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As Cancel Cult said yesterday, and why I havn't replied, that is probably enough on Splurpuff. We can add it to the slate. I doubt minds are being changed at this point. Personally, I'm unsure Slurpuff is even viable. If it is it would be C- and B- is wayy too high. Webs / Coat / Misty Explosion arn't droppable and even if it could fit both Yawn and Endevour I'm unsure it is viable. It is definitely usable, but is going to be outclassed in most scenarios at a minimum.
If people are looking for some mons to discuss:
Where should it go? Currently I'm of the opinion that it is A+ for reasons I've mentioned in previous posts and that Sami
mentioned as well.
Where should it go? I'm of the opinion that Zacian-C is also A+, but not locked in where in A+ it should be. Do y'all think it should drop or stay S-?
How much should it rise? Currently I have Giratina-O rounding out the bottom of A+. I think it deserves to rise, but how much?
I have it in A+ at the moment, but would be interested to hear where others think it should go.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Iron Defense / Teleport
44 Special Defense allows Slowbro to live 2 consecutive Primal Groudon Overheats
The rest is smacked into Physical bulk
Using Slowbro in a society where Alomomola is the primary defensive pivot seems strange, as it doesn't have the important Wish attack to support it's team. But I believe Slowbro has a genuine niche over the ever rising fish.
First of all, access to immediate recovery in Slack Off allows it to stay in itself on Physical threats for an extended period without having to waste a moveslot on Protect, allowing it to run an offensive move, such as Scald to punish Physical attackers trying to boost on it, or Ice Beam to deal big damage to Zygarde and even OHKO Mega Salamence after Mega Evolving. It's access to Teleport also has the benefit of, while not dealing chip like Flip Turn does, allowing Slowbro to pivot in the face of tier king Primal Groudon. But, as you probably have already read, Teleport is not the primary option. Iron Defense, in combination with Slack Off, Mega Slowbro's Ability in Shell Armor, Toxic, and Slowbro's good Defensive typing, allows it to reliably sit on many Physical setup sweepers, such as Zygarde, Double Dance Primal Groudon, both Ultra and Dusk Mane Necrozma, and Salamence Mega. Not even Taunt Arceus-Ground is safe, as it is 2HKOed by Mega Slowbro's Scald. By having the skill of being a Gen 1 Pokémon, it also has many niche move options to run, such as Future Sight, Magic Coat, Counter, Psychic Noise, Thunder Wave and Imprison.
Therefore, I think our wonderful little Slowbro, with it's excellent typing, great movepool and ability, and sky-high Defense Stat, deserves a place on the National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings.
No replays here but Samurott-Hisui is a decent Pokemon, and by decent I mean C+ level.
Ceaseless Edge is a broken move and Samurott-Hisui's great matchup into the tier's two best defoggers in Ho-Oh and Giratina-O makes it worse.
I had the most success with Scarf because it does better into offense, but I am sure other sets are viable too. Ceaseless Edge/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Water move of your choice is the most consistent, and should you keep Samurott-Hisui in the midgame, it becomes an emergency check to the likes of Ultra-Necrozma, Arceus-Ground or even Marshadow.
Of course it only works in HO teams that can take advantage of Spikes and doesn't mind Samurott's lack of a good defensive profile.
This thing sits firmly on top of the metagame and rightfully so. I used to think its offensive sets got worse due to the rise of Giratina-O, but it still does a lot of work. Many offensive Pokemon need defensive PDon to function properly. S+ is the only appropriate ranking.
Agree on Eternatus and Zygarde-C in S-. No real issue with who's number 2. Taunt Arceuses running around means Zygarde-C is harder to pilot, though.
Don't care about TB Ground, its speed helps team building a lot, and typing means Extremekiller is not a 6-0 on HO if you choose not to use Marshadow. S- for me
Agreed. A+ below Kyogre and Giratina-O, above Marshadow.
I will agree with Bunboclaat and I'd even argue top of A+. Is a pain to switch into, but doesn't have many switch-in opportunities itself. Low speed means defensive sets get outsped by PDon, and offensive sets means uninvested bulk and thus struggles to take Wild Charges or is prone to Dark Pulse flinches etc. Fantastic Pokemon when it works, just a bit inconsistent.
Not S-. A+ is the most appropriate. Very good Tera user that can turn most losing matchups around, and good defogger but Ho-Oh's the best thanks to Regenerator.
I think A is fine for now. Checks a lot of problematic Pokemon but is easily countered as well.
I'd argue S-ranks are already clogged, and would prefer to move some Pokemon down. Like obviously S+ and S stays the same, but in S- I'd rather only keep Ho-Oh (it's that good), Zacian-Crowned and Yveltal in that order.
I consider A- to be the core of the metagame, and B+ to be great but niche. The current A- is fine (not the order though) provided Deoxys-Speed is included.
Marshadow: Marshadow keeps becoming even more of an anti-meta option as an option that can handle a good portion of the metagame depending on its moveslots, notably pressuring the trend of Psychic-types in the tier, as well as Extreme Killer Arceus, allowing it to pick what it checks for a team and bringing pressure to offensive teams thanks to its good Speed tier, immunity to Extreme Speed and its own priority in a Technician-boosted Shadow Sneak.
Arceus: Extreme Killer is becoming almost mandatory for offensive teams with how hard it hits while also by nature outspeeding nearly the whole metagame and being surprisingly bulky, to a lesser degree its potential on Trick Room teams also favors it.
Arceus-Fairy: More stuff that Arceus-Fairy checks is trending, meaning that it's more valuable as an Arceus forme for the current metagame.
Giratina-O: Alomomola making a strong defensive core with it, and more notably mitigating a lot its lack of reliable recovery turns this Pokemon way more viable than it was before.
Alomomola: See above, additionally Alomomola's support to let a wide variety of offensive Pokemon with minimal defensive utility safely into the field such as Chien-Pao, Deoxys-A, and Marshadow, as well as its surprisingly high bulk to let it wall a good portion of the metagame, in spite of its passivity on its own, earns it being this high in the VR.
Chien-Pao: Thanks to Sword of Ruin this hits about as hard as Marshadow, add to that way more Speed to pressure Ultra Necrozma and Eternatus, as well as the trend of Psychic-, Ground- and Dragon-types in the tier, and you get a Pokemon that can pressure basically all team structures when granted the right momentum, so it really appreciates local fish Alomomola these days.
Only reason it's not ranked higher is out of being weak to Stealth Rock, thus either demanding hazard control or to Terastallize it, and while teams can be built so the latter isn't too hindering for a team, it's still a limitation for its versatility when teambuilding.
Lunala: After some meta developments, bulky sets fell in favor, and instead nowadays it uses wallbreaking sets that put at display its potential better, not much to say here.
Garganacl: Salt Cure is annoying, and it's surprisingly bulky, the main thing holding it back is its heavy reliance on Terastallizing to annoy more common metagame threats, namely as nearly everything in the tier runs coverage that otherwise hits it super effectively.
Blissey: Pivoting sets with Teleport grant it a niche over Chansey, with its obscene special bulk letting it safely bring stuff when facing some of the strongest wallbreakers in the tier such as Primal Kyogre, Eternatus, and after Terastallizing stuff like Lunala and Mega Mewtwo Y.
Pheromosa: Benefits a lot from Alomomola, still rather hard to justify on a team, however.
Mega Tyranitar: It has shown to be legitimate as a stall pick, so a raise in the VR is good to showcase this.
Cresselia, Hatterene: Combining these two as the reason is similar, but basically as they're basically mandatory for Trick Room teams in the current metagame, a raise in the VR is worth to reflect this. Trick Room in itself is the most inconsistent team structure in the metagame, which is why they aren't rising higher, at present.
Heatran: Apparently has a niche with an Air Balloon as it can just invalidate stuff like Ho-Oh, Eternatus, and Double Dance variants of Primal Groudon that don't run Rock coverage.
Ribombee: Fast Sticky Web and paralysis grant it a niche over Smeargle and Shuckle, can be more inconsistent otherwise, however.
Drops
Arceus-Ground: Defensive sets have been slightly falling off by having a lot of competition and opportunity cost as an Arceus forme, and offensive sets have competition with the several other options in the tier.
Palkia-O: Its main STAB moves having low Accuracy keeps hindering its potential, so now it keeps dropping further to reflect this.
Mega Mewtwo Y: Low physical bulk means it is surprisingly easy to revenge kill, teams that use it well basically demand counterplay to priority, limiting it to specific offensive teams and Psyspam.
Smeargle, Shuckle: Merging those two as it's similar, the raise of Giratina-O and fat hinders Sticky Web teams.
Zekrom: Faces heavy competition as a Z-Move user, most notably from Ultra Necrozma.
Kyurem-B: Heavily relies on Terastallizing, and its low Speed and difficulty at entering the field make it hard to justify over the several other Dragon Dance sweepers in the metagame.
Dialga: Even though a more defined niche has been given for this in recent months, the trend of Pokemon whose item can't be removed by Trick make its sole niche as a Choice Specs wallbreaker with Trick barely justificable.
Flutter Mane: More like Fraud Mane, am I right? Terrible bulk, especially on the physical side, and the inability to run all the moveslots it wants to not just be hard-walled by a foe, make it face heavy competition with Lunala, Chien-Pao, and Marshadow.
Grimmsnarl: Screens keep remaining niche, and the rise of Giratina-O to remove them with Defog certainly doesn't help.
Landorus-T: Good on paper, but hard to justify over Alomomola.
Arceus-Dragon: There's a ton of Dragon-types in the tier that don't cost the Arceus slot, namely Eternatus, Zygarde, Palkia-O, Ultra Necrozma, Giratina-O, Dialga, Kyurem-Black and Zekrom.
Arceus-Rock: Hard to justify using over Garganacl, more specifically given the opportunity cost as an Arceus forme.
Kingambit: Heavily relying on Sucker Punch to avoid being outsped by basically the entire metagame isn't too favorable to say the least, there's more consistent wallbreakers in the tier that aren't limited to the end-game.
Mega Mewtwo X: Shitmon, has a rather terrible movepool for what it's meant to do, and generally you'd want to use Marshadow, Ultra Necrozma or Mega Mewtwo Y instead. Even base Mewtwo has more of a niche than it, lol.
Mega Latios: Rather inconsistent and demands redundant checks for what it's meant to cover in the first place, thus overall being outclassed by Giratina-O.
I'm fine with these guys, got no real comments, they're good, it makes sense for them to rise, all cool. Maybe some of them like Blissey or Garganacl are a bit too high, but it's nothing major I guess.
I agree Alomomola is good, but A- feels like a stretch to be honest. It's still incredibly passive even with Flip Turn, and it's insanely predictable which can put you in an awkward position. The healing is nice, and it is a great mon on fatter teams, but a lot of teams don't need it and I feel like A- makes it look better and more splashable than it actually is.
Should be C+ to B- but aside from that... why? It's still incredibly inconsistent, and this inconsistency is a major reason why I don't think its worth using over Shuckle, who can do a lot of the things Smeargle can barring status conditions (although Smeargle can't get momentum like Shuckle can with Final Gambit). It also has insane 4MSS which Shuckle doesn't have to deal with.
Why did she rise? I don't recall anybody using her, and she still struggles with things like Ho-Oh, Giratina-O, Eternatus and Alomomola, so her rising feels a bit odd, especially when the PsySpam hype has died down.
Same question for these two (I'm assuming its Trick Room as a whole) as for Pheromosa.
THAT'S MY GOAT LETS GO also it should be UR -> C not C-
I've built around and used Heatran a bit recently, it's solid but I haven't had major success with it and I haven't seen it from anybody else (unless I'm super out of loop with tournaments right now?) so still unsure why it rose unless it's THAT good on paper.
Drops
Same as before, I agree, these make sense.
These two aren't that bad, they should've stayed in B- IMO. They still do excellently into stall, can disrupt balance quite a bit, and even HO doesn't like them sometimes because those structures have basically no defensive backbones for them to struggle with anyways. Implying these guys are worse than Stall mons like Dondozo and Giratina is a very weird take IMO.
Really wish this guy could be used more, but for some reason it isn't. I guess Overheat Primal Groudon being popular messes with it a quite a bit but even then, the utility versus Arceus-Ground and Zacian-C is still excellent to have alongside pivoting for more offense teams.
The main issue for me. Why? He's not bad at all. Got solid bulk against Pokemon like Giratina-O, Yveltal, Arceus-Dark and Extreme Killer, has good offensive power thanks to Supreme Overlord, and has good defensive and offensive synergy with Pokemon like Giratina-O, Arceus-Fairy and Ho-Oh. Even in the late-game he can be an issue. I don't get it, he's not bad at all, this tier was fine for him.
Cresselia, Hatterene: Combining these two as the reason is similar, but basically as they're basically mandatory for Trick Room teams in the current metagame, a raise in the VR is worth to reflect this. Trick Room in itself is the most inconsistent team structure in the metagame, which is why they aren't rising higher, at present.
Is Cresselia really mandatory though? Trick Room wants Hatterene because it prevents hazards and can consistently set up tr without getting taunted, Horse because it hits the hardest, and Big Fish to prevent TR from getting stonewalled by Zygarde. TR Arceus honestly does everything Cresselia does better (can set up sr, fog, arguably better typing, slightly more bulk, usable offensive stats and movepool) except for supporting Melmetal. Melmetal has been mid for a while though on trick room in favor of stuff like ursa-bm, Pdon and even basc. I'd much rather have a mon that can set up tr throughout the game if shit hits the fan, such as Lunala or P2 which have the option to teleport pivot, or even a non tr mon like zacian or rayquaza that can just blast the opposing team without tr up. Cresselia just feels like the perfect pairing with Melm but outclassed by any other setter when not running that combo.
Is Cresselia really mandatory though? Trick Room wants Hatterene because it prevents hazards and can consistently set up tr without getting taunted, Horse because it hits the hardest, and Big Fish to prevent TR from getting stonewalled by Zygarde. TR Arceus honestly does everything Cresselia does better (can set up sr, fog, arguably better typing, slightly more bulk, usable offensive stats and movepool) except for supporting Melmetal. Melmetal has been mid for a while though on trick room in favor of stuff like ursa-bm, Pdon and even basc. I'd much rather have a mon that can set up tr throughout the game if shit hits the fan, such as Lunala or P2 which have the option to teleport pivot, or even a non tr mon like zacian or rayquaza that can just blast the opposing team without tr up. Cresselia just feels like the perfect pairing with Melm but outclassed by any other setter when not running that combo.
It's not only Melmetal that suffers from PP issues, Calyrex-I does as well out of relying on spamming Glacial Lance, and while you can afford to use other TR setters over it, it still gives it a niche over the other TR setters, which is why I merely said "basically mandatory" over "fully mandatory", as you can use other stuff if you know what you're doing.
Well another slate has come and gone and VR updates are exciting! This post is to provide some reasoning behind my votes. I don't think I'll discuss literally every mon, but I'll try and touch on most of them. The formatting for this post is a little different from the voting slate as +/- doesn't properly encapsulate how I feel about the metagame currently. The | denotes subranks on my voting slate and all ranks are ordered. Any Pokemon in C5 can be argued to be unranked. At the bottom there is a spoiler for how I rank the sets of every mon B+ and higher.
S1 |
S2|
S3
S4 (dark) |
The metagame currently feels quite stratified at the top. Any Ubers tier is centralized relative to others, but the meta feels particularly centralized at the moment. This is the primary reason why my 'A rank' is so small. Despite this, a case can be made to shrink it as it can be reasonably argued that Necrozma-DM is A+ or Ultra Necrozma is A-. The metagame is quite top heavy at the moment, but the mons found within that top strata are both more numerous and have higher set diversity than previous metas. For example, Dragon Dance Zygarde and Calm Mind Arceus formes are surging both in usage and viability.
There is also a lot of room for creativity in the builder so long as it is reasonable. One thing I didn't like about many previous metagames was the degree to which many teams would be rewarded for fishing. There were too many offensive threats running around and slapping some random shitmon on a team would be rewarded far too heavily due to how matchup fishy the tier could be at times. That is still very possible to do, but will often be harshly punished if teambuilding fundamentals are ignored.
In hindsight it is odd to vote for a bunch of additions when the VR already feels a little bloated. I'm assuming the VR will be next updated in a couple months once NDPL wraps up so it isn't a massive issue and might attract attention from some builders there. In terms of bringing a mon to a serious match without matchup fishing (i.e. Ribombee to fish for webs) the lowest ranked mon I'd seriously consider would be Hydrapple. Prep wise the lowest ranked mon I'd actively consider in the teambuilder is probably Gothitelle, though this could be extended to Mega Salamence.
S+
Primal Groudon still sits upon its throne unencumbered by company despite more people than ever electing to drop it. While stall has never ran it and HO has dropped it fairly often, a lot of fatter balances are electing to drop it. There have always been good fat balances without Primal Groudon, but more and more builders seem content to drop it these days. That being said, it is still the best mon in the tier. There is enough of a viability gap between Primal Groudon and Zygarde/Eternatus for it to merit its own rank. Personally I've been enjoying SD sets with Alomomola to keep it healthy to disrupt and break fatter teams. I still think there is enough of a gap between Primal and Zygarde/Eternatus to justify a S+ rank, but all 3 at S is fine imo. I don't agree with it, but it is reasonable and something I can see myself doing in the future if current metagame trends continue such as fat teams dropping Primal Groudon gaining more of a foothold. The difference in the builder when you drop Primal Groudon compared to Eternatus or Zygarde is very noticable.
S
Currently I'm addicted to Dragon Dance sets. They do take some getting used to, but it is so easy to find an opening and leave irrecoverable damage or just sweep. They're kind of silly, but harder to fit than Coil. I havn't seen trapper Zygarde in ages. I do think Zygarde is slightly better than Eternatus, but the difference is miniscule. One has to be above the other and the consistency of Zygarde's sets is something I still value more than Eternatus having a billion sets.
Even though Eternatus has a billion sets, most of them are deadweight into a large portion of the metagame. Furthermore, the increased usage of Eternatus is paradoxically worse for Eternatus as a whole since Meteor Beam Eternatus salvages an otherwise bad matchup into HO via Toxic Spikes. The issue is that lot of these sets are going to have a lot of dead games. Zygarde isn't free from this issue as no set is doing all that much against stall, which isn't hard to cover in the builder.
Each Zygarde set still has its own issues, such as Coil sets being setup fodder for Calm Mind Arceus and Dragon Dance's lack of defensive utility at times. All in all, the stuff that covering the problem matchups for Zygarde is easier than for Eternatus imo. At the end of the day ranking either as #2 or #3 is going to depend on how people value their differenes. Maybe NDPL will win me over to the Eternatus' side, but we will have to wait and see.
S-
[S-(2) -> S-(1)] Last slate I voted Yveltal S[3] when I probably should have voted it S-[1]. It doesn't like the continued rise of Calm Mind Arceus formes, but is otherwise fantastic. Yveltal is immensely splashable, though HO is the only playstyle it is truly a staple on. It feels as though some Yveltal set can feasibly fit on most teams even if Life Orb is far and away the best. It will be interesting to see if people start to favour Tera Flying to punish teams who overly rely on defensive Arceus-Fairy to handle it. Yveltal is still a titan despite Calm Mind Arceus-Dark and Arceus-Fairy seeing a surge in use in part to contain it. Even then, they need some SpD investment to avoid being forced to recover every time they switch into Oblivion Wing. Scarf is also amazing against offense.
[S-(3) -> S-(2)] Ho-Oh faces more competition than ever yet remains excellent. This has resulted in lower usage, but Ho-Oh remains an integral part of many teams. Although defensive Ho-Oh can be passive, it is nearly always going to at least soft-check a couple Pokemon on the other side through phasing or status. This has lead to offensive sets picking up as Ho-Oh doesn't as often require every bit of bulk it can muster in this metagame. Offensive presence is great, but it isn't splashable and has 4MSS at times.
I can see NDPL resulting in a slight drop to lower in S- for Ho-Oh. It is too consistent and splashable for a large portion of the metagame right now, but Alomomola + Giratina-O as a core is strong competition and Ho-Oh faces a more hostile metagame. In particular the surge in popularity of Dragon Dance Zygarde is horrible for Ho-Oh in addition to Calm Mind Arceus-Dark/Fairy frequently running Taunt. It will be interesting to see if Ho-Oh continues to be a reliable glue or if some cracks will start to show.
[A+(3) -> S-(3)] This may be Marshadow's apex. Marshadow fits onto any playstyle that isn't stall. It is a staple on hyper offense while being common on bulky offense and balance. It can even find a spot on some fat teams looking for the offensive role compression Marshadow can provide. Choice Band sets are absolutely crazy and Spectral Thief is nice utility for all of the Calm Mind Arceus formes running around.
True defensive checks are rare outside of Zygarde. Fat teams have options such as Tera Fairy Garganacl and stall has Dondozo. Phys def Arceus formes can work, but the one best suited for the job, Arceus-Fairy, is better off running SpD currently. Yes it is frail and has minimal defensive utility, but it is offensively capable enough to offset this. Marshadow is going to be doing something in most games.
[A+(1) -> S-(4)] I initially thought that Primal Kyogre in S- was a bit of a hot take, but it seems to be lukewarm. I'm still not 100% sure where Primal Kyogre lands in S, due to its splashability. Although Primal Kyogre can fit on a fair few teams, it is less than the other S- Pokemon. That being said, its strength is near unrivaled with few teams being able to handle both sets defensively long term.
Primal Kyogre is very rare on fat, but gets progressively more common as teams grow offensive to where it is may be a staple on HO. Defensive sets have a harder time as any attempts at progress are stonewalled by Alomomola. However, Alomomola teams can have a rough time dealing with offensive Primal Kyogre. Other Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Tera Water Garganacl rising in prominence is not great. Defensive Primal Kyogre is still good, but faces more roadblocks than in previous metas. Offensive sets are just demons that force sequences when they get on the field. Offensive sets are very flexible in EV spreads as it can run max to near no speed to live +1 Zacian-C Wild Charge. Primal Kyogre is cracked, but I the splashability compared to Marshadow has made me go from S-[3] -> S-[4].
[A+(2) -> S-(5)] Calm Mind is in -Esmé Squalor
Calm Mind sets are amazing at the moment. I prefer some special bulk on mine as it tends to be the LO Yveltal answer, but 252 HP / 252 Spe is fine as well. It is really damn customizable and my only hard rule is that it should be at least 332 Speed. Taunt requires more precision, but for a much greater reward whilst Refresh can be chucked into defensive stuff without much care at the cost of being unable to stop them if it isn't ready to boost and sweep. If it is SpD is its a nice soft check to Meteor Beam Eternatus as well which is rare.
Defensive sets exist and are good at what they do. The issue is that most teams don't need defensive Arceus-Dark as it is far too easily taken advantage of no matter what it does. Calm Mind can cover most of the stuff defensive Arceus-Dark does and even defensive Arceus-Fairy can with Tera Dark a lot of the time.
A+
[A(4) -> A+(1)] Arceus-Fairy has been at least high A since the Xerneas ban with SpD Tera Dark Taunt Rocks being a key defensive piece on many teams. It has a polarizing matchup with the top of the metagame, but this makes it easier to build with. Most balance teams can already handle Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Zacian-C. Zygarde alone provides a decent check to most of the Pokemon that threaten Arceus-Fairy and both are flexible setwise.
Calm Mind is trending upwards a bit as Arceus-Fairy is able to grab a free turn against Pokemon such as Arceus-Dark and Yveltal to set up. I prefer Taunt as the fourth move as the teams that Calm Mind Arceus-Fairy would fit on should not have an issue pressuring Ho-Oh. Additional coverage works better with Gothitelle as Arceus-Fairy can struggle mid-game without Taunt to preserve progress. On the whole it is quite nice to have a good and splashable defensive Fairy-type.
[S-(4) -> A+(2)] Initially I had Zacian-C below Giratina-O before I realized that was too much hating and bias was a factor. Zacian-C doesn't lend itself well to my building or playing style very often, similar to Arceus-Ground. Zacian-C is still fantastic, but I really just don't see how as consistent enough for S-.
I've talked a lot about Zacian-C in this thread and the meta discussion thread so I don't have much to say I havn't. I just don't find Zacian-C threatening enough when I use it or face it or use it to be S-. It is rarely a self sufficient breaker or sweeper. Any good team has to have multiple ways to check it outside of stall due to Dondozo. Most of the time this is done without much thought as its best checks are among the top mons in the metagame and are probably on your team anyways. As long as you respect it should generally be fine. It is a good mon, but I spend way too much time thinking about how to compensate for what coverage it doesn't have to be S-. The big thing it has going for it atm is the rise of Calm Mind Arceus formes. Zacian-C can the scariest in Arceus-Dark/Fairy and Arceus-Ground after tera. Without those I'd probably have it below Giratina-O.
[A(5) -> A+(3)] Last slate Adem and Neon had Giratina-O in A+ and were right. The more traditional offense and bulky offense teams Giratina-O traditionally anchors are currently excellent. Furthermore, it is the subject of a lot of successful experimentation, with Giratina-O + Alomomola in particular finding a lot of success. The ability to successfully branch out to different playstyles is impressive and this flexibility merits a promotion to A+. Lastly, Giratina-O is a Pokemon which highly rewards skillful decisions in the builder and in the game and I'm excited to see how it is used in NDPL.
A
[S-(1) -> A(1)] I did consider dropping Arceus-Ground to A+ last slate, but figured I was a hater. After having a while to mull it over, Adem was right on this one (I dropped this from A+[4] -> A[1] last minute). A huge part of any Arceus formes viability is what it can offer defensively. In this regard Arceus-Ground is kind of lacking. As Sami said, it soft checks a bunch, but it doesn't really hard check or counter much. Ekiller doesn't, but that is HO exclusive and it uses its bulk and lack of weaknesses to setup.
Arceus-Ground can do this with physical sets. Those are actually seeing increased use on HO as time goes on which is interesting. A lot of the issue stems from mono Judgment sets being far from splashable in the same vein as Arceus-Water. When nearly every single team has an immunity to your STAB, 4MSS becomes a very big issue. Every set it runs wishes it could have an additional moveslot of or two, but there is probably always some Arceus-Ground set that will cause serious issues for your team.
As a whole, Arceus-Ground is better than the sum of its parts, but lord have mercy do I hate using most of them. It is still good, but after all the samples were submitted I think we had as many teams submitted wtih Chien-Pao as Arceus-Ground and it isn't because we had a dozen Chien-Pao submissions. The only positive thing I can say about Arceus-Ground is that it is seeing more experimentation on HO. I've thought Arceus-Ground was A+ for a while, but the miniscule amount of sample submissions that included it to the point that we reused a sample that is still viable sealed the deal.
