Jolteon (Substitute Special)

[R.B.G.]

Find Jolteon's standard sets here, at : http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jolteon
Just for you, SDS.
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This set plays exactly like Gengar, albeit with lesser coverage. Works especially like Gengar since Jolteon's stat spread is extremely similar, with less the only significant differences being that Jolteon has a higher SpD stat, less SpA, and more Speed. Please note, this isn't the same Substitute set on Smogon. You may have noticed that this set isn't original, even with it mainly being a Gengar set. I myself was surprised when I learned that this set was NOT one of Smogon's standards. That's why I posted it up here today.

This Jolteon deserves to be on site under its own name as Substitute+3 attacks, or at least as a sub-category of SubPass. The main difference between this and the SubPass set on Smogon is Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball, in the place of Baton Pass, offers coverage, a nice special attacking move with 80 Base Power. This set was also ripped from Gengar, and the purpose of it is to be as much like Gengar as possible. Shadow Ball also offers unpredictability, disarray to your opponent, and versatility in the form of more dangerous-ness (is that a word) on offense.

Jolteon @ Leftovers
Timid (+ Speed, - Attack)
EV Spread: 4/0/0/252/0/252
Substitute
-The purpose of this set.
Shadow Ball
-Coverage. In place of Baton Pass, you have an extra attack. Adding Shadow Ball to the mix gets you super-effective hits on 6 of the seventeen types. While 1/3 of the types doesn't seem like much on paper, it's main purpose is to get unresisted hits on every pokemon in the game. BallBeamBolt as you would call it.
Thunderbolt
-Mandatory STAB. Hits hard on everything not named Bronzong and Blissey that doesn't resist it. Turn Gyarados into calamari.
Hidden Power Ice / Magnet Rise / Baton Pass / Hidden Power Grass
​

• Hidden Power Ice : OHKO Flygon on the switch, OHKO all standard versions of Dragonite and Salamence after Stealth Rock damage. OHKO Gliscor.
• Hidden Power Grass : Just for you, Swampert. Just for you.

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-Compare Jolteon and Gengar's stat spreads below. Very similar, aren't they?
Jolteon's stat spread
65 HP
65 Attack
60 Defence
110 Special Attack
95 Special Defence
130 Speed

Gengar's stat spread
60 HP
65 Attack
60 Defence
130 Special Attack
75 Special Defence
110 Speed

Jolteon has higher HP and more Speed than Gengar, while having less Special Attack that's still fairly high at 110. Jolteon is also a lot more bulky than Gengar in the Special Defence category.
Like on the Gengar set, this Jolteon has Leftovers slapped on it so that it can regain the 68 HP lost after setting up Substitute.
While Jolteon doesn't have as many resistances as Gengar and has one less immunity, it only has one weakness in Ground.
Despite being weaker than the ever-present Specs Jolteon, this Jolteon is more dangerous, as it has less of a chance being KO'd right away or as quickly. An extremely fast special sweeper outsped by nothing scarfed outside of Ubers barring:

• Aerodactyl : Normally won't be out at the same time as Jolteon. Behind a Sub, Aero has to waste a turn breaking with Earthquake, and will be easily be OHKO'd by Thunderbolt. If Jolteon has Magnet Rise, forget about it.
• Crobat : Thunderbolt it, shouldn't be a threat to Jolteon anyways.
• Electrode : When will you see an Electrode in OU?
• Ninjask : Lol.

Because of those stat differences, Jolteon can get behind a Substitute quicker, and sustain it longer (not that 5 base HP makes much of a difference.) 95 Special Defence does come in handy. Gengar's part Poison-typing means that Jolteon won't have as hard a time as Gengar dealing with Psychic types either.

Teammates and Counters
Gengar: Oh em gee, how did Gengar get here? Working best on any Jolteon running this set without Magnet Rise, you can Baton Pass your Substitute to a SubGar, and begin sweeping of the bat, without needing to waste a turn Substituting. All of Jolteon's teammates on Smogon still apply to this set.

