Other Tier National Dex Alt Metagames Megathread (old)

[zastra]

Sneasel-Hisui and Basculin-White-Striped have been quickbanned from National Dex NFE!
​

	zastra	blinkboy	velcroc	Final Verdict
Sneasel-Hisui	Ban	Ban	Abstain	Ban
Qwilfish-Hisui	No Ban	No Ban	No Ban	No Ban
Basculin-White-Striped	Ban	Ban	No Ban	Ban

Shouldn't come off as a surprise, the Hisuian version of Sneasel has joined it in the BL. To put it simply, it's an extremely fast mon packed with great offensive tools like Swords Dance, Poison Jab, and Close Combat. Defensively, its checks included poison types, i.e, Golbat and Mareanie, but HSneasel had the option to cripple the aforementioned checks with Switcheroo. Sets like SD Normalium Z also began to gain popularity. Ultimately, all these was deemed too much for the metagame, especially with the ongoing tournament, and thus it was banned from the tier.

Last respects. This also shouldnt come off as a surprise, last respects is just broken. Baculin also had a great speed tier, especially for scarf, and also tools for breaking last respects absorbers, i.e, normal types, thanks to its amazing ability in adaptability and access to water stab moves in wave crash / liquidation.

Qwilfish-Hisui was voted on, but didn't get the banhammer. Still, we are going to keep a close eye on it. Same goes for Pikachu, although we did not vote for it in this slate. Other Pokemon on the watchlist include Rhydon, Vigoroth, Misdreavus, and Stantler, among a few others (but these are the top priority for now). Clas and hidin please thank you.

 

[Evie]

Belly Drum, Contrary, Articuno-G, and Zapdos-G in Convergence


Belly Drum

Belly Drum is incredibly centralizing. Belly Drum Urshifucan setup on common defensive pieces like Lando-T and non-Haze Toxapex. It can boost its Speed with Aqua Step and have strong priority with Aqua Jet. It is so restricting to the point that it forces either weird techs like Toxapex + Tera Grass Tapu Koko or Unaware users like Dondozo or Silvally-Fairy on teams that can't constantly offensively pressure it, Haze Toxapex can get OHKOd by Tera Fighting Close Combat. Speaking of Silvally-Fairy, it is also a very viable Belly Drum user, it can inherit both Belly Drum and Unburden from Slurpuff, turning it into a fast, strong sweeper. It can OHKO Toxapex with Earthquake and do major damage to Celesteela with Close Combat. Again, it is only really checked by Unaware users or heavy offensive pressure. This makes the tier more hyper offensively leaning which increases the use of stall to deal with the crazy breakers and setup sweepers.This leads to less balance and bulky offence. This is possibly a bit of a stretch but I think banning Belly Drum would be a net positive for the tier.

Contrary

Similarly to Belly Drum, Contrary is a powerful sweeping tool that allows for broken sets. Such sets include Hoopa-Unbound, which can boost its defense with Hyperspace Hole and Superpower and snowball very quickly with the attack boosts from Superpower. Hoopa honestly has no reliable defensive checks that come to mind, its only weakness is that it can't boost it's Speed so it can get revenge killed by very strong attackers but with its excellent stats and Defense boosts it's not easy to kill it. The other main Contrary user is Mega Sceptile. Luckily, it does not get Contrary in its Mega form as it loses it when it Megas but it can get good boosts from Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor that can let it sweep teams with it's phenomenal stats and good new coverage in Flamethrower. It only has 2/3 consistent checks, and none of them can also check Hoopa-Unbound or Belly Drum Urshifu, they are Unaware Chansey/Blissey, Regenerator Chansey/Blissey, and Heatran. Since you only really want to use Chansey/Blissey on stall, this leaves only Heatran as a good check for balance, making it incredibly restrictive in builder.

Articuno-Galar

My god this thing is so insanely broken. It gets very easy Speed boosts from Esper Wing and sets up Calm Minds very easily, especially with screens support. Any "resists" get obliterated due to Tinted Lens. The only "checks" are Dark-types but Hoopa-Unbound dies to Tera Flying Hurricane after a few Calm Minds or a bit of chip. Some replays to show how strong this is:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877259617 Articuno gets a few Speed boosts, sets up Calm Mind easily, and OHKOs everything
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877224630-e5dfbcypxnwv6zlpdmhclu7n3k9fj7qpw Again, Articuno sets up on a Specs Dialga and then OHKOs everything
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877126774 Articuno sets up with no real pushback and while it didn't sweep, it would've if I didn't miss Hurricane

Zapdos-Galar

This mon destroys HO and offense, and does serious damage to balances without certain Unaware mons like Silvally-Fairy and Dondozo. It's incredibly fast with Unburden and can get easy setup with Swords Dance and Electric/Grassy Seed. Example replay of how it can beat HO very easily: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877274029

Conclusion

These 4 mons/moves are very restricting to the point where Unaware pokemon are forced on non-HO teams or else you will lose to one of these threats. I believe banning these will increase the viability of balance/BO and decrease the viability of stall, while still keeping HO viable. Ideally we can get tiering action before the next round of trios but I understand if that's not possible

 

[Clas]

i dont have time to format this nicely or explain the bans but hopefully theyre obvious, anyway:

Swift Swim and Terastallization are banned from Godly Gift!
​

​	Clas​	Kris​	NeonJolteonWasUsed​	Runoisch​	The Dragon Master​	woo​	Result​
Swift Swim​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	6-0 BAN​
Terastallization​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	6-0 BAN​

if anyone wants to extend why then go ahead, but basically both are broken and allow for stupid 2hkoes n stuff or are just unreasonable to prep for

 

[hidin]

Contrary, Dialga, Porygon-Z, Belly Drum, Unburden, and Articuno-Galar are now banned from National Dex Convergence!
I don't want to dive into much here as I'd like to get the next round of the trios tour out, but do know all of these elements were quite not healthy in some way, and ridding them from the tier was best. These bans will take place in the soon to come Round 2 of the trios tour.

	hidin	Runoisch	Clas	gamer but swag	TheShowdownHoedown	Result​
Kartana	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	2-3 DNB​
Contrary	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	5-0 BAN​
Dialga	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	5-0 BAN​
Porygon-Z	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	5-0 BAN​
Belly Drum	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	5-0 BAN​
Fishious Rend	Abstain	Abstain	Abstain	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	0-2-3 DNB​
Unburden	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	5-0 BAN​
Zapdos-Galar	Do Not Ban	Abstain	Do Not Ban	Abstain	Do Not Ban	0-3-2 DNB​
Articuno-Galar	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	4-1 BAN​

If anyone wants to write about these, feel free.

 

[Evie]

If anyone wants to write about these, feel free.

sure (*=mostly copied from a previous post)

*
Contrary is a powerful sweeping tool that allows for Contrary Hoopa-Unbound, which can boost its defense with Hyperspace Hole and Superpower and snowball very quickly with the attack boosts from Superpower. Hoopa honestly has no reliable defensive checks that come to mind as Toxapex gets hit by Zen Headbutt and Silvally-Fairy gets hit by Gunk Shot, its only weakness is that it can't boost it's Speed so it can get revenge killed by very strong attackers but with its excellent stats and Defense boosts it's not easy to kill it. The other main Contrary user is Mega Sceptile. Luckily, it does not get Contrary in its Mega form as it loses it when it Megas but it can get good boosts from Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor that can let it sweep teams with it's phenomenal stats and good new coverage in Flamethrower. It only has 2/3 consistent checks, and none of them can also check Hoopa-Unbound, they are Unaware Chansey/Blissey, Regenerator Chansey/Blissey, and Heatran. Since you only really want to use Chansey/Blissey on stall, this leaves only Heatran as a good check for balance, making it incredibly restrictive in builder.