Defensive Necrozma-DM remains a husk of its former self while Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM continues to be excellent. It is a great wallbreaker that capitalizes on the threat of Ultra Necrozma due to OHKOing its most common switchins in Arceus-Dark (and other support Arceus) annd Yveltal at +1. Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM is criminally underused. The main thing keeping Necrozma-DM out of A+ is the splashibility of Dragon Dance. The set is fantastic, but can be hard to fit outside offense and hyper offense will opt for Ultra Necrozma most of the time.
[A(1) -> A(3)] Its Ekiller. At this point I don't really see it dropping out of the A even if Arceus-Ground is seeing increased use on HO. Its deep movepool, decent natural bulk, and power make handling it tricky until you know what moves it is running unless you're using specific mons/ sets. Even then using Low Kick on Marshadow is a gamble because of Tera Ghost. Dragon Dance sets seem to be using a bit more to transition Arceus to more of a wallbreaking role with either Tera Normal or Normalium Z. Handling Extreme Speed is easy enough, it is everything else that makes it tough. It rose, but HO isn't threatening enough for Ekiller to rise as it isn't seeing much use outside of that. A+ is crazy to me. HO is not nearly good enough for it to be A+ and it has increased competition. Maybe it was A+ during the Xerneas metagame, but I struggle to see it now. We will see in NDPL. I almost put this in A-.
I heavily considered dropping Ultra Necrozma to A-. It is often so all or nothing and more often than not it seems to be the latter. It just struggles so much to get through its counterplay unless it is Swords Dance X-Scissor on Webs or on Psyspam. Unfortunately, Ultra Necrozma is so scary that it mandates decent counterplay. There are a lot of ways to go about doing this whether it is the more traditional approach of Arceus-Dark, Marshadow, and Yveltal or Tera Dark on Alolomola or Arceus-Fairy. Stall even runs Ability Shield Dondozo from time to time.
A-
[A-(3) -> A-(1)] This is a 'rise' in rank, but the same as last slate. There is enough of a gap between Ultra Necrozma and Rayquaza that they should be in separate tiers. Other than that, things havn't changed too much for Rayquaza as a whole. Dragon Dance sets is still a great wallbreaker/cleaner on HO while Choice Band is a nuclear breaker.
[A-(4) -> A-(2)] Shadow Tag is uncompetitive and should be banned. Hopefully it pops the hell off in NDPL so that can happen. It will always be far worse in a tournament as it is near non-existent on the ladder. We have good enough blanket checks that HO can be accounted for. It traps enough stuff that it is easy to build and not have to worry about being punished by greeding for coverage or lack of.
[B+ -> A-(3)] Putting Alomomola in A rank would be way too high, but it genuinely feels at home with Arceus and Ultra Necrozma. It is such a great support mon and it did pop off in the NDUbers Open. There are a few games that I would have 100% lost if it wasn't for Alomomola healing up other stuff (also it tanked a Deoxys-A Expanding Force). It has some degree of specificity when building, mainly to strong special attackers, that keeps it out of A for me.
Mixed defences are the way to go imo. I remember when Alomomola developments were new and I was discussing it with R8. They mentioned that phys def is only good if the team is very weak to Zacian-C. That statement has aged quite well. Bob's Chien-Pao Semi Stall is about the only one I've seen that wants phys def Alomomola, but even then I'm not the biggest fan of Rocky Helmet on it. The smaller wishes do not really matter in the grand scheme of things and being able to shrug off special attacks and keep up momentum or pass a Wish is far better. If you havn't built with Alomomola give it a go! Giratina-O + Alomomola + Arceus forme that handles Yveltal is a good starting point.
[A-(3) ->A-(4)] I do like Lunala more than Deoxys-A, but Deoxys-A is easier to fit. Though I've voted to drop Deoxys-A, this is because of how highly I vew Alomomola rather than Deoxys-A getting worse. It hasn't really changed and is still a ferocious breaker. I wish Psycho Boost was 100% accurate because of the amount of times I've switched in Ho-Oh to absorb it, have it miss, then have to guess if Ho-Oh is dying to Rock Slide or something else is dying to Psycho Boost. Lead sets should be used a bit more than they are. Deoxys-A is a pokemon for people who are better at mons than I am.
[B+ -> A-(5)] I had Lunala in A- last slate, but did consider putting it in B+ this time around. The deciding factor was seeing people put Meteor Beam to good use on Sticky Web teams. Specs is a demon that just shreds fat / stall and some balances. It is somewhat restrictive, but not difficult to build around. You'll probably want Zygarde + Arceus-Fairy or Dark, but the sets are somewhat flexible. The mon is a nutty breaker and even though the typing is pretty shitty defensively, a psychic resist is pretty nice against HO. Specs becomes a lot easier to play once you realize that Shadow Shield being intact doesn't matter much. Really only against HO to trade with something if needed.
[B+ -> A-(6)] Last slate I almost put it in A-, but settled on B+. The metagame has seemingly deviated more towards HO and fat balance, both playstyles Ditto is great against. Ditto is wholly dependent on the metagame it finds itself in so I can very easily see voting B+ in future slates, but it is hard to imagine the tier developing in a way that Ditto finds itself below B. It is surprising to me to see Ditto being voted on drop at the same time HO is considered strong enough for Ekiller to rise to A+.
[A-(5) -> A-(7)] This slate and last I thought about putting Mega Salamence in B+, but after some more thought moved it back to A-. It has been underused for a long time and I'm not so sure why. An unscouted Mega Salamence is quite scary and scouting the set is not fun. I don't get why people seem to be so adverse to using it. It isn't as though defensive Necrozma-DM is common or even good so dropping EQ is less risky than ever. Dragon Dance Zygarde is more common than ever these days which crumples to it. It isn't as though Eternatus is any more common now than it was back when Mega Salamence saw more usage. NDPL is make or break for keeping this in the A ranks. There should be at least a couple games where it demonstrates why it should be here.
B+
Its Ferrothorn. It has been doing the same thing in Ubers tiers for a decade and a half at this point. Its splashability keeps it out of A- as it doesn't fit on enough teams. This is a proper Primal Kyogre check, not Primal Groudon. Give Tera Grass a go if you havn't.
Nothing has really changed. I spent more time thinking about whether Glimmora should move up to share a subrank with Deoxys-S than about Deoxys-S itself. It does what it wants. Some people I've talked to think it is A- which I don't have an issue with. If I had a lower opinion on Glimmora I'd have Deoxys-S somewhere in A-, but the competition is strong.
[B- -> B+] I've spoken enough about Chien-Pao in both this and the meta discussion thead. The Defog and pivot support Chien-Pao requires makes it hard for me to see it ever as an A- Pokemon. The only way I can see it happening is if it absolutely pops off in NDPL and is an integral part of the strongest teams in the metagame. It had a very good showing in the Open. Adem was on the money with Chien-Pao. Flutter Mane is still fraudulent though.
[A-(2) -> B+] Last slate I went with my gut and figured I was missing something and had Arceus-Water round out A-. I might still be missing something, but in the last couple of months I've made a concerted effort to use it and I don't like it much. It isn't bad, but being an Arceus forme comes with an innate opportunity cost. It isn't bad, but a lot of the time I'm left wondering why I'm using this over something else.
Arceus-Water does have decent set variety between its offensive and defensive sets, but they're all just ok. If a mon is in A- it should have a larger offensive or defensive presence than Arceus-Water does. It does a lot of things, but it doesn't much fantastically and is often very reliant on support. Requiring support doesn't gatekeep a Pokemon from A-, i.e. Lunala, but that is far more consistent when given the same level of support.
I recently built built a new Caly-I team for the Open because I wanted to use it and hadn't done so in forever. I'd forgotten how good it is and probably would have voted B otherwise. The main reason isn't because of an issue with Calyrex-I itself, but its splashability. I want to be clear that I'm only talking about Choice Band sets outside of Trick Room. Full Trick Room and OTR Calyrex-I are both C tier imo.
Supporting it isn't particularly difficult, but it is specific. It wants defensive Ho-Oh, Zygarde, and an Arceus forme that handles Yveltal. There is some flexibility in terms of sets, but these plus Primal Groudon only leave one slot free. Calyrex-I is a great tera user, but its low speed makes it very difficult to build a team where it is regularly expected to do so.
So that is the bad. The good is that you have a mon which hits like a dump truck to where resists don't matter unless they're backed up with defensive investment. It is also a massive threat against fat/stall due to Aromatherapy and Trick. Its bulk allows it live almost everything but the strongest super effective hits.
It is also fantastic against the CM Arceus formes that have risen up in popularity. The exception, Arceus-Dark can be handled with tera as Calyrex-I will always have a tera that sheds the Dark and Ghost weaknesses. It provides value in some way in almost every game and is quite slept on. More people should give Choice Band Calyrex-I a go.
B
I don't think it is quite at the level of Deoxys-S, but it isn't far off. B+ is ultimately too high and I think I'd probably move Deoxys-S down before moving Glimmora up. It pukes out hazards, is annoying as hell to get rid of.
Nothing has really changed for Mega Diancie. Great lead v HO while being somewhat annoying for many balances to get rid of without signficant damage due to its power and coverage.
B-
Grouping these together because they're never seen apart from one other. Stall is stall. It is viable, but not great. If you want to matchup fish go ahead. It is very easy to do so on the ladder given that only a handful of people are playing high ladder at any given time.
[C+ -> B-] Perish Song is interesting and newish. Its an annoying fuck that will somehow always have the right set of moves (at least for 09-10a).
[C+ -> B-] Garganacl has an argument for B, but I don't think it is quite there yet. It is very good, but specific. It is also an annoying pile of salt. I'm a much bigger fan of Rocks Protect than setup sets, but they do have a place. 90/130/90 bulk + an immunity to status is definitely fine in Ubers. It is a tera hog, but it puts it to good enough use that this isn't a big issue. The fatter teams it tends to find itself on don't tend to need tera quite as much as others.
[B -> B-] Fishy fish. Arceus-Dark seeing increased use is not great for it though. It requires zero skill to use and Last Respects is fundamentally uncompetitive. It adds nothing to the metagame and is just a cheese option. If it was a couple points faster it probably would be banned. Dropping a subrank because the metagame is a little more hostile to it currently than it was a couple of months ago, but it will still sweep in a lot of games.
[B+ -> B-] It is still a paper tiger and perhaps the mon with the most variability in the tier. The problem is clicking the right move and actually having it hit. Adem and Royalpalme were right last slate. The problem is that even the best clickers can't salvage its poor matchups which are very common.
It is still great at breaking balance and some BO cores and love the shift towards Calm Mind Arceus formes. It still isn't used enough. Adem is still wrong about it.
[B+ -> B-] I've tried again and again to make this work well. Even when building around it, it still feels outclassed. MMY isn't far from being a good mon, but falling just short is still falling short. At this point the main selling point is a breaker which shreds Eternatus. This is really the only reason I don't have it in C+. It is a very fast mon that still feels like it mandates additional speed control. 4MSS makes it so that it is going to have roadblocks in most games despite having some very good matchups where it plots 10 turns in and sweeps. I'd say to use it on HO, but there it is somehow worse. Outspeeding Zacian-C due to webs is great, but it doesn't OHKO and is OHKOed in return. It is outclassed on Psyspam as well.
[C+ -> B-] Bobsican and Big Bauren experimenting with Teleport Blissey is enough for it to share a subrank with Chansey. Chansey is still usually better on stall, but it is much better in this role due to boots.
[B -> B-] Arceus-Ghost really does not love the Arceus-Dark resurgence. Back in the Xerneas metagame it was a lot better when it had Xerneas and Zacian-C to effortlessly break it. Consequently, it has become a lot harder to fit on HO squads as taking up both the Arceus slot and the Z slot more often not is a lot. It is still decent when built around, but doing so is quite difficult. It is borderline C+ and it is quite likely I'll vote it there if nothing changes.
C+
[B- -> C+]It is the more consistent Sticky Web setter, but Smeargle has a much higher ceiling and is still very good at getting them up. Shuckle is still fine.
Nothing has changed. It is a really good mon that requires the team to be built around it. This usually involves Gothitelle, but Gothitelle is broken so it is not a big deal. It is probably my favourite of the C+ and even B- ranks. In this metagame Grass-types are great if you build around them. A Ground and Water resist without being weak to Stealth Rock is fantastic. Psyspam is about the same. There has been some minor experimentation in the last couple of months, but nothing super recent. Maybe someone will find some heat in NDPL. It is still the same: great on webs, dogshit off of them. I intially had it in B- but it isn't a webs staple and sharing a subrank with the best webs setter felt off. It is fun to use, but not super fun to play against. That 100 speed is great, but it does fall victim to Timid Arceus only needing 4 EVs to outspeed it as it is already investing to outspeed Yveltal. [B- -> C+] This is the same vote as the last slate so this is a drop by technicality. I generally find it to be a worse Kyurem-Black with a slightly higher payoff. It has to nail that Devastating Drake and is good v stall. It only fits on HO and is only alright there. [C -> C+] It does not hit hard enough without a Choice Band. Pheromosa may be a bit of a U-turn bot early game, but it'll find turns to launch a devastating attack. The chip from hazards doesn't really matter since it is going to die if it takes a hit anyways. It is good on some offensive teams. [C -> C+] I've tested an used it a bit recently and it is just good enough to squeeze into C+. It doesn't require Gothitelle support unlike Arceus-Grass, but is harder to get onto the field and the Stealth Rock weakness does sting a bit. It is a fun wincon.
C
[UR -> C] See Bob's and Sami's posts earlier in the thread. Arceus-Rock is still a cool antimeta mon. It is only ever going to be on a handful of teams, but it plays a large role in what makes them click. [C+ -> C] When I look at my C votes Dialga feels out of place. It can do a bunch of stuff, but it doesn't really do any of it particularly well. The Pokemon I have in C+ are all kind of specific, but pop off when given the right support or are the support themselves. In comparison Dialga is kind of there. Its typing is a double-edged sword that helps as much as it hinders. The big defensive benefits of both of its typings cancel each other out in not a great way. A poison immunity is great, but its other resitances don't really factor in much. It is also neutral at best to most offensive threats without even though the Pyshic resist is nice, it still gets deleted by Ultra Necrozma's Earthquake. It does have some good traits that let it slot into a couple of teams, but these arn't enough for C+. [C+ -> C] I havn't seen a new Lando-T team in ages. I was hoping someone would build one for the open, but no one did. A lot of people used Adem's team. It has a place in the metagame, but C+ is a bit too high for me. Great typing and power, but it struggles to do much before the endgame. The worst thing about the speed is needing Jolly to outspeed the common base 90. In doing so it looses a lot of OHKOes so Adamant and Sucker Punch mindgames it is. [C+ -> C] Intially I had this above Hydrapple. I'm a Flutter Mane hater, but that is too much hating even for me. It is better than Trick Room but that isn't saying much. C- last slate was hating a bit too much. It is still Flutter Fraud. I do like Flutter (Misdreavus is one of my favourite mons), but unbanning Koraidon is not worth it so that Flutter Mane can be good again.
[C- -> C] Trick Room is shit, but viable. It is on every Trick Room team. A lot of Trick Room teams drop Melmetal but none drop Hattterene. It is a subrank higher for that reason. Hatterene itself and Trick Room as an archetype are not any better. Run it if you want to fish for HO, otherwise don't bother.
Don't really have much to say about Arceus-Steel. I've tried it and its ok, but not my thing. R8 is a believer though.
[C- ->C] I want to say nothing has changed, but Mega Tyranitar has seen some experimentation off of stall. Even ignoring that, it probably should have been C previously. It is more of sidegrade than straight downgrade to Arceus-Dark on stall. Losing to Ultra Necrozma sucks, not caring about LO Yveltal in the slightest is great. Adem and Neon have voted it to C+ and that is a bit too high for me currently, but if they want to discuss their votes that is for them. Mega Tyranitar is a mon that feels underexplored. Maybe it will forever be relegated to a niche option of stall, but I do think some teams can make use of it. In the 60ish odd NDPL games I can see someone making some heat with it.
[UR -> C] Bob usually does one of these types of posts as well and it is better to read whatever he happens to write as Bob is the reason Wobb is voted on. He's used it on a variation of his Chien-Pao Semistall with Alomomola as support to bring it in. Wobb is better at trapping some offensive mons that Gothitelle can't. Shadow Tag is uncompetitive. Intially I had this at C- (below grimmsnarl), but after thinking about it more and discussing Wobb with Bob C is fine. Wobb strikes me as a mon that could be B- at some point, but is currently underexplored.
C-
It is a flawed, but interesting mon. It has a nice collection of attributes between recovery, pivoting, its typing + ground immunity, and whatever it chooses in that last moveslot.
[UR -> C-] It is a cool mon with either AV or Nasty Plot. Most Grass-types that are not complete shitmons can probably carve out some sort of niche. That being said, I'm not sure what is left to plumb. Bulu is too slow, but Meowscarda seems interesting.
[C+ -> C-] It is viable, but use Deoxys-S. It is rarely good beyond a screens mirror w/ Deoxys-S. I voted C last time and that because I felt C- was too harsh since it is viable.
4th best Trick Room setter and it is viable. It shouldn't be seen without Melmetal.
[C -> C-] It is viable, but meh. Calyrex-I + Primals are still the way to go imo. It requires Cresselia over Arceus as a setter since it will almost always run out of PP. Nothing about Melmetal has changed, I just think it should be a subrank below Hatterene.
Runo's baby. I guess I kinda see it, but I've seldom used it. I'm not a HO player and consequently Treads doesn't tend to have the best of matchups into most of my teams. Its ok, but it and everything below it could be D/UR and I'd be fine. It is a good HO anti-lead.
[UR -> C-] It is a Webs lead that beats other webs leads and has a nice movepool to plumb from. As mentioned recently, Webs and Imprison are mandatory. Arguably Moonblast as well, but there are a lot of moves that can be decent in that last slot. It is a Gholdengo-esque mon in that it definitely has a niche, but whether or not that niche is valuable enough to be ranked is the real question. Right now I think the answer is yes, but Ribombee very easily could be the type of mon that sees some interest. Ribombee isn't a mon I'm likely to use in a serious match, but there are reasons to bring it.
Gholdengo definitely has its niche of completely stuffing passive balances that overly rely on Ho-Oh and don't have multiple mons that threaten it. I'm not sure whether that niche is valuable enough to be ranked. Those teams seem to have become increasingly rare since Xerneas left and I'm not sure that they are common enough to justify Gholdengo's spot on the VR. I'll give it one more slate before voting it to D. I'd load a Gholdengo fat before Trick Room or screens, but that is not a ringing endorsement coming from me.
[UR -> C-] Heatran has teetered on the edge of viability for a long time. It is Gholdengo-esque in that it has definitely has a niche, but the real question is whether that niche makes it worth ranking. My vote is mainly based off of Air Balloon which completely walls some Primal Groudon and most defensive Ho-Oh's while being decent into Eternatus. The Primal Groudon which Heatran aims to wall, defensive Overheat, is seeing high enough usage atm to justify ranking Heatran imo.
[C -> C-] I voted abstain the last two slates. R8 thinks it can do something, but isn't sure what it is last time we spoke about it. I've seen it put in some work in a couple of games, but I'm not really sure it deserves to be ranked. NDPL/NDFL in the future will determine whether Ursaluna-BM remains on the VR for me. I've seen it on R8's Trios team and on some TR with Tera Normal Blood Moon + Hyper Voice to get past Ho-Oh. The TR niche is something, but I'm not sure how you'd fit it onto a serious TR team.
[UR -> C-] There was a fair amount of discussion about Mewtwo in this thread recently. At the time I'd planned to vote C-, but the more I've thought about it the more unsure I become. I've gone back and forth between C- and D. Yeah there is the wall of calcs (not accompanied by replays) that show what it can do. At the same time, if you give a lot of the D rank mons free entry, tera, and a free boost they can do similar things. The C- vote is more of an acknowledgment of its small niche on stall than the LO set. Both add up to enough that it can eek out a spot at the bottom. Despite this, I can very easily see myself voting Mewtwo to D next slate. I think we might be a bit too generous in what is considered viable for VR purposes. I'd be fine 86ing everything after Melmetal and maybe one or two things above it.
UR
[C- -> D] Nearly everytime Arceus-Dragon is brought up it is because someone is asking what it does. I was told a while ago that it checks both Primals. If this wasn't an Arceus forme, maybe that would be enough for a niche, but the opportunity cost is too high. I don't know how many NDUbers games I've played since I've started, but it is a lot and I can count the number of times I've seen Arceus-Dragon on a single hand.
[C- -> D] I've flip-flopped between C- and D a bunch of times. While I'm somewhat confident in moving MMX to D, part of me thinks it has enough potential to remain C-. At the same time, so much of any value it gets whenever I see or face MMX is due to the assumption that it is MMY. This isn't something I rate very highly as even a C- mon should be able to perform consistently without the element of surprise. Lots of mons have 4MSS, but MMX has a poor physical movepool on top of 4MSS. I'm not against it being C-, but I've essentially written this paragraph everytime I've talked about MMX for almost a year. The most success I've had w MMX is running NP for STAB Focus Blast.
Defensive: S+
Utility SD: S/S-
Double Dance: A
Eruption: B
Offensive Support: B
SD Overheat: C+
Dragon Dance: S
Coil (Glare): S/S-
Coil (Dragon Tail):S-/A+
Coil (Toxic): A
Coil (SpD): A-
Trapper: B
Dragon Tail + Toxic: C/C+
Wallbreaker: S/S-
Defensive: A+
Meteor Beam: A-
Shucca Berry / Air Balloon: B/B+
Choice Specs: B-
Life Orb: C
Z Move: C-
Should be C+ to B- but aside from that... why? It's still incredibly inconsistent, and this inconsistency is a major reason why I don't think its worth using over Shuckle, who can do a lot of the things Smeargle can barring status conditions (although Smeargle can't get momentum like Shuckle can with Final Gambit). It also has insane 4MSS which Shuckle doesn't have to deal with.
Yes Shuckle is a bit more consistent at getting up webs, but not by much. They both struggle to get a webs advantage v HO and Smeargle has 4MSS, but it is very rewarding to those who keep up with the current state of the metagame (i.e. people fitting Perish Song for Dragon Dance Zygarde). Smeargle is much more of a pain in the ass against teams where it'd fail to get webs up but Shuckle would. Ultimately, the much higher ceiling that Smeargle has makes up for the slightly higher consistency of Shuckle for me.
I agree Alomomola is good, but A- feels like a stretch to be honest. It's still incredibly passive even with Flip Turn, and it's insanely predictable which can put you in an awkward position. The healing is nice, and it is a great mon on fatter teams, but a lot of teams don't need it and I feel like A- makes it look better and more splashable than it actually is.
Flip Turn is what prevents it from being overly passive imo as Pokemon that would want to use it as setup fodder such as Calm Mind Arceus formes are unable to do so. Predictability isn't a bad thing if it can't be punished and the mons that can punish Alomomola for being predictable are few and far between. I think you should definitely try it on some stuff that isn't so fat if you havn't. It generally works better on those types of teams than super fat balances / semi stall imo.
Why did she rise? I don't recall anybody using her, and she still struggles with things like Ho-Oh, Giratina-O, Eternatus and Alomomola, so her rising feels a bit odd, especially when the PsySpam hype has died down.
My C+ vote didn't come from ladder, but from testing a couple of weeks ago. Band Phero just kinda pivots and breaks down a lot of balances / offences that rely on stuff like Choice Scarf Yveltal or Zacian-C for speed control. It is a bit of a U-turn bot, but outside of Ho-Oh its coverage is very annoying to switch into and Ho-Oh doesn't take Triple Axel well with a small bit of chip.
I don't think Trick Room is any better, but voted Hatterene to C as it being a subtier below Melmetal when TR should never been seen w/o Hatterene is something that has bugged me for a while. I don't agree with Bob about Cresselia and Caly-I. If Caly-I is running out of Glacial Lance PP the TR team probably isn't winning even with Lunar Dance. Melmetal requires Cresselia, but if you're not running Melmetal on your TR Lunala / Arceus is a better way to go imo.
I've built around and used Heatran a bit recently, it's solid but I haven't had major success with it and I haven't seen it from anybody else (unless I'm super out of loop with tournaments right now?) so still unsure why it rose unless it's THAT good on paper.
These two aren't that bad, they should've stayed in B- IMO. They still do excellently into stall, can disrupt balance quite a bit, and even HO doesn't like them sometimes because those structures have basically no defensive backbones for them to struggle with anyways. Implying these guys are worse than Stall mons like Dondozo and Giratina is a very weird take IMO.
I agree with the points you brought up (voted Ky-B B-), but the precision that Zekrom requires in getting off that Z move is too much to the point where it can be inconsistent even in good matchups. The stall mons can be taken as a placeholder for stall as a whole since they're never dropped. The Unova Dragons do not have that luxury. I think both can potentially pop off in NDPL fwiw.
Really wish this guy could be used more, but for some reason it isn't. I guess Overheat Primal Groudon being popular messes with it a quite a bit but even then, the utility versus Arceus-Ground and Zacian-C is still excellent to have alongside pivoting for more offense teams.
The main reason for me is that I haven't seen it on a new team in forever (its only appearences in the Open were on Adems Chien-Pao BO). C- was a bit of a surprise to me, but for a mon thats whole thing is decent role compression it should be used more often than that (C- is a bit harsh imo)
The main issue for me. Why? He's not bad at all. Got solid bulk against Pokemon like Giratina-O, Yveltal, Arceus-Dark and Extreme Killer, has good offensive power thanks to Supreme Overlord, and has good defensive and offensive synergy with Pokemon like Giratina-O, Arceus-Fairy and Ho-Oh. Even in the late-game he can be an issue. I don't get it, he's not bad at all, this tier was fine for him.
I'm making the assumption that you're always running Fire Blast on MMY. Ironically this is the same roll Eternatus has to OHKO Zacian-C with +1 Fire Blast which I don't consider reliable in the slightest. It is a guessing game and I wouldn't consider MMY a good answer to Ultra Necrozma. 18.8% is not something to rely on.
This is fine? If it is Tera Fairy it means it is usually running Recover so it is a trade of tera for tera at worst.
