Resource LGPE OU Viability Rankings (Update @ Post #66)

[Eve]

Aaaaand done! Thanks everyone for the submissions. Next time I may need to ask vapi some questions about the program, as I got a lot of error messages, but the output doesn't seem to have any issues so we'll roll with it.

LGPE OU Viability Rankings - Early 2024
S:
A+: |
A: |
A-: |
B+: |
B: |
-=OU CUTOFF=-
B-: |
C+: |
C:
C-:
D:

Rank Changes

Note that this graphic includes Pokemon that didn't make it onto the VR- I am not entirely sure why, but I cannot figure out how to change this.

Tier Shifts
Chansey fell from OU to UU
Dragonite fell from OU to UU
Persian-Alola fell from OU to UU

Clefable rose from UU to OU
Jolteon rose from UU to OU
Vaporeon rose from UU to OU
Venusaur rose from UU to OU

For the time being, Alakazam and Venomoth will remain in UUBL. This may be revisited.


Some things to note:

• Only Pokemon that were ranked by at least 3 voters are included on the VR. This has no effect on any placements above the OU cutoff.
• Mega Evolutions were put through their own rankings, and then inserted into the regular mons VR afterwards. This should result in rankings that more accurately reflect how the Mega Pokemon compete with each other, though I would argue that it may have resulted in very generous rankings for Mega Pidgeot, Slowbro, and Pinsir.
• While the software would place D Rank Pokemon into several split lower rankings, I have grouped them into D Rank to avoid clutter.

New resources and LGPE CIRCUIT 2024 coming in the very near future!

 

[Soda_Eesti]

B: |
-=OU CUTOFF=-
B-: |

Why is the cutoff in the middle of a tier???
Due to the tour i decided to check out the resources, something i havent done since like december. and this just baffles me.

 

[Eve]

Why is the cutoff in the middle of a tier???
Due to the tour i decided to check out the resources, something i havent done since like december. and this just baffles me.

many tiers have a tiering cutoff between B and B-, the choice is entirely arbitrary no matter what but this felt like a good representation of the tier in my opinion and the opinion of other top players

 

[Soda_Eesti]

many tiers have a tiering cutoff between B and B-, the choice is entirely arbitrary no matter what but this felt like a good representation of the tier in my opinion and the opinion of other top players

Sorry I only play rby mostly and down there its Between B or B/C tier and C tier. Sorry for such a stupid question, i couldve thought about it and realized "Cuz it is" is probably just the answer lol.

 

[igiveuponaname]

I wasn't planning on making any posts until after LGPL was over but the latest PL game reminded me that since the last VR update a notable mechanic in LGPE has been implemented on showdown which hadn't been implemented prior. This nomination is based more on the impact of this mechanic being implemented rather than any notable meta developments.


UR -> idfk C- probably

One of the more notable mechanics in LGPE is how mega evolutions are handled, since there are no held items, the mega stones are treated instead as key items. For the vast majority of megas this difference in mechanics doesn't matter at all, but for mons which have multiple megas such as Mewtwo, or in this case, Charizard, it does have a notable difference. Namely, it lets these mons choose which mega form they would like to evolve into mid-battle, as opposed to being locked into one from the get-go. While this mechanic existed perfectly fine on cart, it hadn't been implemented until earlier this year on showdown, after the latest VR update.

So how does this mechanic being implemented on showdown make Zard Y worth nominating for the VR? Prior to the dual mega mechanic being implemented, you had to choose which Charizard form you wanted to use while in the builder. This made Zard Y a much less desirable option to choose from, since it many flaws, namely the quadruple weakness to Stealth Rock, made it difficult to both build a good team with it and to pilot it effectively while in battle. Being locked in to using Zard Y was simply not worth the hassle to put it simply.

But with the new mechanics, it's possible to build a team around the much better Zard X, and be in an in-battle situation where choosing to mega evolve into Zard Y is the preferable option. This brings me back to the replay from earlier as my example; in it, cherif18 uses a team that I had built prior to the dual mega mechanics being implemented on showdown with the team having been built with Zard X as the mega in mind. But with the way the battle pans out, Zard Y becomes the preferable option since rocks are never set on its side of the field and its much greater power lets it break past Mew much more easily compared to its draconic counterpart.

Damage calcs for reference

Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. Mew: 93-111 (53.1 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. Mew: 78-93 (44.5 - 53.1%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO

Simply put, this line of play would have been literally impossible a year ago, and players who wished to use Zard Y anyways would have had to contend with using a much worse mega form overall.

Of course there are Zard Y's many flaws such as the aforementioned quad weakness to rocks, base 100 speed tie annoyances, and shaky accuracy moves, which is why this nomination is placing it at a low C-.

Tl;dr/this post was a fucking mess: The flexibility of being able to choose which mega form you can use mid-battle gives Zard Y a shred of legitimacy as opposed to before the dual mega mechanics were implemented.

