M&M Mix and Mega

[Quantum Tesseract]

OP mostly taken from Gen 7 Mix and Mega thread

Art by Kaiju Bunny​

Rules:
Mix and Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with the usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved form has compared to the base species.

For example:

Mega Stones:

List of Stones

Banned Stones

Beedrillite (+60 Attack, -30 Special Attack, +70 Speed | Adaptability | N/A | 11 Kg)

Blazikenite (+40 Attack, +10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Speed Boost | N/A | N/A)

Gengarite (+20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Shadow Tag | N/A | N/A)

Kangaskanite (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Parental Bond | N/A | +20 Kg)

Mawilite (+20 Attack, +40 Defense, +40 Special Defense | Huge Power | N/A | +12 Kg)

Medichamite (+40 Attack, +10 Defense, + 20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Pure Power | N/A | N/A)

Pidgeotite (+5 Defense, +65 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | No Guard | N/A | +11 Kg)

Allowed Stones

Abomasite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, -30 Speed | Snow Warning | N/A | +49.5 Kg)

Absolite (+20 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +40 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +2 Kg)

Aerodactylite (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Tough Claws | N/A | +20 Kg)

Aggronite (+30 Attack, +50 Defense, +20 Special Defense | Filter | - Secondary | +35 Kg)

Alakazite (+20 Defense,+40 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +30 Speed | Trace | N/A | N/A)

Altarianite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +40 Special Attack | Pixilate | +

| N/A)

Ampharosite (+20 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Mold Breaker | +

| N/A)

Audinite (+40 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +40 Special Defense | Healer | +

| +1 Kg)

Banettite (+50 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Prankster | N/A | +0.5 Kg )

Blastoisinite (+20 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense | Mega Launcher | N/A | +15.6 Kg)

Cameruptite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense, -20 Speed | Sheer Force | N/A | +100.5 Kg)

Charizardite X (+46 Attack, +33 Defense, +21 Special Attack | Tough Claws | +

| +20 Kg)

Charizardite Y (+20 Attack, +50 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense | Drought | N/A | +10 Kg)

Diancite (+60 Attack, -40 Defense, +60 Special Attack, -40 Special Defense, +60 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +19 Kg)

Galladite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Speed | Inner Focus | N/A | +4.4Kg)

Garchompite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Sand Force | N/A | N/A)

Gardevoirite (+20 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Pixilate | N/A | N/A)

Glalitite (+40 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +20 Speed | Refrigerate | N/A | +93.7 Kg)

Gyaradosite (+30 Attack, +30 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense | Mold Breaker | +

| +70 Kg)

Heracronite (+60 Attack, +40 Defense, +10 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Skill Link | N/A | +8.5 Kg)

Houndoominite (+40 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Solar Power | N/A | +14.5 Kg)

Latiasite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Levitate | N/A | +12 Kg)

Latiosite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense | Levitate | N/A | +10 Kg)

Lopunnite (+60 Attack, +10 Defense, +30 Speed | Scrappy | +

| -5 Kg)

Lucarionite (+35 Attack, +18 Defense, +25 Special Attack, +22 Speed | Adaptability | N/A | +3.5 Kg)

Manectite (+20 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +30 Speed | Intimidate | N/A | +3.8 Kg)

Metagrossite (+10 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +40 Speed | Tough Claws | N/A | +392.9 Kg)

Mewtwonite X (+80 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Defense | Steadfast | +

| +5 Kg)

Mewtwonite Y (+40 Attack, -20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Insomnia | N/A | -89 Kg)

Pinsirite (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Aerilate | +

| +4 Kg)

Sablenite (+10 Attack, +50 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +50 Special Defense, -30 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +150 Kg)

Salamencite (+10 Attack, +50 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Aerilate | N/A | +10 Kg)

Sceptilite (+25 Attack, +10 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +25 Speed | Lightning Rod | +

| +3 Kg)

Scizorite (+20 Attack, +40 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Technician | N/A | +7 Kg)

Sharpedonite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +15 Special Attack, +25 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Strong Jaw | N/A | +41.5 Kg)

Slowbronite (+70 Defense, +30 Special Attack | Shell Armor | N/A | +31.5 Kg)

Steelixite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Special Defense | Sand Force | N/A | +340 Kg)

Swampertite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Swift Swim | N/A | +20.1 Kg)

Tyranitarite (+30 Attack, +40 Defense, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Sand Stream | N/A | +53 Kg)

Venusaurite (+18 Attack, +40 Defense, +22 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Thick Fat | N/A | +55.5 Kg)

Banlist:
Clauses: Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Sleep Clause, Mega Stone Clause (only one of each stone on a team), Dynamax Clause
General Bans: Baton Pass, Electrify, Moody, Shadow Tag, Calyrex-Shadow, Eternatus, Kyogre, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned
Banned Stones: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Pidgeotite
Pokemon that can't Mega Evolve: Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga, Eternatus, Gengar, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Melmetal, Mewtwo, Naganadel, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Pheromosa, Rayquaza, Regigigas, Reshiram, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Urshifu-Single-Strike, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zekrom, Zygarde-Complete


FAQ:
Q: How many Pokémon may I mega evolve on a team?
A: You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team.

Q: How do Mega Stones that add types function on Pokémon that are given a secondary type equivalent to their primary type?
A: If you use a Mega Stone that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Altarianite Togekiss). In the case of Aggronite, any Pokémon using this stone will lose their secondary typing (ie: Aggronite Tyranitar)

Q: Why does my Darmanitan-Zen revert to its base form upon Mega Evolution?
A: Mega Evolutions cannot be based off of alternate in-game form changes, and hence they revert to their original forme.

Q: Can Knock Off, Trick, e.t.c. be used to remove a Mega Stone from its holder?
A: A Mega Stone cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not.

Q: What happened to Red Orb/Blue Orb and Aggronite?
A: As of this post in the USUM Mix and Mega thread, Red Orb and Blue Orb have been cut from the metagame entirely. Aggronite remains in the metagame but has updated mechanics that will now remove the secondary typing instead of adding Steel typing.

Q: What about native Mega Evolutions (like Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite)?
A: Native Mega Evolutions are only allowed if the Pokémon in question isn't restricted from Mega Evolving AND if the Mega Stone is allowed.

Q: Why isn't Dynamaxing allowed in Mix and Mega?
A: Since Dynamaxing and Mega Evolving have never been in the same game, we would have to make up any interactions that the two mechanics would have with each other. As this doesn't fit with the rules of Other Metagames, Mix and Mega will have Dynamax banned entirely.


Resources:
- Mix and Mega Resources
- USUM Mix and Mega
- Official Mix and Mega Discord
- Mix and Mega Damage Calc (by Catalystic)
- More coming soon

Council:
beauts
astralydia
iapt
Quantum Tesseract (Leader)

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Sample Teams:


- Double Ground Bulky Offense by astralydia

-Infestation Dragapult Offense by ItsChew.

-Tapu Koko Semistall by astralydia

-Hex Dragapult Balance by beauts

-Venusaurite Solgaleo Semistall by beauts

-Ampharosite Mew Hyper Offense by beauts

-Heatran Bulky Offense by Quantum Tesseract

-Heracronite Zygarde Balance by Quantum Tesseract

 

[astralydia]

Some theorymon:


Kommo-o @ Altarianite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 140 SpA / 84 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

It gets Clangorous Soul, I know that.

BUT DID ANYONE TELL YOU KOMMO-O GOT BOOMBURST?
This thing is gonna be the replacement for what Zygarde did in some instances. It doesn't have ESpeed but god it hits hard, checks a lot of mons and sets rocks very well due to Taunt and most Magic Bouncers being unable to wall it (see: Blissey's disappearance). Sadly I forgot what the rest of the EV spread does at this current time but you can revert back to 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD if you wish.


Cinderace @ Lopunnite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn

Cinderace gets some very strong 3 move coverage but sadly doesn't seem to get the moves to abuse it. Never the less, I expect this to at least make a splash in the metagame as it no longer has much Fighting-type competition, with the best currently available alternative being Lucario. This thing also gets some pretty insane offensive stats of 176 Attack and 149 Speed, which while Infernape could likely do such a set better in the old gen, the slightly greater speed and initial power as well as Pyro Ball not hurting the user make up a bit for the lack of Swords Dance.


Weavile @ Scizorite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Bite
- Swords Dance

I'm not sure whoever said to me that Weavile got Close Combat because you set me up for a broken mon and just crushed my dreams otherwise. Weavile is looking to be a pretty solid mon in this generation overall with a severe reduction in priority users. However, Weavile now gets Icicle Spear, which means it can potentially pull off a 187.5 BP move capable of 2HKOing Arcanine cleanly. Glalitite may turn out to be better as the metagame goes on, however.