Specs Dialga had an incredibly strong Draco Meteor backed by phenomenal coverage. Want to hit any fairy? STAB Flash Cannon. Want to hit Celesteela? Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. Heatran? Earth Power/Focus Blast. Max SpDef AV Toxapex can barely sometimes live two Thunderbolts but after any hazards it dies to either Thunderbolt, Earth Power, or Draco Meteor. While it is very prediction reliant, it puts out an insane amount of pressure to the point where you never feel safe switching into it. It can get in easily due to its great bulk between its Steel-Dragon typing and amazing defensive stats, making it very hard to offensively pressure.


Porygon-Z being banned suprised me when I saw it but now that im looking at it, it makes sense. Porygon-Z gets all the moves it could ever want. Mainly Boomburst, boosted by Adaptability or an ability i'll talk about later. It gets Flamethrower for Celesteela and Aegislash, Earth Power for Toxapex, U-Turn to pivot out on any would be checks, and Trick+Choice item to cripple core defensive or setup pieces and remove Chansey's Eviolite to stop it switching in. Additionally, it can run Stakeout to 2HKO Celesteela with Choice Specs Boomburst or 2HKO with Boomburst after a bit of chip/Stealth Rocks, and 2HKO/OHKO pretty much everything switching out.

*
Belly Drum Urshifu can setup on common defensive pieces like Lando-T and non-Haze Toxapex. It can boost its Speed with Aqua Step and have strong priority with Aqua Jet. It is so restricting to the point that it forces either weird techs like Toxapex + Tera Grass Tapu Koko or Unaware users like Dondozo or Silvally-Fairy on teams that can't constantly offensively pressure it, Haze Toxapex can get OHKOd by Tera Fighting Close Combat and Urshifu can easily set-up Belly Drum due to Intimidate. Speaking of Silvally-Fairy, it is also a very viable Belly Drum user, it can inherit both Belly Drum and Unburden from Slurpuff, turning it into a fast, strong sweeper. It can OHKO Toxapex with Earthquake and do major damage to Celesteela with Close Combat. Again, it is only really checked by Unaware users or heavy offensive pressure.


Zapdos-Galar was the main Unburden user, allowing it to be a strong setup sweeper with Swords Dance. It was often paired with either Tapu Koko or Tapu Bulu as they could activate its Electric Seed/Grassy Seed, giving it a Defense boost and activating it's Unburden. It can setup on passive Pokemon like Haze-less Toxapex and Landorus-T with Roost allowing it to heal from chip from said passive pieces. The only way to switch into it at +2 is with Unaware users like Dondozo, Silvally-Fairy, and Swampert. It matched up incredibly well into HO, due to outspeeding and OHKOing most of the mons on HO, and offense as they would not typically run Unaware users.

*
This was pretty lame HO cheese that was way too strong. It gets very easy Speed boosts from Esper Wing and sets up Calm Minds very easily, especially with screens support( it can set up on a Specs Dialga under screens due to Roost). Any "resists" get obliterated due to Tinted Lens. The only "checks" are Dark-types but Hoopa-Unbound dies to Tera Flying Hurricane after a few Calm Minds or a bit of chip. Some replays to show how strong this is:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877259617 Articuno gets a few Speed boosts, sets up Calm Mind easily, and OHKOs everything
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877224630-e5dfbcypxnwv6zlpdmhclu7n3k9fj7qpw Again, Articuno sets up on a Specs Dialga and then OHKOs everything
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1877126774 Articuno sets up with no real pushback and while it didn't sweep, it would've if I didn't miss Hurricane


On an unrelated note, I am now Convergence council, looking forward to seeing how the tier develops after these bans.

 

[zastra]

National Dex NFE Tiering Survey
​

Hello everyone, the ND NFE Council is putting out a survey to gauge public opinion on the current metagame. We intend to vote on things ASAP on potential quickbans and your input would be more valuable than ever!
Anyone with Smogon account may respond and we will be taking a particularly close look on those who are playing ND NFE in the NDOMs Trios tournament. Click below to access the survey form!

>>Click Here<<​

It only takes a few minutes to respond, so please do so if you are invested in our metagame! We will keep this open for about a week (note that we may close it sooner depending on the responses because we want to act ASAP for the NDOMs Trios).

 

[zastra]

We received responses from 10 people engaged in our metagame, and decided it's satisfactory enough and that we'll close the survey early. So without further ado, let's look at the results:

The average general response was 7.8, which indicates that people find the metagame fairly enjoyable but there's still room for improvement.

The average general response was 7.1, which indicates the metagame is decently competitive and balanced, but there's still room to improve.

An average of 3.8/5, it appears that the playerbase expresses a good amount of support to act on Pikachu.

An average of 2.7/5, which indicates that the playerbase finds Rhydon fairly balanced, but there's still some support for action.

An average of 2.3/5, which indicates the playerbase finds Qwilfish-Hisui balanced.

An average of 2.4/5, which indicates the playerbase finds Vigoroth balanced.

An average of 2.9/5, it appears that the playerbase finds Misdreavus balanced to an extent but expresses support for tiering action.

Only 30% of people expressed support for a retest, 20% think it's very broken and 40% think it's best it remains banned. That makes 60% of people supporting for its ban. We will discuss this a bit.

Lesser support for a retest here. It's best Sneasel remains banned.

50% people favor it remaining banned and 30% are unsure. It's probably best it remains banned.

Looking at the responses, the council decided to vote on 3 elements of the tier: Pikachu, Misdreavus, and Rhydon. Here's the list of votes:

​	zastra​	Velcroc​	Blinkboy​	Final Verdict​
Pikachu​	BAN​	DNB​	BAN​	BAN​
Misdreavus​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​
Rhydon​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​

Pikachu has been quickbanned from National Dex NFE! ​

Following the overwhelming support from the playerbase, pikachu finally receives the banhammer. Pikachu has been a controversial Pokemon for a long time now. Packing great mixed offenses and coverage, alongwith an amazing movepool with moves like Volt Switch, Knock Off, Extreme Speed, Grass Knot, Surf, Play Rough, and Fake Out. Being a Volt Switch pivot, Pikachu could get past ground types with ease (more or less) thanks to its coverage options in Grass Knot, Surf, and even, at times, Play Rough for picks like Gabite, not to mention they can all be crippled by Knock Off. Knock Off is an extremely powerful tool which allowed Pikachu to even cripple and wear down better checks in Grass types like Servine, Tangela, and Roselia, and bulky spd tanks like Klang and resists like Hisuian Sliggoo. Faster offensive options were also not safe checks because Pikachu could threaten them with Extreme Speed. All these traits proved to be too much for the tier and as such the council decided to banish the electric rat.

the council unanimously agreed that misdreavus is fine for the metagame right now. although cm/np+drain kiss+sub can be really problematic, but we believe that it's nowhere near Pikachu's level. regardless, we'll keep misdreavus on the watchlist and see how it fares in the post pikachu ban metagame.

we discussed rhydon at length in the council chat as well as reviewed it with people active in NDOMs. most people, including whole of the council, agree that rhydon is fine for the metagame. although a powerhouse packed with amazing coverage and movepool, rhydon is held back by its poor typing and speed, and struggles vs most of the meta's top threats. we'll keep a close eye on it, though, and discussion on this mon is greatly appreciated! feel free to post ur thoughts in the nfe chat or this thread.

