Ability Infiltrator

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Hamakua

Hamakua

Infiltrator
Ignores a target's Light Screen, Reflect, Safeguard, Mist or Substitute when attacking.

The Buff
Well. Read above. Infiltrator was already the ability of choice on Crobat, which is nice for ignoring dual screeners. Served as a good ability for wallbreakers. This generation, it will have a HUUUUUGGGEE effect on Crobat and other Pokemon who got it (Also, Noivern gets it). The ability to ignore a Substitute is one of the greatest gifts that could be given. Seeing as this is a very big buff, Substitute should be looked at differently, and an opposing team will be reluctant to use Substitute once they see a Crobat or Noivern on your team.

Substitute Nerf
Of course, this means Substitute got a nerf. Although Infiltrator isn't a very widely distributed ability, is is given to the right Pokemon. This means that, as explained before, if you have a Crobat alive on your team your opponent likely won't be Substitute-ing any time soon.

Viable Infiltrators
I predict that the two primary users of this ability are Noivern and Crobat. Coincidentally, they are both bats, an they both have a very similar stat spread.

Crobat
HP: 85
Atk: 90
Def: 80
SpA: 70
SpD: 80
Spe: 130

Noivern
HP: 85
Atk: 70
Def: 80
SpA: 97
SpD: 80
Spe: 123

Other fully evolved pokemon with Infiltrator are Whimsicott, Jumpluff, Ninjask, Seviper and Spiritomb.

My Opinion
I think that this will really change things. Crobat and Noivern will rise in usage and popularity significantly, and even Spiritomb has the chance to burn things even behind a Substitute with Will-O-Wisp (which also recieved a buff). Like before, you can still break stall, not only with substitute, but with dual screeners and the occasional Safeguard as well. This was an excellent buff to an excellent ability and I really am hoping to see the return of Crobat, this time in OU, hopefully. In conclusion, Infiltrator will have a really big effect on the metagame, and I'm going to be using this thing a lot.
 
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I
Hamakua said:
Infiltrator
Ignores a target's Light Screen, Reflect, Safeguard, Mist or Substitute when attacking.

The Buff
Well. Read above. Infiltrator was already the ability of choice on Crobat, which is nice for ignoring dual screeners. Served as a good ability for wallbreakers. This generation, it will have a HUUUUUGGGEE effect on Crobat and other Pokemon who got it (Also, Noivern gets it). The ability to ignore a Substitute is one of the greatest gifts that could be given. Seeing as this is a very big buff, Substitute should be looked at differently, and an opposing team will be reluctant to use Substitute once they see a Crobat or Noivern on your team.

Substitute Nerf
Of course, this means Substitute got a nerf. Although Infiltrator isn't a very widely distributed ability, is is given to the right Pokemon. This means that, as explained before, if you have a Crobat alive on your team your opponent likely won't be Substitute-ing any time soon.

Viable Infiltrators
I predict that the two primary users of this ability are Noivern and Crobat. Coincidentally, they are both bats, an they both have a very similar stat spread.

Crobat
HP: 85
Atk: 90
Def: 80
SpA: 70
SpD: 80
Spe: 130

Noivern
HP: 85
Atk: 70
Def: 80
SpA: 97
SpD: 80
Spe: 123

Other fully evolved pokemon with Infiltrator are Whimsicott, Jumpluff, Ninjask, Seviper and Spiritomb.

My Opinion
I think that this will really change things. Crobat and Noivern are headed for OU, and even Spiritomb has the chance to burn things even behind a Substitute with Will-O-Wisp (which also recieved a buff). Like before, you can still break stall, not only with substitute, but with dual screeners and the occasional Safeguard as well. This was an excellent buff to an excellent ability and I really am hoping to see the return of Crobat, this time in OU.
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I think you should edit out that they will be OU, as we aren't supposed to mention tiering, just the pokes overall affect on the meta game.
 
Meowstic is also a Pokemon that gets Infiltrator. It's usage will probably be less influential but it's worth adding to the list.

The fact that it ignores substitutes now is pretty great, and easily allows for these Pokemon to cripple Sub users. I don't think Spiritomb will benefit much, since it now has a weakness. If it didn't have that it would have benefited more.
 
Another point is that Jumpluff and Whimsicott also get it, allowing them to Toxic, Powder or Leech Seed through a Sub. Whimsicott might still want Prankster, but Jumpluff might be of more use now.
 
Ashfield said:
Poor Breloom

I can't think off any other Pokémon that got nerfed as hard as him this Gen.
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- Not able to hit grass types with Spore now
- SubPunching is now very risky
- Ghost types see more use, further nerfing SubPunch
- Can't stand up against most mega evos

I really feel sorry for this guy. I can see him being top tier UU but that's also littered with Grass types.
 
Hamakua said:
- Not able to hit grass types with Spore now
- SubPunching is now very risky
- Ghost types see more use, further nerfing SubPunch
- Can't stand up against most mega evos

I really feel sorry for this guy. I can see him being top tier UU but that's also littered with Grass types.
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He had a longer run in top-tier usage than most early Forest pokemon can claim (actually, any that I can think of, atm.)
 
Could Whimsicott use this to some effect? I know it has Prankster, but it's already pretty fast and has Tailwind to boost its speed further if it needs to. Being able to Leech Seed, Stun Spore, etc. through enemy Subs could be useful.
 