Gengar @ Lucarionite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

For now, we're out with Lunala. However, in exchange for it's Z move we got Nasty Plot Gengar, which may turn out to be an extremely scary threat this generation. This thing is likely able to get multiple switches on Altarianite users and the lack of Ghost resistances this gen may make it potentially troublesome to tank full stop. I'm expecting this mon to be on the watchlist for bans, it's looking that good.


Corviknight @ Metagrossite
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Roost

A different take on Corviknight. Most of the Electric types in the previous iteration of Mix and Mega are missing and this capitalizes on the lack of Flying resists catered to this sort of Pokemon. If desired, you can also run a Banettite stone with a more defensive spread, of which the viability I'll get into later.


Hydreigon @ Diancite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot

Alike to Gengar, this is also a fairly scary mon but instead of having coverage for ESpeeders it gets beaten by ESpeeders in exchange for generally stronger STABs and a more unique typing. Still expect this to be pretty strong as it might be able to pull out the surprise Flash Cannon or Blastoisinite set from nowhere.

:indeedee-m:
Indeedee (M) @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

It's baby Tapu Lele. Not too much to say about this one other than the reduced coverage and lack of a Fairy STAB hurts it a bit but the less powerful overall surroundings are going to be more welcome to it.


Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs / Wild Charge
- Swords Dance

Even though Zacian-Crowned is banned, this is looking out to be an extremely scary alternative. Zacian not only has Intrepid Sword making its already high Attack stat go to initially phenomenal levels, but it also has a solid Fairy typing and great coverage. Seeing as the only checks I can think of right now are Arcanine, Corviknight and Banettite Toxapex I'm not very convinced even this mon will stay for long. It's just that powerful.

Outside of this, a few more things to talk about.

Banettite - Potentially has a lot more viable users than last gen. Toxapex is looking to be majorly potent as a defensive Pokemon and Jellicent gets a few more options that makes it incredible as priority support. We also have Corviknight as a potential abuser and likely more to come as the unreleased mons are removed from their shackles.

Melmetal - Expecting this mon to be an utter beast in Mix and Mega. It's got such ridiculous attack stats and physical defense that I would consider it equivalent to a viable Altarianite Rhyperior because of just how much it can take on in theory and beat just by having a strong Attack stat. Scizorite and Pinsirite are looking by far the most viable but that doesn't mean Altarianite and others won't also be super solid. Definitely should grab a top spot.

Bonus:

Eternatus @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 48 SpD / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Recover

This mon may potentially be looking to be the best tank in the metagame. Kommo-o, Salazzle, Arcanine and Gengar all have a bit of trouble trying to get past this mon, and this mon hits fairly hard too.

 

[Cuddly]

Don’t mind me, just posting some stones for some of the new Pokemon
Alcreamie:
-
Sablenite: 65 70 125 130 171 34
Slowbronite: 65 60 145 140 121 64
Arctovish:
-
Abomasite: 90 130 130 120 110 25
Arctozolt:
-
Diancite: 90 160 50 150 40 115
Barraskewda:
-
Altarianite: 61 163 80 100 50 136
Pinsirite: 61 153 80 70 70 156
Lopunnite: 61 183 70 60 50 166
Boltund:
-
Altarianite: 69 130 80 130 60 121
Pinsirite: 69 120 80 100 80 141
Glalitite: 69 130 60 130 60 141
Manectite: 69 90 80 120 80 151
Coalossal:
-
Gyaradosite: 110 110 150 90 120 30
Aggronite: 110 110 170 80 110 30
Corviknight:
-
Sablenite: 98 97 155 73 135 37
Cursola:
-
Altarianite: 60 135 70 185 130 30
Audinite: 60 95 90 165 170 30
Diancite: 60 155 10 205 90 90
Slowbronite: 60 95 120 175 140 30
Dracovish:
-
Swampertite: 90 130 120 80 100 85
Dracozolt:
-
Diancite: 90 160 50 140 30 135
Glalitite: 90 140 90 120 70 95
Dragapult:
-
Scizorite: 88 140 115 110 95 152
Altarianite: 88 160 95 140 75 142
Pinsirite: 88 150 95 110 95 162
Audinite: 88 120 115 120 115 142
Alakazite: 88 120 95 140 85 172
Part 1

 

[Gman]

I'll post this to complement Chazm 's extensive first input. However, I'll try to focus on a defensive standpoint, mainly.

Mandibuzz @ Sablenite
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Mandibuzz's viability may take a hit as:
1. A lot of threats to it are expected to rise in usage (Weavile and other Glalitite abusers; Kommo'o, Lucario, Arcanine and other Altarianite abusers);
2. Lunala is still unreleased, and the specially offensive Ghosts and Darks (Gengar, Hydreigon) are a bit less susceptible to Mandibuzz's Foul Play and may prove overwhelming if they are stacked and using Nasty Plot.
3. Two of Mandibuzz's best defensive partners, i.e. Magearna and Arceus Fairy, are illegal; Mew, who also had amazing synergy, is now impeded to function as a defensive wall.
Nevertheless, Mandibuzz's role as a blanket check and slow pivot is likely to still be valuable. In particular, the lack of viable defoggers (due to the depart of support Arceus forms, of Lunala, and Mew's downfall) enhances the need for a solid alternative, which Mandibuzz has always provided.


Toxapex @ Banettite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Haze
- Scald
- Recover

Toxapex's role is about to change drastically. Its Gyaradosite set is expected to be less needed, as long as Lunala stays unreleased, although it still constitutes a solid Gengar counter.
Latiasite will be viable only if Ground-types are able to retain a place in the meta-game (which is not unlikely), but the depart of Arceus Ground and Primal Groudon definitely reduces the need for this stone.
On the other hand, Set-up moves have been widely distributed this generation, so, as Chazm mentioned, it makes sense that Banettite's utility will be enhanced as a consequence, Prankster Haze being one of the most effective countermeasures to Set-up.
Additionally, Toxapex bolsters a resistance to Fighting, Fire and especially Fairy moves, which may help it synergize well with Mandibuzz, as Toxapex is a defensive Pokemon that does not require a Sablenite to function well, and since Mandibuzz offers extremely appreciated immunities to both Ground and Psychic, and Tapu Lele can't destroy this core anymore.
Also, Scald is a spammable move again!


Hippowdon @ Sablenite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock/Stone Edge
- Whirlwind/Toxic

This can also work with a Venusaurite, if need be. Hippodown's role as a physical blanket check used to be quite decent in gen 7 Mix and Mega, prior to the prevalence of specially attacking Primal Groudon as well as the rise of Kartana. The depart of the Orbs helps it as both fostered users that threatened Hippowdon (powerful special attackers for Red Orb, Water-type behemoths for Blue Orb). Setting Stealth Rocks might prove difficult depending on the Sablenite abusers. Stone Edge may help in dealing with the inevitable Pinsirite Arcanine. Whirlwind and Toxic are decent anti-set-up countermeasures.
A more offensive set using Altarianite could also work decently (Ground Fairy coverage is really good), as the stone is a bit more free due to Zygarde's depart, and as fewer ground resistances are to be expected on teams with Zygarde, Groudon and Arceus Ground being illegal.


Milotic @ Manectite
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic/Haze

Straightforward physical wall that appreciates the lack of Electric-type physical attackers to better its attempts at blanket checking the array of physical attackers that may rise in viability. Nothing too extraordinary, Toxapex fulfills this role better. However, one may prefer the absence of a Ground weakness on some teams.


Jellicent @ Banettite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
- Strength Sap/Recover
- Hex/Strenght Sap

Yet another bulky Water-type that appreciates the lack of Red Orb. Jellicent has a new toy to play with in Strength Sap, which, alongside Scald (and potentially Will-O-Wisp) will prove to be scary to physical attackers. While similar to Toxapex yet again, Jellicent's immunities to Fighting (and less so Normal) may be situationally useful.


Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp

Nothing amazing at all, here, and probably just as unviable as it was last gen. However, Shedinja can appreciate the new item and make use of it, in a meta-game where the coverage of a lot of threats is generally known. Lack of Pursuit and Hidden Power alongside HDB help Shedinja in countering threats that lack Super Effective coverage. The same goes for the absence of Moongeist Beam and Sunsteel Strike.
The new item adds to the unpredictability of Shedinja, as Focus Sash (and to a lesser extent Lum Berry) are still possibilities. It has the perk of needing hazard control a lot less. However, one mistake (not predicting coverage, using status on a bouncer, staying in on weather, staying in on status etc.), and the bug is out.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Sneak
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Claw/Toxic
- King's Shield

Not as good as last Generation (where it was already bad), because:
1. Its niche as a mon that could check Terrakion and Kartana and RK Lunala is gone.
2. King's Shield and stats nerf.
3. Mandibuzz still exists.
However, the depart of so many Ground-types may still prove beneficial. Paired with a bulky water, Aegislash's unique set of resistances and immunities is not to be underestimated. Besides, the competition for bulky Steel-types that have offensive presence is much less pronounced in Sword and Shield, with Magearna and Necrozma DM out of the game and Aggronite's changed mechanics. So who knows, it might actually be useable.


Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def or 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe (with a Jolly Nature)
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Bash
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Filler

I really don't know about this. It has very good stats, a typing that can synergize ok-ish with other mons on this list (although Flying, Fairy and Psychic neutralities are really a pain), and decent offensive presence with good coverage. Its support move-pool, however, is almost non-existant. Also, I can't decide which spread I like best (or dislike the least).


As one can notice, Aggronite changing and the fact that Arceus Rock, Primal Groudon, Magearna and other bulky steels, Zapdos, Zekrom and Zeraora are illegal or unreleased, opens up the way for a wide variety of Pinsirite attackers (Magearna, Entei, Metagross and Terrakion being gone also enhances the unpredictability of the Stone).
Zamazenta, the new bulky Steel, suffers from the neutrality to Flying-type moves and the potential Fire/Fighting coverage that Arcanine/Lucario would carry.
I really like Pinsirite as a Stone, and I was categorically against a suspect in USUM. However, this time around, I'll wait and see before forming an educated opinion (I guess this is me saying that it's on my watchlist).

On more offensive Pokemon, I just looked into Gen 7 VR to see what I could find. Here's a few.

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform

Same old Ditto set, now with more class. The wider distribution of Set-up enhances the need to punish said moves, and Ditto does it very well. Additionally, the lack of Return/Frustration lessens the extent to which a builder can try to Improof.
Of course, the loss of Blissey, Buzzwole, Zapdos, Giratina, Skarmory, Arceus, Palossand and the Mew nerf will likely mean that stall is not going to be more viable than last gen, so Ditto loses one of the archetypes where it shone best.


Mew @ Abomasite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard

Mew @ Altarianite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Tailwind
- Explosion
- Taunt/Body Slam

The lack of recovery means that Mew is relegated to more offensive roles that might not even have a niche. Abomasite + Veil is better than last generation, since the lack of Orbs really helps this kind of play-style.
Another minor nerf is that Mew is now forced to run 31 IV in Attack, which makes it more vulnerable to Foul Play.


Mamoswine @ Lucarionite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

The one Pokemon (alongside Excadrill) that may really warrant the usage of Latiasite Toxapex. This thing already had very few checks in USUM, and now, with the meta-game announcing itself as less Ground-type centric, it may have an easier time in demolishing defensive cores. Furthermore, with PDon, Metagross and Terrakion cut, Mamoswine is probably the last SR setter that remains from last generations's VR.
Orbs being gone is also positive for Mamoswine, as it may lose a counter in Golisopod as well as several checks in faster Red Orb users and Defensive PDon. The Red Orb ban is a double edged sword to Mamo, however, as several bulky Water-types may rise in ranks, which the mammoth won't appreciate.


Golisopod @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
- Liquidation

Goli loses Blue Orb, and with it most of its potential, as:
1. It can't switch in recklessly, as its weird ability risks activating.
2. Orb wars and specifically checking PDon were some of Golisopod's perks.
3. The Orb seemed to be tailored for Goli, as it granted it huge attack and a bit of Special Defense, while also boosting Water-type moves significantly.
4. With most other offensive Stones, it can't underspeed Mandibuzz.
5. Arceus Ground, which Golisopod countered, is also gone.
6. Aerilate Espeed is likely to maintain a steady place in the meta-game.
However, the need to override Harsh Sunshine is no more, and Golisopod may very well have some viability with other offensive sets like the one above.


Lucario @ Altarianite/Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Filler

Lucario has now significantly lower competition as an Extreme Speed user, with Arcanine and Raichu being the only other users to be likely viable. While it won't be as versatile as Arcanine due to a less useful ability and reduced bulk, Lucario's combination of SD and Extreme Speed is very dangerous, especially in a meta-game where Psychic Terrain will plausibly see lower usage. Reduced SR vulnerability also speaks in favor of Lucario. Close Combat provides good coverage to both Ate-types.
Here, you can see Lucario in action in USUM.


Noivern @ Salamencite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Roost
- U-turn/Defog
- Taunt/Defog

Not as needed as a Ground resistance (and it was shaky at that), but still, Noivern packs a decent punch, and it can fit on offensive cores that spam Flying type attacks without needing a Pinsirite, which is a decent perk. It can work on VoltTurn cores.
Additionally, its role as a Defogger and/or a Taunt user will likely be valuable, since Shuckle is unbanned and Noivern was one of the best counterplays to Webs until Manectite Xurkitree.

---
Also, thank you xavgb, In The Hills, and Chazm for this opportunity! Working alongside you guys and Andyboy is something I never even dreamed of doing! Quantum Tesseract, can't wait to get to witness your experience first hand!

 

[Andyboy]

We survived! Super excited to see how this carries over into Gen 8 and exploring all of the new options we have at our disposal. One obvious thing that I still want to stress is just how different this meta will be from Gen 7. If you were tired of seeing Pdon, Mage and Zyg on the majority of teams, then welcome to Sword and Shield because this dominant trio is going to be absent from Sword and Shield. I would argue this is the most colossal shift that Mix and Mega has ever experienced in its lifetime and I think that's really neat because we are entering a time where we don't know anything for sure. What mons will remain consistently strong from last Gen and which new mons will shine? I think it is going to be fresh and exciting to explore that with everyone in Gen 8!

One thing that i've been discussing with others is how disgusting Terrakion is going to be in this metagame and honestly speaking, why he should probably be banned and probably fairly quickly at that. Terrakion has always been one of the most consistently powerful threats in Gen 7 Mix and Mega. His Fighting/Rock STABS are exceptionally difficult to wall and the later invention of Pinsirite variants made it almost impossible to wall all Terrakion sets in a single defensive answer unless you were running something like Palossand or Doublade. It was close to being banned several times and that was in a meta with multiple very strong and consistent Altarianite Extreme Speed users in Zygarde and Entei as well as bulky Arceus formes and splashable defensive counterplay. Fairyceus was a tried and true check to Lucarionite and Diancite Terrakion and because Diancite Terrakion was by far the most common variant late in Gen 7, you could usually get away with running something like max defense Manectite Magearna and a defensive Arceus-Ground for your Terrakion counterplay.

Now let's bring this into perspective for this gen. We have no Arceus, Magearna, Zygarde, Entei, or any of the commonly used Espeeders from Gen 7. We don't even have Buzzwole, Slowbro, Palossand, Lunala (yet), the point i'm trying to make is that almost the entirety of the Terrakion counterplay we saw in Gen 7 is completely absent from Gen 8. That should raise serious alarm flags considering the only "decent" Terrakion counters with consistent recovery we could find were things like Hippowdon, Altarianite Flygon, and Banettite Toxapex. Hippowdon can't even run Sablenite because Terrakion can just SD once when it comes in, SD again as Hippo fails to kill it with EQ, and then Kill it with +4 Close Combat. Altarianite Flygon is a pretty terrible Terrakion check because you need to run some significant bulk investment to guarantee living +2 Close Combat from Lucarionite and that's not even factoring in possible Stealth Rock. Banettite Toxapex is going to be great this gen and it does take on most Terrakion sets decently with Prankster Haze. However, the traditional Taunt SD breaking Terrakions are a menace to this functioning properly. There are certainly other Terrakion checks, like Latiasite Doublade, Runerigus, and cheesy checks like Mimikyu and Dugtrio. However, outside of Doublade, these aren't exactly great and either lack reliable recovery or can be heavily exploited by Pinsirite.

Speaking of Pinsirite Terrakion, Hippo and Flygon get blown open by this guy. Banettite Toxapex can handle it the best out of those three, but because EQ does 42-50% it can get into uncomfortable scenarios where it is forced to Recover over and over as Pinsrak keeps clicking EQ and if it doesn't get a burn eventually it is going to run out of Recover PP and lose. Pinsrak can even run Facade if it wants to punish possible Toxapex Scalds and effectively beat it better. Our two new Espeeders are looking to be Arcanine and Lucario. While i'm excited to see how these two function, particularly Lucario, they are much more limited than Zygarde, Entei, and when we only have TWO decent pixispeeders to try and deal with threats like Terrakion, I think it will prove to be far too much for this new metagame.

The main point of making this post is to share an example of how different this meta is, how that changes the dynamic of how certain mechanics and mons function, why that's exciting and different and we should be excited about that change, and last but not least, give some early reasoning on why we shouldn't be surprised if Terrakion is deemed too powerful for Sword and Shield. I wanted to discuss some other threats I see making huge strides this Gen but this post is already way too long... Classic. With that said, I can't stress enough how excited I am that we get this opportunity to continue MnM into Gen 8 and i'm ready to develop and play this brand new metagame with you all!

