Suspect Mix and Mega Suspect 14: Walking Wake

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The Mix and Mega Council has decided to suspect test Walking Wake!

walking-wake.jpg


Walking Wake has been a solid pokemon ever since it was first introduced, and it's obvious why. Dragon / Water is a potent offensive STAB combination, and Walking Wake has all the tools it needs to make the most of that; its sky high special attack makes it extremely difficult to switch into, while its solid speed allows Lucarionite sets to outrun most defensive answers and Diancite sets to outspeed almost anything. And even if the opponent does have answers to Wake, it can make use of options like Scald and Flip Turn to chip down or cripple switch-ins, helping keep it from being dead weight even in tough matchups.

However, not all is well for Walking Wake. Altarianite Dragonite is extremely annoying for it, as it resists Water-type attacks, is immune to Draco Meteor, and can easily pick off Wake with a super effective Extreme Speed. Clodsire covers the other half of Wake's STAB moves, easily stealing momentum on Hydro Pump and Flip Turn and making use of its solid bulk to sponge Draco Meteors. Nor are these two alone; there are a number of Pokemon that can give Wake real trouble, from bulky waters like Milotic to Sablenite Magearna to other Pixilate users like Regieleki.

Nevertheless, there has been some growing concern that these answers are simply not enough. As such, this decision will go up for a suspect test.

Requirements:
NOTE: THIS TEST WILL BE USING THE NEW SUSPECT PROCESS!

Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in Mix and Mega before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played Mix and Mega before the test, full stop.)
At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact KaenSoul, Giagantic, Dhelmise or a member of staff.
If you have any questions about this process, feel free to PM me or post here!

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2850 (with a B value of 5). The deadline for getting requirements will be Tuesday, April 22nd.

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have achieved requirements and linked your account

A super-majority of 60% ban votes is required to restrict Walking Wake from Mega Evolving in Mix and Mega

TL;DR:
- Walking Wake is permitted on the suspect Ladder
- The COIL value is 2850
- You must ladder on a newly-created alt of any name
- You must link your suspect alt with your smogon account using /linksmogon
- The suspect test will run conclude at <t:1745380740:F>
 
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Personally leaning towards dnb. It is a strong option for sure, but pixispeed, other priority, and hazards just shut it down too much imo. It has pretty bad longevity issues and can't make progress as well into all cores because knock is pretty useless here. Maybe I rely too much on dnite to check it but even when I build fat throwing on a water fairy for it and urshifu never felt too big of an ask, and clod being a nice check pre-mega is another plus. Idk mon is a strong option but don't think its ban worthy.

Something cool I ran into was rain + psysurge for it, that was truly scary, but even then it was because I misplayed my dnite, and I still won bc hydro is a bad move lol.
 
Another day, another Wake suspect completed.
Ran it back with the same team I used previously :magearna: :raging bolt: :entei: :kingambit: :swampert: :arceus-ghost:

I think Wake here is a bit of a bitch, and even if I personally haven't had enormous trouble with it do find it quite restricting to account for, especially if I'm considering something that can handle it long-term. The only realistic answers I've found to that are Bulky Altnite and Audinite Milotic, and while they both do the job quite well I 1. don't wanna have to slot those two specifically onto every balance team I build and 2. they still have their issues (Altnite is susceptible to Scald burns + you have to get it mega'd first, which can be a hassle sometimes, while Milotic is fine, but it only really reliably checks two things, being Wake & Urshifu-R, and without Sable you're awfully weak to status moves) not to mention both simply get pivoted on by Flip Turn. On the other hand, offensive counterplay is pretty sparce, with PixiSpeed being essentially on every real team, Lucarionite sets being somewhat slow & Diancite sets basically dying if you sneeze on it on top of its lack of longevity versus entry hazards.

Nonetheless, I don't think it's as problematic as some claim, but I do find its presence rather annoying and think the negatives here outweigh the positives, so will most likely vote Ban unless someone writes the most beautiful post explaining why it shouldn't be.
 
