How to build Teams in Platinum

RaikouLover

is a Contributor Alumnus
Hey everyone, its RaikouLover here trying to open up a Stark discussion.

Every since the triumph of my favorite Team RaikouLover (it has its thread from a while back), I have enjoyed the whole teambuilding process of picking a given strategy, choosing pokemon to advance that strategy and executing it in battle. In my opinion, it shows the most skill and preparedness when you have your gameplan and your pieces in all the right places. However, Platinum has really thrown me for a loop and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I find it damn near impossible to build a consistent balanced set-up team and I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips to how to do this. So I am opening up discussion...

Things to consider when building a Team that are new to Platinum:

Trick: My biggest gripe about this new Metagame. Trick forces you to carry Choice users or a designated "trick" taker because there is almost nothing you can do to stop this thing. Obviously Trick isn't new, but the sheer number of pokemon that learn it now is ridiculous (seriously, fucking Cresselia!!!??).

Scizor: Yup, this guy ruins everything. Now I am not suggesting for a second that Scizor is too powerful or that hes overcentralizing the metagame so don't take those words out of my mouth. However, Scizor has made it damn near impossible to create most set-up teams. In fact, Scizor has almost single handedly created a massive second wave of priority craze in the community (Aldarons SD Luke started it all...). I've seen teams with 4 priority users, making set-up teams epic fail. How am I supposed to create a team that sets up a certain pokemon when its sweep will get ruined anyway?

Heavy Stall: In my honest opinion, stall has become even more annoying (thanks alot Obi) because of the new Rotoms. Unlike Spritomb and Dusknoir, these guys have fantastic movepool and can be tailored to offense or defense, meaning spinning is a total bitch and usually non-existant... great.

Heavy Offense: I've made a couple of these teams for Platinum and tried them out and I must say that it is a hell of a lot easier to place 5 sweepers on a team with a suicide lead and just battle and win then it is to execute a strategy now, all because of a combination of what I've mentioned above.



So with these factors considered, its no wonder that 90% of teams are Scizor, Heatran, Zapdos, and three anonymous pokemon. Yes, it works but it takes the "fun" out of the team building aspect, at least from my point of view. Yes it is about winning, but winning should be about the tactics you use and the strategy of plays that you run, rather than a guess game between identical teams. So let me give you all an example of one of my teams (no, you don't have to rate it.. this is for discussion purposes):


My strategy was Toxic Spikes, and to abuse Crobat, wearing down pokemon for a lategame sweeper. It has one of the best winning ratios of the platinum teams I've constructed, but that ratio is fucking shitty compared to my D/P teams.

------------------------------------------
Roserade / Venomoth @ Focus Sash
*Grass Knot / Bug Buzz
*HP Fire
*Toxic Spikes
*Sleep Powder

So, need a toxic spiker to execute the strategy. I switch off with Roserade and Venomoth, depending on how I feel in the day because they do the same thing just as well.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
*Thunderbolt
*Overheat
*Rest
*Sleep Talk

Need a spin blocker. Wanted something sturdy with a good movepool that could counter a few things. Added RestTalk for survivability.

Crobat @ Leftovers
*Brave Bird
*Substitute
*Roost
*Taunt

Needed something to abuse Toxic Spikes, provide some speed, and counter a few things.

Heatran @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
*Fire Blast
*Earth Power
*Dragon Pulse / Explosion
*Stealth Rock

Switched off and on between BaitTran and Scarftran. Need some resistances and Stealth Rock.

Swampert @ Leftovers
*Waterfall
*Curse
*Rest
*Sleep Talk

Wanted something sturdy that could be a pain to take down as poison damage adds up. Also, must have a counter to the #1 pokemon.

Lucario @ Life Orb
*Close Combat
*Stone Edge
*Extremespeed
*Swords Dance

Needed a strong finisher. Stone Edge patched up offensive holes. Completed the team.
--------------------------------------------------

Now, there is an example of one of my "strategy" teams for platinum. However, again it does kind of shitty in practice because too many things can ruin it (like fucking Trick and Heavy Offense).

So these are some things to think about. I want suggestions on how to go about creating teams that play into a strategy and be successful. To be clear, I AM NOT PREACHING ANTI-OU, so I don't want to hear anything about that. I just want to hear pokemon that conform to a strategy and possible suggestions to help me overcome this team building "block". Thanks! Discuss!
 
I'd like to note that Gastrodon recently became a more attractive option in this metagame.

