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Welcome to the Paldea region! Discuss any aspects of the Scarlet and Violet Little Cup metagame in this thread. This can include Pokemon that you think are ridiculously strong, movesets that are unique that you think could be viable, or any other aspect of LC that you find interesting. Developments, trends, and commentary belong here.
A reminder that we have a Viability Rankings on the way, so try to avoid giving things ranks for now. In addition, the council is also hard at work trying to get ourselves ready for the new generation as quickly as possible, so keep that in mind as we move forward.
i have only played a handful of games with the most ungabunga team i could possibly craft, i.e. webs with broken johtomons and meditite. not gonna lie it was a blast to the past to play a meta with krow tite and missy all in one but my god them combined with tera is actually ridiculous. ill link the team that i built in like two seconds and discuss some of the mons
the two second team
in a meta where everyone is spamming busted things, webs are going to only be more busted than they already were
last time this was allowed in lc this thing was running a multitude of sets. has a high bst providing it great bulk with eviolite or longevity with juice and hits the incredible 19 speed tier, nasty plot sets are an absolute menace. as we saw with gen 8, ghosts were better than ever before due to the removal of pursuit, which we saw be the reason for gastly to get banned. now with tera, particularly tera fighting with tera blast, this thing is just absolutely obscene, tera is something that can be discussed more in depth but tera fighting allows missy to bail out against any dark types and smack them while also preventing it from being walled by normals, and it has dark pulse for the giraffe. ban this shit asap. honestly gastly seems bannable too while we at it.
its been nearly nine years since meditite and murkrow were seen in lc as far as i remember, and its back to just plowing through teams and even resisted foes. it got access to close combat which makes it harder to play around compared to hjk, whereas before it required some amount of prediction to use. meditite can also use tera ghost/dark with tera blast to just turn heads on ghost types while youre at it. honestly i see a similar story as xy here. btw tera dark seems more favorable than tera ghost because of the resistance to ghost.
this mon has 19 speed, solid bulk, access to nasty plot while also having a respectable attack stat. not only that, it got a new move this gen called twin bean which hits two times and has 100% accuracy according to showdown, useful for breaking sash/sub, lets it antilead surskit if you want to lmao. while it may not immediately dismantle teams in the same way misdreavus does imo, just its np set alone compounded with its wide movepool, even ignoring tera blast which it could use to blow past whatever it wants, is crazy, i dont see how this mon will last. 455 bst lc mon btw
so unlike the previous three, dunsparce is not as immediately game shattering in my opinion. it can run a multitude of sets, coil, agility, can run juice, evio, scarf even; this mons bulk and wide movepool make it extremely versatile, not to mention it can set rocks and use glare. it should always take advantage of serene grace, and especially with webs, dunsparce can abuse the shit out of flinches. i think headbutt is better than body slam for flinch and bite is also needed to hit the ghosts, while earthquake is valuable for hitting pawn hard. theres hyper drill as a power option, dunsparce could even take advantage of roost, and theres just a big ass early gen normal type movepool for this guy, even ice spinner is there. theres lots of experimentation with this mon for sure and i easily can see him get suspected cause of how many ways there are to abuse his decent offensive stats and serene grace flinches, makes togekiss look like childs play.
losing knock off rn sucks and its best dark stab is night slash, however its an invaluable defensive piece especially with all these ghosts, normals, and glimmet running around currently. even if most of those mons inevitably get banned, its still a great mon back once again to do pawn things like get rocks up and check certain mons, though everything seems to run tera fighting rn.
yeah its back once again with its prankster bullshit, 19 speed tier, amazing power with brave bird and sucker punch, oh and now it can tera fighting to just shit on pawn, remove its rock weakness when it wants to switch back in, while keeping its other two stabs. this mon can go all out attacking with juice or lo, or can home in on prankster twaves and taunt. even without tera i think this mon is busted again.
i wanted to touch on glimmet since it has abra special attack and a surprisingly high bst for a post-gen5 lc mon, itll be the go-to hazard stacking option similar to how dwebble was in previous gens especially due to its toxic debris ability. hard filtered by diglett especially though and it has trouble against pawn and bray too ofc but it definitely has a place.