Other Pokemon we received feedback on include Swirlix, Naclstack, and Piloswine. discussion on piloswine will be greatly appreciated. Swirlix and Naclstack however are rather interesting cases, as neither pokemon has shown to be unhealthy. i'd prefer if people could show me replays of them doing something vs an accomplished player. anyway, thats about it, Clas and hidin please!

 

[Evie]

I know the main post isn't out but zastra asked me to post so Natdex 1v1 Teamdump



This team was made to lure Mega-Venusaur and beat it with Z-Brave Bird Tapu Koko. Mega Gyarados and Magearna cover pretty much everything else. Mega Gyarados can beat things like Mega Charizards and Sturdy Pokemon like Donphan and Aggron. Magearnas Iron Defense Calm Mind set is really good into the meta in general.



Z-Dragon Dragonite is an incredible pokemon, only really checked by fairies. Tapu Lele can check Tapu Koko and Mega Charizard X. Tapu Koko with some HP investment and Charge can beat Magearna, Mega Mawile, Tapu Fini and Tapu Lele with a bit of prediction.



This is a Koko lure team, offensive Z-Thunder Tapu Koko looks like it'd 3-0 but Mega Mawile carries enough bulk to live a Zmove and KO back with Play Rough+Sucker Punch. Tapu Fini can deal 3/4 HP with Z-Natures Madness and then KO next turn with a double BP Brine. Victini beats Steel types and Tapu Lele, while not discouraging Tapu Koko like Mega Charizard X would.



This is essentially the second team but with Magearna over Tapu Lele. Magearna has a better mu into Tapu Lele and the meta in general but a shakier mu into Tapu Koko.

ban tapu koko

 

[zastra]

National Dex NFE Announcements ​

(yo these never end)
First and foremost, I'd like to welcome sealoo to the National Dex NFE Council! They despite being lucky and bad have been one of the most active players of the community, and we hope their insights will prove valuable in the metagame's development. Feel free to shout at them if you find something wrong with tiering decisions.

Secondly, we have a formal VR now! Votes can be found here.

Click me

S Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are absolutely meta-defining. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
S
Piloswine [Eviolite, Choice Band, Icium Z]

A Rank
Reserved for Pokémon that perform extremely well in the metagame. These Pokémon are typically considered excellent Pokémon let down by a few faults, thus keeping them out of S Rank. They typically require more support than an S Rank Pokémon, but nonetheless are very effective.
A+
Electabuzz [Fightium Z, Eviolite, No Item]
Golbat [Eviolite]
Gurdurr [Eviolite, Flame Orb]
Misdreavus [Eviolite]
Qwilfish-Hisui [Eviolite, Darkium Z, Poisonium Z, Waterium Z]
Wartortle [Eviolite]
A
Frogadier [Eviolite, Focus Sash, Waterium Z, Heavy Duty Boots]
Raboot [Choice Band, Fightium Z, Firium Z, Heavy Duty Boots]
Rhydon [Eviolite, Choice Scarf]
Servine [Eviolite]
Thwackey [Eviolite, Grassy Seed]
A-
Corsola-Galar [Eviolite]
Duosion [Eviolite]
Sliggoo-Hisui [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Life Orb]
Hattrem [Eviolite]
Machoke [Eviolite, Icium Z, Flame Orb]
Magmar [Firium Z, Sitrus Berry, Eviolite, Heavy Duty Boots, No Item]
Mareanie [Eviolite]
Roselia [Eviolite]
Tinkatuff [Eviolite]
Tangela [Eviolite]
Vigoroth [Eviolite]

B Rank
B Rank Pokémon are typically considered good, but overall quite niche, and require much more support than a Pokémon in A or S Rank. Their flaws are also much more prominent than Pokémon in S or A Rank, making them less effective overall
B+
Clefairy [Eviolite]
Crocalor [Eviolite]
Dunsparce [Eviolite]
Fraxure [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Choice Band]
Gabite [Eviolite]
Klang [Eviolite]
Lampent [Choice Scarf]
Marshtomp [Eviolite]
Monferno [Electrium Z]
Naclstack [Eviolite]
Pawniard [Eviolite, Steelium Z]
Rufflet [Choice Band]
Vulpix [Heat Rock]
B
Combusken [Eviolite, Firium Z]
Dartrix [Eviolite]
Drakloak [Eviolite]
Girafarig [Eviolite]
Glimmet [Eviolite, Focus Sash]
Hakammo-o [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Dragonium Z]
Ivysaur [Eviolite]
Morgrem [Light Clay]
Quilladin [Eviolite]
Swirlix [Grassy Seed]
B-
Ferroseed [Eviolite, Focus Sash]
Fletchinder [Eviolite]
Krokorok [Choice Scarf]
Magnemite [Eviolite]
Metang [Eviolite]
Murkrow [Eviolite, Choice Scarf]
Palpitoad [Eviolite]
Quaxwell [Eviolite]
Sliggoo [Eviolite]
Toedscool [Eviolite]
Zweilous [Choice Band, Eviolite, Darkium Z]

C Rank
C Rank Pokémon are generally mediocre in metagame. They typically require much more support than Pokémon higher up the viability rankings, although they can still be effective in the right circumstances.
C
Gastly [Choice Scarf]
Lairon [Eviolite]
Mienfoo [Choice Scarf]
Seadra [Eviolite, Life Orb]
Vullaby [Eviolite]

Third, we have updated samples now!
- Qwilfish-Hisui Balance by zastra
- Spikes Frogadier+Tinkatuff BO by pannu
- Normalium Z Raboot+Shell Smash Wartortle Spikes HO by sealoo
- Fightium Z Electabuzz Balance by sealoo

Good cores have also been updated. That's about it for now, stay tuned for more updates!

hidin please update resources ty.
BB codes

VR

[B][SIZE=6][U]S Rank[/U][/SIZE][/B]
[I]Reserved for Pokemon that are absolutely meta-defining. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.[/I]
[B][SIZE=5]S[/SIZE][/B]
:piloswine: Piloswine [Eviolite, Choice Band, Icium Z]