 

[abriel]

I’m excited to see this meta back. It’ll be nice to keep megas in the game, and a Dynamax-less gen 8 meta will be an interesting experiment. Super hyped to play it with you guys.

Kommo-o is looking scary for sure. 140 SpA with Pixilate Boomburst and Flamethrower is insane with the lack of quality steels and the Aggronite change, and Toxapex usage should be huge as a result. While Banettite has a lot of hype right now I’m thinking Latiasite should be good too, especially since powerful viable ground types like Mamoswine and Excadrill (assuming it’s already mega evolved of course) remain in the game to abuse pex. Offense right now should be defined by Kommo-o, Arcanine (Lucario maybe as well), Pex abusers, and any other Pinsirite flavor of the week.

Things should definitely get interesting when the old legends are released though. I agree with Andy that Terrakion upon release should be banned, perhaps even quickbanned; it’s already a gen 7 top threat, and most/all of its defensive counterplay is gone. Zekrom and Zeraora are both still in the game, and they both will appreciate the amount of Toxapex, Pinsirite, and possibly Corviknight in the meta. Especially since Zekrom has recovery, I could see it reprising it’s role from last gen on balance/stall to counteract flying types. It could be nice on offense too as a bulky setup mon, since it got Dragon Dance and scares off Toxapex. Zeraora will also fit nicely on offense due to Manec Mage being gone. NDM should also be nice as a bulky attacker and a fat steel that actually resists fairy. Of course, Lunala is still in the game, and we all know how good that was for a while last gen. I honestly don’t think it will be great though. Its Z-move is gone, and darks won’t get scared off by Zygarde or (assuming it’s banned) Terrakion anymore. Nasty Plot Gengar looks a lot better tbh.

gz to gman on council btw. Most wholesome user 2019 :)

 

[Sectonia]

So, as I found out recently, Strong Jaw boosts Fishious Rend. Thus....
Dracovish @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs / Ice Fang / Super Fang
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Pair this set up with webs support, probably from Shuckle, or even Araquanid, and watch as stuff crumbles. I have psychic fangs / ice fang because unfortunately, Dracovish does not get taunt, so they ended up being filler. That being said, it’s the best I could think of and find. If anyone has any better, I’ll like to see it.
e: stresh suggested super fang as a third option, seems neat.

 

[xavgb]

I'll write up a post with some sets later but I thought I should first clear a few things from the OP.

Firstly, I'd like to announce for anyone who somehow hasn't seen yet that Andyboy, Quantum Tesseract, and Gmansour20 are now on the council. Andy and QT both have plenty of experience working with the Mix and Mega council already, and they both are very active which will be valuable with how much there is to get done at the start of the gen. Gmansour is a new addition, who is well-known both for his love of MnM and his willingness to help others with the metagame, making him a great fit for this council. I look forward to working with this council as the gen 8 metagame develops!

Secondly, I'd like to talk about our current banlist. A few people have already asked about the inclusion of Zacian-C, and the simplest way to explain this addition is that the council doesn't see a way for Zacian-C to stay in the meta long-term. Its fantastic speed tier, along with a great typing, solid bulk, great coverage and access to SD means that it lacks reliable switchins in this dex. While there are some softer checks to Zacian that can be found, the fact that Zacian has enough tools to the point where it's easy to slap on offensive teams means that even with dedicated checks, dealing with it is still a problem. This combination of being easy to get in, hard to offensively check, and nearly impossible to counter would lead to it getting banned fairly quickly.

However, as this is still a completely new mon I'm not opposed to giving it some time to playtest, but it would still be looked at very soon because this new meta brings a lot that needs to be explored as well as various threats to watchlist.

The other major questionable member of our initial banlist is Pidgeotite. Pidgeotite was deemed to be an uncompetitive stone in Gen 7 due to a few factors leading to a string of broken abusers, and as a stone ban it arguably isn't affected heavily by dex cuts. However, Pidgeotite suffers from movepool changes, such as the slashed distribution of Zap Cannon. Other relevant factors such as sleep still have decent distribution, which makes Pidgeotite difficult to tier. The way I see it, there's a few potential options:

1) Keep Pidgeotite banned - This can be argued as there were a lot of sides to last gen's pidg ban that weren't affected by Gen 8. Sleep is still around, and the stone's boosts itself still make special attackers into powerhouses due to effectively unlocking inaccurate, higher BP moves such as Blizzard and Thunder along with the +65 SpA boost. Even if Pidgeotite is less uncompetitive now it could still easily be broken.

2) Free Pidgeotite now and then tier the mons appropriately - Since stone bans are generally reserved as a last resort for when broken abusers keep finding their way into the meta, it may not be appropriate to start with Pidgeotite banned in Gen 8. This does raise some tough questions about how to tier the meta going forward though, as we have cases like Gengar who are borderline broken with or without Pidgeotite. In Gen 7, these kinds of mons held up the stone ban for a long time, which may not be healthy considering that Gen 7 Pidgeotite was practically a broken stone for a long period of time and dodged a ban due to difficulties policy-wise.

3) Ban Pidgeotite for now but then revise it later - This option has a lot of merit as Pidgeotite could then be freed in a much more controlled meta. Trying to tier around the difficulties of Pidgeotite's existence in a completely new meta could definitely detract from other important tiering decisions, and this may also be exacerbated when PokeHome gives us new mons and maybe new movepool changes. With the idea of banning a borderline broken stone being so messy in the first place (especially one that could also be argued from a separate angle involving uncompetitiveness), it may not be worth testing Pidgeotite so early in the gen.

4) Free Pidgeotite but ban sleep - This one is mainly here because of the recent discussions about Sleep Clause elsewhere on Smogon, but i don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. A full sleep ban would tackle the viability of some potential Pidgeotite abusers, changing how mons like Gengar would operate with the stone. Without Hypnosis, Gengar's Pidgeotite set would fall in line with other variants of Gar such as Lucarionite, which would make it easier to tier. This would also help with the more "cheesy" abusers of the stone that would abuse sleep to get through checks.


All four of these options definitely have some positives and negatives to discuss, and outside of the options themselves it is also worth considering what's the most fun for the meta, as we would potentially be able to make another stone usable in terms of banlist but would then risk it impacting other stones from a viability perspective. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this whether that's here, in the discord, or on Showdown.

- Both Shadow Tag and Shuckle are free now, and are worth a lot of discussion due to their roles in Gen 7 being on the more extreme end of team support. Shadow Tag has been freed due to some of its important trapping targets being removed from this generation entirely, namely support Arceus and Blissey. However, with mons such as Toxapex shaping up to be meta staples, certain cores involving Gothitelle or Gothorita could be problematic. Generally trapping as a whole is still uncompetitive, so if these mons turn out to be decent (unlike Dugtrio last gen for example), then they will likely be removed. Shuckle is also free, but depending how the meta plays out this could be kicked out again, with our general options in the metagame seeming to be more offensive, and with less priority available to secure offense's matchup against webs.

Just as a side note to end this post, it will be interesting to see how weather works out in this metagame, with rain, sun, and veil all having their own quirks that could make them viable. I'm also looking forward to how our more "standard" spectrum of playstyles adapts to the new dex, I think there's some fun adaptation available for a lot of playstyles. Hopefully this will be playable soon so we can find all of this out.

 

[Vengeance417]

I haven't played much Mix and Mega in the past, but I do know that Lopunnite indirectly got a pretty significant buff this generation. Scrappy blocks Intimidate. So Pokemon that either use Manectite or Intimidate as a base form ability will find it rather difficult to de-buff Lopunnite users, I feel.

 

[astralydia]

Hey. As most of you know, my council pic changed due to Magearna being Dexit'd. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop bickering about a mon until the end of time. This beast plays so well I feel obliged to talk about its hit and run style and how it's the best thing ever.

Dragapult​

sets

Dragapult @ Manectite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Lucarionite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 132 Atk / 124 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump / Fire Blast / Thunder
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Cameruptite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- U-turn

Dragapult is looking to be a very solid mon this generation. Not only does it have a blistering Speed stat of 142 but it also has an expansive special movepool and decent bulk when factoring in its typing which allows it to be an extremely effective pivot that can double as speed control due to the sheer amount of Pokemon it can outspeed on paper.

Manectite:

Expecting this set to be the best of the lot. Whilst Magearna and other potential Manectite users have since phazed out due to their lack of recovery or nonexistance, Dragapult sets to fill the hole that they left with an entirely new set that takes a lot more from the previously used Mega Manectric (of course, in other tiers, not Mix and Mega). Sadly as of right now a lot of attackers happen to hit it super effectively, whether it be the influx of Weavile, the new Nasty Plot users, Arcanine and Kommo-o. The main difference is it can punish all of these except Arcanine with Will-O-Wisp, and that still means it has roles to do, let alone its ability to 1v1 Lucario and Wisp it so that it can't ever boost up to win. Clear Body also gives this an incredibly strong spot against Sticky Webs as it is one of the few Pokemon with the bulk and the speed after Sticky Webs to be able to deal with all the ridiculously powerful threats that can be exhibited.

