kissing cousins

[havoc]

caution tl;dr

I'm posting this on Mother's Day. Today I went to my grandmother's house where our whole family got together to have a barbeque to celebrate the holiday and especially my grandmother, who has been a second mom to just about everybody in our family, especially me. I consider her to be just as much a mom as her daughter, my actual mother.

The previous day I had attended my girlfriend's high school graduation. Graduating with my girlfriend was a girl that I had kind of dated for a little while a year or so ago--we had broken up shortly thereafter because her parents strongly disapproved of her dating a guy older than she (I'm 2 years older than both her and my current girlfriend), which was whatever, but for a while after that we had kind of seen each other when the opportunity presented itself. So basically things kind of faded off between this girl and I, but we still keep in touch as friends.

Well, my grandmother was talking to me about the graduation and mentioned her sister (my great aunt) was also there. I asked who she was there to see, and my grandmother said that her granddaughter (who would be my second cousin) was graduating.

After asking who the second cousin was, it turns out that the girl I had dated a year ago and the second cousin (I never knew I had) graduating...were one and the same girl.

I have been thinking about this all day and most of tonight. Now I mean, we never had sex or anything like that. The romantic part of that is ancient history (I have a girlfriend, she has a boyfriend, etc. etc.). I don't think it "counts" since we didn't know, etc. But at one point, we had feelings for each other, and if the parents hadn't intervened (her biological dad, who I'm related to her through, died some time ago), who knows how long we would have dated--maybe even through today. This girl and I are just friends and everything's cool, but you look at friends differently than you look at family, at least I do, ESPECIALLY someone that you've ever been evenly mildly interested in romantically/sexually.

Usually I hate "what if" questions since I find a lot of them a waste of time, but I really started to think about this and want to see what people think about this. What would you do if YOU were dating a girl/guy for a while, fall in love or whatever, really liked her, but then found out that you two are related? I'm sure a lot of people would say "oh I'd end it IMMEDIATELY wtf that's gross," but seriously think about it.

What would you do in that situation? I know that direct incest (brother-sister) over generations can lead to mutations or whatever, but how far up the tree does that go? I don't know about other states, but in Louisiana, first cousin marriage is banned, but anything farther up the family tree is fine. I'd imagine since Louisiana is a hick state, other states would probably extend the ban further.

As I said earlier, we tend to view family in a different way than we do everyone else. There's a different kind of love we have for our moms than we do for our girlfriends/boyfriends, obviously. And once you view someone as "family" or "not family" that label tends to stick for the most part. It's not difficult to view someone you're lifelong friends with as "family" even when they're not blood-related because in many ways the "love" is the same type. Going from one kind of "love" to another, though, is rare and generally a struggle.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: where does the line get drawn morally? Especially if neither of you knew until, say, you go to sign the marriage license and you find out that you couldn't marry the person you wanted to due to a relation you didn't know you had?

 

[Phadunk]

I've actually made out with a second or third cousin. So i know what you're saying. We didn't even know we were related. I thought she was a friend of the family or something. But yeah, the whole "cousin" part really makes you weary of everything. So of course, we're close still (family, hello) but we definitely stopped trying to pursue anything. After we had that moment, and then found out.. we didn't feel too weird about it, but we knew we shouldn't really venture more into it. But yeah, we weren't in love or anything, or felt anything strongly. Just a crazy christmas party.

 

[Viral7]

I personally think, in this kind of situation, that it's best if both people find out sooner rather later. Finding out sooner is better because most people will be hurt but since it wasn't a serious or deep relationship, both people can bounce back, recover, and move on. Where as if it was a longer and deeper relationship, it's harder to recover and let go because of the way you feel about that person, which will ultimately change because you now see this person differently. Instead of seeing a lover/mate, they now see a relative. Both people now, will start to doubt and question the relationship, and thus will probably result in the relationship ending in heartache. And I doubt if both people could continue to be friends afterwards. It would be to awkward and uncomfortable for both.

