Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

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My ban on all discussion of things related to Harry Potter 7 has been lifted since anyone who cares about the book should have it finished it by now (if not way before). If you have not done so, then it would be ill-advised to read this thread after the opening post, as it will most certainly contain book details.

I would just like to say that I think Deathly Hallows is JKR's crowning achievement in the Harry Potter series. The book varies in structure and feel from all the others, and it seemed to me a change for the better. The only thing about the novel that doesn't get five stars from me is the Epilogue... but it certainly did not "ruin the book" as I've heard some fans claim.

Feel free to use this thread to vent your feelings about the book, to ask questions about the plot, or whatever else you like!
 
Although I doubt this is necessary for me to say, my post has some spoilers. It also has rampant fanboyism.

It frustrates me to no end to hear people complain about this book, because I loved it. From the sound of it, many people expected a major twist ending or some sort of shocking ending that changed the way you thought about the series forever, and were angry that many of the plot points were guessed by many fans. Snape's allegiance and Harry being a horcrux being prime examples of plot points that many people had made rather accurate predictions about.

The truth is, we (we being the Harry Potter fandom) had sixth sevenths of the story going into this book, and while there will still twists and shockers, if we weren't able to make accurate predictions about a handful of the plot points, as we did, I'd say we were very bad readers. JK Rowling gave us the clues for the sake of not just jumping all of this random information on us. The fact that she spread the seeds of the plot devices of the seventh book as early on as the first book is more a testament to her writing and strong over-arching story. If you were to write a single book, you surely would include details that support the conclusions reached at the end of the book in the beginning and middle rather than springing random information in their faces for the sake of a twist- the same idea is applied to the entire series of Harry Potter, not only as an entire series but in each book itself as well.

Then there are people who are angry with the ending. It's a more-or-less traditional fantasy ending. Being displeased with this ending is like being angry that the ring got destroyed at the end of Lord of the Rings, in my opinion.

When it comes down to it, the book was not the perfect book. But none of the Harry Potter books have been perfect.

And while the epilogue was not a perfectly written part of the series, I do feel that it ends things very nicely, and I don't think I could have asked for more. Except maybe a better name than Albus Severus.
 
Pretty much two things in general bother me as I'm not nitpicking yet.

1. The middle chapters were HORRIBLY LONG! I started the book at 1 in the morning the night it was released. By the time I got to like chapter 12, it was roughly what, 3 or 4, and this was when it was most enduring.

2. Me perosnally didn't get enough closure with the epilogue. There are so many questions as to ask about what happened.
 
I feel as though the epilogue was just tacked on last minute, but it's better than no epilogue at all.

I also found that Snape was my favourite character by the end of the book, after reading about his true allegiance. Did anyone else find that? I mean, yeah, a lot of people predicted he was actually on Dumbledore's side, but I actually believed he was on Voldemort's side after HBP.
 
I had a few issues with it.
1. Yeah, the part where they just kind of hang around in the middle is horribly long and rather dull. Not much going on, in regards to the info/words ratio.
2. The entire Hallows subplot was unguessable. It was really odd that this, something most of the plot depended on, only appeared in the last book. Why have a big epic plot when one of the prime motivators is missing in action till the end? cf: Spiderman 3
3. Why mess around with Dumbledore's past? Is there any real reason to not have a character that is actually good and not haunted by some terrible mistake they made? It's rather politically correct, in that you aren't allowed to have a pure good person or something.
4. The King's Cross scene seems rather cop out-y. Dumbledore is somewhow able to return from the dead to meet Harry in some kind of intermediate zone, for which there is no explanation. It really just seemed like an excuse to have Dumbledore explain everything as usual.
5. Despite Ginny being only 1 year younger than Harry, she is treated as a child by everyone, universally. There isn't really an excuse for this.
6. Voldemort acted poorly, from a tactical point of view. First of all, he knows for sure all but 1 of his Horcruxes are gone. Does he retreat, biuld up again, make more? No, he decides to personally fight, putting himself at maximum risk for little to no explanation. Not only that, but he does not sufficiently abuse his strength: he only uses his "really loud voice" power twice, he wastes an opportunity to inflict more structural damage on Hogwarts, he decides to attack the enemy stronghold when they are at maximum power and morale, ugh... not a very good commander.
7. The death scenes were not particularly well written. They all simply used shock as the main emotion, and were rather dry and short otherwise. Aside from that, dead characters were almost never mentioned after death. Hedwig? Oh well. Moody? Hope you enjoyed your 2 lines. Dobby? You poor sap, your death was only a means to an end.
8. Dumbledore's "plan" was really bad. Is there any way that Snape, believed to be a Death Eater, could possibly approach Harry and tell him he needs to be killed by Voldemort and be obeyed? No. This plan depended on some long odds, all the way through.
9. Plenty of unexplained stuff. How did Umbridge get Moody's eye? etc
10. The whole thing with wand masters was kind of dumb. Apparently Harry was the Elder's Wand's master, because he took Draco's wand, Draco the being the master, despite the fact that he didn't have the wand? Apparently if you get one wand from a person you get ALL their wands.
more later, it's really late.
 
