Hitmonlee (Unburden) (QC 3/3) [GP 2/2]

-Tsunami-

is the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
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[SET]
name: Unburden
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Return / Earthquake
item: Normal Gem
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Unburden, Hitmonlee becomes arguably the best revenge killer in the RU metagame. It outruns the entire metagame after Normal Gem is used, and with its great coverage and massive Attack stat, Hitmonlee can demolish a wide variety of threats in the tier. This Hitmonlee is a very good late-game cleaner, and can wipe out whole teams once Ghost- and Psychic-types are eliminated. Hitmonlee's prowess is increased even further by its access to Fake Out, which essentially doubles its Speed by activating Normal Gem, and thus Unburden.</p>

<p>Close Combat is Hitmonlee's best STAB move, and lets it eliminate many threats, such as Durant and Aerodactyl. Stone Edge provides great coverage in tandem with Close Combat, allowing Hitmonlee to decimate the likes of Moltres and Sigilyph. Lastly, Return provides Hitmonlee with good neutral coverage, and is its strongest attack against Psychic-types; it also gives Hitmonlee another way to activate Unburden. Earthquake, however, is also an option in the last slot, hitting threats such as Qwilfish and Drapion harder. Finally, Hi Jump Kick is an option over Close Combat since it has higher Base Power, but its side effect can take its toll quite quickly if the opponent has a Ghost-type or a Protect user waiting in the wings.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature with maximum investment in Attack allows Hitmonlee to hit as hard as possible. Hitmonlee's Speed is also maximized, reaching 273 Speed. This means that it reaches a blistering Speed stat of 546 after Unburden is activated. Hitmonlee also greatly appreciates entry hazard support, as it lets Hitmonlee pick off Pokemon much more easily. It also appreciates a Rapid Spinner, or at least a grounded Poison-type teammate, as entry hazards—especially Toxic Spikes—are a thorn in Hitmonlee's side. Thus, Pokemon such as Roselia, Qwilfish, and Claydol make nice partners. A Pursuit user is greatly appreciated as well, as it wipes Psychic- and Ghost-types, such as Cresselia and Cofagrigus, off of the map, giving Hitmonlee a much easier time demolishing the opponent's team. Pokemon such as Skuntank are good partners for this very reason; Skuntank receives special mention since it is also a grounded Poison-type, thus letting it remove Toxic Spikes as well.</p>

<p>Sadly, priority bypasses Unburden. Thus, common priority users, such as Hitmonchan, should be taken out before sending Hitmonlee in (it can take one hit, however). Nevertheless, Mach Punch can be used in place of either Fake Out or Return in an attempt to fix this problem; Fighting Gem becomes a very viable item choice if Mach Punch is used. Blaze Kick is an option in the last slot too, allowing Hitmonlee to hit Pokemon such as Durant and Roselia super effectively.</p>
 
Unfortunately, Double-Edge is a 3rd Gen Tutor attack for Hitmonlee making it illegal with his Dream World ability. For your final slot, you'll need to replace it with some other sort of filler like Blaze Kick, Return, Earthquake, or Mach Punch (Sucker Punch is illegal as well since it's a 4th Gen Tutor attack).
 
TheMantyke said:
Unfortunately, Double-Edge is a 3rd Gen Tutor attack for Hitmonlee making it illegal with his Dream World ability. For your final slot, you'll need to replace it with some other sort of filler like Blaze Kick, Return, Earthquake, or Mach Punch (Sucker Punch is illegal as well since it's a 4th Gen Tutor attack).
Click to expand...
Yeah I just realized that (I had always used Return when I tested it too, but I made my team with this Hitmonlee a while ago so I guess I forgot why I chose Return over Double-Edge). Putting Return over it.
 
Mention Mach Punch in AC to beat opposing priority. Fighting Gem is also an option then.

QC APPROVED 1/3
 
You should put HJK in the AC. I don't know if it nets any particular ohkoes with the +10 BP, but the lack of defense drops when using it is certainly welcome since it prevents any random priority from ohkoing you.
Also can i ask what Return is needed for? The only thing i can think of is Claydol which walls you anwyay and should be eliminated before you bring in Hitmonlee. Blaze Kick and EQ are much better options in the last slot. Blaze Kick hits Roselia, Galvantula and Scolipede(has better accuracy than SE) and Durant while EQ hits some same targets with SE but with better accuracy, Drapion, Qwilfish, Magneton (CC has a chance to miss the ohko on the RestTalk set) and Stunfisk.
While the advantages of those moves might seem not so important, the truth is that they are the only options that Hitmonlee has so why not?
And i ask again what Return is hitting except from Claydol?
 
