Legendless v2.0 (OU)

[Simon The Digger]

All right, my previous "legendless" team got flamed to no end, so after a couple weeks of testing, this is Legendless v 2.0 (obviously, i try to avoid legendaries, no matter how tempting)

Aerodactyl (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Okay, since lead gliscor was too slow, I switched him for all out speed with aerodactyl. The game plan is pretty much what you'd expect: taunt, sr, attack. Rock slide for accuracy and flinch rate, not much else to say.

---
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed
Physical lategame sweeper. I gave lucario crunch because it is all-around general coverage. Main threats are hippowdon, gliscor, gyarados and salamence (all of whom are taken out by others, more on that later). The moveset is a bit obvious, but the first three moves are standard for this set, while crunch beats the ghosts (rotom, gengar, etc) that are immune to the other moves.


---
Jolteon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This is insanely good, no idea why nobody uses it. When I bring him out (typically early), I start with Charge Beam to see what the opponent does. If they switch to Blissey, it actually helps me, as charge beam has a free shot. When necessary, baton pass is a "get out of being destroyed by ground types free" card or a boost pass to the other special attackers. Hidden Power Ice is for better two-move coverage. His most important role though is killing gyarados.
---
Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 84 Atk/212 Spd/212 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Outrage
Okay, i have high hopes for him, so don't let me down salamence! The goal here is to attack, attack, attack, and do as much damage with the dual stab as possible. The moves and nature are fairly obvious, though i gave him a bit extra speed to outrun other mixmences.
---
Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Ability:Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid nature (+speed, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
The only thing stopping gyarados and Salamence. Surf, BoltBeam, and Psychic hit everything but shedinja(lol). Psychic is because gengar is dangerous to my team.
---

Heatran (M) @ Choice scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
naive nature (+Speed, -Sdef)
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earth Power
- Explosion
The one legend on my team is a vital one, as he resists almost everything that beats my two sweepers. Flamethrower for accuracy, earthpower for other heatran and tyranitar, hidden power grass for swampert, and explosion for blissey. naive over timid to power up explosion somewhat.

So there you have it. This team is easily my best ever, as my record is improving slowly (don't get on shoddy much) but surely. Overall, my goal is to have a sd lucario or charge beam'd jolteon sweep, with mence wallbreaking, and starmie and heatran revenge killing.
Thanks for reviewing in advance,
Tactician1016
---

 

[Styx]

Ok this is my analysis..,

The first suggestion i would make is that Salamence is just as good or Better than dragonite

Dragonite (M) @ Choice Scarf !!!!!!Choice scarf limits the ability to be a mixed attacker. and he needs the scarf because of his low base speed.... well
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 228 Atk/176 Spd/104 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
Salamance could easily fix that and cover your fire weakness for magmorter.... which you will see how salamence will blend well with another mixed attack later on
(Ill take the one from my team for example)

Standard Smogon Salamence

Salamence (F) @ Life Orb ** Sakroth
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 42 Atk / 252 Spd / 216 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Outrage

When you break it down he has
316attack
328Speed
310Special Attack makeing him one of the most deadly Mixed attackers in the game

He doesnt need scarf because his base speed is already 322... enough to outspeed just about anything except a few speedy pokes...IF They pull out steels use flamethrower or equake... and outrage in last situation usually agaisnt other salamences,garchomps,Dragonknites.(WHO I always kill unless there scarfed) without a +Speed nature

Last thing is

Magmortar (M) @ Choice Specs !!!
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

A Good Special Attacker for your team to replace magmorter But keep good balance with your team ecspecially with salamence is Choice spec gengar... Because he has levitate right as theyre going to equake pull this bad boy out and fire away with base speed of 350 and a whooping 550 special attack hell OHKO 2HKO just about anything..

Gengar (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Energy Ball

Just use whats every super effective good luck and i hope these suggestions helped =)

 

[Simon The Digger]

I don't want to replace dragonite, he is my secret weapon, and the reason i use him over salamence is for movepool (i.e., boltbeam and superpower). He partners perfectly with lucario and jolteon to remove their counters. Gengar is an interesting idea though, i'll check it out (though i was kind of looking for a bulky pokemon in that spot (something defensive).