Voldemort attacked Hogwarts because it was the location of his last horcrux, that he didnt know for certain had been destroyed. Because it actually hadnt been destroyed. The books repeated several times that making a lot of horcruxes is extremely difficult.. Voldemort fucked up making 7, I am guessing he wouldnt have been able to make 8.

Kings Cross didnt need an explanation, Dumbledore was a wizard and he planned everything all along..

The Snape's death bit was a little bit convenient, but to be fair, there may be an element to this plan that a happy coincidence made unnecessary, like Snapes lawyer would have told Harry everything, except as it turned out he didnt need to. This is a slightly contrived justification, though I dont think it is all that unreasonable. But we are talking about Harry Potter books.. Given that readers of this book have already accepted the ridiculous endings to books 1, 2 and 4 I think this one was pretty solid.

The deaths were retarded its true. I didnt even notice Lupin had died until he came back from the dead..

I was pretty happy with the Harry defeated Draco concept. It made sense (unlike books 1, 2 and 4!).

As for the Epilogue, it was everything I expected it to be.. I didnt enjoy it, but I was prepared for it and I dont think I would have been statisfied without it.

Basically I thought it was a bit verbose, but otherwise, the best Harry Potter book by some margin.

Have a nice day.
 
Was I the only one who noticed Hermione lied? ("Hey I put a memory charm on my parents!" then later on "I've never done a memory charm before but I know the theory") I kept expecting her to die or something important to come out of this but it ended without resolving it.

The Epilogue really irritated me, mostly because of the lack of other characters. Perhaps Luna is running the Quibbler now, or what George is up to, etc etc. It's sort of unfulfilling.

The character deaths were... rather silly, the villains and heroes alike. Sort of sudden and anticlimatic and such. (particularly voldemort's, i was expecting more EPIC)

Other than that the book was the best one yet. Mrs. Weasley kicked ass in it, which made me laugh. I loved how everything tied together and a lot of the things in the older books came back to propel the events and explain things.
 
I would have really liked it if Lupin and Tonks got an actual death scene. One minute theyre fighting, the next Harry walks past their bodies. That part was a tad anticlimactic. Those two were pretty main characters especially Lupin, I can't see why they were just offed like that.

Ron speaking parstletounge to get into the chamber of secrets was also weird, but I don't have as much of a problem with it as some people.

The whole scene with Neville where he cut of Nagini's head was great. He really proved that he was no longer a useless and scared boy.

All in all I loved the book. I must have, I read it through in one go. Although, the last couple of chapters were strange and I had to re-read them to make sure it wasn't my immagination that Dumbledore was talking to Harry from the dead.
 
I have to say that I was also confused by the whole Elder Wand thing, how Draco was the Master without having it, but because Harry took Draco's other wand he became the master. All confusing really. Anyway, the book was well written even though I guessed the plot twists, and I enjoyed how it explored Harry's character in even more depth then usual. I was really let down by the epilogue, it was quite lacking. I wanted to know if Harry became an Auror, and what Ron, Hermione and co do for a living.
 
