Masquerain Discussion

StruggleSweep

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BST 70/60/62/80/82/60

Ah yes. Masquerain. Masquerain is another pokemon that is blessed with a wonderful movepool and an excellent ability in Intimidate, but unfortunately has below average stats. In the dawn of Fifth gen, it was given a brand neew tool to utilize; Quiver dance. Quiver dance is the most effective set you can run. You can run a scarf, but other things such as Manectric, Typhlosion, and Rotom-C are much better scarf users. It can baton pass with agility, which is probably the only other set you may want to run. Keep in mind, whatever set you run, you NEED rapid spin support.

Quiver Dance:
Masqerain @ Life Orb/Lum Berry
Intimidate
252 Spec Attack / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Ice Beam
-Hydro Pump

Very Effective Set. Switch in on something you have a type advantage on, Quiver Dance, Attempt to sweep. If you run the lum berry and sleep powder misses, you can get up a free Quiver Dance on a Liligant. Bug Buzz is you main stab, and pretty much kills everything not resisted. Hydro Pump is a beautiful thing. I have had multiple moments where people switch in a Steelix, not expecting a Hydro Pump. Its beautiful. Ice Beam rounds off the coverage nicely. Also, after one Quiver Dance, Alakazam's Life Orb 252 Special Attack Timid Psychic does 50%, then is OHKO'd by Bug Buzz.

Agility Pass
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Intimidate
252 HP 252 Speed
Hasty Nature
-Agility
-Baton Pass
-Bug Buzz
-Whirlwind/Toxic/Stun Spore

The basic Agili-Pass set. Keep in mind I am terrible with Ev spreads, so Im going to need a suggestion on this. Agility on the first turn, maybe get off a Bug Buzz, then Baton Pass. Whirlwind, toxic, or the terribly inaccurate Stun Spore are the wildcards. Agility+Whirlwind can be used for scouting, and could be effective with Spikes, Rocks, and/or Toxic Spikes. Toxic and Stun Spore are there to maybe get off a few status ailments and mess up a team. Stun Spore may also be able to get you off an extra Agility. Keep in mind this set is basically destroyed by the evil one, Sableye.

Quiver Pass (Malkyrian made this one)
Masquerain @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
Intimidate
208 HP/68 Def/236 Spe
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Baton Pass
-Bug Buzz/Substitute
-Substitute/Ice Beam

Speed EVs allow for outspeeding Jolly Archeops after a Quiver Dance, which is the fastest thing you can reasonably outspeed. HP EVs give you a Leftovers number and allow you to switch into Stealth Rock twice if need be. The remainder of the EVs are put into Defense in the hopes that Intimidate lets it take a hit, though they can be put into Special Attack instead if you feel Masquerain might be able to hit something before it passes. Feel free to play with the moves if need be; Air Slash and Hydro Pump are probably viable attacking moves.

So, what do you guys think?
 
I think it's a decent starting point. Access to Hydro Pump and Ice Beam help differentiate it from other Quiver Dancers, though base 60 speed is a letdown.

First of all, Timid is better than Hasty. The only reason you would be using Hasty would be if you were running a mixed set, which Masquerain really has no reason to do, and even then Naive works better with Intimidate. Timid is really the best +Speed nature for Masquerain.

I can't see a good reason to run the AgiliPass set over, say, Ninjask. Ninjask has the same typing, outspeeds the entire tier, and has access to Speed Boost, letting it run Substitute/Protect/Baton Pass to not only duplicate the effect of this set but also let something get in completely for free. Yes, Sableye's Taunt ruins that, but the same can be said for Masquerain. Not to mention Accelgor, Durant, Scyther, Sawsbuck, and Gligar, who can all do the same thing with better stats and (barring Scyther) a better typing.

I would say play to Masquerain's strengths; it is the only mon with access to Baton Pass and Quiver Dance apart from the banned Venomoth. That right there is a huge boon to it.

