SM Doubles OU Mega Sableye + Celesteela Stall [Peaked arround 1350]

[itram2001]

Hey there, smogonfans!

So a while ago I made this team, a mix between bulky offense and stall (idk if there is a name for this). It also helps me spend some time by now since stall games take quite a bt of time of people's lives. The teambuilding went a lil' something like this:

Me: Wow, Celesteela has a lot of cool surprising sets, so I'll just go with a standard stall because I can.

Kayuga (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 116 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
​

Pretty straight-forward set, but it has a secret, with Adamant Nature and 40 Atk EVs, Beast Boost raises its Attack, which turns it into a deadly late-game cleaner. Leech Seed allows to stall pokemon that resist Heavy Slam, mostly Water-Types. Substitute and Protect are a way to make Celesteela have access to even more recovery (and make it more annoying). I sometimes use Flamethrower over Sub, mainly when a Steel-Type has destroyed my team (yes, it's plain dumb, I know).

Me: How bout some Sableye for the body? Its got sum nice defenses and a noice support movepool, why not?

Stall-Da (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt
​

Well, this is quite standard, Will-O-Miss can be used with non-Mega Sableye to burn some opponents, Foul Play hits physically offensive pokemon for some good damage, and since its damage isn't reduced by burn, it allows me to deal with amost every physically offensive pokemon. Recover is Mega Sableye's main selling point, healing by 50% and, since Mega Sableye isn't affected by Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce, it makes it incredibly annoying. Taunt is just to shut down other offensive pokemon or setup sweepers, and, while it could be changed by Fake Out, I still prefer Taunt in most cases, since stall has some problems with setup sweepers with recovery. He can also take Knock Off for Alolan Marowak, which is nice.

Me: Well, since I got two mixed walls, let's just get a special wall for now. Why not Alolan-Muk?

Mudball (Muk-Alola) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Power of Alchemy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Blast​

Oh boy, my man Muk, godlike typing and incredible special bulk, specially when carrying AV. Power of Alchemy, actually, has quite a bit of tricks on my team, being able to get both Levitate from Hydreigon and Beast Boost from Celesteela or Buzzwole. Knock Off is the move I spam the most, dealing nice damage and removing items from opposing pokemon. Shadow Sneak allows me to pick off weakened foes that would otherwise threaten Alolan-Muk, like Excadrill or Garchomp. Gunk Shot is a secondary move that deals with most Fairy-Types and Fire Blast covers Mega Scizor, which would otherwise stop this beast from shining. I sometimes change Shadow Sneak for Pursuit, but, since I don't have specific trouble with pokemon that are weak to Pursuit Trapping, but I usually prefer Shadow Sneak.

Me: I want to surprise opponents, make them think they can handle the situation and turn it arround, and I think AV Buzzwole works perfectly. It also resists or can do significant damage to the most common trappers, so it MIGHT work.

Buff'd (Buzzwole) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Ice Punch
- Leech Life
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
​

Well, this is the main surprise of the team. The given EVs and AV equalize its physical defense and its special defense, allowing him to tank a lot of hits. Leech Life provides recovery, which it lacks on since it carries Assault Vest. Ice Punch hits Lando-T, which would otherwise wall this set. Power-Up Punch is my only Fighting-Type move, and it boosts my Attack while Beast Boost boosts (lol) my defense. Earthquake hits Alolan-Marowak, which could prove to be problematic against my team, and Toxapex.

Me: Well, pretty good defensively, but who do I attack with? I guess one of each offensive stat would be good. For the physical side, let's take Alolan Marowak. Yeah, that might work, at least by now.

Skull Kid (Marowak-Alola) @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Detect​

Well, just the standard doubles set, STAB, Bonemerang and Detect, which I've chosen over Protect to avoid a potential Imprison. The EVs are just the most used ones, being able to take Tapu Lele's Psychic under Psychic Terrain, which is nice since it can OHKO it with Shadow Bone. Then I just went for some balance, prioritizing Attack. Alolan Marowak also takes on Tapu Koko, which is a huge threat to my team, since it can hit both Celesteela and Mega Sableye for super effective, and it still deals quite a bit of damage to Alolan-Muk with terrain-boosted Thunderbolts. It also takes out Celesteela's Electric weakness by virtue of Lightning Rod.