[B][SIZE=6][U]A Rank[/U][/SIZE][/B]
[I]Reserved for Pokémon that perform extremely well in the metagame. These Pokémon are typically considered excellent Pokémon let down by a few faults, thus keeping them out of S Rank. They typically require more support than an S Rank Pokémon, but nonetheless are very effective.[/I]
[B][SIZE=5]A+[/SIZE][/B]
:electabuzz: Electabuzz [Fightium Z, Eviolite, No Item]
:golbat: Golbat [Eviolite]
:gurdurr: Gurdurr [Eviolite, Flame Orb]
:misdreavus: Misdreavus [Eviolite]
:qwilfish-hisui: Qwilfish-Hisui [Eviolite, Darkium Z, Poisonium Z, Waterium Z]
:wartortle: Wartortle [Eviolite]
[B][SIZE=5]A[/SIZE][/B]
:Frogadier: Frogadier [Eviolite, Focus Sash, Waterium Z, Heavy Duty Boots]
:raboot: Raboot [Choice Band, Fightium Z, Firium Z, Heavy Duty Boots]
:rhydon: Rhydon [Eviolite, Choice Scarf]
:servine: Servine [Eviolite]
:thwackey: Thwackey [Eviolite, Grassy Seed]
[B][SIZE=5]A-[/SIZE][/B]
:Corsola-Galar: Corsola-Galar [Eviolite]
:Duosion: Duosion [Eviolite]
:Sliggoo-Hisui: Sliggoo-Hisui [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Life Orb]
:Hattrem: Hattrem [Eviolite]
:Machoke: Machoke [Eviolite, Icium Z, Flame Orb]
:Magmar: Magmar [Firium Z, Sitrus Berry, Eviolite, Heavy Duty Boots, No Item]
:Mareanie: Mareanie [Eviolite]
:Roselia: Roselia [Eviolite]
:tinkatuff: Tinkatuff [Eviolite]
:tangela: Tangela [Eviolite]
:vigoroth: Vigoroth [Eviolite]

[B][U][SIZE=6]B Rank [/SIZE][/U][/B]
[I]B Rank Pokémon are typically considered good, but overall quite niche, and require much more support than a Pokémon in A or S Rank. Their flaws are also much more prominent than Pokémon in S or A Rank, making them less effective overall[/I]
[B][SIZE=5]B+[/SIZE][/B]
:clefairy: Clefairy [Eviolite]
:crocalor: Crocalor [Eviolite]
:dunsparce: Dunsparce [Eviolite]
:fraxure: Fraxure [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Choice Band]
:gabite: Gabite [Eviolite]
:klang: Klang [Eviolite]
:lampent: Lampent [Choice Scarf]
:marshtomp: Marshtomp [Eviolite]
:monferno: Monferno [Electrium Z]
:naclstack: Naclstack [Eviolite]
:pawniard: Pawniard [Eviolite, Steelium Z]
:rufflet: Rufflet [Choice Band]
:vulpix: Vulpix [Heat Rock]
[B][SIZE=5]B[/SIZE][/B]
:combusken: Combusken [Eviolite, Firium Z]
:dartrix: Dartrix [Eviolite]
:drakloak: Drakloak [Eviolite]
:girafarig: Girafarig [Eviolite]
:glimmet: Glimmet [Eviolite, Focus Sash]
:hakamo-o: Hakamo-o [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Dragonium Z]
:ivysaur: Ivysaur [Eviolite]
:morgrem: Morgrem [Light Clay]
:quilladin: Quilladin [Eviolite]
:swirlix: Swirlix [Grassy Seed]
[B][SIZE=5]B-[/SIZE][/B]
:ferroseed: Ferroseed [Eviolite, Focus Sash]
:fletchinder: Fletchinder [Eviolite]
:Krokorok: Krokorok [Choice Scarf]
:magnemite: Magnemite [Eviolite]
:metang: Metang [Eviolite]
:murkrow: Murkrow [Eviolite, Choice Scarf]
:palpitoad: Palpitoad [Eviolite]
:quaxwell: Quaxwell [Eviolite]
:sliggoo: Sliggoo [Eviolite]
:toedscool: Toedscool [Eviolite]
:zweilous: Zweilous [Choice Band, Eviolite, Darkium Z]

[B][U][SIZE=6]C Rank[/SIZE][/U][/B]
[I]C Rank Pokémon are generally mediocre in metagame. They typically require much more support than Pokémon higher up the viability rankings, although they can still be effective in the right circumstances.[/I]
[B][SIZE=5]C[/SIZE][/B]
:gastly: Gastly [Choice Scarf]
:lairon: Lairon [Eviolite]
:Mienfoo: Mienfoo [Choice Scarf]
:seadra: Seadra [Eviolite, Life Orb]
:vullaby: Vullaby [Eviolite]

samples

[URL='https://pokepast.es/01318731ec7e2d07']:qwilfish-hisui::hattrem::gurdurr::vigoroth::quilladin::piloswine:[/URL]- Qwilfish-Hisui Balance by zastra
[URL='https://pokepast.es/c5a6bdd327d135c5']:qwilfish-hisui::wartortle::frogadier::servine::tinkatuff::gabite:[/URL]- Spikes Frogadier+Tinkatuff BO by pannu
[URL='https://pokepast.es/bedb6c80c0b3573b']:frogadier::thwackey::pawniard::misdreavus::raboot::wartortle:[/URL]- Normalium Z Raboot+Shell Smash Wartortle Spikes HO by sealoo
[URL='https://pokepast.es/89e02f3e0e006caa']:piloswine::electabuzz::tangela::mareanie::pawniard::corsola-galar:[/URL]- Fightium Z Electabuzz Balance by sealoo

 

[Evie]

Boomburst and Virizion have been banned, Mega Gardevoir and Porygon-Z have been unbanned from ND Convergence

Firstly, I'd like to welcome Velcroc to the council, excited to have you onboard

	hidin	Clas	gamer but swag	TheShowdownHoedown	Orangex	Runo	Velcroc	Result
Boomburst	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	7-0 BAN
Kartana	DNB	DNB	DNB	Abstain	BAN	BAN	DNB	2-4-1 DNB
Virizion	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	7-0 BAN

Following the decision on Boomburst, this vote was held on pokemon that abused Boomburst when they were banned

	hidin	Clas	gamer but swag	TheShowdownHoedown	Orangex	Runo	Velcroc	Result
Mega Gardevoir	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	5-2 UNBAN
Porygon Z	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	Didn't vote	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	6-0 UNBAN

If anyone wants to write about them feel free, if not then I will.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

hidin update your shit pls

 

[zastra]

i thought it'd be nice to make an ND MnM post because... no one has ever done so, unfortunately.

THE BIG GUYS

sets

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Lava Plume
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge / Roar / Will-O-Wisp

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge / Smack Down
- Fire Punch / Stealth Rock / Spikes

Other Sets: Rock Polish, Mixed, etc.

pdon is back! the absolute meta-defining mon, now with new tools! yes, spikes and WoW are extremely good support options. pdon should need no introduction, it's an amazing role compressor that is likely needed on every team to not get kicked by the million offensive attackers. just adding as a note, a pdon check is a must on any team.

sets

Koraidon @ Choice Band
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Crunch / Flare Blitz / Iron Head

Other Sets: Clear Amulet Swords Dance, Roseli Berry Swords Dance, Z-move.

A relatively new introduction, koraidon is an extremely potent threat of the tier. pivot fightings have a history of being problematic in mix and mega, and its likely only a matter of time before korai leaves the tier.

sets

Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast / Psyshock

Lunala @ Power Herb
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Roost / Calm Mind

Other sets: Defensive Defog, Will-O-Wisp, Choice Scarf, etc.

