Hey guys! This is an RMT for a hail stall team I have been working on for some time now. Hail stall has always been my favorite playstyle, following the likes of Delko through 4th generation. I took a break and came into 5th gen somewhat fresh, and was quickly assured by many that stall had no place in the new, offensive environment. This team is my attempt to prove that wrong. So here we go.
The team:
Abomasnow (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Focus Punch
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
This here is my Abomasnow. Abomasnow is clearly an important part of any hail team, being the only fully-involved hail inducer. Unfortunately, Abomasnow also sucks. Like, pretty badly. So this is an attempt to make the best of a poor situation. Lots of people try to make Abomasnow into a general-use pokemon by making him a staller, with SubSeed, or a mixed attacker, or something like that. In my view, it's better to simply acknowledge that this dude is pretty bad and give him a specialized role. Aboma is here to win the weather war. Wood Hammer OHKOs every Tyranitar and Politoed set, and EQ OHKOs most Ninetales. This particular Abomasnow also outspeeds most Tyranitar and most defensive Politoed, causing many to rage when their weather inducer suddenly dies on the first turn. Really, Tyranitar I can understand, but why would you leave Politoed in on Abomasnow? What are you going to do? He's grass type anyway...but hey, I don't complain. Ice Shard is in because it's a good priority move, and with CB it packs quite a punch, meaning that Abomasnow can come into games later and stop a dragon-type from sweeping. Focus Punch isn't used often, mostly when forcing out a defensive pokemon, anticipating a Chansey/Blissey switch, or against pokemon like Empoleon and Ferrothorn who love to stay in and try to set up entry hazards. All-in-all, this is my favorite Abomasnow set I've ever used, and I'm pretty sure I've tried, like...every single one in existence.
Walrein (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SDef
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Toxic
This might be the most rage-inducing pokemon ever. Walrein can single-handedly beat many poorly constructed offensive teams, and is often good for 2 to 3 free kills in any given game. Some pick on Walrein because he doesn't have a defined role, and doesn't really have outstanding stats, and "he doesn't counter anything", whatever. That's not really the point. Walrein doesn't "set up on X" or "counter Y", but he does ruthlessly punish poor decisionmaking. One wrong move can lead to Walrein taunting you from behind a substitute for the next 20 minutes. So, as most know, Substitute and Protect combine to form the "32 turns of stall" combination. The moves usually suggested for the last slot are Blizzard, Toxic, Surf and Roar. I don't like Surf because Walrein isn't beating any steel pokemon anyway. Toxic I feel is necessary for the abundance of flying and levitating pokemon out there, and Blizzard I find is a strong generic attack that is quite useful in many situations. I'm open to Roar as a concept, but Walrein I think suffers from 4-moveslot syndrome in this instance - replace Blizzard and he's taunt bait, replace Toxic and he fails to stall out pokemon like Gyarados.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
This is a Blissey, and everybody knows what it does. Heal important pokemon from crippling status effects - check. Sponge special hits - check. Spread toxic to make Walrein's life easier - check. I like Wish as an idea, but I'm not really comfortable with running Wish without Protect, and I can't really drop any of my other moves. Blissey>Chansey because leftovers is necessary with hail damage. Not much to say here, incredibly solid 'mon.
Those three pokemon basically form my core, I haven't changed them at all and I'm not really planning on it (not because I'm not open to, just because their roles are so crucial and they are pretty much the best/only option to fill each of them). The last three slots are where all the changing comes in. I figure in the last three slots I need:
Rapid Spin
Hazards
A physical tank (preferably multiple)
Something with a modicum of offensive presence
Taunt
The following is my current go at it, but I'll provide a short list of other pokemon that have been tested:
Tentacruel
Cloyster
Hippowdon (without sand stream)
Donphan
Ferrothorn
Claydol
Reuniclus
Vaporeon
Jirachi
Gastrodon
Scizor
Mamoswine
Latios
Gliscor
Nidoqueen
Cofagrigus
Togekiss
Nidoking
Yeah, I actually lied, that isn't a short list at all. This is not to say that I won't try any of these pokemon again, just to show that I have gone through a lot in picking the current lineup, and these three seem to work pretty well.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 236 Spd / 220 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Roost
- Blizzard
Kyurem provides the biggest offensive presence on the team, as well as some stallbreaking ability with Substitute and Roost. I prefer this set over more offensive CScarf and CSpecs sets because I think it's more flexible and better fits the overall goal of the team. Blizzard is an outstanding and powerful all-purpose attacking move that puts giant dents into most opponents. Earth Power hits steels and also helps win protracted battles by virtue of lowering opponents SpDef. Substitute is incredibly handy, and also punishes lazy battlers who leave in pokes that can't really touch Kyurem to die, as Kyurem can beat a lot of pokemon when behind a sub that it otherwise couldn't touch, namely, faster dragons. Overall, Kyurem and Mamo are the most obvious choices for hail offense, and I find Kyurem to work pretty damn well with the team so far. In the roles listed above, Kyurem provides the offensive presence I need.
Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch/Toxic Spikes
So, of the above traits, Forretress provides a physical tank, Rapid Spin, and the ever-important Stealth Rock. By far the most important role is that of a spinner, as Kyurem, Walrein, and Abomasnow are all severely limited by any sort of hazards. So Forretress stays alive and in reserve as long as there's a possibility that hazards will still come out. Forry also sets up SR, which is useful as a stall team that aims to protract battles and force switches. Gyro Ball is good against faster pokes, particularly dragons locked into Outrage. Volt Switch is simply used to hurt water types and maintain momentum. I don't really use it much, and am considering replacing it with Toxic Spikes. Overall, I really don't like Forretress as a pokemon, because I feel it is incredibly one-dimensional with no offensive presence at all. However, it is undeniably helpful as a defensive pivot, physical tank, and hazard setter/remover.
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 2 Spd
- Spikes
- Taunt/Toxic
- Recover
- Night Shade/Toxic
Personally, I think Deoxys-D is incredibly underrated. This dude can take hits from just about anybody. Spikes go here rather than on Forretress as Deoxys is better suited to stay in longer by virtue of addressing a larger number of threats. Taunt is necessary as it helps with stallbreaking and preventing excessive setup. Recover keeps Deo alive as long as possible, and Night Shade is a constant source of damage. With Night Shade and Recover, Deo can take out as many as three offensive pokemon in any given game, as they continuously find that they are unable to muscle through his impressive bulk. This guy is more of an all-purpose counter than anything else. I think a more offensive stallbreaker might be nice here, but I can't think of one that doesn't open holes in the team. Also, I'd love to put Toxic somewhere on this moveset, but I don't know if I can spare Taunt or Night Shade, I'd love some advice here.
So that's my team. Here are some of my ideas that come from my experience using it.
Pokes I'd like to try:
Bronzong. I'd really love to fit him in over Deo or Forretress, but Deo has recovery and Forretress has Rapid Spin.
Some sort of stallbreaker, like Mew, but again, anything it replaces opens holes.
I feel like a wish-passer, in particular Jirachi, would be awesome, but I don't know where to fit it in.
I'd LOVE a different spinner, but everything else has major flaws. Tentacruel can't take a hit, Starmie is too offensive, Claydol sucks, Cloyster compounds other weaknesses. I enjoyed Donphan, and like him on the whole, but I find he isn't powerful enough to be an offensive spinner and isn't defensive enough to take big physical hits.
Pokes I really don't like (but I'm open to testing if you guys think it's really necessary):
Toxic Spikes (not technically a pokemon). I used to think this was necessary, but I find that multiple Toxic users more than does the trick. The plethora of spinners and poison types combined with my inability to fit a spinblocker in on the team makes them more of a hassle than a help in most instances.
Tentacruel. He seems to be the default spinner for hail teams but I just think he's not a good pokemon without Rain Dish. He dies to everything, has no recovery, and his offensive presence is not good enough to redeem himself. Plus, Scald's burn chance conflicts with the Toxic that is necessary for this team. Toxic Spikes was addressed above.
Gliscor. Maybe I just haven't found the right set, because I feel like he should fit in great, but every time he seems to die incredibly quickly without helping much.
Threats:
This is tough, because the biggest threats to this team are contingent on the weather, and winning the weather war. For example, Toxicroak is a bitch to deal with if rain is up. But with hail, it really isn't that much of a problem. Ditto Venusaur and other Chlorophyll abusers. Some pokes that are annoying in all instances:
Jirachi is just a bitch to deal with in general, but not a gigantic deal.
I feel like Scizor would be a problem, but I don't see him anymore.
Genesect is tough, but usually dies with some switching and stalling.
GENGAR - this guy actually is really annoying, as Blissey can't hurt him. But usually he dies after some stalling or with a Focus Blast miss.
Keldeo, like Scizor, I feel like he should be a problem but I don't have much experience with him.
Celebi is pretty annoying. Doesn't really pose a huge threat, but I don't really have anything that shuts it down either.
Breloom is always a bitch, similar to Jirachi, but not game-ending.
