Honchkrow (Full Revamp) +

Colonel M

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Here goes.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Pursuit / Night Slash
item: Choice Band
ability: Insomnia
nature: Adamant / Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow returns to Platinum all set with one of his new moves. With Superpower there is little to no worries about Steel-types walling you as they have once done. The combination of STAB Sucker Punch, base 125 Attack, and Choice Band is a deadly way to not only attack but also to finish your opponents off. STAB Drill Peck can OHKO incoming Heracross, Breloom, and does massive damage to Machamp. Superpower is simply for Steel-types who otherwise resist Sucker Punch and Drill Peck.</p>

<p>The final move simply comes down to preference. Pursuit can be useful for playing mind games with Honchkrow. Your opponent might attempt to switch out to prevent Sucker Punch from damaging them and instead be caught off-guard and forced to take a hit. Night Slash makes prediction easier by still abusing the STAB Dark attack without resorting to thinking your opponent will attack you back.</p>

<p>Insomnia is preferred on this set because Honchkrow has a hard time switching in with his mediocre defenses. He does, however, brag two immunities and at least can absorb an incoming Hypnosis. Adamant or Jolly is, again, preference on whether you want more power or if you want more Speed to hit the base 80 Speed Pokemon.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Heat Wave
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Rock / Sucker Punch
item: Choice Specs
nature: Mild / Hasty
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow also boasts base 105 Special Attack and shows both of his new moves in this set. The addition of Heat Wave is massive on this set on top of Superpower as it can 2HKO Blissey at the worst. Hidden Power Flying is STAB and does decent damage against the usual Fighting-types. Sucker Punch allows Honchkrow to finish off certain Pokemon that are weaker in health and faster than Honchkrow. Hidden Power Rock is mainly another filler that works well as it will do the most damage to Zapdos, Gyarados, Salamence, and Dragonite who dare switch in. Either ability is fine here as Insomnia, again, gives you an easier time switching in. Super Luck might look a bit more appealing on this set as the critical hit rate can help compensate his slightly lower Special Attack stat (compared to his base Attack). Mild or Hasty are preferred as they hinder neither Superpower nor Sucker Punch and the Speed boost is welcome on this set.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Night Slash
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Heat Wave
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Super Luck
nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow's Speed is really mediocre in comparison to his other stats; 71 base Speed to be exact. Choice Scarf is a remedy to this set and allows full abuse with it. Night Slash alongside Super Luck works wonders on this set since Honchkrow will have a higher chance of pulling off a critical rate. Drill Peck can put massive damage on Heracross who is now slower than you usually except when the same Heracross is wielding a Choice Scarf. Superpower decimates Blissey once again and Heat Wave cooks the usual Steel-types. The Speed EVs beat Modest Heatran that have a Choice Scarf. This set outpaces Timid Alakazam at the very least.</p>

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is an interesting twist on the normal Honchkrow and abuses his ability to become a good wallbreaker. With Stealth Rock supporting this set,
Honchkrow has the ability to OHKO many things after a Nasty Plot. Superpower makes this set slightly different from some of the usual special sweepers as it's useful for Blissey, Heatran, Houndoom, and Tyranitar who otherwise wall this set.</p>

<p>The beauty of this set is Life Orb and the ability to fool your opponent into thinking that you're using Sucker Punch instead. You must tread carefully when you Nasty Plot as a lot of attacks can put a huge dent into Honchkrow, despite his good HP stat. It could use some support from other Pokemon ranging from Thunder Wave to passing a simple Substitute and / or Agility.</p>

[SET]
name: MixKrow
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Super Luck
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 224 Atk / 48 SpA / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This foregoes the usual attempt of any of the sets above and instead uses most of his useful moves in tandem to create a devastating mixed sweeper. The key here is to use Heat Wave only when Honchkrow feels dangered by Steel-types and Superpower only when Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar attempt to endanger this set. Other than that Drill Peck is useful against Celebi and Sucker Punch helps compensate his average Speed.</p>

