Pokémon Kingambit

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Kingambit
Dark
steel.gif

Base Stats: 100 HP / 135 Atk / 120 Def / 60 SpA / 85 SpD / 50 Spe (Compare it to Bisharp's 65 HP / 125 Atk / 100 Def / 60 SpA / 70 SpD / 70 Spe)
Abilities: Defiant | Supreme Overlord | Pressure (H)

Notable Moves:
- Brick Break
- Iron Head
- Kowtow Cleave
- Low Kick
- Poison Jab
- Stealth Rocks
- Stone Edge
- Substitute
- Body Press
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Tera Blast


New Elements:
Supreme Overlord (ability) : This Pokémon raises its Attack and Special Attack per fainted allied (Additional notes: Caps at x1.5, revived allies still count for the boost, for a detailed explanation, see here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scarlet-violet-battle-mechanics-research.3709545/post-9421520)
Kowtow Cleave (move): 85bp physical dark attack stab that never misses. Contact move.

Ilustración de Kingambit

Pros:
- Has a surprisingly good bulk in 100/120/85 stats, allowing it to take a hit or two for its team. Its attack is great at 135.
- Access to Setup and decently good coverage options. Has Priority in Sucker punch to make up for its lackluster speed.
- Extremely potent ability in Supreme Overlord which makes this a monstrous lategame cleaner. Defiant could probably see use if the meta ever becomes less hostile towards defoggers.
-Decently good defensive profile thanks mostly to being a steel type, such as resistance to stealth rocks. Dark typing makes it a very decent switch in to many of the ghosts of the tier.
Cons:
- 50 speed makes it very slow, although it does admitedly doesn't lose that many targets when compared to its slow speed tier. As such is prone to taking a couple of hits.
- Typing also comes with a couple of disadvantages, such a inmense weakness to fighting and ground type attacks.

Terastal Potential:
- Dark Terastal gives out ludicrous amounts of damage to mons even with no setup or taking into account the effects of its ability. It especially incentivises the use of Kowtow as its main stab, but also gives the option to go with a nuclear sucker punch.
- Other typings include steel (for its other stab), water (for ground types), flying (for fightings, grounds and bugs), fairy (for darks and fightings), and poison (for fairy types).

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Potential Sets:
Offensive Black Glasses
Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Supreme Overlord / Defiant
Tera Type: Dark / Fairy / Water
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave / Tera Blast
- Iron Head / Tera Blast

This set makes use of two dark type attacks: Kowtow Cleave as its regular stab for whenever the opponent thinks they can outplay sucker, and Sucker Punch itself which serves as a way to demolish mons faster than it. As such, Black Glasses replaces Life Orb since in this way Kingambit doesn't wear itself down from repeated attacks and is still having a damage boost equal to that of Life Orb without the recoil. An additional option can be found in physical tera blast to nail specific targets, replacing either Kowtow or Iron head. Supreme Overlord is generally the ability you want, but i don't discard the option of defiant if you really want to punish Knock Off or are planning to use this Mon on a more defensive playstyle. Speed EVs outspeed uninvested Coviknight to not fear Body Press.

Potential Discussion points:
  • Does this mon have any OU role it can fill to become OU by usage?
  • Should this mon be found problematic, should we only ban Supreme Overlord or Kingambit as a whole?
  • Should Kingambit stay in OU, would Bisharp be able to reprise a role in the tier as well?
  • Home Pokémon are supposedly going to lose access to old moves, otherwise this Mon would have gotten Knock Off. Would Knock Off had broken this Mon?
 

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You should mention what the new kowtow moves effect is as well as what the details of Supreme overlord is (I believe it is x1.2 per fainted Pokémon)
 
Maybe it's the way I'm using Kingambit, but I feel that Defiant is still just a better ability than Supreme Overlord.
I'm currently using a balance team with Kingambit as my secondary check to Chien-Pao if it reveals Tera Blast to take out my primary check, and I never end up with more than 1-2 stacks of its ability so half the time I just feel like I'm playing Kingambit without an ability.
Despite Intimidate and Defog being nowhere near as prominent, I really enjoy getting a +2 from random Shadow Balls and Moonblasts flying around, and Defog Corviknight obviously still exists.