 

[BaitWiz]

LGPE OU Personal VR

Hey there - wanted to shamelessly steal Beagle's idea and make a personal VR with the mons that I'm familiar with and give some thoughts about the mons in the metagame after having a solid overall regular season, having spent an awful lot of time thinking about this tier. Going to go with a Top/High/Mid/Low tiering system rather than letters because I don't have the bandwidth to do a full blown letter ranking system at the moment.

Top Tier - These are the two Pokémon that should be brought into every serious game of LGPE. If you've played any games of this tier, you should know which two they are.

Top Tier

- The centralizing force of LGPE, perhaps even more centralizing than Gen 2 Snorlax. The viability of several Pokémon is warped almost entirely by this mon’s presence, with Clefable indirectly seeing less usage because of it (in spite of +1 Fire Blast doing a million) and Zapdos's role being partially defined by its matchup against Melmetal. It’s capable of 2hkoing the entire tier except for itself and towers over nearly every other mon in the tier. One set’s all you need when you’re *this* good.

- The other mandatory mon on any serious LGPE team, Mew is a mon with extreme set potential that tends to stick to either a more utility role with permanent rocks and whatever other utility moves someone wants or a more specially offensive role with any coverage it wants and Nasty Plot for good measure. There’s a ton that can be done with this mon and if this tier saw more regular play I think Mew sets would be one of the biggest places where people would innovate new and exciting things.

High Tier - I think these are some of the best mons in the tier, but aren’t necessarily required for every game. If you aren’t using a couple of them, though, I think you should probably consider the direction of your team.

High Tier

- Zapdos would be an amazing Pokémon even if Melmetal wasn’t in the tier, but its ability to 1v1 the tier titan with the assistance of Reflect is a feature rarely seen across the tier; combined with access to reliable recovery, pivoting options in U-Turn, and other move options like Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Drill Peck if it wants to mess with other threats, Zapdos is excellent at nearly anything it wants to do. The only thing that holds it back is it’s rock weakness, but it tends to excel in spite of said weakness. There's a reason why I used this mon every week except for week 1.

- Blastoise serves as one of this tier’s most reliable wallbreakers, threatening severe damage to nearly everything with its excellent special attack. Also included in Blastoise’s movepool is rarely seen priority in Aqua Jet which helps finish off frail and/or water weak targets that outpace it like Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and Alolan Dugtrio.

- Mega Venusaur is uniquely equipped to 1v1 nearly the entire tier if it connects Leech Seed and Sleep Powder. Its STAB Mega Drain and Sludge Bomb also hit extremely hard due to its excellent Special Attack, meaning it can almost always make progress for its team. Lastly, Venusaur works well on dual mega teams since its toolkit and role doesn’t change much when mega evolving; it just improves at it. Accuracy woes are the main regard in which Venusaur can struggle at times, and so since its consistency can be spotty at times I feel it’s slightly worse overall than Mega Blastoise in the mega slot.

- While Aero is often people’s usual go to pairing with Venusaur on dual mega teams to help ease the matchup against Mega Beedrill, it’s also a proven solo mega with a Speed tier only rivaled by the rarely seen Electrode. This excellent Speed pairs with amazing Attack, helping make up for the relative weakness of its STABs and letting its coverage hit even harder. Aerodactyl’s moveset is also far from set in stone; Rock Slide and Earthquake are must-haves, but the final two move slots are extremely flexible; Wing Attack for opposing grasses, Crunch for Mew, Taunt to deny rocks and recovery, and more! The biggest thing holding Aerodactyl back is its extreme frailty, often being forced to either take heavy risks or get chased out by anything it can’t OHKO.

- Our tier’s best ground and our only other viable Steel type makes its appearance here on my list. Dugtrio’s game plan is relatively simple with STAB Earthquake in a tier where Aerodactyl and the rare Exeggutor-Alola are its safest switchins. Beyond Earthquake and its accompanying Rock Slide to hit flying types, it has tons of different options; it can act as a team’s Stealth Rocker, catch faster threats with Sucker Punch, spread Toxic, and Substitute to ease prediction. Dugtrio’s only weakness is frailty, but it isn’t even that frail due to its typing being fairly solid in a tier without EVs.

- Starmie's excellent Speed combines with a solid defensive profile to make for an excellent Ground-type abuser and secondary Psychic alongside Mew. While its role is fairly one note as of now, with the only real standard being 3 attacks and recover, I imagine that there's room for flexibility here as well for the enterprising trainer. Its main issue is that it has a rough time with the tier's Electric-types, though anything that outpaces it can cause woes in general.

- A Pokemon I really should've used at some point, Jolteon trades Zapdos' flying typing, recovery, and pivoting for significantly better Speed, Shadow Ball to hit Mew harder, and Yawn to be annoying. I typically view Jolteon as a downgrade to Zapdos more often than a sidegrade, but the qualities I mentioned before mean that Jolteon pairs quite well with Zapdos as well to really pressure opposing Ground-type threats. Jolteon's extra Speed also means it outpaces or speedties mons already considered quite fast that Zapdos can struggle with at times like base Aerodactyl, Starmie, and Gengar.

