Infernape (Attacking Lead)

[BKC]

Hi, this is an Infernape set I came up with awhile back and have had good success with, so I figured I'd submit it to C&C to see their opinions on it.

Infernape

[SET]
name: Attacking Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Grass Knot
item: Focus Sash
nature: Rash
evs: 36 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-defeats the majority of leads today
-can defeat sleep inducing leads without the use of a Lum Berry thanks to Fake Out and its high speed, allowing it to run Focus Sash to take hits from faster leads
-has more coverage than the Stealth Rock suicide lead thanks to Grass Knot, letting it hit bulky leads like Swampert and Hippowdon hard
-can come back later in the game to fire off Blaze-boosted Fire Blasts
-has advantageous matchups against the increasingly common Forretress and Skarmory leads
-is able to defeat anti-lead Starmie, which regular lead Infernape cannot do

Additional Comments
-Hidden Power [Ice] can be used over Grass Knot if your team really fears lead Dragonite, but you lose coverage against Swampert and Hippowdon, which is arguably more important
-Life Orb is optional to get an assured OHKO on Swampert, as well as being able to 2HKO Aerodactyl with Fake Out+Close Combat (if it Earthquakes you, it hasn't set up Stealth Rock, which it exists to do)

Teammates & Counters
-Starmie is a solid teammate, being able to Rapid Spin the Stealth Rock faster leads will set up in Infernape's face. It defeats opposing Infernape leads, which this Ape cannot do because it runs a +SpA nature which is needed to 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon with Grass Knot. It also counters DD Gyarados, who may try to turn this Infernape into setup fodder.
-Lum Metagross is a good partner for setting up Stealth Rock, and after Machamp brings Ape down to the Sash, Metagross can switch in on the Bullet Punch to outrun and pick Machamp off.

I'm open to any constructive criticism, thanks for reading. I'll update the OP as necessary after receiving feedback.

 

[Warped Worlds]

I would definitly slash a speed + nature on Infernape since he was blessed with his own speed tier, and it would be still helpful to outrun additional things. You still obtain the 2HKO on SpD Hippowdon with a Naive nature + Life Orb.

Overall, I am not completely sold on this set. Wouldn't a mention of Grass Knot on the lead Infernape set be good enough? It looks viable, but does it play differently enough from the lead Infernape sets on site for it to require an additional analysis? I could be wrong, I am not QC afterall. However, those are my thoughts at a slight glance.

 

[BKC]

It does play differently. The on-site set focuses on getting up rocks while beating what it can, while this set compromises the ability to SR in order to beat as many leads as possible (ex: hippowdon, swampert, starmie, which the standard lead cannot beat). Naive+Life Orb seems good, I'll edit it in as a slash, but I believe Rash+Sash should be the primary option because it still 2HKOs Hippowdon while being able to beat Starmie and Azelf.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

This is just the regular lead with Grass Knot, which doesn't even do a whole lot to make Infernape a better lead. The difference is that you completely sacrifice the ability to lay down SR in order to beat a couple dubious leads (Starmie's the only "good" one there, and Hippowdon still beats you by surviving Grass Knot and EQing you into a fine powder because of Sandstorm), which affects Infernape's ability to be a good lead. It can still threaten teams without Grass Knot, but losing Stealth Rock means you have to stick it elsewhere on your team.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[Demoness]

-Life Orb is optional to get an assured OHKO on Swampert, as well as being able to 2HKO Aerodactyl with Fake Out+Close Combat (if it Earthquakes you, it hasn't set up Stealth Rock, which it exists to do)

Whats stopping Aerodactyl from using Stealth Rock after Earthquaking Infernape with Life Orb or even switching out and getting them up later?

 

[deinosaur]

Honestly, I don't see how this is any better than the regular lead set.

There are many leads that are meant to take out other leads, and this is pretty well outclassed.

I see almost no reason at all to use this, sorry BKC.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I agree with SDS's sentiment on this set. It forgoes one of the main assets of Infernape in the lead slot (SR) and helps you out very little.

 

[Setsuna]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to vote against the approval of this set, for the reasons that my colleagues stated above. There's really not many other things to add to be honest.

QC REJECTED (2/3)

 

[BKC]

This is just the regular lead with Grass Knot, which doesn't even do a whole lot to make Infernape a better lead. The difference is that you completely sacrifice the ability to lay down SR in order to beat a couple dubious leads (Starmie's the only "good" one there, and Hippowdon still beats you by surviving Grass Knot and EQing you into a fine powder because of Sandstorm), which affects Infernape's ability to be a good lead. It can still threaten teams without Grass Knot, but losing Stealth Rock means you have to stick it elsewhere on your team.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

Hippowdon kills you, and guess what...it doesn't have Stealth Rock up and is hanging at 25% of its health. You can then lay up Stealth Rock with another mon later, while the regular lead lays rocks and dies without accomplishing shit, or it can get a decent Fire Blast off and not get SR.

