Ninetales (Gen 4, Sunny Day Sweeper)

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franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
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A set that sweeped my stall team after realizing how hard it was to take down. Tried the set myself and its quite destructive if you're not prepared for it. I believe this deserves its own set, its the best sunny day sweeper in my opinion.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ninetales


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[Set]
name: Sunny Day Sweeper
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Nasty Plot
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Solar Beam
item: Life Orb / Heat Rock
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This particular set takes advantage of the classic Sunny Day + Solar Beam combination. Only a few Pokemon can run the combination successfully, and Ninetales happens to fit the bill when you're looking to run it. While its fellow Fire-type Houndoom can run a similar set, Ninetales has a couple of things that give it a distinct advantage as a SunnyBeamer. Ninetales’ blistering Speed gives it a jump ahead over a majority of the UU metagame. This allows her to set up with impunity for the most part without having someone faster to pick on her when her HP is reduced. Besides the blistering Speed, her most valuable feature as a Sunny Day sweeper is her Special Defense stat. Ninetales’ high Special Defense stat allows her to combat with many bulky Water-types that normally use specially inclined moves, such as Milotic and Slowbro. With Sunny Day in play, Water-type attacks are halved in strength; Milotic and Slowbro’s Surf can only muster 35.5% - 42.5% with Surf. This gives Ninetales an ample number of opportunities to use Nasty Plot once or twice. Unlike Houndoom, Ninetales is not prone to the omnipresent Fighting-type priority hits in UU. This means that Ninetales can stay in on Pokemon like Blaziken, Hitmontop, and Hitmonlee without fearing their respective priority moves. Another distinct advantage Ninetales has over Houndoom is her higher Defense stat, which could come in handy.</p>

<p>Since this set aims to boost Ninetales’ Fire-type moves to astonishing heights, it only makes sense to space in two attacking moves to provide the best possible coverage. Sunny Day and Nasty Plot make a dangerous combo since it allows Fire Blast to inflict enormous amounts of damage. Even Chansey, the best special wall in the tier, suffers 60.4%-71.1% from a boosted Fire Blast. A possible Flash Fire boost along with the aforementioned boosts will deal 75%-88.5% on Chansey – a slight chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock down! Solar Beam spells doom for most Water-types that resist Fire Blast, and gets super effective coverage on Rock-types as well.</p>

<p>The choice between Life Orb and Heat Rock is essentially a cross between power and survivability. Life Orb provides the raw power to possibly OHKO Chansey, and in general, inflict huge amounts of damage to the opponent. On the other hand, Heat Rock provides the eight-turn sunshine for herself or the entire team. The extra three turns prolongs Ninetale’s time on the field, as it can use the extra turns to deal damage to the opponent while cushioning Water-types hits. It also helps certain Pokemon who benefit from Sunny Day.</p>

<p>Very few defensive Pokemon can check it when you consider its ability to potentially take out the best special wall in the tier in one shot, and the fact that other specially defensive Pokemon such as Regice and Registeel are weak to its STAB moves. Preventing it from setting up is probably your best option, and you can’t afford to give it free turns to set up. For instance, if Donphan is facing Ninetales, it’s probably not the best idea to switch out if you know it is running a Sunny day set. Earthquake would be the better choice at the spur-of-the moment if you truly want to stop it from setting up Sunny Day. However, if it does manage to set itself up, anything that’s faster than her are considered counters. Swellow can switch in on a predicted Nasty Plot or Solar Beam, and it can scare her away with Facade or Brave Bird. Rotom combats with Swellow fairly well and it can use Thunderbolt to eliminate it.</p>

<p>Flash Fire users such as Arcanine and Houndoom need to be adressed beforehand since it will slow down her momentum. Milotic seems like a great fit for Ninetales since they can exchange most hits dished at each other. Milotic also checks Arcanine and Houndoom to a good extent. If you want to keep the offensive pace running, Dugtrio makes an excellent partner for checking Arcanine. Take note that it is best if you bring Dugtrio in after someone dies since Dugtrio can't afford to switch in on any of Arcanine’s attacks (barring Thunder Fang, which is risky).</p>

<p>Priority hits are problematic as well since it can bring down Ninetale’s HP and bypasses Ninetales’ good Speed stat. The most prominent priority users are Ambipom, Hitmontop, Kabutops, Honchkrow, and Azumarill. Bringing a Weezing of your own can help check these threats by using Will-O-Wisp to weaken their physical attacks or using Sludge Bomb or Thunderbolt to take them down. Honchkrow needs special attention since Weezing can’t safely switch in on Brave Bird. A defensive Rotom can check Honchkrow by using Will-O-Wisp on a predicted Sucker Punch, or use Thunderbolt if it decides to Brave Bird again.</p>