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Magmortar is in my opinion outclassed by Heatran. Although Heatran does not have the vast movepool of Magmortar, it boasts a steel typing along with its' fire typing, so it takes neutral damage (12%) from SR. Magmortar will take 25% from SR. Also, Magmortar cannot be switched into nearly any attacks due to its' low amount of resistances. On the other hand, Heatran can easily switch into 11 different types of attacks and provide a resistance. Plus, with Lucario being your only steel, Salamence can go apeshit on your team. It dragon dances on the switch, kills your Lucario with EQ and then outrages, OHKing or 2KOing your entire team. So, having another steel to resist outrage after it does that on Dragonite would be nice. However, you can also opt to change Dragonite to a scarfed Starmie to clear out other sweepers like Gyarados which would otherwise harm your team quite badly. Starmie learns the coveted bolt-beam combo which you want to keep.

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4HP
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Trick/Grass Knot/Psychic

OR you could make it a Choice Scarf Latias

Latias @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid/Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Trick OR Ice Beam if you still want the bolt-beam combo.

Both of these do not take 25% from SR, and really do outclass Dragonite. If Dragonite wasn't scarfed, then it would be better due to its' ability to semi-effectively become a mixed attacker and wallbreaker, but that versatility is lost with a choice item.

This is the set for Heatran that I would advise over Magmortar

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-HP Ice
-Explosion


Oh, and just so you know. I read the part about not using legendaries, so please don't think I don't know that. I'm just trying to make you an actually competitive battler instead of a "I won't use legends" kind of new player. If you want to, I will debate this with you using edits so I can prove to you why using legendaries is a very sensible idea in all tiers.

EDIT: Ignore Styx. I can tell by his Gengar set he has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Simon The Digger]

Magmortar is in my opinion outclassed by Heatran. Although Heatran does not have the vast movepool of Magmortar, it boasts a steel typing along with its' fire typing, so it takes neutral damage (12%) from SR. Magmortar will take 25% from SR. Also, Magmortar cannot be switched into nearly any attacks due to its' low amount of resistances. On the other hand, Heatran can easily switch into 11 different types of attacks and provide a resistance. Plus, with Lucario being your only steel, Salamence can go apeshit on your team. It dragon dances on the switch, kills your Lucario with EQ and then outrages, OHKing or 2KOing your entire team. So, having another steel to resist outrage after it does that on Dragonite would be nice. However, you can also opt to change Dragonite to a scarfed Starmie to clear out other sweepers like Gyarados which would otherwise harm your team quite badly. Starmie learns the coveted bolt-beam combo which you want to keep.

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4HP
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Trick/Grass Knot/Psychic

OR you could make it a Choice Scarf Latias

Latias @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid/Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Trick OR Ice Beam if you still want the bolt-beam combo.

Both of these do not take 25% from SR, and really do outclass Dragonite. If Dragonite wasn't scarfed, then it would be better due to its' ability to semi-effectively become a mixed attacker and wallbreaker, but that versatility is lost with a choice item.

This is the set for Heatran that I would advise over Magmortar

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-HP Ice
-Explosion


Oh, and just so you know. I read the part about not using legendaries, so please don't think I don't know that. I'm just trying to make you an actually competitive battler instead of a "I won't use legends" kind of new player. If you want to, I will debate this with you using edits so I can prove to you why using legendaries is a very sensible idea in all tiers.

I'm not a new player, I just don't like using legendaries. I know it's a "very sensible idea" in all tiers (uber is 95% legendaries), but i enjoy giving myself little challenges, like a no-legendaries team, and seeing how well i do. As for the specifics you mentioned:
I have noticed difficulties with mence, but i can usually survive with vaporeon (toxic, wish, protect, repeat).
I like starmie, but i don't want a second water type
Latias is nice, but dragonite's appeal is as a wallbreaker and revenge killer
Heatran is where i would waver. I'll consider it, although another scarf set does not help me.
My final reasoning is that this is also for wifi and bulbagarden's IGPL. In the IGPL, legendaries are banned (don't ask me why).

 

[Oddish On Fire]

I'm not a new player, I just don't like using legendaries. I know it's a "very sensible idea" in all tiers (uber is 95% legendaries), but i enjoy giving myself little challenges, like a no-legendaries team, and seeing how well i do. As for the specifics you mentioned:
I have noticed difficulties with mence, but i can usually survive with vaporeon (toxic, wish, protect, repeat).
I like starmie, but i don't want a second water type
Latias is nice, but dragonite's appeal is as a wallbreaker and revenge killer
Heatran is where i would waver. I'll consider it, although another scarf set does not help me.
My final reasoning is that this is also for wifi and bulbagarden's IGPL. In the IGPL, legendaries are banned (don't ask me why).