- Gengar's pretty frail, but it has three things going for it; Mew and Starmie don't like Shadow Ball, most physical attackers don't like Will-O-Wisp, and Venusaur gets absolutely dominated by it. These three facts mean that Gengar can find a surprising number of opportunities to set up a Substitute, behind which it can do almost anything it wants, and in this way Gengar does extremely well in its role within OU.

- It’s a shame I never used Mega Gyarados, as it’s got quite a bit going for it. It has a fairly solid matchup versus Mew and does quite well into Melmetal as well; furthermore, it’s unrivaled in terms of sheer power within the tier with its monstrous base 155 Attack. The biggest thing that kept me from using Mega Gyarados throughout my time playing this tier is that it can be difficult to pilot at times; it often starts the game at 75% unless you lead it, which can often have its own set of issues into mons like Zapdos combined with lack of reliable recovery. Mew can also be awkward for it to lead into since Will-O-Wisp neuters its damage.

Mid Tier - These are mons that are still good within the tier, but I feel are either more specific in nature or have some sort of limiting factor that bumps them down a bit.

Mid Tier

- Bee loves STAB U-Turn in a tier typically lacking many pivoting moves; however it also absolutely hates Stealth Rock.. Mega Beedrill is an exercise in risk and reward, with its extreme frailty counteracted by monstrous Attack and Speed. While it has a horrific matchup into Mega Aerodactyl due to the latter’s better Speed its ability to bounce off of the rest of the tier makes it a momentum machine, especially if it can find its way safely into Mew. The bee is held back from excelling by its aforementioned struggles against Aerodactyl, extreme frailty that means it only typically comes in off of sacrifices, and a rocks weakness that can force it to risk a Roost to try and survive longer. It also struggles into tier king Melmetal, with Drill Run not even 3hkoing it. Beedrill requires careful building and precise play to succeed, but can create pressure like little else in the tier.

- I've always loved Xard as a Pokemon, so when I found out that it was still viable here, I wanted to use it fairly early on. Unfortunately, Xard has one huge issue it has to surpass before it can truly come online; it must mega evolve. Due to a quadruple weakness to Stealth Rock, Xard is often forced to lead, which can easily be abused with Toxic from the likes of Mew and Zapdos or strong attacks from specially offensive foes like Blastoise. Once it's online, though, Xard has some very powerful qualities that make it extremely powerful; it absolutely dominates Melmetal, absolutely torching it with Fire Blast and even being able to take advantage of it for recovery with the assistance of Will-O-Wisp, and it trades evenly with most Mew sets as well. Its STAB Dragon Pulse isn't resisted by the rest of the tier barring Dugtrio-Alola (who also fears Fire Blast), thus allowing for clean two move coverage that scares the living daylights out of almost anything that would consider switching in. The main factor holding Xard back once its online is its Stealth Rock weakness, meaning it must at times step off the gas to recover and give the opponent breathing room; something it'd really prefer not to give.

- Nidoqueen has tons of coverage, but tends to be relegated to either Stealth Rock duty or acting as an Electric-type switchin; its access to an offensive phasing move in Dragon Tail is quite appealing, though, and it tends to be one of the best punishers of Zapdos opting to stay in and Thunderbolt rather than pivoting out. Also, Super Fang can be a pretty good move for generic progress making in a tier where Gengar's the only ghost-type.

- Perhaps it's an odd comparson to make, but Rhydon typically plays as a better Nidoking. It's far stronger than Nidoking and the 4x weakness to Grass and Water isn't very relevant in the situations where you'd use them, while the better Attack, STAB Rock Slide, and access to Megahorn are absolute game changers in the department of reckless offense. I love Substitute 3 Attacks sets the most, but Stealth Rock 3 Attacks sets are more than serviceable as well.

- I was initially a Kingler doubter, but my team recommended it in a prior week and it ended up being one of the best mons that I found to pair with Mega Beedrill. Crabhammer is a stupendously powerful move, surpassing Mega Gyarados Waterfall levels of damage, and its decent physical bulk makes it a decent Ground-type switchin and general abuser of Stealth Rock; it also switches into Mega Aerodactyl once and puts on immense pressure when it does so, which is something Mega Beedrill teams greatly appreciate. Lastly, it has access to Agility to potentially act as a late-game cleaner, outpacing the entire tier at +2 Speed even with an Adamant nature. Maybe I'm overrating the crab a bit, but I've been pleasantly surprised by it.

- It's possible Muk deserves a bump up to Top Tier, but I don't really have enough experience with it to say, so I feel that Mid Tier is the most comfortable placing I can have for it. Here's what I do know; Muk is one of the better Mew switchins that the tier has, though it doesn't like Will-O-Wisp much, and it's probably one of tier's best general specially-defensive mons. It also does pretty well into Mega Venusaur since it resists both of its STABs, though of course Leech Seed is still problematic.

- Vaporeon's defining trait over other Water-types is being the best specially defensive wall of them all. Yawn is extremely annoying, but other than that it's the usual pair of Scald and Ice Beam, typically alongside a screen of choice.

