Ninetales (Analysis)

Nix_Hex · Feb 28, 2012

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[Overview]

From the dawn of competitive Pokemon until the BW generation, Ninetales was always an inferior Pokemon. Its decent Speed and Special Defense were hardly enough to make up for its disappointingly low offenses, especially given its movepool. When abilities rolled around, even Flash Fire couldn't save it from mediocrity. Seemingly out of nowhere, though, things changed. Permanent sun finally became an option below Ubers when Ninetales obtained Drought, making Chorophyll sweepers viable. Its decent special movepool, including powerful sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast and an instantaneous SolarBeam, allows for excellent coverage. Powerful Fire-types such as Chandelure, Volcarona, and the Dream World-legal Speed Boost Blaziken, as well as Chlorophyll sweepers such as Growth Venusaur, are devastating forces in today's Dream World metagame. However, not all fares well for Ninetales. Its general frailty, weakness to Stealth Rock, and the inability to set up immediate sun as a lead thanks to it outspeeding all other weather starters make Ninetales a liability in some cases. It is also outsped by many powerful physical attackers, such as Terrakion, making Ninetales an easy target. Don't let these flaws stop you from using Ninetales, as its vital team support and surprisingly powerful Nasty Plot set allow you to rip through teams.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: SolarBeam
move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers / Air Balloon
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 184 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Sunny Day seems like an inferior move on Ninetales, given the fact that it sets up permanent sun upon switching in, but Ninetales is easy prey for Tyranitar and Politoed, who typically have no problem switching into Ninetales's unboosted Fire Blast. The goal here is to use Sunny Day while your opponent switches, allowing it to outspeed all weather starters and abusers without a Choice Scarf and pull off an instant SolarBeam. Both Politoed and Tyranitar lose their weather effects, eliminating the usual risks involved with SolarBeam and 2HKOing non-bulky variants should they decide to stay in. Hypnosis is a great option in case your opponent decides not to switch in their weather starter, buying you an extra turn to either stay in and use Sunny Day while they actually do sent out their weather starter or to switch out and trap your opponent with Chandelure or Dugtrio.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

The EVs seem strange, but they serve several purposes: maximize Special Attack, outspeed Adamant Excadrill and all slower weather abusers who lack a Choice Scarf, and survive a Politoed's Modest Choice Specs Hydro Pump and 2HKO with SolarBeam. An alternate spread of 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 160 Spe can be used if you are afraid of Jolly Excadrill, but Hydro Pump is almost guaranteed to OHKO Ninetales with previous damage. This situation is not exactly commonplace, but this goes to show how effective its special bulk is. Any Pokemon with the ability to trap, namely Dugtrio and Chandelure, make great partners to Sunny Day Ninetales. Dugtrio is an excellent choice to whittle away at your opponent's weather starter, but Politoed has an easy time handling Dugtrio. Chandelure can be used alongside Dugtrio, trapping various Pokemon that Dugtrio can't and hitting them hard with a powerful sun-boosted Fire Blast. Volcarona, Blaziken, and Venusaur are all fantastic partners; the former two boost their stats to unbelievable heights and the latter gains +2 in both of its attacking stats with Growth while outspeeding and running through teams with its excellent mixed offensive movepool. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot, allowing Ninetales to actually hit Dragonite hard through Multiscale as well as harming Salamence and Garchomp on the switch. Air Balloon can be used to switch in on Excadrill and force a switch or burn it to a crisp then and there and to escape any Dugtrio that tries to trap it. Hidden Power Ground is another option to hit Heatran, but it eats away a slot that can be filled by a status move.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: SolarBeam / Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting / Hypnosis
item: Life Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

With Nasty Plot and a Life Orb, Ninetales becomes an unorthodox and deceptively powerful special attacker. Infinite sun boosts Fire Blast to incredible levels and allows Ninetales to use a risk-free SolarBeam, offering fantastic coverage with the Hidden Power of your choice. As with any boosting set, send in Ninetales against a support Pokemon who cannot do much to it, boost with Nasty Plot, and terrorize your opponent. To give you an idea of Ninetales's power after one Nasty Plot boost, Fire Blast 2HKOes all but the bulkiest of Dragonite through Multiscale and also has a guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Chansey and Blissey. In fact, no Pokemon in the game bar Dragonite itself can afford to set up on Ninetales. Gyarados? Bulky Dragon Dance has about a 1% chance of surviving Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. Salamence faces a similar fate. All jokes aside, Fire Blast is so powerful that SolarBeam and Hidden Power Ground are merely accessories. Remember that a resisted Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral SolarBeam, so only use SolarBeam against those who resist Fire Blast or are weak to SolarBeam. Hidden Power Ground is literally only for Heatran; Fire Blast already 2HKOes Tentacruel.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

As usual, Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast thanks to 100% accuracy, but the power drop is quite noticeable. Energy Ball is a safe alternative to SolarBeam in case Tyranitar or Politoed decide to switch in, but that's just what it is: safe. SolarBeam's 120 Base Power is just too good to pass up, and once any opposing weather starters are out of the match, you will be glad you have that power on your side. Hidden Power Fighting hits specially defensive Tyranitar lacking a Chople Berry for 69.3 - 82.17% damage in sand and outright OHKOes offensive variants after entry hazards, assuming Ninetales used Nasty Plot during the switch. Use your best judgment in this situation; make sure that Tyranitar has taken enough prior damage, particularly from entry hazards. Hidden Power Fighting still hits Heatran for decent damage and ignores its Air Balloon, but fails to OHKO specially defensive variants. Leftovers and Air Balloon can be considered over Life Orb. The former grants much needed recovery to offset entry hazard damage; the latter allows you to switch in on an opposing Excadrill's Earthquake and then set up Nasty Plot if it has a Choice Band, or simply attack it so it doesn't hit you with Rock Slide. More so than ever, Nasty Plot Ninetales absolutely must have trap support from Dugtrio to get rid of Heatran and Tyranitar, who otherwise don't have much trouble handling this set.