tera mechanic
take whatever i say lightly as its only been an hour but wow ngl this mechanic is kind of mindless for singles. im not gonna necessarily talk about how broken it is but i do want to bring up some possible uses for tera that ive seen others use too. a lot of the renowned dualtyped coverage such as boltbeam and edgequake are going to be very valuable with tera. perfect example of this is ghost and fighting imo, a lot of ghosts in this meta will probably want to opt for fighting tera type, particularly if theyre running tera blast. however, i think that fighting types like meditite will prefer tera dark because of the better matchup against opposing ghost types as they currently roam around mindlessly. other tera types to consider are teras that make you immune to a type/move category even if they dont necessarily power up any of your four moves, such as ground, flying, steel, grass, etc, which can honestly let pokemon circumvent opposing mons that would otherwise neutralise or check them outright. these can even be resists, theres lots of experimentation but as to whether it is healthy for the game is another story, definitely a busted mechanic though.
i can certainly say ive enjoyed my time playing a meta with a similar feeling as early-xy thats for sure
Think this is an alright set this early. Sticky Web is popping up all over the place and a Ghost Terastal type forces a lot of 50/50's with some stronger Pokémon in the tier that rely on Fighting or Ground coverage to check Pawniard. This gives ample opportunity to acquire a +2 Attack boost. Once boosted, Pawniard becomes very difficult to handle for most teams and can quickly snowball a win. Night Slash is a safe Dark type STAB move, but doesn't hit much that the combo of Iron Head and Sucker Punch doesn't already. Brick Break gives you the ability to hit other Pawniard and other Dark types that may pop up.
This set uses Terastallization very opportunistically, so patience is key. Hazard support with Stealth Rock and Spikes is a huge help for this set and lets Pawniard nab some good KOs with a boosted Iron Head that would otherwise just survive. It's also important to note that this set becomes weaker to other Dark types once Terastallized, so further team support to keep Pokémon like Murkrow under pressure is also helpful.
The choice between Eviolite or Life Orb is based on team structure and support used around this set. Life Orb allows Pawniard to serve as a more dangerous offensive check to Misdreavus and other threats weak to Sucker Punch while Eviolite makes checking Murkrow safer and enhances Pawniard's overall survivability.
quick word on tera: this is the most flexible mechanic we have ever got in the history of pokemon and i really love how it can be used bot offensively and defensively, which makes it really valuable on any team. some pokemon can use it to get a third stab and coverage or boost up their already existing stabs, or you can use certain types to check important stuff in the metagame while executing their roles effectively. but enough talk.
yea. uh, i think i do not need to explain how good this bastard is right now. oh, and icy wind is mandatory for speed control so faster stuff unaffected by webs does not use your surskit as setup fodder.
ghost spam is crazy busted right now and more with webs on the loose as misdreavus can run NP sets thanks to its high speed tier and natural bulk and blast through most of the metagame. misdreavus has also the perk of being able to terastallize into fighting type and beat pawniard while also avoiding getting trapped (spoiler: it will never get trapped) by nothing in the metagame. it can also choose to punch big holes in the opposing team by using life orb sets for inmediate power. shadow ball + fighting tera blast coupled to an array of amazing options in tbolt, eball and will o wisp and sub make it really easy to slap on many teams and manage crazy shit like meditite and non np krow sets on the run. absolutely insane.
gastly on the other hand, is able to hit everything in the metagame for big damage. if needed, it can choose to run tera fighting to beat pawniard, though i doubt it needs it since missy makes a better use of it with its better stab. however, the poison STAB gastly has is valuable for hurting both girafarig and dunsparce, which otherwise can beat non tera fighting missy variants. they can get away with SO MUCH if played correctly and i think it's insane.
accuracy be damned my boy can run now close combat! ahem...
historically, meditite has been known for being the pokemon with the highest attack in little cup, and this gen is no exception either as it can now forgo HJK in favor of a more accurate fighting type stab. on top of that, in a ghost type ridden meta, it has access to dark tera blast to deal with gastly and misdreavus, while also managing girafarig on the go. the wallbreaking capabilites of this mon have only improved, and the lack of decent fighting checks in this metagame means it can run rampant with scarf sets to abuse pure power boosted attacks. oh, geez.
the only thing my mind says when i see murkrow on team preview is: "why."