Used a couple teams, none of them are as good as they once were and I haven't built for a few months now. Nevertheless, teamdump
:dragonite::regieleki::pecharunt::walking-wake::great-tusk::mandibuzz:
:iron-boulder::lunala::mandibuzz::regieleki::milotic::arceus-ground:
:basculegion::pelipper::corviknight::raging-bolt::arceus-ground::regieleki:
:walking-wake::great-tusk::magearna::braviary-hisui::regieleki::zamazenta:

yes i like regieleki, how could you tell?

As for my stance on Wake, well lets just say I REALLY dislike it when a Pokemon forces super specific Pokemon onto teams to be reliably answered. And in Wake's case, its Audinite Milotic and Water Absorb Clodsire. Neither of these are amazing. Altarianite Dragonite is not an answer, do not delude yourself into thinking it is because you will just get blown up by hazards and/or Scald burns. Offensive counterplay is also really not amazing, with the list of Pokemon being TC/RSword Zamazenta and PixiSpeed being the only real ones. In-game, you can limit its output somewhat decently by just not letting it on the field, but that only gets you so far. While there is decent Stone disparity as Lucarionite isn't amazingly fast and Diancite is paper-thin, this doesn't matter too much as Wake forces so much progress from just its damage output alone, and it's really easy to do this - there is a reason I try to put this on every offense and balance build I make. It shouldn't be a surprise, then, when I say I am voting ban.
 
Screenshot 2025-04-08 175136.png

yea so the rain + psysurge betticus mentioned,, that was ✨yours truly✨:3
anyway here are my thoughts
Screenshot 2025-04-08 185310.png

Walking Wake is undoubtedly one of the premiere raw wallbreakers of the tier. No setup, no hassle, just get in and destroy. An offense stat of legendaries like Deoxys, Kyogre, Groudon, with the incredibly powerful Adaptability. To top it all off is the base power of its adapt-boosted stabs, 110 in hydro and 130 in draco, which puts the cherry onto for this fearsome force.
Walking Wakes biggest drawback is its speed, namely against the Altarispeeders. However, no Espeeder wants to switch into this thing - not even Dragonite whom risks a possible scald burn, gets thrashed by Draco in premega, and can't keep up well when hazards are within the equation. The premiere special wall of the tier in Magearna can only tank so many Hydro Pumps throughout the course of a game.
Not even the dedicated Wake counter of Audinite Milotic wants to stay in. More often than not, it will opt to flip turn into something that can deal with Wake offensively, rather staying in as the Wake flip turns itself into something that can exploit its passivity, such as Spikes Magearna, Garganacl, Eternatus, Pecharunt, etc. Anything that comes in against Milotic that can threaten to damage Milotic too much forces it out, simply because Wake is such a powerful force that teams can't afford to have their only answer to it be in low health.

But you all know this, and none of what i'm saying is anything new
But to use Walking Wakes true potential... you gotta-
Make it RAIN
:urshifu-rapid-strike::basculegion::walking-wake::pelipper::indeedee::iron-treads:
wow kira actually posting her team for the first time wowowowow
So as we know, Wake is completely forced out by Altarinate Espeeders. But what if we got a little weird with it :3
All of the sudden, every priority attacker in the tier becomes susceptible to Walking Wakes teambuilder-defining speed tier. Even Regieleki is only left with the options of:
  • 252+ Atk Altarianite Pixilate Regieleki Rapid Spin vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucarionite Walking Wake: 212-252 (62.5 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and getting waterboarded immediantly afterward
  • Voltswitch and get caught by Treads, who forces Eleki out and voltswitches itself back into a response (note, if its not a Milotic, Wake can just stay in and hit whatever wants to come in next with the force of an industrial power washer)
  • istockphoto-955124060-612x612.jpg
Heres a few funny calcs for yall lol
252 SpA Lucarionite Adaptability Walking Wake Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Latiasite Magearna in Rain: 236-278 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Lucarionite Adaptability Walking Wake Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus in Rain: 256-302 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Lucarionite Adaptability Walking Wake Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Latiasite Pecharunt in Rain: 374-440 (98.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