[Other Options]

Ninetales does have the option to run a specially defensive set with utility moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, with Chesto Berry and Rest for one time instant recovery. Toxic can be used on the Sunny Day set, as it hampers both Politoed and Tyranitar. Choice Specs is a possibility, granting an immediate boost to its powerful Fire Blast, but locking Ninetales into the wrong attack can seal its fate if it needs to switch in again due to its vulnerability to all entry hazards and low bulk. For its offensive sets, Ninetales has very little room for attacks. Hidden Power Ice is almost pointless, as Fire Blast does massive damage to any Dragon-type that's not Dragonite behind Multiscale. It also leaves Ninetales completely walled by Heatran. If you are tempted to use Psyshock, do the math and you will change your mind. Not only does it have no business on the Nasty Plot set, but Fire Blast hits Chansey and Blissey significantly harder in the sun, and its ability to 2HKO them outright is a testament to Ninetales's Power. In fact, in almost any case where Psyshock outdamages Fire Blast, both will 2HKO anyway! The only relevant exception to this is Tentacruel, who indeed does have a chance to be OHKOed by Psyshock.

[Why Not to Lead with Ninetales]

A common mistake for new players is to use Ninetales as a lead to bring in the sunshine immediately. It must be stressed, however, that no Ninetales set functions as a lead unless the other team lacks an instant weather starter. The reason for this is that Ninetales outspeeds Tyranitar, Politoed, and Hippowdon, who will always get their weather up, as opposed to sun, when used one-on-one. You might think of reducing Ninetales's Speed to nearly guarantee instant sun in the lead position. However, it is nearly impossible to underspeed Hippowdon without the extremely gimmicky Iron Ball, and Ninetales's high 100 base Speed is almost as vital to its success as Drought! Obviously, Ninetales will be forced to switch out, fearing a super effective attack from Tyranitar or Politoed, giving instant momentum to your opponent. Use your first turn to set up entry hazards instead of losing your weather setter so early in the match.

[Checks and Counters]

Without perpetual sun, Ninetales is at serious risk of being manhandled. Its primary rival weather starters, Tyranitar and Politoed, are able to switch in on any set bar Sunny Day and force out Ninetales as both hit it super effectively with their STAB moves. However, they must be careful not to switch into Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp (especially in Tyranitar's case), allowing Ninetales to switch out and reset its weather later. It is also a good idea to scout for which Hidden Power Ninetales carries. If it carries Hidden Power Ground, only Air Balloon Heatran can switch in, but this gives Dragonite the perfect opportunity to switch in and start boosting with Dragon Dance. Still, both Pokemon fear status from Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp, as Dragonite is outsped and Salamence has a chance to lose the Speed tie, so tread carefully. Blissey and Chansey can easily switch in, threaten Ninetales with status from Thunder Wave or Toxic, and wall it to hell and back. Terrakion outspeeds Ninetales and OHKOes with either of its STAB moves, but it must be careful not to switch into SolarBeam or Will-O-Wisp. All entry hazards inflict massive pain on Ninetales, with Stealth Rock and Spikes taking at least 25% of its health every time it switches in, and Toxic Spikes limiting its sweeping time. Latios and Latias resist all of Ninetales's attacks and can take it out with a well placed Draco Meteor, but a predicted Fire Blast will deal respectable damage to them. Finally, Dugtrio is a surefire way to remove Ninetales, outspeeding and hitting it hard with its moderately powerful super effective Earthquake.

Pocket · Feb 28, 2012

Nice analysis, NixHex! I don't see any reason to exclude Fire Blast on the Sunny Day set. I also think it could be faster - hitting 276 for Excadrill would be a better benchmark, imo. With 12 HP / 184 SpD, Ninetales can still survive a SpecsToed' Hydro Pump in the sun (w/o SR damage)

The ability on the Special Attacker set is Sheer Force :x. Nasty Plot Ninetales is surprisingly powerful - I personally think it's better than an all-out Special Attacker, which finds itself walled by Blissey and other special walls. Perhaps make Nasty Plot the 4th move of the Special Attacker set?

Stellar · Feb 28, 2012

I would definitely mention Chesto Berry + Rest somewhere (perhaps on the Bulky set if you end up writing it, otherwise in OO). It helps when the opponent has hazards on the field and you need Ninetales to switch in one or two more times in order to win a weather war.

Rakan · Feb 28, 2012

I also agree that Nasty Plot is better than what you have as a special attacker. I would also mention Dugtrio in the checks and counters, as it can easily trap and OHKO Ninetales. Dragon-types should be mentioned in CC if you aren't running HP Ice.