<p>Before set-up, Altaria could be problematic since it can still take her hits. Slowbro makes an excellent partner since it can match-up with Altaria quite well. Slowbro can alternate between Thunder Wave and Ice Beam, while Altaria tries to clean its status with Heal Bell. Dugtrio is a difficult Pokemon to counter sincee you can't escape from its grasps. Although it might be problematic type coverage wise, packing a Mix Houndoom of your own can help lure in Dugtrio. Houndoom can use Sucker Punch to OHKO Dugtrio, if it attempts to trap it. Furthermore, Houndoom benefits from Sunny Day provided by Ninetales.</p>

<p>Since this set attempts to bring in Sunny Day on the field, you have an option to surround Ninetales with Pokemon who benefit from the sun. Examples include Tangrowth, Victreebel, and Jumpluff. Jumplff in particular can open up opportunities for Ninetales to set up since it can use Encore on a Fire-type move. Ninetales could switch in and eat the Fire-type move to boosts its Special Attack stat.</p>

<p>Ninetales is a perfect example of someone who shines with Stealth Rock and Spikes support. With Stealth Rock and Spikes deployed on the field, Ninetales could possibly OHKO Chansey with a single Fire Blast. It also leaves Altaria inOHKO range if it switches in on Stealth Rock. Reflect supportis always appreciated since most priority hits come from the physical side. With Reflect down and Sunny Day down, Azumarill’s Aqua Jet does laughable damage to Ninetales. Uxie is one of the best screen user around thanks to its enormous bulk from both ends. Uxie could provide both Reflect and Stealth Rock for Ninetales, making it an excelent support partner alongside Ninetales. Lastly, Rapid Spin suport could be useful since Ninetales doesn't enjoy losing 25% per switch in. Hitmontop could succesfully pull a Rapid Spin thanks to Foreseight, so defenitely look to use Hitmontop. Donphan is another solid candidate since it could provide both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock support.</p>
 
Status: Grammar check / opinion

A set that sweeped my stall team after realizing how hard it was to take down. Tried the set myself and its quite destructive if you're not prepared for it. I believe this deserves its own set, its the best sunny day sweeper in my opinion.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ninetales


Trozeiani038.gif
Trozeiani038.gif
Trozeiani038.gif


_________________________________________________________________________

[Set]
name: Sunny Day Sweeper
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Nasty Plot
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Solar Beam
item: Life Orb / Heat Rock
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This particular set takes advantage of the classic Sunny Day + Solar Beam combination. Only a few Pokemon can run the combination successfully, and Ninetales happens to fit the bill when you're looking to run it. While its fellow Fire-type Houndoom can run a similar set, Ninetales has a couple of things that give it a distinct advantage as a SunnyBeamer.</p>

<p>Ninetales’ blistering Speed gives it a jump ahead over a majority of the UU metagame. This allows her to set up with impunity for the most part without having someone faster to pick on her (gender consistancy) when her HP is reduced. Besides the blistering Speed, her most valuable feature as a Sunny Day sweeper is her Special Defense stat. Ninetales’ high Special Defense stat allows her to combat with many bulky Water-types that normally use specially inclined moves, such as Milotic and Slowbro. With Sunny Day in play, Water-type attacks are halved in strength; Milotic and Slowbro’s Surf can only muster 35.5% - 42.5% with Surf. This gives Ninetales an ample number of opportunities to use Nasty Plot once or twice.</p>

<p>Since this set aims to boost Ninetales’ Fire-type moves to astonishing heights, it only makes sense to space in two attacking moves to provide the best possible coverage. Sunny Day and Nasty Plot make a dangerous combo since it allows Fire Blast to inflict enormous amounts of damage. Even Chansey, the best special wall in the tier, suffers 60.4%-71.1% from a boosted Fire Blast. A possible Flash Fire boost along with the aforementioned boosts will deal 75%-88.5% on Chansey – a slight chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock down! Solarbeam spells doom for most Water-types that resist Fire Blast, and gets super effective coverage on Rock-types as well.</p>