Most of the games I lose are not because I can't deal with a particular pokemon, but occur through misplays or constant pressure coming from the other team.
Anyway, that's my team, please help me out! Thanks in advance for the rates!
The team:
Abomasnow (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Focus Punch
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
This here is my Abomasnow. Abomasnow is clearly an important part of any hail team, being the only fully-involved hail inducer. Unfortunately, Abomasnow also sucks. Like, pretty badly. So this is an attempt to make the best of a poor situation. Lots of people try to make Abomasnow into a general-use pokemon by making him a staller, with SubSeed, or a mixed attacker, or something like that. In my view, it's better to simply acknowledge that this dude is pretty bad and give him a specialized role. Aboma is here to win the weather war. Wood Hammer OHKOs every Tyranitar and Politoed set, and EQ OHKOs most Ninetales. This particular Abomasnow also outspeeds most Tyranitar and most defensive Politoed, causing many to rage when their weather inducer suddenly dies on the first turn. Really, Tyranitar I can understand, but why would you leave Politoed in on Abomasnow? What are you going to do? He's grass type anyway...but hey, I don't complain. Ice Shard is in because it's a good priority move, and with CB it packs quite a punch, meaning that Abomasnow can come into games later and stop a dragon-type from sweeping. Focus Punch isn't used often, mostly when forcing out a defensive pokemon, anticipating a Chansey/Blissey switch, or against pokemon like Empoleon and Ferrothorn who love to stay in and try to set up entry hazards. All-in-all, this is my favorite Abomasnow set I've ever used, and I'm pretty sure I've tried, like...every single one in existence.
Walrein (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SDef
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Toxic
This might be the most rage-inducing pokemon ever. Walrein can single-handedly beat many poorly constructed offensive teams, and is often good for 2 to 3 free kills in any given game. Some pick on Walrein because he doesn't have a defined role, and doesn't really have outstanding stats, and "he doesn't counter anything", whatever. That's not really the point. Walrein doesn't "set up on X" or "counter Y", but he does ruthlessly punish poor decisionmaking. One wrong move can lead to Walrein taunting you from behind a substitute for the next 20 minutes. So, as most know, Substitute and Protect combine to form the "32 turns of stall" combination. The moves usually suggested for the last slot are Blizzard, Toxic, Surf and Roar. I don't like Surf because Walrein isn't beating any steel pokemon anyway. Toxic I feel is necessary for the abundance of flying and levitating pokemon out there, and Blizzard I find is a strong generic attack that is quite useful in many situations. I'm open to Roar as a concept, but Walrein I think suffers from 4-moveslot syndrome in this instance - replace Blizzard and he's taunt bait, replace Toxic and he fails to stall out pokemon like Gyarados.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
This is a Blissey, and everybody knows what it does. Heal important pokemon from crippling status effects - check. Sponge special hits - check. Spread toxic to make Walrein's life easier - check. I like Wish as an idea, but I'm not really comfortable with running Wish without Protect, and I can't really drop any of my other moves. Blissey>Chansey because leftovers is necessary with hail damage. Not much to say here, incredibly solid 'mon.
Those three pokemon basically form my core, I haven't changed them at all and I'm not really planning on it (not because I'm not open to, just because their roles are so crucial and they are pretty much the best/only option to fill each of them). The last three slots are where all the changing comes in. I figure in the last three slots I need:
Rapid Spin
Hazards
A physical tank (preferably multiple)
Something with a modicum of offensive presence
Taunt
The following is my current go at it, but I'll provide a short list of other pokemon that have been tested:
Tentacruel
Cloyster
Hippowdon (without sand stream)
Donphan
Ferrothorn
Claydol
Reuniclus
Vaporeon
Jirachi
Gastrodon
Scizor
Mamoswine
Latios
Gliscor
Nidoqueen
Cofagrigus
Togekiss
Nidoking
Yeah, I actually lied, that isn't a short list at all. This is not to say that I won't try any of these pokemon again, just to show that I have gone through a lot in picking the current lineup, and these three seem to work pretty well.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 236 Spd / 220 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Roost
- Blizzard
Kyurem provides the biggest offensive presence on the team, as well as some stallbreaking ability with Substitute and Roost. I prefer this set over more offensive CScarf and CSpecs sets because I think it's more flexible and better fits the overall goal of the team. Blizzard is an outstanding and powerful all-purpose attacking move that puts giant dents into most opponents. Earth Power hits steels and also helps win protracted battles by virtue of lowering opponents SpDef. Substitute is incredibly handy, and also punishes lazy battlers who leave in pokes that can't really touch Kyurem to die, as Kyurem can beat a lot of pokemon when behind a sub that it otherwise couldn't touch, namely, faster dragons. Overall, Kyurem and Mamo are the most obvious choices for hail offense, and I find Kyurem to work pretty damn well with the team so far. In the roles listed above, Kyurem provides the offensive presence I need.
Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch/Toxic Spikes
So, of the above traits, Forretress provides a physical tank, Rapid Spin, and the ever-important Stealth Rock. By far the most important role is that of a spinner, as Kyurem, Walrein, and Abomasnow are all severely limited by any sort of hazards. So Forretress stays alive and in reserve as long as there's a possibility that hazards will still come out. Forry also sets up SR, which is useful as a stall team that aims to protract battles and force switches. Gyro Ball is good against faster pokes, particularly dragons locked into Outrage. Volt Switch is simply used to hurt water types and maintain momentum. I don't really use it much, and am considering replacing it with Toxic Spikes. Overall, I really don't like Forretress as a pokemon, because I feel it is incredibly one-dimensional with no offensive presence at all. However, it is undeniably helpful as a defensive pivot, physical tank, and hazard setter/remover.
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 2 Spd
- Spikes
- Taunt/Toxic
- Recover
- Night Shade/Toxic
Personally, I think Deoxys-D is incredibly underrated. This dude can take hits from just about anybody. Spikes go here rather than on Forretress as Deoxys is better suited to stay in longer by virtue of addressing a larger number of threats. Taunt is necessary as it helps with stallbreaking and preventing excessive setup. Recover keeps Deo alive as long as possible, and Night Shade is a constant source of damage. With Night Shade and Recover, Deo can take out as many as three offensive pokemon in any given game, as they continuously find that they are unable to muscle through his impressive bulk. This guy is more of an all-purpose counter than anything else. I think a more offensive stallbreaker might be nice here, but I can't think of one that doesn't open holes in the team. Also, I'd love to put Toxic somewhere on this moveset, but I don't know if I can spare Taunt or Night Shade, I'd love some advice here.
So that's my team. Here are some of my ideas that come from my experience using it.
Pokes I'd like to try:
Bronzong. I'd really love to fit him in over Deo or Forretress, but Deo has recovery and Forretress has Rapid Spin.
Some sort of stallbreaker, like Mew, but again, anything it replaces opens holes.
I feel like a wish-passer, in particular Jirachi, would be awesome, but I don't know where to fit it in.
I'd LOVE a different spinner, but everything else has major flaws. Tentacruel can't take a hit, Starmie is too offensive, Claydol sucks, Cloyster compounds other weaknesses. I enjoyed Donphan, and like him on the whole, but I find he isn't powerful enough to be an offensive spinner and isn't defensive enough to take big physical hits.
Pokes I really don't like (but I'm open to testing if you guys think it's really necessary):
Toxic Spikes (not technically a pokemon). I used to think this was necessary, but I find that multiple Toxic users more than does the trick. The plethora of spinners and poison types combined with my inability to fit a spinblocker in on the team makes them more of a hassle than a help in most instances.
Tentacruel. He seems to be the default spinner for hail teams but I just think he's not a good pokemon without Rain Dish. He dies to everything, has no recovery, and his offensive presence is not good enough to redeem himself. Plus, Scald's burn chance conflicts with the Toxic that is necessary for this team. Toxic Spikes was addressed above.
Gliscor. Maybe I just haven't found the right set, because I feel like he should fit in great, but every time he seems to die incredibly quickly without helping much.
Threats:
This is tough, because the biggest threats to this team are contingent on the weather, and winning the weather war. For example, Toxicroak is a bitch to deal with if rain is up. But with hail, it really isn't that much of a problem. Ditto Venusaur and other Chlorophyll abusers. Some pokes that are annoying in all instances:
Jirachi is just a bitch to deal with in general, but not a gigantic deal.
I feel like Scizor would be a problem, but I don't see him anymore.
Genesect is tough, but usually dies with some switching and stalling.
GENGAR - this guy actually is really annoying, as Blissey can't hurt him. But usually he dies after some stalling or with a Focus Blast miss.
Keldeo, like Scizor, I feel like he should be a problem but I don't have much experience with him.
Celebi is pretty annoying. Doesn't really pose a huge threat, but I don't really have anything that shuts it down either.
Breloom is always a bitch, similar to Jirachi, but not game-ending.
Most of the games I lose are not because I can't deal with a particular pokemon, but occur through misplays or constant pressure coming from the other team.
Anyway, that's my team, please help me out! Thanks in advance for the rates!