Edit: 9.9

Nix_Hex · Mar 1, 2012

Okay, I'm finally finished with this, and am now ready for approval. Tobes, come and get me! Also, I must please ask that you DO NOT DELETE the [Why Not to Lead with Ninetales] section. It is in fact compatible with the SCMS and will automatically be processed as <h2></h2> block like Overview, Other Options, and Checks and Counters. There is precedent for such things on the DPP Porygon-Z and Magnezone analyses (though those may be outdated) and the ADV Slaking analysis.

Tobes · Mar 1, 2012

Overview

Replace "still-legal Speed Boost Blaziken" with "Dream World-legal Speed Boost Blaziken"
Remove the part about Excadrill outspeeding Ninetales in sand. You always want to bring in Ninetales when it is safe on Excadrill so that you can remove sand and make it manageable again.

Sunny Day Ninetales

Slash Flamethrower after Fire Blast
Slash HP Ice after Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp
Slash Air Balloon after Leftovers, giving mention to being able to switch in on a predicted Excadrill EQ or escape Dugtrio.
AC: Mention HP Ground

Nasty Plot Ninetales

Slash Hypnosis after the Hidden Powers
AC: Add Air Balloon and Leftovers
AC: Stress that this Ninetales needs trapper support far more than Sunny Day Ninetales

Other Options

All good here

Why Not to Lead With Ninetales

This was a bit of surprise but sure this is fine

Checks and Counters

This is also satisfactory

Once these changes are made:
APPROVED

Rakan · Mar 1, 2012

I really don't see the point of using Hidden Power Ice on any set. The only thing it OHKOes is Garchomp, who beats you anyway as it is faster. Dragonite also beats you because of Multiscale. Fire Blast in the sun hits Dragon-types for 135 Base Power, while Hidden Power Ice hits them for only 5 Base Power more. Obviously, targets such as Garchomp and Salamence are hit harder, but you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway. I'd much rather have the utility of Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp in its place. It's really AC material at best. Also, I would mention Latias and Latios (to an extent) in the checks and counters, as they resist Ninetales's entire moveset bar a rare Hidden Power Ice.

One more thing, mention Toxic in the AC of the first set or the OO.

Sorry for objecting to Tobes' suggestion, but I really don't like the idea of Hidden Power Ice on Ninetales.

Tobes · Mar 1, 2012

Nah that's fine reasoning, it doesn't really bother me. HP Ice gets an AC mention though.

NixHex implement Omi's changes as well please.

Andy Snype · Mar 1, 2012

add/replace with
remove
comments

[Overview]

From the dawn of competitive Pokemon until 2010, Ninetales was always an inferior Pokemon. Its decent Speed and Special Defense were hardly enough to make up for its disappointingly low offenses, especially given its movepool. When abilities rolled around, even Flash Fire couldn't save it from mediocrity. Seemingly out of nowhere, though, things changed. Permanent sun finally became an option below Ubers when Ninetales obtained Drought, making Chorophyll sweepers viable. Its decent special movepool, including powerful sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast and an instantaneous SolarBeam, allows for more excellent coverage. Powerful Fire-types such as Chandelure, Volcarona, and the Dream World-legal Speed Boost Blaziken, as well as Chlorophyll sweepers such as Growth Venusaur, are devastating forces in today's Dream World metagame. However, not all fares well for Ninetales. Its general frailty, weakness to Stealth Rock, and the inability to set up immediate sun as a lead no thanks to it outspeeding all other weather starters, make Ninetales a liability in some cases. It is also outsped by many powerful physical attackers such as Terrakion, making Ninetales an easy target. Don't let these flaws stop you from using Ninetales, as its vital team support and surprisingly powerful Nasty Plot set will allow you to rip through teams.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: SolarBeam
move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers / Air Balloon
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 184 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Sunny Day seems like an inferior move on Ninetales, given the fact that it sets up permanent sun upon switching in, but the truth of the matter is, Ninetales is easy prey for Tyranitar and Politoed, who typically have no problem switching into Ninetales's unboosted Fire Blast. The goal here is to use Sunny Day while your opponent switches, allowing it to outspeed all weather starters and abusers without a Choice Scarf and pull off an instant SolarBeam. Both Politoed and Tyranitar lose their weather effects, eliminating the usual risks involved with SolarBeam and 2HKOing non-bulky variants should they decide to stay in. Hypnosis is a great safety option in case your opponent decides not to switch in their weather starter, buying you an extra turn to stay in and use Sunny Day while they actually do sent out their weather starteror switch out and trap your opponent with Chandelure or Dugtrio.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

The EVs seem strange, but they serve several purposes: maximize its Special Attack, outspeed Adamant Excadrill and all slower weather abusers who lack a Choice Scarf, and survive a Politoed's Modest Choice Specs Hydro Pump and 2HKO with SolarBeam. An alternate spread of 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 160 Spe can be used if you are afraid of Jolly Excadrill, but Hydro Pump is almost guaranteed to OHKO Ninetales with previous damage. This situation is not exactly common-place, but this goes to show how effective its special bulk is. Any Pokemon with the ability to trap, namely Dugtrio and Chandelure, make great partners to Sunny Day Ninetales. Dugtrio is an excellent choice to whittle away at your opponent's weather starter, but Politoed has an easy time handling Dugtrio. Chandelure can be used alongside Dugtrio, trapping various Pokemon whom Dugtrio can't and hitting them hard with a powerful sun-boosted Fire Blast. Volcarona, Blaziken, and Venusaur are all fantastic partners; the former two boost their stats to unbelievable heights and the latter gains +2 in both of its attacking stats with Growth while outspeeding and running through teams with its excellent mixed offensive movepool. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot, allowing Ninetales to hit Dragonite harder through Multiscale, as well as Salamence and Garchomp on the switch. Air Balloon can be used to switch in on Excadrill and force a switch or burn it to a crisp then and there, and to escape any Dugtrio that tries to come in and trap it. Hidden Power Ground is another option to hit Heatran, but it eats away a slot that can be filled by a status move.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: SolarBeam / Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting / Hypnosis
item: Life Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