Me: I NEED a special attacker, and it can be weak to Fairy, since the team doesn't have that much trouble with it. How about Scarf Hydreigon? I think it'll work better than Lele.

DROP IT! (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
​

Well, looking for a revenge killer? Here it is! Its boosted speed reaches 486, outspeeding quite abit of potential threats. I use it as a way to revenge kill opposing Dragon-Types like Zygarde, Garchomp or opposing Hydreigon without scarf. Draco Meteor is a very powerful move with insane base power and, while it drops my SpA, it's worth for me, since I switch him out a lot. Fire Blast hits Steel-Types like (Mega) Scizor or Ferrothorn and Dark-Pulse is my main way to deal with opposing Alolan-Marowak, and U-turn works well with scarfed pokemon, being able to break Disguise, sashes/Sturdy and chip away foes while switching in a better mon to handle a (probably Fairy-Type) hit.

Counters to the team:
===========

Tapu Koko: While I have Alolan-Marowak alive, it isn't that much of a problem, but if it carries HP Ground or has a teammate to deal with him, I really struggle to take him down. I have even more problems with Pelipper + Tapu Koko + Kingdra cores.

Absurdly strong wallbreakers: Choice Band Tapu Bulu can decimate big parts of my team simply with brute force, but if Celesteela is still alive, it has some issues. Still, it's one of the main flaws of my team.

Trappers: Since half of my teamis weak to either Pursuit, Magnezone or Dugtrio, I have some issues with that, but Dugtrio specifically gives my team nightmares, it has Reversal to destroy Hydreigon (but it can have problems since Hydreigon is immune to Trapping), Arena Trap and Earthquake to trap and OHKO Alolan-Marowak and Muk, and can set up rocks, which really annoy Alolan-Marowak. These pokemon, however, struggle to deal with Buzzwole (guess why I put it on the team).

Well, that was it, I hope you liked it and I defenetly encourage you to try it out

Hide

Kayuga (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 116 Def / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

Stall-Da (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt

Mudball (Muk-Alola) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Power of Alchemy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Blast

Buff'd (Buzzwole) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Ice Punch
- Leech Life
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake

Skull Kid (Marowak-Alola) @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 4 Def / 68 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Detect

DROP IT! (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn

Replays

None atm :/

P.D.: It's one of my first RMT, please look for mistakes and be nice!

 

[itram2001]

Anyone?

 

[mushamu]

Anyone?

I like the team, why would taunt be used on Sableye? I recommend knock off in order to remove scarves. Or maybe protect because it is doubles OU

 

[Level 51]

Hi there. The postscript note at the bottom of your RMT says to be nice, but no promises. This team is also rather difficult to rate in a standard way, so I may have to elaborate a little, please bear with me.

To cut to the chase: this team is not a good team. There is, in fact, a name for "a mix between bulky offense and stall"; this is "bulky offense that doesn't really do much damage". Stall as a concept is not feasible in most DOU matches, which are quite often faster-paced and more offensive than singles games. The key difference between DOU and singles is not just that there are more Pokemon on the field; playstyles differ widely as well. For example, Mega Sableye, while being a suspected threat in ORAS OU, is just not effective at all in DOU. Its ability to sit around on the field and use Recover while providing Magic Bounce is less notable when (a) hazards are not a centerpiece of the DOU metagame, and (b) DOU allows for double-targeting, also known as "taking twice as much damage in a turn if your opponent wants you to".

That aside, the reason this team is rather difficult to provide a solid rate for is the fact that it's not clear what its purpose is. Your teambuilding process makes little to no coherent effort to show why each Pokemon deserves each spot on the team, and rather feels like "let me just put a cool-looking Pokemon into the next slot". While this is fine in some cases to get teambuilding going, it really shouldn't be done for all 6 slots on a team. The resultant product is a mishmash of 6 Pokemon which is rather confusing from an outside perspective. Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:

Me: Well, since I got two mixed walls, let's just get a special wall for now. Why not Alolan-Muk?

Me: Well, pretty good defensively, but who do I attack with? I guess one of each offensive stat would be good. For the physical side, let's take Alolan Marowak. Yeah, that might work, at least by now.