 

[DM]

This has happened to me as well. I saw a girl just for a couple weeks while I was home on break from college freshman year. I can't remember how, but about a year later I found out that she's related to me through my great uncle/aunt. We honestly found it to be pretty funny, and never let it affect our friendship.

It's an interesting "what if," to say the least. What if your soulmate wasn't too far away from you in relation? I'd like to think that I'd keep seeing the person, considering how hard it is to find love, but I doubt the social stigmas would allow it to happen. I'd probably get too scared and end it.

 

[havoc]

This has happened to me as well. I saw a girl just for a couple weeks while I was home on break from college freshman year. I can't remember how, but about a year later I found out that she's related to me through my great uncle/aunt. We honestly found it to be pretty funny, and never let it affect our friendship.

This is how it unfolded for me too, luckily.

Now that I slept on it it doesn't really blow my mind like it did yesterday, but still that's some crazy stuff. I think if you did see someone for a long time and THEN found out, it would be ok. I mean, obviously if you saw that person for a long time, the common link you have is distant enough to the point where, in all your combined run-ins and communications with your family, neither of you happened to hear about the relation. But again, the social stigma is pretty tough for that sort of thing, and it's a blanket stigma, not a case-by-case sort of thing.

I had asked my mom if she knew the girl and she said that, though she knew my great-aunt had grandchildren, she had no clue who they were.

 

[EconBiscuit]

OK, this reminds me of a story that was in the newspaper not to long ago.

Apparently this couple met randomly on holiday and it was love at first sight, they had a whirlwind romance, aswell as having sex, and I think it was on their wedding day or not to long after the wedding they found out they were twins seperated at birth.

I can't remember exactly what happend, but in your situation at least it's not as bad as that.

I think we have all had our close calls, this girl had the hots for me, and was a known slut, in fact that's the only reason I didn't attempt as she used to brag about 40men at 18, but I found out that she was my second cousin... So yeah :P

IIRC cousins are fine in the eyes of the law but are morally frowned upon, personally it was something that hardly could be avoided but you could at least count your blessings

 

[Odinwolf]

At the level of second-cousin there is no additional chance of mutation or birth defect than there is with any other member of general populace. However, if your family has a history of genetic problems, like down's syndrome, its wise not to let things get that far. You are essentially dipping into the same gene pool twice and risking scooping up a genetic problem both times.

So even if things had progressed to you having babies, you would have (probably) been fine. In fact, marrying cousins and second-cousins was a common practice before mankind became so mobile. First-cousins are off-limits by law in some states, however, so don't go fooling around with any other family members until you check your local statues!

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

well I'm from WV, which is also known as a hick state. I don't think cousin marriage is banned here, and in fact that seems to be the number one way people from other states (especially MD and VA) make fun of WV.

To answer your question, if I found out I had been dating a cousin and was really involved, I probably wouldn't end it as long as it is biologically safe to have children. One of my friends is an only child and her parents are fourth (maybe fifth?) cousins, and she is probably the most beautiful person I've met in my life, so I doubt any mutations occured with her. Besides the biologically safe children thing, you kinda have to worry about the whole "what will other people think?" My response in life has always been "Fuck what they think.", but you know some people allow other peoples actions to control what they do in life.

 

[Warthog]

there is nothing wrong with what you did because you had no clue she was your cousin. Even if you did have sex with her you still had no clue and well you thought she was hot/cool person so it shouldn't matter.

However I find this funny because we were talking about this subject in class. There are systems (I forget what culture, buts its not too uncommon) where your preferred mate was your second cousin. Some still had a taboo though for marrying their cousins from their fathers side but were perfectly fine to marry their mother's cousin because lineage was threw your father.. then you had some that had the exact opposite.

one thing I need to point out though. Just because you have a child with your cousin doesn't mean the kid will have "defects" as some people think. It actually increases variation, which means you are just as likely to produce the next Forest Gump as you are to produce the next Einstein. Its actually probably what helped us change into what we are now because even if we got some stupid people out of it we still got a some smart ones as well. Because remember we weren't always in vast cities, we were also in small communities too.

 

[Bran]

OK, this reminds me of a story that was in the newspaper not to long ago.

