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Announcement NatDex RU Community Surveys
- Thread starter Runo
- Start date
- Status
And with that we will be having our third community survey featuring some of the new drops and a couple of reoccuring concerns
With NDPL entering playoffs stage we have decided to run a survey along with it so that people can give feedback on this metagame. Here is the link to this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/form/national-dex-ru-survey-october-2024.105/select
The following users are being pinged because they are considered a qualified voter:
Don Bork Big Chungus irl BigDaddyAddy Adriyun Razorgliscor seth Dead by Daylight Velcroc Lizzie A plague doc BloodAce Estragos Fluore Kinzo Micaiah sasha Thiago Nunes Danbear02 Dlanyer feen Leni db Runo
If you belive you are a qualfied voter but your name isn't included then you can PM me.
This survey is open to everyone, regardless if they are apart of the qualified playerbase or not.
Deadline is probably going to be next Sunday (27th Oct 11:59pm -4)
The following users are being pinged because they are considered a qualified voter:
Don Bork Big Chungus irl BigDaddyAddy Adriyun Razorgliscor seth Dead by Daylight Velcroc Lizzie A plague doc BloodAce Estragos Fluore Kinzo Micaiah sasha Thiago Nunes Danbear02 Dlanyer feen Leni db Runo
Top 8 in NDRU Seasonal:
At least 2 Wins in NDPL/FL:
At least 4 games played in NDPL/NDFL
NatDex RU Council Member:
Don Bork
Big Chungus irl
BigDaddyAddy
Adriyun
Razorgliscor
seth
Dead by Daylight
Velcroc
Big Chungus irl
BigDaddyAddy
Adriyun
Razorgliscor
seth
Dead by Daylight
Velcroc
At least 2 Wins in NDPL/FL:
PL:
Micaiah
sasha
Thiago Nunes
Danbear02
Dlanyer
feen
FL:
A plague doc
BloodAce
Estragos
Fluore
Lizzie
Micaiah
sasha
Thiago Nunes
Danbear02
Dlanyer
feen
FL:
A plague doc
BloodAce
Estragos
Fluore
Lizzie
At least 4 games played in NDPL/NDFL
PL:
Micaiah
sasha
Thiago Nunes
Danbear02
Dlanyer
feen
Leni
FL:
A plague doc
BloodAce
Estragos
Fluore
Lizzie
Kinzo
Micaiah
sasha
Thiago Nunes
Danbear02
Dlanyer
feen
Leni
FL:
A plague doc
BloodAce
Estragos
Fluore
Lizzie
Kinzo
NatDex RU Council Member:
Velcroc
Runo
db
Kinzo
Adriyun
seth
Runo
db
Kinzo
Adriyun
seth
If you belive you are a qualfied voter but your name isn't included then you can PM me.
This survey is open to everyone, regardless if they are apart of the qualified playerbase or not.
Deadline is probably going to be next Sunday (27th Oct 11:59pm -4)
Last edited:
Sorry for the delay regarding the survey, I could not figure out how to make charts for some of the questions and I still can't so lets just get into it:
Have you made it to Round 6 of NatDex RU Summer Seasonal, have at least 2 wins in NDPL/NDFL, or are an NatDex RU council member? Select all that apply.
Of the 21 users who responded to our survey, 16 (76%) users were considered qualified users.
How competitive/skill expressive do you think the tier is on a scale of 1-10?
The average score for the competitiveness of the metagame was rated an 8, with the qualified playerbase rating it slightly higher at an 8.125. Although there are still some issues that need to be addressed, most of the playerbase is satisfied that they can play this tier knowing that it has achieved a nice balanced state.
How much do you enjoy playing this tier on a scale of 1-10?
Most people also consider this tier fun to play as well, with the average score being 8.3 and the qualified score being an 8.56. This is certainly a step up from the feelings in the Pecharunt or Enamorus metagames where they ruled with terror, the top threats as of recent are rather mellow compared to them and as a result, teambuilding is a lot more diverse and we're pretty free to experiment with a lot of the threats in the tier without any one threat being too overwhelming*.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Basculegion-F (on a scale of 1-5)?
Basculegion-F received a 2.3 in the general side and a lower score in the qualified side of 2.25, which is not really high enough to facilitate tiering action yet. That being said its still a very dangerous wallbreaker and was very threatening during NDPL with sets like Choice Specs. An eye will be kept on it for the time being.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Latias (on a scale of 1-5)?
Latias got a contentious 3.1 on the survey from both the qualified and general survey takers. The variance of its Calm Mind sets makes it a bit annoying to easily deal with in the builder with checks like Slowking or Tinkaton being rendered non-issues with Latias's Z-moves (Electrium and Firium Z). Other sets such as Choice Specs and Life Orb are incredibly dangerous to try to switch into and not easy to guess on preview either. That being said stacking checks for Latias is not hard at all with both Slowking and Tinkaton commonly being seen on the same structures for example and offensive Latias checks such as Scarf Krookodile and Slither Wing being really common. A 3.1 on the survey allows it to be slated however.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Slither Wing (on a scale of 1-5)?