With Nasty Plot and a Life Orb, Ninetales becomes an unorthodox and deceptively powerful special attacker. Infinite sun boosts Fire Blast to incredible levels and allows Ninetales to use a risk-freeSolarBeam, offering fantastic coverage with the Hidden Power of your choice. As with any boosting set, send in Ninetales against a support Pokemon who cannot do much to it, boost with Nasty Plot, and terrorize your opponent. To give you an idea of Ninetales's power after one Nasty Plot boost, Fire Blast 2HKOes all but the bulkiest of Dragonite through Multiscale and also has a guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Chansey and Blissey. In fact, no Pokemon in the game bar Dragonite itself can afford to set up on Ninetales. Gyarados? Bulky Dragon Dance has about a 1% chance of surviving Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. Salamence faces a similar fate. Haxorus? All jokes aside, Fire Blast is so powerful that SolarBeam and Hidden Power Ground are merely accessories. Remember that a resisted Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral SolarBeam, so only use SolarBeam against those who resist Fire Blast and are weak to Solar Beam. Hidden Power Ground is literally only for Heatran; Fire Blast already 2HKOes Tentacruel.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

As usual, Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast thanks to 100% accuracy, but the power drop is quite noticeable. Energy Ball is a safe alternative to SolarBeam just in case Tyranitar or Politoed decide to switch in, but that's just what it is: safe. SolarBeam's 120 Base Power is just too good to pass up, and once any opposing weather starters are out of the match, you will be glad you have the power on your side. Hidden Power Fighting hits specially defensive Tyranitar lacking a Chople Berry for 69.3 - 82.17% damage in sand, and outright OHKOes offensive variants after entry hazards, assuming Ninetales used Nasty Plot during the switch. Use your best judgment in this situation; make sure that Tyranitar has taken enough prior damage, particularly from entry hazards. Hidden Power Fighting still hits Heatran for decent damage and ignores its Air Balloon, but fails to OHKO specially defensive variants. Leftovers and Air Balloon can be considered over Life Orb. The former grantsmuch needed recovery to offset entry hazard damage; the latter allows you to switch in on an opposing Excadrill's Earthquake and then set up Nasty Plot if it has a Choice Band, or simply attack it so it doesn't hit you with Rock Slide. More than ever, Nasty Plot Ninetales absolutely must have trap support from Dugtrio to get rid of Heatran and Tyranitar, whom otherwise don't have much trouble handling this set.

[Other Options]
Ninetales does have the option to run a specially defensive set with utility moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, with Chesto Berry and Rest for one time instant recovery. Toxic can be used on the Sunny Day set, as it hampers both Politoed and Tyranitar. Choice Specs is a possibility, granting it an immediate boost to its powerful Fire Blast, but locking Ninetales into the wrong attack can seal its fate if it needs to switch in again, due to its vulnerability to all entry hazards and low bulk. For its offensive sets, Ninetales has very little room for attacks. Hidden Power Ice is almost pointless, because Fire Blast does massive damage to any Dragon-type that's not Dragonite behind Multiscale. It also leaves it completely walled by Heatran. If you are tempted to use Psyshock, quickly do the math and you will change your mind. Not only does it have no business on the Nasty Plot set, but Fire Blast hits Chansey and Blissey significantly harder in the sun, and its ability to 2HKO them outright is a testament to Ninetales's Power. In fact, in almost any case where Psyshock outdamages Fire Blast, both will 2HKO anyway! The only relevant exception to this is Tentacruel, who indeed does have a chance to be OHKOed by Psyshock.

[Why Not to Lead with Ninetales]
A common mistake for new players is to use Ninetales as a lead to bring in the sunshine immediately. It must be stressed, however, that no Ninetales set functions as a lead unless the other team lacks an instant weather starter. The reason for this is that Ninetales outspeeds Tyranitar, Politoed, and Hippowdon, who will always have their weather up when used one-on-one. You might think of reducing Ninetales's Speed so it gets sun up to nearly guarantee instant sun in the lead position. However, it is nearly impossible to underspeed Hippowdon without the extremely gimmicky Lagging Tail (I thought Lagging Tail just makes you move last. It has no effect on Speed, and thus doesn't affect setting up weather first) or Iron Ball, and Ninetales's high 100 base Speed is almost as vital to its success as Drought! Obviously, Ninetales will be forced to switch out fearing a super effective attack from Tyranitar or Politoed, giving instant momentum to your opponent. Use your first turn to set up entry hazards instead of losing your weather setter so early in the match.