Edit: Wow did this not age well.
Flutter got banned, Gholdengo being a better switchin to Corv, and the way teambuilding concepts around KG changing on a whole with it often becoming a priority Tera target makes SO really strong
 
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escarlata said:
Maybe it's the way I'm using Kingambit, but I feel that Defiant is still just a better ability than Supreme Overlord.
I'm currently using a balance team with Kingambit as my secondary check to Chien-Pao if it reveals Tera Blast to take out my primary check, and I never end up with more than 1-2 stacks of its ability so half the time I just feel like I'm playing Kingambit without an ability.
Despite Intimidate and Defog being nowhere near as prominent, I really enjoy getting a +2 from random Shadow Balls and Moonblasts flying around, and Defog Corviknight obviously still exists.
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There's a couple of reasons to use Defiant still for sure, though less of them now that Flutter's gone and there's no defoggers anymore besides Corviknight (who does have body press).

That said, you're still better off with SO, since Kingambit already works better in the late game in general too. There's simply not enough defoggers or intimidate mon in this gen anymore for Defiant to be consistent.

That said, SO is likely worse in showdown than it is in the actual game since it only gives you 10% more attack per downed mon in Showdown, but in the real game, you're supposed to get a 20% boost from the first mon to go down, and 10% boosts for each one that goes down after. Hopefully this gets fixed down the line, but the best we can do now is wait, much like how Kingambit plays in this current volatile meta.

EDIT: This post conflicts with the above FYI. Looks like it is 10%, unless the person who tested got unusually low rolls on their first attack. Not sure how that other person and their friends in the OU discord that tested was getting a 20% increase. I wish there was a way to get into the game's code and just see the answer directly.
 
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GaileOxstain said:
Bisharp did not need or ask for an evolution, and yet here we are. Now I am wondering how Eviolite will function on Bisharp. We could have another Rhydon/Chansey/Dusclops on our hands!
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This is actually an interesting question. Would Eviolite give Bisharp enough extra bulk to survive hits to set-up and sweep? Should be explored for sure.
 
GaileOxstain said:
Bisharp did not need or ask for an evolution, and yet here we are. Now I am wondering how Eviolite will function on Bisharp. We could have another Rhydon/Chansey/Dusclops on our hands!
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HeartlessAngel1993 said:
This is actually an interesting question. Would Eviolite give Bisharp enough extra bulk to survive hits to set-up and sweep? Should be explored for sure.
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I think I recall leaks saying Eviolite is a smaller boost now for 2nd stage Pokemon than 1st Stage ones in a 3-part Evolution chain (1.2x was the number I read vs 1.5x). Were this the case, I think it dampens the usefulness for Bisharp a little since he's already a bit slow and SP reliant without recovery, but still something to be said for potential bulk-boost that still lets him use set up moves like SD or Sub compared to AV.
 
Maybe another potential set is an assault vest one, I used one for some matches and had mild success on lower ladder, it tanks some hits quite well and the damage in return is astounding.
 
GaileOxstain said:
Bisharp did not need or ask for an evolution, and yet here we are. Now I am wondering how Eviolite will function on Bisharp. We could have another Rhydon/Chansey/Dusclops on our hands!
Click to expand...
We really don't.

Eviolite Bisharp isn't worth running at all.

Firstly, it isn't actually bulkier than Kingambit, their defenses are virtually identical. You can run the tests yourself on Showdown Calculator if you're unsure.

Secondly, Bisharp has no access to strong Dark stabs in this game (besides Sucker Punch of course). Nightslash is as good as it gets for him, while Kingambit at least gets Kowtow Cleave. So not only are you losing access to a damage boosting item, and not only do you have a lower attack stat, you also have a weaker Dark Stab to use.

And lastly, Defiant is way less useful this gen, where Defog is way less prominent and Landorus isn't around to boost your attacking stats anymore. The free damage bonus from losing mons is far more attractive in the long run, especially in singles. Also worth noting that Supreme Overlord is likely weaker than it's supposed to be and will be buffed in the future when Showdown updates it.

If you're gonna use Bisharp for its higher speed, don't bother with Eviolite, go for the tried and true sets of the past to wreck things.
 
pika pal said:
I think I recall leaks saying Eviolite is a smaller boost now for 2nd stage Pokemon than 1st Stage ones in a 3-part Evolution chain (1.2x was the number I read vs 1.5x). Were this the case, I think it dampens the usefulness for Bisharp a little since he's already a bit slow and SP reliant without recovery, but still something to be said for potential bulk-boost that still lets him use set up moves like SD or Sub compared to AV.
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If that's the case we may see a resurgence of Blissey or Dusknoir use. Still like my Rhydon though. I am not a fan of its evolution's design.
 