Slither Wing also received a 3.1 on the survey from both the qualified and general survey takers. Buzzwole Jr. is a insanely dangerous wallbreaker in the tier as its STAB combination is very annoying to check with Wild Charge for coverage, making it a threat is very few hard counters in the tier. This is mitigated a bit by the fact that the soft counterplay that does exist (such as Togekiss and Crobat) can switch into its main STABs easily as Wild Charge on Choice Band sets is a risky prediction. Other soft checks such as Basculegion-F and Amoonguss also punish it really well for clicking anything other than U-Turn, while the common Gligar stonewalls it. Again a 3.1 on the survey allows it to be slated however.
Are there any other mons that you find problematic in this meta?
2 Qualified users mentioned Okidogi as problematic in the metagame
1 Qualified user mentioned Lucario as problematic in the metagame
1 Qualified user mentioned Runo as problematic in the metagame
How do you feel about unbanning/re-testing the following:
Deoxys-D
A majority of users believe that Deoxys-Defense should be unbanned at certain point, with half of its supporters advocating for it to be unbanned immediately. To Council, the Deoxys-Defense ban was considered a relic of the Tera metagame in addition to massive changes to the metagame that render Deoxys-Defensive more manageable in the current day. Some sort of action will probably happen to Deoxys-Defense after more contentious issues get sorted out first.
Iron Leaves
A plurality of users are supportive of an Iron Leaves unban, but there is also a lot of hesitation regarding the mon since a lot of the theories about it being a balanced threat is merely theory, with claims that its SD sets would still be really frustrating to deal with in the current metagame still being a valid opinion to carry. No action will be done for right now until we can solidify our opinions on Iron Leaves and other issues get sorted out.
Jirachi
A large majority of users think that Jirachi shouldn't be unbanned so no action will be taken on it for the foreseeable future. Z-Celebrate sets are what got it banned initially and overall despite having very "strong" checks such as Mega Aggron and PhysDef Slowking, it can still manage to cheese out a win with flinch hax. It's still uncompetitive by nature.
Porygon-Z
An even higher majority of users belive that Porygon-Z shouldn't be unbanned. Blissey and a multitude of Choice Scarf users exist in the tier, but its Z-Conversion sets are still way to dangerous to functionally handle consistently even without the benefit from Dual Screens. No action will be taken on it for the forseeable future.
How do you feel about unbanning/re-testing the following if they drop to RUBL:
Bisharp
Should Bisharp fall back down to RU, a majority of users expressed that Bisharp should be unbanned, with more than half of those users believing it should be unbanned immediately. Post-Tera there was always a call for Bisharp to return to the fold but unfortunately it rose to UU before we got the chance to do anything quickly. Still, there are concerns that Bisharp will just warp the hazards metagame around its presence and make the already shaky hazard removers worse. That being said, if it drops then we will probably have some form of tiering action or "suspect" on it.
Keldeo
A large plurality of users believe that Keldeo shouldn't be unbanned, most likely since the only real checks in the tier to it would be Latias and Slowking presumably as everything else can be dealt with by Keldeo (Air Slash for Grass Types for example). Although there is a large amount of people who are unsure about Keldeo so we will probably re-discuss this at a much later time.
Sableye-Mega
A vast majority of users are against unbanning Mega Sableye due to the unhealthy hazards dynamics it adds to tier and it being a major boon to stall teams. Most of our fairy types bar Primarina neglect to run Fairy Type moves as well so it would result in a threat that is very hard to check and can pressure nearly all of the common hazard setters bar Tinkaton. We won't be considering this mon for an unban anytime soon.
How helpful have our resources been in helping you learn the metagame?
Most users generally thought that the resources we provided were helpful when learning the meta, although there were major concerns about the resources being too outdated to be of any value. Fortunately for that crowd we are working as fast as we can to rectify that issue.
Do you have any suggestions on improving the visibility of our resources? (Please type them in the "Other..." box)
Suggestions are as follows:
Have you made it to Round 6 of NatDex RU Summer Seasonal, have at least 2 wins in NDPL/NDFL, or are an NatDex RU council member? Select all that apply.
Of the 21 users who responded to our survey, 16 (76%) users were considered qualified users.
How competitive/skill expressive do you think the tier is on a scale of 1-10?
The average score for the competitiveness of the metagame was rated an 8, with the qualified playerbase rating it slightly higher at an 8.125. Although there are still some issues that need to be addressed, most of the playerbase is satisfied that they can play this tier knowing that it has achieved a nice balanced state.
How much do you enjoy playing this tier on a scale of 1-10?
Most people also consider this tier fun to play as well, with the average score being 8.3 and the qualified score being an 8.56. This is certainly a step up from the feelings in the Pecharunt or Enamorus metagames where they ruled with terror, the top threats as of recent are rather mellow compared to them and as a result, teambuilding is a lot more diverse and we're pretty free to experiment with a lot of the threats in the tier without any one threat being too overwhelming*.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Basculegion-F (on a scale of 1-5)?