<p>The EVs outpace neutral Base 80s and allows Heat Wave to 2HKO most Steels. The rest is poured into Attack to take advantage of his other physical attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 224 Atk / 48 SpA / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honhkrow also makes a good lead as Sucker Punch and Pursuit allows him to play mindgames with his opponents. Heat Wave can damage the usual Roserade, Metagross, and Bronzong leads. Superpower completes the set by denying Tyranitar from going any further in his expedition of sweeping. Insomnia is the reason why it is one of the best leads as Hypnosis and Sleep Powder are very common on many leads; which makes Insomnia the best ability on the set. 236 Speed EVs give Honchkrow 260 Speed to use and abuse against his foes. This at least outpaces Adamant Gallade with max Speed.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Psychic works on the Specs set but Hidden Power Flying and the usual moves outclass what it would be used for normally. There are many Hidden Powers here to consider on top of what has been listed. Electric maims Gyarados and does slightly more to bulky Waters, Grass dominates Swampert and still hits other bulky waters the same as Electric, and Ice will destroy the usual dragons. Icy Wind works well if you can predict a switch as the Speed drop can help Honchkrow intercept the kill. He can Perish Trap which is uncommon for some Pokemon, but keep in mind that Roost and Substitute are almost necessary to help Honchkrow survive. Mirror Move can bounce back random Earthquakes and attempt to hurt opponents like Tyranitar that lack a Choice item and don't switch out. Honchkrow also has Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Screech but struggles to find the right time to use these moves. Honckrow does have the ability to create 101HP Substitutes; however, the Ice-weakness makes it a shaky option when considering to abuse it against Blissey.</p>

[EVs]
<p>One of the tricks to using Honchkrow is EVs. Choice Band should simply use max Attack and Speed while Choice Specs should use max Special Attack and Speed. 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 212 Spe for the Choice Scarf is the best for Honchkrow allowing him to outpace Timid Alakazam on down. If you want you can drop a little more Speed to outpace Timid Azelf if you feel that Heat Wave needs a little more of a boost. The Nasty Plot set should simply use max Special Attack and Speed regardless of having Superpower. 236 Speed EVs with a positive nature outpaces many common threats from Adamant Gallade on down while max Speed will at least outpace most Gyarados.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Honchkrow got a much-needed boost in his movepool. With the additions of Heat Wave and Superpower in tow, Honchkrow has found a reason to be a threatening sweeper when given the chance. STAB Sucker Punch cannot be ignored either as it is still quite the punishment if your opponent is foolish enough to strike back at Honchkrow. Its low Speed, weakness to Stealth Rock, and frail defenses are some of the biggest hindrances to the Big Boss Pokemon. Despite that he still has the immunity of Psychic and Earthquake going for him, and Insomnia gives him a way to swith in to intercept Hypnosis or Sleep Powder. Honchkrow may seem to require some prediction but when used effectively it can be a deadly force on the field.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Honchkrow's biggest counters are those faster than he. Also the mass use of priority moves in the overused environment make it difficult for Honchkrow to sweep effectively. Bulky Steel-types still do wonders against Honchkrow that are more physically oriented but now must tread wisely as Superpower can do some damage against some of them. Skarmory is probably the best counter to physical Honchkrow as some lack Heat Wave in favor of a reliable Dark-type move. If you can at least survive with over 75% of health after a Superpower, chances are you make a decent counter to Honchkrow. Blissey does a fair job walling the Choice Specs set but fears Superpower taking her down if she's lower than 60% of health, factoring the most physically bulky Blissey possible (714 HP / 130 Def). The mixed sets are more difficult to wall, as foolish switch-in or wrong prediction could cost you dearly. The Nasty Plot set is perhaps the hardest to counter without anything faster than Honchkrow himself. Many walls are OHKO'd after a single Nasty Plot, and those such as Regice and Blissey fear Superpower.</p>
 
On the Specs set you mention Psychic being used to hit Fighting types, but wouldn't Hidden Power Flying (or Drill Peck for that matter) be more efficient at that?

