Jeff Gerstmann fired over Kane & Lynch review?

Firestorm

Firestorm

I did my best, I have no regrets!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This is tomorrow's Penny Arcade comic:
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It seemed like they were just making fun of the coincidence, but it seems more than that might just be at work here. All the elements are actually true. GameSpot is doing a big marketing thing for K&L. Gerstmann did give it a 6.0. He was fired.

Whether or not it was all connected isn't fully clear, but it just might be from the tone this Kotaku article takes:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/gamespot-editor-fired-over-kane--lynch-review-328244.php

Yeah, a guy being fired isn't exactly big news. But the amount of control publishers have over content at game sites and magazines is by far the biggest thing holding back games journalism from being taken as seriously as other forms of entertainment coverage (sports, movies).

Just spreading the word as causing a storm over this is probably the best way to tell publishers like Eidos that we're tired of this crap.

There's been a bunch of sites that really are leading me to think this is what happened.

Gabe confirms: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=3689682&postcount=18
ShackNews: http://blog.shacknews.com/blogarticle.x/50135
Wired: http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/11/sources-gamespo.html

I can't wait to see Tycho's commentary tomorrow on PA...

Getting everything off this topic: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212394&page=19

Also, 4chan seems to be invading the Eidos forums:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72
 
Fuckin joke basically, I just saw this over on kotaku as well. I'm glad journalistic integrity is getting rewarded in such a way.
 
Remember when Eidos used to release games that were good?

Yeah, me neither. Use the gnarled cock of corporate greed to acquire what one cannot get through honest labor I suppose.
 
I've been following developments with interest over at NeoGAF, too. I'd really like to know what the blazes actually happened, here. If Gerstmann was actually fired because Eidos raised a stink with Gamespot's parent company, well... That's not going to do anything for Gamespot's credibility problems. Or gaming reviewers as a whole, for that matter.

Definitely not a good day for games media as a whole.
 
Summary from a poster at GAF. Definitely read http://valleywag.com/tech/jeff-gerstmann/gamespot-editor--on-fired-reviewer-328775.php

Summary of latest development:

- CNET issues totally predictable non-denial-denial statements trying to dodge their way out of this
- Josh Larson, the guy in charge who replaced Greg K when he left, is a marketing guy and he's in charge of the editorial content
- Previous article by Josh Larson: http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/9509.asp
- an anonymous account by a possible gamespot editor of this whole debacle: http://valleywag.com/tech/jeff-gerstmann/gamespot-editor--on-fired-reviewer-328775.php
- Alex N, a gamespot editor, posted this on his blog http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/AlexN/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25234567
- Kevin V, another gamespot editor's blog post: http://www.gamespot.c-om/users/Kevin-V/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25234747
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ekans dilos said:
In all seriousness though, I never liked Jeff Gerstmann as a reviewer. I've basically never agreed with his opinions on anything.
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Oh, don't be one of those fanboys crying over his Twilight Princess review. TP wasn't revolutionary, it wasn't the omg greatest game ever, it's not even the best Zelda ever, and it certainly has its faults. 8.8 is still an amazing score, and the negatives he brings up are all true anyway.

All of this is proof that the entire game reviewing thing is mostly bullshit. A Zelda game gets less than a 9? Mass hysteria. It doesn't matter if it actually deserved it or not, it's just that Zelda is supposed to be some sort of amazing industry-changing phenomenon. TP wasn't and it doesn't deserve perfect 10's. Keep in mind this is from someone who sat outside in the cold for 12 hours last year to get a Wii so I could play TP a few weeks earlier.

Just a look at the side of that page reveals a user review that sums up the problem:
Revolutionary. One word to sum up this game that will outrank any game that PS3 has to offer now, and ever will.
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Is there any doubt this guy wet himself over seeing "8.8" on Gerstmann's review? (And subsequently stormed the GS forums and complained about it?)

As far as the Kane and Lynch thing goes, I'd believe it, since many of his reviews have been a little controversial in the first place. Gamespot might've been waiting for a good time to fire him, and that would've been perfect, especially if the advertising (read: money) guys started whining.
 
