Hey guys. I've been a long time Electivire user, but lately it seems that the standard physical (and lonely) sets are too predictable and countered by quite a few common Pokemon. My aim here was to make a set that would surprise the enemy and counter their expected Electivire switch-in. However, this set would also have to do what Electivire does best: hitting multiple types for super-effective damage.
I don't really have a name for this set, so here it is:
Electivire @ Life Orb
Nature: Mild/Rash
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 184 Speed / 72 Atk
~Flamethrower
~Hidden Power Ice
~Thunderbolt
~Cross Chop
Explanation:
This mixed Electivire is meant to hit targets it usually doesn't, while still maintaining great type coverage. The type coverage is at 11/17 (10/17 if you opt for HP Grass, an other option). The list of targets that can wall standard Electivire pretty well but not this one are: Swampert, Tangrowth, Bronzong, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Donphan, and Suicune (there are a few more BL ones I figure, like Venusaur). This set can hit all of those quite hard.
HP Grass vs. HP Ice is a hard decision. Play for what your team needs: HP Grass will take care of Swampert and do more to Rhyperior, while HP Ice does about the same to most grounds while covering Dragons. Cross Chop vs. Focus Punch is probably more personal taste. Focus Punch hits Blissey very hard on the switch-in (if they think you're running an all-special set) but Cross Chop is just as potent, able to 2HKO Blissey. Plus Cross Chop is easier to use/predict.
One thing I would like to get out of the way is that Cresselia walls this set, just like pretty much any other Electivire set (except maybe choice band). Electivire's movepool just can't break through the strong mixed defenses of Cresselia.
Anyways, with the EVs stated, Electivire's final stats are 301 Attack, 317 Special Attack, and 271 Speed. I went with 271 Speed to beat out the large group of Pokemon that hover on the 270 line (dragon dancers, etc).
Something to note from the damage calculations is that, like quite a few other mixed sweepers, the extra little damage from Stealth Rock really helps. It'll all become apparent when you see the damage calculations.
Damage Calculations:
All calculations were done with the EV-spread stated and with Life Orb using Metalkid's DP damage calculator. Also, I've assumed the most standard spreads and posted their relevant stats. For 2HKO calculations, I've assumed leftovers, and sometimes Stealth Rock.
If somebody wants to re-check some of my numbers, that would help. I'll be double-checking as well, but another observer helps.
HP Ice on Rhyperior: 70.62% - 83.02% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)
Calculated with Solid Rock (no sandstorm). An easy 2HKO, even in sandstorm (~60% - ~71% in sand).
HP Grass on Rhyperior: 88.71% - 104.38% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)
Those are the calculations with sandstorm special defense boost and solid rock. Without sandstorm, it's a definite easy OHKO. I guess I just like planning for the worst but hoping for the best.
HP Grass on Swampert: 96.29% - 113.12% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)
Obviously a guarenteed OHKO with Stealth Rock. But since they'll be switching in on you, you'll have used an attack to weaken him a little bit hopefully (barring thunderbolt). All things considered, this is still a good shot to OHKO. CursePert is the only variant that lives through one as it has some special defense.
HP Grass on Donphan: 69.79% - 82.29% (384 HP, 156 SpDef)
Easy 2HKO, in fact it kills guaranteed if they switch into a Flamethrower or Ice Punch.
HP Ice on Donphan: 69.79% - 82.29% (384 HP, 156 SpDef)
Same damage as HP Grass.
HP Grass on Hippowdon: 55.48% - 65.24% (420 HP, 180 SpDef)
A little bit more problematic, but the Hippo is 2HKO'd if he switches into stealth rock and take two HP Grasses.
HP Ice on Hippowdon: 55.48% - 65.24% (420 HP, 180 SpDef)
Same damage as HP Grass.
Flamethrower on Tangrowth: 101.98% - 120.05% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)
Very nice, as Tangrowth expects to munch on an Ice Punch. Instead, it's OHKO'd in a burning fire.
