of detail on the possible scenarios where Onix can succeed but neglects to go over its huge flaws in much detail. However, I will concede that it is possible that in ideal scenarios, Onix might be somewhat effective.

 

[Blaine500]

Unfortunately, given it loses horribly to all Water-types, invites both Spikers and Spinners in, and can't really switch into anything other than monolax safely, I am afraid I can't see myself ever using this Pokemon in OU. It is also an immense disadvantage to need to use Sharpen before being able to OHKO foes with Explosion, and the Speed tie with Skarmory leaves you utterly worthless against stall since you can't even reliably retain Sharpen boosts reliably (you can use Curse but then you lose the only small advantage you have over other Pokemon).

If you use this Pokemon, you are almost certainly putting yourself at a big disadvantage. The OP goes into a lot of detail on the possible scenarios where Onix can succeed but neglects to go over its huge flaws in much detail. However, I will concede that it is possible that in ideal scenarios, Onix might be somewhat effective.

Not all water types, it outspeeds Vaporeon and can go for an unboosted boom if vapo has been previously chipped to take it out that way or straight up OHKO it with as a little as 1 sharpen under its belt (while golem would just get auto OHKO by surf due to being slower). It also speedties Cloy and can risk the 50% with similar conditions in place which is an opportunity not available to Goldon. I'll concede that dealing with Starmie and Suicune could prove to be tricky, but even so. If you predict Starmie coming in on Onix to spin your spikes away simply boom on the switch and you'll still have a shot of taking it out from full without even having a boost (10% previous chip damage on Starmie or 1 Sharpen guarantees the OHKO btw). As for Suicune it's a similar situation as Starmie but a lot more dire (tho Golem doesn't do much better against it either).


Onix Explosion vs. Vaporeon: 302-356 (65.2 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Vaporeon: 457-538 (98.7 - 116.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes


Onix Explosion vs. Cloyster: 144-170 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Cloyster: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- 51.3% chance to OHKO after Spikes


Onix Explosion vs. Starmie: 251-296 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- 30.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
+1 Onix Explosion vs. Starmie: 375-441 (116 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


+1 Onix Explosion vs. Suicune: 306-360 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- 12.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As for Forretress and Golem (a.k.a the spinners) it's actually not that bad of a situation. The Utility Phazer set laughs at whatever Forry can throw at it. Substitute bypasses toxic, giga drain and explosion entirely while hidden power fire, ghost and bug take 2-3 hits to even break 1 sub and then from there forry can be comfortably chipped down by earthquake or phazed out.


Onix Earthquake vs. Forretress: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Forretress: 81-96 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 9.9% chance to 4HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Forretress Hidden Power Fire vs. Onix: 29-35 (10.6 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Forretress Hidden Power Ghost vs. Onix: 34-40 (12.4 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
Forretress Hidden Power Bug vs. Onix: 51-60 (18.6 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO

VS

While the Onix vs Golem face off might seem a little dodgey there's actually several scenarios in which Onix comes up on top:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scenario #1)

Turn 1: Onix earthquakes Golem as it switchs in on spikes

Onix Earthquake vs. Golem: 117-138 (32.2 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Golem's Hp: 56%-61.8% Onix's Hp: 100%

Turn 2: Onix earthquakes Golem (outspeeds) and then Golem earthquakes Onix

Onix Earthquake vs. Golem: 117-138 (32.2 - 38%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Golem Earthquake vs. Onix: 165-194 (60.4 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Golem's Hp: 24%-35.6% Onix's Hp: 35-45.6%

Turn 3: Onix is favored in OHKOing Golem or leaves it at 3.4% only to be ohkoed it self (tho this would be take a very extreme series of unlucky low rolls to happen in which case you simply send your pursuit user to ensure that golem does indeed get taken out).
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scenario #2)

Turn 1: Onix Subs as Golem comes in on spikes

Golem's Hp: 94% Onix's Hp: 81%

Turn 2: Onix earthquakes Golem (outspeeds) and then Golem earthquakes (breaks sub)