<p>The choice between Life Orb and Heat Rock is essentially a cross between power and survivability. Life Orb provides the raw power to possibly OHKO Chansey, and in general, inflict huge amounts of damage to the opponent. On the other hand, Heat Rock provides the eight-turn sunshine for herself or the entire team. The extra three turns prolongs Ninetale’s time on the field, as it can use the extra turns to deal damage to the opponent while cushioning Water-types hits. (maybe mention if other Pokemon run Sunny Day alongside it on your team, there is no need for Sunny Day and by extension Heat Rock?)</p>

<p>Very few defensive Pokemon can check it when you consider its ability to potentially take out the best special wall in the tier in one shot, and the fact that other specially defensive Pokemon such as Regice and Registeel are weak to its STAB moves. Preventing it from setting up is probably your best option, and you can’t afford to give it free turns to set up (not really that helpful - ways of preventing setup should go here). However, if it does manage to set itself up, anything that’s faster than her are considered counters. Swellow can switch in on a predicted Nasty Plot or Solar Beam, and it can scare her away with Facade or Brave Bird. Rotom combats with Swellow fairly well and it can use Thunderbolt to eliminate it. Priority hits are problematic as well since it can bring down Ninetale’s HP and bypasses Ninetales' good Speed stat. The most prominent priority users are Ambipom and Hitmontop (Azumarill? Honchkrow? Kabutops?). Bringing a Weezing of your own can help check these threats by using Will-O-Wisp to weaken their physical attacks or using Sludge Bomb to take them down. (What about Altaria? Dugtrio?)</p>

<p>Ninetales is a perfect example of someone who shines with Stealth Rock and Spikes support. With Stealth Rock and Spikes deployed on the field, Ninetales could possibly OHKO Chansey with a single Fire Blast. It also leaves Altaria in OHKO range if it switches in on Stealth Rock. Reflect support (from who? example needed) is always appreciated since most priority hits come from the physical side. With Reflect down and Sunny Day down, Azumarill’s Aqua Jet does laughable damage to Ninetales.</p>

(No mention of Sunny Day teams whatsoever?)

Is it supposed to be Solar Beam, SolarBeam or Solarbeam? I wasn't sure, but I'm pretty sure all three variants popped up in there somewhere. I haven't corrected them as I don't know what the correct form is (and I cannot access the grammar standards thread for some reason).
EDIT: Underlined all those I could find.

Other than that, good job.
 
The ev's should be 252 SpA not Atk. :P
And if I remember correctly Ninetails should put the last 4 ev's into defense or special defense so she can switch into SR 4 times
 
I was suppose to label this as WIP since I haven't finished placing the Sunny Day comments and the Dugtrio comments since I had to go that time. I added the new material along with Thund and BMB's edits. thanks
 
Why would you use Ninetales instead of Houndoom? Let's compare their stat spreads.

Houndoom: 75 / 90 / 50 / 110 / 80 / 95
Ninetales: 73 / 76 / 75 / 81 / 100 / 100

As you can see, Houndoom packs much higher Special attack than Ninetales, so it can pull this off better than it offensively. All Ninetales has going for it is the 5 more base Speed and 20 more base Special Defense points. The Special Defense doesn't really help that much anyway, since Ninetales is already pretty frail. I believe Houndoom's increased Special Attack outweighs Ninetales' slightly higher Speed. Also, Houndoom has Nasty Plot to, so it's not like it can't run the exact same set you used.

The comments about Ninetales > Houndoom aren't really convincing to. Houndoom could survive an underpowered Surf from Milotic and Slowbro. Not sure if it will be KOed with Stealth Rock though, so I have to check into that. And anyway, it's not like Ninetales won't be switching into Stealth Rock to, so it only has one chance to set up against those guys.

Oh and by the way, if you think that Houndoom can do this better than Ninetales as well, you could write up a set like this for Houndoom instead. It doesn't have one in its analysis currently.
 
I mentioned in the analysis why. Apart from having a higher Special Attack stat, Ninetales HUGE 20 SpD+ is a huge selling point. Houndoom takes 43.2% - 51.4% from Slowbro/Milotic under Sunny Day. Possible 2HKO. From my analysis, Milotic/Slowbro deals 35.5% - 42.5% on Ninetales. 3HKO all the time. You're also forgetting that Houndooms physical defense is pretty depressing and almost any priority hit will severely dent it. At least Ninetales has a chance to take some. Also the added defense helps take Cb Aqua Jet from Azumarill significantly better. Houndoom takes 70.5% - 84.2% while Ninetales takes 53% - 63.4%. In certain situations, taking Extremespeed from someone like Flash Fire Arcanine could be better. Comparisons again, Houndoom takes 65.8% - 77.4% from Extremespeed while Ninetales takes 49.1% - 57.8%. Sight chance of 2HKO, but the difference is significant. The extra Speed isn't really that huge I agree, but it takes the hassle of speed-tieing with opposing Houndoom, Drapion, Uxie and whatnot.

