Honchkrow (Choice Band) [QC: 0/3]

[Tomahawk]

Honchkrow

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Pursuit / Night Slash
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

• While this set might seem outclassed by Staraptor at first glance, who has Intimidate, U-Turn, STAB Return and Close Combat instead of Superpower, Honchkrow has some notable advantages:
  • Dark typing lets him get past Rotom-A easily, who walls Staraptor easily.
  • STAB Sucker Punch is one of the most powerful priority moves, and lets him OHKO common sweepers, such as Gyarados, Dragonite, and Starmie.
  • STAB Pursuit lets him KO weakened Pokemon whether they switch out or not.
  • Honchkrow also has slightly higher Attack, which doesn't matter a lot, but extra power is always welcome.

Additional Comments:

• Night Slash can be used over Pursuit for a more reliable STAB move.
• Jolly can be used to outspeed Jolly Breloom and Tyranitar, but doesn't accomplish much besides that.

Teammates & Counters:

• This Honchkrow really appreciates Rapid Spin support, as it will be switching in and out a lot.
• Wish support is also appreciated, as he will take a lot of residual damage with Brave Bird recoil and a Stealth Rock weakness.
• Skarmory can take any attack Honchkrow can throw at him, and Roost off the damage, while setting up Spikes in the process.

Damage Calculations

Brave Bird vs 252/104+ Hippowdon: 51.7% - 61%
Brave Bird vs 248/252+ Gyarados: 66.7% - 78.9%
Brave Bird (-1) vs 248/252+ Gyarados: 44.5% - 52.7%
Brave Bird vs 248/216+ Swampert: 61.8% - 73%
Brave Bird vs 252/4 Gliscor: 72.9% - 85.9%

Sucker Punch vs 0/4 Gyarados: 76.4% - 90%
Sucker Punch vs 156/96 Gyarados: 61.1% - 72.2%
Sucker Punch vs 0/4 Dragonite: 67.2% - 79.3%
Sucker Punch vs 252/0 Dragonite: 56.7% - 66.8%
Sucker Punch vs 0/0 Flygon: 83.7% - 98.7%

 

[Moo]

gotta say, those calcs look impressive, but the only trouble it really has is switching in, and because of Stealth Rock and Brave Bird recoil, it won't always stick around as long as you might like

 

[Woodchuck]

gotta say, those calcs look impressive, but the only trouble it really has is switching in, and because of Stealth Rock and Brave Bird recoil, it won't always stick around as long as you might like

That's true, but Staraptor got an analysis and it has just as many issues with Stealth Rock and Brave Bird recoil.
Though Honchkrow will have to switch out more often.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Too slow, too frail, SR weak. Brave Bird is a cute trick but at the end of the day that's all it really is, and Staraptor outclasses it fairly hard. Choiced Sucker Punch off of a slow Pokemon kinda sucks, and Pursuit is setup fodder. This isn't a set that can be "overlooked" so there's obviously a reason it wasn't put on the analysis.

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[Tomahawk]

Well, this set functions similarly to Staraptor, but that doesn't mean it's outclassed: Honchkrow can actually Brave Bird spam without having to worry about Rotom-A much. Sucker Punch and Pursuit obviously should be used with care, but Sucker Punch and Pursuit can actually make Honchkrow a better Starmie killer then Tyranitar and Scizor when played well. Pursuit is also setup fodder when Tyranitar uses it, but it still has a Choice Band set, so that's not a reason to reject it imo.
Thanks for the input though.

 

[EonADS]

This set is potentially viable, but not really. CB Sucker Punch on something as slow as Honchkrow is a terrible idea, it makes you into setup fodder and Pursuit isn't much better if you don't time it correctly. It's still frail, and Honchkrow is much slower than Staraptor. Having to rely on Superpower to break Steels isn't exactly comforting either because it forces more switches than Close Combat, and Stealth Rock damage will end up killing Honch even faster than Staraptor because of that.

Honchkrow can actually Brave Bird spam without having to worry about Rotom-A much.

Is it still locked into one move? Yes. Is it still frail? Yes. Is it still weak against Electric-type moves? Yes. Furthermore, one turn of minimum damage Brave Bird recoil and one minimum damage Discharge from a 0 SpA Rotom still OHKOs Honchkrow.

I don't see how it doesn't have to worry as much. It isn't able to simply Sucker Punch if it is already spamming Brave Bird thanks to the Choice Band, so the only concieveable way is impossible.

Sucker Punch and Pursuit obviously should be used with care, but Sucker Punch and Pursuit can actually make Honchkrow a better Starmie killer then Tyranitar and Scizor when played well.