Yeah I did. +1 Zygarde Complete hits 396 speed by the way. +1 Zygarde 50% hits 426.
I'm not sure how you think it doesn't? I was talking about CB which I should have clarified. If rocks are up and it takes literally any attack it is dead. Even something as weak as an Alomomola Flip Turn or toxicing it nearly puts it in range after it uses a single attack. Having a Toxic Spike up puts it in range. If it is LO sure.
We have lots of great stallbreakers and I guess Mewtwo is passable? I'd certainly run most of these Mewtwo. I'd say most of them are signficantly better than Mewtwo with the exception of Marshadow which I don't find to be a good stallbreaker. Water Spout Primal Kyogre is really only a Sticky Web thing and it is a much better stallbreaker on paper than in game. It has to be played incredibly precisely and the moment a Toxic Spike goes up it no longer is.
Yeah some of them are relying on tera, but they also arn't chipping themselves with every single attack that they also have to get right. Rayquaza has the issue of 8 PP and can U-Turn on everything but Arceus-Dark which doesn't OHKO with Foul Play so it has some margin for error. I'd add Choice Specs Lunala and defensive Primal Kyogre to this list which is far better at breaking stall than the offensive set. Breaking stall is not particularly difficult.
Why? This set has been around for a long ass time at this point. It wasn't created last week. There isn't really much point in sending them to me as I'm of the opinion that MMY could be ranked. Its just that you're hyping something up and going trust me mate. I'm fine voting for it C-, but other voters are probably going to want to see some replays where it does stuff that couldn't be replicated by some other mon.
For the record, we just witnessed a player winning the NDUB Open tournament by using stall to get a victory in every round, including in the final against you, so I won't say that the player base are well-equipped to handle stall. That player himself believes that regular M2 is an absolute stall killer. Sure, there are lots of tools against stall, but putting them into a solid team is another thing.
For the stats, regular M2's usage rate in the past two months' high ranking ladder is quite high, and that's something.
Every experienced player has his/her own VB ranking, and I don't care that much if the official one is misleading or not. For me, the power of M2 is self-explanatory, and if this thread disagrees with me, so be it. 394 is actually a very good speed tier in a meta without those two motors. It's not about giving a D tier pokemon so many resources, the problem is the D tier itself. If you ask why M2 could always get a boost, maybe the reason is that it outspeeds so many and threatens a KO against so many without a boost. In some cases you stay in and don't want to give it a free nasty plot, then you lose a pokemon.
I'll just start with saying I don't get why I'm being tagged here when:
1. Of the people who voted I actually engaged with you and agreed it that Mewtwo is viable
2. I voted for it to be ranked and you've tagged me to complain rather than others who voted it D.
For the record, we just witnessed a player winning the NDUB Open tournament by using stall to get a victory in every round, including in the final against you, so I won't say that the player base are well-equipped to handle stall. That player himself believes that regular M2 is an absolute stall killer. Sure, there are lots of tools against stall, but putting them into a solid team is another thing.
I am very aware of this. I loaded the wrong team and part of the reason I stopped running it was due to Refresh over Taunt making the matchup against fat and more specifically stall quite annoying, hence why I only loaded it once throughout the rest of the tournament. Stall is acknowledged for its niche, hence the big 3 of stall all being ranked B-. Something can simultaneously be considered viable and mediocre. Stall has remained around the same level of power throughout the history of the tier in that it is viable, but ultimately is a matchup fish. If I'd brought the team I brought G1 with Specs Lunala and Band Ray that wouldn't really change my opinion of stall. I don't think it is as difficult to have solid stallbreaking tools on most teams outside of some HO archetypes so we can disagree there.
I certaintly can agree that Mewtwo can be a stall killer, but the question is it worthwhile running this compared to everything else available? Personally my answer is no, but maybe there is something there. Hence the C- vote. As you mention, every experienced player is going to have a personal VR and while there are similarities, that bottom layer can differ quite a lot from player to player. For example, I doubt many other people consider Hydrapple viable.
It might be something, it might not be. I'm going to assume that we've both played on the ladder enough to know that context is everything. A huge portion of the ladder can only be summed up as tomfoolery while a lot of high ladder is mostly a couple of people playing on multiple accounts. For example, a single person more or less had enough of an impact that they were able to get Life Orb Zygarde to 10% of all Zygardes. This isn't some uncommon mon one person is running. Furthermore, Focus Sash Marshadow while 25% this month, has historically been around 40% or so despite being an unset.
I don't discount ladder usage, but saying 'something does well on ladder' without replays doesn't mean much. I'm glad you've decided to post some. I have barely touched the ladder this month so I'm not going to pretend to be completely in tune with what is being run there, but I'd be surprised if this is the month that the ladder has pivoted to somewhat resemble the actual metagame given Lugia and Melmetals continued use.
Every experienced player has his/her own VB ranking, and I don't care that much if the official one is misleading or not. For me, the power of M2 is self-explanatory, and if this thread disagrees with me, so be it. 394 is actually a very good speed tier in a meta without those two motors. It's not about giving a D tier pokemon so many resources, the problem is the D tier itself. If you ask why M2 could always get a boost, maybe the reason is that it outspeeds so many and threatens a KO against so many without a boost. In some cases you stay in and don't want to give it a free nasty plot, then you lose a pokemon.
394 is a good, not great speed tier for an offensive mon. Yeah 394 is fast as hell and going to outspeed all the defensive mons, but it isn't blazing for an offensive one. It isn't a Deoxys-A situation where being outsped by Pheromosa sucks, but realistically it is going to be the fastest mon on either team most games outside of priority or scarfers. Even if I don't think Zacian-C is S-, you're still going to be running into it a lot, on top of other stuff like Deoxys-A, Chien-Pao, even MMY. One of the things I don't like about MMY is that it is a fast mon that feels like it requires additional speed control and that applies to Mewtwo as well.
I'd also like to clarify that Mewtwo isn't 'always' getting these boosts. I'm saying that if you start with the assumption that Mewtwo has managed to get +2 with no or minimal chip than it will look more impressive than it otherwise would be. Yeah does get into these situations, but doing so unscathed to put in the work you're describing on a consistent basis is not something I'd agree with.
I don't see what Mewtwo is doing here that MMY couldn't. MMY probably would have finished off the sweep instead of losing all its health from chip. I'm also not a fan of xu9's team. Arceus-Fairy + mono lose to LO Yveltal is not great. Arceus-Dark is the reason you won this game.
This goes very differently if offonoff didn't greed with that SD early-game and Poltergeist miss doesn't help either. This is a lucky win and I don't think the matchup is much better than MMY had.
I don't know what I was doing in this game tbh. I'm not sure why I tera'd Zacian-C there. Again, MMY would have done nearly the same thing without having to tera.
Mewtwo was not particularly important. I'm pretty sure at this stage Blissey was Tera Dark as I think Bob and I were discussing it beforehand. Not sure if you're running Flare Blitz or EQ on Garmanitan, but if it was the latter that is definitely winning the speed tie.
This is a very bad team you're facing. Most wallbreakers should be able to break it.
So after watching all these replays, yeah base Mewtwo is a C- mon imo, maybe C potentially. C+ is still a stretch and I don't see it going higher. In almost all of these games Mewtwo would or did fail to do much of anything without access to tera. That is a huge drawback that I don't think the benefits make up for. Yeah it hits slightly harder than MMY, but the payoff isn't worth putting all your eggs in one basket. Also the amount of Coil Dragon Tail Zygarde you ended up facing slants things a lot. A Tera Fairy special setup mon is going to stunt on that (i.e. Arceus formes).
Maybe Mewtwo would have been ranked last slate as these replays may have convinced other voters. Mewtwo will be voted on next slate regardless, but I'm not sure why you felt the need to hold onto them and then post them after the slate was released. If you have any noms for UR or even a lot of low ranked mons you're a lot more likely to convince people if they are accompanied by replays.
just to add on a bit to bumbos post, every team you faced where there was some ounce of speed control mewtwo was/would have been useless. The only way mewtwo did anything notable in these matches was either you lucking them or they threw.
first 3 replays all have bad teams with absolutely no forms of control and would have lost to any breaker
4th replay has a fucking necrozma dawn wings, im going to leave it at that
5th game you only won because you crit ekiller, otherwise literally any other pokemon would have done the same.
6th game again literally you could have led arceus fairy with earth power and led to the exact same results, or zacian and led to even better ones.
the game vs bumbo he threw horribly, and would have won that endgame twice over outside of that, but otherwise showcases why this mon is a horrid breaker the moment you load into zacian. if he bladed t28 killed chansey he won, since marsh sneak kills the rest. this shows exactly why mewtwo is a horrid mon, unlike other breakers or stallbreakers, not much power upon entry (needs to np), waste of a tera slot, easily rked and why i happily voted D. Dont take your anger out on bumbo since they actually believed in this mon lol.
replay vs bob. theoretically this looks like a good matchup for mewtwo? fat team with only 1 rkiller. and yet here it does nothing pretty much the entire match while pao clicks buttons freely (actual example of a good breaker), and you only win because you crit sneak on pao lolz.
(missing polt didnt matter since chien pao always ohkoed gira anyways, so even if you hit pao comes and clicks lol.) another example of why this mon sucks and will stay unranked, despite your cherrypicking of horrible replays without any worthwile analysis.
next replay, you fought a lugia and a mewtwo kek. you only won this match because you won a roll living 2 tarrows. care to analyse how their mewtwo also did nothing at all?
you only won because they missed dtail, match would have been night and day if they hit lol.
damn! a mmx and a lugia!! whats next are u gonna show me replays of mewtwo beating caterpie and kakuna
idk why in the world they would ultra there, but either way not really special, mmy would have done the same thing lol, and without wasting a tera!
breezais early game gave me a headache, altho for some reason they did not instantly click sneak and kill your mewtwo, weird! anyways, mmy would have done the exact same thing, next!
damn mewtwo sure did a whole lot of nothing here except losing to the one style it was meant to own.... stall.... looks more like unec and zacian and taunt yveltal (good pokemon) dismantling stall (mediocre/bad playstyle).... shocking
anyways thats a thorough analysis of all your replays from someone who happily voted d on mewtwo, and will continue too unless there is something that changes my mind!
bumbos post also covers the fact that mmy does 90% of what mewtwo did in those replays, even tho i didnt state it i agree wholeheartedly.
I'll just start with saying I don't get why I'm being tagged here when:
1. Of the people who voted I actually engaged with you and agreed it that Mewtwo is viable
2. I voted for it to be ranked and you've tagged me to complain rather than others who voted it D.
I am very aware of this. I loaded the wrong team and part of the reason I stopped running it was due to Refresh over Taunt making the matchup against fat and more specifically stall quite annoying, hence why I only loaded it once throughout the rest of the tournament. Stall is acknowledged for its niche, hence the big 3 of stall all being ranked B-. Something can simultaneously be considered viable and mediocre. Stall has remained around the same level of power throughout the history of the tier in that it is viable, but ultimately is a matchup fish. If I'd brought the team I brought G1 with Specs Lunala and Band Ray that wouldn't really change my opinion of stall. I don't think it is as difficult to have solid stallbreaking tools on most teams outside of some HO archetypes so we can disagree there.
I certaintly can agree that Mewtwo can be a stall killer, but the question is it worthwhile running this compared to everything else available? Personally my answer is no, but maybe there is something there. Hence the C- vote. As you mention, every experienced player is going to have a personal VR and while there are similarities, that bottom layer can differ quite a lot from player to player. For example, I doubt many other people consider Hydrapple viable.
It might be something, it might not be. I'm going to assume that we've both played on the ladder enough to know that context is everything. A huge portion of the ladder can only be summed up as tomfoolery while a lot of high ladder is mostly a couple of people playing on multiple accounts. For example, a single person more or less had enough of an impact that they were able to get Life Orb Zygarde to 10% of all Zygardes. This isn't some uncommon mon one person is running. Furthermore, Focus Sash Marshadow while 25% this month, has historically been around 40% or so despite being an unset.
I don't discount ladder usage, but saying 'something does well on ladder' without replays doesn't mean much. I'm glad you've decided to post some. I have barely touched the ladder this month so I'm not going to pretend to be completely in tune with what is being run there, but I'd be surprised if this is the month that the ladder has pivoted to somewhat resemble the actual metagame given Lugia and Melmetals continued use.
394 is a good, not great speed tier for an offensive mon. Yeah 394 is fast as hell and going to outspeed all the defensive mons, but it isn't blazing for an offensive one. It isn't a Deoxys-A situation where being outsped by Pheromosa sucks, but realistically it is going to be the fastest mon on either team most games outside of priority or scarfers. Even if I don't think Zacian-C is S-, you're still going to be running into it a lot, on top of other stuff like Deoxys-A, Chien-Pao, even MMY. One of the things I don't like about MMY is that it is a fast mon that feels like it requires additional speed control and that applies to Mewtwo as well.
I'd also like to clarify that Mewtwo isn't 'always' getting these boosts. I'm saying that if you start with the assumption that Mewtwo has managed to get +2 with no or minimal chip than it will look more impressive than it otherwise would be. Yeah does get into these situations, but doing so unscathed to put in the work you're describing on a consistent basis is not something I'd agree with.
I don't see what Mewtwo is doing here that MMY couldn't. MMY probably would have finished off the sweep instead of losing all its health from chip. I'm also not a fan of xu9's team. Arceus-Fairy + mono lose to LO Yveltal is not great. Arceus-Dark is the reason you won this game.
Again MMY probably does the same thing. This also looks like a mediocre team that relies on its pilot to cover its flaws.
Again MMY would have done the same thing. This team also looks quite bad.
This goes very differently if offonoff didn't greed with that SD early-game and Poltergeist miss doesn't help either. This is a lucky win and I don't think the matchup is much better than MMY had.
I guess it did its job? After each replay I'm more convinced that this would top out at C.
I don't know what I was doing in this game tbh. I'm not sure why I tera'd Zacian-C there. Again, MMY would have done nearly the same thing without having to tera.
Mewtwo was not particularly important. I'm pretty sure at this stage Blissey was Tera Dark as I think Bob and I were discussing it beforehand. Not sure if you're running Flare Blitz or EQ on Garmanitan, but if it was the latter that is definitely winning the speed tie.
This is a bad team and I doubt it has changed much since I last played against it a while ago.
Mewtwo did its job, though I think a lot of other stuff could have done the same tbh. This team looks very weak to a lot of good stuff.
Again a team thing. Lugia + MMX? One or the other. Almost any Mola team should destroy this given how easy it is to Wish-pass on it.
Mewtwo was fine, though again, noticing some not so great trends here.
This is fine. MMY couldn't do that.
This is a very bad team you're facing. Most wallbreakers should be able to break it.
So after watching all these replays, yeah base Mewtwo is a C- mon imo, maybe C potentially. C+ is still a stretch and I don't see it going higher. In almost all of these games Mewtwo would or did fail to do much of anything without access to tera. That is a huge drawback that I don't think the benefits make up for. Yeah it hits slightly harder than MMY, but the payoff isn't worth putting all your eggs in one basket. Also the amount of Coil Dragon Tail Zygarde you ended up facing slants things a lot. A Tera Fairy special setup mon is going to stunt on that (i.e. Arceus formes).
Maybe Mewtwo would have been ranked last slate as these replays may have convinced other voters. Mewtwo will be voted on next slate regardless, but I'm not sure why you felt the need to hold onto them and then post them after the slate was released. If you have any noms for UR or even a lot of low ranked mons you're a lot more likely to convince people if they are accompanied by replays.
Tagging you mainly because you seem to be relatively receptive and it was you who were requesting my replays. Also, I'm not complaining about anything.
If it's a ladder with fewer than 50k games being played every month, a single person may have a huge impact on high ladder usage stats, and I've witnessed a lot. But about 150K-200K games are played on NDUB ladder every month. In this case, one person's capability to singlehandedly swing the usage stats is small. At least for me, I never saw anyone spamming M2 on the ladder day and night. The current No. 1 ArceusmaliciousJR is always at a high spot on the ladder and he always has M2 in his team, but it was not like that every time I played the ladder, I would meet him.
It seems that you guys are judging the replays by an extreme standard: you're asking M2 to do something 100% irreplaceable in a very single game without any bad decisions by any player or any quote-unquote bad pokemon judged by your own ranking (less for you, more for adem). A pokemon can do this in Game 1, do that in Game 2, and do other things in Game 3,4,5... The point is that it could do all these things in these situations, not that each one has to be strictly unique. For most pokemon below A tier, that's an unreasonable request. It's also arbitrary to disqualify a replay when seeing any pokemon considered bad by you guys. Some council leaders could upgrade Venusaur, a pokemon with literally no ladder usage, to C tier along with many common pokemon because they believe it's decent, but some ranking voters believe that they know the full potential of every pokemon in the meta and no one could make the quote-unquote bad pokemon work, even their usage on the ladder is high or the elo of the team is high. That's arrogance. Honestly, I don't care too much about a ranking made out of arrogance.
Just to clarify, I have no issue against Venusaur. I myself also believe that it has some solid value, and I'll test my Venusaur team later to see its potential.
I'll just start with saying I don't get why I'm being tagged here when:
1. Of the people who voted I actually engaged with you and agreed it that Mewtwo is viable
2. I voted for it to be ranked and you've tagged me to complain rather than others who voted it D.
I am very aware of this. I loaded the wrong team and part of the reason I stopped running it was due to Refresh over Taunt making the matchup against fat and more specifically stall quite annoying, hence why I only loaded it once throughout the rest of the tournament. Stall is acknowledged for its niche, hence the big 3 of stall all being ranked B-. Something can simultaneously be considered viable and mediocre. Stall has remained around the same level of power throughout the history of the tier in that it is viable, but ultimately is a matchup fish. If I'd brought the team I brought G1 with Specs Lunala and Band Ray that wouldn't really change my opinion of stall. I don't think it is as difficult to have solid stallbreaking tools on most teams outside of some HO archetypes so we can disagree there.
I certaintly can agree that Mewtwo can be a stall killer, but the question is it worthwhile running this compared to everything else available? Personally my answer is no, but maybe there is something there. Hence the C- vote. As you mention, every experienced player is going to have a personal VR and while there are similarities, that bottom layer can differ quite a lot from player to player. For example, I doubt many other people consider Hydrapple viable.
It might be something, it might not be. I'm going to assume that we've both played on the ladder enough to know that context is everything. A huge portion of the ladder can only be summed up as tomfoolery while a lot of high ladder is mostly a couple of people playing on multiple accounts. For example, a single person more or less had enough of an impact that they were able to get Life Orb Zygarde to 10% of all Zygardes. This isn't some uncommon mon one person is running. Furthermore, Focus Sash Marshadow while 25% this month, has historically been around 40% or so despite being an unset.
I don't discount ladder usage, but saying 'something does well on ladder' without replays doesn't mean much. I'm glad you've decided to post some. I have barely touched the ladder this month so I'm not going to pretend to be completely in tune with what is being run there, but I'd be surprised if this is the month that the ladder has pivoted to somewhat resemble the actual metagame given Lugia and Melmetals continued use.
394 is a good, not great speed tier for an offensive mon. Yeah 394 is fast as hell and going to outspeed all the defensive mons, but it isn't blazing for an offensive one. It isn't a Deoxys-A situation where being outsped by Pheromosa sucks, but realistically it is going to be the fastest mon on either team most games outside of priority or scarfers. Even if I don't think Zacian-C is S-, you're still going to be running into it a lot, on top of other stuff like Deoxys-A, Chien-Pao, even MMY. One of the things I don't like about MMY is that it is a fast mon that feels like it requires additional speed control and that applies to Mewtwo as well.
I'd also like to clarify that Mewtwo isn't 'always' getting these boosts. I'm saying that if you start with the assumption that Mewtwo has managed to get +2 with no or minimal chip than it will look more impressive than it otherwise would be. Yeah does get into these situations, but doing so unscathed to put in the work you're describing on a consistent basis is not something I'd agree with.
I don't see what Mewtwo is doing here that MMY couldn't. MMY probably would have finished off the sweep instead of losing all its health from chip. I'm also not a fan of xu9's team. Arceus-Fairy + mono lose to LO Yveltal is not great. Arceus-Dark is the reason you won this game.
Again MMY probably does the same thing. This also looks like a mediocre team that relies on its pilot to cover its flaws.
Again MMY would have done the same thing. This team also looks quite bad.
This goes very differently if offonoff didn't greed with that SD early-game and Poltergeist miss doesn't help either. This is a lucky win and I don't think the matchup is much better than MMY had.
I guess it did its job? After each replay I'm more convinced that this would top out at C.
I don't know what I was doing in this game tbh. I'm not sure why I tera'd Zacian-C there. Again, MMY would have done nearly the same thing without having to tera.
Mewtwo was not particularly important. I'm pretty sure at this stage Blissey was Tera Dark as I think Bob and I were discussing it beforehand. Not sure if you're running Flare Blitz or EQ on Garmanitan, but if it was the latter that is definitely winning the speed tie.
This is a bad team and I doubt it has changed much since I last played against it a while ago.
Mewtwo did its job, though I think a lot of other stuff could have done the same tbh. This team looks very weak to a lot of good stuff.
Again a team thing. Lugia + MMX? One or the other. Almost any Mola team should destroy this given how easy it is to Wish-pass on it.
Mewtwo was fine, though again, noticing some not so great trends here.
This is fine. MMY couldn't do that.
This is a very bad team you're facing. Most wallbreakers should be able to break it.
So after watching all these replays, yeah base Mewtwo is a C- mon imo, maybe C potentially. C+ is still a stretch and I don't see it going higher. In almost all of these games Mewtwo would or did fail to do much of anything without access to tera. That is a huge drawback that I don't think the benefits make up for. Yeah it hits slightly harder than MMY, but the payoff isn't worth putting all your eggs in one basket. Also the amount of Coil Dragon Tail Zygarde you ended up facing slants things a lot. A Tera Fairy special setup mon is going to stunt on that (i.e. Arceus formes).
Maybe Mewtwo would have been ranked last slate as these replays may have convinced other voters. Mewtwo will be voted on next slate regardless, but I'm not sure why you felt the need to hold onto them and then post them after the slate was released. If you have any noms for UR or even a lot of low ranked mons you're a lot more likely to convince people if they are accompanied by replays.
By the way, I just noticed that Darmanitan-Galar is also in the D tier, so in most replays I was using two quote-unquote D tier pokemon together. I only practiced it in this single team (I do have earthquake and flare blitz on it), so I'm not that convinced. But I believe that it should also be at least viable. There are actually not many good scarfers in this tier, and this one is worth trying. The current meta is composed mainly by bulky pokemon, so outspeeding your opponent is not the top priority, and that's why most scarfers are not good. Darmanitan-Galar is a rare scarfer who possesses strong power, and it's also flexible because of UT.
I was looking through the replays, and yeah, this about sums it up in the most blunt way I could possibly think of. Not only do most of these replays fail to show very much that could be done by instead, but they also mostly fail to justify the choice of tera blast fairy, an insanely tera-reliant set vs , when mewtwo already has good coverage options for them, in particular.
There's good arguments for running Tera Blast Fairy, which I touch on later, but the fact that most of your replays don't show anything is really harmful to those who don't have the time to watch the rare replay that does anything and find the exact turns of importance.
also, a lot of your replays that involve mewtwo doing things also have it critical hit vs important targets, which completely obfuscates the point by hiding the fact that Tera Blast wasn't actually an OHKO otherwise. You can see this in several of the Zygarde replays, because +0 Tera Blast Fairy is actually a roll on Zygarde.
Tagging you mainly because you seem to be relatively receptive and it was you who were requesting my replays. Also, I'm not complaining about anything.
Respectfully, you don't need to convince the guy who voted C-. You need to convince the people who didn't, because their votes are the reason Mewtwo isn't being ranked.
In that case, you can just stop posting, seems like a good end to me where everyone is happy and Mewtwo doesn't end up blacklisted like a certain crow.
Otherwise, to get a good shot at ranking Mewtwo at this point (without getting it the crow treatment), you need to do the following:
show that it does stuff that can't.
justify exactly why you are using your set (tera blast fairy) over something else like (tera fighting + aura sphere / focus blast), or maybe include that stuff in your argument idk
It may help to point out alternate uses of Mewtwo as well; see bumboclaat's vr reasoning post that included arguments that weren't really even mentioned before on this thread.
Give examples on how it can fit on teams to do its job well. What additional support does it need compared to , and why is giving that support worth it?
Preferably use replays against good teams, as stated by others.
Posting any replay is still way better than nothing because we can see how it plays and imagine how it might be used in a more competitive setting, but they won't stand for themselves like that.
Give turn numbers of important moments, and perhaps a summary. Even a shit replay that has a couple good moments can show that the mon has greater potential than the replay would otherwise imply.
If you want to assure you play against good players, you can always challenge them directly.
If you do this vs council and play well, you might also just directly change minds that way.
I'm not about to go through the replays, but here's some calcs I found sorta interesting in a vacuum and my attempt to show something unique about them.
Code:
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Tera Ghost Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Mewtwo: 210-248 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Code:
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Ghost Marshadow: 289-341 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (75% after Stealth Rock, 100% after 1 layer of Spikes)
Mewtwo's access to Tera can also let it fight Marshadow regardless of set or even tera. Neither Mega Mewtwo can take this move, ever, and even if they could, they can't OHKO Tera Ghost Marshadow at +0 even after hazards chip.
It doesn't have to be Tera Fairy, it can be any tera that isn't weak to Ghost.
Even considering that Life Orb recoil will almost surely kill mewtwo shortly after and the fact that Psystrike has a good chance to whiff without hazard chip on marshadow, having that ability to straight up 1v1 such a Marshadow with extremely minimal support and great tera flexibility is unique.
(I used the choice scarf Yveltal set for these, but obviously it applies to LO too)
Code:
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Fairy Mewtwo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 393-463 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Code:
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 294-348 (74.8 - 88.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Code:
204 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 264-312 (67.1 - 79.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This, this is cool and interesting for the sake of flipping the Yveltal mu without needing rocks up. I included the second calc for the sake of showing that even non-tera mewtwo can also just swat yveltal with the standard ice beam.
While the third calc shows that OHKOes at +2 just like the others, Mega Mewtwo Y also instantly loses to Scarf Yveltal and has absolutely 0 recourse about it. Meanwhile, can Tera into a resist, allowing it to sponge Foul Play easily:
Code:
0- Atk 0 IVs Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Mewtwo: 63-75 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Not only that, but notice the range: Mewtwo also avoids the OHKO from Foul Play from full even without using Tera, allowing it to at least trade with a Choice Scarf Yveltal going for that option if kept healthy (assuming it knows Ice Beam because Tera Blast is useless in that scenario...).