Onix Earthquake vs. Golem: 117-138 (32.2 - 38%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Golem's Hp: 62%-67.8% Onix's Hp: 87%

Turn 3: Onix earthquakes Golem (outspeeds) and then Golem earthquakes Onix

Onix Earthquake vs. Golem: 117-138 (32.2 - 38%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Golem Earthquake vs. Onix: 165-194 (60.4 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Golem's Hp: 30%-41.6% Onix's Hp: 22-32.6%

Turn 4: Onix is favored in OHKOing Golem or leaves it at 3.6% only to be ohkoed it self (tho once again this would be take a very extreme series of unlucky low rolls to happen in which case you simply send your pursuit user to ensure that golem does indeed get taken out).
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scenario #3)

Turn 1: Onix Sharpens as Golem comes in on spikes

Golem's Hp: 94% Onix's Hp: 100%

Turn 2: Onix earthquakes Golem (outspeeds) and then Golem earthquakes Onix

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Golem: 173-204 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 28.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Golem Earthquake vs. Onix: 165-194 (60.4 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Golem's Hp: 43.9%- 52.4% Onix's Hp: 35-45.6%

Turn 3: Onix is favored in OHKOing Golem or leaves it extremely low in health only to be ohkoed it self (tho once again this would be take a very extreme series of unlucky low rolls to happen in which case you simply send your pursuit user to ensure that golem does indeed get taken out).

Mind you, all of these scenarios are done with Golem at 100% health going into it which it is rarely ever the case with all the spinning of spikes and the repeated roaring out of Snorlax. Any previous chip damage on Golem as small as it may be turns these situations into autowins for Onix.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Now onto the good points you raised about Skarmory. I first want to point out that if Skarm already has even 1 curse under it's belt it is now slower than Golem and can thus phaze it out (so still not great). But anyways, if it's a question of keeping your sharpens up against Skarm then the answer is actually quite simple: intentionally lower Onix's Speed Evs from 252 -> 248 (M Dragon style). There exists nothing at the base 69 (Nice) speed tier so Onix could keep all of its key outspeeds mentioned in this article without making it self vulnerable to anything more (with the exception of Cloy which now outspeeds it) while still outslowing Skarm to roar it out. As for the sets that carry screech instead of sharpen Onix can still deal with Skarm whether it be through direct force, pp stalling it out or by letting its teammates deal with it once it has had it's defense lowered for a physical sweeper that ends up getting phazed in.

Onix Hidden Power Rock vs. -6 Skarmory: 148-175 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Onix Explosion vs. -6 Skarmory: 350-412 (105.1 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

P.S: Thank you for the feedback tho and I just want to say that I'm a big fan of your work :)

 

[Isa]

well the best case scenario for an onix that intends to attack should be to hit for super effective damage so let's look at some of those calcs?

Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. Onix: 177-208 (64.8 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Onix Earthquake vs. Nidoking: 163-192 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nidoking Ice Beam vs. Onix: 195-230 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 129-152 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tyranitar Crunch vs. Onix: 132-156 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 93.5% chance to 2HKO
Tyranitar Surf vs. Onix: 422-496 (154.5 - 181.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 124-146 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 183-216 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Onix: 185-218 (67.7 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Onix Earthquake vs. Steelix: 83-98 (23.5 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Steelix Earthquake vs. Onix: 142-168 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

more niche mons:
Onix Earthquake vs. Tentacruel: 180-212 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. Onix: 708-832 (259.3 - 304.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (i guess in the onix meta we should switch to surf)

Onix Earthquake vs. Jolteon: 190-224 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolteon Hidden Power Water vs. Onix: 340-400 (124.5 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

also a calc for fun vs. the most physically frail mon i can think of in ou not named smeargle:
Onix Earthquake vs. Jynx: 122-144 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Rock Slide vs. Jynx: 183-216 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jynx Ice Beam vs. Onix: 359-422 (131.5 - 154.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

--

found two 2hkos though where onix wins _if the opponent switches in on you_. you still lose the straight 1 vs 1.

