Pokémon Mantine

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SketchUp

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
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#226 - Mantine
Water / Flying
Base Stats - 85 HP / 40 Atk / 70 Def / 80 SpA / 140 SpD / 70 Spe

Abilities
Ability 1 - Swift Swim: If Rain Dance is active, this Pokemon's Speed is doubled.
Ability 2 - Water Absorb: This Pokemon heals 1/4 of its max HP when hit by Water moves; Water immunity.
Hidden Ability - Water Veil: This Pokemon cannot be burned. Gaining this Ability while burned cures it.

Moves
Level Up Moves
- Psybeam
- Bullet Seed
- Signal Beam
- Roost
- Tackle
- Bubble
- Supersonic
- Bubble Beam
3 Supersonic
7 Bubble Beam
11 Confuse Ray
14 Wing Attack
16 Headbutt
19 Water Pulse
23 Wide Guard
27 Take Down
32 Agility
36 Air Slash
39 Aqua Ring
46 Bounce
49 Hydro Pump

TMs
TM06 Toxic
TM07 Hail
TM10 Hidden Power
TM13 Ice Beam
TM14 Blizzard
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM19 Roost
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM40 Aerial Ace
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM55 Scald
TM62 Acrobatics
TM68 Giga Impact
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Surf
TM98 Waterfall
TM100 Confide

Egg Moves
Twister
Hydro Pump
Haze
Slam
Mud Sport
Mirror Coat
Water Sport
Splash
Wide Guard
Amnesia
Analysis
Even though Mantine always was a decent special wall, due to its high Special Defense stat and good defensive typing, it struggled in higher tiers because of the lack of reliable recovery and the inability to take physical hits. Gen 7 helped Mantine a lot, giving it a +20 boost in its HP stat and Roost. Because of that, Mantine does not have to rely on Rest to check pokemon such as Landorus and Aegislash anymore.

Potential Moveset
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 24 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Defog / Haze
- Haze / Toxic / Mirror Coat

A standard bulky support set. Roost and Scald are both obvious choices, giving Mantine longetivity and a way to damage (and burn) opposing pokemon. Mantine is a good defogger, because it is able to pressure many hazards setters thanks to its Scald STAB. Haze can be useful against pokemon such as SubCM Keldeo, Belly Drum Azumarill, Manaphy, SD Aegislash and SD Mega Scizor. Toxic can be used, if Haze or Defog are unnecessary. Mirror Coat is another option, giving Mantine the ability to KO pokemon such as Tapu Lele, Aegislash, Greninja, and Charizard-Y.

Personal Opinion
I loved to use SubToxic Mantine in ORAS OU, but the lack of recovery was a huge flaw. With Roost, Mantine will probably be really useful in the first few months of the SM metagame, because it is able to check some big threats.

Examples:
- Landorus-I (only loses to Rock Slide)
- Pheromosa (HJK only 2hko's if Stealth Rocks are up)
- Aegislash (LO SD and Toxic can be annoying, but the standard set can't break Mantine)
- Keldeo (obvious one, watch out for HP Electric)
- Greninja (Gunk Shot does a lot, but won't 2HKO without many Atk EVs)
- Charizard-Y (Strongest move doesn't even 3HKO)
- Latios (Soul Dew sets with Psychic > Psyshock fail to 3HKO)
- Manaphy (Rain Dance sets are outstalled by Haze [48 pp], TG 3 Attack sets also lose to Haze)
- Buzzwole (assuming the set Albacore posted will be most common)
- Celesteela, Genesect and Magearna (I don't know what these mons will run, but it doesn't look like they get past Mantine easily without Electric coverage)

And another cool thing is: I don't think Mantine will be very common, so neither will random Electric-Type lures

Edit: slashed Calm nature with Bold, because Bold is pretty good
 
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Actually look forward to where Mantine lands in tiers. It gaining recovery and a decent HP boost makes it really groovy. Also has just the right support moves to prevent it being setup bait too (hello Haze my old friend). Defog is cool too.

Dunno how well it will stack in OU atm, though. Willing to give it a fair trial.
 
Definitely a solid OU niche.

Being able to stop/check many threats on Rain (Keldeo, Kingdra, Ludicolo) and many common OU special monsters (Volcanion, Zard Y, Keldeo) is really solid. It's got all the moves it needs to do well, and juuuust the right stat spread too.