Lunala is also back! Stronger than ever, Lunala now has access to both Z-move and Meteor Beam sets. CM is extremely good, and with Roost support, Lunala may be prove to be unbeatable for unprepared teams. It's also a good check to most offensive mons of the tier, and being a Ghost type means it can act as a fighting absorber. Overall, a very solid mon.

sets

Solgaleo @ Metagrossite
Ability: Full Metal Body
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Psychic Fangs
- Wild Charge
- Morning Sun

Solgaleo @ Latiasite / Venusaurite / Blue Orb / Cameruptite
Ability: Full Metal Body
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt / Flamethrower
- Morning Sun

Other sets: Aerodactylite, Slowbronite / Manectite FuturePort, etc.

funny how we r discussing MnM without putting a megastone on even 1 mon (so far). well now u have it. meta solg is a good breaker and speed control mon. aero works for extra power, but i prefer not being slower than stuff like eternatus. CM solg was extremely potent in SS MnM, but it might be slightly worse here bc stuff like Pdon are REAL.

sets

Eternatus @ Power Herb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Meteor Beam
- Flamethrower
- Recover

Eternatus @ Life Orb / Dragonium Z
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Recover

Other sets: Black Sludge, Cosmic Power, etc.

we r back at ubers again. etern is on the watchlist atm, and very rightfully so. it has access to an exceptional coverage and speed tier, and its high HP and bulk means its frustratingly difficult to beat. demon sets (Cosmic Power) are mu fishy but cancerous.

sets

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgement
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower
- Recover

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Gravity
- Earthquake
- Recover / Taunt

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
- Judgment
- Recover

exceptional defensive mon capable of handling many threats like Pdon, all the espeeders, Magearna, Solgaleo, etc. CM sets are extremely potent. and whats more, it now gets Dragon Dance lol. GravityQuake is funny. Whirlpool+Perish Song, the forbidden tech. good stallbreaker and bliss lure.
VIABLE ARCS
// SD EKiller.
Fat water
Angel Arc
Can use WhirlSong / CM+Judgement


mentioning all "viable" "mega" espeeders. eleki suffers a lot now with pdon's existence and likely needs glalitite+maybe tera blast to effectively function. harc, dnite and entei are practically the same but entei has better speed+sacred fire. not gonna mention spreads, all run altarianite. (other sets: glal eleki, pinsirite harcanine and entei, zygarde: lucarionite, heracronite)

set

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 52 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sacred Fire / Defog
- Brave Bird / Earthquake / Defog
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Recover

resident fogger ho-oh is back in the game. my fav birb.


it has a fuckton of sets so it's practically impossible to list them all. Manectite / Latiasite / Venusaurite / Blue Orb Volt Switch sets are good, and get tools like Encore, Spikes, Thunder Wave, Pain Split, Volt Switch, Fleur Cannon, etc. demon sets are likely worse here cuz of pdon (Calm Mind+Iron Defense+Stored Power+Draining Kiss). Pinsirite sets are cool.

set

Kartana @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Smart Strike

everyone's favorite: the kartana. fast af sd sweeeeep.


get ready for CM. oh, and water spout.

 

[zastra]

hi. i thought it would be a good time to make a post about nd nfe trends. so here we are.


Qwilfish-Hisui @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Gunk Shot

with its newfound set in waterium z, hisuian qwilfish has been proving itself to be more threatening than ever. its ability, intimidate makes sure you can set up with swords dance effectively on a wide range of pokemon, usually defensive ones like golbat, etc. you could also choose to run poison point to sometimes cripple mons like wartortle on the flip turn. crunch+gunk shot is good coverage, but (Z-)waterfall makes sure you never lose to / get threatened by mons like piloswine, tinkatuff, pawniard, etc. overall, its decent natural bulk with intimidate, swords dance, great speed tier (85, which is normally considered the start of "fast") and amazing coverage makes it a near unwallable cleaner.


Electabuzz @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass] / Psychic / Taunt / Toxic

and we are at electabuzz. z move again. electabuzz distinguishes itself as the fastest (unboosted) pokemon of the tier, and as an electric type capable of muscling past grounds. fightium z focus blast wrecks piloswine. HP Ice wrecks Gabite. HP Grass wrecks Marshtomp. Psychic wrecks Roselia (not a ground but still). the problem is, you face a 4mss here and have to choose between coverage. however, it's worth noting that both gabite and marshtomp lack recovery outside of rest, so you can easily chip them down to focus blast range. toxic is a generally good pick against mons like servine, corsola-g, etc.


Rhydon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Crunch

i am not joking when i say this: scarf rhydon is legitimately the best rhydon set, any other rhydon set is mid. i have seen people say things like: "oh, this tier is bad, they have rhydon. 130 attack dude. insane defense". frankly, i think that's a very immature way of looking at things. i have clarified this before and i will do so once more again.
firstly, rhydon's typing: ground / rock. edgequake. the offensive coverage is fine and all... but what about defensive? it's simply horrible. the below is a list of the vr mons, and their MU against rhydon.

Click me

S Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are absolutely meta-defining. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

S
Piloswine [Eviolite, Choice Band, Icium Z]: has super effective stabs against rhydon. risky to setup with sd.


A Rank
Reserved for Pokémon that perform extremely well in the metagame. These Pokémon are typically considered excellent Pokémon let down by a few faults, thus keeping them out of S Rank. They typically require more support than an S Rank Pokémon, but nonetheless are very effective.

A+
Electabuzz [Fightium Z, Eviolite, No Item] fightium z focus blast, or simply focus blast
Golbat [Eviolite] -
Gurdurr [Eviolite, Flame Orb] BU+Drain Punch
Misdreavus [Eviolite] wins cuz levitate+shadow ball / WispHex / whatever
Qwilfish-Hisui [Eviolite, Darkium Z, Poisonium Z, Waterium Z] (z)waterfall
Wartortle [Eviolite] lol

A
Frogadier [Eviolite, Focus Sash, Waterium Z, Heavy Duty Boots] lol
Raboot [Choice Band, Fightium Z, Firium Z, Heavy Duty Boots] HJK go brrr
Rhydon [Eviolite, Choice Scarf]
Servine [Eviolite] lol
Thwackey [Eviolite, Grassy Seed] lol

A-
Corsola-Galar [Eviolite] whirlpool, strength sap
Duosion [Eviolite] fsight or whatever move
Sliggoo-Hisui [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Life Orb] (z)flash cannon
Hattrem [Eviolite] psychic / giga drain
Machoke [Eviolite, Icium Z, Flame Orb] dynamic punch / cc etc. lol
Magmar [Fightium Z, Firium Z, Sitrus Berry, Eviolite, Heavy Duty Boots, No Item] (z)focusblast
Mareanie [Eviolite] cant switch in
Roselia [Eviolite] lol
Tinkatuff [Eviolite] encore, cant set up
Tangela [Eviolite] LOL
Vigoroth [Eviolite] taunt bu

B Rank
B Rank Pokémon are typically considered good, but overall quite niche, and require much more support than a Pokémon in A or S Rank. Their flaws are also much more prominent than Pokémon in S or A Rank, making them less effective overall

B+
Clefairy [Eviolite] -
Crocalor [Eviolite] wisp, risky switch in
Dunsparce [Eviolite] earth power
Fraxure [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Choice Band] low kick / iron head
Gabite [Eviolite] eq
Klang [Eviolite] magnet rise ggrind
Lampent [Choice Scarf] energy balls
Marshtomp [Eviolite] scald
Monferno [Electrium Z] cc
Naclstack [Eviolite] bad
Pawniard [Eviolite, Steelium Z] iron head, cant switch in
Rufflet [Choice Band] cc
Vulpix [Heat Rock] energy balls