yup, prankster np sets are back, as well as mixed lo sets to dish out big damage 2hkoing most of the metagame. on top of that, both sets benefit HUGELY thanks to tera fighting beating pawniard while keeping dual stabs active to deal with ghost types and 2hko everything at worst in the metagame. specially speaking about np sets, they pose a huge threat being able to ohko everything with proper support. nothing more to say.
probably the pokemon who can manage ghost spam better right now, and it also gets a psychic stab that hits two times (twin beam) and allows it to break sashes, meaning danger for surskit if it decides to lead. and guess what? exactly! another fighting tera user that can beat pawniard by itself. it also has decent bulk, access to many coverage options in tbolt, shadow ball, eq, and dazzling gleam. however, np sets run rampant thanks to its asset of resistances and inmunity to ghost types, which means we will see this pokemon tear down the metagame little by little.
yeah... my hype for dunsparce died down quite slowly after seeing what this metagame is right now. while its 26/16/16 bulk with proper investment allows it to tank non effective hits, its coverage options for pawniard, gastly and misdreavus, which are everywhere, kind of dwindle down. however, glare gets the job done by giving dunsparce a mean of speed control so it can abuse its perks in the metagame with headbutt + move to choose between bite and earthquake. this mon looks menacing on team preview but to make it work it requires proper support and chip damage (recovery moves only have 5 PP, watch out!).
as for stealth rock setters, these two are right now the best choices out there thanks to their typing, stats and coverage options. the other options out there feel really underwhelming, even if glimmet can use a sash set to spread toxic spikes on contact.
pawniard is important in this metagame for being an inmediate threat to the so spammed ghost spam even if it lost knock off, and with webs everywhere it is kind of mandatory to have it in your team. mudbray, on the other hand, can make use of its great bulk to get stealth rock up and start hitting strong thanks to its 20 attack eq, as well as using rock tomb to slow the ghost-types down.
i have seen this little thing and something downed on me:
thanks to its already high speed tier and speed boost, flittle can outspeed most of the unboosted metagame and use tera dark to hit ghost types couple to its stab psychic for very strong damage. it also can use uturn to generate momentum for its teammates or escape from a threat that cannot beat which would be pawniard in this case. while it might not be so useful right now i believe it is worth a shot.
sheesh, rufflet really loves this metagame right now. webs make bulk up sets become quite dangerous after a couple boost and break through everything that does not resist flying + fighting combo. while roost has been nerfed to 5 pp, it still helps rufflet in preserving its longevity. however, scarf sets will have a field day thanks to the inability of the metagame to handle 27 attack stabs so i do not see rufflet struggling for relevancy in the metagame.
Ran through a few games. All the Johto mons seem really strong. Lots of ghosts everywhere. Ive had some fun with scarf Quaxly as a poor man's LC Gyarados. Nothing super fancy, but it has done a solid job into a lot of teams I have played against:
LC is banning Moody, Murkrow, and Meditite effective immediately. Murkrow and Meditite are too powerful to keep around, and will hurt the tier's development. Moody remains too strong and deeply uncompetitive on even the worst of Pokemon in LC.
It's been 24 hours and I've been playing a lot of games, so I wanted to post here. I wanted to give some thoughts on Terastallization as a mechanic as well as looking at all the mons in the early meta rn and seeing what I think is good, bad or broken. I've been basically only using offense so that could bias me at some points, but I still wanted to give some early thoughts
Tera Mechanic
I'm still not sure what to think about this mechanic, so first I want to lay out some Pros and Cons off the top of my head.
Pros:
It gives a lot more freedom in the builder
It allows Pokemon that might otherwise be completely unviable to muscle through counters (e.g Flittle)
For the most part it's predictable, a certain mon will really only ever be 1-2 (with the exception of mons like Misdreavus who are obviously broken)
It's way less broken than Dynamax
It heavily rewards "hard reads"
There is some counterplay, such as using Protect to scout or simply revenge killing
Cons:
It makes the game far more stressful than something like Z-Moves, you always have to be thinking about when you and your opponent should most optimally Tera and the amount of decisions involved you always have to be making is frustrating
Makes games more inconsistent and matchup-fishy, you simply have no way of knowing if your "counter" to a mon will actually beat it or if you'll just lose.
Breaks a lot of Pokemon. If we keep Tera we will realistically end up banning a lot of Pokemon that could otherwise stay (like Rufflet off the top of my head).