-Sticky hold allows him to come in on Trickers and force them to switch
-He stops Heatran, Zapdos(the 75% that don't have hp grass), and any scizor who isn't running X-scissor (about half of them).
 
Your comment about Trick made me think: If you Trick a Choice Band onto something that's giving you another Choice item, shouldn't you become locked in Trick? I think it's how it works in-game.
 
I think that is a disrepetancy between Shoddy and the cartridges. In Shoddy, once you have used Trick, you are free to choose a new attack next turn no matter what.

EDIT: I might expand this post and address the new team making problems a bit later lol. It doesn't really tie in with the OP atm.
 
With the advent of mass Trickers in the metagame, I've played around with the idea of using teams designed to disrupt the strategy of opposing teams. People who have battled me on Shoddy or Wifi will know of my infatuation with TrickScarf Smeargle leads that can cripple most things early in a match. Combined with another TrickScarfer or two with bulky sweepers rounding out the rest of the team, the strategy seems to be somewhat successful.

I was wondering if anybody has any opinions on this type of gameplay.
 
Scizor, and many more priority users, fail to hit Lucario for super effective, or even neatral damage. Disregarding Vacuum Wave, the regularly sighted Ice Shard and Bullet Punch are resisted, compliments of Lucario's Steel-type. This broadly explains why Lucario is the most desirable recepitant in a "Baton Pass chain".

The "element of suprise" is valued as one of the most proficient aspects in the game today. It is not what we would call a "strategy", but it's a fine prospect in the one goal we all target to achieve -- victory.

Imagine laddering with a bizarrely-created team. Your unorthadox Tyranitar lead, accompanied with Focus Sash, survives the opposing Close Combat from Lucario. Unexpectedly, Tyranitar remains on the field and responds with a shattering Earthquake, OHKOing Lucario.

The next lead is so unpredictable. The question appears, will I be able to execute my unfamiliar strategy with the next opponent that comes along?

Generally speaking, you measure your team's strategic ability through victories and defeats. Should you lose more often than not, you would be inclined to believe your team performed poorly, and vice-versa. In the metagame we compete in today, there is no accurate way of determining how effective your team is, which therefore provides you with no definate answer to how effective your strategy is, and that then makes you question your own team building ability.

So long as your team is efficiently built, without minor errors (ie: sloppy EVing) which may otherwise prove to be a problem, you're basically on a similar level as everyone else.
 
As far as trick go, I love giving something slow like Porygon2 or Bronzong Lagging Tail so their TrickGar or Azelf goes last. So much fun...

However, I never really suffer from Trickusers (maybe just because I don't stall). But whenever my Mamo, Gyarados, Tentacruel, Zapdos or whatever comes in on Trick. It's so easy to abuse, and make the foe regret using it in the first place.

Priority moves are very annoying however. So many awesome SubBerry users (yanmega, empoleon, rhyperior) all end up getting screwed by these priority moves. I still don't understand how a "vacuum wave" or a "bullet punch" works. Isn't a vacuum pulling in, not shooting out? Why not just shoot a punch that fast all the time? though, I don't understand how you shoot water either.
 
Yeah I saw that RMT with that Trick Smeargle Yoda. I've been using that in DP (of course no Trick) before Platinum, yeah, yeah I know I should be talking about Plat. Still, it is a nice lead, Spore possible Trick leads while Tricking an item to well... you know those Suicide leads and what not.

A cool concept imo.

Team building, one must also be aware about all of those Salamences as well.

As for something against priority, lets take a look at all the types in which priority moves are given, idk if that makes sense lol but I'll make sense here. EX: Aqua Jet:Water. E-Speed/Quick Attack/Fake Out:Normal. Bullet Punch: Steel. Vacuume Wave/Mach Punch: Fighting. Ice Shard:Ice. Shadow Sneak: Ghost. Sucker Punch: Dark. A builder, to me, should be able to make a team resisting (or at least taking well) each/most of the priority moves listed. As for the example team you posted... well you did a good job in that department I must say. I can go on on what pokemon would be best in taking priority moves for your team to prevent revenge killing in the process... but I'm not because that would take too much typing and obviously your not stupid in not knowing what pokemon resists these priority moves

Hope this helps... and on the discussion.
 
  1. heatran
  2. scizor
  3. salamence
  4. zapdos
  5. blissey
  6. gyarados
  7. lucario
  8. gengar
  9. tyranitar
  10. shaymin-s
  11. metagross
  12. infernape
    [*]swampert
  13. bronzong
  14. azelf

*hit by toxic spikes

Tell me, why would anyone take two turns to set up toxic spikes?
 