Apparently this couple met randomly on holiday and it was love at first sight, they had a whirlwind romance, aswell as having sex, and I think it was on their wedding day or not to long after the wedding they found out they were twins seperated at birth.

I can't remember exactly what happend, but in your situation at least it's not as bad as that.

I have heard that story on the radio before. I kinda felt bad for them, because that is like the worst thing you want to hear from your lover!

well I'm from WV, which is also known as a hick state. I don't think cousin marriage is banned here, and in fact that seems to be the number one way people from other states (especially MD and VA) make fun of WV.

Wait, I have found another member from WV!!!! WOOT!!!!! My friend, we have gotta talk, lol!



Anyway, this kinda sucks, because it hits so close to home. My mom and dad are 3rd cousins....... It was kinda scary hearing about that when I was older, but my dad told me the story, and my mother confirmed all of it. It's like what everybody has said so far; boy meets girl, think nothing of it. In this case, however, my mom and dad hit it off and got married. However, DAYS before they got married, my grandmother from my dad's side learned about this fact. Since they loved each other so much and the wedding was so near, they decided to go-on with it.

Then they had me, my younger sister, and got divorced 15 years later. So yeah, if you are one of the ones that believe that 3rd cousins doing this is incest, then I must be one freak of nature. I personally believe that after 2nd cousins, it's not a big deal, because the bloodline is so thin that it shouldn't be harmful to anyone.

 

[QuickDraw]

inbreeding really isn't harmful to offspring if they are 1st generation. it takes a while for traits that are considered "undesirable" to actually get a foothold through inbreeding. that said i think 3rd cousins is the closest i could ever deal with. 2nd cousins means that you are directly related through one person, personally i'd need at least 2 or three blood lines between us before i could handle something like this.

 

[Misty]

i say, as long as it's not illegal, who cares

 

[Vampy34]

I've had sex with one of my cousins. Being adopted has it's perks!

 

[Lee]

I had a similar experience when I was about 13. To cut a long story short, I found out that my best friend at the time, who I'd known for years, was actually a distant relation. Was a shock but pretty cool though at the time. I daresay I wouldn't find it to be quite as exciting if our relationship was a little less platonic though, like in your situation. :X

But you raise a very interesting question. Love is such an enigma and I won't attempt to pretend that I have a deep understanding of it at my tender age. If two people are deeply in love, then surely they should be together regardless of circumstance? The problem is that the body possesses internal characteristics that seem to exist solely to prevent this kind of relationship. I did 6 months of Psychology in college before quitting, and there were two instances that are standing out in my mind (is it wrong that I found incest to be such a fascinating topic?):

Kin recognition; I don't have the deepest understanding of this but the gist is that animals have an inherent capability to distinguish between family and non-family. The reasoning for this is uncertain but there are a few theories with the main one being to prevent incestual relationships.

Westermark effect: Interesting little test that showed that people that live together for the early period of their life are programmed to find each other sexually unattractive. The main theory was that this mechanic existed to prevent incestual relationships.

And of course if you want to go down the biological or indeed religious road, then there's the simple mechanic of interbreeding. It's as if the body itself is sending out the message "DON'T DO IT." There's just so many things that seem naturally wrong with it. However, if I was in the positon that you describe and was all set to marry the girl before discovering she's my cousin, I imagine I would want to stand by her. But I'm not certain that it would be sustainable.

 

[Glen]

first cousins, i dont think any feelings i have would allow me to deal with how gross and weird i'd feel

second cousins, i'd have no problem with it personally, but because of the social stigma attached to it i really wouldn't want to risk other people finding out

 

[Kagster123]

Well i must say i'm surprised to see everyone being so open, its a good surprise though.

I've never (and hopefully) will not be put into a situation like that. I'd probably call it off, but in my culture its double the trouble when you do something with a family member.. lol

But of course the generations are changing, anything can happen.

 

[Shinryu]

i say, as long as it's not illegal, who cares

Pretty much my thoughts. I mean, like you said, whatever romance you had ended long ago, and even if it had continued, so what? It's not like someone who's your second cousin is that closely related to you or anything. Granted, if it was your sister or other direct family, yeah it could be a bit weird. But second cousin is pretty distant imo.