B
Combusken [Eviolite, Firium Z] cc
Dartrix [Eviolite] lol
Drakloak [Eviolite] ???
Girafarig [Eviolite] special attacker
Glimmet [Eviolite, Focus Sash] ep sash debris. lol
Hakammo-o [Eviolite, Steelium Z, Dragonium Z] FIGHT
Ivysaur [Eviolite] lol
Morgrem [Light Clay] ???
Quilladin [Eviolite] LOL
Swirlix [Grassy Seed] get surf'd

B-
Ferroseed [Eviolite, Focus Sash] lol
Fletchinder [Eviolite] wisp...???
Krokorok [Choice Scarf] eq
Magnemite [Eviolite] get beam'd
Metang [Eviolite] um
Murkrow [Eviolite, Choice Scarf] um
Palpitoad [Eviolite] whys this ranked
Quaxwell [Eviolite] lol
Sliggoo [Eviolite] can fit coverage
Toedscool [Eviolite] lol
Zweilous [Choice Band, Eviolite, Darkium Z] uh

C Rank
C Rank Pokémon are generally mediocre in the metagame. They typically require much more support than Pokémon higher up the viability rankings, although they can still be effective in the right circumstances.

C
Gastly [Choice Scarf] eball
Lairon [Eviolite] ?
Mienfoo [Choice Scarf] hjk or w/e
Seadra [Eviolite, Life Orb] lol
Vullaby [Eviolite] ok

so yeah. its attack means nothing if it's rk'd by everything or has difficulty in clicking. only a handful of mons allow it free clicks. thats where the major factor comes in: speed. it has a pathetic speed tier, outsped by almost the whole metagame. oh, and shitty special defense, worsened by the typing factor. rhydon doesnt lack switch-ins btw: bulky grasses, wartortle, etc. so let's get it clear: rhydon seems like the best of wallbreakers on paper, but in reality, the meta has great seemingly unwallable breakers (looks at hqwil) already and rhydon isn't any different, it's easy to revenge kill, easy to defensively pressure, and is fine for the current tier. we will keep an eye on it however, especially if mons like hqwil were to receive action.
OK, so hopefully it's clear now, but let's get back to the set. The set aims to solve one of rhydon's most glaring issue: its speed. it makes sure it's not outsped by (at least) defensive picks (like defensive servine, gurdurr, etc). megahorn is cool cuz u hit grasses. however, base 40 means it still cant outspeed offensive threats... lol run it on webs or smth.


Corsola-Galar @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Night Shade
- Strength Sap
- Will-O-Wisp

this mon is criminally underrated, it literally feasts on almost all offensive picks barring a few like hqwil pawn missy etc. knock weakness sucks, but theres nothing you can do about it. i can say this for sure though: nothing likes switching in.

 

[pannu]

Hi, quick update on ND STAB! Kingambit, Annihilape and Kyurem are all being unbanned as they're currently banned because of the chall code even though they shouldn't be, we are also restricting gigaton hammer and wicked blow because those are very silly moves.

ATM our watchlist consists of Tera, Porygon-Z, Rage Fist, Spore (or sleep moves as a whole)

 

[zastra]

i have been denied my rights but i wont stop protesting... so i thought of doing this little thing once in a week.

National Dex NFE: Set(s) of the Week Month (?)
1. Normalium Z Servine

Servine @ Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Wring Out
- Synthesis
- Glare / Knock Off​

Normalium Z Wring Out Servine is an extremely potent cleaner. It distinguishes itself from other cleaners / sweepers because it also packs an amazing defensive provide and utility. Contrary+Leaf Storm ensures that its setup isn't passive. You already deal a chunk of damage before you get into +2, and Z-Wring Out ensures that you can take out otherwise problematic threats like Golbat, Roselia, etc etc. Glare provides amazing utility and totally limits offensive switch-ins to Leaf Storm like Eviolite Magmar, Qwilfish-Hisui, etc. Alternatively, Knock Off can be used to weaken down defensive threats by knocking their Eviolite, and also helps vs things like Choiced Lampent. Being a grass type and having respectable defense stats means it can take advantage of plenty of mons like Wartortle, Gabite, Rhydon, etc., and Synthesis ensures its longetivity.

 

[hidin]

NatDex Convergence: What if we made X more annoying!
I'm trying to revive this metagame since there's a lot of hidden gems in it even after Trios, so here's some Pokemon that become drugged up in the format to show what we have to offer! On another note, the Convergence Legality rule now works with National Dex formats, so you no longer have to remove obtainable moves and abilities; check out the new challenge code in the OP post here!

Sets

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Defog / Knock Off
- U-turn / Toxic / Knock Off
- Roost / Protect

Landorus-Therian @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water / Fairy / Normal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake / Knock Off
- Facade
- Roost / Protect

Imagine Gliscor in your head right now. That one Pokemon who's always annoying due to Poison Heal and Tera, the former which makes its longevity higher to absurd levels. It even can use Swords Dance and become what some consider a "war crime". Now, give it 145 Attack and a more neater stat spread; this is the result. Landorus-T has transformed into a bigger utility demon due to these changes, rather it be defensive sets that get tuned up because of the status immunity and increased longevity, or Swords Dance sets that turn into bulkier teams last nightmare as there is frankly no solid answer to it on those builds bar Dondozo, who can often be exploited in other ways. Landorus-T is arguably the best Pokemon in the metagame due to these changes, and with all the utility in its pockets I don't see it dropping in usage anytime soon.

Sets

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water / Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off / U-turn / Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Recover
- Rapid Spin / U-turn / Toxic / Earthquake / Protect

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water / Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off / Earthquake / Body Press
- Curse / Iron Defense
- Recover

Regirock @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off
- U-turn / Earthquake / Ice Punch
- Rapid Spin

Now imagine Garganacl in your head this time; the infamous Salt Dwarf who always finds a way to disgust any team with its own presence. He now has 70 more Defense and 10 more Special Defense, is faster, and has access to moves that compliments its tendencies to be a bitch like U-turn, Knock Off, and Toxic. On the other hand, Regirock has become one of the tier's best Pokemon due to all its received from the aforementioned Garganacl, Klawf, and Silvally-Rock. Often being the reason why you see Pokemon like Covert Cloak + Magic Bounce Pokemon like Cresselia that shut down it (well, variants without Knock Off and/or U-turn), Regirock is a metagame titan since it quite literally is the definition of free progress. Every time Regirock comes onto the field, something will always be done by it. Finally lives up to being a powerful golem!

Sets

Enamorus (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Earth Power / Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Enamorus (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Moonblast / Nasty Plot
- Trick

This is Togekiss but on bath salts, you're stronger, faster, and have better coverage at the sacrifice at an okay bit of bulk. Nasty Plot and Calm Mind are interchangeable but I think Nasty Plot is better to break instead of trying to break slower and tank attacks from Pokemon you would beat with Nasty Plot. Thunder Wave could be used on NP Enamorus to but its speed tier isn't that bad, it's not a bad option at all though. Choice Scarf is elite speed control since Air Slash + Serene Grace combo is obnoxious, and with Trick to mess with Pokemon who "check" you makes this probably the best Enamorus set. This Pokemon should honestly have some form of action on it sometime in the future, but I haven't seen it much. No doubt its a cheese lord though.