:vensuaur: - Base Venusaur, baby. I think that in spite of the significant stat dropoff from Mega form to base form, Venusaur's ability to dominate every other Grass-types, spread sleep with Sleep Powder, and annoy the living daylights out of everything with Leech Seed allows it to remain ridiculously good. This is one of the main reasons why it's an effective Pokemon in double megas teams, alongside...

- Yup, base Aero comes in here as well. While base Aerodactyl doesn't pack nearly the level of power its Mega form does, it's still a fast Stealth Rocker that hits decently hard and pressures opposing Rock- and Ground-weak foes well.

- First off, I want to just mention a Dragonite set that I don't think had been seen before I used it week 2of the tournament; Substitute, Toxic, Fire Blast, and Roost. The goal of this set was to beat Melmetal and Mew, kind of like a scuffed Mega Charizard X, and it certainly did well enough into Melmetal to count in the game! More standard Agility sets are probably best on Dragonite, and Outrage is a peerlessly powerful move, but the fact that it duds completely into Melmetal is rough for your endgame sweeper and makes the more standard sweeper set's use cases extremely specific. It can be quite potent if used well, though, and I think that Dragonite's one of the Pokemon that has a lot more room for innovation for the enterprising trainer.

- Eggy Alola is on the verge of being low tier for me due to its quad weakness to ice and the fact that it's so slow, but Eggy has some factors going in its favor that make me end up placing it in the mid tier anyway. It's this tier's best user of Teleport since the move doesn't have dropped priority, and it's another Dragon-type that can threaten decent damage to Melmetal, meaning it can use Dragon Pulse fairly risk-free versus the rest of the tier, and having phasing in Dragon Tail means it can mess with its switch-ins as well. All in all, it's another decent mon at getting momentum for its team and switches well enough into Dugtrio and Electric-types.

- I don't know much about Clefable, so I'm just going to call it mid tier since it has Fire Blast to torch Melmetal and its special bulk is decent; its special bulk and offenses can also get boosted further by Calm Mind, making for solid two move coverage with Moonblast and Fire Blast. Just be careful around Muk and physical attackers, and you probably do well otherwise.

Low Tier - These are Pokemon that I feel are mostly outclassed in their role by something higher in the tier. Some of these I feel can be used effectively, but the difficulty in doing so makes me place them here; others I feel are just outright unviable or gimmick material.

Low Tier

- Nidoking does pretty much the same thing as Nidoqueen, except it's a little bit frailer and a little bit stronger. The frailty actually is pretty relevant, as it gets KO'd by Dugtrio's Earthquake from full after Zapdos's U-Turn while Nidoqueen isn't. It otherwise plays pretty similarly to Nidoqueen in most regards, though it can use its coverage to get a tad bit more aggressive if it wants to with its better offenses. I feel that its role is pretty much fully done better by Rhydon in spite of the difference in typing meaning that Rhydon switches into opposing Grass-types worse.

- Substitute lets Poliwrath make decent progress in theory, but you need too many moves to cover for potential switchins; Ice Punch hits Grass-types, Toxic hits Zapdos and Mew, and you really want both STABs as well. If it finds the right matchup, it can still do well though!

- Cloyster has extreme difficulty finding setup since its awful special bulk means that it's OHKO'd by every special attacker in the tier and even Rhydon isn't a viable setup target since Rock Slide OHKOs at -1 Defense. If you find the setup turn, Cloyster is amazing, but the difficulty in finding setup means I can't rate it any higher than this.

- I don't know much about Snorlax, but being a physical attacker in a tier where Melmetal is king is a tough life to live; being cleanly 2hko'd by Double Iron Bash while your best coverage for Melmetal in Fire Blast doesn't 2HKO back doesn't help matters, either. Lastly, even the special attackers it's tasked with taking on already often run tools to counteract it; Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are both extremely strong against Lax, and Reflect Zapdos positively demolishes it as well. Maybe there's some Snorlax technology I don't know about, but unfortunately at present I really don't see much of a reason to use it.

- Venomoth is great in theory since it has Quiver Dance, but unfortunately it's a completely dead team slot until the opposing Melmetal is dead and it can often struggle into foes like Zapdos, Gengar, and the Nido's as well. If you can somehow find a scenario where everything I've just mentioned is gone, you've actually got pretty decent odds for a Venomoth sweep; odds are though that any other mon in the 6th slot would've helped you accomplish that more reliably or would just finish the job more cleanly.

- Ridiculously physically frail, meaning that it has to be extremely careful about when it switches in. It does at least have tools to facilitate its own success with Encore, Substitute, and Disable but dedicating movesets to not get owned by physical attackers isn't ideal - especially when Melmetal does so well into it as well. I feel that Alakazam is decent in theory, but its extreme physical frailty make it specific at best and just outright bad at worst. There's a reason why it's UUBL and not OU by usage.

- I feel obligated to mention K-Dugtrio here since it's been used a couple times; it's faster than Alolan Duggy, which is a decent niche, but I think it's pretty much an overall downgrade since Alolan Duggy's typing is so much better.

