Announcement National Dex Suspect 3: Just like Water [MEGA BLASTOISE BANNED]

[Funbot28]

The National Dex Council has decided to suspect test Mega Blastoise. Mega Blastoise gaining Shell Smash in the generational shift bolstered it from at best a fringe choice to a top tier contender that every team needs to prepare for. The standard coverage of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Dark Pulse has very few counters once Blastoise sets up, after which both defensive and offensive answers are few and far between. Only Pokemon like Tapu Fini, Chansey, AV Tangrowth, and Ferrothorn can semi-reliably stand up to the standard Shell Smash set, and all of them detest Spikes, which Mega Blastoise is almost always paired with. In addition, Pokemon that can otherwise take a hit and then retaliate with a status move, like Toxapex and Gastrodon, can fall prey to a stray Dark Pulse flinch. Offensive answers have become very limited since the bans of Genesect and Zygarde, with Mega Lopunny and Choice Scarf Greninja being some of the very few options available in that regard. Mega Blastoise has proven to be incredibly restricting for teams, as teams are forced to run one dedicated answer, and often a secondary answer just in case, lest they be swept by it. Smashtoise has proven to be a dominant force in the metagame despite technically having counters. As such, Mega Blastoise is now being suspect tested.

Suspect Information:

• Mega Blastoise will be allowed on the ladder. The suspect will last for approximately 2 weeks, meaning that it will end on April 17th at 11:59pm EST.
• You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be NXTOISE. For example, I might signup with the ladder account NXTOISE Jho.
• Reqs can be achieved by getting 79 GXE with 35 or more games on the National Dex OU ladder. Reqs can also be given to finalists of room tours which will be announced shortly upon specific dates so keep attention to that.
• Once you achieve reqs, post the requirements in this thread (a screenshot of the accounts GXE and amount of ladder games with proof of account ownership). Voting will be taking place in a separate thread, therefore it is not required to post your votes in here.
• A ban vote of 60% majority will be required to ban Mega Blastoise
• Remember to keep discussion civil and stay on topic! Posts will be moderated heavily here so please try to follow the guidelines in order to avoid post deletion or possible infraction.

Tagging The Immortal to get the suspect up and the announcement on ladder games. Thanks in advance!

 

[Avery]

Didn't take long, but renewed my hatred for random midgame focus sashes.

 

[baconeatinassassin]

reqs

 

[lydian]

Hello, I believe you accidentally picked the wrong song for the OP, this is the one you want:

But well, just so this isn't a 1 liner I can definitely see why this 'mon would be too much, Tapu Fini and Tangrowth are not hard to chip down, especially with a team like HO which is the kinda team you should be using Mega Blastoise in. Chansey can't fit on most teams. Tangrowth is a fine check for the most part, but a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock up already seal the deal for Tangrowth, and it shouldn't be easy to get hazards up with the kinds of teams Mega Blastoise is used on. So in general, it feels like a very overwhelming setup sweeper with very limited defensive counterplay. The offensive counterplay is also very lacking, as it seems only Choice Scarf Greninja and Ditto can realistically outspeed and deal with it. There isn't much priority to deal with it either, bar Mega Lopunny and Bisharp. Plus Mega Blastoise has enough bulk in most matches to comfortably set up against most Pokémon, so that's not a problem either.

I definitely want to play more of the tier before giving a formal opinion, and I might even try to get reqs since I'm very bored in spite of hating to ladder, but even if I can't quite reach a very conclusive decision, I definitely feel like Mega Blastoise is a threat to be looked at and I'm glad it's getting suspect tested.

 

[Dylanronpa]

Wasn't that hard, lost to Blastoise twice. It being able to come in live a hit and shell smash is terrifying if your counter to it is worn down.

 

[zugubu royale]

reqs

I will for sure vote ban, the counter to that thing is legit ditto and if you pair it with grimmsnarl screens it can get nasty real quick
Once Mega Metagross inevitably goes this tier is gonna be nice af

 

[Atharba]

 

[Baltimore Beedrills]

Honestly did not think you guys would suspect this guy. Given that I got shredded by timid Mega Blastoises several times, though, I'm willing to say that this ban does make sense. I'll think about participating in this one.

 

[Meme0267]

 

[Xoliduz]

All done, most likely voting ban. I think it would open up the team builder in healthy ways.