A set like this should work:

Quiver Pass
Masquerain @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
Intimidate
208 HP/68 Def/236 Spe
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Baton Pass
-Bug Buzz/Substitute
-Substitute/Ice Beam

Speed EVs allow for outspeeding Jolly Archeops after a Quiver Dance, which is the fastest thing you can reasonably outspeed. HP EVs give you a Leftovers number and allow you to switch into Stealth Rock twice if need be. The remainder of the EVs are put into Defense in the hopes that Intimidate lets it take a hit, though they can be put into Special Attack instead if you feel Masquerain might be able to hit something before it passes. Feel free to play with the moves if need be; Air Slash and Hydro Pump are probably viable attacking moves.
 
Honestly Quiver Pass is Masquerain's only set that isn't completely outclassed by Lilligant or even Butterfree. Hydro Pump and Ice Beam aren't worth losing sleep powder for, especially with Masquerain's awful speed and bulk.
 
Malkyrian said:
I think it's a decent starting point. Access to Hydro Pump and Ice Beam help differentiate it from other Quiver Dancers, though base 60 speed is a letdown.

First of all, Timid is better than Hasty. The only reason you would be using Hasty would be if you were running a mixed set, which Masquerain really has no reason to do, and even then Naive works better with Intimidate. Timid is really the best +Speed nature for Masquerain.

I can't see a good reason to run the AgiliPass set over, say, Ninjask. Ninjask has the same typing, outspeeds the entire tier, and has access to Speed Boost, letting it run Substitute/Protect/Baton Pass to not only duplicate the effect of this set but also let something get in completely for free. Yes, Sableye's Taunt ruins that, but the same can be said for Masquerain. Not to mention Accelgor, Durant, Scyther, Sawsbuck, and Gligar, who can all do the same thing with better stats and (barring Scyther) a better typing.

I would say play to Masquerain's strengths; it is the only mon with access to Baton Pass and Quiver Dance apart from the banned Venomoth. That right there is a huge boon to it.

A set like this should work:

Quiver Pass
Masquerain @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
Intimidate
208 HP/68 Def/236 Spe
Timid Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Baton Pass
-Bug Buzz/Substitute
-Substitute/Ice Beam

Speed EVs allow for outspeeding Jolly Archeops after a Quiver Dance, which is the fastest thing you can reasonably outspeed. HP EVs give you a Leftovers number and allow you to switch into Stealth Rock twice if need be. The remainder of the EVs are put into Defense in the hopes that Intimidate lets it take a hit, though they can be put into Special Attack instead if you feel Masquerain might be able to hit something before it passes. Feel free to play with the moves if need be; Air Slash and Hydro Pump are probably viable attacking moves.
Click to expand...
Timid Nature added and your Quiver Pass set added.
 
Ice Beam is slightly weaker than Air Slash, but has better accuracy, better super effective coverage (Dragon, Grass [although Bug Buzz hits way harder and Air Slash slightly so], Ground [Hydro Pump] and Flying). While Flying has cool neutral coverage, its super effective coverage is somewhat lacking, hitting only bug, flying and fighting.

When you take into account accuracy, STAB Air Slash has only ~11 more base power than Ice Beam, but if not, 112 base power with huge neutral coverage and hitting Fighting-types for SE is pretty cool.
 
but the only se coverage ice beam gets that isnt already covered by bug buzz and hydro pump is dragon and flying. there are 5 fighting types in the top 35 usage, 0 dragons, and one flying type that is neutral to ice(moltres). The only viable ground type hit harder by ice beam than hydro pump is gligar which is still 2hkoed by hydro pump and never carries anything that can hit masquerain besides toxic
 
Masquerain will get most of his setting up done on Fighters thanks to intimidate and a 4x resist. Air Slash helps dispatch of them when he gets set up. Ice Beam, unlike Hydro Pump, warrants very little use beyond countering specific or uncommon threats. Just use Air Slash.
 
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