TO CONCLUDE
Its not like Wake is impossible to deal with, but it is very difficult to. Flip turn alone makes endless mindgames with threatening and momentum. Outside of Milo, Vaporeon, and maybe Waterceus, nothing can truly switch into it. And when it flips to something that CAN remove these bulky waters, and Wake gets off scott free, at that point Wake makes the game... suffocating.
While Wake is a big part of two of my three main teams, and this would probably not suit my own interest, i'm less concerned over myself than the health of this metagame. Wake is just absurd. I'll be voting Ban.
 
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Just completed a 20-0 suspect run without needing wake, so it's definitely not broken.

More seriously, I got a good bit of mileage out of the fact that Slither Wing's team gets really bullied by garg, so don't read toomuch into it. Anyway, of all the council I think I'm the most pro wake, but even then I'm seriously considering the merits of it going. I think in a sense it's the least broken broken we've ever suspected; unlike everyone else, Wake has actual, 100% reliable answers without going into niche pokemon, and also if you do for whatever reason want to go into niche pokemon you can bully it even harder. I don't advice building like Chessking and running a wellspring fairy type, but if you wanted something to answer Lugia as reliably as Aud Milo does viably you'd have to look into similar shitmons.

The counterargument is that Wake beats everything else. It's probably the best momentum farmer bar none, because you chase out guys like pecharunt at absurdly high hp % and then Flip Turn out to your other guys. They can still punish it with the right calls, but especially if you're already winning the hazard war and they don't have a water immunity it can really be a rich get richer scenario. I don't know if a mon that only wins when you're winning or outplay is broken, but if any mon that did it was it would be wake.
 
I'm of the opinion Wake isn't broken. I can't see a frail Dragon-type ever be broken in a tier where Fairy-type Extreme Speed is used on so many mons. It does have some insane offensive benefits( one of it being that it needs no setup and can just start blasting opposing mons with high power stabs) but i think it is managable. Due to rng not rlly being on my side i did have to play a bit more games than i would like, and in none of the games did Walking Wake prove too much. It is definetely an extremely good and threathening offensive weapon, but i believe it has some cemented answers that will always stop it from becoming an unstoppable force. I am, however, a bit torn on what to vote, as i see both sides of the coin equally, therefore i can also understand how one would think Wake to be too much for the tier and how it can sometimes cheese its way out of certain situations, like burning an opposing Dragonite via Scald. As of now i'm like 50/50 on voting ban or dnb.
 
Walking Wake should be banned

Get him out of this tier. I'm tired of people pretending slapping a Dnite on the team is a solution cuz it's really not. Clodsire is a massive momentum sink and something like Audinite Milotic is hyperspecific. People say spdef mage is an answer but that's a lie, you get 2HKOed by Hydro Pump and pressured by Flip Turn or hell even Scald--not to mention most of them don't even run Fleur Cannon. This guy massively restricts teambuilding (for example I'd really like to run an Eleki as removal without worrying about slotting a Clod or a Milo) and takes advantage of HStack way too well; if we want the metagame to progress we need to ease the building/playing strain--and the most effective way to do so would be to kick Walking Ban out of the tier and move forward from there.
 
