Houndoom (Mixed) +

Caelum

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I saw VIL using a really cool mixed Houndoom on his stall team (this thing says fuck you Rotom-h so great for stall teams) so I modified it a bit and I've had great results with it. My computer is being stupid and not letting me save this right now so that's basically why I'm posting this now since I have to leave in a bit. Will update.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/houndoom

[SET]
name: MixDoom
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Mild
evs: 80 Atk / 212 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Houndoom's excellent base 110 Special Attack stat, many will often overlook Houndoom's quite respectable base 90 Attack stat. The primary reason to make use of Houndoom's Attack stat is because of its access to STAB Sucker Punch and Pursuit, allowing it to be an effective revenge killer for weakened foes and the Ghosts and Psychics of the tier. While it does require some prediction to use properly, if you can predict correctly whether to use Sucker Punch or Pursuit, Houndoom can make an excellent revenge killer. Flamethrower or Fire Blast complements the set for a STAB Fire option and the Hidden Power of choice is for coverage. Electric helps to take on Water Pokemon, excluding Starmie who will take more damage from Sucker Punch, and Hidden Power Ground helps combat Heatran and Infernape. Hidden Power Fighting is your best option against Tyranitar and is a likely 2HKO against 252 HP Tyranitar with Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>216 Speed EVs allow Houndoom to outrun neutral nature base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Adamant Lucario and Modest Porygon-Z. 80 Attack EVs guarantee that maximum HP, maximum Defense Rotom-appliance is 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch or 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch and then Pursuit, if it attempts to switch; assuming Stealth Rock damage. Additionally, the 80 Attack EVs allow Houndoom to OHKO Azelf with Sucker Punch if it has taken Stealth Rock damage. The remaining EVs were delegated to Special Attack.</p>
 
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Houndoom's excellent base 110 Special Attack stat, many will often overlook Houndoom's quite respectable base 90 Attack stat. The primary reason to make use of Houndoom's Attack stat is because of Houndoom's access to STAB Sucker Punch and Pursuit, allowing it to be an effective revenge killer for weakened foes and the Ghosts and Psychics of the tier. While it does require some prediction to use properly, if you can predict correctly whether to use Sucker Punch or Pursuit, Houndoom can make an excellent revenge killer. Flamethrower or Fire Blast complements the set for a STAB Fire option, and the Hidden Power of choice is for coverage. Electric helps to take on Water Pokemon, excluding Starmie who will take more damage from Sucker Punch, and Hidden Power Ground helps <I might omit "to"> combat Heatran and Infernape.</p>

<p>216 Speed EVs allow Houndoom to outrun neutral nature base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Adamant Lucario and Modest Porygon-Z. 80 Attack EVs guarantee that maximum HP, maximum Defense Rotom-appliance is 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch or 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch and then Pursuit, if it attempts to switch. Additionally, the 80 Attack EVs allow Houndoom to OHKO Azelf with Sucker Punch; if it has taken Stealth Rock damage. The remaining EVs were delegated to Special Attack.</p>

Looks good, just minor nitpicks. I also faced this set and it is really good.

Crap I was just informed it's OHKOed, not OHKO'd, thanks Stellar.
 
Surely Hidden Power fighting is neccesary?

Otherwise Tyranitar is going to stall you and KO (possibly) You?

Also I love you for showing an intrest in Houndoom.
 
@jimbo: thanks

@C. Falcon: Added. Forgot to put it initially actually. And Houndoom is cool :D
 
This is just personal opinion, but I would probably switch the order of Hidden Power to Ground / Electric / Fighting. Heatran is the most common Pokemon at this point, so I think Ground deserves a bit more of a mention.
 
Stellar said:
This is just personal opinion, but I would probably switch the order of Hidden Power to Ground / Electric / Fighting. Heatran is the most common Pokemon at this point, so I think Ground deserves a bit more of a mention.
Click to expand...

Fighting hits Heatran and Tyranitar Super Effective... so surely that should be last... as Fighting does it slightly worse but hits another big threat for 4x effective..
 
OK, I only have two problems with this set.

Rash?? Um, why? You are lowering Houndoom's higher defensive stat. That, and the purpose of this set is to take on Azelf and Rotom-H, don't you think you should at least be able to take one weaker hit from them if the situation arises? Use Mild, any strong physical attack OHKOs Houndoom anyways.

You could also have Beat Up for Blissey. Interestingly enough, it works off base stats, so as long as you have plenty of team members alive and healthy, you can 2HKO Blissey regardless of the EV spread. Could be fun for catching it on the switch in.

Like, say you have a team of Azelf, Houndoom, Salamence, Gengar, Scizor and Zapdos. Beat Up would do from 71.57-81.11% if all team members were healthy. Even if you only have three or four healthy it 2HKOs.
 