If you really want to keep the mixdragonite, then you should at least take the scarf off and give it LO, or switch to Dragonite. Wallbreaking is nearly impossible with a scarf because wallbreaking focuses on them switching to a counter (the wall) and then you hitting it off-guard with the opposite type of its' defenses. With a choice item, they switch to the wall, and you're still stuck in a move. With proper prediction, a team can easily work around a choiced Dragonite. Also, if you're slightly open to replacing Magmortar with Heatran, please do! You'll still only have 2 choiced pokes. (1 if you take the scarf off of Dragonite) Once again, the main reason for using Heatran over Magmortar is its' plethora of resistances, which make switching in a breeze. With Magmortar, you'll lose 25% of your health from switching in, and a much larger portion from the enemy's attack.

 

[Simon The Digger]

The key with the scarf is the surprise factor, as is the case with boltbeam. When i bring him in on a gliscor who has switched in on lucario, he thinks he can outspeed and (depending on the moves) 1/2hko. Ice beam with scarf here would take down gliscor without taking a hit.
So sorry, but not changing scarfnite.
Thanks for the help though, i'm working on a heatran now.

 

[Jikos]

Gengar does not need Sludge Bomb or Energy Ball. Sludge Bomb offers horrible coverage and should be replaced with Shadow Ball. I would replace Energy Ball with Thunderbolt too.

As an anti-lead, Infernape does a much better job than Gliscor. This set beats every lead except Swampert and Hippowdon and opposing Infernape:

Infernape@Focus Sash
252 Atk/36 SpA/220 Spe/Naughty(+Atk,-SpD)
Fake Out
Close Combat
Overheat
Stealth Rock

 

[VaderPhish]

To add an image, you can click the button in the posting thing that looks like a mountain and the sun above it and then type in the URL. This team seems much better than your first one, since apparently the first one was in the Trou de Cul.

As Jikos suggested, you can use the anti lead Infernape, though i do understand your concern about the enemy laying down stealth rock. You have to decided wether you want improved phazing (Gliscor) or stall breaking from the begining (Infernape). If you go with infernape, you may want to change Over Heat to Fire Blast. Fire Blast only has 20 less base power, and does not come with a 2 stage sp.atk drop. Additionally, if you manage to get Blaze in, the damage output from Fire Blast will be insane.

 

[Simon The Digger]

thanks, i tried tran, but he failed miserably...

 

[Oddish On Fire]

I too disagree with using a lead-ape. It's outdated, and in the current meta-game, it's raped quite hard. Also, just some advice on your layout since you asked for help on that; I would put the sprites next to eachother for the team at a glance and then use larger pictures above the individual pokemon's section. It will make a very pretty RMT :D

 

[Simon The Digger]

well, now my team seems to be falling apart. Gliscor can't do much as a lead, lucario is getting destroyed, jolteon can't hurt anything today, magmortar just sucks, and scarfnite is too weak even to 1hko skarmory. Vaporeon is my only good pokemon. Help me, i know the team has potential, but it's not working.
The idea of the team was a lucario or jolteon sweep, but rarely do they sweep; dragonite can't wallbreak to save my life. and the supporters don't have much chances to support. I' need help please...

 

[beastzero13]

If u really want to prevent Stealth Rock u can use Aerodactyl@focus sash to make sure Stealth Rock doesn't go up and assure u put Stealth Rock up. You taunt first turn to prevent Stealth Rock and then put up Stealth Rock and attack if necessary. The only problem would be it doesn't really contribute to the team other than Stealth Rock prevention and putting Stealth Rock up, but if you really want to prevent Stealth Rock its an option and may be worth play testing. I'd suggest a 4HP/ 252Atk/ 252Spd Ev set with a jolly nature the moves: taunt, Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Rock Slide/ Stone Edge. for the last slot pick stone edge for power and Rock slide for accuracy. I'd suggest Rock Slide because Aerodactyl is powerful enough with rock slide as its stab and it cant afford to miss stone edge. If you do use Aerodactyl watch out for priority users as Aerodactyl can only rarely withstand attacks it resists. Also Aerodactyl is a very powerful and fast revenge killer if u manage to keep it alive. Ice fang can be used over earthquake for salamance and gliscor but im pretty sure STAB rock slide also ohkos dragonite

Edits in blue
Definitely use Latias or Salamance over Dragonite. Or try giving dragonite a physical version of bolt-beam with ice punch/thunder punch and giving it choice band, however the speed drop could be a huge problem. All in all dragonite is a good pokemon but it is very outclassed by its dragon brothers, Salamance for physical and Latias for special. I'd suggest Specs Latias as your team is very physically based and can be walled by strong physically defensive pokemon and bulky waters.