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

Here's the way I see it...

If you were raised to believe that a specific person is family (through blood relation, I mean), then I would generally stick to that mind frame. If you are interested in someone and then find out that you are distantly related to that person, I wouldn't let that affect my view of them. Growing up knowing someone is family has more of a "no" effect than "hey I like you... what you're family?"

Now, to define distantly related: if you are related because your relative is the grandchild of one of your grandparent's siblings, that is distant, because that is 2 generations (meaning, they are 2nd cousins). If you are related because your relative is the child of one of your parent's siblings, that is not distant and should be a no.

I must also bring up this topic, only because I am in this situation, and there may be some of you who have the same situation...

My father was adopted by my grandparents, which means the family he was raised in is NOT related to him by blood. So the grand children of my great aunt and uncle on my dad's "side" of the family are not related to ME by blood. On top of that, my father divorced my biological mother and remarried. I don't keep in contact with any of my biological mother's side of the family. The family I know is my step mother's family, which I obviously have no blood relation to.

So here is my question... though I grew up with the mentality that my cousins are my family, they are not related to me through blood. Would it be considered wrong for me to become sexually/romantically interested in any of these cousins?

I think I am unique in the fact that I have two different kinds of "family" situations (adoption AND divorce), so I think I covered a broad range of the "what if" spectrum with my question.

I look forward to replies to my post as well as more replies to the original poster.

So to directly reply to you, Mr. Pottle, no, I don't think there is/was anything wrong with your relationship with your 2nd cousin. Because she is related to you 2 generations ago, that is distant enough to not cause birth defects in any children you may have or your children's children may have. I also don't consider 2nd cousins being romantically/sexually involved to be incest.

To help assist my explanation, here is a diagram, which I will explain below.

1 - great-grandfather
2 - great-grandmother
3 - great-aunt by marriage
4 - great-uncle
5 - grandfather
6 - grandmother
7 - ex-2nd cousin, once removed by divorced marriage
8 - 2nd cousin, once removed by marriage
9 - 2nd cousin, once removed
10 - 2nd cousin, once removed by marriage
11 - 2nd cousin, once removed
12 - uncle
13 - aunt by marriage
14 - your mother
15 - your father (different family tree)
16 - your step mother
17 - your step mother's ex husband
18 - ex-2nd step cousin by divorced marriage (I think)
no number (oops) - 2nd cousin
19 - 2nd cousin
20 - 2nd cousin
21 - 1st cousin
22 - your sister
23 - your sister
24 - YOU
25 - your half sister
26 - your step sister by divorced marriage

Now, here are the people you could hook up with and it NOT be considered incest OR awkward:
18 - you have absolutely NO blood relation
26 - you have absolutely NO blood relation (this may be SLIGHTLY awkward, but no one should really give a fuck)

Here are the people you could hook up with and it NOT be considered incest, but could be considered awkward:
no number, 20 - they are 2nd cousins, this is not really incest anymore
19 - he is your 2nd cousin, and some people might think homo is awkward

Here are the people you SHOULD NOT HOOK UP WITH AT ALL because it is awkward:
8, 10, 13, 16, 17

Here are people you SHOULD NOT HOOK UP WITH AT ALL because it is incest:
21, 22, 23, 25

The rest, well, it's complicated, awkward, and probably incest lol.

I HOPE THIS HELPED!

ps: if 26 or 18 were hot, I'd do my best to get on them ;)

 

[DM]

i say, as long as it's not illegal, who cares

The only problem is that the law isn't uniform across the board, each state has a different statute (just like every state defines a juvenile differently). That's why it's such a grey area.

To reply to kholdstaire: I would like to think that I wouldn't mind dating someone who is "family" through a remarriage, but once again there are those stigmas attached. I'd probably be too afraid to do anything, and take into account the fact that if things go sour, you're still going to have to see each other at family functions. I would never want to make family get-togethers uncomfortable for anyone.