Caelum said:
I saw VIL using a really cool mixed Houndoom on his stall team (this thing says fuck you Rotom-h so great for stall teams) so I modified it a bit and I've had great results with it. My computer is being stupid and not letting me save this right now so that's basically why I'm posting this now since I have to leave in a bit. Will update.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/houndoom

[SET]
name: MixDoom
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Expert Belt
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Rash/Mild
evs: 80 Atk / 212 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Houndoom's excellent base 110 Special Attack stat, many (removed will) often overlook Houndoom's quite respectable base 90 Attack stat. The primary reason to make use of Houndoom's Attack stat is because of its (removed Houndoom's) access to STAB Sucker Punch and Pursuit, allowing it to be an effective revenge killer for weakened foes and the Ghosts and Psychics of OU (removed "of the tier"). While it does require some prediction to use properly, if you can predict correctly whether to use Sucker Punch or Pursuit, Houndoom can make an excellent revenge killer. (sounds really wierd, might want to change that) Flamethrower or Fire Blast complements the set for a STAB Fire option and the Hidden Power of choice is for coverage. Electric helps to take on Water Pokemon, excluding Starmie who will take more damage from Sucker Punch, and Hidden Power Ground helps combat Heatran and Infernape. Hidden Power Fighting is your best option against Tyranitar and will 2HKO a maximum HP Tyranitar.</p>

<p>216 Speed EVs allow Houndoom to outrun neutral nature base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Adamant Lucario and Modest Porygon-Z. 80 Attack EVs guarantee that maximum HP, maximum Defense Rotom-appliance is 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch (reapeated 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch) and then Pursuit, if it attempts to switch. Additionally, the 80 Attack EVs allow Houndoom to OHKO Azelf with Sucker Punch if it has taken Stealth Rock damage. The remaining EVs were delegated to Special Attack.</p>
Click to expand...

Feel free to disagree. :P
 
skiddle said:
OK, I only have two problems with this set.

Rash?? Um, why? You are lowering Houndoom's higher defensive stat. That, and the purpose of this set is to take on Azelf and Rotom-H, don't you think you should at least be able to take one weaker hit from them if the situation arises? Use Mild, any strong physical attack OHKOs Houndoom anyways.
Click to expand...
Agreeing.
Houndoom is weak to Ground, Fighting and Rock, and takes neutral from Bug, common physical attack-types. It has resistances to Grass, Ice, Ghost and Dark, which makes it (imo) a more optimal choice, as there are many common special moves of this type. So I would probably agree with Skiddle; take advantage of the resists (which to me are often used as special attacks not physical).

Checked X-Act's stats:
Type | Common Move | P / S

Ground | Earthquake | P
Fighting | Close Combat | P
Rock | Stone Edge | P

Grass | Grass Knot | S
Ice | Ice Beam | S
Ghost | Shadow Ball | S
Dark | Crunch | P

To me, it seems I would prefer to run Mild, taking advantage of Grass / Ice / Ghost resistances mainly.
 
i tihnk the idea here is houndoom outspeeds and ohkos luke/scizor/mamo and taking a priority attack before killing them happens..
 
+2, 394 Attack Scizor's LO Bullet Punch vs. 291 HP / 122 Def Houndoom: 92% - 109% (53% chance to OHKO)

+2, 394 Attack Scizor's LO Bullet Punch vs. 291 HP / 136 Def Houndoom: 83% - 98%

That's why I chose Rash. If everyone disagrees I'll change it but Scizor is such a huge threat I don't see why I wouldn't want to use this as a check since it can come in on Shadow Balls / Grass Knots with ease anyway :/.
 
Yeah, that's pretty situational. Houndoom will rarely be at max HP anyways, so I would prefer to run Mild, because Thunderbolt is hitting neutral and will be hurting Houndoom, whereas any good stall team will have an effective Scizor counter.
 
What about the "Stealth Rock is omnipresent, blah blah blah" thing? I wouldn't even bother with things like that if it can't do it after taking Stealth Rock damage.

You also have to remember that sometimes Azelf runs Thunderbolt, and Rotom-H has Thunderbolt... so running a Rash nature makes attacks like this hurt much harder.
 
I think Absol is a serious contender for this set. You lose out on a resistance to Bullet Punch (which judging by the calcs is pretty much meaningless), some Speed (Lucario will OHKO you with ExtremeSpeed anyway and Sucker Punch does shit all) and an immunity to Fire.

On the plus side you've got a very sexy 130 base Attack to work with. You've a far more powerful attack for the last slot, Superpower, which will OHKO both Heatran and Tyranitar, thus ending that choice. It's also the same power as a STAB Sucker Punch, so if you're in on something that'll stay in and not attack (CM Cune, I don't fucking know) you can still hit it for reasonable power. You maintain the ability to utilise Fire attacks with Fire Blast (with a negative nature, another plus) OHKOing Scizor and Forretress and 2HKOing Skarm.

Considering the Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Superpower / Fire Blast set and that you don't really need much more kick behind Fire Blast, you can stick it with a Choice Band. 591 (max, adamant, CB) is more than enough to OHKO a 252 HP / 136 Defense Bold Rotom-(whatever) with Sucker Punch or Pursuit when switching , 112% - 132% (more than enough to 2HKO with Pursuit if it says in, too). The Houndoom as listed above hits 252 HP Suicune for 38% - 45% with HP Electric, while a max Attack Adamant CB Absol hits a 252 HP/252 Defense Bold 'Cune for 35%-41% with Sucker Punch / Pursuit (if switching) / Superpower. I know 'Cune won't always be attacking, but it's not much of a difference considering both are possible yet neither are confirmed 3HKOs. Starmie is OHKO'd by Sucker Punch from Absol, easily.