Introduces constant 50/50s. If I'm using Dunsparce for example, I have to guess whether the opposing Misdreavus will stay Ghost or Tera-Dark. These decisions often decide games and just aren't skill expressive.
I'm gonna be honest. Despite being someone who usually has pretty strong opinion on what should and shouldn't be allowed, I have literally no idea on this one. It's simultaneously the most and least fun mechanic I've ever seen in Pokemon. It's like a ticking time bomb is constantly going off on both your side of the field and the opponent's. If there were a suspect literally right now and I had to vote on whether Tera should stay in the tier, I simply wouldn't be able to answer. This isn't like Dynamax and is going to need a fair amount of time to determine. We also need to get rid of all the broken stuff first of course, and see how it feels then.
There are problems I can see arising if we do or don't ban it, and I wanted to ask them here to see if anyone had any thoughts about them:
If we do ban Tera and all the broken mons, and then DLC brings a lot of the SWSH staples back, what if the tier becomes a slightly modified clone of Gen 8 (a largely hated meta)? Is this even a negative thing? Should we approach some of the broken mechanics with more leniency to try and raise the power level of the tier? Is there any way to prevent this that means we aren't suffering with broken stuff until DLC? Furthermore, how will we determine if a mechanic as unique as tera is "truly broken"?
If we don't ban Tera, how will that affect LC's place in tournaments? Tera seems weaker in LC than in any other tier, with tiers like OU for example, it seems like a 99% chance that Tera is going from early impressions. LC already has a lot of derision in the tours community, and do we want to risk getting removed from SCL for something like Monotype by keeping this mechanic that makes the game play so differently?
Overall this seems like a nightmare to deal with tiering-wise, and I hope we can find a way to avoid all of these problems. Only time will tell whether this mechanic is broken or not.
Let's look at something more exciting though, the Pokemon.
Misdreavus is, of course, ncredible, and one of the two broken 19 speeders right now along with Giraffe. I think what really makes this mon absurd is Tera. While most mons usually only have 1-2 really good Tera types, I've seen Dark, Fighting, Fairy and Electric Missy all work amazingly. Even without Tera this mon should probably still be banned though, just ridiculous
The first "new" mon I think should go, this mon is really the full package. It's fast, bulky, hits hard and sets up. You can't Sucker Punch it either because of Tera-Fighting. As much as I hate to say it because this mon is a lot of fun, it's busted.
This thing is less broken than everything above, but still will end up needing to go, especially when everything above is gone. This mon is impossible to kill. One game I clicked Aerial Ace with Rufflet on a 30% Dunsparce and it lived and Roosted on me. Absolute nightmare to deal with.
This isn't a mon but I'm including it here anyway. We should just remove this from the tier now, the early Impidimp screens teams are looking too good with the amount of power in the tier, and frankly it's just as degenerate as ever. Would love to see this taken out before it can ruin tournament games for another gen.
This mon may be too strong, but I BARELY think it fits in the tier (if it is broken it's because of Tera). Rufflet is as strong as ever, but the new presence of mons like Glimmet help keep it in line. This mon is really fun though.
Diglett is, as usual, amazing right now. I imagine with Tera this mon will eventually be broken, and even without it I'd like to see it go at some point. KSG came up with Rock Blast, which is really incredible for invalidating webs teams by killing Surskit with 3 hits (or 2 for LO). Evio is great for Pawniard too. Excellent mon.
Surskit (by which i mean Sticky Web) is really strong in the meta right now. Basically nothing can get rid of hazards. like the two above, I can see this getting banned.
Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Brick Break
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
This along with Glimmet is the best rocks setter. Losing knock off hurts, but Pawniard is gonna be incredible even without it, and it gives you room to run Brick Break for other Pawns. I really love Tera Flying on Pawn, and in my opinion it highlights all the best aspects of the mechanic, using it to style on Diglett and hard-reading when an opponent will Tera-Fighting to punish them. It's awesome.
This mon is goated and the only reason we aren't seeing it on every team is because it's outclassed by Misdreavus. When that goes, this mon will be unbelievably good. Probably one of the best Tera abusers. it also gets Nasty Plot.
This is, in my opinion, the best Paldean pokemon in the meta along with Glimmet. The sample set I've given will be a mainstay on HO assuredly, but the utility this mon has with Knock Off and Prankster Parting Shot is also incredible. I really love this pokemon. He's also adorable in a kinda gremlin way, which is bonus points.