most stress free reqs of my life. used these teams (second one is bad don't use it)
:arceus-poison:-:walking wake:-:tinkaton:-:shaymin-sky:-:entei:-:great tusk:
:milotic:-:great tusk:-:ceruledge:-:regieleki:-:walking wake:-:magearna:
:sandy shocks:-:magearna:-:swampert:-:garganacl:-:great tusk:-:entei:
:lunala:-:sandy shocks:-:great tusk:-:kingambit:-:walking wake:-:entei:
personally i think walking wake is a really solid mon. it does have answers:milotic: is a solid defensive counter that also functions as a slow pivot for the rest of your team. when i was laddering walking wake felt completely useless against magearna and clodsire teams or magearna and milotic. i also think that with walking wake gone garganacl will be even more of a bitch to deal with. garg and ceruledge should've been sussed first imo. walking wake while a good pairing with hazards, also is very hazard vulnerable. all in all i think i'm gonna vote Do Not Ban. also #freekoraidon
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edit:
this is the other team i used
:scream tail:-:arceus-ground:-:regieleki:-:raging bolt:-:lunala:-:samurott-hisui:
didn't post on this bc i gave it to pannu to use in open
 
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Thought I'd get some discussions going since nothing is happening really. Wake really needs to go tbqh and I want to drive the point home of how limiting it is.

I'm of the opinion Wake isn't broken. I can't see a frail Dragon-type ever be broken in a tier where Fairy-type Extreme Speed is used on so many mons.
The problem is that none of them can directly punish Wake and need some sort of support; no, Altarianite Dragonite is not an answer when Scald exists.

It does have some insane offensive benefits( one of it being that it needs no setup and can just start blasting opposing mons with high power stabs) but i think it is managable.
In what way is it manageable? Clodsire either has to forgo Mega Evolution, have Defog support from Mandibuzz/Corviknight, or accept a hazard weakness, and Audinite Milotic/Slowking/Vaporeon are way too specific and don't really answer anything else (Dragonite literally beats both).

Due to rng not rlly being on my side i did have to play a bit more games than i would like, and in none of the games did Walking Wake prove too much.
I have a feeling this because Wake was slotted on a team that didn't give it consistent and frequent ins or hazard stacking, which is where it shines.

It is definetely an extremely good and threathening offensive weapon, but i believe it has some cemented answers that will always stop it from becoming an unstoppable force.
See 2nd part

I am, however, a bit torn on what to vote, as i see both sides of the coin equally, therefore i can also understand how one would think Wake to be too much for the tier and how it can sometimes cheese its way out of certain situations, like burning an opposing Dragonite via Scald. As of now i'm like 50/50 on voting ban or dnb.
Dragonite isn't really even an answer because Scald burn is incredibly likely. The only answer it can "cheese" is Clodsire with a crit Draco.


personally i think walking wake is a really solid mon. it does have answers though :milotic: is a solid defensive counter that also functions as a slow pivot for the rest of your team. when i was laddering walking wake felt completely useless against magearna and clodsire teams or magearna and milotic. i also think that with walking wake gone garganacl will be even more of a bitch to deal with.
There are only 2 true answers, Water Absorb Clodsire and Audinite Water-types, and I really don't know what else does answer - RegenVest Slowking? That sounds incredibly fake, though. Magearna isn't really even an answer but it does cause annoyances in combination with Clodsire. Don't see what it does in combination with Aud Milotic, though.

On the topic of Audinite Milotic, that mon is incredibly mid. It does 0 damage, has slightly too little bulk, and very little utility. Would not recommend it. Literally only use in very specific scenarios where you need an Ursh + Wake answer.

walking wake while a good pairing with hazards, also is very hazard vulnerable.
Not wrong, but Wake is better at taking advantage of hazards more than any other Pokemon bar maybe Regieleki or Raging Bolt, and even then it's incredibly close. Hazard control is also really easy to fit since Wake + Eleki is a phenomenal pairing and Sablenite pivots naturally pair well with Wake too.

and the other bits:
garg and ceruledge should've been sussed first imo. all in all i think i'm gonna vote Do Not Ban.
Garganacl, while good, is really not broken. Salt Cure is great and it has a decent amount of Stone flexibility, but losing its best stone, Aggronite, really harms the longevity of Garganacl. It probably can get away with some Plate bullshit, but generally it's fine to answer. Ceruledge I'm not against but it's worth noting how unsplashable it is - the amount of support Ceruledge needs isn't negligible.
also #freekoraidon
no.
 