Flamethrower on Bronzong (mixed): 53.55% - 63.02% (338 HP, 317 SpDef)
This calculation was done on a sassy Bronzong with 80 SpDef EVs. These tend to be the Bronzongs with the most special defense. Anyways, Flamethrower 2HKOs with stealth rock, and has a decent chance of doing so even without it.
Flamethrower on Bronzong (no SpDef): 62.72% - 73.96% (338 HP, 269 SpDef)
Flamethrower handles physical Bronzong quite well.
Flamethrower on Skarmory: 96.41% - 113.47% (334 HP, 176 SpDef)
Ideally you'd use Thunderbolt, but this still works. A very likely OHKO, a definite one with stealth rock or any prior damage on Skarmory.
Cross Chop on Blissey: 60.78% - 71.57% (714 HP, 130 Def)
Most people don't dare switching in Blissey anyway on 'Vire, but once they see it's a mixed set they might. This 2HKOs it obviously, and the high critical hit rate helps.
Focus Punch on Blissey: 90.91% - 107.00% (714 HP, 130 Def)
A small chance of OHKO, but it should with Stealth Rock or any other prior damage on Blissey.
HP Ice on Salamence: 118.43% - 139.27% (361 HP, 196 SpDef)
...lol?
HP Ice on Garchomp: 104.48% - 122.97% (358 HP, 206 SpDef)
A possible switch-in so it's nice to know that you can OHKO. But choice scarf will beat you unless you predict it somehow.
Thunderbolt on Suicune: 79.46% - 93.32% (404 HP, 267 SpDef)
T-bolt is very painful on the standard 252 HP / 252 Def Suicune. But then there's Calm Mind...
Thunderbolt on Suicune (1 Calm Mind): 53.47% - 62.87% (404 HP, 267 SpDef, 1 CM)
Wow, even with Calm Mind it still takes tons of damage. 2HKO with stealth rock; still a possibility without.
Thunderbolt on Slowbro: 103.12% - 121.30% (385 HP, 196 SpDef)
I used the standard +def nature and 216 HP EVs, and found that it was a OHKO.
Thunderbolt on Slowbrok (1 Calm Mind): 69.35% - 81.56% (385 HP, 196 SpDef, 1 CM)
Still very threatening, easily 2HKOing. I did one more damage calculation, and found that after 2 Calm Minds, Slowbro still takes 52.47% - 61.56%.
Flamethrower on Venusaur: 43.96% - 51.65% (364 HP, 328 SpDef)
Bear in mind this is annoyer/special wall Venusaur, with 252 HP / 252 SpDef and +SpDef nature. With a neutral SpDef nature it's 48.08% - 56.59%, pretty good chance of 2HKO on a switch-in.
Flamethower on Venusaur: 69.84% - 82.22% (315 HP, 236 SpDef)
This is the choice scarfed version, easily 2HKO'd, and with a Motor Boost you outspeed this anyways. It will die if it has switched in on HP Ice (52.06% - 60.95%), possibly on the other two with stealth rock support.
Other facts:
-Meganium, like Venusaur, only has a shot of surviving a 2HKO with max HP and max SpDef with a +nature. Otherwise, it's 2HKO'd.
-Celebi is 2HKO'd by flamethrower with 252 HP and neutral nature. However, Calm Mind variants and/or special defense variants have a decent chance of lasting longer, especially with recover.
That's what I have so far for damage calculations. If you want me to add some more (relevant ones), just request it.
Application of this set in battle:
Most teams running Electivire like to start with the Gyarados or something that can draw-in water attacks. Then they proceed to get the Motor Boost, and sweep. This Electivire can work in a very similar way, but not right from the start. The best time to strike with this is when teams are worn down slightly. Status effects and stealth rock are good ways to get this going.
Speed is another important issue. With 271, you are able to outrun all major walls and some sweepers (DDmence, Heracross come to mind). Motor Boost isn't required to make use of this set, though it helps out a lot and gives you the ability to take out most other sweepers. Against slow-stall teams you shouldn't need the motor boost.
When I use this set in battle, I include a few important components:
1) Electric-drawing Pokemon. Gyarados works great as always, other waters too.