Lucarionite:

Mandibuzz begone machine. The sheer damage output of Dragon Darts 2HKOs Mandibuzz after Stealth Rock along with the stronger U-turn that Lucarionite exhibits. This thing gets a lot more early game momentum than Manectite does because the majority of the threats that can handle it are either lacking the typing to resist Dragon Darts or are letting theirselves get punished by Will-O-Wisp or U-turn.

Diancite:

Likely the much better set in comparison to Cameruptite, Diancite has a few more defining features that the other Dragapults miss in that its Speed is so great it can afford a +SpA nature. This I would say makes it better as an all out attacker rather than something that aims to cripple its targets with Will-O-Wisp and annoy things. This SpA pressures Mandibuzz extremely well all in all and I don't think it really has many switches apart from that. Also an excellent choice for the current metagame and one that might make more impact than I think.

Cameruptite:

Bit more of a meme set but this still delivers in terms of power and although its Speed is cut it's still fairly fast compared to the metagame. The main niches this has over the other sets are a much stronger Shadow Ball and better bulk than the other two more offensive sets. If the metagame gets bulky I'm expecting this to be good because of how it demolishes ToxaMandi and other variants of defensive cores. But I don't think it will come to that.

Honestly I hope you all will have fun using this mon because I'm gonna have fun for sure. Definitely something I'd been looking for in mons for a while.

 

[Matleo]

Dragapult is a dangerous pokemon for most mega pokemon. Flamethrower and Steel wings perfect against steel and fairy...
weird no poison and ground coverage.

Hey. As most of you know, my council pic changed due to Magearna being Dexit'd. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop bickering about a mon until the end of time. This beast plays so well I feel obliged to talk about its hit and run style and how it's the best thing ever.

Dragapult​

sets

Dragapult @ Manectite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Lucarionite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 132 Atk / 124 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump / Fire Blast / Thunder
- U-turn

Dragapult @ Cameruptite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- U-turn

Dragapult is looking to be a very solid mon this generation. Not only does it have a blistering Speed stat of 142 but it also has an expansive special movepool and decent bulk when factoring in its typing which allows it to be an extremely effective pivot that can double as speed control due to the sheer amount of Pokemon it can outspeed on paper.

Manectite:

Expecting this set to be the best of the lot. Whilst Magearna and other potential Manectite users have since phazed out due to their lack of recovery or nonexistance, Dragapult sets to fill the hole that they left with an entirely new set that takes a lot more from the previously used Mega Manectric (of course, in other tiers, not Mix and Mega). Sadly as of right now a lot of attackers happen to hit it super effectively, whether it be the influx of Weavile, the new Nasty Plot users, Arcanine and Kommo-o. The main difference is it can punish all of these except Arcanine with Will-O-Wisp, and that still means it has roles to do, let alone its ability to 1v1 Lucario and Wisp it so that it can't ever boost up to win. Clear Body also gives this an incredibly strong spot against Sticky Webs as it is one of the few Pokemon with the bulk and the speed after Sticky Webs to be able to deal with all the ridiculously powerful threats that can be exhibited.

Lucarionite:

Mandibuzz begone machine. The sheer damage output of Dragon Darts 2HKOs Mandibuzz after Stealth Rock along with the stronger U-turn that Lucarionite exhibits. This thing gets a lot more early game momentum than Manectite does because the majority of the threats that can handle it are either lacking the typing to resist Dragon Darts or are letting theirselves get punished by Will-O-Wisp or U-turn.

Diancite:

Likely the much better set in comparison to Cameruptite, Diancite has a few more defining features that the other Dragapults miss in that its Speed is so great it can afford a +SpA nature. This I would say makes it better as an all out attacker rather than something that aims to cripple its targets with Will-O-Wisp and annoy things. This SpA pressures Mandibuzz extremely well all in all and I don't think it really has many switches apart from that. Also an excellent choice for the current metagame and one that might make more impact than I think.

Cameruptite:

Bit more of a meme set but this still delivers in terms of power and although its Speed is cut it's still fairly fast compared to the metagame. The main niches this has over the other sets are a much stronger Shadow Ball and better bulk than the other two more offensive sets. If the metagame gets bulky I'm expecting this to be good because of how it demolishes ToxaMandi and other variants of defensive cores. But I don't think it will come to that.

Honestly I hope you all will have fun using this mon because I'm gonna have fun for sure. Definitely something I'd been looking for in mons for a while.

Camerupt and Diance need to worry about water type hydro pump, dive, scald and brine.
Lucario can get checked easy with fire.

Manecite isnt fast, you could U-turn out, or have luck having Cursed Body and trying to Phantom force it out a little.

 

[xavgb]

Shadow Tag has been freed due to some of its important trapping targets being removed from this generation entirely, namely support Arceus and Blissey. However, with mons such as Toxapex shaping up to be meta staples, certain cores involving Gothitelle or Gothorita could be problematic. Generally trapping as a whole is still uncompetitive, so if these mons turn out to be decent (unlike Dugtrio last gen for example), then they will likely be removed.

Now that we've had a chance to see the new meta in action, the council has decided to quickban Gothitelle and Gothorita. Gothitelle is a very simple ban, due to the addition of Cosmic Power and Nasty Plot to its movepool, allowing it to trap mons and use them as setup fodder for a sweep. While Gothorita is not quite as broken as its evolution, it is just as uncompetitive. The lack of Cosmic Power makes it less effective at sweeping than Gothitelle, but in exchange the added bulk from Eviolite allows it to trap a whole slew of offensive pokemon in addition to still removing all of the passive pokemon like Toxapex that Gothitelle turns into a liability. It is the opinion of the council that if it is allowed to remain free, all of the issues that caused problems with Gothitelle and Gothorita in Gen 7 will continue hardly changed.

Tagging The Immortal

 

[xavgb]

The council has decided to quickban Zacian.

Zacian shares a lot of traits with its Crowned form, boasting the same important coverage options and a similar speed tier, however we decided to give it some time to playtest in the metagame due to its lack of Steel typing and a reliance on Life Orb in order to hit the same power level as the Crowned form. After a few days it is clear that Zacian's great speed tier and bulk in combination with its lack of consistent switch-ins that have use in the MnM metagame is still problematic, and leaves very few options to counteract its effect on games.

Tagging The Immortal again


Since we had a bunch of posts before the metagame was even playable, I'd also like to roll through my thoughts so far on most of the big mons that have been discussed here, now that I've been able to play games.

- I'd say this is the best mon in the tier right now. I've mostly been using metronome 3 attacks + Recover with the occasional team using the bulky set Chazm posted earlier. Eternatus is really good at taking advantage of passivity in the tier, using most defensive mons as an opportunity to Recover its health freely and just be an annoyance in general. Its perfect coverage along with useful moves like Sludge Bomb helps this too, as it is able to fish for poisons against some checks like Gastrodon. All-in-all this mon seems to have been optimized for the meta really well, being able to fit on nearly every type of build and put pressure on nearly every type of build as well. This can definitely get out of hand at times though, so me and the other council members will be keeping a close watch on it for now.

- This is our standout defensive Pokemon this generation, thanks to its brilliant typing, utility options like Defog and U-turn, and crazy bulk. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet here is its Sablenite set, which I think is also its best set right now, acting similarly to Mandibuzz last gen but with a typing that allows it to take on rockers like Kommo-O, as well as having a nice slow U-turn to pivot other mons in safely. With the lower power level of the dex this gen Corviknight could pose a problem in the future, but for now I think it's fine to deal with.

- Webs seems to have taken a hit in Gen 8, finding it more difficult to prep for the top threats. In particular, Ditto is huge in the meta right now, forcing webs to put a lot of effort into working around it. This can leave matchups open against threats like Arcanine, Excadrill, and Noivern, all of which are pretty hard to prep for in their own right when building webs.

- Gengar's been fairly unseen so far for me but it at least feels checkable right now, there still definitely aren't many switchins available but it lacks some initial power/bulk that could have made it a problem by now.

- This has been everywhere so far, and it does make sense as it's probably the second best defensive mon remaining in the tier. However, I've been finding that it can be exploitable at times as current breakers are typically tailored to hurt Corvi + Pex primarily, and even mons that are walled by Pex like Arcanine can put significant pressure on it using Wisp or Psychic Fangs. Additionally, using Toxapex can make your team more weak to Eternatus by letting it Recover or snowball with Metronome which really isn't ideal. Interestingly, Eternatus itself can also compete for the Pex slot and some of Pex's roles on balance teams too.