Basculegion-F received a 2.3 in the general side and a lower score in the qualified side of 2.25, which is not really high enough to facilitate tiering action yet. That being said its still a very dangerous wallbreaker and was very threatening during NDPL with sets like Choice Specs. An eye will be kept on it for the time being.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Latias (on a scale of 1-5)?
Latias got a contentious 3.1 on the survey from both the qualified and general survey takers. The variance of its Calm Mind sets makes it a bit annoying to easily deal with in the builder with checks like Slowking or Tinkaton being rendered non-issues with Latias's Z-moves (Electrium and Firium Z). Other sets such as Choice Specs and Life Orb are incredibly dangerous to try to switch into and not easy to guess on preview either. That being said stacking checks for Latias is not hard at all with both Slowking and Tinkaton commonly being seen on the same structures for example and offensive Latias checks such as Scarf Krookodile and Slither Wing being really common. A 3.1 on the survey allows it to be slated however.
How do you find the following mon to be in NatDex RU: Slither Wing (on a scale of 1-5)?
Slither Wing also received a 3.1 on the survey from both the qualified and general survey takers. Buzzwole Jr. is a insanely dangerous wallbreaker in the tier as its STAB combination is very annoying to check with Wild Charge for coverage, making it a threat is very few hard counters in the tier. This is mitigated a bit by the fact that the soft counterplay that does exist (such as Togekiss and Crobat) can switch into its main STABs easily as Wild Charge on Choice Band sets is a risky prediction. Other soft checks such as Basculegion-F and Amoonguss also punish it really well for clicking anything other than U-Turn, while the common Gligar stonewalls it. Again a 3.1 on the survey allows it to be slated however.
Are there any other mons that you find problematic in this meta?
2 Qualified users mentioned Okidogi as problematic in the metagame
1 Qualified user mentioned Lucario as problematic in the metagame
1 Qualified user mentioned Runo as problematic in the metagame
How do you feel about unbanning/re-testing the following:
Deoxys-D
A majority of users believe that Deoxys-Defense should be unbanned at certain point, with half of its supporters advocating for it to be unbanned immediately. To Council, the Deoxys-Defense ban was considered a relic of the Tera metagame in addition to massive changes to the metagame that render Deoxys-Defensive more manageable in the current day. Some sort of action will probably happen to Deoxys-Defense after more contentious issues get sorted out first.
Iron Leaves
A plurality of users are supportive of an Iron Leaves unban, but there is also a lot of hesitation regarding the mon since a lot of the theories about it being a balanced threat is merely theory, with claims that its SD sets would still be really frustrating to deal with in the current metagame still being a valid opinion to carry. No action will be done for right now until we can solidify our opinions on Iron Leaves and other issues get sorted out.
Jirachi
A large majority of users think that Jirachi shouldn't be unbanned so no action will be taken on it for the foreseeable future. Z-Celebrate sets are what got it banned initially and overall despite having very "strong" checks such as Mega Aggron and PhysDef Slowking, it can still manage to cheese out a win with flinch hax. It's still uncompetitive by nature.
Porygon-Z
An even higher majority of users belive that Porygon-Z shouldn't be unbanned. Blissey and a multitude of Choice Scarf users exist in the tier, but its Z-Conversion sets are still way to dangerous to functionally handle consistently even without the benefit from Dual Screens. No action will be taken on it for the forseeable future.
How do you feel about unbanning/re-testing the following if they drop to RUBL:
Bisharp
Should Bisharp fall back down to RU, a majority of users expressed that Bisharp should be unbanned, with more than half of those users believing it should be unbanned immediately. Post-Tera there was always a call for Bisharp to return to the fold but unfortunately it rose to UU before we got the chance to do anything quickly. Still, there are concerns that Bisharp will just warp the hazards metagame around its presence and make the already shaky hazard removers worse. That being said, if it drops then we will probably have some form of tiering action or "suspect" on it.
Keldeo
A large plurality of users believe that Keldeo shouldn't be unbanned, most likely since the only real checks in the tier to it would be Latias and Slowking presumably as everything else can be dealt with by Keldeo (Air Slash for Grass Types for example). Although there is a large amount of people who are unsure about Keldeo so we will probably re-discuss this at a much later time.
Sableye-Mega
A vast majority of users are against unbanning Mega Sableye due to the unhealthy hazards dynamics it adds to tier and it being a major boon to stall teams. Most of our fairy types bar Primarina neglect to run Fairy Type moves as well so it would result in a threat that is very hard to check and can pressure nearly all of the common hazard setters bar Tinkaton. We won't be considering this mon for an unban anytime soon.
How helpful have our resources been in helping you learn the metagame?
Most users generally thought that the resources we provided were helpful when learning the meta, although there were major concerns about the resources being too outdated to be of any value. Fortunately for that crowd we are working as fast as we can to rectify that issue.
Do you have any suggestions on improving the visibility of our resources? (Please type them in the "Other..." box)
Suggestions are as follows:
- Split the resource megathread into individual threads
- regular updates to resources should be a priority
Create sample teams(completed already)- Creating a good cores list
- Status