[Checks and Counters]
Without perpetual sun, Ninetales is at serious risk of being manhandled. Its primary rival weather starters, Tyranitar and Politoed, are able to switch in on any set bar Sunny Day and force out Ninetales; both hit it super effectively with their STAB moves. However, they must be careful not to switch into Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp (especially in Tyranitar's case), allowing it to switch out and reset its weather later. It is also a good idea to scout for which Hidden Power Ninetales carries. If it carries Hidden Power Ground, only Air Balloon Heatran can switch in, but this gives Dragonite the perfect opportunity to switch in and start boosting with Dragon Dance. Still, both Pokemon fear status from Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp, as Dragonite is outsped and Salamence has a chance to lose the Speed tie, so tread carefully. Blissey and Chansey can easily switch in, threaten Ninetales with status from Thunder Wave or Toxic, and wall it to hell and back. Terrakion outspeeds Ninetales and OHKOes with either of its STAB moves, but it must be careful not to switch into SolarBeam. All entry hazards inflict massive pain on Ninetales, with Stealth Rock and Spikes taking at least 25% of its health every time it switches in, and Toxic Spikes limiting its sweeping time. Latios and Latias resist all of Ninetales's attacks and can take it out with a well placed Draco Meteor, but a predicted Fire Blast will deal respectable (I don't think it's appreciable from the reader if their check takes a lot of damage!) damage to them. Finally, Dugtrio is a surefire way to remove Ninetales, outspeeding and hitting it hard with its moderately powerful super effective Earthquake.

GP Approved (1/2)

Nix_Hex · Mar 1, 2012

Alrighty, implemented the first, ready for the second.

Mafeking · Mar 1, 2012

Omicron mafe
Omicron can you check
Omicron http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3462880
Omicron plz
Omicron

Omicron cuz i can't check and upload

ALL I AM IS A PAWN. ;_;

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Removals
(Additions/Replacements)
(Quick Comments)

[Overview]

From the dawn of competitive Pokemon until 2010 (the BW generation) (asked Omi about this one so grieve at him not me <3), Ninetales was always an inferior Pokemon. Its decent Speed and Special Defense were hardly enough to make up for its disappointingly low offenses, especially given its movepool. When abilities rolled around, even Flash Fire couldn't save it from mediocrity. Seemingly out of nowhere, though, things changed. Permanent sun finally became an option below Ubers when Ninetales obtained Drought, making Chorophyll sweepers viable. Its decent special movepool, including powerful sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast and an instantaneous SolarBeam, allows for more excellent coverage. Powerful Fire-types such as Chandelure, Volcarona, and the Dream World-legal Speed Boost Blaziken (comma) as well as Chlorophyll sweepers such as Growth Venusaur (comma) are devastating forces in today's Dream World metagame. However, not all fares well for Ninetaless. Its general frailty, weakness to Stealth Rock, and the inability to set up immediate sun as a lead no thanks to it outspeeding all other weather starters make Ninetales a liability in some cases. It is also outsped by many powerful physical attackers (comma) such as Terrakion, making Ninetales an easy target. Don't let these flaws stop you from using Ninetales, as its vital team support and surprisingly powerful Nasty Plot set allow you to rip through teams.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: SolarBeam
move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers / Air Balloon
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 184 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Sunny Day seems like an inferior move on Ninetales, given the fact that it sets up permanent sun upon switching in, but the truth of the matter is, Ninetales is easy prey for Tyranitar and Politoed, who typically have no problem switching into Ninetales's unboosted Fire Blast. The goal here is to use Sunny Day while your opponent switches, allowing it to outspeed all weather starters and abusers without a Choice Scarf and pull off an instant SolarBeam. Both Politoed and Tyranitar lose their weather effects, eliminating the usual risks involved with SolarBeam and 2HKOing non-bulky variants should they decide to stay in. Hypnosis is a great (option) in case your opponent decides not to switch in their weather starter, buying you an extra turn to (either) stay in and use Sunny Day while they actually do sent out their weather starter or to switch out and trap your opponent with Chandelure or Dugtrio.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

The EVs seem strange, but they serve several purposes: maximize its Special Attack, outspeed Adamant Excadrill and all slower weather abusers who lack a Choice Scarf, and survive a Politoed's Modest Choice Specs Hydro Pump and 2HKO with SolarBeam. An alternate spread of 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 160 Spe can be used if you are afraid of Jolly Excadrill, but Hydro Pump is almost guaranteed to OHKO Ninetales with previous damage. This situation is not exactly common-place, but this goes to show how effective its special bulk is. Any Pokemon with the ability to trap, namely Dugtrio and Chandelure, make great partners to Sunny Day Ninetales. Dugtrio is an excellent choice to whittle away at your opponent's weather starter, but Politoed has an easy time handling Dugtrio. Chandelure can be used alongside Dugtrio, trapping various Pokemon whom (that) Dugtrio can't and hitting them hard with a powerful sun-boosted Fire Blast. Volcarona, Blaziken, and Venusaur are all fantastic partners; the former two boost their stats to unbelievable heights and the latter gains +2 in both of its attacking stats with Growth while outspeeding and running through teams with its excellent mixed offensive movepool. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot, allowing Ninetales (to) actually do hit Dragonite harder through Multiscale as well as (harming) Salamence and Garchomp on the switch. Air Balloon can be used to switch in on Excadrill and force a switch or burn it to a crisp then and there and to escape any Dugtrio that tries to trap it. Hidden Power Ground is another option to hit Heatran, but it eats away a slot that can be filled by a status move.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: SolarBeam / Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting / Hypnosis
item: Life Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