Also your team has huge weakness to Swampert as magmortar is the only thing that can really hurt it and finding a switch-in for magmortar will be tough. You might even go so far as to use starmie over dragonite as it can revenge kill like Little Mc's set or a more supportive set utilizing rapid spin, bolt/beam, and surf for great coverage. You can drop ice beam for recover if u want. Besides having two water types is never a problem if they both work well with the team and can provide surprises when the other team thinks they have eliminated your only bulky water.
You might wanna just drop Vaporean for Starmie if you can deal without wish support.

Finally Electivire might be a better choice over jolteon as it gets a better boost from switching into electric attacks and performs better in the current metagame. Plus works well if u have two water types as it can definitely utilize the attracted electric attacks.

 

[Silent Storm]

Look at the Dragonite analysis if you want an effective wallbreaker, I am sorry if I sound harsh here but you aren't breaking shit with scarfnite, go with the wall breaking set on the analysis, you lose speed yes but you gain a powerful wallbreaker with decent stats that can sweep teams (I recall winning most of my matches using that Dragonite back during the Latios test).

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonite

If you are really worried about speed though then use this Salamence.

4 Attack/252 Special Attack/252 Speed
Naive - Life Orb
Draco Meteor
Brick Break
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Roost

This is like the Wallbreaker Dragonite set, they both do the same things but Dragonite has Thunderbolt and Superpower while Salamence has a better ability, better speed and special attack. For raw power alone though I would go with Dragonite thanks to superpower but mixmence fucks so much shit up it is not even funny, Draco Meteor will kill shit, a BB 2HKOs Blissey and Fire Blast kills Skarmory. If you really want to kill stuff with then use Outrage over Roost and Earthquake over BB wth 16 Attack/240 Special Attack/252 Speed, 2HKOs Blissey at the cost of recovery but can also kill shit with Outrage and Earthquake.

 

[beastzero13]

My final reasoning is that this is also for wifi and bulbagarden's IGPL. In the IGPL, legendaries are banned (don't ask me why).

hes not talking about smogon but a "server" where legendaries are banned regardless of ability.

But on smogon i tottally agree on using legendaries. (its just that none of them fit in with my regular team.)

 

[Simon The Digger]

okay, i switched gliscor for aerodactyl, and dragonite for salamence (see first post). I was originally trying to make a balanced team, but now it's leaning toward offensive again. Should I switch anything else?

 

[Simon The Digger]

Okay, THAT didn't work. I may need to rethink this team... Ideas anyone?

 

[Silent Storm]

Common MixMence sets today run max speed with Naive nature, which boost speeds, I don't see how your set can outspeed those MixMence when you not even using a nature that boosts speed plus you did not even max out speed in your spread. The moveset you are using works best with the nature and EV spread I suggested because then you have the speed to score some key KOs with Draco Meteor, Earthquake and Fire Blast.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

You still have a massive DD Gyara weak and huge DD Mence weak...

Right now switching Vaporeon to a choice scarf Starmie sounds very reasonable in order to stop them. If you don't like the sound of that, then I would replace it with a Porygon2, because as we all know, Pory2 is the best check to Mence and Gary. However, Starmie does provide more than Pory2 offensively.

Without trading a pokemon out with a counter, they can OHK everything you have.

And still...replace Magmortar with Heatran, as Magmortar is just begging to get raped.

Also, if you want more power on your Jolteon, I would advise giving it choice specs.

 

[Simon The Digger]

Okay, starmie and heatran it is.

 

[musiquev24]

Definitely use Latias or Salamance over Dragonite. Or try giving dragonite a physical version of bolt-beam with ice punch/thunder punch and giving it choice band, however the speed drop could be a huge problem. All in all dragonite is a good pokemon but it is very outclassed by its dragon brothers, Salamance for physical and Latias for special.

Please don't ever say Dragonite is outclassed by Salamence, or even Latias (Latias and Dragonite are very different). The following link is an awesome thread about how he is not outclassed.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51407

Okay, now with the team.

I don't see what Aerodactyl is doing for you. Aerodactyl is a suicide pokemon for a suicide team, and your team does not look like a suicide team. Aerodactyl's usual way of playing is stop the enemy from setting up rocks, Aero sets up his own rocks, and then he dies. I'm sure if you've used him then even you'd know that's usually how it goes because Aerodactyl is so frail. However, I don't see any point in having a rock setter that dies so easily without even having a ghost on your team to block the spin! As soon as Aero is gone, the enemy team can send in a Rapid Spinner (if they have one) and spin the rocks away for the rest of the battle. So, I suggest Metagross.

