Me First Discussion

Pitcher

Can anybody explain how this move works to me?

"Strikes first with foe's attack at 1.5 power."

Does this mean if you attack a pokemon with 100 attack your attack will have 150 bp? If so, does this work after they Swords Dance? What about STAB from a normal pokemon?
 
More information can be found [thread=16843]in this thread on the same move[/thread], but many of the questions you asked are still a bit murky and deserve clarification.
 
"Discussion" implies you were going to give us something to discuss, not that you were going to ask a question that belongs in the move thread.

In any case, yes, it uses the opponent's attack, with 1.5x power (so Earthquake would be used at 1.5x power). I use STAB comes from the user, not the opponent. The move fails if you are slower than the opponent (it has no priority modifier); it also fails if your opponent uses a move that doesn't do damage.
 
I'd be happy to make this into a dicussion.

Does anybody think this move will be viable on any Pokémon? I'm torn on the issue myself. I guess Xatu has enough Speed, Attack and Special Attack, but it has so many other options now. (I like how its number of level-up loves doubled this generation.) Likewise, Lucario may have better things to do. Perhaps on Stantler?
 
Stantler might be able to use it, perhaps with some support from Thunder Wave, since he might be a bit too slow to use it on it's own. But like you've said I think most Pokémon who learns it has better things to do rather than gamble with this move.
 
Me First Mewtwo has the potential to be a real pain in Ubers, seeing as how Calm Minded' Me First Shadow Ball or Dragon Pulse/Spacial Rend rips the opponent a new one.

AS Me First Absol could wreak havoc. CB Salamence things it can Dragon Claw Absol into oblivion and then gets owned. Granted, that trick is probably only good once but if it KO's the show's over. Besides, AS Absol is still viable with Strong Luck Night Slash, X-Scissor, and maybe Wisp for the surprise factor.

There's also AS Croagunk but I don't think it will be as effective until move tutors come back.

Quick Feet Mightyena is kind of sketchy for it.

Lickilicky and Slowbro could use Me First with Trick Room for LOL.

Tail Wind + Me First Xatu could wipe out Gengar or Azelf switchins that try Shadow Ball. It even has Wish support and T-Wave. Xatu has always had awesome support moves.
 
Serebii link, in case you were wondering.

The lack of a priority modifier kinda kills this move, as well as the lack of really good Pokemon that learn it. There's only Slowbro, Lickiiiiii and Lucario, and Mewtwo/Mew for ubers. Me First's interesting effect isn't enough to warrant the use of Pokemon like Xatu. Plus I think I'd rather try my luck with Counter or something.

Another thing that screws up this move is that there aren't many Pokemon you can catch with it. STABing Ghosts and Dragons come to mind first, but the fun tends to end there pretty quickly.

Also, I wonder if you copy the opponent's type of Hidden Power or use the one your DVs would let you use...
 
Mekkah said:
Another thing that screws up this move is that there aren't many Pokemon you can catch with it. STABing Ghosts and Dragons come to mind first, but the fun tends to end there pretty quickly.
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Well, you're assuming here that the attacker is using a STABed move. If I had an Adherance Scarf, Me First Raticate (for a humorous example) or Stantler, and a Normal-, Rock-, Dark-, Ice-, or Steel-type used a physical Fighting-type move on me to take advantage of my one weakness, that'd be some big damage.
 
Well, most of these lesser used Pokemon tend to get owned by the main attacks of standards. For example, Metagross could just Meteor Mash it and Me First wouldn't save Raticate there (just to give a non-logical example). Fighting moves tend to be on Fighting Pokemon anyway. I'm having trouble thinking up a Pokemon that uses an unSTABed Fighting move in their standard set that wouldn't just maim Raticate with their main attack.
 
Mekkah said:
Well, most of these lesser used Pokemon tend to get owned by the main attacks of standards. For example, Metagross could just Meteor Mash it and Me First wouldn't save Raticate there (just to give a non-logical example). Fighting moves tend to be on Fighting Pokemon anyway. I'm having trouble thinking up a Pokemon that uses an unSTABed Fighting move in their standard set that wouldn't just maim Raticate with their main attack.
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Only something like Close Combat Ursaring or Focus Punch Kangaskhan, but the latter would be hind a sub and the former could just as well rape with Return, although a Guts-Cate Me First Return DOES beat the shnitzel out of Ursaring. 391 Atk(Guts) + STAB + Me First Boost = OWN, unless Ursa has some defensive EVs. Kangaskhan is much more defensive though, and the Subpunching versions can't be owned that easily.
 