- Ditto got a huge buff this generation it seems, with more offensive playstyles struggling to beat it a lot more both due to the limited dex and the lack of Return/Frustration. It provides a particularly nice mon to complement Corviknight, with Corv's sheer bulk tending to draw setup users as an attempt to break it, as well as Corv's access to U-turn to pivot Ditto in on mons that are already set up.

- This mon's cool, some of the sets Chazm posted can struggle with Corv as well as stuff like Arcanine but Diancite is fast with a powerful move, U-turn, and not many switchins so it feels nice to play with.

- Putting these together because I think they're the leading Altarianite users for the meta right now. Kommo-O stands out as one of the few viable rockers, though it can be kinda stopped by Sab Corv so it's not as ideal as we previously thought. Arcanine is an incredibly convenient mon for what we have available, with Fairy/Fire being such a good typing and anything fast with Fairy attacks (or Fairy Espeed here) being v useful at taking out the big threats. Additionally it's much harder to wall without falling back on something like Pex due to the lack of Blue Orb. These two mons provide notable utility that other Altarianite options don't really match right now, so things like Alt Lucario are less relevant as a result.

 

[thdhted]

I'll follow up on some of the stuff I and others have been playing with, starting with this bad boy:


Tyranitar @ Pinsirite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def (252 Speed and Jolly are also viable)
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock / Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Body Slam / Facade / Thrash / Mega Kick
- Earthquake
or:

Tyranitar @ Metagrossite / Aerodactylite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Horsepower
- Dragon Dance / Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Crunch

That's right folks, Tyranitar is back and scarier than ever. With a bunch of its previous threats gone, Tyranitar is free to throw its big attack stat around without fear(or at least, not as much fear as it did previously), on top of being an extremely solid Stealth Rocker with solid coverage options. In my personal opinion, Pinsirite is the best set of the bunch due to the type change being favorable in a meta where Altarianite users like Arcanine are everywhere, as well as giving Ground Types pause when faced with an un-mega'd Tyranitar. Having a rocker that's bulky enough to get rocks up on the first go-round is always nice, but Pinsirite Tyranitar's solid STABs definitely make it a threat to most anything barring things like Corviknight. Aerodactylite/Metagrossite Tyranitar are both threatening in their own right, though they have to worry more about Altarianite users as well as things packing Fighting coverage. Both sets remain hard to switch into regardless.






Toxtricity @ Glalitite / Altarianite
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (Bulkier sets are also viable, though speed EVs can be adjusted to meet needs)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt
- Shift Gear / Volt Switch

Whooo boy, I'm surprised this thing hasn't been talked about yet. Despite extremely average defensive stats, Toxtricity boasts a beautiful Electric/Poison typing that gives it a truly excellent set of resistances, allowing it to take on a number of threats in the meta without breaking a sweat. Whether running Glalite Or Altarianite, Toxtricity manages to hit ridiculously hard with Boomburst, with the former being scarily good coverage, and the latter being an easily spammed STAB that takes a big bite out of even the sturdiest of resists. Glalite is arguably the best set as of right now, with a terrific set of STABs and a nasty Boomburst as coverage allowing it to check almost every relevant offensive or defensive threat in the meta as of right now, including the threatening Eternatus. Altarianite has its place as well though, giving Toxtricity a very spammable STAB as well as slightly more physical bulk to work with. The type change can also be very jarring for opponents expecting Glalite. Another thing that makes Toxtricity scary is its access to Shift Gear, allowing it to grab +2 speed and start throwing out powerful moves with a lot of freedom. The aforementioned coverage/STAB combo means that Toxtricity becomes very difficult to stop for a worn down team, making Shift Gear Toxtricity one hell of a cleaner in late game. Definitely worth watching out for.





Dracozolt @ Metagrossite
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- High Horsepower
- Outrage
- Taunt


In a similar vein to Dracovish, this mon hits extremely hard with Bolt Beak on almost any non-immune switchin or anything slower than it. having slightly more attack makes it a bit more attractive for general use as well, meaning it can more often get KOs. Decently fast, as well as having a decent typing for the meta barring the ground type weakness alongside fairly good bulk post-mega, Dracozolt will certainly find a place in the meta as a strong breaker for teams that struggle against slower archetypes.

 

[thepoolnerd]

Whipped together a random team once I saw the mode was up, so stuff is pretty unrefined, but my starting set is looking like

Dragapult @ Alakazite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Flamethrower
-Draco Meteor
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt

Special sweeper, not much to say, as a pseudo its coverage is solid and its stats are amazing. Tossed on Alakasite b/c I didn't really wanna think of an ability that truly benefitted it, I more wanted the raw SpA & Speed buffs

Grimmsnarl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Leech Life
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
-Fake Out

Didn't think this was going to be super high performing at first, but stuff seems just slow enough this gen that it's been solid, may start to lose usefulness as i climb ladder. Aerodactylite gives a real big buff to this set's priority moves as they both make contact, and most mons I've found that are weak to play rough & leech life have been hit pretty hard by them

Coalossal @ Aggronite
Ability: Steam Engine
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Stone Edge
-EQ
-Rapid Spin

Used as a rocks setter/ hazard clearer, aggronite helps bunp coalossal's defenses while removing both of its 4x weaknesses and keeping its STAB for stone edge

Toxitricity @Ampharosite
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252+ SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Sludge Bomb
-Volt Switch
-Hex

Ampharosite is used here to remove that 4x ground weakness, & while you lose STAB on sludge bomb you get mold breaker to deal w/ any stray volt absorb dracozolts and a huge bump to special attack.

Toxapex @ Sablenite
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
-Toxic
-Recover
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Meant to just toxic stall enemies, sablenite has bern really solid for lower tier play, but I should probably switch to banettite as I move up on ladder.

Barraskewda @ Lopunnite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Liquidation
-Aqua Jet
-Psychic Fangs

Honestly don't entirely remember what this is for, I think I just saw this thing had close combat & i blacked out & woke up with this set

In related news, I miss my speed boost into pixilate uproar yanmega :'(

EDIT: added description of purposes for each mon

 

[LdlLdlLdl]

Trick Room might be an interesting strategy in this gen. Here are some mons I looked into:

Setters:

Musharna @ Sablenite
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Moonlight
- Healing Wish/Thunder Wave
- Psychic

Stats: 116/65/135/127/145/1
Bulk is pretty good when looking at Trick Room users as there isn't a lot of variety unfortunately. Musharna does get access to Moonlight where the 8 pp should not be too much of an issue with another TR setter.

Aromatisse @ Sablenite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Encore/Wish

Stats: 101/82/122/119/139/1
Although less bulky than Musharna, Fairy makes for a better defensive and offensive typing than Psychic when considering other TR setters, along with Aromatherapy being of use as this gen lacks solid Heal Bell/Aromatherapy users.

Gourgeist-Super @ Aggronite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Will-O-Wisp/Foul Play
- Destiny Bond/Shadow Sneak
- Pain Split

Stats: 65/120/172/58/95/84
Aggronite makes for a better choice than Sablenite here as mono Ghost is much better defensively than Ghost/Grass. Unfortunately, there aren't many strong physical Ghost moves for Gourgeist to use with the 120 base attack. There is also a greater risk here in death to special threats due to the low HP and SpD stats. Luckily, Pain Split does find some use here.

Runerigus @ Aggronite
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock

Stats: 58/125/195/50/125/30
Runerigus is certainly less viable than the previous three as it lacks recovery and has a low HP stat. The only reason why you might use this over the other 3 would be for Stealth Rock.

Hatterene (F) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room/Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Dark Pulse

Stats: 57/125/113/161/103/51
Hatterene can potentially serve as a TR setter, likely a lead, as the offensive stats are definitely good enough to use right off the bat. Personally, I prefer to use Calm Mind over Trick Room and use different setters, but if you'd like an offensive setter this might be the best choice.

Offensive Mons:

Chandelure @ Cameruptite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Dark Pulse

Stats: 60/75/120/185/120/60
Diancite Chandelure has become somewhat popular in this generation due to the high speed stat and high special attack. Cameruptite takes this concept to Trick Room with more damage and obviously lower speed. These 4 moves all have secondary effects and provide great general coverage.

Tyranitar @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Stats: 100/214/120/95/110/61
So this is kind of a meme. But at the same time it's kind of not. 214 base attack (579 raw) is definitely noteworthy. Lucarionite might be a better choice but I'm running that with Hatterene on my team (who can't use Cameruptite cause of Chandelure....you get the idea...maybe I should just take this off my team...)

Please feel free to suggest edits or criticize any of these mons, obviously they won't all be optimized but this was from a first glance.

 

[Gimlaf]

Ooh, Trick Room. Since I am currently using a Trick Room team myself, I might as well write something about it. But first:

Chandelure @ Cameruptite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Dark Pulse

Stats: 60/75/120/185/120/60
Diancite Chandelure has become somewhat popular in this generation due to the high speed stat and high special attack. Cameruptite takes this concept to Trick Room with more damage and obviously lower speed. These 4 moves all have secondary effects and provide great general coverage.