I've seen Blunder running this set a lot on his streams lately and apparently he has an extremely positive opinion about it, going so far as to say this is the best Kingambit spread:

Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord / Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 180 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch

Does anyone know what this spread accomplishes, though? It hits 141 Speed, but I'm not sure what that creeps. A more SpDef-heavy Kingambit seems very solid, though; despite having a middling 85 SpDef stat its 404 HP carries it super hard and lets it live pretty much anything on that side except for goofy shit like Chi-Yu's Fire STAB so it can clean lategame, but I'm not informed enough about this mon to speak to it very much. Has anyone tried out this spread, and can they speak to it positively or negatively?
 
Potential Discussion points:

  • Does this mon have any OU role it can fill to become OU by usage?
  • Should this mon be found problematic, should we only ban Supreme Overlord or Kingambit as a whole?
Click to expand...
I don't know if will have a role in OU or not but right now it is nowhere near to qualify as banworthy.
its supreme overlord ability is strong but considering its low speed I don't think that it will get the chance to abuse it that much.
maaaaaaybe it could become a late game cleaner in a trick room team.
 
Soiramio3000 said:
I don't know if will have a role in OU or not but right now it is nowhere near to qualify as banworthy.
its supreme overlord ability is strong but considering its low speed I don't think that it will get the chance to abuse it that much.
maaaaaaybe it could become a late game cleaner in a trick room team.
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Eh, idk. I agree with it being a late game cleaner, but Supreme Overlord + Tera Dark + Suckered Punch seems like something to keep in mind. I can see it being useful in that regard.
 
Soiramio3000 said:
something irrelevant to my previous posts:
abomasnow seems like an okay pokemon this generation.

now that the vastly superior alolan ninetales is gone abomasnow can easily replace it.
the set I am running with it is this:
EVs:252 hp,252 def, 4 spdef
nature:careful(-sp.atk+sp.def)
item:icy rock
ability:snow warning
moveset:
-aurora veil
-seed bomb
-leech seed
-icy wind/mud slap.

this pokemon is a bootleg version of alolan nintales.

the aurora veil is self explanatory.
seed bomb is a bootleg freeze-dry.(it has access to wood hammer, but do you really want to get recoil damage?)
leech seed is the closest I could find in its movepool to pain split.
mud slup is there because it is the close I could find to encore.
icy wind is the closest I could find to hypnosis.

as about the EVs I decided to max out the defences since the only way for it to reach alolan nintale's speed is through choice scarf,which will still let it very vulnerable.

as about tera typing.....I am not using one since I don't think it is wort it , if I had to reccomend any I would pick:steel(it resists most of its weaknesses)
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This is the kingambit thread.

Dreadfury did you manage to figure out the purpose of the stat spread? It seems very interesting and i might include it in the OP.
 
Kefkapwnsall said:
Honestly this feels like a mon made for vgc
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It feels like a lot of the Pokemon this gen are made to work really well in VGC, it's pretty obvious that GameFreak's main priority is VGC but it especially feels prominent this gen.

An OU meta that features both Bisharp and Kingambit is really fun in concept and I think it isn't too farfetched. They both fill very different roles and unlike Houndoom and Last Respects, Supreme Overlord is kept in check pretty well by Kingambit's speed and 4x weakness to fighting. Kingambit is easily one of my all time favorites so I'm really glad it doesn't seem to just be Bisharp 2. Can't wait to try out these sets!
 
Im surprised to see no mention of ghost-tera plus sub or SD.

I run full HP full ATK Adamant life orb with Sucker, Iron Head, SD and sub and it very reliably saves games 1 v 2 or 3 when its the last mon standing (Using supreme overlord).

The idea is simple, you manage a losing game so that Kingambit comes out against a mon with a fighting attack, like body press corv, chien-pao or iron valiant. You tera-ghost and SD or sub according to the opponents remaining mons and nuke everything from there. If youre facing no brave bird corv, this can usually net you both SD and a sub.

Its worth nothing that the threat of Supreme Overlord sucker punch is enough to bait the opponent to go for a status move or switch, adding to the chances that you get the sub or SD up.
 
FTO said:
Im surprised to see no mention of ghost-tera plus sub or SD.

I run full HP full ATK Adamant life orb with Sucker, Iron Head, SD and sub and it very reliably saves games 1 v 2 or 3 when its the last mon standing (Using supreme overlord).