Metagross @ Occa Berry / Lum Berry
Adamant
252 Hp / 232 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
~Stealth Rock
~Meteor Mash
~Bullet Punch
~Explosion

Why do I suggest Metagross? No one on your team can really take a powerful hit except Vaporeon (maybe Salamence after switching into a physical hit). Metagross hits hard and has a lot of bulk to him. While he's actually behind a few months (and by that I mean he was being used to counter other leads and now people are using leads to counter him), he still is almost guaranteed to get Stealth Rock set up and stick around for a while to counter other threats. Meteor Mash hits hard and gives you something against Latias (something that gives your team a lot of problems), and he has a priorty move which can be invaluble late game and against sash leads. Lastly he has Explosion, which can get you out of many 'Oh S***' situations, or just take out/greatly hurt a non Ghost Pokemon before he dies. While explosion will get of Metagross, your SR user, you will at least (hopefully) take a pokemon with you, to make up for it.

I really think Vaporeon needs to change to something that will better help your offensively inclined team. As others recommended, Choice Scarf Starmie I think will do good for your team in place of Vaporeon, the same one that litlmc posted. He still counters Mixape, plus you now have a check to DD Salamence (He risks being OHKO'd if he stays in or he does infact die if he's locked into outrage) as even if you force him to switch out, you've now gotten that much further to defeating him assuming you have stealth rock on the field. Choice Scarf Starmie is also a more reliable counter to Gyarados than Jolteon, as a Max Speed Jolly Gyarados with one DD outspeeds your Jolteon.

Speaking of Jolteon, your Jolteon set is basically a weaker SubPasser set. Its not used more often because boosting sweepers generally need to be able to take at least one hit, and that is something Jolteon cannot do, and it is better left in the hands of Rotom-A for example. It makes no sense to run both Charge Beam and Thunderbolt in the same set, as a +1 Charge beam hits as hard as an unboosted Thunderbolt. You lose coverage/support moves by running both of those Electric moves. I suggest you exchange one of them for Substitute. You can then Baton Pass Substitutes to other members of your team to help them start a sweep or to help them set up (especially for Salamence/Dragonite, since they are immune to ground, Jolteon's one weakness). If you do stay with Charge Beam, you can then pass a +1 SpA boosts to your teammates as well. I also think you should change HP Ice to HP Grass, so you then have at least something to threaten with Swampert (who otherwise gives your team a lot of trouble).

While I know you are avoiding legendaries, you really should consider changing Magmortar to a Choice Scarf/Specs Heatran, the same one litlmc recommended. Heatran really outclasses Magmortar in every way, and even as you said, I don't know what Magmortar is doing for you. In the defense of Heatran being a legendary, he is kind of a pseudo legendary (he is allowed in Battle Tower!) I know you said earlier in your post that you were making a team for IPGL, so I understand. However, I don't know what you want out of Magmortar/your last slot pokemon, and I already feel like I have attempted to change your team too much by suggesting you completely change two pokemon, so I think you should think up a pokemon for your last slot if you think that Magmortar isn't doing you any good.

With your current team, and even if you make the change from Aerodactyl to Metagross, you still have a bit of a ground weakness on your team. Since you currently have Magmortar as a sweeper/wallbreaker, and you feel thats the kind of pokemon you want to remain in that slot, I suggest you get a sweeper that is resistant to/immune to Ground. Gengar, Gyarados, and Azelf are examples of what could work instead in that spot.

As for the Dragonite/Salamence ordeal, both of them are great, you should look at which one is going to help your team more. If you don't know, I suggest reading the thread I posted earlier in this reply to help you decide (actually recommend you read it regardless!)

I hope this helps you out!

edit: wow this took me a long time to type. I started before you posted your latest reply about your switches. Sorry! I hope my huge reply helps you out some way anyway.

 

[Simon The Digger]

I've decided to make a new team. Can someone close this thread? This team is not doing nearly as well as I had hoped. Thanks for all the help, and my new team will be posted at Noon.

 

[Taylor]

I've decided to make a new team. Can someone close this thread? This team is not doing nearly as well as I had hoped. Thanks for all the help, and my new team will be posted at Noon.

No, it will not. Read the RMT rules. You have to wait several weeks before posting another RMT.

 

[Simon The Digger]

Oh, sorry. Okay, i'll wait a couple weeks and refine the team.

 

[TAY]

Locked at OP's request.