Onix Earthquake vs. Gengar: 188-222 (58.2 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gengar Ice Punch vs. Onix: 205-242 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Onix Earthquake vs. Houndoom: 205-242 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Houndoom Crunch vs. Onix: 145-171 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

--

so all of this is to say that you can switch in some of your physically frailest mons on onix that take super effective damage from eq and still win the exchange. the only positive matchups onix has is vs. lax without eq, ttar without crunch/surf and muk (never seen), that's it.

there is no team that is improved by utilizing onix in place of another pokemon. this mon is onixceptional.

 

[Blaine500]

"well the best case scenario for an onix that intends to attack should be to hit for super effective damage so let's look at some of those calcs?

I did acknowledge that Onix's unboosted 45 base attack is a bit lackluster and that it might not matter as much as one might think due to the reasons I provided, but sure, why not? Lets get into the exmaples you shared over here:


Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 70.6% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. Onix: 177-208 (64.8 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Raikou: 316-372 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Raikou: 316-372 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- 64.1% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Raikou Hidden Power Water vs. Golem: 292-344 (80.4 - 94.7%) -- 51.3% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Raikou Hidden Power Water vs. Rhydon: 354-416 (85.7 - 100.7%) -- 87.2% chance to OHKO after Spikes

Well the standard on Raikou is increasingly shifting from ice -> water and so this calc isn't that relevant given that Goldon faints to Kou all the same with hazards on the field. Speaking of spikes, let me just point out that the massive juggernaut titan that is Rhydon and who has close to x3 the attack stat as Onix doesn't even OHKO Raikou from full with its stab super effective earthquake without hazards on the field thus turning it into a 2 hit Ko, which is something you didn't add in all of your Onix calculations.


Onix Earthquake vs. Nidoking: 163-192 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Nidoking: 163-192 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 84.2% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Nidoking: 272-320 (74.5 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nidoking Ice Beam vs. Onix: 195-230 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nidoking Ice Beam vs. Golem: 161-190 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 81.1% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

The outcome vs Nidoking is similar if spikes are factored in...


Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 129-152 (32 - 37.7%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 129-152 (32 - 37.7%) -- 93.6% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 194-228 (48.1 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Tyranitar Crunch vs. Onix: 132-156 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 93.5% chance to 2HKO
Tyranitar Crunch vs. Golem: 109-129 (30 - 35.5%) -- 30.7% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Tyranitar Crunch vs. -1 Golem: 168-198 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 99.1% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Tyranitar Surf vs. Onix: 422-496 (154.5 - 181.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tyranitar Surf vs. Golem: 347-408 (95.5 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Tyranitar Surf vs. Rhydon: 422-496 (102.1 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar: 129-152 (32 - 37.7%) -- 93.6% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Tyranitar on a critical hit: 255-300 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

This last one is a little all over the place, because why would Tar use crunch on a rock type? But anyways, if crunch picks up a sp. def drop on the switch as it famously does then Golem is in the same boat as Onix. And yup, they all get OHKOed by surf, but the difference here is that Onix is actually gonna leave a dent on Tar before going down instead of doing 0% damage like Goldon that gets outspeed.


Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 124-146 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 124-146 (30 - 35.3%) -- 25.4% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 183-216 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 183-216 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 80.3% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Onix: 185-218 (67.7 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Onix: 185-218 (67.7 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes

This is basically the same dynamic as Onix vs Golem that I covered before in the previous post, but once again no mention of spikes so I added that in. At +1 with spikes Onix wins this thanks to outspeeding, but honestly exchanging earthquakes like this really shouldn't be your first plan of attack.