This isn't even considering the critical +2 benchmarks that Life Orb Mewtwo can get, because there's a shocking amount of them, including vs Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, Zygarde, and Giratina.
With NDPL wrapped up and NDFL entering the playoff stage the VR council feels that now is an appropriate time for a new slate! If you have any nominations now is the time to make them. As per usual, please post your nominations in a week.
Speaking personally here, I've got a pretty good idea of what most of my slate is looking like, but here are some things I've discussed with other people if people want to chime in.
Edit: Will edit in some brief reasoning now, but will have a full post after the slate.
[A+ -> S-] Calm Mind is really good and has long past a point where handling it well does ignficantly positively affect a mons viability. It is incredibly splashable on anything but HO. Defensive sets are a bit better due to the rising prominence of Dragon Dance Zygarde which it annoys, but is inconsistent at beating. It is still nice on a couple of offenses as well.
[A+ -> A] A+ baffled me last slate and nothing during NDP/FL has done much to win me over. It looks better than it is because people are bringing offensive teams that crumple to it (and Zacian-C) way more than is reasonable.
[A+ -> A/A-] I had it at B+ before NDP/FL and think that was a bit harsh as DD sets are still pretty decent on offensive teams to the point where it is competing a bit with Arceus on HO. The mon is mid as a whole imo outside of that, but it is something and offense is quite good right now.
[A -> A-] It is just as dangerous as it ever was, but A- better reflects how all or nothing Ultra Necrozma can be imo. People experimenting with SR Unecro is interesting, but I'm not sure if that is enough to keep it A imo.
[A- -> A] The teams it enables are both varied and good enough for it to rise to A imo. Still not a huge fan of Rocky Helmet as a lot of the teams you'd want this set on need it to switch into Choice Band Marshadow and Poltergeist doesn't make contact while the vulnerability to hazards. Even Zac-C, the main reason you'd want phys def Mola, ohkos w +3 Wild Charge 80% of the time after rocks.
[A- -> B+/B] I find every set pretty mid and even the ones that are threatening require way too much support for an A rank mon.
[A- -> B+] Its still good, but at the same time it is nowhere to be seen despite a pretty good matchup into a lot of the offensive stuff we've seen in NDP/FL. I've tried playing with it a lot recently and have been loading into it a lot and it is just kinda there. Its just sorta alright even when building around it. It hates rocks which are not hard to keep up, hates offensive Eternatus, doesn't love Dragon Dance Zygarde, and a lot of other stuff. It isn't bad, but my experience lately has been underwhelming. It sorta sometimes does what it is supposed to and that inconsistency is making me think it is more suitable in B+ until it shows up somewhere and does stuff.
With NDPL wrapped up and NDFL entering the playoff stage the VR council feels that now is an appropriate time for a new slate! If you have any nominations now is the time to make them. As per usual, please post your nominations in a week.
Speaking personally here, I've got a pretty good idea of what most of my slate is looking like, but here are some things I've discussed with other people if people want to chime in.
Edit: Will edit in some brief reasoning now, but will have a full post after the slate going into it.
[A+ -> S-] Calm Mind is really good and has long past a point where handling it well does ignficantly positively affect a mons viability. It is incredibly splashable on anything but HO. Defensive sets are a bit better due to the rising prominence of Dragon Dance Zygarde which it annoys, but is inconsistent at beating. It is still nice on a couple of offenses as well.
[A+ -> A] A+ baffled me last slate and nothing during NDP/FL has done much to win me over. It looks better than it is because people are bringing offensive teams that crumple to it (and Zacian-C) way more than is reasonable.
[A+ -> A/A-] I had it at B+ before NDP/FL and think that was a bit harsh as DD sets are still pretty decent on offensive teams to the point where it is competing a bit with Arceus on HO. The mon is mid as a whole imo outside of that, but it is something and offense is quite good right now.
[A -> A-] It is just as dangerous as it ever was, but A- better reflects how all or nothing Ultra Necrozma can be imo. People experimenting with SR Unecro is interesting, but I'm not sure if that is enough to keep it A imo.
[A- -> A] The teams it enables are both varied and good enough for it to rise to A imo. Still not a huge fan of Rocky Helmet as a lot of the teams you'd want this set on need it to switch into Choice Band Marshadow and Poltergeist doesn't make contact while the vulnerability to hazards. Even Zac-C, the main reason you'd want phys def Mola, ohkos w +3 Wild Charge 80% of the time after rocks.
[A- -> B+/B] I find every set pretty mid and even the ones that are threatening require way too much support for an A rank mon.
[A- -> B+] Its still good, but at the same time it is nowhere to be seen despite a pretty good matchup into a lot of the offensive stuff we've seen in NDP/FL. I've tried playing with it a lot recently and have been loading into it a lot and it is just kinda there. Its just sorta alright even when building around it. It hates rocks which are not hard to keep up, hates offensive Eternatus, doesn't love Dragon Dance Zygarde, and a lot of other stuff. It isn't bad, but my experience lately has been underwhelming. It sorta sometimes does what it is supposed to and that inconsistency is making me think it is more suitable in B+ until it shows up somewhere and does stuff.
Dragapult to C-. I firmly believe that Pult deserves some recognition to be a tour pick vs opponents you have reads on as it has some merits compared to the other premier screen setter in the tier, Grimmsnarl. To me Pult has 3 distinct traits that Grimmsnarl cannot replicate. One of these is access to Ghost type curse, which is a great move on a otherwise potentially passive role which Grimmsnarl having parting shot as well as the spatk lowering spirit break or thunder wave, but I find it is shit down by tier staples such as pdon using it as setup fodder and still threatening major damage as well as Zygarde who shrugs off spirit Brest and is immune to spirit break. Against these common threats is where I find Pult is able to make up the distance with curse, allowing it to self KO to not only stop Pokémon from substituting if choosing to run the useful ability infiltrator, but also make if it able to outspend and faint before any defogger barring scarf defog Yveltal preventing any screen removal from the opponent, and giving the HO teams that feature suicide leads valuable momentum in a way that Grimm cannot replicate with parting shot, being blocked by dark types due to prankster, which gives your opponent a few more counterplay options than you would like, especially since Tera dark is a meta relevant Tera type due to the various Psychic type behemoths present in the tier, as well as the powerful Ghost type threats. The second distinct trait I find useful in Dragapult is its ghost going, as it can stop an E-Killer sweep if preserved, which is normally an annoying Pokémon for offends to deal with without dedicated Tera mons for it, and also letting Pult be immune to Fighting type moves from choice locked Pokémon, and this gives extra opportunities to put up screens later on the game off a good read, and since most psychic and dragon attackers often don’t run choice items due to superior Pokémon specific items such as transformation items or Z moves, Grimmsnarl cannot take advantage of its immunities to abuse choice locked attackers much rarer, despite its immunities being much more common types for Pokémon in the tier. The third big trait I love for Pult is its signature move, Dragon Darts. This move gives off the same vibes for anti leads as the infamous Double Kick Terrakion. Unlike that situation, this is a really a move I see as one of the best selling points for Pult, as I have spent a lot of time in the past trying to optimize the best EV spread for it (which I will elaborate on later) which even led to bringing the optimal ratio between defense and HP back into the primary limelight of the tier , even top talent and legendary builder Pinkacross found it helpful in breaking down how EVs work and how they interact with Pokémon in his educational videos. I’m going on a bit of a tangent here, but long story short thanks to the optimizations in the spread I was able to allocate enough resource to make Dragon Darts a guaranteed OHKO vs one of the strongest webs leads in the tier, Smeargle, assuming it runs the common EV spread of max speed max HP and the rest in various remaining stats depending on what other support moves the Smeargle chooses. This makes it a good option as an anti lead vs a popular Offense team style, and in offends vs offends, the initial momentum of a game can be a massive factor in a matches outcome. On the subject of anti leads, this brings me to my next reason for nomination, Tera type freedom. Most Pokémon who are primarily suicide leads run Tera Ghost to avoid the common form of priority in the tier in E-speed from E-Killer or Rayquaza with on rare occasion Zygarde since ladder hates using good sets. Pult has this type by default which lets it run a verity of types like Poison or Steel for Fairy types that threaten to outspend it and beat it like Zacian-C or scarf Valiant if you are in the 1100 Elo range, it can use Tera fairy to block sucker punch and dragon moves from yveltal and the various dragons the use dragon stab in the tier, but my personal preference is Tera Dark, which lets it lean further into the anti lead role which lets it beat the prankster shenanigans of grim snark which can flip the screens mirror in your favour, as well as blanking the most common attacking move for deo s in the form of psycho boost. It also provides a resistance to scarf Lunala or shadow sneaks from first ima or Marshadow, but I rarely ever need to Tera vs the ghosts, for reasons I’ll explain in a moment. First, I want to finish off the fundamentals of what sets apart Dragapult from other screens suicide leads: the abilities. This is not only a draw for Grimmsnarl, but Pult as well. While Grimmsnarl can occasionally have its ability backfire, Pult has not only abilities that with a good dice roll can make Pokémon completely crippled until switched out giving free setup opportunities for you, it can also run constantly useful abilities to help with otherwise difficult matchups such as sub d-dance Pokémon, as with infiltrator it can hit Pokémon with curse and dragon darts through substitute, which can derail a potential sweep in a single turn, or get a surprise Ko on a Pokémon that has already subbed a few times. It’s other strong ability in clear body is really nice into some brings intimidate users such as Lando-t or pre-Mega Salamence as notable examples. It also ignores sticky webs speed drops, adding more avenues of counterplay to a volatile matchup. It can even come in handy in more textbook games as it negates rock tomb speed drops from pdons rock tomb, or even the more innocuous stat drops that are meta relevant such as the occasional spdef drop from psychic or charm from stall teams. Of course these are the more fringe examples, but the sticky web immunity whilst being free to hold light clay and lets it use its final most valuable trait to set it apart from grimmsnarl, is its blistering speed. Being an exceptionally fast Pokémon, its base speed of 142 lets it out speed the poster children for speed such as Eternatus and Mega Mewtwo Y. However, I feel like the best use of its speed is to beat out a Pokémon that would otherwise win the matchup every time, Eternatus. With an optimized EV spread, it can maintain a speed advantage over the fastest threat that will normally beat it every time that it can potentially out-speed, all while maintaining the OHKO on the max hp and speed Smeargle sets,, but with that investment we still have some EVs left, which is where my spread optimization pays off. With my EV spread not only can Pult maintain the speed tier over Eternatus, and one shot the most popular Smeargle EV spread I have seen at the time of writing despite a focus dash preventing that vs every other lead, but with a perfect Hp to Def ratio Pult is able to survive a shadow sneak from life orb Marshadow, which I remind you is an attack off of a 125 attack stat boosted by 50% by STAB, boosted by 50% again due to technician, further boosted by another 30% by the Life orb, boosted EVEN MORE by being a super effective attack. And yet, the Pult lives, thanks to the optimizations.
The set i landed on after a lot of testing is this:
Dragapult @ Light Clay
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 212 Atk / 136 Def / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Curse
- Dragon Darts
(the calc; 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 136 Def Dragapult: 265-315 (83.5 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
With all this, I fully agree that Dragapult is not nor should be a mainstage presence in our viability rankings, but putting it in d tier with that likes of paladin when it does have notable traits that are unique to it allowing it to fill different roles than the contemporary screen setters warrants a c- tier placement rather then an unviable ranking due to the fact there are niches for it in the tier, and i have personally used it to success in the past, so considering it completely unviable is a bad precedent, so i think c- is fair to show that while this Pokémon can be used, unless you have a very good grasp on your team, an idea of what team your opponent may bring in a tour, and have a good insight on meta trends that could facilitate for the success of a very unique team with some anti meta Pokémon, which is enough for me to consider ranking Pult in the c- tier. Especially when similarly niche Pokémon like Arceus rock reside there. I hope i have made a good case and agree with my interpretation of the goal of the viability rankings enough to support my nomination
(sorry for the wall of text my ADHD is too strong)
Dragapult to C-. I firmly believe that Pult deserves some recognition to be a tour pick vs opponents you have reads on as it has some merits compared to the other premier screen setter in the tier, Grimmsnarl. To me Pult has 3 distinct traits that Grimmsnarl cannot replicate. One of these is access to Ghost type curse, which is a great move on a otherwise potentially passive role which Grimmsnarl having parting shot as well as the spatk lowering spirit break or thunder wave, but I find it is shit down by tier staples such as pdon using it as setup fodder and still threatening major damage as well as Zygarde who shrugs off spirit Brest and is immune to spirit break. Against these common threats is where I find Pult is able to make up the distance with curse, allowing it to self KO to not only stop Pokémon from substituting if choosing to run the useful ability infiltrator, but also make if it able to outspend and faint before any defogger barring scarf defog Yveltal preventing any screen removal from the opponent, and giving the HO teams that feature suicide leads valuable momentum in a way that Grimm cannot replicate with parting shot, being blocked by dark types due to prankster, which gives your opponent a few more counterplay options than you would like, especially since Tera dark is a meta relevant Tera type due to the various Psychic type behemoths present in the tier, as well as the powerful Ghost type threats. The second distinct trait I find useful in Dragapult is its ghost going, as it can stop an E-Killer sweep if preserved, which is normally an annoying Pokémon for offends to deal with without dedicated Tera mons for it, and also letting Pult be immune to Fighting type moves from choice locked Pokémon, and this gives extra opportunities to put up screens later on the game off a good read, and since most psychic and dragon attackers often don’t run choice items due to superior Pokémon specific items such as transformation items or Z moves, Grimmsnarl cannot take advantage of its immunities to abuse choice locked attackers much rarer, despite its immunities being much more common types for Pokémon in the tier. The third big trait I love for Pult is its signature move, Dragon Darts. This move gives off the same vibes for anti leads as the infamous Double Kick Terrakion. Unlike that situation, this is a really a move I see as one of the best selling points for Pult, as I have spent a lot of time in the past trying to optimize the best EV spread for it (which I will elaborate on later) which even led to bringing the optimal ratio between defense and HP back into the primary limelight of the tier , even top talent and legendary builder Pinkacross found it helpful in breaking down how EVs work and how they interact with Pokémon in his educational videos. I’m going on a bit of a tangent here, but long story short thanks to the optimizations in the spread I was able to allocate enough resource to make Dragon Darts a guaranteed OHKO vs one of the strongest webs leads in the tier, Smeargle, assuming it runs the common EV spread of max speed max HP and the rest in various remaining stats depending on what other support moves the Smeargle chooses. This makes it a good option as an anti lead vs a popular Offense team style, and in offends vs offends, the initial momentum of a game can be a massive factor in a matches outcome. On the subject of anti leads, this brings me to my next reason for nomination, Tera type freedom. Most Pokémon who are primarily suicide leads run Tera Ghost to avoid the common form of priority in the tier in E-speed from E-Killer or Rayquaza with on rare occasion Zygarde since ladder hates using good sets. Pult has this type by default which lets it run a verity of types like Poison or Steel for Fairy types that threaten to outspend it and beat it like Zacian-C or scarf Valiant if you are in the 1100 Elo range, it can use Tera fairy to block sucker punch and dragon moves from yveltal and the various dragons the use dragon stab in the tier, but my personal preference is Tera Dark, which lets it lean further into the anti lead role which lets it beat the prankster shenanigans of grim snark which can flip the screens mirror in your favour, as well as blanking the most common attacking move for deo s in the form of psycho boost. It also provides a resistance to scarf Lunala or shadow sneaks from first ima or Marshadow, but I rarely ever need to Tera vs the ghosts, for reasons I’ll explain in a moment. First, I want to finish off the fundamentals of what sets apart Dragapult from other screens suicide leads: the abilities. This is not only a draw for Grimmsnarl, but Pult as well. While Grimmsnarl can occasionally have its ability backfire, Pult has not only abilities that with a good dice roll can make Pokémon completely crippled until switched out giving free setup opportunities for you, it can also run constantly useful abilities to help with otherwise difficult matchups such as sub d-dance Pokémon, as with infiltrator it can hit Pokémon with curse and dragon darts through substitute, which can derail a potential sweep in a single turn, or get a surprise Ko on a Pokémon that has already subbed a few times. It’s other strong ability in clear body is really nice into some brings intimidate users such as Lando-t or pre-Mega Salamence as notable examples. It also ignores sticky webs speed drops, adding more avenues of counterplay to a volatile matchup. It can even come in handy in more textbook games as it negates rock tomb speed drops from pdons rock tomb, or even the more innocuous stat drops that are meta relevant such as the occasional spdef drop from psychic or charm from stall teams. Of course these are the more fringe examples, but the sticky web immunity whilst being free to hold light clay and lets it use its final most valuable trait to set it apart from grimmsnarl, is its blistering speed. Being an exceptionally fast Pokémon, its base speed of 142 lets it out speed the poster children for speed such as Eternatus and Mega Mewtwo Y. However, I feel like the best use of its speed is to beat out a Pokémon that would otherwise win the matchup every time, Eternatus. With an optimized EV spread, it can maintain a speed advantage over the fastest threat that will normally beat it every time that it can potentially out-speed, all while maintaining the OHKO on the max hp and speed Smeargle sets,, but with that investment we still have some EVs left, which is where my spread optimization pays off. With my EV spread not only can Pult maintain the speed tier over Eternatus, and one shot the most popular Smeargle EV spread I have seen at the time of writing despite a focus dash preventing that vs every other lead, but with a perfect Hp to Def ratio Pult is able to survive a shadow sneak from life orb Marshadow, which I remind you is an attack off of a 125 attack stat boosted by 50% by STAB, boosted by 50% again due to technician, further boosted by another 30% by the Life orb, boosted EVEN MORE by being a super effective attack. And yet, the Pult lives, thanks to the optimizations.
The set i landed on after a lot of testing is this:
Dragapult @ Light Clay
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 212 Atk / 136 Def / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Curse
- Dragon Darts
(the calc; 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 136 Def Dragapult: 265-315 (83.5 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
With all this, I fully agree that Dragapult is not nor should be a mainstage presence in our viability rankings, but putting it in d tier with that likes of paladin when it does have notable traits that are unique to it allowing it to fill different roles than the contemporary screen setters warrants a c- tier placement rather then an unviable ranking due to the fact there are niches for it in the tier, and i have personally used it to success in the past, so considering it completely unviable is a bad precedent, so i think c- is fair to show that while this Pokémon can be used, unless you have a very good grasp on your team, an idea of what team your opponent may bring in a tour, and have a good insight on meta trends that could facilitate for the success of a very unique team with some anti meta Pokémon, which is enough for me to consider ranking Pult in the c- tier. Especially when similarly niche Pokémon like Arceus rock reside there. I hope i have made a good case and agree with my interpretation of the goal of the viability rankings enough to support my nomination
(sorry for the wall of text my ADHD is too strong)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2236949721this game pult did a good job by letting pdon become setup fodder for my NDM who unfortunatly got walled by lunala because i suck at piloting that mon but the pressure and chip that pult gave was very helpful in taking a dub
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2236959470 pult did a great job gettint up reflect giving me valuable turns to convert into a win on top of being the main reason i was able to stop primal groudon after a rock polish despite the glimmora MU for my team being quite rough due to being mostly physical attackers as well as having glimmora be the best lead vs pult in NDUbers
It should stay at number one, I don't think either Zygarde or Eternatus are better than it at what it does, what it checks and its set flexability between Defensive, Utility SD, Double Dance, Eruption, Specially Offensive and even the Rock Polish 3A set that's being popularized at the moment. Primal Groudon is essential for almost every team barring Stall and HO, where even if its lacking there, its effects are still heavily put onto the builder where you can't just have one Pokemon present and just ignore it for the rest, especially since Eruption can cleave through Stall if well-positioned and Rock Polish variants can possibly reverse-sweep if given the chance. As for new interesting things I've thought of the past few months, I'm liking Dragon Tail or Roar on Primal Groudon a lot, mostly the former since you can dent Giratina-O and Zygarde pretty nicely while forcing Ho-Oh out and negating Regenerator. Another move is Thunder Wave, mostly used by BananaTimeZ, which cripples switch-ins like Arceus-Dark, Yveltal and Primal Kyogre pretty nicely, while still having a great MU into offense/HO. Hot Take, but I feel like Rock Tomb is better than Overheat right now, since being able to more reliably beat CM Arceus-Fairy, stand a better chance versus CM Arceus-Dark and Primal Kyogre, while still punishing Yveltal and Ho-Oh for switching in, while Overheat can fall flat versus the latter, it's pretty nice while still providing good team utility overall.
S
Eternatus
Dragonium Z and Firium Z are two sets I've been looking at recently, and they're kinda cool I guess. It's mostly Adem pushing these two (primarily the first one) and I haven't had much playing around with them, but I think they can make for a nice sidegrade for Life Orb, providing Eternatus with a bit more longevity while still retaining a nuke for switch-ins like Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM respectively. There's also Agility Meteor Beam which I've seen on ladder, but the meta isn't HO enough for this set to be really strong in my opinion, and the lack of a coverage move for Agility hurts too - I can see the appeal, since it beats Chien Pao and Mega Mewtwo Y now, but it's still not all that. Finally, I think Tera Grass can be nice on defensive sets, since it provides a way of beating Rock Tomb Primal Groudon, retains the ability to handle Primal Kyogre and now 1v1s Zygarde without being scared of Thousand Arrows as much. Aside from all this, I don't have much to say about Eternatus viability-wise, it's fine in S tier.
Zygarde-C
Please do not ban Zygarde, this would be disastrous for the metagame. Dragon Dance Zygarde is strong, sure, but most offensive pressure limits it to only getting a single boost, since it leeches off of fatter teams that can't hit it as hard. It's also quite Tera-reliant, and this applies for all sets, since Dragon Dance often hits like a wet noodle without Tera Ground (since you can only really get 1 boost, especially if you decide to Substitute), and Coil sets are definitely prone to being nuked by Ice-, Fairy- and Dragon-type coverage. Zygarde is very good, don't get me wrong, even Trapper sets that kinda lack things to actually trap most of the time, but it's far from banworthy in my opinion, and I feel like the uptick in Alomomola usage has kinda caused this guy to feel stronger than he actually is. If you want a more in-depth talk though, I did post on the NDUbers Tera Suspect page, so there's that (this goes for Zacian-C as well).
S-
Arceus-Dark
Probably the best Arceus forme right now, it does so much its insane. Regular defensive sets are very good into HO and offense builds as per usual, but more recently, Calm Mind sets are great at becoming a wincon while still retaining the ability to deal with Yveltal and Ultra Necrozma. It's also a great Tera user too, both Tera Poison and Tera Fairy switching the tables against Marshadow and Arceus-Fairy, which it would ordinarily struggle with. Uncommon weaknesses also help it a ton, since Fairy and Fighting coverage is kinda lacking in this tier, while there are only 3 "relevant" mons that can hit it for STAB super-effective, giving it insane longevity throughout a match.
Ho-Oh
Not much to say about Ho-Oh, it's still good at Defogging, and the rise of Dragon Dance Zygarde over Coil has only boosted Offensive and Choice Band variants of Ho-Oh, even if Defensive sets are struggling a bit. Still a great check to Eternatus and CM Arceus formes, very splashable for most teams, has great longevity, it's Ho-Oh.
Marshadow
Is it me or was Marshadow not that popular during NDFL? Regardless, Marshadow is still great, being able to strike down Arceus-Dark, Extreme Killer, Giratina-O and Necrozma formes with ease, while still having amazing breaking potential with the drop in Coil Zygarde use recently - on the subject of Zygarde, I feel like HP Ice on Life Orb sets is criminally underused, notably removing Zygarde after its taken Spectral Thief damage, making Marshadow harder to deal with in the late-game for many fat teams, especially with its general uncommonness. I've also seen people use Marshadium Z, which is alright I guess, being able to nuke support Arceus formes after a Bulk Up, but it doesn't OHKO Zygarde or anything, so I'm a bit sceptical about its viability compared to Tera Ghost Life Orb or even Spell Tag.
Yveltal
Choice Scarf isn't THAT bad, like it definitely is the worse of the three, but its not BAD per say, just more niche. It still destroys opposing HO Teams, especially Sticky Webs, and it has a great MU versus Zacian-C which the other two struggle with a lot; until Life Orb clicks Tera Fire and OHKOes with Heat Wave that is. I've never really been fond of Heat Wave though because dropping Sucker Punch obviously sucks versus Ultra Necrozma, while dropping Taunt or Knock Off means you actually struggle a bit versus Ho-Oh or Chansey. There's also Tera Poison while not having Heat Wave, which is alright I guess but I'd still rather use Tera Flying + a real Zacian-C answer.
A Rank
A+
Arceus
Arceus is good. It does feel a bit underwhelming sometimes, notably versus Primal Groudon, but other than that, it's good. Regular sets are fine, although nowadays Silk Scarf and Life Orb are the two main items, the last one especially being good with Tera Normal Double Edge to nuke Zygarde and Ho-Oh easily. There's also Normalium Z which does a similar thing, but without the recoil, need to Terastalize, and can be used with Refresh to act as a one-time super-heal (removes status conditions, heals to full). It's a good mon, and I'm interested to see what else people can experiment with on it. I've been seeing a bit of Cosmic Power on Ladder, but this set is just too weak NGL. It is annoying in the late-game though.
Arceus-Fairy
Arceus-Fairy is also pretty good, but CM sets are a bit outclassed by Arceus-Dark because you get slowed down by Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot, which sucks. Defensive sets are a bit eh, with all the LO Yveltal running around you kinda wanna outspeed it, but it still does well versus D D Zygarde and Marshadow so it's not all bad. There was a bit of talk around CM Iron Defense, but the tier isn't offensive enough to justify using, just like Agility Eternatus.
Arceus-Ground
People like to bash on it, saying its A- material, but CM sets are still great, notably on more offensive teams compared to Arceus-Dark or -Fairy, since Power Gem is especially useful to nuke Ho-Oh quickly. Dragon Dance sets are still valid, even if the Stone Edge power is a bit lacking sometimes, and while Defensive sets are pretty lackluster, they actually make for a decent lead into most Balance and BO builds, which is pretty nice, while still soft-checking Eternatus and NDM for the team.