The idea is simple, you manage a losing game so that Kingambit comes out against a mon with a fighting attack, like body press corv, chien-pao or iron valiant. You tera-ghost and SD or sub according to the opponents remaining mons and nuke everything from there. If youre facing no brave bird corv, this can usually net you both SD and a sub.

Its worth nothing that the threat of Supreme Overlord sucker punch is enough to bait the opponent to go for a status move or switch, adding to the chances that you get the sub or SD up.
Click to expand...
The big issue with ghost tera is it provides pretty much no offensive utility since Ghost hits the same types super effective that Dark already does and doesn't offer that much more neutral coverage for dark and steel, and tera types like fairy can lessen fighting type damage with a resist while still providing more utility
 
I'm finding Tera Flying to be a more and more appealing choice as I use this guy. With Overlord's boosts, it's really just looking for that one key turn to setup an SD to finish the job and Tera-Flying flipping the majority of your weaknesses into resists goes kinda crazy. Tera Blast Flying busting through Fighting-type would-be checks in a pinch, where you still couldn't SD, saves games as well. It does pretty much everything Ghost would do for you besides spin-block. Of course it's a huge gambit (heh) to save your Terastalize for as late in the game as Kingambit likes to operate so dropping Tera Blast is completely reasonable.

Regardless, the more viable Tera-types Kingambit has, the better because it needs that surprise factor.

Kingambit @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave / Tera Blast / Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast / Substitute / Iron Head

Fun calc: 252 Atk Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit [Flying]: 154-182 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If you Terastalize Flying and attack the same turn, you beat Multiscale Dragonite 1v1 with no ESpeed/Sucker Punch predictions required since it can't 2HKO with anything through these Agency defenses while you 2HKO cleanly with Overlord boosted Kowtow or Tera Blast. Nite's also very likely to EQ or DD and waste a turn anyway as you Tera. It's gotta come in healthy (hence Boots) and it's gotta Tera on the right turn, but Kingambit Flying has been a blast so far.
 
aaronrules380 said:
The big issue with ghost tera is it provides pretty much no offensive utility since Ghost hits the same types super effective that Dark already does and doesn't offer that much more neutral coverage for dark and steel, and tera types like fairy can lessen fighting type damage with a resist while still providing more utility
Click to expand...

This is true, but Im not using terablast at all. The offensive use of tera in this set is to get a sub or an SD down. Im not planning on surviving hits to hit them back for super effective damage and im not planning on outspeeding either.
 
Katakiri said:
I'm finding Tera Flying to be a more and more appealing choice as I use this guy. With Overlord's boosts, it's really just looking for that one key turn to setup an SD to finish the job and Tera-Flying flipping the majority of your weaknesses into resists goes kinda crazy. Tera Blast Flying busting through Fighting-type would-be checks in a pinch, where you still couldn't SD, saves games as well. It does pretty much everything Ghost would do for you besides spin-block. Of course it's a huge gambit (heh) to save your Terastalize for as late in the game as Kingambit likes to operate so dropping Tera Blast is completely reasonable.

Regardless, the more viable Tera-types Kingambit has, the better because it needs that surprise factor.

Kingambit @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave / Tera Blast / Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast / Substitute / Iron Head

Fun calc: 252 Atk Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit [Flying]: 154-182 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If you Terastalize Flying and attack the same turn, you beat Multiscale Dragonite 1v1 with no ESpeed/Sucker Punch predictions required since it can't 2HKO with anything through these Agency defenses while you 2HKO cleanly with Overlord boosted Kowtow or Tera Blast. Nite's also very likely to EQ or DD and waste a turn anyway as you Tera. It's gotta come in healthy (hence Boots) and it's gotta Tera on the right turn, but Kingambit Flying has been a blast so far.
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From what I understand, players are already starting to predict that mons like these might be carrying a Flying Tera Type or a Fairy tera type to counter ts weaknesses. That's the whole point of Tera Type, to counter and change your type to make 1v1 better(At least from what I understand). And yes, this set is extraordinary... Until Chien Po comes along. We are going to see pokemon like Chien Po carry and sweep teams because of ice moves general presence in the meta. The last time I checked(which was 2 days ago) Chien Po had yet to be banned and was still a staple on teams. While we will see bans and an eventual plateau of the meta, its safe to say that this set might not be the best considering the chances.

NOTE: I started Showdown last year and have only majorly played OU and Nat Dex in this Gen so far. If I have stated anything wrong feel free to correct me.
 
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