Suppose there was a poke with T-wave support and Me first, and the opponent was paralyzed, Me First will go off even though the game knows they will be fully paralyzed that turn right?

Absol used Me First!
But It Failed!
Foe is Fully Paralyzed!

OR:
Absol used Me First!
Absol used Brick Break! (or whatever move they were going to use)
Foe is Fully Paralyzed!

Even if the latter is true, it's a very difficult move to use effectively.

Does any one know how it works 2V2?
Can you use it on your slower teammate?
Can a poke use it to charge up Heatran who is about to use Overheat?
Will it be able to copy moves that only hit foes (like Icywind)?
Will Choice Scarf screw up Me First like it screws up Sleep Talk?
 
It's probably the best to ask that in the Research thread, or have a search around first. Also if Raticate got his Guts to trigger I'd rather use Facade than Me First, which has more universal uses. :]
 
@Mekkah

Yea I guess so... I'll repost it there then.
I've been through that move and item research thread so many times already, I don't think my Q's are answered in there (yet)
 
Lol at how Me First is on the Slow family. Lucario and Mewtwo are probably the only two usable Pokemon to be able to use Me First effectively.
 
Mekkah said:
It's probably the best to ask that in the Research thread, or have a search around first. Also if Raticate got his Guts to trigger I'd rather use Facade than Me First, which has more universal uses. :]
Click to expand...

There's no real if there with Toxic/Burn Orb, Raticate's defenses are too pitiful to take a hit anyway, so losing a percentage in exchnage for doing something before a gruesome death is preferable.

Consider the following:

Raticates Facade (with status): 210 BP
Raticate's MF'd Return: 229 BP

Not much boost here over Facade, but since Jolly Raticate with Guts has 391 attack, it needs whatever boost it can get.

Supereffective moves:

Shadow Claw on Ghosts: 210 BP
Brick Break on Normals: 225 BP
Dragon Claw on Dragons: 240 BP
Earthquake on Rocks/Steels: 300 BP
Close Combat on Normals: 360 BP
Meteoric Swarm on Dragons: 420 BP (but off the crappy 136 SA...)

Earthquake is the keeper here. Switch this in after a CBTar or CBGross kill and tear them a new one. Guts MF'd EQ Does 96-100% to CBGross. DClaw does a similar number on Mence but not Gablias. BB and CC you'll see less of, but they're there.
 
Hmm, perhaps if it had an Attack-raising nature and was on a 2v2 team with Tailwind... It'd be risky to have Raticate and a Tailwind user on the same team, though. That's a lot of fragility.
 
2v2 is a general different area where you are so likely to get blasted to hell before you can set up something like that. Raticate simply doesn't stand a chance there. The idea is nice, but you have to realize having one partner with Tail Wind just to maybe-pull-this-off is probably not worth it if the Pokemon you're setting up is probably going to die anyway.
 
Footnote said:
Hmm, perhaps if it had an Attack-raising nature and was on a 2v2 team with Tailwind... It'd be risky to have Raticate and a Tailwind user on the same team, though. That's a lot of fragility.
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Xatu learns Me First and Tailwind :)
I know Xatu is fragile but it gets so many moves this generation I want to mess with it a bit

Lucario is a pretty good user of it I'd say, with a high ATK and SP.ATK allowing him to use any anticipated move quite effectively (barring things like Ghosts using fighting moves)
 
Mekkah said:
2v2 is a general different area where you are so likely to get blasted to hell before you can set up something like that. Raticate simply doesn't stand a chance there. The idea is nice, but you have to realize having one partner with Tail Wind just to maybe-pull-this-off is probably not worth it if the Pokemon you're setting up is probably going to die anyway.
Click to expand...

Mekkah, I appreciate your input, as usual. Keep in mind that I have copious experience with 2v2 and that I already mentioned the fragility problem. There are ways to get this sort of combo set up in a 2v2 environment, but perhaps not with these Pokemon specifically.

You're also right about it not being worth the setup. If, on the other hand, you make sure that most of the rest of your team can significantly benefit from the Tailwind as well, then it might be worth the risk. When making 2v2 teams, this sort of thing is exactly what you have to think about.

Khawarith, I'm with you 100%. Xatu gets so many cool moves now that I can't resist trying to think up interesting ways to use it.
 
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