Dont get me wrong Houndoom is powerful, but from my experience Ninetales is the best since it has more bulk and its easier to set up both Sunny Day and Nasty Plot. Something difficult to do with frail defenses on Houndoom
 
I agree with Franky's previous comments. Houndoom has better sets to run than this one and Ninetails can arguably pull this set off better anyways (Looking at the SDef).
 
I know you mentioned why Ninetales can be better than Houndoom, I said that. I just didn't agree with it that much.

You have to remember that Stealth Rock will knock off 25% of Ninetales' health. That means the calculations from Milotic/Slowbro will also be a 2HKO, like Houndoom. I'm guessing that Aqua Jet calculation is assuming Sunny Day is set up. If not, Azumarill will move first and kill Ninetales first. I guess that's a decent benefit Ninetales has that Houndoom doesn't, but if Ninetales takes some prior damage (which it will due to Stealth Rock + Life Orb recoil should Ninetales use that item), then it will fall under a KO. Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed does hurt Houndoom for sure, but think about it. It's not like Houndoom/Ninetales can do anything significant to Arcanine anyway, as it resists both of Houndoom's/Ninetales' moves in that set.

That extra bulk doesn't really help Ninetales too much in my opinion. The end results are nearly the same if you were to use Houndoom.
 
Ninetails does have another advantage. Unlike Houndoom it isn't fighting weak which means it can't be revenged by Blaziken or NPCroak or die from Mach Punch from one of the Hitmons. It also has the ability to bluff Hypnosis but idk if that's really that much of an advantage.
 
It's not like Houndoom/Ninetales can do anything significant to Arcanine anyway, as it resists both of Houndoom's/Ninetales' moves in that set.

Believe it or not they do. I witnessed a Ninetales OHKO my Arcanine at mint health which lead me to testing it. Assuming Sunny Day and Nasty Plot is down, it will deal 103.7% - 122% on Arcanine. Even without the Nasty Plot and just the sun itself, it deals 51.9% - 61.2%. That's pretty significant to me.

Also Thund draws out some good points as well, I will be adding that to analysis. I just think Ninetales merits its own set because of its bulk. However, I'm not going to deny to power of Houndoom. Its god damn powerful, but its just less bulkier than Ninetales in the end. Ninetales ultimately still accomplishes the same thing Houndoom does but with more bulk though.
 
Well, why didn't you switch in Arcanine in the first place as it used Sunny Day? That way, it won't be able to KO Arcanine. Also, Flash Fire Arcanine will always beat Ninetales. An unboosted LO Solarbeam only manages 23.05% - 27.41%, while a Solarbeam with Nasty Plot up (which it shouldn't even get if you play right) does 46.42% - 54.52%.

Anyway, if the bulk really helps it accomplish a Sunny Sweeper set, by all means add it in.

Also, I think you should refer to Ninetales as 'he' or 'it', not 'her'. It can go both genders, but 'he' should be used instead.
 
I switched in Milotic that's why - a smart initial switch in to do on most Ninetales set. After it used Sunny Day, I went to Arcanine to take the Solar Beam but it used Nasty Plot. After that my Arcanine was torched. Also:
Arcanine | Ability | Intimidate | 70.2 |

Chances are very small for Flash Fire Arcanine to come up. I already wrote a paragraph on how to deal with Flash Fire users in the analysis if you missed it.
 
I switched in Milotic that's why - a smart initial switch in to do on most Ninetales set. After it used Sunny Day, I went to Arcanine to take the Solar Beam but it used Nasty Plot. After that my Arcanine was torched. Also:


Chances are very small for Flash Fire Arcanine to come up. I already wrote a paragraph on how to deal with Flash Fire users in the analysis if you missed it.
As soon as Gallade goes away, so will the 70% Intimidate.

Funny story, Jolly LO Arcanine (you know, the offensive spread) 2HKOs easily with Extremespeed, and even has a chance to do it w/o SR down at all (44.95% - 52.96%). He's more of a problem than you're letting on, as he's not OHKO'd by an unboosted HP Rock (54.83% - 64.80%). So unless you use NP before SD, then you have a problem with Arcanine, if not, you have a problem with Azumarrill.
 
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