Is Sand Veil Overpowered?

Is Sand Veil Overpowered?

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 26.8%

  • No

    Votes: 102 66.7%

  • Other (Please Post)

    Votes: 10 6.5%
  • Total voters
    153

iPwn

Sand Veil is an ability that increases the evasion of a Pokemon by 20% in a Sandstorm and grants immunity to the passive damage caused by Sandstorm.
In my experiences, teams that use or abuse this ability are both incredibly annoying and incredibly difficult to beat. Garchomp in particular and Gliscor to a lesser extent are the main abusers, and I know that I am not alone when I say that missing a crucial attack and then getting swept by a Swords Dance'd, Life Orb'd Garchomp pisses me off.
I'm not against Sand Veil as an ability (it's a cool idea), nor do I think that the ability is straight out broken and will auto-win matches for a team. The point where I think that it is unfair is that it simply bypasses the Evasion Clause. There is a reason that that got put into place: Luck should not be that large of a factor in battles.
Please use this thread to discuss what you think, as well as strategies that you have personally found to be effective against Sand Veil.
 
I say it is. One battle, I missed with Ice Beam and Ice Punch on 3 different Pokemon consecutively, in which either one of them could have OHKOed it. Hell, the person I was battling didn't even EV train or anything as my Gallade even outsped it >.>
 
articuno1508 said:
Scarfed Aura Sphere, or Speced or a switch-in.
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Yes, that is an option, only problem is that a scarf'd Aura Sphere doesn't OHKO Garchomp or Gliscor and not everyone runs Togekiss and/or Lucario on their team. This lowers your options greatly.

And, only a fool would switch a Garchomp into Aura Sphere. Gliscor can normally handle it due to it's flying type, but it still does about 45-50%.
 
There's only like 5 Pokes IIRC that gets Sand Veil.

Dugtrio should never have Sand Veil, so that one poke check off the list.
Sandslash is too slow to ever contribute anything even if you do miss, cause chances are you have like 8 things on your team that could kill it.
Cacturne could be annoying but is mainly use gimmickly, albeit behind a Sub and with Sucker Punch.
Gliscor doesn't even really rely on it. In fact if I were using a Baton Passing one, I'd rather use Hyper Cutter.

Garchomp seems to be the only one that utilizies it well, given its speed, attack, stat up moves, and good coverage. So with that said, any argument saying it shouldn't "bypass evasion clause" doesn't make sense, cause what are we going to do, ban all Garchomps?

Personally, if the Garchomp is a Sub-varient, in trying to abuse the whole more chances for you to miss thing, a Skarmory or Bronzong comes in handy here. I'd just set up Skarm then WW it later. Bronzong has to attack asap and preferably needs HP Ice as Gyro Ball doesn't even break a Adamant Garchomp's Sub.

If its other varients, you're more likely to hit it, hopefully having a Ice Sharder around somewhere, but note that Donphan has to hit it from about 60%. Other varients normally use Life Orb too, so that ought to help you.
 
Garchomp seems to be the only one that utilizies it well, given its speed, attack, stat up moves, and good coverage. So with that said, any argument saying it shouldn't "bypass evasion clause" doesn't make sense, cause what are we going to do, ban all Garchomps?
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Exactally, what are you going to do? Ban garchomps? Or ban sand storm? Lol, that wont happen. Its an ability, unlike double team or minimize it cant be baton passed and it cant be increased at will. Even if you did think it was bypassing the evasion clause, theres really nothing that can be done about it. Should ice beam / thunderbolt / flamethrower, ect. get banned because theres a chance of hax? Sand Veil does nothing if there is no sand storm, while Ice beam ALWAYS has a chance of freezing you... if you say luck should'nt be a factor AT ALL, then these moves should be removed also right?
 
Yeah, I hate playing against them, but I love using them. So it wouldn't be fair for me to say it's unbalanced. Too bad there aren't any no-miss ice attacks :/
 
Salamaster said:
not at all. it's not really that big of a deal and all the garchomps i've fought dont even use it.
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It seems you havn't battled on shoddy very much. Sand Veil/Brightpowder Garchomps on SS teams are becoming more and more popular by the day.
 
Overpowered no, imbalenced yes. It isnt good in itself because it doesnt DO anything. It doesnt make you win. It DOES make more matches determined by luck.
 
As the poster above said, it is not Overpowered. It is just a matter of luck when used on the required conditions. Now I do think they not allow Brightpowder Garchomp :/
 
everyone has the ability to use it, so really it is fair. if you choose not to use it and your opponent does, that is technically your fault. there is no rule saying you cannot use it. if something in the format is broken, take advantage of it! and no, i am not saying i specifically take advantage of it, i am just saying any time you can take advantage of something broken, do so! if you don't that is not your opponent's fault

EDIT: brightpowder garchomp is a little bit of a stretch, i will admit, as hax items are usually not accepted anyway, and that is a hax item just the same as focus band, etc.
 