And you should probably mention the benefits of having a lead with Insomnia in the set comments for the Lead set.

I'll reread and post with more suggestions in a bit.
 
Yeah, you are right. Hidden Power Flying would be good for the Specs set. The main problem (to me anyways) is that HP Rock is still useful which was why I mentioned it. But I guess Flying has a good use so I'll add.

Also will add more emphasis on Insomnia as the lead.
 
Here goes.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Pursuit / Night Slash
item: Choice Band
ability: Insomnia
nature: Adamant / Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow returns to Platinum all set with one of his new moves. With Superpower there is little to no worries about Steel-types walling you as they have once done. The combination of STAB Sucker Punch, base 125 Attack, and Choice Band is a deadly way to not only attack but also to finish your opponents off. STAB Drill Peck can OHKO incoming Heracross, Breloom, and does massive damage to Machamp. Superpower is simply for Steel-types who otherwise resist Sucker Punch and Drill Peck.</p>

<p>The final move simply comes down to preference. Pursuit can be useful for playing mind games with Honchkrow. Your opponent might attempt to switch out to prevent Sucker Punch from damaging them and instead be caught off-guard and forced to take a hit. Night Slash makes prediction easier by still abusing the STAB Dark attack without resorting to thinking your opponent will attack you back.</p>

<p>Insomnia is preferred on this set because Honchkrow has a hard time switching in with his mediocre defenses. He does, however, brag two immunities and at least can absorb an incoming Hypnosis. Adamant or Jolly is, again, preference on whether you want more power or if you want more Speed to hit the base 80 Speed Pokemon.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Heat Wave
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Rock / Sucker Punch
item: Choice Specs
nature: Mild / Hasty
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow also boasts base 105 Special Attack and shows both of his new moves in this set. The addition of Heat Wave is massive on this set on top of Superpower as it can 2HKO Blissey at the worst. Hidden Power Flying is STAB and does decent damage against the usual Fighting-types. Sucker Punch allows Honchkrow to finish off certain Pokemon that are weaker in health and faster than Honchkrow. Hidden Power Rock is mainly another filler that works well as it will do the most damage to Zapdos, Gyarados, Salamence, and Dragonite who dare switch in. Either ability is fine here as Insomnia, again, gives you an easier time switching in. Super Luck might look a bit more appealing on this set as the critical hit rate can help compensate his slightly lower Special Attack stat (compared to his base Attack). Mild or Hasty are preferred as they hinder neither Superpower nor Sucker Punch and the Speed boost is welcome on this set.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Night Slash
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Heat Wave
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Super Luck
nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 212 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honchkrow's Speed is really mediocre in comparison to his other stats; 71 base Speed to be exact. Choice Scarf is a remedy to this set and allows full abuse with it. Night Slash alongside Super Luck works wonders on this set since Honchkrow will have a higher chance of pulling off a critical rate. Drill Peck can put massive damage on Heracross who is now slower than you usually except when the same Heracross is wielding a Choice Scarf. Superpower decimates Blissey once again and Heat Wave cooks the usual Steel-types. The Speed EVs beat Modest Heatran that have a Choice Scarf.</p>

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is an interesting twist on the normal Honchkrow and abuses his ability to become a good wallbreaker. With Stealth Rock supporting this set, Honchkrow has the ability to OHKO many things after a Nasty Plot. Superpower makes this set slightly different from some of the usual special sweepers as it's useful for Blissey, Heatran, Houndoom, and Tyranitar who otherwise wall this set.</p>

<p>The beauty of this set is Life Orb and the ability to fool your opponent into thinking that you're using Sucker Punch instead. You must tread carefully when you Nasty Plot as a lot of attacks can put a huge dent into Honchkrow, despite his good HP stat. It could use some support from other Pokemon ranging from Thunder Wave to passing a simple Substitute and / or Agility.</p>