It won't be super common because it's still pretty passive, but it will certainly see OU play. It'll be interesting to see if Keldeo/Volcanion starts running HP Electric just to beat it.
 
I gladly take back every mean thing I said about Mantine last generation. Roost and a decent HP boost was just what the doctor ordered. Now it can actually be a good Keldeo/Charizard Y counter and Defogger without having to run a crappy RestTalk set just to last more than a couple of turns. Does well against Aegislash, too.
 
Martin said:
SketchUp just out of interest, what do the EVs you've listed do?

Also confirming SubTox is sweet as fuck
Click to expand...
12 Speed is mainly to speedcreep Azu and 8 Spe Skarmory. I don't exactly remember what the Def / SpD EVs are for (made this spread a few days ago), but I think it had something to do with Aegislash. More SpD might be useful, but I like the Defense investment for Gunk Shot Greninja and Pheromosa. I haven't done any calcs with Bold either, but I guess it could be nice for Pheromosa, Greninja, Banded Pursuit TTar, and Psyshock Latios. I prefer Calm because of Aegi/Lando/Magearna + Stealth Rock though.
 
The specially defensive wall versions of this thing are seemingly unkillable, especially when paired with a bulky grass like Mega Venu/Ferrothorn. It's making Toxapek jealous atm with how many dangerous threats it can shut down.
 
SubToxic set is really annoying for Rain Team (or most teams) to face. It gets up Sub against everything not name Tapu Koko (no one is using Kabutops atm) and can Toxic every thing to death or PP stall. Mega Venusaur pair nicely with this to get rid of all the Electrics.

Not fun watching this PP war against SubToxic Aegi, Torapex or Suicune though ...
 
This thing is really good actually now with all the buffs. It pretty much stone walls Keldeo and forces it to run HP Electric. Only a Specs Keldeo with Stealth Rocks on is capable of 1HKOing with HP Electric.

0 SpA Mantine Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 150-176 (46.4 - 54.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (24.9 - 29.4%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 292-344 (78.2 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 224-264 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Mantine: 127-150 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Not only it counters Keldeo / Checks Specs Keldeo but also has Defog and good defensive type combined with an amazing special bulk.

Best set I think it's:

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Air Slash

60 Def makes Specs Secret Sword always a 3HKO, the rest of the EVs goes to the special bulk.
 
I adore this thing tbh. really excites to see how stall could evolve in gen 7, i expect to see this bad boy everywhere
 
I really like this newfound OU wall because it got all the tools it needs to tank hits better and a reliable recovery. It has received two perfect theorymon buffs at once.
Now it stops every Swift Swimmer bar Kabutops, which has powerful physical Rock moves at its disposal. It is a shame that its offensive Swift Swim set stacks the same weaknesses with Pelipper, due to both monsters having the same typing.

The defensive set is quite linear with the possible exception of SubToxic strategy (which is a little variation on the theme), but Mantine has all it need to work well in OU with one or two sets.
Assault Vest is not that bad, but you lose the possibility to run Roost as a recovery.

This thing can even beat M-Venusaur because Roost underspeeds its giga Drain and Mantine can retaliate with Air Slash.
 
nameless90 said:
I really like this newfound OU wall because it got all the tools it needs to tank hits better and a reliable recovery. It has received two perfect theorymon buffs at once.
Now it stops every Swift Swimmer bar Kabutops, which has powerful physical Rock moves at its disposal. It is a shame that its offensive Swift Swim set stacks the same weaknesses with Pelipper, due to both monsters having the same typing.

The defensive set is quite linear with the possible exception of SubToxic strategy (which is a little variation on the theme), but Mantine has all it need to work well in OU with one or two sets.
Assault Vest is not that bad, but you lose the possibility to run Roost as a recovery.

This thing can even beat M-Venusaur because Roost underspeeds its giga Drain and Mantine can retaliate with Air Slash.
Click to expand...
It's like Gamefreak read our theorymon suggestion 0.0
This thing is a beast. Poor Skarmory got overshadowed (type-wise) by an Ultra Beast, but Mantine rose from the depths with dream scenario buffs.
 
Sacrificial Lambtias said:
It's like Gamefreak read our theorymon suggestion 0.0
This thing is a beast. Poor Skarmory got overshadowed (type-wise) by an Ultra Beast, but Mantine rose from the depths with dream scenario buffs.
Click to expand...

Skarmory is still as good as ever. Celestella doesnt have Roost, Spikes, or Rocks or Whirlwind or Defog. Skarmory is still the premier physical wall of OU. Celestella is more like a tank.
 