Giratina-Origin
Giratina-O is very splashable right now, even without Alomomola. It is such a good Pokemon with Tera Steel, being able to beat Stone Edge Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Necrozma-DM, Ultra Necrozma, CM Arceus-Fairy, in all one-slot, is absolutely insane, especially with its perfect coverage, access to all status conditions and Defog. It's very good glue right now, and if its weaknesses and lack of reliable longevity outside of Alomomola weren't all major, then I would easily push this into S- next to Yveltal; but they are weaknesses unfortunately, and sometimes Giratina-O can be a bit limited in what it wants to do, sometimes struggling into the things it is supposed to check (i.e Physical sucking vs Primal Groudon and Special struggling into Recover Arceus). Mixed Giratina-O seems cool, but I've yet to see a good set that makes full use of the EVs given without compromising something, although the ability to run Poltergeist, Draco Meteor and Dragon Tail all in one slot seems pretty strong.
Zacian-C
Is it just me or is this Pokemon a tiny bit underwhelming? Its defensive qualities seem good until you realise it wants Intrepid Sword a lot, meaning its not a very good idea to switch into Yveltal or Eternatus (ignoring Fire Blast) because you're bound just to get checked by Primal Groudon. Tera Blast Ground sets are obviously Tera-Hogs and are much easier to revenge-kill via Arceus, Chien Pao and Scarf Yveltal too, while the regular Tera Fighting CC sets basically put you at the mercy of anything that's faster than you (i.e Deoxys-A or Choice Scarf mons). Even it's power is a bit lacking IMO. You could argue it's almost always the fastest Pokemon on the field, but when it isn't, it's a bit eh; you could also argue that you can just switch-out of Primal Groudon and sweep later, but this is much easier said than done. It's not bad of course, I like it being a good offensive check to Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Dark, but other than that, it feels a little bit overrated.
A
Necrozma-DM
I have nothing to say about NDM when it comes to what it usually does to be honest. All I can say in that regard is that maybe we should split Defensive NDM into 2 sets (i.e Physically Defensive and Specially Defensive) because its actually not that bulky when its mixed. But in terms of what's NOT on the analyses, I think OTR NDM is criminally underrated right now. Sticky Webs and offense teams in general are on the rise according to NDPL/FL and this nicely anti-leads a lot of stuff, almost 6-0s opposing Trick Room teams, can tank a hefty amount of hits, including +1 Tera Ground DD Zygarde's Thousand Arrows with just 16 Def EVs, making it a decent progress maker even if it isn't gonna sweep, since it enables teammates like Overheat Primal Groudon and Giratina-O to throw off some strong attacks under TR. It's not the best set of course, and it has it's issues versus Ho-Oh due to its limited coverage (Earthquake, Photon Geyser or Stone Edge?) but I wouldn't call it unviable.
Necrozma-Ultra
Physical sets are whatever, they're fine, although NGL Swords Dance kinda sucks, even on Sticky Webs builds, since being slower than Choice Scarf Yveltal will always be a loss. Lead Ultra Necrozma is cool, but is it me or is it not being used as a lead, more like a wallbreaker? Whichever it wants to be, it isn't Calm Mind Ultra Necrozma, which I think has a bit of merit in the tier. It has good surprise factor and can probably make for a decent breaker versus specific team builds, although it's definitely the worst set overall.
Primal Kyogre
Defensive sets are actually pretty solid so this is more directed towards Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre - it struggles with longevity and doesn't have a lot of good switch-in opportunities, even if it is a great breaker and potential wincon for HO teams. I wouldn't call speed a major issue because it is bulky enough to tank most hits, but it's super prone to getting revenge-killed either by Zacian-C or support Arceus formes. It's obviously not bad, it's still good and I still won an NDFL game partially because of it, but NGL A+ is a bit of a stretch.
A-
Deoxys-Attack
It surely clicks Psycho Boost alright. I'm just saying though, you guys need to use Tera Normal Extreme Speed more, that set actually annoys offense a lot while destroying typical counterplay like Chien Pao and Marshadow.
Deoxys-Speed
I don't really know why this guy dropped to begin with. HO in general is around this range, and it does well versus almost every HO lead barring Mega Diancie and Iron Treads, neither of which can handle Dual Screens or stop it from happening. It has a wider movepool than it looks too, with Thunder Wave being pretty useful, especially on Rocky Helmet variants, while I have a small feeling Choice Scarf Trick could be usable as a HO C-Team. It also does well into Smeargle which a lot of people like using nowadays, especially the Rocky Helmet variants, so I don't think it should be the same tier as Smeargle or in B+ where it's clearly gotten better, and represents HO getting better too recently from NDPL and NDFL.
Lunala
She's bulky, strong and decently fast, and destroys most teams relying on Yveltal as their Dark-type with Specs Moongeist Beam. While that and the Meteor Beam sets are good (although the latter is limited to just HO), I have a very good feeling Calm Mind is underexplored or underused right now - proving Lunala with extra bulk to eat attacks from Primal Kyogre and support Arceus formes easier, the same offensive power boost with the ability to do it multiple times and switch moves. It's also amazing with Tera Fairy or Tera Fighting. Another set is simply just Defensive, since Lunala is very bulky and actually a good Defog user, while having slow pivot Teleports paired with Future Sight and good status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. It's like a more offensive Alomomola.
Mega Salamence
To be honest, I'm not quite sure where to rank Mega Salamence. The lack of usage definitely suggests a drop, but there's the argument that viability =/= usage and I feel it applies to some extent with Salamence. It's damage is good, it benefits from DD Zygarde rising, and has a lot of tools it can use like Facade, Refresh, Roost and even Substitute to an extent. If it still isn't used a lot after posting then I might drop it to B+ but NGL this feels like a heavy sleeper pick for a lot of HO and even BO teams, as much of a stretch that may seem.
Rayquaza
Choice Band clicks Dragon Ascent real good. But forget that set, that's boring. Dragon Dance is pretty good right now NGL since although Rayquaza isn't the bulkiest thing in the world, one Dragon Dance is usually enough to dent a team. Tera Fire is super good too to curbstomp Ho-Oh, while Tera Normal Extreme Speed might be underutilised in general. There's also the idea of Swords Dance Scale Shot, specifically on HO Sticky Web teams, with Swords Dance making up for the lack of Life Orb since you need Loaded Dice, although there is the issue of easily being revenge-killed. It's still probably good though.
B Rank
B+
Arceus-Water
I don't know where to really rank Arceus-Water because it's a bit MU dependant compared to Arceus-Dark or Arceus-Ground but when it does get a decent MU (say vs Calyrex-I or Primal Kyogre) it can put in the work. Support sets are actually kinda mid but CM is the way to go for it and it works as well as you'd expect it would. Just like with Eternatus I think you could justify using Tera Grass on it with Grass Knot to beat the Primals better as well as Zygarde or Wild Charge Zacian-C, but Tera Ground Earth Power and Tera Fairy are still valid too.
Alomomola
I don't like it. I know I used it twice but that first loss has kinda traumatised me because of Alomomola's passivity and the idea that its a status absorber (I got punished by Paralysis smh), and I feel like this is the reason why DD Zygarde is all of a sudden so strong right now because this thing lets it in for literally free. Healing others is nice, and so is a slow pivot I guess, but I'd rather not be staring at a +1 Tera Ground DD Zygarde by time I get my Arceus-Fairy in, and I don't think this level of passivity and mediocre bulk is worth A- material at all.
Calyrex-I
Billions must click Glacial Lance. Choice Band sets are alright, but OTR sets are also pretty good especially with Tera Fire or Steel, letting you "quickly" revenge-kill Eternatus or Zacian-C if needed, while still being a strong wallbreaker with Swords Dance versus passive foes like Ferrothorn. It's underrated, just like Calyrex-I in general, but it's not unviable I think. It also has a lot of item flexability, outside of HDB, you could run Lum Berry, or a weakness berry like Occa Berry or Colbur Berry to punish Arceus-Dark. There's also Z-Moves, but I think this thing is way better with Tera, even if Subzero Slammer or Tectonic Rage get some pretty cool calculations. Also, did you know this guy gets Encore? Pretty annoying right?
Chien-Pao
Swords Dance was talked about here and there but this guy has no setup opportunities, only having forced switches from people thinking its Choice Band, which is a fine set I guess. Not much to say about Chien Pao.
Ditto
Tera Fairy should be used more to actually deal with DD Zygarde, who has to rely on Dragon Tail to beat Ditto assuming it has no Substitute. But other than that, it's still a situational Pokemon, not a bad one, just something that isn't A- material like I said last time (I think), especially since it can fall flat versus Fat Balance teams quickly.
Ferrothorn
SpDef is fine, but when are we gonna make Physically Defensive a thing? It does beat NDM, Ultra Necrozma, Arceus-Ground and even Stone Edge Primal Groudon pretty well, and it has Iron Defense to really beat them if needed, while still retaining its utility moves. I don't think Ferrothorn would be that bad as checks to these guys NGL. Also, Gyro Ball should probably be listed for one of its moves since thats what lets it beat Arceus-Fairy more reliably (for SpD sets).
Gothitelle
NGL this Pokemon is so overrated. It's prone to having horrible MUs, its prone to being critted through, its prone to being baited, its hard to get in, its too slow versus a lot of stuff, and both Coil Zygarde and Defensive Ho-Oh have dropped in popularity AFAIK. I don't really see how this is A- material outside of punishing niche defensive walls like Ferrothorn or just being "scary" in builder, and its super low usage and poor winrate is really not helping it at all. Stall isn't popular in this tier anyways so it's not like it has a real niche there either. It's mid.
B
Garganacl
Kinda wish this guy was used more in NDPL and NDFL but hey, its still good and very annoying with Tera + Salt Cure being broken. IDBP is probably its best set because the regular Stealth Rock set can be very passive at times but its still not bad I'd say, especially on certain BO and Fat Balance teams. It's also a good stop to Rayquaza and Ho-Oh from blowing up your team, which is neat too.
Glimmora
I was thinking whether or not it should drop to B- because I didn't recall seeing it too much IN NDFL outside of my own games, but its not THAT bad I'd say so that's why I'm keeping it up here. Mortal Spin is really annoying, Mud Shot or Rock Tomb if your running Dual Hazards is also really annoying, and so is Toxic Spikes from Toxic Debris. Punishes Stall very nicely as well so that's a bonus.
Mega Diancie
Lead sets are fine but I don't really care about those. Mixed sets on BO teams are actually pretty good. It's like a more offensive Arceus-Rock or Garganacl since it also beats Giratina-O, Yveltal and Ho-Oh very easily, while still retaining defensive utility versus Arceus-Dark, Eternatus and those three too. It's great against Stall, with its only issue being that its kinda setup bait for NDM and Zacian-C, but those two have their issues (aka Scarf Yveltal LOL).
Palkia-Origin
People wanna drop it to C+ but they're wrong, this guy is still really good at punishing passive play from Alomomola, Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn which a lot of teams bank on to check SpDef threats, something this thing destroys. It does better versus HO leads compared to Eternatus thanks to Substitute too, while also having more immediate power despite the speed drop. A neutrality to Ice and the ability to turn it into a resistance is also very nice versus Chien Pao and Calyrex-I. I've been thinking other Tera types are usable too, such as Tera Fire to deal with Zacian-C and Arceus-Fairy better, or Tera Fairy to smoke Eternatus 1v1. There's also the idea of Thunder Wave to punish these guys with Substitute, although being walled by Ferrothorn kinda sucks. I'm just saying, Palkia-O isn't that bad and I think he's kinda unexplored right now, especially if Eternatus has this much depth while Palkia-O still has a pretty good movepool and stats.
Smeargle
Oh my god this guy was everywhere in NDPL and NDFL so I have to rise it out of pure usability ngl, but anyways, I see some people suggesting its B+ material but I don't see that NGL, it's still annoyed by Taunt users like Yveltal and Arceus formes, especially Arceus-Ground since it relies so much on Nuzzle, and can be abused a lot by DD Zygarde and other Substitute users, since it has to waste a slot for Perish Song if it wants to do anything versus them. It has a lot of 4MSS too and can be annoying to pilot against setup sweepers Turn 1 (do you set hazards or do you go for Perish Song?). It's obviously not bad but it has its limits and I don't think Sticky Webs HO is the same tier as Arceus-Water or (if you look at current VR) Deoxys-S.
B-
Arceus-Ghost
I think it was used once in NDPL with a team that looked eerily similar to mine but other than that this guy is pretty underused. It still struggles into Yveltal and Arceus-Dark but aside from that it is actually pretty annoying for Extreme Killer structures to deal with reliably. Other than that I don't have anything to say about Arceus-Ghost. Tera Blast Fairy/Fighting is kinda cool but its a huge Tera Hog and I don't like those so I think Z-Moves are better generally.
Basculegion-M
This guy is still annoying as fuck but the surplus use of Arceus and Arceus-Dark kept it from actually being relevant in NDPL and NDFL. Although I was considering bringing it. Agility + Substitute has been seen but you're better off using Choice Scarf since when are you ever gonna setup in reality, and opening yourself up to Yveltal or Arceus-Dark switching in next turn sucks too. Also it likes Tera a bit too much specifically for those two so that holds it back even more for me. I don't think its broken but its definitely annoying for the tier even if its usage is limited.
Chansey Dondozo Giratina
Gonna be talking in the context of Stall but it's just ok. It's not good or anything but its not bad, its kinda fishy and most teams have at least one thing that can help break through. Good predicts are also really hard for Stall to play around especially with things like Yveltal and Marshadow running around denting everything. I do think a new Stall team is long overdue when it comes to exploration because I think we're all too used to the typical sample Stall team even if its good, especially when I think Stall can be better than it currently is. I don't recall Stall winning a game in NDPL and especially not in NDFL so there's that too.
Chi-Yu
The fish was spammed to death alongside Smeargle in NDPL/FL so that kinda suggests its better than C+ in my opinion. I wouldn't say its mandatory on Sticky Webs though so that's why its a tier below Smeargle rather than being next to it. I also think Choice Specs Chi-Yu has potential in the tier but this is much more niche and needs a bit more exploration with its moveset - either Tera Fire Overheat to obliterate Primal Groudon or Tera Dark Dark Pulse for consistent damage similar to Chien Pao. It's pretty interesting and I hope this guy gets more use in the future regarding other sets aside from Nasty Plot Z.
Kyurem-B Mega Mewtwo Y
Having these guys in C+ feels really odd. They aren't that bad, they do at the very least decent damage and are very good at forcing switches and abusing switches with either Tera or just having a good movepool + stats. Not only do they have great Stall MUs, but they're good at cleaning through weakened balance teams and having a small but somewhat useful role against HO, whether that be dealing with Primal Kyogre or picking up revenge-kills on stuff like Eternatus. The rise in Dragon Dance Zygarde should buff these two as well since they both don't really like dealing with Tera Water Coil Zygarde as much.
Zekrom
As for Zekrom, it still heavily punishes switches with its unresisted coverage and Substitute, which annoys the hell out of Primal Groudon + Arceus-Fairy builds, said builds people think shit on Zekrom when in reality they don't reliably deal with it if Zekrom gets a good predicts, directly putting it at an advantage, especially if hazards are up which forces Primal Groudon into Z-Move range after a boost. It's a great wallbreaker on HO teams for this exact reason, and works decently well on Sticky Webs builds with Shuckle or Smeargle since its so good at shutting down opposing Smeargle and Defoggers like Ho-Oh and Giratina-O.
C Rank
C+
Blissey
I just haven't seen it enough to justify B+ not gonna lie. I do like Teleport Blissey balance so if someone could craft one up and send it to me then I MIGHT push it back up but for now its too underused to be B+ IMO.
Kingambit
OK I know I lost the game I brought it in with, but that was because of a burn and I don't wanna hear any other excuses. I don't get why this guy dropped at all last slate. Suggesting it's bad because of "its speed" when it has dogshit speed in every other tier too is a bit questionable, when I think its real issue is it being a bit MU reliant to really get going. Loading Kingambit into a Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, Giratina-O, Lunala, NDM, Ultra Necrozma and sometimes even Marshadow or Extreme Killer team can be great for Kingambit since those are all things it does great against, which is quite a few in all one slot, even if Kingambit is a soft check at best. It puts in the work for these MUs being able to come into all of them pretty easily (barring Marshadow) and either cripple them with Knock Off or just kill them then and there. This is where its issue starts though, since outside of these good MUs, Kingambit has to rely on Supreme Overlord to be a real threat, even then, it struggles a lot into Primal Groudon, Zygarde and even Ho-Oh to some extent, even if Tera Dark helps it out a lot. I don't think Kingambit is D Tier material, and this is basically a mini nomination but it has its niches against specific teams ranging from fat Balance to HO.
Landorus-T
Criminally underused in these recent tournaments. It has great utility with Stealth Rock, Taunt, Defog and U-turn, has an amazing defensive profile versus Stone Edge Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground and Zacian-C, and is just nice glue for offense builds that need a pivot option. People compare it to Alomomola but it has its clear distinctions from it, being much more aggressive and much less passive against threats like DD Zygarde and NDM. Please use it more, he's actually really good. Choice Scarf is also pretty cool but I haven't used it much.
Pheromosa
This thing is so polarizing in my opinion. On one hand, you have a very fast pivot option, with Triple Axel allowing it to beat DD Zygarde and Smeargle leads relatively easily, while retaining the ability to revenge-kill numerous threats like Zacian-C, Deoxys-A, Eternatus and NDM. On the other hand, you have a Pokemon eternally walled by Ho-Oh, forced to rely on the 75% accurate Triple Axel for real coverage power, something that can be complete setup fodder and is extremely susceptible to priority moves, especially from Deoxys-A. I don't see how this inconsistency puts it above C+ I'm ngl.
Shuckle
It's still the more consistent Sticky Web setter that still does well into DD Zygarde with Encore and Final Gambit. I can see the appeal with Smeargle's direct output, but Shuckle isn't bad at all. It's worse, but still a decent sidegrade.
Tapu Lele
Speaking about PsySpam as a whole, it's still very strong, especially with Deoxys-A notably outspeeding +1 DD Zygarde, it can clean through games pretty quickly, while still having quite a bit of deviation, aside from the mandatory hazard lead + Tapu Lele + Ultra Necrozma + Deoxys-A. You have Pokemon like Lunala, Zacian-C, Basculegion, Arceus-Ground and even Marshadow that can work well on it. I say use it more not gonna lie, even if it is a bit gimmicky and hard to use effectively.
C
Arceus-Grass
I've always been a Mega Venusaur fan, but I guess you could justify this thing on offense? IDK, it feels a bit too situational even for C tier standards which is why I dropped it, alongside its zero usage recently. Still unsure what this thing runs, is it Calm Mind or 3A Recover? I can see the vision with DD Zygarde rising, but its still so odd.
Arceus-Rock
This is a niche Arceus forme with actual tournament usage, and pretty good ones at that from NDFL. It makes for a great Extreme Killer check and Chi-Yu check in one, alongside other things such as Yveltal or Mega Salamence, while still having a good offensive presence especially against Ho-Oh builds lacking NDM (like it matters since it runs Will-O-Wisp anyways). It's basically a more aggressive Garganacl, that has more longevity than Mega Diancie. It's in the middle of that spectrum if you will.
Arceus-Flying
I know CM Arceus-Dark or -Fairy are significantly better, but it still has its upsides versus opposing Sticky Webs teams while not being affected by Eternatus's Toxic Spikes, both of which the other two struggle against. All of that while still being able to spam Judgment freely, and being immune to Ground-type attacks from Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground, which gives it some merit at least. I wouldn't D rank it just yet not gonna lie.
Cresselia Hatterene
Oh boy, Trick Room, very fun. I'm being sarcastic, Trick Room feels like its getting worse. Even though Tera Water Coil Zygarde is dropping, all the Trick Room abusers aside from Calyrex-I are just incredibly mediocre and a lot of balance structures just shut them down completely. One of the worst things is that they're not even the fastest things on the field sometimes - Ferrothorn is. Which especially sucks if its Tera Water Ferrothorn. Then you're just finished ATP. It has its niche versus Smeargle but even then there are better counter-teams in my opinion, and the only reason I'm not putting it in C- is because at least the setters are consistent. Very consistent actually. It's the abusers that are the problem.
Galarian Darmanitan
Yes I needed a Spoiler tag that's how much I wanna say, but I might as well address the elephant in the room because if you know me from the NDUbers Server you know how much I love this guy, and its long overdue for a nomination, so even though I have no replays, I'm gonna do it anyways, since IDK when I'm gonna get replays at the rate I'm going at.
Firstly, what does Galarian Darmanitan do? I'll tell you. It's a revenge-killer. Not a wallbreaker, not a sweeper, just a revenge-killer. This is important for later because I see a lot of slander around Galarian Darmanitan and I always have to come back to this to justify why it's fine for that. Galarian Darmanitan is potent at revenge-killing Zacian-C, Eternatus, Arceus-Ground and even Dragon Dance Zygarde, with its Ice/Ground coverage in Icicle Crash and Earthquake, great Speed with Choice Scarf, and ability to punish cheeky switches with U-turn. It's also a decent Tera abuser with Tera Ground, boosting Earthquake to insane damage levels, 2HKOing Defensive Necrozma-DM, having a chance to OHKO Double Dance Primal Groudon, and removing the pesky Stealth Rock weakness:
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 306-362 (94.1 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Zacian-Crowned: 390-462 (120 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 458-542 (108.7 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 362-426 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 542-638 (128.7 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 72 HP / 60 Def Arceus-Ground: 356-422 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 297-351 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 316-373 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 24 HP / 92 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 292-346 (85.6 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 300-354 (74.4 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 344-408 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Groudon-Primal: 384-452 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
One of the biggest complaints I've seen about Galarian Darmanitan is the question, why should I use it over Pheromosa? Well, believe it or not, the bulk Galarian Darmanitan has compared to Pheromosa makes a difference. One of the major things the latter wants to do is revenge-kill Deoxys-A, but Extreme Speed kills it easily. However, Galarian Darmanitan lives Extreme Speed from full, as well as Life Orb Marshadow's Shadow Sneak, and Silk Scarf Arceus's Extreme Speed, none of which Pheromosa lives without Tera Ghost/Normal, meaning Galarian Darmanitan is a more consistent revenge-killer into at least the former:
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar: 201-238 (57.2 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 269-317 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 199-235 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 229-271 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Tera Ghost Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 306-362 (87.1 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 265-313 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 285-335 (81.1 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 378-446 (133.5 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Although Galarian Darmanitan dies after Stealth Rock, so does Pheromosa, so therefore this point is irrelevant since it doesn't make a difference. But without hazards, Galarian Darmanitan is better unless you want to burn Tera. Speaking of hazards, does Galarian Darmanitan actually care that much? I mean, Choice Band Rayquaza, Choice Band Chien Pao (who I'll get to) and Choice Scarf Yveltal all have this issue as well and yet nobody bats an eye, and in a lot of games this is mostly irrelevant. Its especially true for the former since they're both going to be clicking U-turn a lot agaisnt a team with a resist. But anyways, what about Speed? There's surely no difference in Speed right? Well there actually is. One of the major ones is that Galarian Darmanitan outspeeds the standard Arceus-Ground set at +1, letting it revenge-kill it while Pheromosa can't. Another example is with Necrozma-DM, where Galarian Darmanitan outspeeds +2 124 Spe Necrozma-DM while Pheromosa can't, alongside +2 140 Spe Necrozma-DM on Ultra Necrozma sets, before it transforms, allowing it to punish greedy players too. Finally, Galarian Darmanitan speedties with +1 Jolly Kyurem-B and Rayquaza, having the potential to either kill or heavily damage both, while also outspeeding the, albeit niche, Jolly 252 Zekrom. So there are targets that Galarian Darmanitan can outspeed and revenge-kill while Pheromosa can't, further proving its a superior revenge-killer.
But what about Damage? The main one you're all probably thinking. Firstly, when push comes to shove, Galarian Darmanitan kills what it needs to. It't not here to sweep or to wallbreak because then you're better off using Kyurem-B and Chien Pao respectively; it's here to revenge-kill. And it does so arguably better than Pheromosa against specific targets. A good example would be Zacian-C: while Close Combat never kills without Spikes support, Galarian Darmanitan's Earthquake, as shown before, has a roll to kill, which is guaranteed after Stealth Rock. What about Eternatus? While Triple Axel does kill, it's horribly inconsistent and has to land all three hits, while Galarian Darmanitan has a much more consistent Icicle Crash. What about Primal Groudon? While Close Combat never 2HKOs Utility Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Earthquake from Galarian Darmanitan has a high roll to. Examples aside though, when it comes to what they are supposed to do, Galarian Darmanitan's ability to hit most things that are offensive for super-effective damage means it usually out-damages Pheromosa, leading to more OHKOes and 2HKOes, especially consistent ones. The only two exceptions are with Necrozma-DM and Ultra Necrozma. But the thing with these two is that, Close Combat doesn't OHKO the former, meaning it can Dragon Dance again and then revenge-kill you first, and the latter is only specifically for Lead Ultra Necrozma (as U-turn OHKOes), while Galarian Darmanitan can still kill with Icicle Crash, meaning its only slightly less effective since it can't switch, but a fainted Ultra Necrozma is a fainted Ultra Necrozma. For the record, Tera Ground Earthquake from Galarian Darmanitan has a small chance to OHKO Lead Ultra Necrozma after 1 layer of Spikes, so its not exactly consistent. This set is also pretty uncommon, as Dragon Dance Ultra Necrozma falls under the same boat as Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM.
But let's say you DO want the damage. If that's the case, then I suppose Pheromosa is better... neutrally. Remember how I said Galarian Darmanitan hits more for super-effective? This means that using Galarian Darmanitan is prediction-reliant, sure, but very rewarding if you do so. Although Pheromosa does better into Primal Kyogre or Alomomola or Arceus-Water, the monkey has a matchup that Pheromosa falls flat in - Ho-Oh. It's pretty simple, all it has to do is use Rock Slide. You're probably wondering, where is your Flare Blitz? And aside from hitting Necrozma-DM and Calyrex-I a bit harder, its mostly redundant, especially if clicking it into a Rocky Helmet variant of the former, then you're just dead lol. Not having to deal with Ho-Oh makes Galarian Darmanitan much more frustrating to scout for, and it works better for hazard-stacking teams too since it threatens Yveltal and Giratina-O better too. There are quite a lot of calcs comparing the two, which I'll just leave here:
Pokemon in question
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 200-236 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 230-272 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 344-408 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 177-208 (43.9 - 51.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 204-240 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 272-320 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Eternatus: 420-494 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 362-426 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Eternatus: 390-462 (80.7 - 95.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 430-508 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 319-376 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 556-660 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 524-624 (82.3 - 98.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 420-496 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 178-210 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 167-198 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 72 HP / 60 Def Arceus-Ground: 356-422 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 374-444 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 310-366 (96.5 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 246-291 (76.6 - 90.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 422-500 (92.7 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 204 Def Yveltal: 374-444 (95.1 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 396-468 (87 - 102.8%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 392-462 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 204 Def Yveltal: 348-414 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 153-180 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 47.3% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 143-170 (32.2 - 38.3%) -- approx. 3.1% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
As shown by the table, Galarian Darmanitan, despite being prediction reliant, still has enough offensive output to outdamage Pheromosa in multiple instances, as well as have better accuracy due to not relying on Triple Axel, making it consistently stronger against these foes.