I didn't have a problem with the King's Cross sequence. Dumbledore gave no new information, which leads me to believe it's all in Harry's mind.

Bad epilogue.

Ron speaking Parseltongue seemed kind of dumb. "Oh, hey, I can speak German I just make some grunting sounds!"

I agree with people about the death scenes. I, too, was unaware Lupin was dead until he came back.

I disliked the epilogue. I would rather have had no epilogue.

Way too many pages were spent on them camping out doing nothing. I would rather have had more information on the Ministry of Magic, because it just seems like the Death Eaters were all "Oh, despite being the single most protected person in the world, we managed to get control over the Minister of Magic." I can't really easily accept this without seeing at least some of their plans. The takeover of Gringots is also a sticking point for me. I don't imagine what appears to be the entirety of the wizarding world accepting the domination of Gringots for their banking needs without some assurance that random people can't just come in and take control, and if it's making Goblins unhappy, it's doubly dubious. An explanation on Gringots could also have taken the place of at least one of the "sitting around doing nothing but camping" chapters.

If Gringots is really the second safest place (next to Hogwarts), it seems to me that one Goblin, 3 kids, a few weeks planning, and no trust would not be nearly enough to break into one of the highest security vaults in the entire complex (secure enough for Voldemort to trust a piece of his soul to it). That part really needed a more elaborate plan than "imperius a Goblin!" or people would have done that long ago. I mean, really, Gringots has good enough security that they can notice when someone is there even if they don't take anything (first book, VoldeQuirrel trying to get the Sorcerer's Stone), and this is big enough to make the front page of the Daily Prophet, meaning even failed attempts to steal are incredibly rare if someone can get past the first line of security.

In line with the last two points, I would have preferred more of how Hogwarts was taken over. How did they keep people like McGonagall in line with Snape as Headmaster?

The epilogue sucked.

I would have liked to see more of Snape. He's in like 3 scenes. He also seems to get better in ever book.

Rowling is apparently releasing a Harry Potter encyclopedia or whatever. Harry does become an Auror, and so does Ron. They allegedly "revolutionize the Ministry" as far as Auroring goes, which I don't believe for a second. I can understand Harry, yeah, but Ron is a useless person who couldn't revolutionize a spinning top.

Oh, yeah, and the epilogue should have been left out.
 
Was I the only one who noticed Hermione lied? ("Hey I put a memory charm on my parents!" then later on "I've never done a memory charm before but I know the theory") I kept expecting her to die or something important to come out of this but it ended without resolving it.
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JKR explained later that it's a different kind of memory charm. One kind is a mere modification of forgetting some moment, the other is making people think they are someone else.

3. Why mess around with Dumbledore's past? Is there any real reason to not have a character that is actually good and not haunted by some terrible mistake they made? It's rather politically correct, in that you aren't allowed to have a pure good person or something.
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This was needed to explain why Dumbledore had Harry's Cloak, and to show Dumbledore is, after all, just human.

5. Despite Ginny being only 1 year younger than Harry, she is treated as a child by everyone, universally. There isn't really an excuse for this.
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To you and me, no. But remember that she's in a family where each and everyone is older than her and where she is a girl, and that everyone has seen so much suffering and death that they want nothing to happen to her.

9. Plenty of unexplained stuff. How did Umbridge get Moody's eye? etc
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The Ministry got to Moody's body before Bill/Arthur Weasley did. The Death Eaters were pretty much inside the Ministry at that point and Umbridge isn't the kindest person either.

I loved reading this book, it's the only one I started reading at the point I got my hands on it, and finished within 24 hours (both OotP and HBP took me two or three days). I, too, thought the middle was extremely boring (bordering on Order of the Phoenix beginning-boring). Lots of it was predicted by fans which was of course to be expected considering everything has been predicted by fans from "Lily is a Death Eater" to "Lupin dies to Wormtail's silver hand".