I love how they buffed this thing. We now have a new wall/check to several offensive powerhouses in OU and another option to choose when looking for a defogger, which is always welcome.

Clever buffs like this and smart nerfs to things like burn damage and thunder wave are really positive for the OU meta-game in my opinion.
 
I initially thought that this was going to be overhyped garbage, but I might have come to that conclusion a bit too soon. To break it specially I think you pretty much need an electric move, psyshock, or something stupid strong with specs. Boosting will probably be rather ineffective thanks to haze, although some strong z moves can get past. (Manaphy Ice z move will be enough, etc.) It's not bad physically either although it basically needs resistances in order to wall stuff - bug, steel, ground, fighting, water, fire are amazing resistances to have. It's problematic that all it can really do is scald and haze, if something can get around scald it's a PP war pretty much every time. So Mantine will pretty much lose if it gets toxiced.

I've already seen some HP electric Greninjas and such though. It's not really for Mantine, but more for Pelipper and Toxapex, while also helping with Celesteela, Tapu Fini, etc. If HP electric becomes a thing in gen 6 ou, as it was in gen 4 for Gyarados, it's gonna be a death sentence for Mantine. With that said, I think that Pelipper is going to die in a month or two - there's already like only one rain team (Pelipper/Kingdra/Tankchomp/Thunder Koko), and Kingdra isn't that hard to wall or work around.
 
HappyHoopa05 said:
This thing is really good actually now with all the buffs. It pretty much stone walls Keldeo and forces it to run HP Electric. Only a Specs Keldeo with Stealth Rocks on is capable of 1HKOing with HP Electric.

0 SpA Mantine Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 150-176 (46.4 - 54.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (24.9 - 29.4%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 292-344 (78.2 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 224-264 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Mantine: 127-150 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Not only it counters Keldeo / Checks Specs Keldeo but also has Defog and good defensive type combined with an amazing special bulk.

Best set I think it's:

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Air Slash

60 Def makes Specs Secret Sword always a 3HKO, the rest of the EVs goes to the special bulk.
Click to expand...
This spread also lets you avoid the 2HKO from LO Pheromosa HJK if Rocks aren't up:
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mantine: 160-190 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
This should be the Mantine spread people run!

Not sure if I would run it as my defogger though. Puts too much pressure on it when it has to check so much stuff already. Might be better to have another Defogger so that Mantine can do it's job better. I really like the idea of Sub/Tox/Scald/Roost.

I'm gonna try to make a team around M-Scizor + Mantine + a bulky ground like Hippowdon. That should be able to stand up to the majority of common offensive threats, unless I've forgotten something.
 
It will be decent.. I'm expecting it might do ok in the higher tiers but it certainly won't be overwhelming as its offensive presence is lackluster.

Not just roost, but 20+ HP is really neat. It'll be fun to pair this guy up with a lightningrod poke in doubles.
 
Sounds like Mantine will get a lot of competition from Toxapex, though Defog is everything here.

...

Forgive me for my limited competitive knowledge, but I wish to discuss and maybe learn a thing or to in the process.
 
The thing i'm going to like about Mantine most is the fact that it plays the role of a bulky water and defogger, with reliable recovery as well as a ground immunity. On paper, Mantine is ticking a lot of boxes which would usually take 2 slots to fill. And additional +20 hp was really nice to begin with, but roost is the icing on the cake. Giving it 252 hp / 224 defense with bold makes it reliable enough to fend off most physical threats, whilst the slight spd investment on top of the already huge base spd gives it that tiny bit more. It can roost on anything that doesn't pose a direct threat through status or 2hko, and can comfortably check most physical attackers with scald, whilst providing toxic support on other bulky mons.

My main problem with Mantine in the upcoming meta however is its ability to comfortably remove hazards. It's very easy for a pokemon to switch in whilst it uses defog, forcing a switch a lot of the time if at risk of a 2hko. With 3/4 tapu mons also kicking mantine to the curb, as well as getting pressured by ultra beasts such as kartana and xurkitree, it's questionable whether or not Mantine can truly live up to all the hype it was receiving in late ORAS. Hopefully Mantine can safely conduct the hype train!
 
Considering they're the opposite sides of the same coin, would new Mantine pair well with Skarmory for walls on each side? Or is the double Elec weakness too much and the physical side wall would need to be Ferrothorn and its ilk instead?
 
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