Is there any reason for running Dark Pulse here? The only 'mon I can think of which is hit hard by Dark Pulse but not Shadow Ball is Indeedee. And even then, STAB Fire Blast sill does slightly more if you're willing to risk the miss.
If you are set on having more coverage, then Psychic might be better (actually, Psychic does well against Eternatus, now that I think about it. Huh....). Alternatively you could just slap Trick Room on it to have another setter, and a pretty threatening one at that.

Anyways, here's the team I'm using. I focused on having Trick Room setters with offensive presence instead of recovery. That's also why I have four of them, since they generally don't last too long.

Setters:

Runerigus @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- Trick Room

Stats: 58/125/175/60/135/30
Probably the least offensive among my Trick Room setters, it's there for the Mold Breaker Rocks. However, it still hits decently hard with Earthquake. Memento can be used on your final turn of Trick Room, allowing your switch in to safely set up another one.
Keep in mind that upon mega evolving you trade your Ghost Type for a Dark one. And keep in mind that you have Wandering Spirit before mega evolving. Suppressing things like Scappy or -ates can be of value, especially with other Ghosts (in this team's case Chandelure) in the back.


Reuniclus @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- Trick Room

Stats: 110/75/125/145/135/1
An actually offensive Trick Room setter, with the bulk to set up against a lot of things (as well as against Taunt, unless it's a Mold Breaker). Still, 145 SpA, no offensive ability and only one STAB make it easier to wall than other members of this team. I mean, I recently gave this thing Thunder just to potentially hit Corviknight (which is quite the pain for this team).


Mr. Rime @ Abomasite
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room

Stats: 80/125/105/150/120/40
Yeah, that's an Abomasite. But seriously, probably one of the better choices on Mr. Rime for a TR team: Bulk is alright (though being an Ice type really hurts there), the speed drop is a good thing and these Blizzards are serious business.


Chandelure @ Cameruptite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick Room

Stats: 60/75/120/185/120/60
What else can I say than "This guy hits hard." Cameruptite Chandelure is pretty good, and it can set up its own Trick Room to go sweeping. Just be mindful of the low base HP and the Stealth Rock weakness, in case you want to set up with it. Which is where Runegrigus' aforementioned Memento and/or Wandering Spirit shenanigans come into play.
I'm torn between Energy Ball and Psychic right now. Psychic does hit Eternatus hard enough to prevent PP stalling alongside Recover spam. Though losing Energy Ball means Water types have an easier time against it. (As well as Venusaurite Hippowdon or memes like that)



Attackers:

Copperajah @ Charizardite X
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Outrage
- High Horsepower
- Power Whip

Stats: 122/176/102/101/69/30
Now this is a Steel/Dragon! Between 176 Base Attack and Tough Claws boosting all 4 Moves, it does hit a lot of things...but it doesn't hit Corviknight. Also, going for Outrage is risky, especially since Altarianite (and Audinite) exists.
I feel the elephant is heavy enough to make Heavy Slam worthwhile, though you can go for Iron Head for more consistency.


Steelix @ Lopunnite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Autotomize
- Taunt

Stats: 75/145/210/55/65/60
And then there's this. I tried to make use of Body Press on something and came up with what's likely a meme.
It's basically a Dobule Dance set, but with only 1 attacking move to make use of. However, this move comes from a 210 base attacking stat. Taunt is mostly to prevent set up wars and being taunted itself, and there aren't really any other moves it could use...I think. Lopunnite is pretty much mandatory to actually hit Ghosts. It also grants STAB on Body Press, which is great.
This set is generally slow enough to be slower than offense (thus making use of Trick Room), yet it can reach 480 Speed after a single Autotomize if you feel like sweeping without TR. Basically, bring this in against a physical attacker, set up Iron Defense if there are at least 2 turns of TR remaining or set up Autotomize otherwise. With Iron Defense up you also have an easier time setting up further, as long as there's no special attacker on the opposing side. Obviously, special attackers which can take a hit are a problem for this set. Eternatus for example does a really good job at countering it, between its bulk, Fighting resistance and access to Flamethrower.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Ooh, Trick Room. Since I am currently using a Trick Room team myself, I might as well write something about it. But first:


Is there any reason for running Dark Pulse here? The only 'mon I can think of which is hit hard by Dark Pulse but not Shadow Ball is Indeedee. And even then, STAB Fire Blast sill does slightly more if you're willing to risk the miss.
If you are set on having more coverage, then Psychic might be better (actually, Psychic does well against Eternatus, now that I think about it. Huh....). Alternatively you could just slap Trick Room on it to have another setter, and a pretty threatening one at that.

Anyways, here's the team I'm using. I focused on having Trick Room setters with offensive presence instead of recovery. That's also why I have four of them, since they generally don't last too long.

Setters:

Runerigus @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- Trick Room

Stats: 58/125/175/60/135/30
Probably the least offensive among my Trick Room setters, it's there for the Mold Breaker Rocks. However, it still hits decently hard with Earthquake. Memento can be used on your final turn of Trick Room, allowing your switch in to safely set up another one.
Keep in mind that upon mega evolving you trade your Ghost Type for a Dark one. And keep in mind that you have Wandering Spirit before mega evolving. Suppressing things like Scappy or -ates can be of value, especially with other Ghosts (in this team's case Chandelure) in the back.


Reuniclus @ Sablenite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- Trick Room

Stats: 110/75/125/145/135/1
An actually offensive Trick Room setter, with the bulk to set up against a lot of things (as well as against Taunt, unless it's a Mold Breaker). Still, 145 SpA, no offensive ability and only one STAB make it easier to wall than other members of this team. I mean, I recently gave this thing Thunder just to potentially hit Corviknight (which is quite the pain for this team).


Mr. Rime @ Abomasite
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blizzard
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room

Stats: 80/125/105/150/120/40
Yeah, that's an Abomasite. But seriously, probably one of the better choices on Mr. Rime for a TR team: Bulk is alright (though being an Ice type really hurts there), the speed drop is a good thing and these Blizzards are serious business.


Chandelure @ Cameruptite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick Room

Stats: 60/75/120/185/120/60
What else can I say than "This guy hits hard." Cameruptite Chandelure is pretty good, and it can set up its own Trick Room to go sweeping. Just be mindful of the low base HP and the Stealth Rock weakness, in case you want to set up with it. Which is where Runegrigus' aforementioned Memento and/or Wandering Spirit shenanigans come into play.
I'm torn between Energy Ball and Psychic right now. Psychic does hit Eternatus hard enough to prevent PP stalling alongside Recover spam. Though losing Energy Ball means Water types have an easier time against it. (As well as Venusaurite Hippowdon or memes like that)



Attackers:

Copperajah @ Charizardite X
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Outrage
- High Horsepower
- Power Whip

Stats: 122/176/102/101/69/30
Now this is a Steel/Dragon! Between 176 Base Attack and Tough Claws boosting all 4 Moves, it does hit a lot of things...but it doesn't hit Corviknight. Also, going for Outrage is risky, especially since Altarianite (and Audinite) exists.
I feel the elephant is heavy enough to make Heavy Slam worthwhile, though you can go for Iron Head for more consistency.


Steelix @ Lopunnite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Autotomize
- Taunt

Stats: 75/145/210/55/65/60
And then there's this. I tried to make use of Body Press on something and came up with what's likely a meme.
It's basically a Dobule Dance set, but with only 1 attacking move to make use of. However, this move comes from a 210 base attacking stat. Taunt is mostly to prevent set up wars and being taunted itself, and there aren't really any other moves it could use...I think. Lopunnite is pretty much mandatory to actually hit Ghosts. It also grants STAB on Body Press, which is great.
This set is generally slow enough to be slower than offense (thus making use of Trick Room), yet it can reach 480 Speed after a single Autotomize if you feel like sweeping without TR. Basically, bring this in against a physical attacker, set up Iron Defense if there are at least 2 turns of TR remaining or set up Autotomize otherwise. With Iron Defense up you also have an easier time setting up further, as long as there's no special attacker on the opposing side. Obviously, special attackers which can take a hit are a problem for this set. Eternatus for example does a really good job at countering it, between its bulk, Fighting resistance and access to Flamethrower.

I'd recommend this instead of Lopunnite Steelix since speed steelix is nothing more than a meme.

Hide

Steelix @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Gyro Ball / Iron Head
- Body Press
- Iron Defense /
- Taunt

Keeps the same premise but adds Gyro Ball so it doesn't get completely stuffed by Eternatus.