If you want to try out National Dex Convergence, you can look at the OP for the challenge codes and my bazaar post for some teams and a VR to help you build. As I said above in this post, I'm trying to revive this metagame since it's lowkey really fun. That's all though...mic drop.

 

[zastra]

ND MnM update

Now that kickoff tour has ended, we have a few updates. First and foremost, please welcome kickoff champion Eledyr to the ND MnM Council! Looking forward to work with you.

Secondly, we have new (and old) sample teams! (latter 3 added)

Sample Teams
- Z Dragonium Eternatus Balance by zastra
- SD Primal Groudon + Lucarionite Dragapult Balance by zastra
- Double Primal BO by Rifk
- Cameruptite Solgaleo Fat by zastra
- Skymin Balance by Clas
- Webs Offense by Eledyr

vr and other resources will come in a while, and we will probably have a survey soon:tm:. stay tuned!

 

[zastra]

ND Mix and Mega Tiering Survey 1!

>>Click here<<​

as promised yesterday, survey is live! click above to access it, and please take a few minutes to fill it up!

i would especially request everyone who made it to at least round 3 of the kickoff tour to fill in their responses.

tags

PociekMociek Clas TrainerGoldAlt Eledyr Velcroc about15guys dilllllllllllon Gangsta Spongebob

 

[Charis_Akins]

Natdex Little Cup: Scraggy has been banned!
​

By an unanimous vote (from the council who were active lol), Scraggy has been banned from Natdex Little Cup. It has become clear that Scraggy was unhealthy for the meta due to being one of if not the biggest abuser of Tera in the format. Tera Poison would completely turn the tables on Fairy and Fighting-types that would try to deny the Dragon Dance, and would also let Scraggy resist common forms of priority like Grookey's Grassy Glide and Timburr's Mach Punch. Most of Scraggy's shaky checks like Mareanie, Foongus, and Focus Sash Abra are vulnerable to trapping, and Scraggy could run a coverage move like Zen Headbutt or Dual Chop to remove them anyway. Add in the fact that Scraggy could ignore Will-O-Wisps and Scald burns with Shed Skin or snowball out of control after one KO with Moxie, we believe that Scraggy is unhealthy for Little Cup and is banned.

 

[zastra]

ND MnM Survey Results

We have got only 9 voters, so I will not go into details. In brief:

• The tier is generally pretty fun and competitive.
• potentially problematic: eternatus, solgaleo.

we held a slate in light of the results.

[NOTE: Ryan5374 has abstained from this slate; if you wanna know individual votes fsr, DM me]

The meta seems to be in an enjoyable state right now, and the results mean no change is required. if we somehow feature in the upcoming team tour, we'll definitely look deeper into potentially problematic elements.

 

[zastra]

usage stats for kickoffs

ND MnM

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Groudon            |   30 |  45.45% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Great Tusk         |   19 |  28.79% |  47.37% |
| 3    | Blissey            |   18 |  27.27% |  44.44% |
| 4    | Regieleki          |   17 |  25.76% |  58.82% |
| 5    | Magearna           |   14 |  21.21% |  71.43% |
| 6    | Dragapult          |   12 |  18.18% |  58.33% |
| 6    | Ho-Oh              |   12 |  18.18% |  41.67% |
| 8    | Eternatus          |   11 |  16.67% |  36.36% |
| 9    | Landorus-Therian   |   10 |  15.15% |  70.00% |
| 9    | Dragonite          |   10 |  15.15% |  30.00% |
| 11   | Arceus-Ground      |    9 |  13.64% |  55.56% |
| 11   | Cresselia          |    9 |  13.64% |  55.56% |
| 11   | Lunala             |    9 |  13.64% |  44.44% |
| 14   | Arceus             |    8 |  12.12% |  75.00% |
| 14   | Zacian-*           |    8 |  12.12% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Gholdengo          |    8 |  12.12% |  37.50% |
| 14   | Kartana            |    8 |  12.12% |  25.00% |
| 18   | Ribombee           |    7 |  10.61% |  71.43% |
| 18   | Slowbro            |    7 |  10.61% |  42.86% |
| 18   | Arcanine-Hisui     |    7 |  10.61% |  42.86% |
| 21   | Solgaleo           |    6 |   9.09% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Baxcalibur         |    6 |   9.09% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Shaymin-Sky        |    6 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Blastoise          |    6 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Xerneas-*          |    6 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Hatterene          |    6 |   9.09% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Golisopod          |    6 |   9.09% |  33.33% |
| 28   | Samurott-Hisui     |    5 |   7.58% |  60.00% |
| 28   | Toxapex            |    5 |   7.58% |  40.00% |
| 30   | Zapdos             |    4 |   6.06% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Zygarde            |    4 |   6.06% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Barraskewda        |    4 |   6.06% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Tapu Lele          |    4 |   6.06% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane |    4 |   6.06% |  25.00% |
| 35   | Heatran            |    3 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Zapdos-Galar       |    3 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Iron Valiant       |    3 |   4.55% |  66.67% |
| 35   | Kingambit          |    3 |   4.55% |  66.67% |
| 35   | Ferrothorn         |    3 |   4.55% |  66.67% |
| 35   | Iron Treads        |    3 |   4.55% |  66.67% |
| 35   | Tapu Koko          |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Excadrill          |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Spectrier          |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Annihilape         |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Keldeo             |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Basculegion        |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Iron Moth          |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Mandibuzz          |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Zamazenta-*        |    3 |   4.55% |  33.33% |
| 50   | Slowking-Galar     |    2 |   3.03% | 100.00% |
| 50   | Garchomp           |    2 |   3.03% | 100.00% |
| 50   | Milotic            |    2 |   3.03% | 100.00% |
| 50   | Genesect           |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Weavile            |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Pelipper           |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Swampert           |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Raikou             |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Arceus-Fairy       |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Grimmsnarl         |    2 |   3.03% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Glimmora           |    2 |   3.03% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Gyarados           |    2 |   3.03% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Deoxys-Attack      |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Blaziken           |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Latios             |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Entei              |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Manaphy            |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Garganacl          |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Scream Tail        |    1 |   1.52% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Hippowdon          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Chandelure         |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Stakataka          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Xurkitree          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Serperior          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Volcarona          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Melmetal           |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Kyogre             |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Clodsire           |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Chien-Pao          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Walking Wake       |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Terrakion          |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Shuckle            |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Corviknight        |    1 |   1.52% |   0.00% |