With Nasty Plot and a Life Orb, Ninetales becomes an unorthodox and deceptively powerful special attacker. Infinite sun boosts Fire Blast to incredible levels and allows Ninetales to use a risk-free SolarBeam, offering fantastic coverage with the Hidden Power of your choice. As with any boosting set, send in Ninetales against a support Pokemon who cannot do much to it, boost with Nasty Plot, and terrorize your opponent. To give you an idea of Ninetales's power after one Nasty Plot boost, Fire Blast 2HKOes all but the bulkiest of Dragonite through Multiscal(e) and also has a guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Chansey and Blissey. In fact, no Pokemon in the game bar Dragonite itself can afford to set up on Ninetales. Gyarados? Bulky Dragon Dance has about a 1% chance of surviving Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. Salamence faces a similar fate. Haxorus? (there's no follow-up sentence for this haha) All jokes aside, Fire Blast is so powerful that SolarBeam and Hidden Power Ground are merely accessories. Remember that a resisted Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral SolarBeam, so only use SolarBeam against those who resist Fire Blast and (or) are weak to Solar(no space)Beam. Hidden Power Ground is literally only for Heatran; Fire Blast already 2HKOes Tentacruel.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

As usual, Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast thanks to 100% accuracy, but the power drop is quite noticeable. Energy Ball is a safe alternative to SolarBeam just in case Tyranitar or Politoed decide to switch in, but that's just what it is: safe. SolarBeam's 120 Base Power is just too good to pass up, and once any opposing weather starters are out of the match, you will be glad you have the (that) power on your side. Hidden Power Fighting hits specially defensive Tyranitar lacking a Chople Berry for 69.3 - 82.17% damage in sand and outright OHKOes offensive variants after entry hazards, assuming Ninetales used Nasty Plot during the switch. Use your best judgment in this situation; make sure that Tyranitar has taken enough prior damage, particularly from entry hazards. Hidden Power Fighting still hits Heatran for decent damage and ignores its Air Balloon (comma) but fails to OHKO specially defensive variants. Leftovers and Air Balloon can be considered over Life Orb. The former grants much needed recovery to offset entry hazard damage; the latter allows you to switch in on an opposing Excadrill's Earthquake and then set up Nasty Plot if it has a Choice Band, or simply attack it so it doesn't hit you with Rock Slide. More(so) than ever, Nasty Plot Ninetales absolutely must have trap support from Dugtrio to get rid of Heatran and Tyranitar, who, otherwise don't have much trouble handling this set.

[Other Options]
(+Space)

Ninetales does have the option to run a specially defensive set with utility moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, with Chesto Berry and Rest for one time instant recovery. Toxic can be used on the Sunny Day set, as it hampers both Politoed and Tyranitar. Choice Specs is a possibility, granting it an immediate boost to its powerful Fire Blast, but locking Ninetales into the wrong attack can seal its fate if it needs to switch in again, due to its vulnerability to all entry hazards and low bulk. For its offensive sets, Ninetales has very little room for attacks. Hidden Power Ice is almost pointless, because (as) Fire Blast does massive damage to any Dragon-type that's not Dragonite behind Multiscale. It also leaves it (Ninetales) completely walled by Heatran. If you are tempted to use Psyshock, do the math and you will change your mind. Not only does it have no business on the Nasty Plot set, but Fire Blast hits Chansey and Blissey significantly harder in the sun, and its ability to 2HKO them outright is a testament to Ninetales's Power. In fact, in almost any case where Psyshock outdamages Fire Blast, both will 2HKO anyway! The only relevant exception to this is Tentacruel, who indeed does have a chance to be OHKOed by Psyshock.

[Why Not to Lead with Ninetales]
(+Space)

A common mistake for new players is to use Ninetales as a lead to bring in the sunshine immediately. It must be stressed, however, that no Ninetales set functions as a lead unless the other team lacks an instant weather starter. The reason for this is that Ninetales outspeeds Tyranitar, Politoed, and Hippowdon, who will always have (get) their weather up (comma) (as opposed to sun) (comma) when used one-on-one. You might think of reducing Ninetales's Speed so it gets sun up to nearly guarantee instant sun in the lead position. However, it is nearly impossible to underspeed Hippowdon without the extremely gimmicky Iron Ball, and Ninetales's high 100 base Speed is almost as vital to its success as Drought! Obviously, Ninetales will be forced to switch out (comma) fearing a super effective attack from Tyranitar or Politoed, giving instant momentum to your opponent. Use your first turn to set up entry hazards instead of losing your weather setter so early in the match.

[Checks and Counters]
(+Space)

Without perpetual sun, Ninetales is at serious risk of being manhandled. Its primary rival weather starters, Tyranitar and Politoed, are able to switch in on any set bar Sunny Day and force out Ninetales; (as) both hit it super effectively with their STAB moves. However, they must be careful not to switch into Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp (especially in Tyranitar's case), allowing it (Ninetales) to switch out and reset its weather later. It is also a good idea to scout for which Hidden Power Ninetales carries. If it carries Hidden Power Ground, only Air Balloon Heatran can switch in, but this gives Dragonite the perfect opportunity to switch in and start boosting with Dragon Dance. Still, both Pokemon fear status from Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp, as Dragonite is outsped and Salamence has a chance to lose the Speed tie, so tread carefully. Blissey and Chansey can easily switch in, threaten Ninetales with status from Thunder Wave or Toxic, and wall it to hell and back. Terrakion outspeeds Ninetales and OHKOes with either of its STAB moves, but it must be careful not to switch into SolarBeam (or Will-O-Wisp?). All entry hazards inflict massive pain on Ninetales, with Stealth Rock and Spikes taking at least 25% of its health every time it switches in, and Toxic Spikes limiting its sweeping time. Latios and Latias resist all of Ninetales's attacks and can take it out with a well placed Draco Meteor, but a predicted Fire Blast will deal respectable damage to them. Finally, Dugtrio is a surefire way to remove Ninetales, outspeeding and hitting it hard with its moderately powerful super effective Earthquake.