[SET]
name: MixKrow
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Drill Peck
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Super Luck
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 228 Atk / 48 SpA / 232 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This foregoes the usual attempt of any of the sets above and instead uses most of his useful moves in tandem to create a devastating mixed sweeper. The key here is to use Heat Wave only when Honchkrow feels dangered by Steel-types and Superpower only when Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar attempt to endanger this set. Other than that Drill Peck is useful against Celebi and Sucker Punch helps compensate his average Speed.</p>

<p>The EVs outpace neutral Base 80s and allows Heat Wave to 2HKO most Steels. The rest is poured into Attack to take advantage of his other physical attacks.</p>

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Superpower
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Hasty / Naive
EVs: 228 Atk / 48 SpA / 232 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Honhkrow also makes a good lead as Sucker Punch and Pursuit allows him to play mindgames with his opponents. Heat Wave can damage the usual Roserade, Metagross, and Bronzong leads. Superpower completes the set by denying Tyranitar from going any further in his expedition of sweeping. Insomnia is the reason why it is one of the best leads as Hypnosis and Sleep Powder are very common on many leads; which makes Insomnia the best ability on the set.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Psychic works on the Specs set but Hidden Power Flying and the usual moves outclass what it would be used for normally. There are many Hidden Powers here to consider on top of what has been listed. Electric maims Gyarados and does slightly more to bulky Waters <deleted, repetititon of gyarados>, Grass dominates Swampert and still hits other bulky waters the same as Electric, and Ice will destroy the usual dragons. Icy Wind works well if you can predict a switch as the Speed drop can help Honchkrow intercept the kill. He can Perish Trap which is uncommon for some Pokemon, but keep in mind that Roost and Substitute are almost necessary to help Honchkrow survive. Mirror Move can bounce back random Earthquakes and attempt to hurt opponents like Tyranitar that lack a Choice item and don't switch out. Honchkrow also has Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Screech but struggles to find the right time to use these moves.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Honchkrow got a much-needed boost in his movepool. With the additions of Heat Wave and Superpower in tow, Honchkrow has found a reason to be a threatening sweeper when given the chance. STAB Sucker Punch cannot be ignored either as it is still quite the punishment if your opponent is foolish enough to strike back at Honchkrow. Its low Speed, weakness to Stealth Rock, and frail defenses are some of the biggest hindrances to the Big Boss Pokemon. Despite that he still has the immunity of Psychic and Earthquake going for him, and Insomnia gives him a way to swith in to intercept Hypnosis or Sleep Powder. Honchkrow may seem to require some prediction but when used effectively it can be a deadly force on the field.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Honchkrow's biggest counters are those faster than he. Also the mass use of priority moves in the overused environment make it difficult for Honchkrow to sweep effectively. Bulky Steel-types still do wonders against Honchkrow that are more physically oriented but now must tread wisely as Superpower can do some damage against some of them. Skarmory is probably the best counter to physical Honchkrow as some lack Heat Wave in favor of a reliable Dark-type move. If you can at least survive with over 75% of health after a Superpower, chances are you make a decent counter to Honchkrow. Blissey does a fair job walling the Choice Specs set but fears Superpower taking her down if she's lower than 60% of health, factoring the most physically bulky Blissey possible (714 HP / 130 Def). The mixed sets have the most difficulty to be walled against as any foolish switch-in or smart prediction from the Honchkrow user could cost you dearly. The Nasty Plot set is perhaps the hardest to counter without anything faster than Honchkrow himself. Many walls are OHKO'd after a single Nasty Plot and those such as Regice and Blissey fear Superpower from crushing them.</p>
 
You know, 101 subs with Calm Mind or Nasty Plot is tempting, but is mostly pointless now that Honkrow gets Superpower and that Seismic Toss is in general seeing a decrease in usage in favor of actual attack moves on Blissey and company. Still seems like a passing mention in other options wouldn't be a bad idea, if only to explain why Suicune does it better anyway.
 