Tyranitar and Scizor both have more general utility than Honchkrow and fit more easily into different kinds of teams. Honchkrow isn't worth giving up that utility just to have a marginally better Starmie killer, it has an infinitesimally tiny niche and its spot is better filled by a general utility that can still preform the same duty. Both Scizor and Tyranitar also lack the Stealth Rock weakness that Honchkrow has, both have no problems with recoil, and Scizor's typing is far and away superior to Honchkrow's, as are both Scizors' and Tyranitars' defenses.

Also, "when played well" more or less means "when going crazy trying to predict each and every move", because unlike Scizor and Tyranitar, Honchkrow will die to anything LO Starmie can throw at it but Surf even without Stealth Rock, and with Stealth Rock Surf also KOs quite solidly. The only set I can see it doing better against is the Rapid Spin set, which is already handled extremely well by both Tyranitar and Scizor. LO Honchkrow already requires a lot of prediction, adding a Choice Band just makes it worse.

Pursuit is also setup fodder when Tyranitar uses it, but it still has a Choice Band set, so that's not a reason to reject it imo.

Tyranitar also has a higher Attack stat, effectively has 100/110/160 (with Sand Stream boosting its SpD) defenses compared to Honchkrow's 100/52/52, a wider movepool, and it lacks the weakness to Stealth Rock. It also doesn't have to rely on Superpower to break down Steel-types, nor does it only have one reliable STAB. Also, unlike CB Tyranitar, Honchkrow can't 2HKO Skarmory without Heat Wave, and even then there's a chance that the Phsyically Defensive variant will survive if it has Leftovers.

 

[NoJohns]

Maybe this set should have an OO analysis? It doesn't seem like it warrants it's own analysis since it's looks like it functions the same as the "get in and dish out as much damage as possible" LO Honchkrow, hitting a bit harder but with the inability to Heat Wave Skarm effectively.

 

[Tomahawk]

While I'm okay with this getting rejected, there is one thing I want to say: I will probably submit some more sets in the future; however, there isn't really a Gen 4 OU QC Team anymore. You need 3 QC checks, and there are only 1/2 active QC Members (Seven Deadly Sins is active, Setsuna as well probably, but Megan_Fox isn't), so more QC Members should probably be added.

 

[sandshrewz]

Hey tomahawk9! Actually I think it is quite a good set although Honchrow does not have the desired traits of a choice user. CB Sucker Punch can revengekill a lot of things with SR damage! For example an Electivire can get RKed with sandstorm damage and SR. Honchrow has a respectable Atk stat to utilise a CB. For the ability, super luck should be used when with night slash. Insomia can be used against Venusaur, Roserade, Breloom and Smeargle if you want to switch in on a sleep inducing move and get a free hit but breloom often subs before sporing. But I feel that honchrow is somewhat too slow to nab things with pursuit... Rotom-A is still faster and won't switch unless it's choice locked into shadow ball or trick. Like all choiced pursuit users, they are good trick absorbers and you get a free kill by spamming pursuit, whether or not they switch. I would slash drill peck beside bravebird since some people may not like the recoil and still has acceptable BP.

Honchkrow has access to screech and pursuit but I don't know if that is worthy of a set by itself. Screech was more useful in Gen3 I think. It can use swagger + psych up + pursuit with a filler move but it may be too gimmicky :/ what honchkrow has over other CB pursuit users is probably a ground immunity. Choice locked EQ means a free hit for honchkrow which is quite common on flygon.. Like scizor, it has access to pirority moves with sucker punch.

I think CB honchkrow deserves its own set. Unlike CB staraptor, it's more of a revenge killer instead of spamming brave bird everywhere. What is has over LO set is the better ability to revenge kill. And yea like Toma said, this place needs more QC members if there are sets still posted. Is it possible to still post sets here? Thanks

 

[Camisado]

The problem with CBKrow is that while it hits fairly hard with Choice Band, how easy it becomes setup bait with the wrong choice makes it a high risk/low reward kind of poke.

 

[Setsuna]

While I'm okay with this getting rejected, there is one thing I want to say: I will probably submit some more sets in the future; however, there isn't really a Gen 4 OU QC Team anymore. You need 3 QC checks, and there are only 1/2 active QC Members (Seven Deadly Sins is active, Setsuna as well probably, but Megan_Fox isn't), so more QC Members should probably be added.

It's been a long time since we started passing QC analyses with two approvals instead of the old, regular three -- for instance, look at the Ninjask thread in this sub-forum and you'll see what I mean. So, suggestion not taken.

That said, I don't think this set is as viable as you make it out to be in the OP, in which you also try to make some points that I don't think are accurate or reflect the overall effectiveness of the presented set. I can approve of an Other Options mention for Choice Band Honchkrow, but not this entire set for the reasons SevenDeadlySins and others have named.

Feel free to write a―concise―paragraph explaining how CB can be used on this Pokemon to some extent, PM it to me, and I will add it to the site.