Onix Earthquake vs. Steelix: 83-98 (23.5 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Steelix: 124-146 (35.1 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Steelix: 139-164 (39.3 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Steelix Earthquake vs. Onix: 142-168 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Steelix Earthquake vs. Golem: 165-194 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 92.8% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Make no mistake here, this is a subpar match up for Golem as well...

more niche mons:

Onix Earthquake vs. Tentacruel: 180-212 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Tentacruel: 301-354 (82.9 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. Onix: 708-832 (259.3 - 304.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (i guess in the onix meta we should switch to surf)
Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. Golem: 585-688 (161.1 - 189.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Golem doesn't OHKO Tentacruel without a boost or spikes from full either and gets OHKO by Hydro Pump all the same, but the difference here is that Onix could actually land a hit on Tentacruel from behind the safety of a sub without being taken out, while Golem can't sub without giving up on spin which makes it a lot less appealing...

Onix Earthquake vs. Jolteon: 190-224 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolteon Hidden Power Water vs. Onix: 340-400 (124.5 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Golem Earthquake vs. Jolteon: 323-380 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jolteon Hidden Power Water vs. Golem: 282-332 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- 28.2% chance to OHKO after Spikes

Sure. Golem takes Jolteon out in 1 hit assuming it's been para but it gets taken out in shot too by hp water + the smallest amount of previous chip damage, which is very reasonable to expect on Golem due to all of the spinning/phazing it does and 59.9 - 70.6% damage on the switch from Onix isn't easily shrugged off by Jolteon either.

also a calc for fun vs. the most physically frail mon i can think of in ou not named smeargle:

Onix Earthquake vs. Jynx: 122-144 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Jynx: 204-240 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Onix Rock Slide vs. Jynx: 183-216 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Golem Hidden Power Rock vs. Jynx: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jynx Ice Beam vs. Onix: 359-422 (131.5 - 154.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jynx Ice Beam vs. Golem: 296-348 (81.5 - 95.8%) -- 56.4% chance to OHKO after Spikes

This one seemed like a pretty pointless calc because they both end up in the same place against it and I would never dream of keeping my rock/ground type in against Jynx. I would have included a calc of Golem's rock slide but then that would mean it can't spin which takes a lot of appeal away from using it in the first place.

found two 2hkos though where onix wins _if the opponent switches in on you_. you still lose the straight 1 vs 1.

Onix Earthquake vs. Gengar: 188-222 (58.2 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Golem Earthquake vs. Gengar: 313-368 (96.9 - 113.9%) -- 82.1% chance to OHKO
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Gengar: 280-330 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 94.9% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Gengar Ice Punch vs. Onix: 205-242 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar Ice Punch vs. Golem: 170-200 (46.8 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Well I just want to point out that Golem doesn't guarantee the OHKO without spikes and that If Onix is at +1 attack it creates a similar outcome. Besides they both get 2 HKO by Gengar's Ice punch after spikes regardless.


Onix Earthquake vs. Houndoom: 205-242 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Houndoom: 311-366 (88.1 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Houndoom Crunch vs. Onix: 145-171 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Houndoom Crunch vs. Golem: 120-142 (33 - 39.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Houndoom Solar Beam vs. Onix: 582-684 (213.1 - 250.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Houndoom Solar Beam vs. Golem: 479-564 (131.9 - 155.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is a good one actually given that Crunch is a 3 HKO after spikes on Golem but let me say that Onix can bypasss this by already being behind a sub when doom comes in and that 58 - 68.5% is still soilde damage (if at+1 one attack it's a OHKO with spikes btw). Also, this whole calc becomes pointless if the sun is up since Doom carries solar beam...

so all of this is to say that you can switch in some of your physically frailest mons on onix that take super effective damage from eq and still win the exchange. the only positive matchups onix has is vs. lax without eq, ttar without crunch/surf and muk (never seen), that's it.

there is no team that is improved by utilizing onix in place of another pokemon. this mon is onixceptional."

I think you may have missed the point of why someone would make use of Onix over Goldon on a team. If you want a monster juggernaut of a hitter you would obviously use Rhydon, if you need to compress roar, boom and spin onto 1 pokemon while still being able to hit decently hard you'd use Golem but if these are things that you've already got covered by other teammates in one form or another then Onix can provide unique outspeeds that can lead to trapping, setting up or booming on threats that Golem would never be able to while still fullfilling the standard normal resistant phazer and electric immune role on a team. But yes, lets compare apples to oranges and pretend that while they're both fruits that they'll bestow the same nutritional value to their consumers...

