Monotype Ice mono HO - "roads unsuitable for transport" - Peak #89

[Sijih]

​

Proof of Peak

I cooked up an Ice HO team which I think is pretty solid, so I've posted it here. Also I saw a mirror of my team on ladder and I'm an attention gremlin so I desperately want to claim credit. Team-building process was kind of just pick the best threats of the not-that-many on ice, so I'm not going to go too much into that, but I will mention that this team came from wanting to play Ice but finding that neither balance nor hail offense really felt good to use.

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Here's the reason I wanted to play Ice originally. There's a reason that this thing has >91% usage. On this team, scarf Darmanitan-Galar works well to deal with the fast threats that my team's priority spam can't handle, and works well as a late game cleaner because of its ridiculously high damage output with Gorilla Tactics. The first 3 move slots I'm pretty happy with, as they provide STAB, momentum, and high BP coverage respectively, but I'm not sure about move slot 4. I believe that Stone Edge is the best because it lets me hit opposing Fire and Ice types, but there are arguments to be made for other moves. Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, and Superpower all give me ways to improve my matchup against Steel and Ice instead of Fire and Ice, but between the fact that they come with significant downsides and the fact that I already have two Earthquakes for Steel types, I think that Stone Edge is my best option.


Vanilluxe @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Flash Cannon
I believe that Vanilluxe is the only method I have of winning the matchup against rain, and really Water in general. Snow Warning lets me get rid of rain so that I can take swift-swimmers out without boosting up, and Timid with autotomize lets me outspeed Ludicolo, Seismitoad, and scarf Dracovish even under rain, so that I can OHKO them with a x4 effective freeze dry. Blizzard and Snow Warning combine to give me a ridiculously powerful move, which in conjunction with Never-Melt Ice often does more damage than Flash Cannon even to targets which Flash Cannon hits super effectively. I'm running Never-Melt ice because Vanilluxe is always clicking Ice moves and I don't want a Life Orb to sap my health, and because I really can't see what item would be more useful for Vanilluxe. You could use Aurora Veil with Light Clay over Flash Cannon and Never-Melt Ice, but this would leave my team without a satisfactory answer for Avalugg, as none of my physical attackers can really get through it and Frosmoth can't deal with Avalugg on its own.


Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
Mamoswine is a crucial member of the team and I wouldn't recommend always treating it as a generic suicide lead. Keeping Mamoswine healthy in the back means that it can come in on threatening sweepers, live a hit with focus sash, deal huge damage, and then kill with Ice Shard. If its sash is broken and it can't do this, then Ice Shard coming off of Mamoswine's attack is still great for finishing things off. It's also valid to lead Mamoswine and then just start clicking attacks instead of clicking Stealth Rock, as it's not always expected and there are very few satisfactory switch-ins. All that being said, Stealth Rocks are essential to HO and you should just get those up most of the time.


Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Throat Chop
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Swords Dance
Weavile forms the second part of my priority spam core, and serves as a really high quality sweeper and cleaner. Life Orb is a given on sets like this, and I'm running Adamant over Jolly for extra damage. The only thing which comes to mind when I think about things that I could outrun with Jolly is Gengar, and those normally run scarfs so it doesn't really matter. I should note that it's important to keep this thing around for Corsola-Galar. Corsola-Galar really annoys physical attackers and there are some sets that can shut down Frosmoth and Vanilluxe, so sometimes you'll have to use Weavile to SD through the Strength Saps and burns and kill Corsola-Galar, so that you can prevent it from sucking up all your momentum. I know that it seems stupid to use Weavile like that in the Ghost matchup, but Corsola-Galar can really be a roadblock to progress.


Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- Defog
Frosmoth provides a second special side to my team's offensive potential. Heavy-Duty boots are there so that rocks don't completely annihilate it, and the move-set is fairly straightforward. Frosmoth can often suicide defog on things it can't OHKO to make it easier for my sashed mons and to make webs less dangerous, but Giga Drain works if you're not worried about hazards and if you want an additional wincon against water and rock. Hurricane is bad because it's only necessary for fighting types, which will Mach Punch through Frosmoth's paper thin physical bulk anyways. Always set Frosmoth up on special attackers, as Ice Scales allows you to eat up special attacks incredibly well, and after two Quiver Dance boosts the game is often over.


Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
Last, but definitely not least, Cloyster. Setting up Cloyster is absolutely crucial to winning both the Ice and Fire type matchups, and it's a stellar cleaner against basically any type when the enemy team is weakened. Shell Smash, Icicle Spear, and Rock Blast are all givens, and I'm running Ice Shard because I thought it would be helpful to complete the priority spam core and to avoid mind games with weakened sucker punch users. Liquidation is an option I haven't explored too much, but it could be helpful for the Steel matchup. Sash is used to let Cloyster set up safely, and considering that most things just die instantly I don't think that Kings Rock's 40.9% flinch rate is meaningful enough to displace focus sash.​

I figures that I would add a little bit about matchups, so here:

Bad offensive matchups

Ice - Largely a race to satisfy two conditions: 1.) Who can weaken the other's Mamoswine first, and 2.) Who can get Cloyster safely set up first. If you keep these two things in mind, then it should be good. Frosmoth can also be an alternate win condition, as at +2 it outspeeds scarf Darmanitan-Galar. If a Cloyster does set up on you then hope that it doesn't have Liquidation so that your Mamoswine can get it low enough for a x4 resisted Ice Shard to kill.

Water - Basically what I outlined with Vanilluxe, and you can make the Giga Drain change on Frosmoth if you need to. Toxapex is a huge drain on your momentum, and if it toxics Vanilluxe (which can't OHKO it and sometimes can't 2HKO it) the game is over. Because of this you'll need to keep either Mamoswine or Darmanitan-Galar around to kill Toxapex, except if your opponent is running CB Barraskewda, when you should keep Mamoswine's sash intact for that instead.

Bad defensive matchups

Rock - This matchup kind of sucks, but the fact that it doesn't resist your STAB means that if you keep up enough offensive pressure (as you should with an HO team) you'll probably be OK. Giga-Drain on Frosmoth can also help with this matchup, but I can't really say too much as I haven't run into Rock once.

Fighting - I truly hate this matchup. Everything on your team dies to Mach Punches. The counter to this is the fact that Ghost is so common in this meta.

Bad on both fronts

Steel - This matchup is also terrible, but Earthquake spam is your savior. If up against a Corviknight then the best option is to try to beat it with Vanilluxe Blizzards, and if the Corviknight is SpD then hope for a freeze. Lucario is a huge threat which you need sash Mamoswine to deal with, and Cloyster is deadweight because it can't hit steels and because the amount of priority available to Steel means that 1hp cleanups won't happen.

Fire - This matchup isn't as bad because you have a lot of things that can hurt Fire types. Earthquakes from Mamoswine and Darmanitan-Galar are as valuable as ever, and Cloyster completely decimates with Rock Blast.

Finally:

Import

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Vanilluxe @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Flash Cannon

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Throat Chop
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Swords Dance

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- Defog

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast

 

[Conflux]

Hi there, solid team for the most part, but I got a few suggestions.

Major Changes
Frossmoth -> Lapras
->
Frosmoth is pretty underwhelming, despite having a cool ability letting it eat up special hits very well, and access to Quiver Dance and Defog, it lacks good coverage and loses pretty easily to stuff like Toxapex and gets revenge killed pretty easily due to its poor Speed and physical bulk. Lapras gives you a Water immunity, most notably against Dracovish which you have no switch-in for, and its Freeze Dry is amazing against Water which you listed as a troublesome matchup. Although it's weaker than Frossmoth, its bulkier, has better coverage, and gives you an important Water immunity.

Vanilluxe -> Galarian Mr. Mime
->
Removing Frosmoth leaves you without hazard removal which is important for Ice-type teams, that's why Mr. Mime is my next suggestion due to its access to Rapid Spin. Vanilluxe isn't that good right now, especially as an Autotomize sweeper. Its main niche is to set up Aurora Veil, however its low Speed and poor coverage makes it not really worth using. You can run Double Choice Scarf with Mr. Mime since it has a great base 100 Speed tier, can get off a fast Rapid Spin, and outspeeds threats such as Galarian Darmanitan and ties Choice Scarf Charizard. It also has STAB Psychic to threaten Fighting-types, and Focus Blast to hit Steel-types.

Minor Changes
Darmanitan

You definitely want Flare Blitz on this thing, it's amazing coverage for Ice-type teams to deal with threatening Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Corviknight, and it's great against opposing Ice teams which you also mentioned as a bad matchup. Drop Stone Edge as it's pretty useless.

Weavile

Don't really need both Icicle Crash and Ice Shard on a Swords Dance set, especially since it's an Ice-type team, meaning there's no shortage of Ice-type coverage. Instead of Icicle Crash use Low Kick to hit stuff like Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Snorlax.


[click on the sprites above for importable]

Hope you like my suggestions and good luck with the team!

Edit: Just realized from Splash's rate that Weavile was Adamant, didn't catch that at first but yeah, definitely run Jolly.

 

[Splash]

Hi there, don't have a lot to add as most most of my thoughts / opinions on the team are in line as to what Confluxx has wonderfully stated.

First, I do recommend having Vanilluxe on the team, however rather than an Autotomize sweeper, it can be utilized more as a utility attacker. Aurora Veil support alongside Light Clay can aid both your Shell Smash Cloyster and Swords Dance Weavile in setting up more easily, as well as provide the team with the luxury of taking all attacks better. Taunt allows Vanilluxe to stop passive Pokemon from getting up hazards, as well as stop impending status and recovery. Blizzard and Freeze-Dry round out the set.