2) Stealth-rock set-up. Lots of Pokemon can do stealth rock and still serve other purposes as walls or whatever, some examples off the top of my head are Bronzong and Gliscor.
3) An anti-spinner (aka, Ghost Pokemon). Dusknoir can do this, as can Gengar who has an added EQ immunity to back-up Electivire.
Those are just some tips in building a team to support the type of sweeper. Interestingly enough, I sometimes use Chain Chomp as he is essentially a mixed surprise set capable of tearing through walls (and also benefits from stealth rock support).
Counters:
Here are some Pokemon / sets to be wary of:
-Cresselia. Can wall pretty much any Electivire, this one is no exception.
-Blissey with Sing. May come in after you kill something and put you out of commission with sing. However, this is a gamble on your opponent's behalf as he knows he may die to cross chop.
-Celebi running investing in special defense or with calm mind. It still takes some good damage, but it has recover.
-Swampert, if not running HP Grass. Just try and deal with Swampert early on because he'll force 'Vire to switch.
-Milotic is a decent choice, it takes attacks alright. Thunderbolt does 35.53% - 41.88% with 252 HP EVs.
-Choice Scarf revenge killers. This isn't as hard to predict as you may think - Garchomp and Heatran are common examples. Just switch out and live to fight another day if you fear a choice scarf revenge kill.
Of course there are more, and I will update this later with them. Tell me what you think are good counters to add, and I'll address them (with damage calculations hopefully).
Other options:
HP Grass has been moved from the main set to other options. It really only hits Swampert (and Rhyperior a little harder) but in most cases HP Ice is superior, doing the same to most grounds and giving you Dragon coverage.
Expert Belt seems like another good item choice, but all my damage calculations are done for Life Orb at the moment. I'll probably get around to experimenting with it sometime. Focus Punch is being moved into other options because while it does more to Blissey switch-ins, you should really opt for the versatility of Cross Chop.
=========================================================
Well that's it for now. I did come up with this idea myself, but I'm really not so sure how original it is. I got the inspiration by thinking about common counters to the usual Electivire sets and seeing what I could do.
Please give me any comments you have on this, and thank you for reading.
I don't really have a name for this set, so here it is:
Electivire @ Life Orb
Nature: Mild/Rash
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 184 Speed / 72 Atk
~Flamethrower
~Hidden Power Ice
~Thunderbolt
~Cross Chop
Explanation:
This mixed Electivire is meant to hit targets it usually doesn't, while still maintaining great type coverage. The type coverage is at 11/17 (10/17 if you opt for HP Grass, an other option). The list of targets that can wall standard Electivire pretty well but not this one are: Swampert, Tangrowth, Bronzong, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Donphan, and Suicune (there are a few more BL ones I figure, like Venusaur). This set can hit all of those quite hard.
HP Grass vs. HP Ice is a hard decision. Play for what your team needs: HP Grass will take care of Swampert and do more to Rhyperior, while HP Ice does about the same to most grounds while covering Dragons. Cross Chop vs. Focus Punch is probably more personal taste. Focus Punch hits Blissey very hard on the switch-in (if they think you're running an all-special set) but Cross Chop is just as potent, able to 2HKO Blissey. Plus Cross Chop is easier to use/predict.
One thing I would like to get out of the way is that Cresselia walls this set, just like pretty much any other Electivire set (except maybe choice band). Electivire's movepool just can't break through the strong mixed defenses of Cresselia.
Anyways, with the EVs stated, Electivire's final stats are 301 Attack, 317 Special Attack, and 271 Speed. I went with 271 Speed to beat out the large group of Pokemon that hover on the 270 line (dragon dancers, etc).
Something to note from the damage calculations is that, like quite a few other mixed sweepers, the extra little damage from Stealth Rock really helps. It'll all become apparent when you see the damage calculations.
Damage Calculations:
All calculations were done with the EV-spread stated and with Life Orb using Metalkid's DP damage calculator. Also, I've assumed the most standard spreads and posted their relevant stats. For 2HKO calculations, I've assumed leftovers, and sometimes Stealth Rock.