 

[Isa]

i guess ill simplify further then

onix has lower raw hp than golem, lower physical and special bulk, and lower attack and special attack. the only stat that is higher than golem is speed (and defense but see prior). the niche for onix thus resides entirely within its speed and any movepool differences. sharpen _would_ be a unique movepool difference, but the fact of the matter is that a +1 onix still hits its targets for less damage than a golem would with the same move. onix frailty and poor defensive typing gives it no real opportunities to get to +2 either.

the niche of onix thus resides almost entirely within the speed range between itself and golem. out of mons commonly seen in ou, we're looking at speedtieing skarmory/cloyster and outspeeding vaporeon, umbreon, ttar, exeggutor, machamp, blissey, and not speedtieing marowak. noteworthy is that you're not speedtying faster water types like suicune and starmie. onix boom is also weak enough to not actually do enough to kill them without prior damage (spikes gives you a small chance to ohko starmie with a boom).

you thus need to justify nailing specifically a slower subset of water mons (vaporeon + cloyster speedtie [cloyster on a speedtie barely counts honestly]), exeggutor and umbreon with a more accurate (but still less damaging) boom, as the other mons do not threaten an ohko anyway (blissey, machamp, and surprisingly golem always lives marowak eq at full too). technically you also outspeed ttar but golem is better in that matchup except vs the rare surf variant, which onix would also run from.

so if you can provide a team that exemplifies why onix is a better fit than golem with dual stab + explosion + fourth move of choice (as an example substitute as 4th gives you the accurate booms that onix uses as a claim to fame) then i'd be happy. would love a replay as well to show how onix did that role better.

 

[Blaine500]

i guess ill simplify further then

onix has lower raw hp than golem, lower physical and special bulk, and lower attack and special attack. the only stat that is higher than golem is speed (and defense but see prior). the niche for onix thus resides entirely within its speed and any movepool differences. sharpen _would_ be a unique movepool difference, but the fact of the matter is that a +1 onix still hits its targets for less damage than a golem would with the same move. onix frailty and poor defensive typing gives it no real opportunities to get to +2 either.

Much much lower hp yes but its defense stat is a full 30 base higher than Golem's which can't be overstated since this leads to a difference of only 2-3% in terms of damage taken on the physical side. A small price to pay if you ask me for actually being able to outspeed things in OU that are not called Snorlax lol.

Snorlax Double-Edge vs. Golem: 57-68 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
Snorlax Double-Edge vs. Onix: 49-58 (17.9 - 21.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Its lower attack gets addressed by setting up and its special defense stat is literally the same as Cloyster's or Rhydon's who apparently often finds time to set up in the meta despite its poor defensive typing (as for its special attack, it 100% doesn't matter since it literally gets nothing on the special side other than the hidden powers). Speaking of Cloy, I'd like to draw a little parallel between the two, if I may. When placed side by side I have always been amazed at how similar of a stat distribution profile they share:


Cloyster: Onix:
HP: 50 HP: 35
Attack: 95 Attack: 45
Defense: 180 Defense: 160
Sp. Att: 85 Sp. Att: 30
Sp. Def: 45 Sp. Def: 45
Speed: 70 Speed: 70

As can be seen they both got low hp, psycho high def and literally the same special def and speed stat. With that said, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about how great Cloy's 50 base hp and 45 base special defense are at taking hits in a generation ruled by Zapdos, Raikou and Snorlax who likes to run thunder these days. Funny how it be like that...

the niche of onix thus resides almost entirely within the speed range between itself and golem. out of mons commonly seen in ou, we're looking at speedtieing skarmory/cloyster and outspeeding vaporeon, umbreon, ttar, exeggutor, machamp, blissey, and not speedtieing marowak. noteworthy is that you're not speedtying faster water types like suicune and starmie. onix boom is also weak enough to not actually do enough to kill them without prior damage (spikes gives you a small chance to ohko starmie with a boom).