There are other Pokemon that hold Galarian Darmanitan back though. Another one could be Chien Pao - but this is an issue of what the Pokemon's role is. Chien Pao is primarily for wallbreaking with Tera Dark Crunch, while Galarian Darmanitan is mostly for revenge-killing and fast positioning. Chien Pao struggles to deal with Zacian-C while Galarian Darmanitan handles it and Deoxys-A very smoothly without having to be locked into Ice Shard for the former (or dealing with being out-prioritied with Extreme Speed vs Sucker Punch). Chien Pao is also more annoyed by support Arceus formes than Galarian Darmanitan is since it doesn't have U-turn to abuse them with.
Another Pokemon that Galarian Darmanitan is compared to is Ditto. While Ditto may also technically revenge-kill Zacian-C and Eternatus, it cannot pivot at all reliably, can't kill specific foes such as Ho-Oh, and is much more prone to being haxxed with Tera than Galarian Darmanitan is. Finally, the last Pokemon Galarian Darmanitan is compared to is Scarf Yveltal, who simply cannot deal with Eternatus while Galarian Darmanitan can.
I don't think Galarian Darmanitan is completely superior to Pheromosa. But I don't agree with the idea it's completely inferior to it. Because it isn't. While Pheromosa has to burn Tera to avoid being sniped by Extreme Speed Deoxys-A (limiting the effectiveness of Tera Fighting ngl), or having to burn Tera to better break through Primal Groudon, Galarian Darmanitan can do both while still keeping the Tera slot for the team. It has good pivoting, a good offensive combination, and is actually more splashable than it may seem, especially with teams that have a decent level of hazard control, or Pokemon that do well against its Water-type checks like DD Zygarde or even Palkia-O.
Galarian Darmanitan is underexplored nowadays and I think it's viable. Thank you for reading this. Anyways...
Dialga
Dialga is mostly deemed to be a worse Specs Eternatus, but access to Trick means it does significantly better into Fat Balance teams or Stall, whereas Eternatus is mostly walled by Chansey, Ho-Oh and even Ferrothorn to an extent. It's resistance to Extreme Speed makes it somewhat useful against HO as well, especially since most EKiller sets don't run Earthquake anymore, as well their Life Orb recoil making them easier to OHKO. Dialga is also compared to Specs Lunala a bit, but it beats Primal Kyogre more reliably and has much less defensive counterplay since Specs Lunala is mostly shut down by Arceus-Dark, forcing it to click Moonblast more often than not. Meanwhile, switch-ins to Dialga are OHKO'd (not 2HKO'd unlike Lunala) by Specs Flash Cannon or Fire Blast, notably Arceus-Fairy and Zacian-C, while still heavily denting Necrozma-DM, or if its defensive, you can just punish it with Trick. Of course its niche but it still has its advantages compared to those two, while still having good bulk, typing and offensive coverage.
Flutter Mane
At first I hated Flutter Mane but recently its growing on me, mostly because I brought it in the Finals of NDFL, and although it was complete setup fodder, it was the one to "kill" Arceus for the team, which was its main purpose. It's a decent wallbreaker with good enough prediction, does pretty well into Stall thanks to Taunt, and is decent at revenge-killing Eternatus or Choice-locked Marshadow. One of the issues I still have with it is, where does it belong on a team? Is it a hyper offense Pokemon or is it a fat balance wallbreaker? I've been thinking about this and its making me think, maybe this little ghost is more splashable than it may seem, especially since it does great versus Zygarde, Giratina-O and non-Sucker Punch Yveltal.
Gholdengo
I mean it did win a game of NDPL so it's gotta be valid right? And to be fair, he is really annoying. Even if he is a huge Tera Hog, he still has some merit to just fuck over Stall and Fat Balance teams that can't reliably revenge-kill him, especially since he can be a wallbreaker himself with Nasty Plot or even Hex sets when combine with TSpikes Eternatus. Although being slower than the Primals definitely hurts against any team thats remotely offensive, where this guy just crumbles really quicky. On a side note though, its typing is really good in PsySpam and NDM if you have Air Balloon, so it might not be completely useless.
Grimmsnarl
I mean its fine. It has its niche as a bulkier screen setter than Deoxys-S. It does better into Chien Pao and Marshadow too which is nice for HO builds with Ultra Necrozma and whatnot. But being hard walled by said Chien Pao or Arceus-Dark without Spirit Break or Play Rough definitely hurts. And Dual Screens being mediocre in general is also a bad look for Grimmsnarl. I wouldn't put it in UR but it's not that good.
Iron Treads
Mostly an anti-HO lead, which is fine, especially since it beats Smeargle more reliably now that people are focusing less on Spore for Nuzzle instead. Most leads run Tera Steel to stop Glimmora and Mortal Spin Smeargle now anyways so this thing can be a pest for most HO leads barring Grimmsnarl or Screens Deoxys-S. But that's all its good for. Which is why its C. And it's irrelevance into Stall hurts it quite a bit too since it can only setup Stealth Rock AND has to deal with Giratina. But the ability to kill itself via Steel Beam and outspeeding Deoxys-S is still niche worthy for teams using Rayquaza or Mega Salamence or even Kyurem-B.
Mega Tyranitar
I think the Mega Tyranitar Stall team is horribly outdated. BUT, I do think Mega Tyranitar has a small niche on bulky offense teams as a Pursuit Trapper, since those are kinda missing outside of maybe Kingambit. It still does amazingly into Yveltal, does well into Arceus-Dark, Ho-Oh and Giratina-O, but it still falls flat for longevity and struggles versus both Primals and Zacian-C. Maybe it could be C- material, but I did some testing with that Mega Tyranitar BO team I had in my teamdump, it's not so bad I guess. I'd still rather use Mega Diancie though.
Mega Venusaur
LEAVE THE FROG ALONE. Seriously though, Mega Venusaur, although I haven't used it much, and even if its a bit of an MU fish for Primal Kyogre or defensive Zygarde, it's defensive traits are still really nice into Refresh CM Arceus formes, defensive Eternatus and even Ho-Oh to an extent. It's pretty resilient against most attacks that come its way and although the rise of DD Zygarde hurts, it can still pressure it a lot with Grass Knot. This alongside the defensive traits that Ferrothorn lacks means its still valid to me, although its definitely a reminder I should use it more.
C-
Cyclizar
A bit similar to Iron Treads in that it curbstomps a lot of HO leads with Shed Tail, making its teammate (usually Lunala) immune to any status or weak attacking moves they throw at her, as she sets up with ease. Against Trick Room (i.e Hatterene), passing a Substitute to Primal Groudon allows it to get a free Swords Dance, while avoiding a flicnh chance from Melmetal or being nuked by Calyrex-I and Primal Kyogre. It also helps DD Zygarde a lot, giving it more bulk and even letting it run a different Tera Type since it's more likely to get to +2 as opposed to +1 Tera Ground. It's niche and probably needs more testing, but its relevance into not only HO but Stall means Cyclizar (and Shed Tail) could be valid in the future as a C-Team (which is kinda what C- is nowadays).
Heatran
I am pretty sure this guy was used in NDPL and lost, but I can still see the vision since this thing with Air Balloon is actually really annoying. Especially for all the Overheat Primal Groudons and Ho-Oh's that just cannot touch it, while it still walls Eternatus, choice-locked Calyrex-I and Arceus-Fairy relatively easily. It's hard to fit, sure, but it could probably work.
Fezandipiti
I'm not that convinced with this thing since it has no replays, nor am I in the position to explain what it does, but since council members like Adem and Bumboclaat are on its side, I suppose its niche-worthy? I'll probably UR it next slate but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now since it was supposed to be used in NDPL apparently.
Melmetal
This guy actually sucks. It's not mandatory on Trick Room, its fodder for common defensive cores with Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Tera Water Zygarde and even Arceus-Water, its a huge Tera Hog which interferes with Calyrex-I, and is completely useless outside of Trick Room. You could argue "Flinch hacks are broken!" but they aren't really, just making Melmetal more inconsistent, more reliant on Trick Room and forcing Pokemon like Cresselia to make up for its shortcomings. It's a noob-killer.
Ribombee
Lastly, we have Ribombee, who is... okay. Imprison + Skill Swap are very nice traits for a HO lead to have to beat opposing Sticky Webs teams and Mega Diancie more easily, but its still just a Webs lead, and its still not consistent unlike Smeargle, nor is it useful outside of Webs unlike Smeargle.
D Rank Reminder: these Pokemon are unviable, but Ubers by tiering.
Arceus-Dragon
It's bad. It doesn't really check anything, its a complete waste of an Arceus forme, it's fodder for Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy or Necrozma-DM or Zacian-C, it's a really mediocre Calm Mind abuser, and overall its just bleh. I wish it was good not gonna lie, but its far too much of an MU fish to do anything of note, especially since any defensive traits it has are just done better by other Pokemon like Giratina-O or Eternatus.
Arceus-Steel
Speaking of MU fishes, this thing is horrible. Not only do most people not know what it does, it's simply outclassed by Zacian-C and NDM at what it wants to do. The only thing they can't do is use Calm Mind, but CM Arceus-Steel has got to be the crappiest idea I have ever heard because no way in hell are you sweeping through anything not named HO, and good luck trying to setup against that. Walled by Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Water, Alomomola, Palkia-O and I could just go on, and even if you could hit all three, where's your longevity? No Recover? No niche. It's bad. I'd rather use NDW than this thing.
Ursaluna-BM
It probably still has a niche, but the other day I asked R8 what its EV Spread does, and even he said he doesn't know. Combine that with a complete lack of usage ever since Trios Tournament, there's barely anything proving why its C- material.
Dragapult
First off, technically UR now, secondly, this is just because Dual Screens are bad. If they were good, it might have a tangible niche as a reliable Smeargle killer, who can give momentum and somewhat wallbreak all in one, while outspeeding stuff like Eternatus easily too. But because dual screens sucks, Dragapult sucks, and anything else it tries to do is just outclassed by Eternatus or Giratina-O.
Mewtwo
Speed-tying with Eternatus is actually really bad, especially for Tera Fairy sets. It's complete greediness over Tera stagnates the teams its on and AFAIK makes them much weaker to Eternatus and Ultra Necrozma, which sucks when Mega Mewtwo Y is still pretty strong, faster and has the coverage already to snipe Arceus-Dark and Yveltal. Defensive qualitites are severely limited because of Life Orb recoil and the need to Tera versus Sucker Punch Yveltal, while it is completely shafted by Toxic Spikes or any hazard for that matter. It's like Tera Blast Ground Zacian-C but if it was bad.
Extra Stuff Pokemon I think could be cool but need more testing, or its just an idea I had that I wanna get out there, etc etc.
Annihilape
Click Final Gambit, something dies. That's it. No Focus Sash rubbish, just Scarf Final Gambit all you need. And if you're against a team where that doesn't work (i.e Stall or a super Fat team), Rage Fist versus weak moves like Alomomola's Flip Turn, or other pivot moves for that matter, Rock Tomb Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, can make it into a somewhat decent end-game wincon. By the way, max HP leads to a Final Gambit strong enough to OHKO offensive Eternatus, so it's real issue comes from support Arceus formes, defensive Yveltal, suicide leads and all the priority users barring Extreme Killer. It's also really hard to build around reasonably. It might be niche worthy, but a good team is needed first.
Darkrai
There's a team on Ladder that uses a suicide lead Deoxys-S with Gravity, just to enable Z-Hypnosis Nasty Plot Darkrai, and although it is gimmicky, I'll admit I've lost to it quite a lot. Darkrai actually has quite a deep movepool, with +2 Thunder dealing a fuckton of damage even aganinst Arceus-Dark, so it is quite annoying to contain for non-HO or Stall teams. But its still a gimmick team not gonna lie.
Gouging Fire
This one is more recent but let me cook. Burning Bulwark is kinda of busted. It basically removes the ability for Extreme Killer Arceus, Marshadow, Zacian-C and other contact users to revenge-kill Gouging Fire without some kind of penalty. But other than that, it is somewhat strong with Booster Energy and Dragon Dance, even if it struggles versus Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon (Tera Dragon Dragon Claw might be worth it? Maybe Breaking Swipe cheese? IDK).
Iron Bundle
Fast Encore + Freeze-Dry to mess with Zygarde and other fat Pokemon - if it naturally outsped +1 DD Zygarde then that would've been awesome too, although I'm not sure if Encore is blocked by Substitute (it isn't right?) but regardless, even if it sucks versus Primal Groudon, it could still be annoying as a fast pivot with Encore and unresisted coverage.
Landorus-I
Gravity could be neat. Earth Power is still incredibly strong, and with Gravity you don't need Rock Slide to deal with Ho-Oh anymore. It also benefits Primal Groudon a lot since not only is Precipice Blades more accurate, it hits Giratina-O too. But its still really slow and mostly outclassed by Chi-Yu on Sticky Web teams, which is sad not gonna lie.
Mega Blastoise
PsySpam cheese, you Shell Smash and click Terrain Pulse and watch as Primal Groudon gets obliterated instantly. Unfortunately it is really dependant on Terrain and is definitely outclassed by Deoxys-A even if it has a better time setting up than the former. Also apparently +2 Hydro Pump from Mega Blastoise is just barely stronger than Primal Kyogre's unboosted Origin Pulse which is... sad. To say the least.
Naganadel
It's basically Eternatus if it could snowball. It isn't walled by Ho-Oh either since +2 Devastating Drake OHKOes it while it gets a +1 Speed boost to potentially kill something else, like Primal Groudon with Draco Meteor. But it has a much harder time setting up and is super dependant on a Z-Crystal which annoys Ultra Necrozma, who would pair decently with it not gonna lie. It's also super frail and therefore quickly killed by priority or anything faster than it if it fails to kill something (or it uses the Z-Move into a Zacian-C switching from a Ho-Oh for example). It could be decent though, doesn't look that bad on paper.
Tapu Bulu
Discord Server has been hyping this guy up recently since it notably beats DD Zygarde either with Bulk Up or just by spamming Horn Leech. It also does well versus Arceus-Ground and somewhat well versus Stone Edge Primal Groudon. But it does nothing outside of this and struggles a lot versus Ho-Oh or Necrozma-DM, unless you run coverage for them, which limits your ability to actually check stuff like Zygarde without Synthesis or Bulk Up.
And that's all I have to say about the current VR and all the Pokemon within it. I don't know how to end off a long-post like this so thanks for reading I guess.
First, Sami's post is amazing. Second, we've had a few delays, but voting is almost done so expect the slate to be released very soon. Third, I was mentioned, specifically with regard to Fez and I thought it'd be better to discuss that here. Adem and I independently thought about it around the same time and Adem's freakout over what they thought was a leak was hilarious on my end.
The general idea is that it compresses a solid Eternatus and Calm Mind Arceus-Dark/Fairy hard check while being a nuisance due to pivoting + Toxic Chain with longevity. The defence enables Fez to survive +2 252+ Precipice Blades after Tera Grass while the SpA enables Moonblast to 4HKO defensive Eternatus after Acid Spray, saving PP. The speed plays a pretty signifcant role as it enables Fez to get a jump on most of the defensive metagame and threaten status with its U-Turn. The Def / SpA EVs could be put into Speed which lets Fez outspeed Double Dance Primal Groudon by one point.
Unfortunately the three teams I made with it got deleted during the mini purge recently so I can't share them, but the general concept was using Fez as a pivot to get in frail breakers such as Marshadow, Deoxys-A, or Chien-Pao while still being able to threaten more passive mons itself. Over the course of longer games you are overwhelmingly likely to get the Toxic Chain procs you need. It pairs especially well with Deoxys-A as this makes having Tera Poison on an Arceus forme not matter. We don't have real defensive steels although it definitely needs to account for Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM. I didn't request Fez be added to the slate as I forgot to save replays when I was testing it before NDPL. It has Cish potential to begin with imo with probably a B- level ceiling.
Discord Server has been hyping this guy up recently since it notably beats DD Zygarde either with Bulk Up or just by spamming Horn Leech. It also does well versus Arceus-Ground and somewhat well versus Stone Edge Primal Groudon. But it does nothing outside of this and struggles a lot versus Ho-Oh or Necrozma-DM, unless you run coverage for them, which limits your ability to actually check stuff like Zygarde without Synthesis or Bulk Up.
SpDef is fine, but when are we gonna make Physically Defensive a thing? It does beat NDM, Ultra Necrozma, Arceus-Ground and even Stone Edge Primal Groudon pretty well, and it has Iron Defense to really beat them if needed, while still retaining its utility moves. I don't think Ferrothorn would be that bad as checks to these guys NGL. Also, Gyro Ball should probably be listed for one of its moves since thats what lets it beat Arceus-Fairy more reliably (for SpD sets).
Eledyr did in the trios final, but having a mon who's raison d'être is handling Primal Kyogre make itself barely able to do that isn't for me. Spikes are great, other things are great, but phys def Ferrothorn is not a great Primal Kyogre check.
I mean it did win a game of NDPL so it's gotta be valid right? And to be fair, he is really annoying. Even if he is a huge Tera Hog, he still has some merit to just fuck over Stall and Fat Balance teams that can't reliably revenge-kill him, especially since he can be a wallbreaker himself with Nasty Plot or even Hex sets when combine with TSpikes Eternatus. Although being slower than the Primals definitely hurts against any team thats remotely offensive, where this guy just crumbles really quicky. On a side note though, its typing is really good in PsySpam and NDM if you have Air Balloon, so it might not be completely useless.
Yeah, this game if anyone is interested. Shows what Gholdengo can do even if the game was probably won without. It has its niche, the question is if it is valuable enough considering how offensively leaning the metagame is currently (especially compared to when it was initially ranked).
Tera Fairy should be used more to actually deal with DD Zygarde, who has to rely on Dragon Tail to beat Ditto assuming it has no Substitute. But other than that, it's still a situational Pokemon, not a bad one, just something that isn't A- material like I said last time (I think), especially since it can fall flat versus Fat Balance teams quickly.
Don't really feel Tera Fairy changes the DD Zygarde matchup under most circumstances. Dragonium-Z is incredibly rare and Ditto's poor HP makes revenging Dragon Dance Zygarde pretty inconsistent even with Tera Fairy. Zygarde does enough to Ditto while not taking enough back that Ditto's ability to revenge it is quite sketchy. The same applies, but to a lesser extent at +2.
+1 216+ Atk Tera Ground Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 222-262 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 216+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Zygarde: 166-196 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 216+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Zygarde-Complete: 166-196 (28.8 - 34%) -- 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
It should stay at number one, I don't think either Zygarde or Eternatus are better than it at what it does, what it checks and its set flexability between Defensive, Utility SD, Double Dance, Eruption, Specially Offensive and even the Rock Polish 3A set that's being popularized at the moment. Primal Groudon is essential for almost every team barring Stall and HO, where even if its lacking there, its effects are still heavily put onto the builder where you can't just have one Pokemon present and just ignore it for the rest, especially since Eruption can cleave through Stall if well-positioned and Rock Polish variants can possibly reverse-sweep if given the chance. As for new interesting things I've thought of the past few months, I'm liking Dragon Tail or Roar on Primal Groudon a lot, mostly the former since you can dent Giratina-O and Zygarde pretty nicely while forcing Ho-Oh out and negating Regenerator. Another move is Thunder Wave, mostly used by BananaTimeZ, which cripples switch-ins like Arceus-Dark, Yveltal and Primal Kyogre pretty nicely, while still having a great MU into offense/HO. Hot Take, but I feel like Rock Tomb is better than Overheat right now, since being able to more reliably beat CM Arceus-Fairy, stand a better chance versus CM Arceus-Dark and Primal Kyogre, while still punishing Yveltal and Ho-Oh for switching in, while Overheat can fall flat versus the latter, it's pretty nice while still providing good team utility overall.
S
Eternatus
Dragonium Z and Firium Z are two sets I've been looking at recently, and they're kinda cool I guess. It's mostly Adem pushing these two (primarily the first one) and I haven't had much playing around with them, but I think they can make for a nice sidegrade for Life Orb, providing Eternatus with a bit more longevity while still retaining a nuke for switch-ins like Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM respectively. There's also Agility Meteor Beam which I've seen on ladder, but the meta isn't HO enough for this set to be really strong in my opinion, and the lack of a coverage move for Agility hurts too - I can see the appeal, since it beats Chien Pao and Mega Mewtwo Y now, but it's still not all that. Finally, I think Tera Grass can be nice on defensive sets, since it provides a way of beating Rock Tomb Primal Groudon, retains the ability to handle Primal Kyogre and now 1v1s Zygarde without being scared of Thousand Arrows as much. Aside from all this, I don't have much to say about Eternatus viability-wise, it's fine in S tier.
Zygarde-C
Please do not ban Zygarde, this would be disastrous for the metagame. Dragon Dance Zygarde is strong, sure, but most offensive pressure limits it to only getting a single boost, since it leeches off of fatter teams that can't hit it as hard. It's also quite Tera-reliant, and this applies for all sets, since Dragon Dance often hits like a wet noodle without Tera Ground (since you can only really get 1 boost, especially if you decide to Substitute), and Coil sets are definitely prone to being nuked by Ice-, Fairy- and Dragon-type coverage. Zygarde is very good, don't get me wrong, even Trapper sets that kinda lack things to actually trap most of the time, but it's far from banworthy in my opinion, and I feel like the uptick in Alomomola usage has kinda caused this guy to feel stronger than he actually is. If you want a more in-depth talk though, I did post on the NDUbers Tera Suspect page, so there's that (this goes for Zacian-C as well).
S-
Arceus-Dark
Probably the best Arceus forme right now, it does so much its insane. Regular defensive sets are very good into HO and offense builds as per usual, but more recently, Calm Mind sets are great at becoming a wincon while still retaining the ability to deal with Yveltal and Ultra Necrozma. It's also a great Tera user too, both Tera Poison and Tera Fairy switching the tables against Marshadow and Arceus-Fairy, which it would ordinarily struggle with. Uncommon weaknesses also help it a ton, since Fairy and Fighting coverage is kinda lacking in this tier, while there are only 3 "relevant" mons that can hit it for STAB super-effective, giving it insane longevity throughout a match.
Ho-Oh
Not much to say about Ho-Oh, it's still good at Defogging, and the rise of Dragon Dance Zygarde over Coil has only boosted Offensive and Choice Band variants of Ho-Oh, even if Defensive sets are struggling a bit. Still a great check to Eternatus and CM Arceus formes, very splashable for most teams, has great longevity, it's Ho-Oh.
Marshadow
Is it me or was Marshadow not that popular during NDFL? Regardless, Marshadow is still great, being able to strike down Arceus-Dark, Extreme Killer, Giratina-O and Necrozma formes with ease, while still having amazing breaking potential with the drop in Coil Zygarde use recently - on the subject of Zygarde, I feel like HP Ice on Life Orb sets is criminally underused, notably removing Zygarde after its taken Spectral Thief damage, making Marshadow harder to deal with in the late-game for many fat teams, especially with its general uncommonness. I've also seen people use Marshadium Z, which is alright I guess, being able to nuke support Arceus formes after a Bulk Up, but it doesn't OHKO Zygarde or anything, so I'm a bit sceptical about its viability compared to Tera Ghost Life Orb or even Spell Tag.
Yveltal
Choice Scarf isn't THAT bad, like it definitely is the worse of the three, but its not BAD per say, just more niche. It still destroys opposing HO Teams, especially Sticky Webs, and it has a great MU versus Zacian-C which the other two struggle with a lot; until Life Orb clicks Tera Fire and OHKOes with Heat Wave that is. I've never really been fond of Heat Wave though because dropping Sucker Punch obviously sucks versus Ultra Necrozma, while dropping Taunt or Knock Off means you actually struggle a bit versus Ho-Oh or Chansey. There's also Tera Poison while not having Heat Wave, which is alright I guess but I'd still rather use Tera Flying + a real Zacian-C answer.
A Rank
A+
Arceus
Arceus is good. It does feel a bit underwhelming sometimes, notably versus Primal Groudon, but other than that, it's good. Regular sets are fine, although nowadays Silk Scarf and Life Orb are the two main items, the last one especially being good with Tera Normal Double Edge to nuke Zygarde and Ho-Oh easily. There's also Normalium Z which does a similar thing, but without the recoil, need to Terastalize, and can be used with Refresh to act as a one-time super-heal (removes status conditions, heals to full). It's a good mon, and I'm interested to see what else people can experiment with on it. I've been seeing a bit of Cosmic Power on Ladder, but this set is just too weak NGL. It is annoying in the late-game though.
Arceus-Fairy
Arceus-Fairy is also pretty good, but CM sets are a bit outclassed by Arceus-Dark because you get slowed down by Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot, which sucks. Defensive sets are a bit eh, with all the LO Yveltal running around you kinda wanna outspeed it, but it still does well versus D D Zygarde and Marshadow so it's not all bad. There was a bit of talk around CM Iron Defense, but the tier isn't offensive enough to justify using, just like Agility Eternatus.
Arceus-Ground
People like to bash on it, saying its A- material, but CM sets are still great, notably on more offensive teams compared to Arceus-Dark or -Fairy, since Power Gem is especially useful to nuke Ho-Oh quickly. Dragon Dance sets are still valid, even if the Stone Edge power is a bit lacking sometimes, and while Defensive sets are pretty lackluster, they actually make for a decent lead into most Balance and BO builds, which is pretty nice, while still soft-checking Eternatus and NDM for the team.