If somebody wants to re-check some of my numbers, that would help. I'll be double-checking as well, but another observer helps.
HP Ice on Rhyperior: 70.62% - 83.02% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)
Calculated with Solid Rock (no sandstorm). An easy 2HKO, even in sandstorm (~60% - ~71% in sand).
HP Grass on Rhyperior: 88.71% - 104.38% (434 HP, 146 SpDef)
Those are the calculations with sandstorm special defense boost and solid rock. Without sandstorm, it's a definite easy OHKO. I guess I just like planning for the worst but hoping for the best.
HP Grass on Swampert: 96.29% - 113.12% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)
Obviously a guarenteed OHKO with Stealth Rock. But since they'll be switching in on you, you'll have used an attack to weaken him a little bit hopefully (barring thunderbolt). All things considered, this is still a good shot to OHKO. CursePert is the only variant that lives through one as it has some special defense.
HP Grass on Donphan: 69.79% - 82.29% (384 HP, 156 SpDef)
Easy 2HKO, in fact it kills guaranteed if they switch into a Flamethrower or Ice Punch.
HP Ice on Donphan: 69.79% - 82.29% (384 HP, 156 SpDef)
Same damage as HP Grass.
HP Grass on Hippowdon: 55.48% - 65.24% (420 HP, 180 SpDef)
A little bit more problematic, but the Hippo is 2HKO'd if he switches into stealth rock and take two HP Grasses.
HP Ice on Hippowdon: 55.48% - 65.24% (420 HP, 180 SpDef)
Same damage as HP Grass.
Flamethrower on Tangrowth: 101.98% - 120.05% (404 HP, 137 SpDef)
Very nice, as Tangrowth expects to munch on an Ice Punch. Instead, it's OHKO'd in a burning fire.
Flamethrower on Bronzong (mixed): 53.55% - 63.02% (338 HP, 317 SpDef)
This calculation was done on a sassy Bronzong with 80 SpDef EVs. These tend to be the Bronzongs with the most special defense. Anyways, Flamethrower 2HKOs with stealth rock, and has a decent chance of doing so even without it.
Flamethrower on Bronzong (no SpDef): 62.72% - 73.96% (338 HP, 269 SpDef)
Flamethrower handles physical Bronzong quite well.
Flamethrower on Skarmory: 96.41% - 113.47% (334 HP, 176 SpDef)
Ideally you'd use Thunderbolt, but this still works. A very likely OHKO, a definite one with stealth rock or any prior damage on Skarmory.
Cross Chop on Blissey: 60.78% - 71.57% (714 HP, 130 Def)
Most people don't dare switching in Blissey anyway on 'Vire, but once they see it's a mixed set they might. This 2HKOs it obviously, and the high critical hit rate helps.
Focus Punch on Blissey: 90.91% - 107.00% (714 HP, 130 Def)
A small chance of OHKO, but it should with Stealth Rock or any other prior damage on Blissey.
HP Ice on Salamence: 118.43% - 139.27% (361 HP, 196 SpDef)
...lol?
HP Ice on Garchomp: 104.48% - 122.97% (358 HP, 206 SpDef)
A possible switch-in so it's nice to know that you can OHKO. But choice scarf will beat you unless you predict it somehow.
Thunderbolt on Suicune: 79.46% - 93.32% (404 HP, 267 SpDef)
T-bolt is very painful on the standard 252 HP / 252 Def Suicune. But then there's Calm Mind...
Thunderbolt on Suicune (1 Calm Mind): 53.47% - 62.87% (404 HP, 267 SpDef, 1 CM)
Wow, even with Calm Mind it still takes tons of damage. 2HKO with stealth rock; still a possibility without.
Thunderbolt on Slowbro: 103.12% - 121.30% (385 HP, 196 SpDef)
I used the standard +def nature and 216 HP EVs, and found that it was a OHKO.
Thunderbolt on Slowbrok (1 Calm Mind): 69.35% - 81.56% (385 HP, 196 SpDef, 1 CM)
Still very threatening, easily 2HKOing. I did one more damage calculation, and found that after 2 Calm Minds, Slowbro still takes 52.47% - 61.56%.