 

[Mamoo]

The team I mostly used to get reqs x{D - Butterfly Power (A fun gen 7 team made b4 USUM)

This thing is an absolute menace. Players need a dedicated check & very often a secondary check as well to keep this monster at bay. It's coverage hits most of the meta extremely hard at +2SpA. Even the Pokemon that it cannot OHKO or 2HKO like Tapu Fini, Toxapex, AV Tangrowth or AV Magearna (which is my preferred secondary check that I'd been using to cover all possible coverage options) are susceptible to being flinched down.

With hazard & screens support (which is the best way to run it), this mon is a demon.
Tapu Fini (which lacks reliable recovery) can only stomach hits for so long.

Mega-Blastoise has decent enough bulk to set up on quite a number of mons & can usually stomach one or 2 priority moves quite easily when it is already set up under screens.
Offensive checks like Scarf Grass Knot Gren or Scarf Ditto are probably your best bets in dealing with it after that, but even then you need a little chip before the aforementioned Grass Knot can KO when it's under screens.
Scarf Dragapult is a curious case that can outspeed & kill through screens but it's not the best option as a whole.

All in all, I think I have made my decision & it's going to take a lot to convince me to change it.
& that decision is... Yes Artscee, I would like Pepperoni on my Pizza! :{D

 

[Éric]

I only fought Blastoise like twice lol

 

[DNNP]

Confirming as NXTOISE Gunna

Reqs

 

[daunt vs]

Confirming as NXTOISE dvs

I feel like the reqs were too low in both gxe and games , someone like me who hasn't played this metagame doesn't have an idea of how is the tier with only 35 games it's not going to be able to know enough to make a decision also it was also too easy to get the reqs. Because the low quality of the NATDEX ladder in the 1000-1500 range it's quite easy to play your first 20 games without losing because you only play against monotypes, teams which use sub-optimal sets and teams without viable mons. I only faced two mtoise during the suspect which makes it quite hard for me to known if mtoise is broken in practice and not only in paper (latter I played more games to have a better idea but that's not something that most ppl are gonna do) . I think this can be fixed easily by making people play more games which is going to make people have a bit more experience about the tier , and they are going to have to play more games in the 1500-1800 range where they are going to be able to find teams that represent better the meta.

 

[KirbCena]

Was a bit of a pain in the ass, but I finally got le reqs. Also only saw Mega Toise like once lol, but given my experience with it in the higher ladder, along with the points others have made, I'll be voting Ban.

 

[Ainzcrad]

Finally got this shit la regs, few the attachment for the proof, but like yeah mega blastiose is super stupid in this metagame when things just drop dead vs it. It has a hard wall in spdef fini but that thing doesnt do shit back so fack this shit ban it

 

[AverageAl]

Took me around an hour to get the reqs. First time actually being able to vote to ban for something. Faced a few teams with blastoise but didn't lose a single round to those teams, mostly because I'm using webs HO with stun spore and glare to stop it from sweeping. Kinda feel like the most effective way to defeat mega blastoise is to just overwhelm the opposing team first before they overwhelm you.

Leaning towards voting ban as balance and HO teams can be destroyed by shell smash blastoise.

Edit: Inserted another photo to prove I own the account

 

[austriangeorge]

Hide

confirming as NXSTOISE HomeOffice

edit. damnit, i used nxstoise instead of nxtoise as the prefix, pls tell me i dont have to do that again...

edit2.
confirming as NXTOISE no S

 

[tf]

confirming as NXToise SashRaptor
I find that Blastoise is really strong, I know that I am only an "isolated" case but I have swept a lot of games with him, I also think that toxapex can be haxx, so it is not an SI for me, only tapu fini seems to be the only check. I don't know the meta well enough, so I think I'll vote ban.
Sorry for my bad english, I used gogole traductor.

 

[Arkhan]

Confirming as NXToise Arkhan

 

[Korago]

Confirming as NXTOISE Mr Lugs

Went on a 35 game win streak with Avalugg stall. Will probably end up voting no ban

 

[Jordy]

Confirming as NXTOISE yes.

Get him out. This is the team I used all the way through.

 

[AmirAlexander]

confirming as NXTOISE AAA

 

[Vrevs]

Confirming as NXTOISE Vrevs

 

[sanguine]

fucking shadow realm the turtle already.

team I used.


bando-t is legit