Rejected - Inactive More RBY Glitchmons

Yak Attack · Mar 26, 2021

So I noticed Missingno is coded, but a lot of other RBY glitchmons aren't present. You can view a list here. I would be willing to code them, as long as they're both competitively viable and not broken in an OU format. There wouldn't have to be a Glitchmons format, I'd just like to see them get the same treatment and be in the code.

Zarel · Mar 26, 2021

I added Missingno in for an April Fool's feature back in 2013 or so. I think it's good to have because it's iconic. I don't think there's a need for all glitchmons, but I'll wait to see what other people think before I make a decision here.

Plague von Karma · Mar 26, 2021

This is a much greater undertaking than it looks. There's glitch variants in both RGB and Yellow, and you'd have to get the sprites for all of them. Worse still, most either suck or are some of the most broken Pokemon in the series. Then there's the glitch moves, which some regular Pokemon can get via evolution or the trade evo oversight with GSC. Hell, how's the Johto Guard Glitch being considered here? Is it considered Tradebacks? If so, do you enable Tradeback moves? If you avoid Tradebacks, do you ban the Pokemon and everything from the Johto Guard Glitch? So many ruling semantics.

It's just a mess...

Cynara · Mar 26, 2021

Agree with PVK, there's way too much chaos with RBY glitchmons. There's too many of them and too many variants across the games and game languages, hell, some of their bsts always vary across the board because the glitch setup was done slightly differently, the results are never consistent, some aren't playable and the list of glitchmons and glitch moves that can be obtained is honestly endless. When you go into the realms of 8F and ACE, it becomes a even bigger mess

Plague von Karma · Mar 26, 2021

Cynara said:
the list of glitchmons and glitch moves that can be obtained is honestly endless.

Not quite right. There is around 100 Glitch Pokemon in RB and Yellow each, but I recall Glitch Moves having a particularly long list. I know there's some weird fusion glitchmons via the Q glitch though? I may need to refresh myself on the biz.

StephenPlays200 · Mar 26, 2021

I'm compiling all the viable but not flat out broken glitchmons on a list right now (they are all hybrids)

Plague von Karma · Mar 26, 2021

If you want to go through with a suggestion like this I'd say either go all the way or don't.

I also recall DaWoblefet and Kris attempted to code these before but went back on it due to the amount of manpower necessary.

StephenPlays200 · Mar 26, 2021

I think a more interesting idea would be allowing moves from prior glitch evolutions

StephenPlays200 · Mar 26, 2021

Yak Attack · Mar 30, 2021

StephenPlays200 said:
here's the list of interesting glitchmons in rb
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ゥ_(C1)
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/PC4SH
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/4B_8_4_8 evolves from https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/PkMnaPkMnゥ_♂_fPkMnk
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Aゥ_G
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/7PkMn_'v
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki//PkMn_▼PkMn
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/'v
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/.g
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ゥ_l_(F3)
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/'M_'N_g
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/O_(glitch_Pokémon)
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ゥ$_6ゥ
 https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/'M_(FF)

this is only red and blue

Plague von Karma · May 19, 2022

So I'm thinking of looking into this now that I've familiarised myself with what's "necessary" to do to make it work. I'll probably just make the relevant files for the variables and have a friend do the heavy-lifting with the validator and testing on some server. Some stuff regarding glitch moves may need looking into further because it's a bit odd.

Given Kris and DaWoblefet worked on this in the past, I am assuming this suggestion is "approved" in some sense?

So I have a few questions and could use a response to make sure I do this correctly.

RB and Yellow have separate glitch Pokemon and move effects. This complicates matters significantly.
- I'm thinking of having some kind of banlist deal like "Allow RB Glitch Pokemon" that makes them exist via a "Glitch-RB" tier, same principle for Yellow. Some exist in both (eg. Fossil forms) and that will make me sad. This could alternatively work like something else I'm doing behind closed doors, but we'll see.
- For move effects, perhaps I'd have to make them change based on being in gen1jpn or gen1, as gen1jpn conveniently does Red/Green and I can treat it as thd version for RB content. I am assuming this can just be done with a shitty if statement.
For MissingNo.'s forms, what would you be after? Just regular MissingNo.-Kabutops, etc? The Fossil and Ghost ones can get literally any move in the game, how would you want me to implement that?
- I also don't know if you use the RB MissingNo. for anything placeholder-wise. I'll likely be changing this thing in some way.
Some glitch Pokemon and moves will just crash or just break the game, I am likely to just skip any instances of these. Some have statistics while also crashing the game but for the sake of cartridge accuracy and my sanity I will simply pretend I do not see them. I know someone will beg on their hands and knees to take the opportunity to just let these be usable (4.4. eg) but I desire excuses to not take a million years because I'll have to look at how these fucking sprites work and probably record every glitchmon's cry manually please send help
I will assume the North American version of both is being used despite the gen1jpn use-case to save myself headaches. There's stuff like the French MissingNo. crashing games by existing.
Some Glitch Moves can be obtained via Tradeback shenanigans, how would we handle this? Could an additional learn-case be used for stuff learned via non-"any move" glitches, or would the standard glitch ban be enough? These would end up showing in the builder if I code them as-is and it would confuse people for sure.
I will not look for desyncs!!
I will not do GSC!!
I will not pass go or collect $200!!