Secondly on a more minor note, I do believe running a Jolly Nature on both Mamoswine and Weavile allow you to outpace more threats and provide alot more than just the 10% extra damage Adamant provides. With a Jolly Nature, Mamoswine will be able to outspeed many threats, most notably Jolly Bisharp which would otherwise OHKO Mamoswine with Iron Head. Adamant Weavile can be useable as there is not a lot that outspeeds it, but note that it cannot to outpace Timid Gengar, Cinderace, and Adamant Barraskewda outside of the rain.


Lastly Liquidation is much more useful here than Ice Shard, being more effective vs Steel teams as you mentioned, as well as do more damage to notable Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, Bronzong, and Aegislash among others. In addition it provides the Ice team with a solid win condition for any Rock teams running around. With Aurora Veil support on the team, common forms of priority such as Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak will often not knock you out due to Cloyster's massive Defense stat backed by Veil.

Sets/Team

https://pokepast.es/3e9ace660e1ed89f

 

[mushamu]

Hey, I know two other people have posted above me and I'm not someone who posts in this forum frequently, but I think I have a set of changes that better suits the "hyper offensive" style of the team. One important thing about my set of changes is that it includes Froslass, which I think is a staple on hyper offensive Ice, the main idea of what you are trying to go for. Some of these changes are similar, but some of them are different.

Flare Blitz > Stone Edge
My first change would be to run Flare Blitz over Stone Edge on Galarian Darmanitan. You absolutely want to be able to hit Steel-type Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Aegislash, and Corviknight when you're Ice, and Galarian Darmanitan definitely has the power to back it up. It's not like Stone Edge hits anything Icicle Crash doesn't anyways, so dropping it is fine here.

set

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

>
My second change would be to change Vanilluxe to Galarian Mr. Mime. Galarian Mr. Mime provides Rapid Spin support for your team, which is crucial for an Ice team which hates Stealth Rock primarily, alongside other hazards, namely Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes that make it hard for the team to function. A Choice Scarf lets Galarian Mr. Mime serve as speed control, outspeeding Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Excadrill, Dracovish, and Duraludon. Freeze Dry hits Water-type Pokemon and is good in general against Water, which is invaluable, while Focus Blast is good for Steel-type Pokemon. Being good against Water is crucial especially when you're dropping Vanilluxe, and should be noted that leading with it against Water is usually fairly safe. Since you're going for Hyper Offense, having a Choice Scarf locked into Rapid Spin seems iffy, which sometimes can be. This is why I recommend you use Trick on it in order to cripple other Pokemon and helps Galarian Mr. Mime be less of a momentum drain. This helps setup sweepers like Cloyster and Weavile tremendously, as they worry less about walls like Toxapex and Corviknight and can both find more setup opportunities. It should be noted that Galarian Mr. Mime forms a good Choice Scarf core with Galarian Darmanitan, so together they wear down shared checks and beat teams. Since we're not running Aurora Veil anymore, Screen Cleaner is fine here to help break down types that run Screens support, since Hyper Offensive builds especially hate dealing with them.

set

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Freeze-Dry
- Focus Blast
- Rapid Spin

>
Froslass is, in my opinion, the epitome of Hyper Offense on Ice. Being able to set Spikes is especially great for sweeping the opposing team. You definitely don't need Frosmoth here, we have Galarian Mr. Mime for the Rapid Spin and then Froslass's Taunt also helps keep those pesky hazards away. Shadow Ball is great here, being able to hit a nuisance to a lot of hazard setters in Hatterene is huge for getting up Spikes against Psychic and Fairy teams. It is recommended that you generally lead with Froslass, prevent opposing leads with Taunt, stack up Spikes, then try to take a Pokemon out with Destiny Bond. Since Galarian Mr. Mime isn't exactly reliable at removing hazards, having Froslass to Taunt hazard setters is especially important.

set

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond

Minor changes

Jolly > Adamant
Jolly is better on Weavile even if you have a Swords Dance set because it lets you outspeed Pokemon like Ribombee, Gengar, and Salazzle which is amazing. It's not like you need the power for anything either.


Oblivious > Thick Fat
Oblivious is better here since it lets you get up Stealth Rock against Taunt users, namely Froslass and Sableye that prevent it from doing so otherwise. Since Ice is in one of your bad offensive matchups, this should help tremendously. Don't need a Jolly nature on Mamoswine in my opinion, there's nothing you'd want to outspeed seeing as Bisharp runs Adamant for the stronger Sucker Punch and being able to use Earthquake after Cloyster Shell Smashes is useful too.

Final team:

Hyper Offense Ice

Importable

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Throat Chop
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Swords Dance

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Focus Blast

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1055008264
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1055010771
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1055017918
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1055017478
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1055021803

No matter whos suggestions you take, I wish you luck with the team!