- Mainly mentioning Yard here since you have the option mid battle to Mega Y as well. It's worth considering if you can prevent rocks from going up, since its Fire Blast is by far the strongest special attack in the tier, but in the vast majority of cases Xard is just going to be better; even if rocks aren't up, Xard's better typing into foes like Zapdos and Jolteon can often make it the better pick anyway. Worth considering in hyper-specific battle states (turn 18), but that's about it.

Some of this may have room for improvement, with a few mons on the Official VR missing and with some mons that I don't have as much experience with perhaps being rated low, but I think it's a decent representation of the meta if nothing else.

 

[Eve]

LGPE OU 2025 VR Update!​

Hi! Let's do this. If you qualify (AKA if you got tagged in this post), please either post your list here or DM it to me on Smogon or Discord (@cheempao). Either a written list or a Tiermaker graphic (or both!) are OK, though the former makes my life a little bit easier. Please make sure your VR is/could be represented as a numerical list, i.e.:
1) Mew
2) Melmetal
3) Zapdos...
If you provide a VR with ranks, it will be assumed that the Pokemon within those ranks are ordered by viability. If you can't decide how to rank certain Pokemon against each other, then just ordering them arbitrarily is absolutely fine. It is preferred that you rank only as many Pokemon as you consider viable- theory about whether Ditto or Dewgong is less awful isn't what we're looking for.

The following users qualify to contribute to this Viability Rankings update:

Criteria

• Won 3+ games of LGPE OU in LGPL I: Lily, LpZ, yone, Hayburner, igiveuponaname, 3d, airfare, BaitWiz, PandaDoux
• Top 8 of WORST Tour: Samu77, DerpySuX, Sabelette, GrimtheImpy, Indulge in dreams, Lily, wisper4, PhilosophicalPsychologica
• Active Council: This just adds me, other members already qualify.

Tag List

3d
BaitWiz
DerpySuX
Eve
GrimtheImpy
Hayburner
Indulge in dreams
Lily
LpZ
PandaDoux
PhilosophicalPsychologica
Sabelette
Samu77
airfare
igiveuponaname
wisper4
yone
17 Users total

Submissions will close in two weeks on Tuesday, 24th June. Please try and get them done before then if you intend to!
If you didn't qualify, feel free to still post your own VR in this thread.

 

[Eve]

Also gonna post my VR here, decent chance I adjust it before submissions are closed (feel free to adjust your own VRs btw, just let me know), but I'm fairly happy with this. I didn't rank anything I wouldn't consider one day bringing to a tournament, though admittedly "one day" is doing some heavy lifting in lower C/D.

Reasonings

S: The two Pokemon here don't need explanation. Could have gone either way on who gets #1, but Mew feels Nastier by the day.

A+: The clear #3 best Pokemon in the tier and the best Mega Evolution. Both absolutely need to be separated from the tier below, so here they are. Just wanna say that I love Agility Zapdos and think it's worth a try.

A: All three Mega Evolutions in this rank are incredible, but I think Mega Venusaur is the one that requires the most braincells to use which means it's the worst. Alolan Dugtrio is obviously incredible, basically always has been, and basically always will be- really fast Earthquake good, punishing Zapdos good. Also it can occasionally compress Stealth Rock for you in a discreet manner which is nice. Vaporeon is probably the first major change from previous VRs here- I think it's notably better than Starmie right now. Mini Mega Blastoise with really solid bulk, great power and coverage, and an absurd x-factor in Yawn that lets it force chains of switches, defeat opposing Waters that would otherwise sit at a standstill, and even halt Nasty Plot Mew's sweep in a pinch. Water is a really strong type in LGPE and Vaporeon is the most splashable one (har har).

A-: Rhydon is great. I think of it more like a Hoopa-Unbound than a bulky Ground- if you get it in safely, you're probably killing something, or coming extremely close at worst. This is what sets it apart from Alolan Dugtrio, who really wishes it had an attack stat sometimes. Of course, its ability to check most physical threats in a pinch, as well as thrashing Drill Peck Zapdos, is highly valuable. Starmie isn't the de facto Water anymore but it's still a fantastic Pokemon, and don't you forget it. Run Hydro Pump though, it needs it. Jolteon is only really established on one teamstyle (Zapdos Jolteon Blastoise) but it's absolutely incredible there, with that teamstyle having had thoroughly excellent performances in the most recent tournament. Substitute is a really cool new development that synergises amazingly with Jolteon's Speed and Yawn, but Reflect is still good.