Well, I'm not completely sure. It's really the Ice weakness that pushes it down from being able to use something like this effectively:

- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Dark Pulse

I've wanted to try something similair to this before. The one thing that made me nervous was Blissey normally carries Ice Beam and you probably couldn't get enough Calm Minds to lower the damage to under 25% (unless I'm missing something). If Flamethrower was more common it might be an afterthought. I'll mention Substitute anywas for Other Options material because another set that I wanted to experiment:

- Substitute
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave

It's not exactly an effective "Stall-breaker" but at least the Substitute could prevent status from ruining it. It would also promote the use of attacking the Substitute so Sucker Punch looks better here. Superpower and Heat Wave for obvious reasons.

I might add more to the SET COMMENTS because I'm looking at the other's analysis and think that I should have as much detail as possible for any set in any of mine.
 
The mixed sets are more difficult to wall, as foolish switch-in or wrong prediction could cost you dearly. The Nasty Plot set is perhaps the hardest to counter without anything faster than Honchkrow himself. Many walls are OHKO'd after a single Nasty Plot, and those such as Regice and Blissey fear Superpower. rest was removed.
 
Oh, one thing: on the CB set, maybe Night Slash should be slashed with Sucker Punch too? I probably just suck, but I find it a really awkward move to be Choiced with, especially when your opponent cottons on; they set up on you ~_~
 
There's a reason that it isn't Misaki. Sucker Punch really makes up for its ass Speed and it feels necessary to finish some Pokemon off. Night Slash still works well in Option 4 because not many Pokemon are really running from Honchkrow sadly.
 
I didn't really read the entire thread but since I created the submission back in July for a Lead Krow, I figured that I'd add something to this one.

I feel that Thunder Wave is really worth considering over Heat Wave on the lead set. It does a great job at ruining Gyarados leads which is something that I'd value above damaging Roserade/Metagross/Bronzong leads. You can do over 40% to Roserade with Pursuit, if it doesn't switch out which makes for a 3HKO while it sets up Toxic Spikes (which it would've gotten a layer down anyway with Heat Wave). You really shouldn't be staying in on Bronzong anyway since you're hardly going to dent him and instead by nailed by Gyro Ball. In general, Thunder Wave is a really nice support option to have anyway for things you couldn't have stopped otherwise.

I also had Taunt on the set (this was before Superpower) but I really don't see it having much use now that most Bronzongs go straight for the Gyro Ball anyway. At the very least, I'd put Thunder Wave as the primary option in Heat Wave's slot though.

Here's the original thread if you want to draw any content from it (perhaps explaining a bit more on how easily it counters some of the common leads out there):
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44970
 
How about using Snatch somewhere? When most people see a Honchkrow, they expect it to use Sucker Punch, correct? So then they use a non damage move like a stat boosting move. Snatch takes the stat boost from the opposing Pokemon, and depending on what move is used it could allow Honchkrow an easy sweep.

But you would also need Sucker Punch on the set, because the other player will not likely fall for it twice.
 
a set i had in mind for honchkrow early on in the metagame was snatch/sucker punch/taunt/second attack/filler the idea was to snatch stat ups from faster pokemon or taunt slower stat uppers to force them to attack to get off a clean sucker punch
 
Really, the point of a Snatch set would be just to play mindgames with the opponent. I've been testing Snatch on the Life Orb set (Merely because I'm terrible at making up sets) and it's worked quite effectively. My only concern is that if it goes on Smogon, people will suspect it sometimes, but that's the problem with all sets really.
 
I think Life Orb deserves a mention on the Choice Bander (and maybe change the name for "physical attacker" or something like that?).

Honchkrow can't take almost any hit anyway, and Life Orb is extremely useful for prediction wars with Sucker Punch (which happens a lot). I don't know if this is of much value because the ladder is new and all, but in UU all Honchkrow I saw were this all physical one with Life Orb.
 
I'm agreeing with sulphur here, Life Orb on the CB set works just fine.
 
Yeah, I'll add that to SCMS later today if possible. Life Orb, that is. I'm sketchy on Snatch, so I'm going to have to say "no" for now.
 
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