[Overview]

From the dawn of competitive Pokemon until the BW generation, Ninetales was always an inferior Pokemon. Its decent Speed and Special Defense were hardly enough to make up for its disappointingly low offenses, especially given its movepool. When abilities rolled around, even Flash Fire couldn't save it from mediocrity. Seemingly out of nowhere, though, things changed. Permanent sun finally became an option below Ubers when Ninetales obtained Drought, making Chorophyll sweepers viable. Its decent special movepool, including powerful sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast and an instantaneous SolarBeam, allows for excellent coverage. Powerful Fire-types such as Chandelure, Volcarona, and the Dream World-legal Speed Boost Blaziken, as well as Chlorophyll sweepers such as Growth Venusaur, are devastating forces in today's Dream World metagame. However, not all fares well for Ninetales. Its general frailty, weakness to Stealth Rock, and the inability to set up immediate sun as a lead thanks to it outspeeding all other weather starters make Ninetales a liability in some cases. It is also outsped by many powerful physical attackers, such as Terrakion, making Ninetales an easy target. Don't let these flaws stop you from using Ninetales, as its vital team support and surprisingly powerful Nasty Plot set allow you to rip through teams.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: SolarBeam
move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers / Air Balloon
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 184 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Sunny Day seems like an inferior move on Ninetales, given the fact that it sets up permanent sun upon switching in, but Ninetales is easy prey for Tyranitar and Politoed, who typically have no problem switching into Ninetales's unboosted Fire Blast. The goal here is to use Sunny Day while your opponent switches, allowing it to outspeed all weather starters and abusers without a Choice Scarf and pull off an instant SolarBeam. Both Politoed and Tyranitar lose their weather effects, eliminating the usual risks involved with SolarBeam and 2HKOing non-bulky variants should they decide to stay in. Hypnosis is a great option in case your opponent decides not to switch in their weather starter, buying you an extra turn to either stay in and use Sunny Day while they actually do sent out their weather starter or to switch out and trap your opponent with Chandelure or Dugtrio.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

The EVs seem strange, but they serve several purposes: maximize Special Attack, outspeed Adamant Excadrill and all slower weather abusers who lack a Choice Scarf, and survive a Politoed's Modest Choice Specs Hydro Pump and 2HKO with SolarBeam. An alternate spread of 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 160 Spe can be used if you are afraid of Jolly Excadrill, but Hydro Pump is almost guaranteed to OHKO Ninetales with previous damage. This situation is not exactly commonplace, but this goes to show how effective its special bulk is. Any Pokemon with the ability to trap, namely Dugtrio and Chandelure, make great partners to Sunny Day Ninetales. Dugtrio is an excellent choice to whittle away at your opponent's weather starter, but Politoed has an easy time handling Dugtrio. Chandelure can be used alongside Dugtrio, trapping various Pokemon that Dugtrio can't and hitting them hard with a powerful sun-boosted Fire Blast. Volcarona, Blaziken, and Venusaur are all fantastic partners; the former two boost their stats to unbelievable heights and the latter gains +2 in both of its attacking stats with Growth while outspeeding and running through teams with its excellent mixed offensive movepool. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot, allowing Ninetales to actually hit Dragonite hard through Multiscale as well as harming Salamence and Garchomp on the switch. Air Balloon can be used to switch in on Excadrill and force a switch or burn it to a crisp then and there and to escape any Dugtrio that tries to trap it. Hidden Power Ground is another option to hit Heatran, but it eats away a slot that can be filled by a status move.

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: SolarBeam / Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting / Hypnosis
item: Life Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

With Nasty Plot and a Life Orb, Ninetales becomes an unorthodox and deceptively powerful special attacker. Infinite sun boosts Fire Blast to incredible levels and allows Ninetales to use a risk-free SolarBeam, offering fantastic coverage with the Hidden Power of your choice. As with any boosting set, send in Ninetales against a support Pokemon who cannot do much to it, boost with Nasty Plot, and terrorize your opponent. To give you an idea of Ninetales's power after one Nasty Plot boost, Fire Blast 2HKOes all but the bulkiest of Dragonite through Multiscale and also has a guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Chansey and Blissey. In fact, no Pokemon in the game bar Dragonite itself can afford to set up on Ninetales. Gyarados? Bulky Dragon Dance has about a 1% chance of surviving Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. Salamence faces a similar fate. All jokes aside, Fire Blast is so powerful that SolarBeam and Hidden Power Ground are merely accessories. Remember that a resisted Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral SolarBeam, so only use SolarBeam against those who resist Fire Blast or are weak to SolarBeam. Hidden Power Ground is literally only for Heatran; Fire Blast already 2HKOes Tentacruel.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