To be honest, I'd never really payed attention to Gerstmann's reviews. I went back and read some of 'em, and I gotta say, none of them, K&L included, read like someone being negative just for the sake of being negative. I certainly don't understand the uproar over the TP review. The worst you could say about his work is that he tells people how they should be reacting to games a lot; "this part of the game will make you feel like this," and suchlike.

In the end, I'm not sure Gerstmann did anything to incite the controversies around his reviews other than to state the facts about a game as he sees it. They certainly check out factually. If GameSpot wants to fire a reviewer for having an opinion, well, that's going to be interesting.
 
just some chick said:
Oh, don't be one of those fanboys crying over his Twilight Princess review. TP wasn't revolutionary, it wasn't the omg greatest game ever, it's not even the best Zelda ever, and it certainly has its faults. 8.8 is still an amazing score, and the negatives he brings up are all true anyway.

All of this is proof that the entire game reviewing thing is mostly bullshit. A Zelda game gets less than a 9? Mass hysteria. It doesn't matter if it actually deserved it or not, it's just that Zelda is supposed to be some sort of amazing industry-changing phenomenon. TP wasn't and it doesn't deserve perfect 10's. Keep in mind this is from someone who sat outside in the cold for 12 hours last year to get a Wii so I could play TP a few weeks earlier.

Just a look at the side of that page reveals a user review that sums up the problem:
Is there any doubt this guy wet himself over seeing "8.8" on Gerstmann's review? (And subsequently stormed the GS forums and complained about it?)

As far as the Kane and Lynch thing goes, I'd believe it, since many of his reviews have been a little controversial in the first place. Gamespot might've been waiting for a good time to fire him, and that would've been perfect, especially if the advertising (read: money) guys started whining.
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OK. I also waited outside (not 12 hours, I dunno where you went), and I found it was completely worth it. TP may not be OoT but it's among the best Zeldas for sure. The temples are genious, the environments HUGE and beautiful, the new tools are brilliant (spinner, chain flail, double hookshot... all among the most awesome items ever featured in a zelda game) and there's honestly nothing more fun than riding epona around. It definetly brings in more than enough innovation to not be called "more of the same." Did i mention it's also arguably the best fishing game of all time (i don't wanna get into that argument lol i hate fishing games)? Yes, all this is my opinion. However, there's a certain limit to how far opinion can go. If I personally don't like The Godfather, Star Wars, Dante's Divina Commedia or Shakespeare's Hamlet, etc., can I deny that they are excellently made/written and among the most influential movies/books/plays ever written? no. Can i give super mario bros 3, Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Metal Gear Solid, etc. a lower score than every single other publication out there just to spite them because i personally don't like them as much as most (I love those games btw) and retain credibility as an editor? Hell no. Such is the case with Twilight Princess when the average score is a 9.5 from other sites and a 9.0 is considered the benchmark for excellence on that site. No less, his reasons were IMO quite stupid. No voice? Is it really that big a deal? So TP doesnt get an editor's choice award because it doesn't have voice and some other flashy presentation elements when at the core it's one of the best games ever made in terms of gameplay, diversity, cleverness of puzzles and fun factor? In the end there has to be a certain objectivity in reviews. It needs to come down to "it's well made" rather than "i like it".

I'm not saying there's never been an overhyped game that didnt deserve its ratings and should have been shot down, but zelda definetly isn't one and there's no justification to make it so.

I have neither the time nor the will to go find examples, but compare that 8.8 with other scores they gave.

As for getting fired over K&L... that reminds me of the time IGN was payed off to give Driv3r a 9. something; only in reverse... stuff like that definetly shouldn't happen. I do agree with Jeff Gerstmann being fired, but if that was really the cause it's completely ridiculous, unfair and... hilarious (penny arcade hehe). But again, they may have been waiting to fire him for other reasons and that may have been just the catalyst.