Actually, that's EXACTLY why I use TSpikes. I use SubPetaya Empoleon as my main sweeper, and having TSpikes support lets it beat Celebi, Suicune, Blissey, and a ridiculous amount of other stuff.
 
Trickers by far are the most annoying thing to come out Platinum, with practically every Psychic pokemon possesing this move they tend to screw over alot of strategies. I agree with RaikouLover priority has taken a step over bounds 3 Dragon Dance Dragonite is koed by a simple Bullet Punch it's hardly worth time to set up anymore.

I am also opposed to Mence getting freaking Outrage, the only that set him and Dragonite apart is gone and now other than support Mence is superior in all ways.
 
An advert for the return of the Bulky Gyarados...

"Tired of those Scizors and Lucarios running around ruining your fun? Fed up of being Bullet Punched and Extremesped every time you dance the dragon? New, exclusive, BULKY GYARA! Dragon Dance up and laugh at all priority attacks...
As an added bonus, we will throw in a free Leftovers, ABSOLUTELY FREE..."

:toast:
 
Even Gyarados will get worn down by priority attacks unless it is a RestTalk DDer, which is not a main sweeper for a team.

And Chou, I wouldn't dismiss the usefulness of Toxic Spikes, as if you continue down the list you will see a TON of defensive pokemon (namely Hippowdown, Suicune, Vaporeon, Celebi) that are hindered by Toxic Spikes. Three of those I just mentioned are usually 1/2 of Stall teams. Just add Blissey!
 
Great Thread here.

As I see it, any Pokemon that is considered to be the late game sweeper has to be able to take on Scizor. In Platinum's early stages, I attempted building a team around Rock Poish T-Tar, who is certainly not a joke. He ohkos an insane amount of Pokemon, with fantastic speed to boot. It sounded great in theory, but the team failed horribly, solely because of Scizor and his Bullet Punch. In summary, I think one should never base a team around a single Pokemon that Scizor defeats quite easily, Tyranitar being a good example. I'm not saying Tyranitar isn't still one of the best; I'm saying he doesn't wreck stuff late game like he used to.

Trick can be evil. Teams should always be equipped with ways to handle Trick users, my favorite being Pursuit. Because many of these Pokemon carrying Trick are weak to Pursuit, if you can catch, say Gengar (who leads as a TrickScarfer quite often) early game stuck on a Shadow Ball as you bring in your Tyranitar, Snorlax, Metagross, etc., your Trick worries for that match are likely over. I have very rarely seen multiple Trickers on the same team.

I'd like to point out something regarding T-Spikes... I used to lead with Roserade / Venomoth as well, but I've found that by going for T-Spikes early in Pt, you often dig yourself a whole that is hard to climb out of. I run a T-Spikes Tentacruel on my Stall Team, but I don't T-Spike until later in the match when I'm sure that they will help me win.
 
RaikouLover said:
Even Gyarados will get worn down by priority attacks unless it is a RestTalk DDer, which is not a main sweeper for a team.
Click to expand...
Max Atk +1 LO Bullet Punch from Scizor after Intimidate only deals 104-122 which is 20%-25% after factoring Leftovers. A 4HKO at best while taking 40% damage from recoil. Gyarados can 2HKO after a DD or OHKO after 2 DDs and attempt a sweep.

Lucario can only OHKO Gyarados with +1 LO Stone Edge who in return is OHKO'd by EQ.

Max Atk CB Mamoswine can manage 28%-33% at best with Ice Shard, 19%-22% after Intimidate, and is OHKO'd by a +1 Waterfall.

Of course, this all adds up, especially with SR, but don't forget that Leftovers helps a lot in its bulkiness and essentially scores a free turn after each KO. It's no Zapdos, but it's probably the next best thing.
 
Your comment about Trick made me think: If you Trick a Choice Band onto something that's giving you another Choice item, shouldn't you become locked in Trick? I think it's how it works in-game.
Click to expand...
You are correct

Test (Platinum).
Choice Scarf Latias and Choice Band Darkrai vs Ponyta and Rapidash
Darkrai uses Dark Void, both Ponyta and Rapidash go to Sleep.
Latias used Trick on Darkrai
Darkrai got Scarf, Latias got Band

Next turn
Choice Band locks Latias into Trick
Choice Scarf locks Darkrai into Dark Void.
 