B+: This is the subrank I struggled to order the most I think. Clefable is THE non-Mew Stealth Rock setter in LGPE OU, and is actually quite threatening with Fairy's incredible overall coverage backed up near-perfectly by Flamethrower and Thunder Wave. However, there's no reason to run it if you can afford to fit Stealth Rock on Mew or Alolan Dugtrio, and it can be counter-led quite easily if the opponent has Taunt Mew, Mega Beedrill, or Venusaur. Venusaur isn't talked about much but it's been doing incredible recently, with Mega Aerodactyl teams using it boasting some of the best winrates of all Mega Aerodactyl teams used in the latest tournament. Sleeping Mew or Melmetal and switching into every Water-type comfortably makes it a near-perfect Mega Aerodactyl teammate and I hope to see more of it- I think if this thing goes anywhere in the future, it's upwards. Gengar is intensely threatening but has negative defensive value except versus Venusaurs, making it a bit of a luxury pick- if you CAN afford it, though, it'll reward you handsomely.

B: Alolan Muk squares up solidly against basically any Special attacker in the tier while being incredibly difficult to switch into, Dark STAB is absurd in this metagame and Fire Blast + Mega Drain cover nicely for Melmetal and Rhydon. Can't help but wonder if this could be a paralysis abuser with that Speed stat, seems unexplored. Alolan Exeggutor is the best Pokemon in the metagame if you can click correctly and hit Dragon Tail, and mediocre if you can't. Both these Megas are... okay? Mega Gyarados is largely just worse than Mega Blastoise, but it's a fundamentally strong Pokemon despite that. IMO Mega Charizard X is pretty scary now that Wisp is being used instead of Dragon Tail, and I think Thunder Punch is another tool that needs to be explored more- when your most common answer is Vaporeon, the move that cleanly 2HKOes that becomes pretty good, and you only really need Fire Blast versus everything else you're likely to face. Regular Aerodactyl is the last Pokemon I consider OU at the moment, and just barely, but I think it's viable to not Mega Evolve Aerodactyl on AeroVenu teams and that it's a notably strong lead for Mega Charizard X teams- you don't need it to prevent Stealth Rock forever, just long enough to get your Mega Evolution off.

B-: These Pokemon aren't OU for me, but they're still usable. The Nidos are The Other Grounds, with Nidoqueen being as defensively sturdy as it gets versus all variants of Zapdos, and Nidoking having a versatile offensive toolkit and Taunt, as well as a Speed tier that puts it above the mid-Speed Mega Evolutions and Clefable. Both are flawed though, with Nidoqueen often requiring on-point play to be at all threatening, Nidoking being rather frail, and both having many pretty awful weaknesses. I've come around on Kingler a bit- I thought other Waters ruined it, but kinda forgot that Superpower shreds Vaporeon. My bad. This is basically just physical Vaporeon with Agility, which is notably worse than being Special Vaporeon with Yawn, but still plenty usable and has its own merit. Snorlax is here largely for legacy, bro has vanished but I am one of his stronger soldiers. Body Slam is a good move and I think the Reflect + Rest set is still very legitimate.

C: Mediocre mons. Maybe Alakazam will rise at some point, it has good traits but it hasn't had a breakout performance yet. Omastar is a way better Shell Smash sweeper than Cloyster, who I've elected to not even rank because I cannot conceive of a single viable team composition for it that wouldn't prefer something else (usually a Starmie). Oma needing the opposing team to be slow is infinitely more realistic than Cloyster needing the opposing team to have no Waters and also have Mew and Melmetal chipped and. Also Cloyster has like one safe setup opportunity in the entire tier which is Alolan Dugtrio, and even that relies on avoiding a Rock Slide flinch. Electrode does the good utility clicks it's annoying. Dugtrio is faster than Starmie but that matters less rn, it's faster than Modest Jolteon though which is something? Alolan Persian is sorta like Electrode but the Foul Play does damage and it pivots, mid choice for Bee teams but a choice nonetheless. Poliwrath is still defensively nice as ever but it really struggles to Do Anything, while Vaporeon and Kingler don't. The next four are mostly Potential Man and all probably could be solid if you cook hard enough thanks to their unique attributes (Cleric, Quiver Dance, Agility, and Mass Murder respectively), I could imagine any of them raising in public perception with time. Mega Charizard Y is only ranked because it's a thing you can use for free if you're running Mega Charizard X and sometimes it's worth it.

 

[Sabelette]

Only ranking guys I've actually used in an LGPE OU match before (or at least in meaningful practice), everything under B is very scout/team dependent

Not gonna go super in depth but I'll talk about a few placements:

Mew: only gets better and better, people are too narrow-minded about possible sets here even if some things I've tried have been overcooking. Having only 1-2 Mew sets you run is a good way to get exploited. I'm not talking about dramatic set changes but like, there's more out there than PsyTurn and FlameTox, even if I use both frequently
Vap/Jolt: Vaporeon moves up a lot in my estimation for not having Starmie's extra weaknesses from the dual type, in this era of LGPE its just a good one-time check to near-anything and in some spots it's horribly painful to switch into. Jolteon has more tech to it than people have thought, I'd have it above Vap if not for it contributing even more to the problem of "yet another frail EQ-weak"
Starmie: Still farms the vast majority of teams people like building with only Mew serving as sort-of a check, and even then good luck switching in after mild chip. Held back a lot by the Bug/Dark weaknesses but even so I think its one of the most forcing Pokemon in the game
Gengar: I might be known for Gengar shenanigans but it's so hard to run yet another guy that gets farmed by Aerodactyl these days. Into anything bar Aero/Bee it's murderous but vs those teams you get one entry then have to sack something
Aerodactyl: Regular form still has a surprising amount going for it with the main downside being "you're not using the best Mega in the game" but being able to outrun and nuke Dugtrio/Jolteon/Gengar or just force some decent damage with a Pokemon that can also set and deny rocks while keeping your mega slot free, IDK I don't think it's that bad
Exeggutor-Alola: demonic into the right scout, total flop into the wrong ones, it gets to go this high because when it hits those scouts it's nearly unplayable for the opponent
Kingler: I actually really like this guy especially as Aerodactyl runs more and more Wing Attack, but I mean it's Kingler, it has obvious weaknesses. It's down here for being scout-dependent but when it hits the right scout it mauls
Charizard-Mega-X: Surprisingly I've warmed up on this guy and even Mega-Y after trying them out. Still niche but into the right teams they're scary, though the Rock weakness especially stings. It's definitely in the realm of "Pokemon you will never have to use, ever, but once in a while you might see a team exploitable by it"

Ordered list for Eve

1. Mew
2. Melmetal
3. Zapdos
4. Aerodactyl-Mega
5. Starmie
6. Vaporeon
7. Jolteon
8. Blastoise-Mega
9. Beedrill-Mega
10. Dugtrio-Alola
11. Clefable
12. Venusaur-Mega
13. Gengar
14. Rhydon
15. Venusaur
16. Aerodactyl
17. Muk-Alola
18. Gyarados-Mega
19. Exeggutor-Alola
20. Poliwrath
21. Kingler
22. Nidoqueen
23. Alakazam
24. Charizard-Mega-X
25. Snorlax
26. Eevee-Partner
27. Omastar
28. Dugtrio
29. Blastoise
30. Gyarados
31. Charizard-Mega-Y
32. Sandslash

 

[GrimtheImpy]

All the mons I have ranked
Just for clarity
When I say I am ranking them left to right
Mew is #1 Melmetal is #2
Dos is #3 and so on.
Anyways I am gonna continue waiting in line for Rise of the Resistance in Disney as of writing this message.

 

[igiveuponaname]

I don't care enough to explain any of this apart from two things

1. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are tied for 6th, Mega is obviously better in a vacuum but regular's stats are still more than good enough to function and it lets you run another Mega without much worry. If that's too much of an issue and they need to ordered separately just flip a coin or something to decide which is higher idk.
2. Vaporeon is overrated and the main thing stopping me from putting it in B is the fact that slow Yawn with hazards up is such a stupid catch-22 in a tier with no removal whatsoever.

That's all. Goodnight, goodnight.

 

[leoperi]

I know i dindt qualify still i tried to keep short my vr bc i dindt rly wanna bother mons below uu bc idt none of them deserve a rise and im kinda unsure on how i would rank them precisely but also i dont like alot doing + or - i think ends up being pointless when i can just say a mon is high or low in said ranking anyways heres my vr i can explain on the lgpe cord if you have any questions regarding my rankings . i did rank mpidgey but thats bc i still have some small faith on them...

 

[PandaDoux]

I haven't played it in a while but this is pretty much how i've felt through multiple metagames so i wouldn't expect it to change that much even if i played recently.

I genuinely think sleep is broken in this tier, just look at Eve's post saying vaporeon can force chain switches just by clicking yawn which sounds completely unhealthy and stupid, sleep does not contribute in any healthy way to the tier, we should just get rid of it. Other than that the tier is very balanced and fun imo

 

[Hayburner]

 

[BaitWiz]

S

1) Mew
2) Melmetal

A+

3) Zapdos
4) Mega Venusaur
5) Mega Blastoise
6) Mega Aerodactyl
7) Dugtrio-Alola

A

8) Starmie
9) Mega Beedrill
10) Gengar
11) Venusaur
12) Aerodactyl
13) Nidoqueen
14) Rhydon
15) Dragonite

B+

16) Vaporeon
17) Jolteon
18) Mega Charizard X
19) Nidoking
20) Exeggutor-Alola
21) Muk-Alola

B

22) Mega Gyarados
23) Kingler
24) Poliwrath
25) Sandslash

C

26) Blastoise
27) Venomoth
28) Cloyster
29) Electrode
30) Dugtrio
99) Mega Charizard Y

On the topic of Dragonite - I rate Dragonite far higher than I think every single other person who's made a VR so far, so I feel like I should explain my reasoning for that at least. Dragonite is blessed with several amazing tools that imo make it quite potent within the metagame; it can legit threaten everything in the tier with the combination of Toxic and Fire Blast (the latter of which 2hko's Melly and can 2hko Mega Venusaur), it has reliable recovery in Roost, and Outrage does amazing damage to everything in the tier except Clefable (which I think is pretty meh) and Melmetal (who I already mentioned gets 2hko'd by Fire Blast). Dragonite also has a bevy of coverage options to hit most foes in the tier hard; Dragon Tail does decent damage and is great for phasing in a tier completely lacking removal, EQ is absolutely nuclear against the likes of Muk-Alola and the Nidos, TPunch slams water switchins like Vaporeon and Starmie, and I imagine other options like Waterfall, Facade, and Aqua Jet can find niches as well. Substitute/Roost 2 Attacks is one of the most potent breakers in the tier and Roost 3 Attacks or just straight up AoA is pretty good as well - it's kind of wild to me that more people don't feel this way, but maybe I'm just a weirdo when it comes to Dragonite.