Well I did say in my original post that what made Onix stand out from Goldon was its speed and movepool. Golem doesn't learn screech, sharpen or bind and it can't use sub or rock slide without losing its precious spin. Rhydon doesn't learn screech, sharpen, bind or explosion and Tyranitar doesn't get sharpen, sub, bind or explosion (and isn't even electric immune). There's enough value in these options alone for a legit niche for Onix without even mentioning the nice bonus that is its speed stat.

you thus need to justify nailing specifically a slower subset of water mons (vaporeon + cloyster speedtie [cloyster on a speedtie barely counts honestly]), exeggutor and umbreon with a more accurate (but still less damaging) boom, as the other mons do not threaten an ohko anyway (blissey, machamp, and surprisingly golem always lives marowak eq at full too). technically you also outspeed ttar but golem is better in that matchup except vs the rare surf variant, which onix would also run from.

Certain teams that already have spin covered by other means can make use of these key outspeeds in order to have extra insurance against these threats that they need out of the way for their sweepers to do their thing. It can come in and be an emergency answer to many situations mid to late game when things have been softened up or if its managed to get a boost assuming, of course, that the team calls for it.


Oh no, a chipped Marowak has gotten a swords dance on your Zapdos/Skarmory
→ Switchs to Onix on rock slide → BOOM


Oh no, they have a Muk and your only sweeper left is a cross chop rock slide Machamp, swords dance Meganium or curse Heracross
→ Onix to the rescue → (Earthquake, Sub, Roar, Boom, Etc)


Oh no, their Vaporeon has gotten several growths, didn't get OHKOed by thunder and now Zapdos/Raikou has been taken out
→ Onix to the rescue → BOOM


Oh no, you've loss your fighting resist and all you've got left to sweep with is a Snorlax while their Machamp is staring down your flyer or steel type
→ Switchs to Onix on rock slide or fire blast → BOOM


Oh no, you ice punched Exeggutor with Gengar desperately hoping for a freeze but its Psychic crit you, and everything you've got left is slow
→ Onix to the rescue → BOOM

There are many other situations just like these in which Onix can play to favor its teammates but it gets tedious. Alternatively, Onix can make use of it's defensive set on stall and help outlast other stall teams while never letting mono, fire or thunder Snorlax feel safe against it. Screech doesn't let you sleep on it and this leads to lots of switching in and out of spikes which is, of course, appreciated on stall.

so if you can provide a team that exemplifies why onix is a better fit than golem with dual stab + explosion + fourth move of choice (as an example substitute as 4th gives you the accurate booms that onix uses as a claim to fame) then i'd be happy. would love a replay as well to show how onix did that role better.

Here are a few replays I've had in my testing phaze of Onix both on ladder and in challenge matches:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1392864598-5irv6wa4giy9kzlgpxokosruwf3axydpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1376388365-zuytx45v5641u06eanhhbxxe03ijvpbpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1392853063-qjihshuobedgrhsixvd1suvi5p0yqakpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1354782601-f8afu0x6y93v635mhqnvuh3r5jpswj1pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1392987530-m9qkay5kzg0exwhhu35j56ue6ua3u0fpw

I do intend on getting more tests going but I've been fairly busy lately so that may take a while. Hopefully these are enough to at least give you an idea on how Onix would be deployed in actual matches.