DrNeoCortex said:
Could Whimsicott use this to some effect? I know it has Prankster, but it's already pretty fast and has Tailwind to boost its speed further if it needs to. Being able to Leech Seed, Stun Spore, etc. through enemy Subs could be useful.
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Nope. Prankster is pretty much the prime reason to use Whimsicott in the first place. Without it, it HAS to invest in Speed, making its already-average defenses suck even more in exchange for a single specific situation. Even if the opponent uses Substitute, Whimsicott can simply use Encore or Taunt to limit what it's already doing, and its partner Pokemon can act accordingly to the situation.

And yeah, the Infiltrator buff is great and all, but I doubt it'll actually make a big impact on the general view Substitute as the OP implies. Only a few Pokemon can get through Substitute, and...that's about it.
 
Let's not count out Chandy here guys, 145 Sp. Atk LOL'ing its merry way through Subs is something to be afraid of...and Breloom took ANOTHER huge hit, considering poor defenses plus Crobat's 4x resistances to BOTH it's STABs means easy pickings for Crobat. As for Noivern, it's a slightly different Crobat, trading things like Fairy RK'ing prowess and weird resistances for other weird resistances and MF'ing Boombust. I think those three Infiltrator pokes will see some good use this Gen. Oh, and Whimsicott usage will plummet, seeing as these three can all bypass it's SubSeed shenanigans and slam it with SE attacks, not to mention Crobat can use a Poison STAB for 4x damage. Anybody want to throw up a list of all the common Sub users so we can see how well they get Infiltrated?
 
Wow, just looked up everyone that learns subs in gen V. It's a lot.

Do defog buffs + infiltrater buffs mean that I can start running banded adamant Ninjask again without feeling bad?
 
I might be wrong, but I find Noivern and Crobat in the same Team is pretty good! Both with U-Turn to switch out through Subs. Stealth Rock is a big problem and the Ice Weakness, nah dumb Idea...

But maybe, it's good... or even ok..
 
I've always rather liked Spiritomb, and although he gained a weakness in this generation I think the ability to Sucker Punch and Pursuit through an opponent's Substitute makes up for it. The mind games will be delicious.

Crobat gets Hypnosis through breeding, so he'd be one of three Pokemon who can put an opposing pokemon to sleep through their subs, with Spiritomb and Malamar being the other two. I'm thinking of training up an Infiltrator Malamar with hypnosis and naming it Hiyama Ren.

Speaking of Malamar, does Topsy-Turvy go through subs normally? If not, that'd be kind of annoying. I just want my Malamar to completely ruin any possible kind of setup plan.
 
Kairyu_Gen1 said:
Not without infiltrator, which removes contrary, his main claim to fame.
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Fair enough, his stats are rather middling without those superpowers and there's no telling if sub+boosting will be popular enough to really make it worth trying. Especially since there's an entire class of moves that also bypass subs now. Like Boomburst.

Speaking of Boomburst, would a specs Noivern really need infiltrator if he has access to Boomburst, or would it be the other way around? Not that his other abilities are worth using in place of it.
 
TSMP said:
Fair enough, his stats are rather middling without those superpowers and there's no telling if sub+boosting will be popular enough to really make it worth trying. Especially since there's an entire class of moves that also bypass subs now. Like Boomburst.

Speaking of Boomburst, would a specs Noivern really need infiltrator if he has access to Boomburst, or would it be the other way around? Not that his other abilities are worth using in place of it.
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I've been run a specs Noivern and mostly ended up using Draco Meteor. When pokes like Mega Gengar start using substitute left and right, the ability to "infiltrate" its defenses will grow in value. How much remains to be seen.
 
Axa said:
Another point is that Jumpluff and Whimsicott also get it, allowing them to Toxic, Powder or Leech Seed through a Sub. Whimsicott might still want Prankster, but Jumpluff might be of more use now.
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SubSeed Jumpluff was already the most annoying thing but now it can even do it through subs... Hm
*Begins gratuitous use of Sawsbuck on team*
 
Kairyu_Gen1 said:
there's 3 other pokemon in RU with infiltrator (jumpluff and ninjask probably don't count though) and poison type is pretty hard to use. I think it'll be outclassed by golbat that has comparable offenses, better STAB, and more speed.
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While Golbat has a secondary stab, better defensive typing and speed, their offenses are not really comparable. Golbat has 80/65 in it's attacks and Seviper has 100/100 not to mention a fairly good special movepool whereas Golbat has to relay on Bravebird, Super Fang or Toxic to deal significant damage. Seviper also has one of the game's better and somewhat exclusive boosting moves (Coil). I agree Golbat is overall superior, but I feel Seviper will find itself a niche role in the lower tiers.
 
BTW I'm surprised that no one talks about Spiritomb. The ability to Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak even through Substitute means that you show up middle finger to for example Gengar, which is huge. The only way he can avoid your Sucker Punch is by using WoW. If he doesn't carry WoW - Gengar is in tight spot. Also buffed accuracy of WoW, Knock Off and Steels no longer ignoring his STAB attacks means he may easily go with Mono attacking sets again like Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/Dark Pulse for example (and with buff to RestTalk it's good again). Choice Band suddenly looks much better as well. I would say Spiritomb gained some good love this Gen.

Spiritomb also makes a really good check for psychics (even Deoxys-S and normal one for Pokebank), which give him another great niche. Heck, he can somewhat check MegaKangashkan as well. Something worth to test again ;).
 
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Crobat is rather unique (with Seviper) in that it now has a 100% accurate toxic that goes through subs, all while having solid defences and defensive typing.
 
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