(Also Gamespot in itself is a pretty questionable source when it comes to reviews and such.)
 
ekans dilos said:
However, there's a certain limit to how far opinion can go. If I personally don't like The Godfather, Star Wars, Dante's Divina Commedia or Shakespeare's Hamlet, etc., can I deny that they are excellently made/written and among the most influential movies/books/plays ever written? no. Can i give super mario bros 3, Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Metal Gear Solid, etc. a lower score than every single other publication out there just to spite them because i personally don't like them as much as most (I love those games btw) and retain credibility as an editor? Hell no.
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You don't seem to get the point of multiple people reviewing a game. If you want to see what the average person thinks, you go to metacritic. If you want to know what an individual thinks, you read their review. They have a right to say what they really think in their best judgement, just as you and I are now. Whether it ends up getting posted on a huge website like GS or the Smogon forums makes zero difference.
 
ekans dilos said:
Finally. Read this article to see why he deserved to be fired and then some:

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/thelegendofzelda/review.html?sid=6161993

Now I'm not implying that giving Zelda an 8.8 is bad per se... ok, I am.

In all seriousness though, I never liked Jeff Gerstmann as a reviewer. I've basically never agreed with his opinions on anything.
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I don't see the reason he should be fired there either? Honestly, looking back at the game, I'd probably have given it an 8.5/10 (but I only rate things in .5 increments). I disagree with you on many points. Riding Epona wasn't that fun at all, there were few sidequests and most of them weren't compelling (especially compared to Majora's Mask), and fishing was completely unintuitive the first time you do it. It was so horrible I never tried again. The dungeon designs in the second half of the game were pretty amazing. Sadly, the first third of the game wasn't up to par and the first two hours were a borefest.

The game is still awesome, but could be better. However, I do disagree with many points Gerstmann made. Anyway, you shouldn't let you dumb Zelda fanboyism get in the way of your judgement on "LOL HE RATED MY GAME 'BAD' FIRED BITCH". Ugh. And seriously, when was 8.8 a bad score? "Oh noes. 2% lower than 90%! FUCK!"

I must admit, that day it got 8.8 was one of the best I've spent on the internet. Ranks up there with the day DQIX got announced as a DS exclusive. So many bitter fanboy tears XD

Back to the topic at hand. Read the valleywag article. Definitely. Shows a lot. Fuck CNet. Won't be visiting there ever again and going to be keeping my GameFAQs visits short.
 
it's just that Zelda is supposed to be some sort of amazing industry-changing phenomenon.
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didn't Majora's Mask kill off this perception? man I hated that game.
 
I too loved Majora's Mask more than any other Zelda game in the series, mainly due to its musical score plus incredibly emotional scenes. Individual character interaction was awesome, too. (Edit: though like Firestorm I can agree that the satisfaction of reuniting Anju and Kafei was a bit diminished due to having to go back in time)

As for the issue at hand, I too was angry at the Twilight Princess debacle. Not because it was a good game, but because Gerstmann's logic is terribly faulty and he contradicts himself.(Recommending the Wii version, but giving the Gamecube version a higher score despite lack of widescreen support? Seriously, what the fuck, might want to rethink your scoring system there bud) I don't care about him personally, but his firing has a huge effect on gaming journalism as a whole and as such I really hope a definitive answer can be given. Reviews are becoming less and less trustworthy, and the final straw for gamespot was drawn with me when they gave Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn a 6.9 or something despite the game making significant gameplay tweaks that added a lot of balance and depth. Plus the guy who reviewed it didn't seem to realize there was an easy mode.
 
chaos said:
didn't Majora's Mask kill off this perception? man I hated that game.
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You won't believe the amount of people who call that game the best in the series. I enjoyed it, but the stupid time thing just killed any satisfaction I could have received from playing it. I mean, I spend 3 days reuniting those two idiots and they're finally happy. Then I go back in time and they're just as miserable as they were before.

The Bomber's Notebook was a great idea and I have no idea why they didn't keep implementing it though.
 
lol. I thought Majora Mask was a great game. It was my first console Zelda game. I felt the Masks were a great edition. The time idea was annoying, but it allows you to refight bosses. I haen't play OoT though. I really should. Its the only Zelda console game I haven't play.
 
Firestorm said:
The game is still awesome, but could be better. However, I do disagree with many points Gerstmann made. Anyway, you shouldn't let you dumb Zelda fanboyism get in the way of your judgement on "LOL HE RATED MY GAME 'BAD' FIRED BITCH". Ugh. And seriously, when was 8.8 a bad score? "Oh noes. 2% lower than 90%! FUCK!"