Most people will say "just put them all together" but I am pretentious, stupid, and think that there's some niche scenarios where it would be appropriate to use one game's glitches.

MeepBard · May 30, 2022

May said:
RB and Yellow have separate glitch Pokemon and move effects. This complicates matters significantly. I'm thinking of having some kind of banlist deal like "Allow RB Glitch Pokemon" that makes them exist via a "Glitch-RB" tier, same principle for Yellow. Some exist in both (eg. Fossil forms) and that will make me sad. This could alternatively work like something else I'm doing behind closed doors, but we'll see.

It'd be more work for the poor sap who has to code them in (sorry in advance) but I think it makes the most sense to implement both RB and Yellow glitchmons into the simulator, even the mutually exclusive ones. For glitch moves with version-exclusive effects, implement them twice as [move name] (RB) and [move name] (Yellow), with the clause that both players are on identical versions to prevent desyncs.

How these version exclusive effects would work legality-wise in a hypothetical Glitchmons tier is tricky, but our main objective is just implementing glitch mons and moves into the simulator - what players do with them later isn't really our problem. Though for a (potential) solution to this issue, maybe the "main" Glitchmons metagame could be played on Yellow as the other Gen 1 ladder formats are, while Glitchmons [Red/Blue International] and Glitchmons [Red/Green] (do these have seperate glitches?) could be created to contain the Glitchmons exclusive to those games? You could even make a Hackmons-esque Unrestricted Glitchmons tier where unstable glitches can be used and mutually-exclusive Glitchmons and moves can be used regardless of version, I dunno! Doesn't seem too extreme considering how many sub-formats exist for RBY OU.

May said:
For MissingNo.'s forms, what would you be after? Just regular MissingNo.-Kabutops, etc? The Fossil and Ghost ones can get literally any move in the game, how would you want me to implement that? I also don't know if you use the RB MissingNo. for anything placeholder-wise. I'll likely be changing this thing in some way.

I think this would have to be a really bizarre case like Deoxys where Missingno.'s formes are considered by the simulator to be seperate Pokémon with different stats and learnsets but that still activate Species Clause? You could even make the argument that they're not really formes at all considering that (iirc) they have different index numbers. Also, is there a Smeargle-esque toggle you could just flip to give the Fossil and Ghost formes every move?

May said:
Some glitch Pokemon and moves will just crash or just break the game, I am likely to just skip any instances of these. Some have statistics while also crashing the game but for the sake of cartridge accuracy and my sanity I will simply pretend I do not see them. I know someone will beg on their hands and knees to take the opportunity to just let these be usable (4.4. eg) but I desire excuses to not take a million years because I'll have to look at how these fucking sprites work and probably record every glitchmon's cry manually please send help

I think if they have stats (that are stable and don't change based on glitch setup) and a learnset but can't be brought to the Union Room without everything getting fucky, they should be implemented on the sim but made illegal in anything but Custom Game and a hypothetical Unrestricted Glitchmons tier. Also - don't worry about cry accuracy for Glitchmons just have them all default to Nidoran-M or something for now because like 60% of them are either randomly generated or randomly generated AND softlock the game! Fun!

May said:
I will assume the North American version of both is being used despite the gen1jpn use-case to save myself headaches. There's stuff like the French MissingNo. crashing games by existing.

Agreed. PS! assumes as much for regular RBY metagames so there's precedent anyways.

May said:
Some Glitch Moves can be obtained via Tradeback shenanigans, how would we handle this? Could an additional learn-case be used for stuff learned via non-"any move" glitches, or would the standard glitch ban be enough? These would end up showing in the builder if I code them as-is and it would confuse people for sure.

These should be implemented, but not show up on the builder in metagames where Glitch Clause™ is in effect. Much like the other points, how these will be implemented is up to the players of a Glitchmons metagame and not really something we have to worry about, we're just here to document all of them on the sim it's yall's problem now

I think this is a really really cool undertaking and I am 100% in favor of it. If you'd want to make a research thread to crowdsource info about implementing these mons faithfully I'd be more than happy to contribute!

she was forced to code in glitchmons into PS

Fawfulmk-II · Jun 26, 2022

I mean if someone went through that bold undertaking I'd think AウG would be quickbanned because a psuedo-Gengar with Spore is the scariest thing I have ever heard of.

I guess it's name was kind of a hint there

Boomerang1234 · Mar 1, 2024

Zarel said:
I added Missingno in for an April Fool's feature back in 2013 or so. I think it's good to have because it's iconic. I don't think there's a need for all glitchmons, but I'll wait to see what other people think before I make a decision here.

Could you add more types of MissingNo., like the ghost or the fossils, like the forms for Tatsugiri

Rejected - Inactive More RBY Glitchmons

Yak Attack

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.

Cynara

Banned deucer.

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.

StephenPlays200

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.

StephenPlays200

StephenPlays200

Yak Attack

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.

MeepBard

Fawfulmk-II

Boomerang1234