This thing is probably the best lead in the game, and also probably the best switch-in to things like Rufflet. There's a reason thing is on like half of the teams being used right now. Toxic Debris is an incredible ability and access to rocks/spikes is super valuable in a metagame with like, no removal. Great mon.
This pokemon has completely flown under the radar, which I just do not understand, as it's basically the only reliable removal in the tier. Once people figure out this thing is broken it'll be everywhere, for sure. It can do a lot.
Here it is. Here's the drummer. Time will tell whether this mon is as broken as drummers usually are. I really like it on snow teams with Snover as aleaniled has been innovating, really cool structure.
This Pokemon is extremely interesting. It's one of if not the only viable spinner, one of the only mons that can Knock, and has access to Spore. I had fears that this things ability might make it unusable but it's actually great, a defensive bulwark in an explosive meta. This mon will eventually rise to the top of the tier, I guarantee it.
Maschiff @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Stakeout
Level: 5
Terastal Type: Dark
EVs: 36 HP / 212 Atk / 36 Def / 28 SpD / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Play Rough
- Trailblaze
- Psychic Fangs
One of the better scarfers and a really interesting new mon. I hope this thing ends up being good beyond right now with all the frail shit and ghosts, because I do like this mon a lot.
This mon is looking VERY shaky right now, but I think it will get better with time. Hazard removal is big in this meta, Moxie is great, it has access to priority, etc. All of these are good qualities to have and I'm sure this mon will have SOMETHING to do once the meta settles.
This thing is cool. Is it good? Your guess is as good as mine for this thing.
Fuecoco @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
Level: 5
EVs: 220 HP / 44 Def / 12 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
The last of the starters, and imo the most underrated one. This thing is so good for shutting down the multitude of setup sweepers that exist rn, especially girafarig. I really like this mon a lot and it's one of the few new defensive tools that have potential.
This is easily one of the most exciting new Pokemon to play with, and is an offensive menace. I think this mon will have a lot of potential when the meta settles as a disruptor in its own right. Without Tera though, I fear for this mon's viability.
Azurill @ Berry Juice
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 5
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Body Slam
- Waterfall
I'm so happy for Azurill I love this guy. This is another example of all the best parts of Tera. Part of me wants to not ban Tera simply because I want this set to keep existing. It's beautiful.
In a meta like this with so few ground types, Magnemite will obviously be amazing. I don't see it much right now but I imagine usage will rise quickly.
The Fighting type everyone was hyping up, Mankey, I've seen get some usage. Does it do much? No, but this mon could easily get a lot better over time. Nice into webs too.
Larvesta @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Def / 156 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
Larvesta is definitely worse with so little removal and fighting types being mostly irrelevant, but it definitely still has some potential I think. Terastallizing into something that resists Stealth Rock is an interesting idea I'll have to try.
Mudbray @ Berry Juice
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
Mudbray has a great BST, good typing, and good moves. It's basically impossible for this mon to ever be bad.
This thing is really interesting. It's like a more useful Pumpkaboo. Wind Rider is such a cool ability, and the immunity to Icy Wind it provides makes this pokemon by far the best Surskit counter. Shadow Sneak might be better than Spikes if you're scared of Gastly or something.
Shellder @ Eviolite
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Liquidation
- Ice Spinner
It's Shellder. Now he can finally be a Rock type though which is really fun.
***
I might do a follow up to this as the meta develops and more things get discovered. If you're reading this and want new things to try, here are some mons I personally really am excited to see get tested more:
This meta is looking like it's gonna be a blast, and I'm excited to experience it with you all.
In terms of mons that won't immediately be banned, I've been kicking around with these four for a while now, and I think they make a pretty good core, (briefly) getting me to #1 on ladder.
Glimmet, the suicide lead. Guaranteed to be able to set up rocks against everything in the tier except the giraffe, this guy has the consistency and insane stacking potential to make dwebble blush. The 20 special attack destroying things that try to set up on it is just a bonus, honestly. The tera type is just a haha funny gimmick: you probably shouldn't press it.
Toedscool. Mr. role compression, in the flesh. Rapid spin + knock off is an incredibly potent combination for consistent hazard removal, and toedscool's natural special bulk compliments it perfectly. A spore that ignores abilities and the potential to set and spin make this mon three team members in one. Its most glaring issues are its 4x ice weakness and its general inability to do damage, especially against foes like dunsparce. Tera steel is only there in case you desperately need someone to tank a flying or ice hit.