As usual, Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast thanks to 100% accuracy, but the power drop is quite noticeable. Energy Ball is a safe alternative to SolarBeam in case Tyranitar or Politoed decide to switch in, but that's just what it is: safe. SolarBeam's 120 Base Power is just too good to pass up, and once any opposing weather starters are out of the match, you will be glad you have that power on your side. Hidden Power Fighting hits specially defensive Tyranitar lacking a Chople Berry for 69.3 - 82.17% damage in sand and outright OHKOes offensive variants after entry hazards, assuming Ninetales used Nasty Plot during the switch. Use your best judgment in this situation; make sure that Tyranitar has taken enough prior damage, particularly from entry hazards. Hidden Power Fighting still hits Heatran for decent damage and ignores its Air Balloon, but fails to OHKO specially defensive variants. Leftovers and Air Balloon can be considered over Life Orb. The former grants much needed recovery to offset entry hazard damage; the latter allows you to switch in on an opposing Excadrill's Earthquake and then set up Nasty Plot if it has a Choice Band, or simply attack it so it doesn't hit you with Rock Slide. More so than ever, Nasty Plot Ninetales absolutely must have trap support from Dugtrio to get rid of Heatran and Tyranitar, who otherwise don't have much trouble handling this set.

[Other Options]

Ninetales does have the option to run a specially defensive set with utility moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, with Chesto Berry and Rest for one time instant recovery. Toxic can be used on the Sunny Day set, as it hampers both Politoed and Tyranitar. Choice Specs is a possibility, granting an immediate boost to its powerful Fire Blast, but locking Ninetales into the wrong attack can seal its fate if it needs to switch in again due to its vulnerability to all entry hazards and low bulk. For its offensive sets, Ninetales has very little room for attacks. Hidden Power Ice is almost pointless, as Fire Blast does massive damage to any Dragon-type that's not Dragonite behind Multiscale. It also leaves Ninetales completely walled by Heatran. If you are tempted to use Psyshock, do the math and you will change your mind. Not only does it have no business on the Nasty Plot set, but Fire Blast hits Chansey and Blissey significantly harder in the sun, and its ability to 2HKO them outright is a testament to Ninetales's Power. In fact, in almost any case where Psyshock outdamages Fire Blast, both will 2HKO anyway! The only relevant exception to this is Tentacruel, who indeed does have a chance to be OHKOed by Psyshock.

[Why Not to Lead with Ninetales]

A common mistake for new players is to use Ninetales as a lead to bring in the sunshine immediately. It must be stressed, however, that no Ninetales set functions as a lead unless the other team lacks an instant weather starter. The reason for this is that Ninetales outspeeds Tyranitar, Politoed, and Hippowdon, who will always get their weather up, as opposed to sun, when used one-on-one. You might think of reducing Ninetales's Speed to nearly guarantee instant sun in the lead position. However, it is nearly impossible to underspeed Hippowdon without the extremely gimmicky Iron Ball, and Ninetales's high 100 base Speed is almost as vital to its success as Drought! Obviously, Ninetales will be forced to switch out, fearing a super effective attack from Tyranitar or Politoed, giving instant momentum to your opponent. Use your first turn to set up entry hazards instead of losing your weather setter so early in the match.

[Checks and Counters]

Without perpetual sun, Ninetales is at serious risk of being manhandled. Its primary rival weather starters, Tyranitar and Politoed, are able to switch in on any set bar Sunny Day and force out Ninetales as both hit it super effectively with their STAB moves. However, they must be careful not to switch into Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp (especially in Tyranitar's case), allowing Ninetales to switch out and reset its weather later. It is also a good idea to scout for which Hidden Power Ninetales carries. If it carries Hidden Power Ground, only Air Balloon Heatran can switch in, but this gives Dragonite the perfect opportunity to switch in and start boosting with Dragon Dance. Still, both Pokemon fear status from Hypnosis or Will-O-Wisp, as Dragonite is outsped and Salamence has a chance to lose the Speed tie, so tread carefully. Blissey and Chansey can easily switch in, threaten Ninetales with status from Thunder Wave or Toxic, and wall it to hell and back. Terrakion outspeeds Ninetales and OHKOes with either of its STAB moves, but it must be careful not to switch into SolarBeam (or Will-O-Wisp?). All entry hazards inflict massive pain on Ninetales, with Stealth Rock and Spikes taking at least 25% of its health every time it switches in, and Toxic Spikes limiting its sweeping time. Latios and Latias resist all of Ninetales's attacks and can take it out with a well placed Draco Meteor, but a predicted Fire Blast will deal respectable damage to them. Finally, Dugtrio is a surefire way to remove Ninetales, outspeeding and hitting it hard with its moderately powerful super effective Earthquake.

GP (2/2)

Left a point that you might want to consider in the Checks and Counters section. :D

dice · Mar 4, 2012

Maybe add a mention to Power Herb on the NP Set. Politoed will be switching in on you when they see SolarBeam, only to be KO'd at +2

Nix_Hex · Mar 4, 2012

This analysis is up. Can someone make this forum unpostable?

Ninetales (Analysis)

Nix_Hex

I hope you catch a million Pokémon

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me

Stellar

of the Distant Past

Rakan

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Tobes

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Tobes

Andy Snype

Banned deucer.

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Mafeking

channels his inner Wolverine

dice

Nix_Hex

I hope you catch a million Pokémon