ND AAA

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Corviknight        |   35 |  39.77% |  45.71% |
| 2    | Great Tusk         |   33 |  37.50% |  54.55% |
| 2    | Gholdengo          |   33 |  37.50% |  42.42% |
| 4    | Tapu Koko          |   32 |  36.36% |  59.38% |
| 5    | Ferrothorn         |   24 |  27.27% |  54.17% |
| 5    | Tapu Lele          |   24 |  27.27% |  45.83% |
| 7    | Victini            |   20 |  22.73% |  45.00% |
| 8    | Kingambit          |   18 |  20.45% |  61.11% |
| 9    | Tapu Fini          |   17 |  19.32% |  70.59% |
| 10   | Blissey            |   16 |  18.18% |  43.75% |
| 10   | Azelf              |   16 |  18.18% |  43.75% |
| 12   | Mew                |   14 |  15.91% |  71.43% |
| 12   | Gliscor            |   14 |  15.91% |  64.29% |
| 12   | Medicham           |   14 |  15.91% |  42.86% |
| 15   | Chansey            |   13 |  14.77% |  46.15% |
| 16   | Terrakion          |   12 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Zapdos             |   11 |  12.50% |  36.36% |
| 18   | Manaphy            |   10 |  11.36% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Swampert           |   10 |  11.36% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Buzzwole           |   10 |  11.36% |  40.00% |
| 18   | Zoroark-Hisui      |   10 |  11.36% |  30.00% |
| 22   | Barraskewda        |    8 |   9.09% |  62.50% |
| 22   | Smeargle           |    8 |   9.09% |  37.50% |
| 22   | Rampardos          |    8 |   9.09% |  37.50% |
| 25   | Mawile             |    7 |   7.95% |  42.86% |
| 26   | Landorus-Therian   |    6 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Dhelmise           |    6 |   6.82% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Greninja-*         |    6 |   6.82% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Heatran            |    5 |   5.68% |  60.00% |
| 29   | Diancie            |    5 |   5.68% |  60.00% |
| 29   | Roaring Moon       |    5 |   5.68% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Zarude             |    5 |   5.68% |  40.00% |
| 29   | Zapdos-Galar       |    5 |   5.68% |  40.00% |
| 34   | Rotom-Wash         |    4 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Zygarde-10%        |    4 |   4.55% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Iron Moth          |    4 |   4.55% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Garchomp           |    4 |   4.55% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Meloetta           |    4 |   4.55% |  50.00% |
| 39   | Lopunny            |    3 |   3.41% |  66.67% |
| 39   | Kommo-o            |    3 |   3.41% |  33.33% |
| 39   | Quaquaval          |    3 |   3.41% |  33.33% |
| 39   | Volcarona          |    3 |   3.41% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Tangrowth          |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Latias             |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Regieleki          |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Suicune            |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Blastoise          |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Excadrill          |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Gengar             |    2 |   2.27% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Slowbro            |    2 |   2.27% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Sableye            |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Thundurus-Therian  |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Gyarados           |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Chesnaught         |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Metagross          |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Cobalion           |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Goodra-Hisui       |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Muk-Alola          |    1 |   1.14% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Mandibuzz          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Polteageist        |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Skarmory           |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Toxapex            |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Thundurus          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Jirachi            |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Porygon2           |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Glastrier          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Stakataka          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Ting-Lu            |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Cinderace          |    1 |   1.14% |   0.00% |

will edit in stab usage once its over (never)

 

[Sucessorsrising99]

Aight this is gonna sound ultradumb but...what would a national dex scarlet and violet 7U look like. A 7U that comes before untiered.

 

[Velcroc]

Posting this slate on behalf of Pannu in prep for NDOTSL.

First and foremost, LBDC and Velcroc have joined the STAB council for this voting session. Welcome on board! Now onto the slate:

Terastalization and Sleep Moves banned; Clangorous Soul Restricted*;
Roaring Moon, Palafin and Shedinja have been Unbanned​

Sulo is on leave of absence and thus did not participate in the vote
* The vote was done in the form of a yay-or-nay-style with Ban / Unban. The move is restricted to Kommo-o only.

Reasonings:

Terastalization

In a word: BTMC. Terastalization has always been contentious in STABmons as it already complicates the delicate checks and balances that define STABmons. Aegislash perhaps most epitomises this dynamic as it can, at the drop of a dime, reverse its match-ups into Pokemon like Ting-Lu and Mega Tyranitar by transforming into a Water or Fairy type. Aegislash was not the only abuser and other Pokemon like Latios, Zamazenta, Volcarona and Annihilape were just as deadly with Tera in play. Although the council will keep an eye on many of these Pokemon, it's best that Tera is gone.

Sleep Moves Clause

Rip Mega Pidgeot. SS and SV STABmons already have Sleep Moves Clause implemented and this is something that the Nat Dex council is carrying over. If you want a metagame-focused explanation, let me put it like this: every single grass-type (and to some extent normal types too) forces a switch if there isn't anything that is already put to sleep. In a more fast-paced metagame like STABmons, sleep is effectively a KO since you rarely get the opportunity to burn 2 turns of sleep (let alone the full 3). Having something this powerful being this common is definitely not healthy for the metagame and thus Sleep Moves Clause is implemented.

Clangorous Soul

Clangorous Soul was a massive boon for the multiple special attacking dragon types like Latios, Latias and Kyurem running amok. Clangorous Soul was restricted as a move rather than banning its abusers since we felt that Pokemon like Latios, Latias and Kyurem had adequate checks due to the offensive nature of the metagame, but these checks faltered when they could simply omniboost and break through. However, we will be keeping an eye on each of these Pokemon. On the bright side, Kommo-o is only slightly worse than it is in Nat Dex OU.

Unbans

Roaring Moon was only banned in ND STABmons because the code carried over Nat Dex bans (like Kingambit here). Regardless of how you might feel about Roaring Moon's ban from National Dex OU, ND STABmons is a completely different metagame. Already existing checks to Roaring Moon like Ting-Lu and Great Tusk are massively benefitted by access to recovery whilst offensive checks like Iron Valiant get even better with deeper movepools. On the other hand, Roaring Moon doesn't gain much from this format especially now that it has Knock Off thanks to DLC.

Although Palafin might seem like a crazy unban at first, the fast-paced nature of STABmons makes Choice Band sets less reliable and Bulk up sets more palatable. With Terastalization being banned, Palafin faces stiffer competition from the likes of Urshifu Rapid Strike.

Shedinja was banned because Terastalization made it borderline invulnerable and virtually unbeatable. With Tera gone, it is decidedly vulnerable and very beatable.

Watchlist:
A snapshot of the council watch-list. Subject to change as the metagame develops in NDOTSL.

• Rage Fist
• Porygon-Z
• Silvally
• Ogerpon
• Ursaluna-Blood Moon
• Latios
• Aegislash
• Annihilape
• Kyurem
• Thunderous Kick

And finally...

The Updated Challenge Code

/challenge gen9nationaldex @@@ !obtainable moves, Sleep Moves Clause, Terastal Clause, +Annihilape,-Basculegion,-Basculegion-F,-Enamorus-Base,-Dragapult,-Dragonite,-Kartana,-Komala,-Kyurem,-Tapu Koko,-Tapu Lele,-Zoroark-Hisui,*Acupressure,*Astral Barrage,*Belly Drum,*Bolt Beak,*Chatter, *Clangorous Soul,*Dire Claw,*Double Iron Bash,*Electrify,*Extreme Speed,*Fillet Away,*Fishious Rend,*Geomancy,*Gigaton Hammer,*Wicked Blow,-Last Respects,*No Retreat,*Revival Blessing,-Shed Tail,*Shell Smash,*Shift Gear,*Thousand Arrows,*V-Create,*Victory Dance,-Assist,+Kingambit,+Kyurem, +Palafin, +Roaring-Moon, +Shedinja, +Ogerpon-Hearthflame

 

[Uber45]

Why when I use this code they say me that teracrystalization clause doesn' t exist ?

 

[R8]

Why when I use this code they say me that teracrystalization clause doesn' t exist ?

fixed