Giratina-Origin
Giratina-O is very splashable right now, even without Alomomola. It is such a good Pokemon with Tera Steel, being able to beat Stone Edge Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground, Necrozma-DM, Ultra Necrozma, CM Arceus-Fairy, in all one-slot, is absolutely insane, especially with its perfect coverage, access to all status conditions and Defog. It's very good glue right now, and if its weaknesses and lack of reliable longevity outside of Alomomola weren't all major, then I would easily push this into S- next to Yveltal; but they are weaknesses unfortunately, and sometimes Giratina-O can be a bit limited in what it wants to do, sometimes struggling into the things it is supposed to check (i.e Physical sucking vs Primal Groudon and Special struggling into Recover Arceus). Mixed Giratina-O seems cool, but I've yet to see a good set that makes full use of the EVs given without compromising something, although the ability to run Poltergeist, Draco Meteor and Dragon Tail all in one slot seems pretty strong.
Zacian-C
Is it just me or is this Pokemon a tiny bit underwhelming? Its defensive qualities seem good until you realise it wants Intrepid Sword a lot, meaning its not a very good idea to switch into Yveltal or Eternatus (ignoring Fire Blast) because you're bound just to get checked by Primal Groudon. Tera Blast Ground sets are obviously Tera-Hogs and are much easier to revenge-kill via Arceus, Chien Pao and Scarf Yveltal too, while the regular Tera Fighting CC sets basically put you at the mercy of anything that's faster than you (i.e Deoxys-A or Choice Scarf mons). Even it's power is a bit lacking IMO. You could argue it's almost always the fastest Pokemon on the field, but when it isn't, it's a bit eh; you could also argue that you can just switch-out of Primal Groudon and sweep later, but this is much easier said than done. It's not bad of course, I like it being a good offensive check to Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Dark, but other than that, it feels a little bit overrated.
A
Necrozma-DM
I have nothing to say about NDM when it comes to what it usually does to be honest. All I can say in that regard is that maybe we should split Defensive NDM into 2 sets (i.e Physically Defensive and Specially Defensive) because its actually not that bulky when its mixed. But in terms of what's NOT on the analyses, I think OTR NDM is criminally underrated right now. Sticky Webs and offense teams in general are on the rise according to NDPL/FL and this nicely anti-leads a lot of stuff, almost 6-0s opposing Trick Room teams, can tank a hefty amount of hits, including +1 Tera Ground DD Zygarde's Thousand Arrows with just 16 Def EVs, making it a decent progress maker even if it isn't gonna sweep, since it enables teammates like Overheat Primal Groudon and Giratina-O to throw off some strong attacks under TR. It's not the best set of course, and it has it's issues versus Ho-Oh due to its limited coverage (Earthquake, Photon Geyser or Stone Edge?) but I wouldn't call it unviable.
Necrozma-Ultra
Physical sets are whatever, they're fine, although NGL Swords Dance kinda sucks, even on Sticky Webs builds, since being slower than Choice Scarf Yveltal will always be a loss. Lead Ultra Necrozma is cool, but is it me or is it not being used as a lead, more like a wallbreaker? Whichever it wants to be, it isn't Calm Mind Ultra Necrozma, which I think has a bit of merit in the tier. It has good surprise factor and can probably make for a decent breaker versus specific team builds, although it's definitely the worst set overall.
Primal Kyogre
Defensive sets are actually pretty solid so this is more directed towards Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre - it struggles with longevity and doesn't have a lot of good switch-in opportunities, even if it is a great breaker and potential wincon for HO teams. I wouldn't call speed a major issue because it is bulky enough to tank most hits, but it's super prone to getting revenge-killed either by Zacian-C or support Arceus formes. It's obviously not bad, it's still good and I still won an NDFL game partially because of it, but NGL A+ is a bit of a stretch.
A-
Deoxys-Attack
It surely clicks Psycho Boost alright. I'm just saying though, you guys need to use Tera Normal Extreme Speed more, that set actually annoys offense a lot while destroying typical counterplay like Chien Pao and Marshadow.
Deoxys-Speed
I don't really know why this guy dropped to begin with. HO in general is around this range, and it does well versus almost every HO lead barring Mega Diancie and Iron Treads, neither of which can handle Dual Screens or stop it from happening. It has a wider movepool than it looks too, with Thunder Wave being pretty useful, especially on Rocky Helmet variants, while I have a small feeling Choice Scarf Trick could be usable as a HO C-Team. It also does well into Smeargle which a lot of people like using nowadays, especially the Rocky Helmet variants, so I don't think it should be the same tier as Smeargle or in B+ where it's clearly gotten better, and represents HO getting better too recently from NDPL and NDFL.
Lunala
She's bulky, strong and decently fast, and destroys most teams relying on Yveltal as their Dark-type with Specs Moongeist Beam. While that and the Meteor Beam sets are good (although the latter is limited to just HO), I have a very good feeling Calm Mind is underexplored or underused right now - proving Lunala with extra bulk to eat attacks from Primal Kyogre and support Arceus formes easier, the same offensive power boost with the ability to do it multiple times and switch moves. It's also amazing with Tera Fairy or Tera Fighting. Another set is simply just Defensive, since Lunala is very bulky and actually a good Defog user, while having slow pivot Teleports paired with Future Sight and good status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. It's like a more offensive Alomomola.
Mega Salamence
To be honest, I'm not quite sure where to rank Mega Salamence. The lack of usage definitely suggests a drop, but there's the argument that viability =/= usage and I feel it applies to some extent with Salamence. It's damage is good, it benefits from DD Zygarde rising, and has a lot of tools it can use like Facade, Refresh, Roost and even Substitute to an extent. If it still isn't used a lot after posting then I might drop it to B+ but NGL this feels like a heavy sleeper pick for a lot of HO and even BO teams, as much of a stretch that may seem.
Rayquaza
Choice Band clicks Dragon Ascent real good. But forget that set, that's boring. Dragon Dance is pretty good right now NGL since although Rayquaza isn't the bulkiest thing in the world, one Dragon Dance is usually enough to dent a team. Tera Fire is super good too to curbstomp Ho-Oh, while Tera Normal Extreme Speed might be underutilised in general. There's also the idea of Swords Dance Scale Shot, specifically on HO Sticky Web teams, with Swords Dance making up for the lack of Life Orb since you need Loaded Dice, although there is the issue of easily being revenge-killed. It's still probably good though.
B Rank
B+
Arceus-Water
I don't know where to really rank Arceus-Water because it's a bit MU dependant compared to Arceus-Dark or Arceus-Ground but when it does get a decent MU (say vs Calyrex-I or Primal Kyogre) it can put in the work. Support sets are actually kinda mid but CM is the way to go for it and it works as well as you'd expect it would. Just like with Eternatus I think you could justify using Tera Grass on it with Grass Knot to beat the Primals better as well as Zygarde or Wild Charge Zacian-C, but Tera Ground Earth Power and Tera Fairy are still valid too.
Alomomola
I don't like it. I know I used it twice but that first loss has kinda traumatised me because of Alomomola's passivity and the idea that its a status absorber (I got punished by Paralysis smh), and I feel like this is the reason why DD Zygarde is all of a sudden so strong right now because this thing lets it in for literally free. Healing others is nice, and so is a slow pivot I guess, but I'd rather not be staring at a +1 Tera Ground DD Zygarde by time I get my Arceus-Fairy in, and I don't think this level of passivity and mediocre bulk is worth A- material at all.
Calyrex-I
Billions must click Glacial Lance. Choice Band sets are alright, but OTR sets are also pretty good especially with Tera Fire or Steel, letting you "quickly" revenge-kill Eternatus or Zacian-C if needed, while still being a strong wallbreaker with Swords Dance versus passive foes like Ferrothorn. It's underrated, just like Calyrex-I in general, but it's not unviable I think. It also has a lot of item flexability, outside of HDB, you could run Lum Berry, or a weakness berry like Occa Berry or Colbur Berry to punish Arceus-Dark. There's also Z-Moves, but I think this thing is way better with Tera, even if Subzero Slammer or Tectonic Rage get some pretty cool calculations. Also, did you know this guy gets Encore? Pretty annoying right?
Chien-Pao
Swords Dance was talked about here and there but this guy has no setup opportunities, only having forced switches from people thinking its Choice Band, which is a fine set I guess. Not much to say about Chien Pao.
Ditto
Tera Fairy should be used more to actually deal with DD Zygarde, who has to rely on Dragon Tail to beat Ditto assuming it has no Substitute. But other than that, it's still a situational Pokemon, not a bad one, just something that isn't A- material like I said last time (I think), especially since it can fall flat versus Fat Balance teams quickly.
Ferrothorn
SpDef is fine, but when are we gonna make Physically Defensive a thing? It does beat NDM, Ultra Necrozma, Arceus-Ground and even Stone Edge Primal Groudon pretty well, and it has Iron Defense to really beat them if needed, while still retaining its utility moves. I don't think Ferrothorn would be that bad as checks to these guys NGL. Also, Gyro Ball should probably be listed for one of its moves since thats what lets it beat Arceus-Fairy more reliably (for SpD sets).
Gothitelle
NGL this Pokemon is so overrated. It's prone to having horrible MUs, its prone to being critted through, its prone to being baited, its hard to get in, its too slow versus a lot of stuff, and both Coil Zygarde and Defensive Ho-Oh have dropped in popularity AFAIK. I don't really see how this is A- material outside of punishing niche defensive walls like Ferrothorn or just being "scary" in builder, and its super low usage and poor winrate is really not helping it at all. Stall isn't popular in this tier anyways so it's not like it has a real niche there either. It's mid.
B
Garganacl
Kinda wish this guy was used more in NDPL and NDFL but hey, its still good and very annoying with Tera + Salt Cure being broken. IDBP is probably its best set because the regular Stealth Rock set can be very passive at times but its still not bad I'd say, especially on certain BO and Fat Balance teams. It's also a good stop to Rayquaza and Ho-Oh from blowing up your team, which is neat too.
Glimmora
I was thinking whether or not it should drop to B- because I didn't recall seeing it too much IN NDFL outside of my own games, but its not THAT bad I'd say so that's why I'm keeping it up here. Mortal Spin is really annoying, Mud Shot or Rock Tomb if your running Dual Hazards is also really annoying, and so is Toxic Spikes from Toxic Debris. Punishes Stall very nicely as well so that's a bonus.
Mega Diancie
Lead sets are fine but I don't really care about those. Mixed sets on BO teams are actually pretty good. It's like a more offensive Arceus-Rock or Garganacl since it also beats Giratina-O, Yveltal and Ho-Oh very easily, while still retaining defensive utility versus Arceus-Dark, Eternatus and those three too. It's great against Stall, with its only issue being that its kinda setup bait for NDM and Zacian-C, but those two have their issues (aka Scarf Yveltal LOL).
Palkia-Origin
People wanna drop it to C+ but they're wrong, this guy is still really good at punishing passive play from Alomomola, Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn which a lot of teams bank on to check SpDef threats, something this thing destroys. It does better versus HO leads compared to Eternatus thanks to Substitute too, while also having more immediate power despite the speed drop. A neutrality to Ice and the ability to turn it into a resistance is also very nice versus Chien Pao and Calyrex-I. I've been thinking other Tera types are usable too, such as Tera Fire to deal with Zacian-C and Arceus-Fairy better, or Tera Fairy to smoke Eternatus 1v1. There's also the idea of Thunder Wave to punish these guys with Substitute, although being walled by Ferrothorn kinda sucks. I'm just saying, Palkia-O isn't that bad and I think he's kinda unexplored right now, especially if Eternatus has this much depth while Palkia-O still has a pretty good movepool and stats.
Smeargle
Oh my god this guy was everywhere in NDPL and NDFL so I have to rise it out of pure usability ngl, but anyways, I see some people suggesting its B+ material but I don't see that NGL, it's still annoyed by Taunt users like Yveltal and Arceus formes, especially Arceus-Ground since it relies so much on Nuzzle, and can be abused a lot by DD Zygarde and other Substitute users, since it has to waste a slot for Perish Song if it wants to do anything versus them. It has a lot of 4MSS too and can be annoying to pilot against setup sweepers Turn 1 (do you set hazards or do you go for Perish Song?). It's obviously not bad but it has its limits and I don't think Sticky Webs HO is the same tier as Arceus-Water or (if you look at current VR) Deoxys-S.
B-
Arceus-Ghost
I think it was used once in NDPL with a team that looked eerily similar to mine but other than that this guy is pretty underused. It still struggles into Yveltal and Arceus-Dark but aside from that it is actually pretty annoying for Extreme Killer structures to deal with reliably. Other than that I don't have anything to say about Arceus-Ghost. Tera Blast Fairy/Fighting is kinda cool but its a huge Tera Hog and I don't like those so I think Z-Moves are better generally.
Basculegion-M
This guy is still annoying as fuck but the surplus use of Arceus and Arceus-Dark kept it from actually being relevant in NDPL and NDFL. Although I was considering bringing it. Agility + Substitute has been seen but you're better off using Choice Scarf since when are you ever gonna setup in reality, and opening yourself up to Yveltal or Arceus-Dark switching in next turn sucks too. Also it likes Tera a bit too much specifically for those two so that holds it back even more for me. I don't think its broken but its definitely annoying for the tier even if its usage is limited.
Chansey Dondozo Giratina
Gonna be talking in the context of Stall but it's just ok. It's not good or anything but its not bad, its kinda fishy and most teams have at least one thing that can help break through. Good predicts are also really hard for Stall to play around especially with things like Yveltal and Marshadow running around denting everything. I do think a new Stall team is long overdue when it comes to exploration because I think we're all too used to the typical sample Stall team even if its good, especially when I think Stall can be better than it currently is. I don't recall Stall winning a game in NDPL and especially not in NDFL so there's that too.
Chi-Yu
The fish was spammed to death alongside Smeargle in NDPL/FL so that kinda suggests its better than C+ in my opinion. I wouldn't say its mandatory on Sticky Webs though so that's why its a tier below Smeargle rather than being next to it. I also think Choice Specs Chi-Yu has potential in the tier but this is much more niche and needs a bit more exploration with its moveset - either Tera Fire Overheat to obliterate Primal Groudon or Tera Dark Dark Pulse for consistent damage similar to Chien Pao. It's pretty interesting and I hope this guy gets more use in the future regarding other sets aside from Nasty Plot Z.
Kyurem-B Mega Mewtwo Y
Having these guys in C+ feels really odd. They aren't that bad, they do at the very least decent damage and are very good at forcing switches and abusing switches with either Tera or just having a good movepool + stats. Not only do they have great Stall MUs, but they're good at cleaning through weakened balance teams and having a small but somewhat useful role against HO, whether that be dealing with Primal Kyogre or picking up revenge-kills on stuff like Eternatus. The rise in Dragon Dance Zygarde should buff these two as well since they both don't really like dealing with Tera Water Coil Zygarde as much.
Zekrom
As for Zekrom, it still heavily punishes switches with its unresisted coverage and Substitute, which annoys the hell out of Primal Groudon + Arceus-Fairy builds, said builds people think shit on Zekrom when in reality they don't reliably deal with it if Zekrom gets a good predicts, directly putting it at an advantage, especially if hazards are up which forces Primal Groudon into Z-Move range after a boost. It's a great wallbreaker on HO teams for this exact reason, and works decently well on Sticky Webs builds with Shuckle or Smeargle since its so good at shutting down opposing Smeargle and Defoggers like Ho-Oh and Giratina-O.
C Rank
C+
Blissey
I just haven't seen it enough to justify B+ not gonna lie. I do like Teleport Blissey balance so if someone could craft one up and send it to me then I MIGHT push it back up but for now its too underused to be B+ IMO.
Kingambit
OK I know I lost the game I brought it in with, but that was because of a burn and I don't wanna hear any other excuses. I don't get why this guy dropped at all last slate. Suggesting it's bad because of "its speed" when it has dogshit speed in every other tier too is a bit questionable, when I think its real issue is it being a bit MU reliant to really get going. Loading Kingambit into a Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, Giratina-O, Lunala, NDM, Ultra Necrozma and sometimes even Marshadow or Extreme Killer team can be great for Kingambit since those are all things it does great against, which is quite a few in all one slot, even if Kingambit is a soft check at best. It puts in the work for these MUs being able to come into all of them pretty easily (barring Marshadow) and either cripple them with Knock Off or just kill them then and there. This is where its issue starts though, since outside of these good MUs, Kingambit has to rely on Supreme Overlord to be a real threat, even then, it struggles a lot into Primal Groudon, Zygarde and even Ho-Oh to some extent, even if Tera Dark helps it out a lot. I don't think Kingambit is D Tier material, and this is basically a mini nomination but it has its niches against specific teams ranging from fat Balance to HO.
Landorus-T
Criminally underused in these recent tournaments. It has great utility with Stealth Rock, Taunt, Defog and U-turn, has an amazing defensive profile versus Stone Edge Primal Groudon, Arceus-Ground and Zacian-C, and is just nice glue for offense builds that need a pivot option. People compare it to Alomomola but it has its clear distinctions from it, being much more aggressive and much less passive against threats like DD Zygarde and NDM. Please use it more, he's actually really good. Choice Scarf is also pretty cool but I haven't used it much.
Pheromosa
This thing is so polarizing in my opinion. On one hand, you have a very fast pivot option, with Triple Axel allowing it to beat DD Zygarde and Smeargle leads relatively easily, while retaining the ability to revenge-kill numerous threats like Zacian-C, Deoxys-A, Eternatus and NDM. On the other hand, you have a Pokemon eternally walled by Ho-Oh, forced to rely on the 75% accurate Triple Axel for real coverage power, something that can be complete setup fodder and is extremely susceptible to priority moves, especially from Deoxys-A. I don't see how this inconsistency puts it above C+ I'm ngl.
Shuckle
It's still the more consistent Sticky Web setter that still does well into DD Zygarde with Encore and Final Gambit. I can see the appeal with Smeargle's direct output, but Shuckle isn't bad at all. It's worse, but still a decent sidegrade.
Tapu Lele
Speaking about PsySpam as a whole, it's still very strong, especially with Deoxys-A notably outspeeding +1 DD Zygarde, it can clean through games pretty quickly, while still having quite a bit of deviation, aside from the mandatory hazard lead + Tapu Lele + Ultra Necrozma + Deoxys-A. You have Pokemon like Lunala, Zacian-C, Basculegion, Arceus-Ground and even Marshadow that can work well on it. I say use it more not gonna lie, even if it is a bit gimmicky and hard to use effectively.
C
Arceus-Grass
I've always been a Mega Venusaur fan, but I guess you could justify this thing on offense? IDK, it feels a bit too situational even for C tier standards which is why I dropped it, alongside its zero usage recently. Still unsure what this thing runs, is it Calm Mind or 3A Recover? I can see the vision with DD Zygarde rising, but its still so odd.
Arceus-Rock
This is a niche Arceus forme with actual tournament usage, and pretty good ones at that from NDFL. It makes for a great Extreme Killer check and Chi-Yu check in one, alongside other things such as Yveltal or Mega Salamence, while still having a good offensive presence especially against Ho-Oh builds lacking NDM (like it matters since it runs Will-O-Wisp anyways). It's basically a more aggressive Garganacl, that has more longevity than Mega Diancie. It's in the middle of that spectrum if you will.
Arceus-Flying
I know CM Arceus-Dark or -Fairy are significantly better, but it still has its upsides versus opposing Sticky Webs teams while not being affected by Eternatus's Toxic Spikes, both of which the other two struggle against. All of that while still being able to spam Judgment freely, and being immune to Ground-type attacks from Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground, which gives it some merit at least. I wouldn't D rank it just yet not gonna lie.
Cresselia Hatterene
Oh boy, Trick Room, very fun. I'm being sarcastic, Trick Room feels like its getting worse. Even though Tera Water Coil Zygarde is dropping, all the Trick Room abusers aside from Calyrex-I are just incredibly mediocre and a lot of balance structures just shut them down completely. One of the worst things is that they're not even the fastest things on the field sometimes - Ferrothorn is. Which especially sucks if its Tera Water Ferrothorn. Then you're just finished ATP. It has its niche versus Smeargle but even then there are better counter-teams in my opinion, and the only reason I'm not putting it in C- is because at least the setters are consistent. Very consistent actually. It's the abusers that are the problem.
Galarian Darmanitan
Yes I needed a Spoiler tag that's how much I wanna say, but I might as well address the elephant in the room because if you know me from the NDUbers Server you know how much I love this guy, and its long overdue for a nomination, so even though I have no replays, I'm gonna do it anyways, since IDK when I'm gonna get replays at the rate I'm going at.
Firstly, what does Galarian Darmanitan do? I'll tell you. It's a revenge-killer. Not a wallbreaker, not a sweeper, just a revenge-killer. This is important for later because I see a lot of slander around Galarian Darmanitan and I always have to come back to this to justify why it's fine for that. Galarian Darmanitan is potent at revenge-killing Zacian-C, Eternatus, Arceus-Ground and even Dragon Dance Zygarde, with its Ice/Ground coverage in Icicle Crash and Earthquake, great Speed with Choice Scarf, and ability to punish cheeky switches with U-turn. It's also a decent Tera abuser with Tera Ground, boosting Earthquake to insane damage levels, 2HKOing Defensive Necrozma-DM, having a chance to OHKO Double Dance Primal Groudon, and removing the pesky Stealth Rock weakness:
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 306-362 (94.1 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ground Zacian-Crowned: 390-462 (120 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 458-542 (108.7 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 362-426 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 542-638 (128.7 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 72 HP / 60 Def Arceus-Ground: 356-422 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 297-351 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 316-373 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 24 HP / 92 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 292-346 (85.6 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 300-354 (74.4 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 344-408 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Groudon-Primal: 384-452 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
One of the biggest complaints I've seen about Galarian Darmanitan is the question, why should I use it over Pheromosa? Well, believe it or not, the bulk Galarian Darmanitan has compared to Pheromosa makes a difference. One of the major things the latter wants to do is revenge-kill Deoxys-A, but Extreme Speed kills it easily. However, Galarian Darmanitan lives Extreme Speed from full, as well as Life Orb Marshadow's Shadow Sneak, and Silk Scarf Arceus's Extreme Speed, none of which Pheromosa lives without Tera Ghost/Normal, meaning Galarian Darmanitan is a more consistent revenge-killer into at least the former:
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar: 201-238 (57.2 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 269-317 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 199-235 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 229-271 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Tera Ghost Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 306-362 (87.1 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 265-313 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 285-335 (81.1 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 378-446 (133.5 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Although Galarian Darmanitan dies after Stealth Rock, so does Pheromosa, so therefore this point is irrelevant since it doesn't make a difference. But without hazards, Galarian Darmanitan is better unless you want to burn Tera. Speaking of hazards, does Galarian Darmanitan actually care that much? I mean, Choice Band Rayquaza, Choice Band Chien Pao (who I'll get to) and Choice Scarf Yveltal all have this issue as well and yet nobody bats an eye, and in a lot of games this is mostly irrelevant. Its especially true for the former since they're both going to be clicking U-turn a lot agaisnt a team with a resist. But anyways, what about Speed? There's surely no difference in Speed right? Well there actually is. One of the major ones is that Galarian Darmanitan outspeeds the standard Arceus-Ground set at +1, letting it revenge-kill it while Pheromosa can't. Another example is with Necrozma-DM, where Galarian Darmanitan outspeeds +2 124 Spe Necrozma-DM while Pheromosa can't, alongside +2 140 Spe Necrozma-DM on Ultra Necrozma sets, before it transforms, allowing it to punish greedy players too. Finally, Galarian Darmanitan speedties with +1 Jolly Kyurem-B and Rayquaza, having the potential to either kill or heavily damage both, while also outspeeding the, albeit niche, Jolly 252 Zekrom. So there are targets that Galarian Darmanitan can outspeed and revenge-kill while Pheromosa can't, further proving its a superior revenge-killer.
But what about Damage? The main one you're all probably thinking. Firstly, when push comes to shove, Galarian Darmanitan kills what it needs to. It't not here to sweep or to wallbreak because then you're better off using Kyurem-B and Chien Pao respectively; it's here to revenge-kill. And it does so arguably better than Pheromosa against specific targets. A good example would be Zacian-C: while Close Combat never kills without Spikes support, Galarian Darmanitan's Earthquake, as shown before, has a roll to kill, which is guaranteed after Stealth Rock. What about Eternatus? While Triple Axel does kill, it's horribly inconsistent and has to land all three hits, while Galarian Darmanitan has a much more consistent Icicle Crash. What about Primal Groudon? While Close Combat never 2HKOs Utility Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Earthquake from Galarian Darmanitan has a high roll to. Examples aside though, when it comes to what they are supposed to do, Galarian Darmanitan's ability to hit most things that are offensive for super-effective damage means it usually out-damages Pheromosa, leading to more OHKOes and 2HKOes, especially consistent ones. The only two exceptions are with Necrozma-DM and Ultra Necrozma. But the thing with these two is that, Close Combat doesn't OHKO the former, meaning it can Dragon Dance again and then revenge-kill you first, and the latter is only specifically for Lead Ultra Necrozma (as U-turn OHKOes), while Galarian Darmanitan can still kill with Icicle Crash, meaning its only slightly less effective since it can't switch, but a fainted Ultra Necrozma is a fainted Ultra Necrozma. For the record, Tera Ground Earthquake from Galarian Darmanitan has a small chance to OHKO Lead Ultra Necrozma after 1 layer of Spikes, so its not exactly consistent. This set is also pretty uncommon, as Dragon Dance Ultra Necrozma falls under the same boat as Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM.
But let's say you DO want the damage. If that's the case, then I suppose Pheromosa is better... neutrally. Remember how I said Galarian Darmanitan hits more for super-effective? This means that using Galarian Darmanitan is prediction-reliant, sure, but very rewarding if you do so. Although Pheromosa does better into Primal Kyogre or Alomomola or Arceus-Water, the monkey has a matchup that Pheromosa falls flat in - Ho-Oh. It's pretty simple, all it has to do is use Rock Slide. You're probably wondering, where is your Flare Blitz? And aside from hitting Necrozma-DM and Calyrex-I a bit harder, its mostly redundant, especially if clicking it into a Rocky Helmet variant of the former, then you're just dead lol. Not having to deal with Ho-Oh makes Galarian Darmanitan much more frustrating to scout for, and it works better for hazard-stacking teams too since it threatens Yveltal and Giratina-O better too. There are quite a lot of calcs comparing the two, which I'll just leave here:
Pokemon in question
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 200-236 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 230-272 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 344-408 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 177-208 (43.9 - 51.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 204-240 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 272-320 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Eternatus: 420-494 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 362-426 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Eternatus: 390-462 (80.7 - 95.6%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 430-508 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Eternatus: 319-376 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 556-660 (87.4 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 524-624 (82.3 - 98.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 420-496 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 178-210 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 167-198 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 72 HP / 60 Def Arceus-Ground: 356-422 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 374-444 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Tera Ground Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 310-366 (96.5 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 246-291 (76.6 - 90.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 422-500 (92.7 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 204 Def Yveltal: 374-444 (95.1 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 396-468 (87 - 102.8%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Yveltal: 392-462 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 204 Def Yveltal: 348-414 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 153-180 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 47.3% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 143-170 (32.2 - 38.3%) -- approx. 3.1% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
As shown by the table, Galarian Darmanitan, despite being prediction reliant, still has enough offensive output to outdamage Pheromosa in multiple instances, as well as have better accuracy due to not relying on Triple Axel, making it consistently stronger against these foes.