Snover is back up to all its slush rush-enabling tricks, only this time it's been gifted a free 50% defense boost, which increases its longevity considerably. With no mienfoo and no trapinch, Snover is free to drop protect for a potential fire tera blast, giving it the ability to beat steels like pawniard.
The big boy himself, Cetoddle combines a slush rush sweeper and belly drum sweeper into one monstrous package. the game plan is thus:
Step 1:click belly drum
Step 2: click tera ice
Step 3:click ice shard
Step 4:win.
Earthquake gives good coverage against steel types who resist shard, while substitute helps it set up against status spammers and mons that can't do much damage, like toedscool. Ice Spinner gives it a bigger nuke in exchange for a harder setup. The biggest problem for Cetoddle right now are the lack of opportunities to set up (because of the huge power level of mons like missy), and mons that can take one of its moves after a belly drum, which include
uh
just Dunsparce.
If you want to try out Cetoddle but don't want to "waste a teamslot" on a "useless hail setter": First of all, apologize to Snover; second of all, the round boy is perfectly capable of working outside of hail:
Cetoddle @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 52 HP / 212 Atk / 36 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Icicle Crash
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
Hello all, I thought I would share the two teams I have used the most on ladder to some level of success before misdreavus gets banned. Click on mons for the paste
This team is supposed to almost always win the hazard war with glimmet and allow you to win with either one of scarf pawniard or misdreavus in the back. I also think quaxly is a really cool spinner that fits decently into the meta because it also offers a decent offensive prowess with moxie + getting the rapid spin speed boost. Dunsparce is also incredibly bulky and especially with meditite now banned it can be extremely changing to kill.
This team attempts to take advantage of 3 of the most broken pokemon in the tier, misdreavus rufflet and dunsparce. Nasty plot misdreavus I find incredibly strong and rufflet is a great scarfer that kills the majority of the tier with tera flying if you can kill an opposing glimmet. Then coil dunsparce is extremely changing to kill with a physical attack and it deals a surprising amount of damage with setup. Diglett is here to trap opposing glimmet for rufflet, pawniard is here for rocks and also can take advantage of tera flying to catch people trying to kill it with tera fighting. Then Toedscool provides very crucial rapid spin support for rufflet to truly thrive and it can spore to give either misdreavus or dunsparce a free chance to setup.
For those trying to explore the meta I hope these teams can help even if they could possibly not be the best they could be. Good luck to all as we try to explore this meta together!
Been playing some games with this and I'd like to add a twist to Glimmet.
Glimmet @ Life Orb
Ability: Toxic Debris
Level: 5
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 20 Def / 236 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Rock Polish
I've been using this set alongside screens Impidimp and it's put in a lot of work for me. With it's Abra level special attack and access to rock polish it can pull off some clean late game sweeps under screens. It's worth noting I've been using tera fighting for Pawnaird and to resist sucker punch from Diglett, but there could be a more optimal tera type I haven't found yet.
I've had a lot of fun using this against people expecting the standard hazard stack Glimmet so I think it's worth experimenting with some more.
The first thing that I do when a new LC meta kicks in is trying out Trick Room and rain teams. Trick Room got practically deleted because we lost all the good setters. :(
Rain on the other hand is pretty funny in this meta, capitalizing on the lack of Water resists.
Posting to support quickbanning Dunsparce prior to the start of the kickoff tournament. This mon is so dumb. It turns every game into a series of coinflips tilted in Dunsparce's favor, it is almost impossible to kill thanks to its outrageous bulk and the total lack of good Fighting types, and Serene Grace lets it just luck through "counters" like pawn. Even Misdreavus doesn't really beat Dunsparce since it has to remove its immunity to Normal to even touch it.
There's been discussion on quickbanning Misdreavus too but I'm not totally convinced yet. Without tera it loses to prominent threats in Girafarig and Pawniard; in the latter's case the tera fight is super telegraphed and easy to take advantage of. It's still super good though but I'm not convinced it needs to go immediately.
Thought I'd write a quick post detailing some decent pokemon I haven't seen too often.