Considering that, and this being a counter, Attack EVs could be dropped in favour of Sp. Defense/HP (covering a fault of Absol vs. Houndoom, 60 vs 80 base Sp. Defense). That, or Lum could be run. Even with 0 Attack EVs, Adamant and a Choice Band, a Rotom-X with those EVs would still be OHKO'd by the same attacks with Choice Band and rocks (93%-109%).

I realise that Absol can be hit by WoW while Houndoom can't, but I still feel this should be considered. If you can dodge WoW or use Lum, you get a lot more bang for your buck. Max Attack Adamant 'Sol with Lum still has more power than an Expert Belt boosted 80 [as specified] Attack EV Houndoom [physical STAB attack], with the plus of not having to hit for Super Effective damage.

oh, and, 591 Attack Absol Sucker Punch / Pursuit (if switching obviously) straight up OHKOs Skymin with Stealth Rock, 80% - 94%.
 
Uhh can I have some logs here for this thing's effectiveness. Yea yea, you and VIL used it effectively. That's nice.

This seems excessively centralized in purpose to me. I mean, this can't switch into Rotoms because Stealth Rock + Thunderbolt will 2hko and Houndoom can only 2hko Rotom. Starmie / Heatran (since its always scarfed) / Infernape will always outspeed it and Starmie won't be ohkoed. I guess it could be used for Gengar / Mismagius...but then both sub Substitute a lot as well...

This seems like it can only be really effectively against like Azelf lol.

Also, the 2hko on max hp tar is kind of misleading. 339 spatk hp fighting on 404 hp / 236 +1 spdef tar does 350-412 damage, or a ohko just 7.69 % of the time. Of course with stealth rock that is 87%, but still not guaranteed.

EDIT: also, I am getting different results for your rotom calcs. 236 attack sucker punch only 2hkos max hp max defense +nature rotom appliance 81.66% of the time without leftovers, 23.73% with leftovers, but always with stealth rock.
 
Aldaron said:
Uhh can I have some logs here for this thing's effectiveness. Yea yea, you and VIL used it effectively. That's nice.

This seems excessively centralized in purpose to me. I mean, this can't switch into Rotoms because Stealth Rock + Thunderbolt will 2hko and Houndoom can only 2hko Rotom. Starmie / Heatran (since its always scarfed) / Infernape will always outspeed it and Starmie won't be ohkoed. I guess it could be used for Gengar / Mismagius...but then both sub Substitute a lot as well...

This seems like it can only be really effectively against like Azelf lol.

Also, the 2hko on max hp tar is kind of misleading. 339 spatk hp fighting on 404 hp / 236 +1 spdef tar does 350-412 damage, or a ohko just 7.69 % of the time. Of course with stealth rock that is 87%, but still not guaranteed.

EDIT: also, I am getting different results for your rotom calcs. 236 attack sucker punch only 2hkos max hp max defense +nature rotom appliance 81.66% of the time without leftovers, 23.73% with leftovers, but always with stealth rock.
Click to expand...

I meant to mention SR w/ Rotom. Also, I don't know how you came up with that T-Tar calc since every calc I do gives 235 - 278 damage, a clean 2HKO as I said. It's also never not 2HKO'd in practice so I don't know how you got that.

Nothing personal , but I can't really take the "it's too specific" criticism seriously considering you wrote the analysis for Special Defensive Lum Berry Metagross (solely for D-E & Gengar), Lum Berry Tyranitar lead (basically for Gengar, Bronzong, and Gyarados), Lum Berry Machamp lead (solely for Gengar & Bronzong). I think those are all good sets but they are equally specialized as this.

If you really want logs I'll PM them to you, I never save logs so I'll just send you the first 10 or 15 battles I play with that team and send those.

@Anti: I don't doubt Absol's ability to function with a similar set. However, Absol lacks the surprise factor, flash fire, STAB Fire Blast which makes them sufficiently different in my eyes.
 
Are you actually comparing my three sets' effectiveness to this one's lol?

That'll kind of make me laugh. Yea, their purposes were centralized but they were extraordinarily effective even without that set purpose.

EDIT: Nevermind, someone I trust has convinced me to give this a shot, so my criticism of this set is temporarily delayed.

O, about the Tar calculation, i read what you wrote as ohko not 2hko. so basically we both agreed lol, yes, it does cleanly 2hko lol.

your calc is right though I forgot to include the sandstorm boost
 
My implication wasn't comparing set efficacy. I'm not even sure how I would begin to do that. All I was saying was I didn't feel something serving a specific purpose is a bad thing necessarily.

Edit: Oh, and about calc, I've forgotten to adjust for Sandstorm too often myself. I hate that ><
 
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