There are other Pokemon that hold Galarian Darmanitan back though. Another one could be Chien Pao - but this is an issue of what the Pokemon's role is. Chien Pao is primarily for wallbreaking with Tera Dark Crunch, while Galarian Darmanitan is mostly for revenge-killing and fast positioning. Chien Pao struggles to deal with Zacian-C while Galarian Darmanitan handles it and Deoxys-A very smoothly without having to be locked into Ice Shard for the former (or dealing with being out-prioritied with Extreme Speed vs Sucker Punch). Chien Pao is also more annoyed by support Arceus formes than Galarian Darmanitan is since it doesn't have U-turn to abuse them with.
Another Pokemon that Galarian Darmanitan is compared to is Ditto. While Ditto may also technically revenge-kill Zacian-C and Eternatus, it cannot pivot at all reliably, can't kill specific foes such as Ho-Oh, and is much more prone to being haxxed with Tera than Galarian Darmanitan is. Finally, the last Pokemon Galarian Darmanitan is compared to is Scarf Yveltal, who simply cannot deal with Eternatus while Galarian Darmanitan can.
I don't think Galarian Darmanitan is completely superior to Pheromosa. But I don't agree with the idea it's completely inferior to it. Because it isn't. While Pheromosa has to burn Tera to avoid being sniped by Extreme Speed Deoxys-A (limiting the effectiveness of Tera Fighting ngl), or having to burn Tera to better break through Primal Groudon, Galarian Darmanitan can do both while still keeping the Tera slot for the team. It has good pivoting, a good offensive combination, and is actually more splashable than it may seem, especially with teams that have a decent level of hazard control, or Pokemon that do well against its Water-type checks like DD Zygarde or even Palkia-O.
Galarian Darmanitan is underexplored nowadays and I think it's viable. Thank you for reading this. Anyways...
Dialga
Dialga is mostly deemed to be a worse Specs Eternatus, but access to Trick means it does significantly better into Fat Balance teams or Stall, whereas Eternatus is mostly walled by Chansey, Ho-Oh and even Ferrothorn to an extent. It's resistance to Extreme Speed makes it somewhat useful against HO as well, especially since most EKiller sets don't run Earthquake anymore, as well their Life Orb recoil making them easier to OHKO. Dialga is also compared to Specs Lunala a bit, but it beats Primal Kyogre more reliably and has much less defensive counterplay since Specs Lunala is mostly shut down by Arceus-Dark, forcing it to click Moonblast more often than not. Meanwhile, switch-ins to Dialga are OHKO'd (not 2HKO'd unlike Lunala) by Specs Flash Cannon or Fire Blast, notably Arceus-Fairy and Zacian-C, while still heavily denting Necrozma-DM, or if its defensive, you can just punish it with Trick. Of course its niche but it still has its advantages compared to those two, while still having good bulk, typing and offensive coverage.
Flutter Mane
At first I hated Flutter Mane but recently its growing on me, mostly because I brought it in the Finals of NDFL, and although it was complete setup fodder, it was the one to "kill" Arceus for the team, which was its main purpose. It's a decent wallbreaker with good enough prediction, does pretty well into Stall thanks to Taunt, and is decent at revenge-killing Eternatus or Choice-locked Marshadow. One of the issues I still have with it is, where does it belong on a team? Is it a hyper offense Pokemon or is it a fat balance wallbreaker? I've been thinking about this and its making me think, maybe this little ghost is more splashable than it may seem, especially since it does great versus Zygarde, Giratina-O and non-Sucker Punch Yveltal.
Gholdengo
I mean it did win a game of NDPL so it's gotta be valid right? And to be fair, he is really annoying. Even if he is a huge Tera Hog, he still has some merit to just fuck over Stall and Fat Balance teams that can't reliably revenge-kill him, especially since he can be a wallbreaker himself with Nasty Plot or even Hex sets when combine with TSpikes Eternatus. Although being slower than the Primals definitely hurts against any team thats remotely offensive, where this guy just crumbles really quicky. On a side note though, its typing is really good in PsySpam and NDM if you have Air Balloon, so it might not be completely useless.
Grimmsnarl
I mean its fine. It has its niche as a bulkier screen setter than Deoxys-S. It does better into Chien Pao and Marshadow too which is nice for HO builds with Ultra Necrozma and whatnot. But being hard walled by said Chien Pao or Arceus-Dark without Spirit Break or Play Rough definitely hurts. And Dual Screens being mediocre in general is also a bad look for Grimmsnarl. I wouldn't put it in UR but it's not that good.
Iron Treads
Mostly an anti-HO lead, which is fine, especially since it beats Smeargle more reliably now that people are focusing less on Spore for Nuzzle instead. Most leads run Tera Steel to stop Glimmora and Mortal Spin Smeargle now anyways so this thing can be a pest for most HO leads barring Grimmsnarl or Screens Deoxys-S. But that's all its good for. Which is why its C. And it's irrelevance into Stall hurts it quite a bit too since it can only setup Stealth Rock AND has to deal with Giratina. But the ability to kill itself via Steel Beam and outspeeding Deoxys-S is still niche worthy for teams using Rayquaza or Mega Salamence or even Kyurem-B.
Mega Tyranitar
I think the Mega Tyranitar Stall team is horribly outdated. BUT, I do think Mega Tyranitar has a small niche on bulky offense teams as a Pursuit Trapper, since those are kinda missing outside of maybe Kingambit. It still does amazingly into Yveltal, does well into Arceus-Dark, Ho-Oh and Giratina-O, but it still falls flat for longevity and struggles versus both Primals and Zacian-C. Maybe it could be C- material, but I did some testing with that Mega Tyranitar BO team I had in my teamdump, it's not so bad I guess. I'd still rather use Mega Diancie though.
Mega Venusaur
LEAVE THE FROG ALONE. Seriously though, Mega Venusaur, although I haven't used it much, and even if its a bit of an MU fish for Primal Kyogre or defensive Zygarde, it's defensive traits are still really nice into Refresh CM Arceus formes, defensive Eternatus and even Ho-Oh to an extent. It's pretty resilient against most attacks that come its way and although the rise of DD Zygarde hurts, it can still pressure it a lot with Grass Knot. This alongside the defensive traits that Ferrothorn lacks means its still valid to me, although its definitely a reminder I should use it more.
C-
Cyclizar
A bit similar to Iron Treads in that it curbstomps a lot of HO leads with Shed Tail, making its teammate (usually Lunala) immune to any status or weak attacking moves they throw at her, as she sets up with ease. Against Trick Room (i.e Hatterene), passing a Substitute to Primal Groudon allows it to get a free Swords Dance, while avoiding a flicnh chance from Melmetal or being nuked by Calyrex-I and Primal Kyogre. It also helps DD Zygarde a lot, giving it more bulk and even letting it run a different Tera Type since it's more likely to get to +2 as opposed to +1 Tera Ground. It's niche and probably needs more testing, but its relevance into not only HO but Stall means Cyclizar (and Shed Tail) could be valid in the future as a C-Team (which is kinda what C- is nowadays).
Heatran
I am pretty sure this guy was used in NDPL and lost, but I can still see the vision since this thing with Air Balloon is actually really annoying. Especially for all the Overheat Primal Groudons and Ho-Oh's that just cannot touch it, while it still walls Eternatus, choice-locked Calyrex-I and Arceus-Fairy relatively easily. It's hard to fit, sure, but it could probably work.
Fezandipiti
I'm not that convinced with this thing since it has no replays, nor am I in the position to explain what it does, but since council members like Adem and Bumboclaat are on its side, I suppose its niche-worthy? I'll probably UR it next slate but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now since it was supposed to be used in NDPL apparently.
Melmetal
This guy actually sucks. It's not mandatory on Trick Room, its fodder for common defensive cores with Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Tera Water Zygarde and even Arceus-Water, its a huge Tera Hog which interferes with Calyrex-I, and is completely useless outside of Trick Room. You could argue "Flinch hacks are broken!" but they aren't really, just making Melmetal more inconsistent, more reliant on Trick Room and forcing Pokemon like Cresselia to make up for its shortcomings. It's a noob-killer.
Ribombee
Lastly, we have Ribombee, who is... okay. Imprison + Skill Swap are very nice traits for a HO lead to have to beat opposing Sticky Webs teams and Mega Diancie more easily, but its still just a Webs lead, and its still not consistent unlike Smeargle, nor is it useful outside of Webs unlike Smeargle.
D Rank Reminder: these Pokemon are unviable, but Ubers by tiering.
Arceus-Dragon
It's bad. It doesn't really check anything, its a complete waste of an Arceus forme, it's fodder for Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy or Necrozma-DM or Zacian-C, it's a really mediocre Calm Mind abuser, and overall its just bleh. I wish it was good not gonna lie, but its far too much of an MU fish to do anything of note, especially since any defensive traits it has are just done better by other Pokemon like Giratina-O or Eternatus.
Arceus-Steel
Speaking of MU fishes, this thing is horrible. Not only do most people not know what it does, it's simply outclassed by Zacian-C and NDM at what it wants to do. The only thing they can't do is use Calm Mind, but CM Arceus-Steel has got to be the crappiest idea I have ever heard because no way in hell are you sweeping through anything not named HO, and good luck trying to setup against that. Walled by Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Water, Alomomola, Palkia-O and I could just go on, and even if you could hit all three, where's your longevity? No Recover? No niche. It's bad. I'd rather use NDW than this thing.
Ursaluna-BM
It probably still has a niche, but the other day I asked R8 what its EV Spread does, and even he said he doesn't know. Combine that with a complete lack of usage ever since Trios Tournament, there's barely anything proving why its C- material.
Dragapult
First off, technically UR now, secondly, this is just because Dual Screens are bad. If they were good, it might have a tangible niche as a reliable Smeargle killer, who can give momentum and somewhat wallbreak all in one, while outspeeding stuff like Eternatus easily too. But because dual screens sucks, Dragapult sucks, and anything else it tries to do is just outclassed by Eternatus or Giratina-O.
Mewtwo
Speed-tying with Eternatus is actually really bad, especially for Tera Fairy sets. It's complete greediness over Tera stagnates the teams its on and AFAIK makes them much weaker to Eternatus and Ultra Necrozma, which sucks when Mega Mewtwo Y is still pretty strong, faster and has the coverage already to snipe Arceus-Dark and Yveltal. Defensive qualitites are severely limited because of Life Orb recoil and the need to Tera versus Sucker Punch Yveltal, while it is completely shafted by Toxic Spikes or any hazard for that matter. It's like Tera Blast Ground Zacian-C but if it was bad.
Extra Stuff Pokemon I think could be cool but need more testing, or its just an idea I had that I wanna get out there, etc etc.
Annihilape
Click Final Gambit, something dies. That's it. No Focus Sash rubbish, just Scarf Final Gambit all you need. And if you're against a team where that doesn't work (i.e Stall or a super Fat team), Rage Fist versus weak moves like Alomomola's Flip Turn, or other pivot moves for that matter, Rock Tomb Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, can make it into a somewhat decent end-game wincon. By the way, max HP leads to a Final Gambit strong enough to OHKO offensive Eternatus, so it's real issue comes from support Arceus formes, defensive Yveltal, suicide leads and all the priority users barring Extreme Killer. It's also really hard to build around reasonably. It might be niche worthy, but a good team is needed first.
Darkrai
There's a team on Ladder that uses a suicide lead Deoxys-S with Gravity, just to enable Z-Hypnosis Nasty Plot Darkrai, and although it is gimmicky, I'll admit I've lost to it quite a lot. Darkrai actually has quite a deep movepool, with +2 Thunder dealing a fuckton of damage even aganinst Arceus-Dark, so it is quite annoying to contain for non-HO or Stall teams. But its still a gimmick team not gonna lie.
Gouging Fire
This one is more recent but let me cook. Burning Bulwark is kinda of busted. It basically removes the ability for Extreme Killer Arceus, Marshadow, Zacian-C and other contact users to revenge-kill Gouging Fire without some kind of penalty. But other than that, it is somewhat strong with Booster Energy and Dragon Dance, even if it struggles versus Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon (Tera Dragon Dragon Claw might be worth it? Maybe Breaking Swipe cheese? IDK).
Iron Bundle
Fast Encore + Freeze-Dry to mess with Zygarde and other fat Pokemon - if it naturally outsped +1 DD Zygarde then that would've been awesome too, although I'm not sure if Encore is blocked by Substitute (it isn't right?) but regardless, even if it sucks versus Primal Groudon, it could still be annoying as a fast pivot with Encore and unresisted coverage.
Landorus-I
Gravity could be neat. Earth Power is still incredibly strong, and with Gravity you don't need Rock Slide to deal with Ho-Oh anymore. It also benefits Primal Groudon a lot since not only is Precipice Blades more accurate, it hits Giratina-O too. But its still really slow and mostly outclassed by Chi-Yu on Sticky Web teams, which is sad not gonna lie.
Mega Blastoise
PsySpam cheese, you Shell Smash and click Terrain Pulse and watch as Primal Groudon gets obliterated instantly. Unfortunately it is really dependant on Terrain and is definitely outclassed by Deoxys-A even if it has a better time setting up than the former. Also apparently +2 Hydro Pump from Mega Blastoise is just barely stronger than Primal Kyogre's unboosted Origin Pulse which is... sad. To say the least.
Naganadel
It's basically Eternatus if it could snowball. It isn't walled by Ho-Oh either since +2 Devastating Drake OHKOes it while it gets a +1 Speed boost to potentially kill something else, like Primal Groudon with Draco Meteor. But it has a much harder time setting up and is super dependant on a Z-Crystal which annoys Ultra Necrozma, who would pair decently with it not gonna lie. It's also super frail and therefore quickly killed by priority or anything faster than it if it fails to kill something (or it uses the Z-Move into a Zacian-C switching from a Ho-Oh for example). It could be decent though, doesn't look that bad on paper.
Tapu Bulu
Discord Server has been hyping this guy up recently since it notably beats DD Zygarde either with Bulk Up or just by spamming Horn Leech. It also does well versus Arceus-Ground and somewhat well versus Stone Edge Primal Groudon. But it does nothing outside of this and struggles a lot versus Ho-Oh or Necrozma-DM, unless you run coverage for them, which limits your ability to actually check stuff like Zygarde without Synthesis or Bulk Up.
And that's all I have to say about the current VR and all the Pokemon within it. I don't know how to end off a long-post like this so thanks for reading I guess.
[SET COMMENTS]
* Mega Latios's stats and typing, as well as its access to Levitate, Flip Turn, and Recover, allows it to provide role compression for teams desiring a Primal Groudon and Ultra Necrozma answer that can also serve as a pivot with more direct longevity compared to Giratina-O. However, this is Mega Latios's only niche in the tier. Due to...
I think he's cool. Compresses a pivot and a Primal Groudon check into one, with a good chunk of utility outside of Toxic with Future Sight, Thunder Wave and even the niche Defog for those that really need it. It's a bit inconsistent sure but I've been thinking about it and if Mega Tyranitar can be C then I think this guy can be C- especially when I wouldn't really say Fezandipiti or Heatran outclass it, the latter facing the exact same inconsistencies as Mega Latios does. I think the real issue is that it's simply really underused although Mega Latios + Marshadow looks like a really nice duo to smash through Zygarde and Eternatus quickly. It's notably less weak to Yveltal than Giratina-O is as well since it can always outspeed and pivot out of it, while Giratina-O is stuck. Finally, Future Sight in general is a good tool versus HO leads since you can have your Defogger remove hazards as the lead dies right after from Future Sight, with the Focus Sash being broken by Flip Turn. I doubt it'll get ranked BUT it is cool IMO nonetheless.
Landorus-T C --> B
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
I find this to be the most reliable Zacian check in the tier by far.
+2 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 216 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 280-331 (75 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It tanks Zacians attacks pretty well, and in return, it kills it with Earthquake with enough investments.
40 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 272-324 (83.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
"But cancel, that's not killing Zacian" you might say. However, you are forgetting about the recoil from Rocky Helmet. Factoring that in, it IS enough to kill. It's honestly incredibly useful to have this, and leaves a lot of room to teambuild without having to worry about the dog. It even allows you to not run Groudon. It has a lot of other utility too, but its ability to check Zacian cannot be understated.
Where should it go? Currently I'm of the opinion that it is A+ for reasons I've mentioned in previous posts and that Sami
Where should it go? I'm of the opinion that Zacian-C is also A+, but not locked in where in A+ it should be. Do y'all think it should drop or stay S-?
How much should it rise? Currently I have Giratina-O rounding out the bottom of A+. I think it deserves to rise, but how much?
I have it in A+ at the moment, but would be interested to hear where others think it should go.
A+ ->S-
A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B- -> B+
C+->B
C+ -> B-
C- -> C+
C -> C+
C- -> C
C- -> C
C- -> C
UR -> C-
UR -> C-
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B+ -> B-
B+ -> B-
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- ->C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> D
C- -> D
Deoxys-A, and 
Ultra Necrozma and 
Eternatus, as well as the trend of Psychic-, Ground- and Dragon-types in the tier, and you get a Pokemon that can pressure basically all team structures when granted the right momentum, so it really appreciates local fish 
Chansey, with its obscene special bulk letting it safely bring stuff when facing some of the strongest wallbreakers in the tier such as 
Ho-Oh, 
Choice Specs wallbreaker with Trick barely justificable.
Zygarde, 
Mewtwo has more of a niche than it, lol.
Mega Latios: Rather inconsistent and demands redundant checks for what it's meant to cover in the first place, thus overall being outclassed by 
Melmetal that suffers from PP issues, 
Calyrex-I does as well out of relying on spamming Glacial Lance, and while you can afford to use other TR setters over it, it still gives it a niche over the other TR setters, which is why I merely said "basically mandatory" over "fully mandatory", as you can use other stuff if you know what you're doing.
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(grass)
(flying)|
(steel)
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[A+ -> S-] Calm Mind is really good and has long past a point where handling it well does ignficantly positively affect a mons viability. It is incredibly splashable on anything but HO. Defensive sets are a bit better due to the rising prominence of Dragon Dance Zygarde which it annoys, but is inconsistent at beating. It is still nice on a couple of offenses as well.
[A+ -> A] A+ baffled me last slate and nothing during NDP/FL has done much to win me over. It looks better than it is because people are bringing offensive teams that crumple to it (and Zacian-C) way more than is reasonable.
[A -> A-] It is just as dangerous as it ever was, but A- better reflects how all or nothing Ultra Necrozma can be imo. People experimenting with SR Unecro is interesting, but I'm not sure if that is enough to keep it A imo.
[A- -> A] The teams it enables are both varied and good enough for it to rise to A imo. Still not a huge fan of Rocky Helmet as a lot of the teams you'd want this set on need it to switch into Choice Band Marshadow and Poltergeist doesn't make contact while the vulnerability to hazards. Even Zac-C, the main reason you'd want phys def Mola, ohkos w +3 Wild Charge 80% of the time after rocks.
[A- -> B+/B] I find every set pretty mid and even the ones that are threatening require way too much support for an A rank mon.
[A- -> B+] Its still good, but at the same time it is nowhere to be seen despite a pretty good matchup into a lot of the offensive stuff we've seen in NDP/FL. I've tried playing with it a lot recently and have been loading into it a lot and it is just kinda there. Its just sorta alright even when building around it. It hates rocks which are not hard to keep up, hates offensive Eternatus, doesn't love Dragon Dance Zygarde, and a lot of other stuff. It isn't bad, but my experience lately has been underwhelming. It sorta sometimes does what it is supposed to and that inconsistency is making me think it is more suitable in B+ until it shows up somewhere and does stuff.
Dragapult to C-. I firmly believe that Pult deserves some recognition to be a tour pick vs opponents you have reads on as it has some merits compared to the other premier screen setter in the tier, Grimmsnarl. To me Pult has 3 distinct traits that Grimmsnarl cannot replicate. One of these is access to Ghost type curse, which is a great move on a otherwise potentially passive role which Grimmsnarl having parting shot as well as the spatk lowering spirit break or thunder wave, but I find it is shit down by tier staples such as pdon using it as setup fodder and still threatening major damage as well as Zygarde who shrugs off spirit Brest and is immune to spirit break. Against these common threats is where I find Pult is able to make up the distance with curse, allowing it to self KO to not only stop Pokémon from substituting if choosing to run the useful ability infiltrator, but also make if it able to outspend and faint before any defogger barring scarf defog Yveltal preventing any screen removal from the opponent, and giving the HO teams that feature suicide leads valuable momentum in a way that Grimm cannot replicate with parting shot, being blocked by dark types due to prankster, which gives your opponent a few more counterplay options than you would like, especially since Tera dark is a meta relevant Tera type due to the various Psychic type behemoths present in the tier, as well as the powerful Ghost type threats. The second distinct trait I find useful in Dragapult is its ghost going, as it can stop an E-Killer sweep if preserved, which is normally an annoying Pokémon for offends to deal with without dedicated Tera mons for it, and also letting Pult be immune to Fighting type moves from choice locked Pokémon, and this gives extra opportunities to put up screens later on the game off a good read, and since most psychic and dragon attackers often don’t run choice items due to superior Pokémon specific items such as transformation items or Z moves, Grimmsnarl cannot take advantage of its immunities to abuse choice locked attackers much rarer, despite its immunities being much more common types for Pokémon in the tier. The third big trait I love for Pult is its signature move, Dragon Darts. This move gives off the same vibes for anti leads as the infamous Double Kick Terrakion. Unlike that situation, this is a really a move I see as one of the best selling points for Pult, as I have spent a lot of time in the past trying to optimize the best EV spread for it (which I will elaborate on later) which even led to bringing the optimal ratio between defense and HP back into the primary limelight of the tier , even top talent and legendary builder Pinkacross found it helpful in breaking down how EVs work and how they interact with Pokémon in his educational videos. I’m going on a bit of a tangent here, but long story short thanks to the optimizations in the spread I was able to allocate enough resource to make Dragon Darts a guaranteed OHKO vs one of the strongest webs leads in the tier, Smeargle, assuming it runs the common EV spread of max speed max HP and the rest in various remaining stats depending on what other support moves the Smeargle chooses. This makes it a good option as an anti lead vs a popular Offense team style, and in offends vs offends, the initial momentum of a game can be a massive factor in a matches outcome. On the subject of anti leads, this brings me to my next reason for nomination, Tera type freedom. Most Pokémon who are primarily suicide leads run Tera Ghost to avoid the common form of priority in the tier in E-speed from E-Killer or Rayquaza with on rare occasion Zygarde since ladder hates using good sets. Pult has this type by default which lets it run a verity of types like Poison or Steel for Fairy types that threaten to outspend it and beat it like Zacian-C or scarf Valiant if you are in the 1100 Elo range, it can use Tera fairy to block sucker punch and dragon moves from yveltal and the various dragons the use dragon stab in the tier, but my personal preference is Tera Dark, which lets it lean further into the anti lead role which lets it beat the prankster shenanigans of grim snark which can flip the screens mirror in your favour, as well as blanking the most common attacking move for deo s in the form of psycho boost. It also provides a resistance to scarf Lunala or shadow sneaks from first ima or Marshadow, but I rarely ever need to Tera vs the ghosts, for reasons I’ll explain in a moment. First, I want to finish off the fundamentals of what sets apart Dragapult from other screens suicide leads: the abilities. This is not only a draw for Grimmsnarl, but Pult as well. While Grimmsnarl can occasionally have its ability backfire, Pult has not only abilities that with a good dice roll can make Pokémon completely crippled until switched out giving free setup opportunities for you, it can also run constantly useful abilities to help with otherwise difficult matchups such as sub d-dance Pokémon, as with infiltrator it can hit Pokémon with curse and dragon darts through substitute, which can derail a potential sweep in a single turn, or get a surprise Ko on a Pokémon that has already subbed a few times. It’s other strong ability in clear body is really nice into some brings intimidate users such as Lando-t or pre-Mega Salamence as notable examples. It also ignores sticky webs speed drops, adding more avenues of counterplay to a volatile matchup. It can even come in handy in more textbook games as it negates rock tomb speed drops from pdons rock tomb, or even the more innocuous stat drops that are meta relevant such as the occasional spdef drop from psychic or charm from stall teams. Of course these are the more fringe examples, but the sticky web immunity whilst being free to hold light clay and lets it use its final most valuable trait to set it apart from grimmsnarl, is its blistering speed. Being an exceptionally fast Pokémon, its base speed of 142 lets it out speed the poster children for speed such as Eternatus and Mega Mewtwo Y. However, I feel like the best use of its speed is to beat out a Pokémon that would otherwise win the matchup every time, Eternatus. With an optimized EV spread, it can maintain a speed advantage over the fastest threat that will normally beat it every time that it can potentially out-speed, all while maintaining the OHKO on the max hp and speed Smeargle sets,, but with that investment we still have some EVs left, which is where my spread optimization pays off. With my EV spread not only can Pult maintain the speed tier over Eternatus, and one shot the most popular Smeargle EV spread I have seen at the time of writing despite a focus dash preventing that vs every other lead, but with a perfect Hp to Def ratio Pult is able to survive a shadow sneak from life orb Marshadow, which I remind you is an attack off of a 125 attack stat boosted by 50% by STAB, boosted by 50% again due to technician, further boosted by another 30% by the Life orb, boosted EVEN MORE by being a super effective attack. And yet, the Pult lives, thanks to the optimizations.
Arceus-Dark
Arceus-Fairy
Arceus-Ground
Arceus-Water
Arceus-Ghost
Arceus-Grass
Arceus-Rock
Arceus-Flying
Galarian Darmanitan
Cyclizar
Fezandipiti
Annihilape
Darkrai
Gouging Fire
Iron Bundle
Landorus-I
Mega Blastoise
Naganadel
Tapu Bulu