There's things I can understand not liking about this book, but it is all more or less negated by the fact that I enjoyed reading it a lot. I didn't like Dobby and Hedwig dying though, both of them seemed so innocent and immune to everything evil surrounding Harry. But that's the reason they were killed off anyway.

I have to say that I was also confused by the whole Elder Wand thing, how Draco was the Master without having it, but because Harry took Draco's other wand he became the master. All confusing really. Anyway, the book was well written even though I guessed the plot twists, and I enjoyed how it explored Harry's character in even more depth then usual. I was really let down by the epilogue, it was quite lacking. I wanted to know if Harry became an Auror, and what Ron, Hermione and co do for a living.
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Draco was its master because he was the one who Disarmed Dumbledore on the Lightning Struck Tower at the end of HBP. Dumbledore intended Snape to have it though. Harry did indeed become an Auror under Kingsley's share, Ron is working at the Weasley's shop with George and Hermione does something with Care for Magical Creatures at the Ministry. JKR gave it all away in an interview later, didn't put it in the books because everyone would be allowed to think their own of the series then.
 
Oh, I almost forgot what is quite possibly my biggest concern with Harry Potter 7: Kreacher.

If Voldemort found out Kreacher was alive, he would likely torture him with cruciatus, then imperius him and make him attack Harry or something. However, when Harry and Co. escape from Number 12 Grimmauld Place, they just leave Kreacher there knowing Death Eaters had compromised it. All Harry had to do was say "Kreacher". Kreacher didn't bring the inferi with him when he was saved before, and in the highly unlikely event that a Death Eater has physical contact with Kreacher when they summon him and people are brought along with house elf apparition, they have 3 vs. 1 and the element of surprise to just stun whatever comes with Kreacher and re-disapparate. Yet despite all of this, Kreacher still thinks Harry is a defender of house elf rights.
 
I generally thought the book was great, but the one thing that I had a problem with was the fact that if Harry's cloak was invisible to all kinds of magic, as the story suggested, how could Mad-Eye see through it in earlier books? This didn't spoil the story or anything, but I kept expecting there to be a twist where his cloak turned out not to be one of the Deathly Hallows because of it, and I was a little disappointed when this wasn't explained.

I can understand the characters missing things, or thinking in not the cleverest way (as a lot of the "complaints" here seem to be) due to the stress of the situation, so I didn't mind this at all.

Also, I thought the epilogue was a bit lame, but not book-ruining as some people think.
 
I thought the Stone was the mirror, because, well, in the beginning harry hints that he has seen Dumbledore's eye, and I was a big fan of the "the 2-way mirror is an entrance to the world inside the veil and they will go there and they will FIGHT" theory. But then goat-lover came along and i was CRUSHED.

All I have to say is the same everyone else said: Albus Severus is a horrible name, the middle chapters were uninteresting. I'd like to add, though, that I feel that this book has been a bit rushed... I liked it, but I think that JK Rowling could have done so much more... one good example of this is Lupin's death. It comes past unnoticed until harry is like "LETS GET HIM FROM THE DEAD!!!"
 
very good book. the early chapter with the motorbike and death eater fight was absolutely legendary
 
Yeah Lupin/Tonks' deaths kind of pissed me off. Seemed unnecessary and orphaned lil' Teddy. But then I thought that maybe Rowling was drawing parallels between Teddy and Harry but...I guess this was not the case. =\

And Rowling stated that Teddy's fate was one of the main reasons that she wrote the Epilogue, which I tend to agree with.

I still don't understand why the hell Draco was the Elder Wand's master, but Mekkah cleared it up for me a bit. Thank you Mekkah. =3 But that still doesn't make sense...shouldn't Snape be the owner since he is the one who killed Dumbledore?

I think the Harry/Dumbledore scene took place in a limbo sort of state because there is no way that Harry could have figured all that information out in his mind.
 