just got the coil ranking to vote on suspect tests, finally and I might as well just say what I think tho it obviously would be similar to what other people say. im gonna be straight up and think I'll vote ban for a few reasons. First and most clear reason walking wake hits to hard and is way to fast, nothing can truthfully and safely switch in without half there health being gone Spd magearna is not a option it gets murdered if theres spikes which usually wake is paired with a mon with spikes. like previously mentioned above audinite mitotic sits there and does nothing much and gets flipped turned and is primarily heavily specific just to counter like 2 mons and thats it, venusaurite clodsire gets killed in 2 hydro pumps, altarianite dragonite can switch in but it kinda cant because scald burns are still a thing, there are offensive counters for sure like the extreme speeders of the tier but they obviously cant switch in. so key points for walking wake. no truthfully safe switch ins if they are they get threatened by burn or flip turned on. its so fast that the espeeders of the tier can only reliably kill it and also other priority users like kingambit and raging bolt.
Screenshot 2025-04-12 at 8.10.46 AM.png
 
to preface, another team to add to the mix: https://pokepast.es/f1fbc5d1c8e7cdc4

its pretty good, heatran is really underrated in this metagame atm imo.

I'll be voting Ban on Wake. I think it is super oppressive to play against when using any more offensive team. I think it turns up the stakes of who wins the hazard war, which is already in my opinion arguably too influential on the outcome of games in this tier, into something that WILL decide the game, because BO often cannot afford to run a dedicated shitmon like milotic just to beat wake like a lot of fatter structures in this tier can, and if you don't have hazards up to curtail wake as offense it will run all over you and you will lose the game in 20 turns. Its ability to dictate momentum with flip turn, burn would-be checks like dnite, and just force out an absurd number of mons means it will get value in virtually every single game;. Furthermore, while other pivots like Urshifu are curtailed by the existence of helmet (and just generally more splashable checks), wake's ability to nuke potential helmet users and force in very specific checks consistently means that it is extremely consistent as a positioning tool for other breakers as well, like ceruledge.

While I was at one point neutral on wake, as I've (ab)used it and played against it more and more I feel like it is a clear detriment to the health of the tier; it's an incredibly splashable offensive pivot that does insane damage in a tier that already at times feels matchup fish-y due to the sheer amount of threats it has. Wake is an enabler of what I view as some of the most unhealthy metagame trends in this tier and for that reason I think it's a clear ban even if it's an unusual pokemon to ban compared to more flashy breakers like ceruledge.

Ban garg like right after this though please because after wake is gone it will be able to sit on every team forever. PLEASE
 
Whipped up this cool DD WP NDM team, it was really fun to pilot!
:Dragonite: :Magearna: :walking Wake: :Pecharunt: :great Tusk: :necrozma-dusk-mane:

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As for whether Wake should be banned or not, I'm not very sure for what my vote is gonna be. Never really had too many issues with opponents' Wake while laddering (Ik low ladder isn't meant to be taken seriously at all), while my own Wake definitely provided insane value every single game.

I don't really have much else to say about whether Wake is healthy or not, & this verdict might just be based more on my instincts & my meh ladder experience. Maybe there are some nuances to Wake's playstyle that I'm missing, or if I haven't actually played against a good Wake at all. For now, I'm leaning slightly towards Do Not Ban, but am not set in stone.

Also huge thanks to zastra (my tutor) for helping my out with my team(s) as well as teaching me about this tier. (Though he's gonna kill me if I vote DNB, somebody help!!!)
 
The results are in, and no further votes will impact this!

29 voters, of which 27 voted
  • Walking Wake: Restrict 18 = 62%
  • Walking Wake: Do Not Restrict 9 = 31%
Thusly Walking Wake is now restricted from Mix and Mega!

Pinging dhelmise about incoming changes.

Final 2 voters have a bit under 6 hours before voting closes.
 
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