I know this isn't that important but I always hate to waste evs so I'd like to suggest 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe for this set. It doesn't miss on anything (still outspeeds +2 Sharpedo after the boost) and the hp evs give it some bulk that can sometimes be helpful. Also mention eq in ac (thanks alexwolf). Other than that:

QC APPROVED 3/3

EDIT: At alexwolf, hjk is an egg move so it's illegal with unburden
 
Thx zdrup15. I didn't know that. But still, i am asking the QC team, what is the use of Return in the last slot except from hitting Claydol for 25 - 29.62% damage which is pretty low. I know that 2hkoing Claydol when it is at 50% or less is important but is it so important to put Return over the 2 other moves that grant ohkoes or better hits on more pokemon which are also common, like Durant, Drapion and Qwilfish?
 
No.... Hi Jump Kick is a level up move on Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee learns it at lv. 29. Should be, like, slashed or something.

However, if you want HJK on Hitmonchan or Hitmontop, then you have to breed.
 
I'll add Hi Jump Kick in AC. Close Combat has enough power to KO most things anyway, not to mention Hi Jump Kick is slightly more unreliable and completely screws you over if they send in a Ghost-type or use Protect.
 
Since i get no answer i am going to ask one more time... ShakeItUp why is Return on the last slot instead of EQ/Blaze Kick? Can we get some better explanation instead of provides neutral coverage and a second way to activate Unburden? There is no need for a second way to activate Unburden anyway...
 
alexwolf said:
Since i get no answer i am going to ask one more time... ShakeItUp why is Return on the last slot instead of EQ/Blaze Kick? Can we get some better explanation instead of provides neutral coverage and a second way to activate Unburden? There is no need for a second way to activate Unburden anyway...
Click to expand...

Return provides good neutral coverage (I don't know how else to put it...barely no type resists Normal); Blaze Kick isn't needed most of the time and EQ only has 20 more Base Power against Drapion. I meant in case someone brings in something like a Rotom to take your Fake Out. If you kill it off with Stone Edge, this way you can activate it another way without having to switch if possible. It also helps because you're not forced to use Fake Out and it's 40 Base Power every time, as it's relatively weak.
 
What i want to hear when asking why Return is there, is pokes that it hits harder than the other moves. For example Return is your best option against Claydol but as said again, still deals pitifull damage...
While EQ only hits Drapion for 20 more BP, it deals a minimum of 75% to 4 HP variants which means that after 2 turns of SR or 1 turn of SR and 1 turn of LO recoil, Drapion is as good as dead. In the other hand if you use CC, Drapion survives and kos back with EQ. Of 'course i am talking about the offensive sets.
Also EQ hits Qwilfish for 42,7% damage on average at -1 which is much better than the pitiful ~27% on Claydol. Another plus is that you can ohko Aggron without suffering any defense drops dealing a minimum of 96,8 to 4 HP Aggron. EQ also allows you to ohko Magneton unconditionally (RestTalk Magneton has a chance of surviving CC without SR) and without suffering any defense drops. Finally EQ allows you to unconditionally ohko Electivire (which has a small chance of surviving CC without SR) and without suffering any defense drops.

Blaze Kick on the other hand allows you to unconditionally ohko Durant, which survives even HJK after SR ~50% of the time and ohkoes with Iron Head and hits Roselia hard for 78,95%-93,42% damage.

So is hitting Claydol for ~27% damage with Return worth it to forfeit the advantages that the other 2 moves provide? I don't think so. EQ/ Blaze Kick fit much better in the last slot imo.

Also HJK deserves to be slashed with CC imo since it hits harder and prevents any random priority user from revenge killing you.