Steeler36 said:
Yeah Lupin/Tonks' deaths kind of pissed me off. Seemed unnecessary and orphaned lil' Teddy. But then I thought that maybe Rowling was drawing parallels between Teddy and Harry but...I guess this was not the case. =\

And Rowling stated that Teddy's fate was one of the main reasons that she wrote the Epilogue, which I tend to agree with.

I still don't understand why the hell Draco was the Elder Wand's master, but Mekkah cleared it up for me a bit. Thank you Mekkah. =3 But that still doesn't make sense...shouldn't Snape be the owner since he is the one who killed Dumbledore?
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Dumbledore chose his own death by asking Snape to kill him. Snape didn't become the Wand's master because he never "defeated" Dumbledore. Draco, however, Disarmed Dumbledore against the will of Dumbledore.

Lupin was killed because Rowling wanted to, once again, kill a father figure to Harry. She originally intended to kill Arthur Weasley but decided later that would be cruel so she took Tonks and Lupin instead.
 
Yeah my biggest complaint was how Lupin/Tonks were "oh look they died! oh well"

On the... Today show? I think anyway, JKR did an interview with Meredith Veira or however her name is spelled and told us a lot of stuff that happened to people after the series. I'm sure you can find it on YouTube, or maybe on the cbs/nbc/abc site, whoever runs the show.
 
Mekkah said:
Dumbledore chose his own death by asking Snape to kill him. Snape didn't become the Wand's master because he never "defeated" Dumbledore. Draco, however, Disarmed Dumbledore against the will of Dumbledore.

Lupin was killed because Rowling wanted to, once again, kill a father figure to Harry. She originally intended to kill Arthur Weasley but decided later that would be cruel so she took Tonks and Lupin instead.
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I thought that reason was lame, I always thought she wanted to finish off the marauders in reverse order. Anyways, I enjoyed the book, it was a fitting ending to the series. The only thing I was really disappointed about was how rushed the ending seemed. There's a couple major plot holes toward the end but I guess they were necessary in order to get to the final duel.
 
ZinkOxide said:
5. Despite Ginny being only 1 year younger than Harry, she is treated as a child by everyone, unsiversally. There isn't really an excuse for this.
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Ginny is treated as a child because she's actually underage. When Harry was under 17 he was also treated as a child by a lot of people, iirc in book 5 this causes a little debate over Order members.

6. Voldemort acted poorly, from a tactical point of view. First of all, he knows for sure all but 1 of his Horcruxes are gone. Does he retreat, biuld up again, make more? No, he decides to personally fight, putting himself at maximum risk for little to no explanation. Not only that, but he does not sufficiently abuse his strength: he only uses his "really loud voice" power twice, he wastes an opportunity to inflict more structural damage on Hogwarts, he decides to attack the enemy stronghold when they are at maximum power and morale, ugh... not a very good commander.
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Voldemort didn't really want to destroy Hogwarts... it's mentioned many times that it's the closest place he had to a "home" and had a great deal of respect for it.

I agree the deaths sucked... Moody could have gotten an explicit fight scene at least. Lupin's death was necessary since all the other marauders were dead, but I don't think the concept of "another orphan" is strong enough to have Tonks be killed, after all, they killed Fred but not George. Killing Hedwig seemed like a way so Harry didn't have to carry her around, since communication through owls was futile, Voldemort could easily intercept them.

Still enjoyed the book though.
 
It was painfully obvious that Snape was on Dumbledore's side, I would have been disappointed if he wasn't. Everyone makes good points in this thread and I did find the book to be disappointing compared to the thrill of the previous ones (particularly the earlier ones). It seems to me that the 'magic' (no pun intended) of the books lies in Hogwarts, where little of the final book was set.

The one line that redeems this book in my eyes is Shacklebolt's patronus at the end of the wedding:
'The Ministry has fallen. Scrimgeour is dead. They are coming.'
It packed so much of a punch at the end of a mild chapter that it sent shivers down my spine. The first part at least was very well written, I can't help thinking that perhaps she ran out of ideas to fill out the book and had to rush it, putting filler in the middle.
 
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