One thing that I feel you should mentioned in team building is leads and dealing with them. One of the keys to my primary team is the fact that lead (subseed) Skymin abuses most suicide leads (not Aerodactyl) pretty badly, letting me remove their spiker quickly and then Rapid Spin later in the battle. Having SR when my opponent does not is a big advantage. Leads and dealing with leads is such a major part of the current metagame that it almost begs to be mentioned in a team-building thread.
 
As for set-up teams, Empoleon is basically the only set up sweeper that I've gotten to work, and I've tried a fair few. 4x resisting Scizor Bullet Punch, 2x resisting almost every other priority in the game means Empoleon can still take on these threats unless you have like 4 priority attackers or something.

Stall being viable I think is a plus... I like stall :P
 
I like stall as well, but the biggest issue I have is against total stall teams packing a Ghost. In addition to not being able to Rapid Spin, I also find it extremely difficult to break walls when such teams have an answer switch-in to most anything.

I can understand prediction plays a large role in most any battle, but with near-immediate entry hazards, means to prevent removal of said hazards, and a wall to switch into most every current threat (which in most cases is completely unphazed by the opposition), a stall team has the advantage by receiving, for the most part, little consequence and little room for error in predicting incorrectly. The same cannot be said for any other non-stall team facing it, whereas entry hazards amplify the consequence of misprediction.

Then again, it could be just my problem. Sorry if my post was a little long-winded.
 
At the moment, I'm getting sick of seeing the same teams over and over again. Where's the diversity? I don't want to see these boring same old teams over and over again. Sure, they might work, but it's real boring when every single person you face has nearly identical mons. Platinum added a whole lot into the game... perhaps a little TOO much. Cooler folks like Dragonite are being rejected simply because their counterparts does nearly the same things they do, but better. Things that were once a pokemon's speciality are being distributed among everything. (Trick and outrage being the prime examples) One of the key thing that Alakazam was known for (trick) is distributed amongs nearly every foresaken thing out there, leaving poor zam in the dust.

And I totally agree with priority moves ruining most of the point of setting up. There's virtually no point in messing around with things like Dragon Dance and Agility, since someone will just come in and Priority your ass. You Thunder wave their entire team, you sacrifice all your pokemon in order to get 2 dragon dances for your Salamence. And what happens? Scizor comes in and ruins the fun. Priority moves is basically mandatory for every single team nowadays, and the game is slowly centralizing around the 10 or so pokemons at the top. If your team doesn't contain at least 4 of those, you're screwed.
 
Birdy said:
Things that were once a pokemon's speciality are being distributed among everything. (Trick and outrage being the prime examples) One of the key thing that Alakazam was known for (trick) is distributed amongs nearly every foresaken thing out there, leaving poor zam in the dust.
Click to expand...

Alakazam made it to OU this month despite that, though. Last month it was top BL, this month it has become OU. I don't particularly like how widespread Trick has become either, but I think the new Platinum installment help to balance each other out.

Stall got a massive improvement with the Rotom forms, but the myriad Trick users help to counter Stall. Salamence is a menace with Outrage; Scizor makes a great revenge killer, etc.

Birdy said:
Priority moves is basically mandatory for every single team nowadays, and the game is slowly centralizing around the 10 or so pokemons at the top. If your team doesn't contain at least 4 of those, you're screwed.
Click to expand...

Actually, I made it into the top 20 using a team that contained not a single pokemon in the top 14, and the only priority attacks I had in my team were Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet =P.
 
I'm using a Rain team in Pt now, and loving it. Predictable Electrode lead with two sweepers, Kingdra (Yay Outrage!) and Ludicolo has made for a team that, when it wins, it dominates.

Honestly, I think a well-designed, offensive Rain team can beat any team out there. The sweepers are always Water, and so resist Bullet Punch, Kingdra's +1 Waterfall in the Rain OHKOs a lot of Standard threats, and, +1 LO Outrage does a s**tload to Celebi, one of the banes of the Rain team.

Platinum tutors have helped many Rain abusers: Kingdra gets Outrage, Omastar gets Earth Power, Floatzel gets Ice Punch and Kabutops gets Superpower. Any of those guys can do some serious damage to a team with Rain pouring down. All you need is someone to take out Grasses and Ice-types (or Grass-Ice types, Abomasnow!) a la Scarf Heracross, and you're set. Rain Dance FTW.
 
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