Here is a list of common priority attacks and how much they deal to Hitmonlee before and after the defense drops:

Honchkrow's Sucker Punch vs 28 HP Lee : 60,89%-71,37%
The same vs -1 Lee : 90.72% - 106.45% (Possible ohko after SR)

Entei's CB Extremespeed vs 28 HP Lee : 87.5% - 103.22% (~50% chance of ohko after SR)
The same vs -1 Lee : 131.45% - 154.83% (Unconditional ohko)

Entei's LO Extremespeed vs 28 HP Lee : 75.8% - 89.51%
The same vs -1 Lee : 114.11% - 134.67% (Unconditional ohko)

LO Hitmonchan's Mach Punch vs 28 HP Lee : 64.51% - 76.2%
The same vs -1 Lee : 95.96% - 113.7% (Almost 100% ohko after SR)

As you can see after 1 defense drop the more popular priority users in RU all have 50% chance or more of ohkoing Lee, while without it Lee survives almost all of them after SR.
Of 'course ghosts ruin your fun and HJK can miss but not being forced out by any priority user after 1 use of CC and the added power are good enough to warrant HJK a slash along CC.

Finally it should also be mentioned that HJK works better with Blaze Kick. When using HJK most of EQ's benefits are moot since it ohkoes Electivire and Magneton and does the same against Drapion. In the other hand the 2 basic targets of Blaze Kick are still unmoved by HJK so Blaze Kick is the best option.

Sorry for talking too much but i feel that Return is really a subpar move for the main set.

And about your example with Rotom and Return activating Unburden after killing it, i feel that this situation is very unlikely to happen. 90% of the times you will want to send Lee in when ghosts are eliminated to do what Lee does best, late game sweep. If you kill the ghost without activating Unburden chances are you won't get to use Return anyway because you will be outsped and killed. And even if you do use Return chances are that it won't kill the opponent while it will ko you back.
Finally even though Fake Out is weak there is no drawback in using it since it gives you a free turn anyway.
 
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[SET]
name: Unburden
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Return
item: Normal Gem
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Unburden, Hitmonlee becomes arguably the best revenge killer in the RU metagame. It outruns the entire metagameafter Normal Gem is used, and with its great coverage and massive Attack stat, it can demolish a wide variety of threats in the tier. This Hitmonlee is a very good late-game cleaner, and can cemolish wipe out / destroy whole teams once Ghost- and Psychic-types are eliminated. Hitmonlee's prowess is increased even further by it access to Fake Out, which essentially doubles its Speed when Normal Gem is present by activating Normal Gem, and thus Unburden. Close Combat is its best STAB move, and lets it demolish eliminate optional (repeated >.>) many threats, such as Durant and Aerodactyl. Stone Edge provides great coverage in tandem with Close Combat, allowing Hitmonlee to decimate the likes of Moltres and Sigilyph. Lastly, Return provides Hitmonlee with good neutral coverage, and lets it hit Psychic-types harder than it would otherwise is its strongest attack against Psychic-types; it also gives Hitmonlee another way to activate Unburden.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature with maximum investment in Attack allows Hitmonlee to hit as hard as possible. Hitmonlee's Speed is also maximized, allowing it to reaching 273 Speed.<period>, thus menaing This means that it reaches a blistering Speed stat of 546 after Unburden is activated. This Hitmonlee also greatly appreciates entry hazard support, as it lets it pick off Pokemon much more easily. It also appreciates a Rapid Spinner, or at least a grounded optional Poison-type teammate, as entry hazards—especially Toxic Spikes—<em dash> especially, are a thorn in the side to this Hitmonlee. Thus, Pokemon such as Roselia, Qwilfish, and Claydol make nice partners. A Pursuiter user read the thread O:< haha is greatly appreciated as well, as it will allows Psychic-types, such as Cresselia, and Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus, to be wiped off of the map, allowing giving repeated :x Hitmonlee to have a much easier time demolishing the opponent's team. Pokemon such as Skuntank are good partners for this very reason. might want to say it's a Poison-type too :P</p>

<p>Sadly, priority bypasses Unburden. Thus, so threats or common priority users? such as Hitmonchan should be taken out before sending Hitmonlee in (it can take one hit, however). Nevertheless, Mach Punch can be used either in place of either Fake Out or in place of Return in an attempt to fix this problem; Fighting Gem becomes a very viable item choice if Mach Punch is used. Blaze Kick is an option in the last slot too, allowing Hitmonlee to hit Pokemon such as Durant and Roselia harder super effectively; the same goes for Earthquake, only except that it gets coverage against threats such as Qwilfish and Drapion instead. Finally, Hi Jump Kick is an option over Close Combat since it has higher Base Power, but its secondary side effect erm this is a primary effect iirc :x sec effects are those that activate sheer force :x can take its toll quite quickly if the opponent has a Ghost-type or a Protect user waiting in the wings.</p>

Shakey is so pro :O

gpstamp

GP Approved 1/2

edit: also my 300th post xD and... are you going to rewrite this? :x
 
Well alexwolf, I would change it, but no QC member told me too...I already wrote it too so...