Swampert: I hate this thing. I hope this burns in a fiery hell that it resists. Then again, there's always HP Grass.
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All in all, when reading this set, and deciding whether or not it is viable in OU play, keep in mind how dangerous Gengar's Substitute+3 Attacks(Substitute Special) set is, and how a faster pokemon would be able to use it more effectively.
That's the end of it, if you have any questions, feel free to PM me about it.
And yes, I do have logs showing off this Jolteon's success.
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NOTES, ADDITIONS, REMOVALS
-HP Fire removed. After more extensive testing, HP Fire doesn't deserve a slot as the only real aim of HP Fire on this set is to take out Scizor and Forretress. However, due to Scizor and Forretress having relatively dismal Special Defence stats, Thunderbolt works as a well enough cover for these two.
-Baton Pass and Magnet Rise removed. Jolteon isn't bulky enough to sustain the three turns it would need to Sub, Magnet Rise, and Baton Pass. That wasn't mean to be the purpose of this set.
-Toned down so that SDS would read it. Just to make my hubby happy :)

 

[Pancham]

You should add HPGrass to the 4th slot as an option if you have Swampert troubles. Other than that, great set. :)

 

[FlareBlitz]

I could have sworn that there was a sub/3 attacks set already on-site but apparently not. The closest one is SubPass, which I suppose this could modify.
HP Fire really does not merit a slash since Tbolt does enough to Scizor and Forretress and Thunderbolt hits every steel type harder. Magnet Rise is not too useful either, Jolteon isn't bulky enough to try something like that. If you Magnet Rise on a Metagross or something it can easily just break your subs with Meteor Mash/Zen Headbutt. HP Grass/HP Ice should be the slashes in the last slot.

 

[eric the espeon]

Please read the announcement on title format and keep both it and the SCMS set format in mind when posting anything here in future (see every single other not locked analysis for examples).

 

[Scoopapa]

With the slash for baton pass, this set is basically the sub pass set with Shadow Ball over Hidden Power. If you really think Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Substitute / Baton Pass is a good set, you need to make the case for Shadow Ball's addition to the SubPass set. On this set, though, you should get rid of baton pass, since there's already a Sub-Baton Pass set.

Also, Magnet Rise really should be taken down. Jolteon is not hard to kill with neutral attacks, so most likely all that happens is you Magnet Rise and take no damage, then you attack while they counterattack and break your sub with a neutral move - the outcome is pretty much the same as if you had attacked turn one and had your sub broken by a Ground-type move. The only difference is a turn of leftovers recovery. The only pokemon I know of that can make good use of Magnet Rise is Aggron, and that's because he has massive defense and resists many attacks commonly paired with Earthquake (like Stone Edge). Jolteon is frail and doesn't resist much of note, so Magnet Rise doesn't really help him much. A third attack will help much more often than Magnet Rise.

Because Baton Pass is redundant and Magnet Rise is not very useful, I think the set should look like this:

Substitute
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
HP Ice / HP Grass

and call it Sub + 3 attacks. That way, it's its own set, and isn't using any bad moves.

However, all that said, I think you still need to defend why Shadow Ball is better than Baton Pass (hence why this deserves a set when SubPass exists).

 

[remlabmez]

Rejecting, this set can just be mentioned in the BP analysis, plus the lack of wish on this set which would make it kind of unique isnt even mentioned. Also a jolteon with sub and lefties isnt very big threat it all, specs or LO is needed.

 

[Zystral]

As the writer of the current Jolteon analysis, I've done a lot of Jolteon testing and I can safely say that by using Substitute, you have confined yourself to Leftovers, and any all-out attacking Jolteon without a boosting item will not have enough power to really shake anything away. Things that will switch in as you substitute can still do heavy damage before you can kill them. That's why Gengar and Heatran are more effective - it can attack and do heavy damage. I'd rather use Jolteon as a Life Orb, attack a lot and flee when something bad comes in since then it makes Jolteon's job easier rather than cotinually losing 25% and then being forced out 2 turns later. At best, Substitute is left for Baton Passing.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

no for all the reasons rem stated

 

[Setsuna]

Yeah, I agree with my QC partners. In fact, Jolteon's analysis had a similar set in the past, but we decided to remove it in the second round of Quality Control. Further information can be found in the QC Documentation thread.

Closed.