Me: I NEED a special attacker, and it can be weak to Fairy, since the team doesn't have that much trouble with it. How about Scarf Hydreigon? I think it'll work better than Lele.

Each of these three quotes reflects a lack of thoughtfulness in constructing your team. In general, when attempting to construct teams, a good way to go about it is "what do my current Pokemon struggle against and what addition could help?" Your statements show no indication of any of this. Where did the need for a special wall arise from? What offensive holes does Alolan Marowak cover? Where did the sudden mention of Lele pop out from, and why are you comparing Hydreigon to Lele when they serve almost antipodal distinct purposes?

Me: I want to surprise opponents, make them think they can handle the situation and turn it arround, and I think AV Buzzwole works perfectly. It also resists or can do significant damage to the most common trappers, so it MIGHT work.

"I want to surprise opponents" is a decent enough thought; I myself apply that sometimes to my teams. However, the "surprise" should be directed at something specific: "I want to lure opposing Heatran with my Metagross and KO them with Tectonic Rage." "I want to lure opposing Steel-types with my Tapu Lele and KO them with an All-Out Pummeling." What you have here is "let's use a mildly surprising set for the sake of it", which doesn't really make sense in the context of your team. What exact situation are you trying to surprise your opponent in? Which "common trappers" are you referring to and why does your team specifically need help against these trappers?

Another issue I have with the presentation of Buzzwole is your use of the set itself as a reference point for your choices. For example, you say that Ice Punch is used to hit Landorus-T, which otherwise walls the set. But why don't you include a reason for wanting to hit Landorus-T in the first place? Surely the combination of Celesteela and Prankster Will-O-Wisp from pre-Mega Sableye is enough to deal with this? The same thing with Power-Up Punch: you're describing what it does ("my only Fighting-Type move, and it boosts my Attack") without stating why. Why are you using Power-Up Punch when much stronger alternatives like Superpower exist? Note that this isn't a problem limited only to your description of Buzzwole. Shadow Sneak on Muk, for example, is justified as a way "to pick off weakened foes that would otherwise threaten Alolan-Muk, like Excadrill or Garchomp". Why are these threats mentioned in particular? They're certainly not very threatening to the rest of your team, why bring them up here? This is symptomatic of a build where each Pokemon is designed in isolation from the rest of the team, which doesn't make for a very cohesive strategy.

Overall, your post betrays a lack of knowledge about the DOU format and metagame, which is especially evident through your consistent reference to threats ranging from almost nonexistent to completely nonexistent, such as Alolan Marowak, Toxapex, Mega Scizor, Garchomp, and Dugtrio. I know I'm supposed to be critiquing your team, but it's not feasible to change it to a viable team without major modifications, which is not what the RMT forum is for. If you read nothing else in this admittedly very long post, please read this. Here are some suggestions for teambuilding in the future, distilled from the paragraphs in this post:

• Learn about the differences between doubles and singles. Here are a few of the main ones, but there are more:
  • Hazards aren't as important
  • Stall is much weaker
  • Speed control is more important
  • The banlist is different
• Try to have a cohesive strategy for your team, rather than just "fling 6 Pokemon at my opponent and deal damage". Something as simple as "build team to pressure Celesteela's usual counters" would be a huge improvement over what you have.
• Make sure you can justify your choices to yourself when you use them, both in terms of adding Pokemon or moves or EV spreads.
• Don't just justify your choices in the context of a single Pokemon. Make sure you can explain how adding a move to a Pokemon helps the team carry out its goal (e.g. "since my team is weak to Landorus-T, I decided to add Ice Punch to Buzzwole to threaten it").
• Some resources you can refer to: here is a thread which carries a bunch of teams, some of which are very solid and have good teambuilding reasoning behind most of their choices. Here are the DOU Viability Rankings, which show you which Pokemon are reasonable threats in the metagame to be built around and which don't exist.
• Finally, if you would like some further help on your team after you give it a little look over, feel free to ask around in the DOU room (preferably during our busier hours). I'm sure a few of the people there would be at least decently willing to help you.

Good luck with your team. I'm sorry if this post was something of a baptism by fire for you and DOU, but I hope you stick around and continue to improve.