EDIT: nah I won't sand unless a QC member explicitly tells me to do so xD
anyway
Thanks sand :)
implemented and 1 more to go.
 
I understand. So can any QC member tell us what the verdict is about Blaze Kick/EQ in the last slot instead of Return?
 
yeah I see nothing wrong with slashing HJK next to CC, and Earthquake next to Return. alexwolf outlined some good reasons to do so, and tbh I would use HJK over CC myself on this set.
 
i think the true value of Return lies in the flexibility it provides alongside Normal Gem. Gem-boosted Return does around 45% to Claydol iirc and gets off a powerful hit against things like Uxie and Weezing, which might just be enough to take them down if they've been previously weakened, and facilitate a sweep.

whether that makes it more valuable than the other moves on the set is arguable but frankly there's nothing that can go in the last slot that isn't gonna be filler anyway. Blaze Kick or Earthquake can both take down things that could wall you otherwise so i'd give them a mention.
 
Yeah i guess you are right. I forgot that with the Normal Gem boost Return can do a nice amount of damage.
 
Placeholder. Checking this now.

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106.png


[SET]
name: Unburden
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Return / Earthquake
item: Normal Gem
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Unburden, Hitmonlee becomes arguably the best revenge killer in the RU metagame. It outruns the entire meta[space]game[space]after Normal Gem is used, and with its great coverage and massive Attack stat, it Hitmonlee can demolish a wide variety of threats in the tier. This Hitmonlee is a very good late-game cleaner, and can wipe out whole teams once Ghost- and Psychic-types are eliminated. Hitmonlee's prowess is increased even further by it its access to Fake Out, which essentially doubles its Speed by activating Normal Gem, and thus Unburden.</p>

<p>Close Combat is its Hitmonlee's best STAB move, and lets it eliminate many threats, such as Durant and Aerodactyl. Stone Edge provides great coverage in tandem with Close Combat, allowing Hitmonlee to decimate the likes of Moltres and Sigilyph. Lastly, Return provides Hitmonlee with good neutral coverage, and is its strongest attack against Psychic-types; it also gives Hitmonlee another way to activate Unburden. Earthquake, however, is also an option in the last slot, hitting threats such as Qwilfish and Drapion harder. Finally, Hi Jump Kick is an option over Close Combat since it has higher Base Power, but its side effect can take its toll quite quickly if the opponent has a Ghost-type or a Protect user waiting in the wings.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>An Adamant nature with maximum investment in Attack allows Hitmonlee to hit as hard as possible. Hitmonlee's Speed is also maximized, reaching 273 Speed. This means that it reaches a blistering Speed stat of 546 after Unburden is activated. Hitmonlee also greatly appreciates entry hazard support, as it lets it Hitmonlee pick off Pokemon much more easily. It also appreciates a Rapid Spinner, or at least a grounded Poison-type teammate, as entry hazards—especially Toxic Spikes—are a thorn in the side to Hitmonlee. Thus, Pokemon such as Roselia, Qwilfish, and Claydol make nice partners. A Pursuit user is greatly appreciated as well, as it will allows Psychic-types, such as Cresselia, and Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus, to be wiped wipes Psychic- and Ghost-types, such as Cresselia and Cofagrigus, off of the map, giving Hitmonlee a much easier time demolishing the opponent's team. Pokemon such as Skuntank are good partners for this very reason; Skuntank receives special mention since it is also a grounded Poison-type, thus letting it remove Toxic Spike Spikes as well.</p>

<p>Sadly, priority bypasses Unburden. Thus, common priority users, such as Hitmonchan,[add comma] should be taken out before sending Hitmonlee in (it can take one hit, however). Nevertheless, Mach Punch can be used in place of either Fake Out or Return in an attempt to fix this problem; Fighting Gem becomes a very viable item choice if Mach Punch is used. Blaze Kick is an option in the last slot too, allowing Hitmonlee to hit Pokemon such as Durant and Roselia super effectively.[remove space]</p>

Easy as pie. Or pi? O.o

GP Approved 2/2

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