 

[Isa]

sure ill go through the replays.

g1 onix came in, used substitute, the sub got broken, got out, then was sacced to cloysters surf. onix did nothing of note here except exist
g2 onix is roared in by rhydon and gets out, used as a pivot for zapdos thunder, used as a (failed) pivot for scizor's attacking, then we finally! see it do something as it comes in on zapdos thunder, uses sub on the switch to snorlax, eqs are exchanged and sub was broken, sub is used again as lax uses bslam, then snorlax switches out?? to rhydon??, roar is used, starmicomes in and is boomed on. cool and dandy but 1. your opponent definitely misplayed 2. golem could have done all these things too and better due to the higher stats as the moves are all shared. there was nothing in here that onix would do better than a golem
g3 onix is roared in by golem, gets out. doubles in on cloyster, gets out. gets in on a zapdos thunder, takes a hp ice and booms. again this could have been done by a golem, this game doesnt show why onix would be a better fit
g4 onix comes in on a machamp fire blast and booms on it. the machamp was at 37% and onix at 85% so you lived a cross chop but there's a crit risk i guess. due to the speed difference golem couldn't have done the same boom so i will concede that booming on a weakened machamp while dodging a crit cc is something onix can do that golem cannot. up for debate how big that niche is (you had a zapdos in the back that could kill machamp with one thunder) and up for debate how much praise should be given to a full hp mon switching in on a weakened mon to immediately boom on it. also golem eq is a bit better than a coinflip to kill from that range so you wouldnt have to boom
g5 you faced a muk lol grats. you came in, subbed up, roared a bit, took poison on the switch and ended up booming on a heracross. i mean technically speaking the substitute on muk was something golem couldn't do without taking sludge bomb but muk doesnt carry giga drain anyway here or your opponent would use it. also your opponent used a team of snorlax ttar heracross muk slowbro gyarados and i am not convinced these are the teams you would see at a high level of gameplay.

out of the five games you linked where onix was supposed to showcase its unique traits over golem i find that in 3/5 of those cases golem would have done the exact same job but better, two games the unique traits technically got showcased but i am left entirely unconvinced by either of them. i'm out, but if someone else wants to keep going be my guest

and for all your talk about onix's movepool in none of the five replays provided did you show off a movepool that differed from what golem has available

 

[Eeveeto]

Isa and Earthworm already said everything, but to add on that I should mention that if I wanted a Snorlax + Muk check that was a fast Rock type, I would use Reflect + Whirlwind Aerodactyl, which can actually check and phaze out almost every variant of Snorlax (LK, Thunder and Surf being the exceptions) and Muk. It has additional utility as Heracross counter, non Iron Tail Steelix switch-in (to put Reflect) and good Moltres (and Fire types in general) check. Also can run some other sraets such as 4 attacks, Curse+ WW or Belly Drum ( if you manage to pull that out with Smeargle) receiver. Unlike Onix, Aero has actual Speed and still some bulk and power, meaning it will do SOMETHING in every battle.

 

[Heika]

bunch of calcs against things that won't switch in on onix/golem, but happen to come in on a double or see the ground come in...

Let's just clarify a few things all those calcs with spikes are only relevant if the target is switching in the turn of the attack, otherwise they'll be 6,25% more healthy, and that changes things big time cuz those scenario "that are the same between onix and golem" are only actually the same if they attack as they come in, so they only take leftiez once. Otherwise :

Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 70.6% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

for instance for this one,
Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 9.7% chance to 2HKO
would be more accurate, because two lefties effectively cancel out a spike, and this is assuming the worst case scenario for raikou user : the got their raikou in on a double.

Ofc every single of those calcs are based on full hp mons facing, which is not the scenario in which onix speed shines the most ig.
Also something that is missing a lot imo if you wanna show onix usefulness is comparison with steelix (who also, logically, get sharpen), since the only comparison is that their rock slide are similar, which isn't really a point for onix tbh.

Cool work nonetheless.