Flamethrower on Venusaur: 43.96% - 51.65% (364 HP, 328 SpDef)
Bear in mind this is annoyer/special wall Venusaur, with 252 HP / 252 SpDef and +SpDef nature. With a neutral SpDef nature it's 48.08% - 56.59%, pretty good chance of 2HKO on a switch-in.
Flamethower on Venusaur: 69.84% - 82.22% (315 HP, 236 SpDef)
This is the choice scarfed version, easily 2HKO'd, and with a Motor Boost you outspeed this anyways. It will die if it has switched in on HP Ice (52.06% - 60.95%), possibly on the other two with stealth rock support.
Other facts:
-Meganium, like Venusaur, only has a shot of surviving a 2HKO with max HP and max SpDef with a +nature. Otherwise, it's 2HKO'd.
-Celebi is 2HKO'd by flamethrower with 252 HP and neutral nature. However, Calm Mind variants and/or special defense variants have a decent chance of lasting longer, especially with recover.
That's what I have so far for damage calculations. If you want me to add some more (relevant ones), just request it.
Application of this set in battle:
Most teams running Electivire like to start with the Gyarados or something that can draw-in water attacks. Then they proceed to get the Motor Boost, and sweep. This Electivire can work in a very similar way, but not right from the start. The best time to strike with this is when teams are worn down slightly. Status effects and stealth rock are good ways to get this going.
Speed is another important issue. With 271, you are able to outrun all major walls and some sweepers (DDmence, Heracross come to mind). Motor Boost isn't required to make use of this set, though it helps out a lot and gives you the ability to take out most other sweepers. Against slow-stall teams you shouldn't need the motor boost.
When I use this set in battle, I include a few important components:
1) Electric-drawing Pokemon. Gyarados works great as always, other waters too.
2) Stealth-rock set-up. Lots of Pokemon can do stealth rock and still serve other purposes as walls or whatever, some examples off the top of my head are Bronzong and Gliscor.
3) An anti-spinner (aka, Ghost Pokemon). Dusknoir can do this, as can Gengar who has an added EQ immunity to back-up Electivire.
Those are just some tips in building a team to support the type of sweeper. Interestingly enough, I sometimes use Chain Chomp as he is essentially a mixed surprise set capable of tearing through walls (and also benefits from stealth rock support).
Counters:
Here are some Pokemon / sets to be wary of:
-Cresselia. Can wall pretty much any Electivire, this one is no exception.
-Blissey with Sing. May come in after you kill something and put you out of commission with sing. However, this is a gamble on your opponent's behalf as he knows he may die to cross chop.
-Celebi running investing in special defense or with calm mind. It still takes some good damage, but it has recover.
-Swampert, if not running HP Grass. Just try and deal with Swampert early on because he'll force 'Vire to switch.
-Milotic is a decent choice, it takes attacks alright. Thunderbolt does 35.53% - 41.88% with 252 HP EVs.
-Choice Scarf revenge killers. This isn't as hard to predict as you may think - Garchomp and Heatran are common examples. Just switch out and live to fight another day if you fear a choice scarf revenge kill.
Of course there are more, and I will update this later with them. Tell me what you think are good counters to add, and I'll address them (with damage calculations hopefully).
Other options:
HP Grass has been moved from the main set to other options. It really only hits Swampert (and Rhyperior a little harder) but in most cases HP Ice is superior, doing the same to most grounds and giving you Dragon coverage.
Expert Belt seems like another good item choice, but all my damage calculations are done for Life Orb at the moment. I'll probably get around to experimenting with it sometime. Focus Punch is being moved into other options because while it does more to Blissey switch-ins, you should really opt for the versatility of Cross Chop.
=========================================================
Well that's it for now. I did come up with this idea myself, but I'm really not so sure how original it is. I got the inspiration by thinking about common counters to the usual Electivire sets and seeing what I could do.
Please give me any comments you have on this, and thank you for reading.