You can refer to my previous post for my thoughts on most other mons. I've intentionally left some mons off of the proper tier list that I think still belong on it since I haven't really played with them. The list of all those mons is below with my rough tier placement, and I want to make it explicitly clear that I rate them as being part of the VR still, just not sure where. In a perfect world I'd just take the average of all other voters and just make that my vote for each of these, but if that isn't possible just treat them as being at the bottom of B and C tier (above Yard), respectively.

Mid: Clefable
Low: Alakazam, Partner Eevee, Snorlax

 

[Eve]

Without further ado...

LGPE OU Viability Rankings 2025

S1:
S2:
S3:
A1:
A2:
A3:
B1:
B2:

C1:
C2:
D1:
D2:

Pokemon ranked B2 and above give us our new OU list. Here are the resulting tier changes:

Snorlax fell from OU to UU
Poliwrath fell from OU to UU
Nidoking fell from OU to UU
Cloyster fell from OU to UU

10 participants took part in these rankings. If you're interested, check the spoiler below for information on how this VR was compiled.

Nerdy Stuff

In order to prevent any one person's unconventional rankings from having too strong a sway on the rankings, the highest and lowest rankings of each Pokemon were removed, unless more than one person provided those rankings. Additionally, Pokemon that weren't ranked by at least a third of all participants were excluded from the final rankings- this once again helps to ensure the reliability of the data.

Numerical Rankings

1  | Mew (1)
2  | Melmetal (2)
3  | Zapdos (3.11)
4  | Aerodactyl-Mega (4.13)
5  | Blastoise-Mega (6.33)
6  | Dugtrio-Alola (6.75)
7  | Venusaur-Mega (7.88)
8  | Starmie (8.22)
9  | Beedrill-Mega (9.5)
10 | Vaporeon (11.25)
11 | Rhydon (11.75)
12 | Gengar (12.4)
13 | Jolteon (12.78)
14 | Clefable (13.14)
15 | Venusaur (13.71)
16 | Charizard-Mega-X (16.44)
17 | Muk-Alola (16.63)
18 | Gyarados-Mega (17.88)
19 | Exeggutor-Alola (18.33)
20 | Aerodactyl (18.33)
21 | Nidoqueen (19)
22 | Kingler (22.33)
23 | Snorlax (23.43)
24 | Poliwrath (23.71)
25 | Nidoking (24.8)
26 | Alakazam (25)
27 | Dragonite (27)
28 | Cloyster (27)
29 | Eevee-Starter (27.17)
30 | Electrode (28)
31 | Omastar (28.75)
32 | Dugtrio (29)
33 | Charizard-Mega-Y (32)
34 | Venomoth (32.75)

In my spare time recently I decided to try and create a minimalist version of Vapicuno's data-driven tiering system in Google Sheets, which I'd say has been a successful venture. Much of the logic carries over, though in this case I decided to directly define tiers through the dissimilarity matrix:

Each cell in this table represents how similarly Pokemon are ranked against each other. If everyone considers one Pokemon better than the other, the corresponding cell is white (1)- if there's a 50/50 split in consensus, the cell is black (0). I decided that tiers would be defined by setting an arbitrary threshold value, then comparing it against the average value of all cells in square ranges of increasing sizes- if a square's average value passes the threshold value, then we select the previous square size to be our tier size. To put it more simply, we want to make sure the squares here are really densely packed with dark cells. The separation between different letters was roughly defined by eyeballing large clusters that surround the separate tiers, with the exception of the S tiers, which are separated due to how clearly they stand out above the rest.

This method, however, isn't exactly perfect- it's a good starting point, but some common-sense changes had to be made. Said changes are as follows:

• Mew and Melmetal would, by all statistical measures, be in individual tiers- however, popular consensus is that there is hardly any discrepancy between their viability, even if Mew is the more potent of the two, and as such they have been grouped. I did not group Zapdos and Mega Aerodactyl, as there is a less established consensus there- feel free to consider them grouped too if you wish.
• Mega Charizard X was initially grouped into A2, but its numerical average ranking is way out of line with that category and extremely close to Pokemon in B1, so I moved it down.
• Eevee was initially included in C2, but visually fits more intuitively with D1 (imo). Not exactly a big deal either way, so feel free to consider Eevee C2 if you're passionate about it.

 

[Samu77]

You win this round, Alo-Exeggutor, but I'll be back to send you down to UU where you belong.