(click the image for sets)
This guy gets a lot of cool moves: Brave Bird, Acrobatics, Aqua Jet, Rapid Spin, Roost, Liquidation, maybe Work Up/Low Kick/Facade have a niche? Quaxly is hard to stop once it gets going, and being one of the few hazard removers in the tier is a huge point in its favor. I personally think Tera Water is better than Flying, but Flying is a good option as well.
Shroodle has a ton of potential with both Prankster and Unburden--can't wait to see how this thing looks once the meta settles down more. The set I've had the most success with is Swords Dance + Berry Juice, cleaning off weakened teams very effectively. Power Herb is another fun option, and there are other items like Air Balloon or Shuca Berry that could be exciting. The Prankster set with Encore is a good answer to any setup mon, and Shroodle provides good utility with its other moves: Knock Off is always great, and Parting Shot lets you evade Diglett quite well.
Maschiff isn't quite as strong as the other two, but it still packs quite a punch with Stakeout. Choice Band is the classic "no switch-ins if you click right" set, and Choice Scarf is a solid revenge-killer for the current top pokemon. The Hone Claws set is a little aspirational, but can work well with Sticky Web support if you get the opportunity.
There are other cool pokemon I want to experiment with in the future, but in the present I support quick-banning Dunsparce; its bulk means it checks everything while nothing checks it back, Coil (and sometimes Amnesia) lets it break through anything, and Serene Grace finishes off the rest of the would-be survivors. In other news, I made a videohighlighting some of the hot new pokemon this gen. Maybe send it to a friend you want to get interested in LC?
So I've already played more ladder games in sv than I did in all of swsh and it's been a bit up and down but I wanted to just post a few of the things I've messed with and enjoyed thus far.
Now this is probably like sparce's 3rd or 4th best set, but it really goes in some games by catching folks off guard. You set up against so much between sparce's great bulk and the general lack of knock off running around currently. Again, probably not its best set, but I would recommend giving it a go if you wanna try something a little different with your weird land snake. Rattled over Serene Grace just because this is a set that's not really looking to abuse Serene Grace that much, so you might as well get occasional speed boosts.
Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 116 HP / 36 Atk / 116 Def / 156 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Tera Blast
Again, this is probably not the optimal way to run this mon, but tera fire has been pretty neat for me. Dodging wisps is a fun treat, but the real thing its been nice for is bopping Toedscool that think they get a free spore vs you after they switch in on rocks or eq. Fire is also pretty solid all things considered as a defensive typing, ignoring the rocks weakness you introduce.
OHKOing basically everything is fun. Getting outsped is a little less fun, but this thing is usually good for at least 1-2 kills a game.
Hopefully, sv lc remains interesting enough for me to continue playing. I think Missy is the clear next mon on the chopping block, with Giraf and Dunsparce right behind, but I'm interested to see how things play out from here.
As someone who started playing Little Cup very late into Sword and Shield, it's been exciting to be here for the very start of Scarlet and Violet! Despite only being out for a day or two, lots of new and exciting ideas have emerged. I look forward to seeing the meta continue to grow!
While I may not be as an experienced player as most that will post in this thread, I wanted to share my thoughts on "the big three" that are being discussed for quickbans:
I don't think Misdreavus or Girafarig need a quickban. I don't have much else to say given it has been a very short time that they have been out to play with, but I think it's worth giving the meta a little more time to settle around them before deciding on a ban.
Dunsparce, on the other hand, should be considered for a quickban. As gali mentioned above, it is more than capable of "lucking" through any potential counters thanks to the combination of Glare, Headbutt, and Serene Grace. With a 60% chance to be flinched and a separate 25% chance to be paralyzed, it becomes very difficult to break through. Even if you do land a hit, it won't be doing much thanks to Dunsparce's incredible bulk (which can be boosted even higher by Coil or Amnesia.) Even if you do have a Ghost type, Dunsparce is capable of learning Bite (another 30% flinch move.) Personally I find this to be very uncompetitive to play against, but I will admit the teams I have been playing with don't have a hard counter to it such as Fuecoco.
As a side note, I tried out Buizel with a dedicated rain team but didn't have much success. It comes short of getting a lot of important KOs and takes itself out very quickly with Wave Crash and Life Orb recoil. There also aren't any other good rain abusers in my opinion, making it really hard to justify a rain team. Outside of rain, Buizel just doesn't do enough damage to justify a slot (again, in my opinion.)