 

[Blaine500]

"Isa and Earthworm already said everything, but to add on that I should mention that if I wanted a Snorlax + Muk check that was a fast Rock type, I would use Reflect + Whirlwind Aerodactyl, which can actually check and phaze out almost every variant of Snorlax (LK, Thunder and Surf being the exceptions) and Muk. It has additional utility as Heracross counter, non Iron Tail Steelix switch-in (to put Reflect) and good Moltres (and Fire types in general) check. Also can run some other sraets such as 4 attacks, Curse+ WW or Belly Drum ( if you manage to pull that out with Smeargle) receiver. Unlike Onix, Aero has actual Speed and still some bulk and power, meaning it will do SOMETHING in every battle."- Eeveeto

While I do concede that Aerodactyl is strictly superior in dealing with earthquake Snorlax given that it bypasses the move entirely, you do lose out on several useful traits going with Aero > Onix or Goldon in general as your normal resist. For one, Aero isn't electric immune, in fact, it's electric weak as well as being weak to rock. So you've lost your switch ins to the Electrics and Tar right off the bat. Secondly, Aero can't use boom, screech, rock slide (no, Lance's hacked Aero still doesn't count lol), trap or even boost it's attack stat at all without becoming slower than wait for it... Onix ;)

And while Aero's elite speed stat might seem really good, as a phazer that's actually a no go. When two roars/whirlwinds are used at the same time the slower roar/whirlwind wins and proceeds to phaze the other mon out. With that said, Aero loses 100% of these relevant phazer confrontations (even Crobat's whirlwind and Jolteon's roar end up as coinflips) that it could have not only in OU but in the entire game in general without making it self slower which defeats the purpose of using it. As for this "power" that Aero supposedly brings to the table let me just point out that despite having over x2 times the attack stat of Onix its unboosted earthquake is not even within 2% difference in damage output.

vs
Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 97-114 (18.5 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 90-106 (17.2 - 20.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

And that's the thing, you see, it's not gonna get a boost (assuming ancientpower doesn't activate of course lol) without losing its main selling point (i.e its speed) while Onix can. The access to fire blast and the ability to deal with Heracross are nice but overall Aero's phazer capablities have never really impressed me. Where it is really shines is as revenge killer that outspeeds basically everything with a pulse lategame as it soars high into the ancient skies of old looking for its next prey.

 

[Blaine500]

Let's just clarify a few things all those calcs with spikes are only relevant if the target is switching in the turn of the attack, otherwise they'll be 6,25% more healthy, and that changes things big time cuz those scenario "that are the same between onix and golem" are only actually the same if they attack as they come in, so they only take leftiez once. Otherwise :

Well, I didn't mention it in everything else I wrote but thief is another thing that completely changes the damage calcs to favor Onix, especially with spikes down.

for instance for this one,
Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 9.7% chance to 2HKO
would be more accurate, because two lefties effectively cancel out a spike, and this is assuming the worst case scenario for raikou user : the got their raikou in on a double.

If I want to get technical, these are actually the worst case scenarios for the Raikou user but fair point nonetheless:

+1 Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou: 250-294 (65.2 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Onix Earthquake vs. Raikou on a critical hit: 331-390 (86.4 - 101.8%) -- 92.3% chance to OHKO after Spikes

Ofc every single of those calcs are based on full hp mons facing, which is not the scenario in which onix speed shines the most ig.

Indeed, Onix is most comfortable in the mid to lategame when stuff have been softened up a tad or its gotten a boost going.

Also something that is missing a lot imo if you wanna show onix usefulness is comparison with steelix (who also, logically, get sharpen), since the only comparison is that their rock slide are similar, which isn't really a point for onix tbh.

Well the main things that can be said about that is that Onix is faster and is a fire resist while Steelix is fire weak. Also, Steelix gets no use out of sharpen since the point of the move is to boost your attack while keeping your speed but this doesn't help Lix given that everything outspeeds it anyways... Besides, comparing the steels to the rocks is another apples to oranges situation.

Cool work nonetheless.

Thanks

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

I believe this thread has run its course. It is undeniable that there are traits that give Onix a niche, but it's highly questionable whether these traits are enough to justify its use on a serious team over the conventional picks. As a normal resistent phazer with access to Explosion it might perform somewhat okay, but you are more likely than not more limiting yourself than actually benefitting from it. If you still want to prove that Onix is viable, the best way to do so is to use it in tournaments to success.

I'd also recomment to keep calcuations to the most important ones, as ones with the likes of Magneton, Lanturn or Bellosom aren't really relevant for the OU metagame.