More entertaining things after some testing:

Stats: 115/170/150/65/75/60

Rhyperior @ Pinsirite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

A strong stopgap and surprise mon against a lot of offense. Lots of teams' answers to Rock/Ground are to immediately click EQ, Grass moves or Iron Head which tends to go poorly. Excadrill in particular doesn't like Rhyperior's existence as a tanky Lando replacement. Standard Salamencite Noivern cannot OHKO Rhyperior thanks to the beefy 115 base HP and solid HP investment which is nice

Stats: 130/105/80/150/95/65

Vaporeon @ Altarianite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect

Fatmon that bypasses subs with Hyper Voice, harasses standard Arcanine and doesn't care too hard for Eternatus. Wish passing isn't really expected since we basically don't have our normal wishpasser in Blissey, but Vaporeon is the current highest HP wishpasser (next ones in order are Aromatisse, Clefable, Umbreon, Sylveon, and Togekiss), and is the only truly viable one above 100 HP. Altarianite also provides a solid anti-dragon check, although it does take up the Altarianite slot. If I had to recommend another stone, swap out Voice for Toxic and grab Audinite.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Stats: 115/170/150/65/75/60 [Ground/Flying]; Aerilate

Rhyperior @ Pinsirite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch / Stealth Rock / Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

He now deserves his own post since hes actually incredible and I love him.

Pinsirite Rhyperior is just fast enough to harass certain defensive mons (faster than 70 base speed mons with current investment) with a strong typing to irritate common Pex variants, Eternatus, Excadrill and more. Swapping from Ground/Rock to Ground/Flying turns Rhyperior into an actually solid mon with strong as hell stats and a wide movepool from the glory days of gen 1 which can annoy EQ-reliant mons or ones who expect to prey on Grass-weak and Fighting-weak mons. Also its rhyperior cmon now its cool

Even when burned, Rhyperior manages to scrape by with Swords Dance to at least attempt to damage walls and Body Slam to spread paralysis. Or you can just run Facade to not care at all and even deal damage while burned. Stealth Rock leads have less to worry about but also contribute less. And lose to defog.

You do hard lose to literally every Corviknight build in existence, but that's why we run electric and fire types, right? Also Dragon Tail can harass Corviknight builds that spam Bulk Up. You also might struggle against extreme fat like Sablenite or Slowbronite (do people even run that?) Corsola-Galar or other Flying-types that don't have a weakness to flying themselves. Levitate also sucks, so Rotom forms with Latiasite or other Electrics can be annoying. Manectite/Altarianite Arcanine is happy to burn Rhyperior but doesn't like getting slapped by a big EQ.


Banettite Toxapex calcs:

Hide

252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 224-266 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 304-360 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Toxapex Liquidation vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 288-340 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Eternatus Calcs:

Hide

252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 458-542 (94.6 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 458-542 (108.7 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Eternatus Draco Meteor vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 292-345 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Eternatus Draco Meteor vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 321-378 (77.5 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Eternatus Dragon Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 192-226 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Et cetera bulk calcs becuase yay

Hide

Standard (?) SpDef Sablenite Corviknight
+4 4 Atk Corviknight Iron Head vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 356-420 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Altarianite Toxtricity
252 SpA Pixilate Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 394-465 (95.1 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Altarianite Kommo
252 SpA Pixilate Kommo-o Boomburst vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 367-433 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (you lose to +1 lol)

Lucarionite Excadrill
252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 150-178 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Lucarionite Dragapult
252 Atk Adaptability Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 180-212 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- approx. 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (assumes rocks are up after Rhyp mega evolves, chance is lower if rock/ground)
4 SpA Adaptability Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 146-174 (35.2 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 522-614 (126 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO yeah what did you expect.

 

[Redflix]

Hello! I liked this metagame a lot and laddered it and got pretty high on the ladder and would want to share the teams i used


(click on image for the team)
A stall around shedinja with heavy duty boots and with the basic toxapex + corviknight + ditto core. Wobuffet is to trap annoying set up spammers that can threaten the team. After several errors, sable hippo was the last mon to check mons like rhyperior,electric types and as a stealth rock setter.
Eternatus(especially the one carrying substitute) is pretty hard to deal with and needs to be played carefully around so that it doesn't sweep the team
Some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1029730287
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1029872560



Build around weavile considering how dragon types are being majorly used in the ladder. Paired it up with dugtrio(took the set from the previous thread) to trap toxapex and other mons that check weavile. I'm a fan of sub metronome recover eternatus since it can easily cause some serious damage to the opponents team with dragon pulse and flamethrower/sludge wave. The rest is the defensive core of ditto + toxapex + corviknight.
Some replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1029807603
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1029795335

One really fun set that i think can be really good
Corviknight @ Banettite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / Atk / 196 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Once u get rid of the opposing corviknight, this set can sweep teams. It works similarly to the ou set however now with prankster taunt, toxapex is much easier to deal with. 196 spd to survive 2 fire blast from lucarionite dragapult.However, sablenite mons such as galar corsola/scald burns can still threaten it so u gotta watch out for them.

 

[stantheman132]

Here's a mon i feel like would be really viable in this gen for mix and mega

Dragapult @ Scizorite
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Darts
-Steel Wing/Psychic Fangs
-U Turn/Acrobatics


Due to Scizorite giving Dragapult the ability technician, it strengthens the strongest physical dragon move in the game by a lot. After one dragon dance this mon could be used to sweep, and if your in a tough situation you can either use a strengthened acrobatics or you can use u turn to get out of there. Dragon darts normally having a bp of 50 for each shot means that it will become 75 bp for each shot, which is extremely threatening. Steel wing can be used to counter fairies, which are a relatively large problem for Dragapult. Despite their being some counters for this, I like to run it along with a aggronite haxorus due to the defense that it provides and the coverage that haxorus has. I also run it with either adamant or jolly nature and 252 attack and speed with 4 defense. If you have any revisions you would make to this set please speak up!

 

[Sectonia]

So I think enough time has passed, and I'm very interested in how Arcanine has turned out for the meta. I think Arcanine is the staple Extreme Speed user right now, mostly because it has decent sustainability. Morning Sun, I find, is a great move on Arcanine.


Arcanine @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Psychic Fangs / Will-O-Wisp / Howl
- Morning Sun
- Extreme Speed

thdhted introduced me to this set, but I believe others are running this if they're running Altarianite Arcanine. Morning Sun, I think, is a near indispensable option for Arcanine. I think that Morning Sun is a guaranteed slot on Arcanine, other than Extreme Speed. It's part of what makes it so good to use, in my opinion. The sustainability of it is excellent, and it can get around Corviknight wearing it down with Morning Sun, and then potentially punish them.


Arcanine @ Pinsirite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Howl

That being said, Pinsirite Arcanine is a good set too, in my opinion. It allows you to not have to run Psychic Fangs to get around Toxapex or Eternatus, and it lets you safely run Howl more often too. I've seen other options over Howl, but I'm not a big fan of those, especially when I think Howl is the best use of the last slot. However, if you want, options like Double Edge, Psychic Fangs, and more are usable. I've considered Close Combat on the last slot myself, to deal with Rock-types, but they haven't been a major issue yet. Morning Sun isn't as mandatory on this set, but I like to have it for sustainability. It's a great part of why Arcanine is the best Extreme Speed user, right now, in my opinion. Lucario, the next best Extreme Speed user, is too frail, and it's rather prone to be revenged by Ditto. Arcanine has cemented itself as a really great pokemon in Mix and Mega, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it around the A ranks for the VR.

 

[lolgod3]

Dumping Teams (May be viable)
Barraskewda @ Altarianite
Ability: Propeller Tail
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Drill Run
- Psychic Fangs
- Facade

I've tested this meme a lot and it actually is working
Forgot to save replays though

Pyukumuku @ Sablenite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Spite
- Toxic
- Recover

Dragapult @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Psychic Fangs
- Phantom Force
- U-turn

Mew @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Psychic Fangs
- Swords Dance

Never had a chance of testing those 3 teams. 180 attack? Yikes. 202 speed? Double Yikes! 180 defences AND magic bounce? Triple Yikes

Eternatus @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Recover
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave

^^^ better than Zacian, and also, isn't this a UBERS metagame? Why is Zacian banned? Banning the crowned form is understandable, but the regular form? It's just normal zamazenta with a better moveset, better ability, and fairy typing.

calcs:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 377-445 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Eternatus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 429-507 (132 - 156%) -- guaranteed OHKO

EDIT: Also, Crowned Zamazenta exists and isn't banned.

 

[xavgb]

Coming through with a couple more tiering things:

We have decided to re-ban Moody. Moody was freed due to no longer boosting evasion this gen, however it still remains a skill-less strategy which is capable of taking most of the meta down based on luck with boosts. This replay serves as an example of how Glalie can break through attempted checks with the right boosts.

Tagging The Immortal

Secondly, we're suspecting Eternatus. Details can be found here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mix-and-mega-suspect-1-eternatus.3658002/