Whats stopping Aerodactyl from using Stealth Rock after Earthquaking Infernape with Life Orb or even switching out and getting them up later?

Nothing. This is why I said optional, I think its a really inferior option but some people might like it.

Honestly, I don't see how this is any better than the regular lead set.

Regular lead set loses to Starmie, Hippo, Pert, who are all common leads, while this set beats them handily (as I said earlier, Hippo either kills you or lays rocks and is 2HKO'd, while Pert is in an even worse matchup because it can't OHKO you thanks to lack of sandstorm, so it's getting 2HKO'd no matter what, and if it lays rocks, fine, I have an Ape with three great coverage moves and an intact Sash).

 

[DialaceStarvy]

Regular lead set loses to Starmie, Hippo, Pert, who are all common leads, while this set beats them handily

I don't see how it can beat Starmie at all. Fake Out + Grass Knot will almost never manage to KO 4 HP Starmie.

 

[BKC]

I don't see how it can beat Starmie at all. Fake Out + Grass Knot will almost never manage to KO 4 HP Starmie.

Fake Out deals 13.7% - 16.4%
Life Orb is another 10%
Grass Knot does 71.8% - 84.7%
13.7+10+71.8=95%

Unless you roll minimum damage twice, you will KO it.

 

[DialaceStarvy]

If you run Life Orb instead of Focus Sash, then Starmie can KO you before you get to use Grass Knot.

 

[Moo]

If you run Life Orb instead of Focus Sash, then Starmie can KO you before you get to use Grass Knot.

No, he means that Starmie takes 95% minimum from Fake Out and Grass Knot and then dies from Life Orb Damage while Ape is left at 1% hp or full if Hydro Pump misses.

I think it could be worth a mention in Additional Comments on the Lead set if it gets rejected.

 

[Megan_Fox]

I too have to agree with my peers, I don't question the sets viability, but for the reasons SDS stated, I can't see its merit on site.

QC REJECTED (3/3)

 

[Fayne]

This is just the regular lead with Grass Knot, which doesn't even do a whole lot to make Infernape a better lead. The difference is that you completely sacrifice the ability to lay down SR in order to beat a couple dubious leads (Starmie's the only "good" one there, and Hippowdon still beats you by surviving Grass Knot and EQing you into a fine powder because of Sandstorm), which affects Infernape's ability to be a good lead. It can still threaten teams without Grass Knot, but losing Stealth Rock means you have to stick it elsewhere on your team.

I like how Smogon has seperate sets for lead metagross with and without SR. The only additional lead Metagross without SR reliably beats is Infernape, and it must do so by exchanging Lum for Occa, losing it's ability to beat Smeargle/Rose in the process.

Many offensive teams generally have a problem with LO Starmie, and removing ones in lead position (which pose an immediate threat) is a big plus, as it determines who controls the momentum early game.

If Hippowdon EQs, it doesn't get Stealth Rock up you are looking at a Hippo below half health waiting to be forced out/killed by what you send in next. Infernape's partners can take advantage of a weakened Hippo.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I like how Smogon has seperate sets for lead metagross with and without SR. The only additional lead Metagross without SR reliably beats is Infernape, and it must do so by exchanging Lum for Occa, losing it's ability to beat Smeargle/Rose in the process.

Many offensive teams generally have a problem with LO Starmie, and removing ones in lead position (which pose an immediate threat) is a big plus, as it determines who controls the momentum early game.

If Hippowdon EQs, it doesn't get Stealth Rock up you are looking at a Hippo below half health waiting to be forced out/killed by what you send in next. Infernape's partners can take advantage of a weakened Hippo.

Thanks for pointing this out- I've long been interested in reducing redundancy in sets, and this seems like a perfect chance to do it. I'd be all for slashing Earthquake next to Stealth Rock on the current "Lead" set and calling it a day. That's for another day, though. This thread has come to a close. Locking and moving.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I'm not one to push on a thread when I agree with its closing, but I want to chime in that I strongly agree with SDS about reducing the redundancy of on-site sets. I've personally merged the attacking lead set for Metagross into the lead set with ample description as to why you'd run the fourth attack, Earthquake, in AC. I've done something similar with Infernape's lead set by including a mention of Grass Knot to mess up Hippowdon/Starmie since I agree, it really should be there.

Hopefully this helps. If you ever notice other dumb redundancies on-site, I hope that you won't hesitate to bring it to our attention. We'll happily look into it and address it if there's a problem. Cheers.