I was really excited to try Buizel out and was really disappointed when it didn't really work out for me, so if anyone has had success with Buizel I would love to hear about it!
So, I realized that gast w/ a scarf outspeeds a lot of very relevant threats ( Diglett, Scarf Rufflet, Missy, Rapid Spinned Quaxly, etc.), and i wanted to capitalize on it. I mainly use gast as a surprise factor, ala scarf frillish last generation, or as a revenge killer to threating sweepers (nasty plot missy and Quaxly have been the most common targets.) I also pare it with another ghost such as missy or drifloon as a ghost-spam team alot, which i find an incredibly potent though you do have to play smart around Dunsparce. (which dunsparce itself is a massive problem and def needs a quickban or at the very least a suspect at some point.)
Moves are standard. STABs, Thunderbolt to hit birds and waters (rufflet and quaxly in particular), and Tera Blast to bait pawn and dunsparce, though i have found some success with destiny bond. I havent tested it, but i assume dark pulse could find a niche to beat Girafarig.
The main Pokemon this set struggles vs is and . Shroodle can use you as bait to set up an SD and ohko you with knock off after you prot its berry juice (you do only around 60-70% to shroodle). Girafarig can be revenged killed if its at around 40% or so, but it tanks a hit and ohkos you otherwise. Aside from that, if you wasted your tera on another pokemon Pawniard and Dunsparce both beat you flat up. Also anything with sucker punch if you wasted your tera.
While initial assessments of Dunsparce would not indicate it being so high on the ban docket, Dunsparce has become intolerably strong. As soon as Meditite was no longer around to OHKO the stateline and its handful of ways to flinch through your checks became not only frustrating but absurdly difficult to deal with. With boosting in Coil, paralysis with Glare or Serene Grace Body Slam, frankly insane bulk, and just enough coverage in Bite or Earthquake Dunsparce would often run away with games despite facing the best (though limited) counterplay available.
this pokemon is actually so good. being able to set up prankster screens while also having parting shot to make foes even weaker against them enables setup sweepers like dunsparce (rip bozo lmao) to go wild and wall the entirety of the metagame, as well as cetoddle and misdreavus to find safer chances to setup and punch holes on opposing teams. i know this might not be on the radar of everyone, but trust me, fighting a screens team with this one on the opposing team is a dreadful experience. here is the set i have been running:
since the main objective for impidimp is to abuse prankster and set both reflect and light screens up, its overall bulk is maximized to resist stuff after setting said screens. its typing is a blessing since it can manage misdreavus if it does not run the rare dazzling gleam. it is also good the fact that prankster does not have effect on dark types, which means pawniard cannot benefit from impidimp trying to pivot out with parting shot and thus relieving you from a big disappointment. since you don't want pawniard to beat you drain punch is mandatory to threaten it by 2hkoing it. the lack of decent knock off users bar toedscool means it gets more turns of screens for its teammates in a more frequent fashion, which makes their job of beating the opposing pokemon much easier.
this is probably the most insane setup sweeper i have ever seen. its bulk, coupled to its great attack stat and decent speed tier make it able to setup belly drum consistently against glare dunsparce (rip bozo again lol) variants thanks to substitute, and it can ohko every non-resist bar dunsparce, which is 3hkoed. there is a way to counter it which is by using fuecoco (not a real pokemon), who bypasses belly drum boosts and can threaten it from setting up. however, i came up with a way to bypass its resists:
tera ground provides a much needed power-up to overcome pawniard, who poses a big trouble and resists ice shard, and it can hit dunsparce even stronger meaning that, with a little bit of chip damage or hazards up, this pokemon is able to either weaken the opposing team in early-to-mid game or cleaning teams in late-game.
toedscool has turned out to be much better than i initially thought. its decent 17 speed tier, coupled to its raw special bulk and typing allow it to act as a really good utility pokemon thanks to its access to both knock off and rapid spin, being the former one practically scarce in the current metagame. the most llamative perk about toedscool is mycelium might, an ability that, at the price of having negative priority, toedscool's status moves bypass other pokemon's abilities. this means huge things such as putting sap sipper girafarig to sleep, which drains momentum from it so you can start using your utility options against the opponent's switch in, and having 16 evio bulk lets it resist misdreavus quite well and chip it slowly with knock off.
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