Even if it is there are lots of other "overpowered" things in this game. That would be a little too specific in my opinion to ban.
 
Overpowered? No.

Ridiculous? Yes.

Sand Veil has single-handedly ruined many games for me and the opponent. Once particular instance when I had a match won, only to throw it away because of Sand Veil hax, the opponent said to me, "Sand Veil...it's a bad way to lose, and an even worse way to win."

I think he was bang on the money with that one.

It's not so much that I'm pissed off about luck costing me the game...I'll happily laugh it off when something else costs me a game...Sand Veil just seems so unneccesary.
 
I have never seen my mamoswine let me down against a garchomp. Ice shard on their swords dance, cya later garchomp.

Edit: If you're THAT scared, didn't the create something called wide lens?
 
when you lose a match to a 1000 player because of weavile ice punch missing then starmies ice beam missing consecutively and then losing 15 points of your ladder ranking... somethings wrong. ive also lossed 3 other times due to 100% accuracy moves missing on garchomp as the LAST pokemon, all three times with under 10% health left

using 100% accuracy moves is supposed to be a bonus to the user by knowing that your attacks are going to hit. we sacrifice power for accuracy. when these attacks are automatically lowered to 80% it is unfair
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
There's only like 5 Pokes IIRC that gets Sand Veil.

Dugtrio should never have Sand Veil, so that one poke check off the list.
Sandslash is too slow to ever contribute anything even if you do miss, cause chances are you have like 8 things on your team that could kill it.
Cacturne could be annoying but is mainly use gimmickly, albeit behind a Sub and with Sucker Punch.
Gliscor doesn't even really rely on it. In fact if I were using a Baton Passing one, I'd rather use Hyper Cutter.

Garchomp seems to be the only one that utilizies it well, given its speed, attack, stat up moves, and good coverage. So with that said, any argument saying it shouldn't "bypass evasion clause" doesn't make sense, cause what are we going to do, ban all Garchomps?

Personally, if the Garchomp is a Sub-varient, in trying to abuse the whole more chances for you to miss thing, a Skarmory or Bronzong comes in handy here. I'd just set up Skarm then WW it later. Bronzong has to attack asap and preferably needs HP Ice as Gyro Ball doesn't even break a Adamant Garchomp's Sub.

If its other varients, you're more likely to hit it, hopefully having a Ice Sharder around somewhere, but note that Donphan has to hit it from about 60%. Other varients normally use Life Orb too, so that ought to help you.
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I'm not supporting this thought, but banning an entire species of a pokemon is possible. Just ask that wobby fellow.
 
I guess you can say the same for Snow Cloak, right? :)

I have to say Sand Veil is a cheap ability, and I think 20% evasion boost is too much. 10% would be fine, especialyl since hax determines most of the stuff.

It's a great ability but it is overpowered. I enjoy using that & Snow Cloak though.
 
majesty said:
Edit: If you're THAT scared, didn't the create something called wide lens?
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You mean, why don't you use wide lens? It's an overly specific counter to just one threat. And it doesn't even completely fix the problem, either.

Anyways...IMO, it's unfair ("Sand veil is a bad way to lose, worse way to win" sums it up pretty well), but there's not a whole lot that can be done about it except banning it. Overpowered doesn't really feel like the right word for it, though.


Come to think of it, I wonder why we haven't seen any Sandveil abusing Gliscors yet.
 
What about other counters that we've had to deal with before?

Like either making sure you have a Rapid Spinner or Blocker now that Spikes/SR/TS is becoming popular again? Or carrying something to deal with all of the Hera/Breloom/SkarmBliss/Togehax combos? Or heck, even going so far back as to say having a DT-counter?

It just feels like this to me all over again, :/ One Pokémon gets something makes everyone else cry out ban/hax!!, while in game, there ARE definitely counters for it. IMO, it wouldn't have been put in the game if there were no other counters for it... which is why I have no problems playing against anyone on any level. If I'm not carrying something to counter them (or know how to counter them), I'm not doing my job right.
 
I think Sand Veil is really, really annoying. It is not, however, overpowered. If you are unable to put up with it run Magical Leaf, Keen Eye, or Wide Lens on something. SD Skarm can counter Veilchomp and Veilor pretty well with its huge defenses, power, and Keen Eye,
 
Unlike double team (phazing can be evaded), sandveil and snowcloak can easily be countered by changing the weather. What I don't approve is the use of sandveil + brightpowder because weather changing is not a 100% counter.
 
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