I must admit, that day it got 8.8 was one of the best I've spent on the internet. Ranks up there with the day DQIX got announced as a DS exclusive. So many bitter fanboy tears XD
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Geez did you completely ignore my rant? And yeah that 6.whatever for FE10 was funny. Between that and gamespy giving trauma centre a 5 for being too hard I too am starting to think reviews are becoming worthless.

About my first comment, i made it at 6 AM, not my best time to be reasoning... like i said later i agree he shouldn't be fired for the K&L thing, hence no "fired bitch!" Gonna go ahead and delate that now.

P.S.: Majora is fantastic IMO. Anything less than the whole masks and time travel systems and people would've complained it was the same as OoT!
 
ekans dilos said:
P.S.: Majora is fantastic IMO. Anything less than the whole masks and time travel systems and people would've complained it was the same as OoT!
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Haha, yeah, the Zelda fandom is pretty retarded. We complain games are too similar, and they give us stuff like MM and Wind Waker. Then we whine about how they're too different...:chaos:
 
Steelicks said:
whats this thread about again
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Some guy getting fired because he didn't give a good review to a game that GameSpot is heavily sponsoring.

I don't read GameSpot because most of the time, if I read anything on the site, it pisses me off.
 
ekans dilos said:
Geez did you completely ignore my rant? And yeah that 6.whatever for FE10 was funny. Between that and gamespy giving trauma centre a 5 for being too hard I too am starting to think reviews are becoming worthless.

About my first comment, i made it at 6 AM, not my best time to be reasoning... like i said later i agree he shouldn't be fired for the K&L thing, hence no "fired bitch!" Gonna go ahead and delate that now.

P.S.: Majora is fantastic IMO. Anything less than the whole masks and time travel systems and people would've complained it was the same as OoT!
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I read it. I found it to be the same fanboy drivel as I usually see about the 8.8. I remember not reading the review because Gerstmann was an idiot and put a late-game level in there and someone thankfully warned me beforehand. However, nothing he said in the review warrants being fired. Some of his complaints, as with all GameSpot reviews, were dumb. That's true. However, the game really is an 8.8 game once you get past the hype.

I found Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, and Link's Awakening to be far better games.

And reviews are "becoming" worthless? They were always worthless. Unless you can find a reviewer who has very similar tastes, you can ignore most reviews. I just follow my own tastes for what I've enjoyed in the past, then look at the overall hype for games on the forum I go to (NeoGAF) since I trust the impressions of people there and go with that. Don't go "Hm. GameSpot said it's good so I should play it". GameSpot is not a person, it's a company. And it seems even its reviewers aren't to be trusted as they're all now going to be scared shitless they'll be fired if they do something wrong.

I mean, did any of you see the video review of K&L? It's on YouTube. He makes the game sound like a 3.0 game. I think he gave it 6.0 out of fear or something.
 
Firestorm said:
I read it. I found it to be the same fanboy drivel as I usually see about the 8.8. I remember not reading the review because Gerstmann was an idiot and put a late-game level in there and someone thankfully warned me beforehand. However, nothing he said in the review warrants being fired. Some of his complaints, as with all GameSpot reviews, were dumb. That's true. However, the game really is an 8.8 game once you get past the hype.
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Apparently you didn't read it (or aren't very good at reading comprehension) because I said time and time again i DON'T think that that review (or the K&L one for that matter) warranted getting him fired. I just think it made him less credible as a reviewer. In my opinion TP is a masterpiece, (the games you mentioned, incidently, are ALSO masterpieces) and I thought his reasons for not recognizing TP as one were stupid.

Anyway this has to stop because it's going nowhere... so I'm not gonna reply anymore. This thread needs to get back on topic!
 
You know, if that was the case, I think "Here's the reason he should be fired" and giving a link to the TP review probably wasn't the best idea.
 
This whole mess is just depressing. I was never a big fan of Jeff, but it's terrible that he got fired for doing his job, giving an honest review. Someone needs to call out CNET on this.
 
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