oh yeah forgot to mention it here but we put up some GSC PU sample sets:
PU | GS | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
PU | GS | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
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Lower Tiers GSC PU Discussion Thread (Trap Pass Banned Post #55)
- Thread starter DAWNBUSTER
- Start date
GSC PU PUBD Team Dump
Week 1 - vs Vani (W)
Gastly FWG
https://pokepast.es/5259afc2dbaac6c7
So right out the gate having never played this tier before besides stealing a couple old LpZ teams to help out BloodAce in ALTPL, I tried to take what I learned from watching games in ALTPL to formulate my idea of what was good. Venomoth and Hitmontop, mainly HP Rock Top, were obviously immediate standouts. I didn't really have any other idea of what to use yet or how to even build. Dawn suggested Abra, and I said I would rather use Gastly, so I did. I then just kinda threw this team but with Noctowl together, but I figured I was Gastly weak so I swapped Noct for Magcargo. RestTalk Seadra for Murkow, HP Water Moth since it seemed pretty busted, and HP Electric on Cargo because Rock Slide didn't serve a purpose for me and it helped against Seadra. Gastly has Substitute to reduce prediction against Murkrow and take advantage of a sleeping Hitmontop and because I thought the other moves did very little. Honestly, I thought I used Magnet Gastly this week, but I guess I didn't. I never got to reveal Gastly or Magcargo this game since Seadra just mauled lol. Pretty basic team.
Week 2 - vs DiannieRatson (W)
Double Electric
https://pokepast.es/8ca9f978d3cff5f5
I wanted to toy around with double Electric since both Flaaffy and Elekid were doing really well in other games and in ALTPL. I figured Thief + Ice Punch would be best on Elekid to support Flaffy. I came up (and I believe was maybe the first user of? feel free to fact check) with the idea to use Reflect on Venomoth to help out against Hitmontop since it was an issue with two physically frail special attackers. From there, I threw on Noctowl for Venomoth and Sunflora for Rhyhorn and Seadra.
Week 3 - vs Estarossa (W)
Ground Murk + Curse Cargo FWG
https://pokepast.es/b6df0e4d1ba4ac89
I knew Estarossa would be bringing Spikes so I wanted to use a team that could handle them. I decided I would use Murkrow because it was fast and a decent offensive threat against his frail teams that also didn't care about Spikes, and with HP Ground to smack Elekid. RestTalk Seaking also seemed excellent since he didn't really have much to handle it besides Rhyhorn who would be afraid of Surf and shut down by Sunflora. Seaking also helps immensely with Golbat and Venomoth. Sunflora went on for Seadra and Rhyhorn, and then I had to figure out how to deal with Noctowl. I figured I would use Rhyhorn, but then Soup convinced me Rhyhorn was in fact not very good and didn't do anything Cargo couldn't do, so I just threw on Magcargo and gave it Curse (yes without Sleep Talk because it needs a Fire move and it needs Rock Slide to damage Noct with Curse). Magcargo kinda didn't do anything because it got nuked by HP Ground Bat but Seaking claimed.
Week 4 - vs BloodAce (L)
Double Fighter + Curse Pass Moth
https://pokepast.es/309b0d810f9ae49e
Since this was the week immediately following the DON'T incident (see below), I wanted to use Machoke. I figured the Curse Rock Slide set would be best since I had Hitmontop as my RestTalk fighter, and then I used Light Screen last because Earthquake seemed piss, Body Slam didn't do very much, and it would help against special attackers and hopefully mimic the success of Curse LS Stantler in NU. I wanted to use Curse Pass on Venomoth since it had amazing synergy with both fighters. I threw on Murkrow next since Gastly was a serious issue, especially since I was using Noctowl to handle Venomoth because Magcargo gets folded by Hitmontop and HP Water Moth. Sunflora went on last pretty obligatorily for Rhyhorn and Seadra.
Week 5 - vs Corvere (W)
RestTalk Elekid Double Water + Clefairy
https://pokepast.es/42e38ac2e05707f6
I wanted to use double water since both Seadra and Seaking are quite amazing and they could be more amazing together. RestTalk Elekid went on since I would be struggling bad against Electrics. Originally, I had RestTalk Seadra and Surf Protect Seaking, and I couldn't figure out a decent last, so I asked BloodAce for help. HP Fire Sunflora, HP Electric Seadra, Seaking, and Noctowl were all serious issues. I made Seadra Ice Beam + Haze for Noctowl and Seaking, Seaking RestTalk for Venomoth and to just be much more useful overall, and threw on Clefairy last to answer Sunflora and Seadra and spread paralysis.
Semifinals - vs Corvere (W)
RestTalk Elekid + Noctowl + Seadra
https://pokepast.es/2cea19790753d26b
Since Seadra absolutely folded Corvere in week 5 to the point where I didn't even get to reveal Seaking or Clefairy, I figured I would use it again. I had considered using RestTalk Elekid and Delibird, but I couldn't find a good last, so I took my team from week 5 and swapped out the last two mons. Noctowl went on since I needed a Venomoth check. Sunflora went on last since I sucked hard into Rhyhorn.
Semifinals Tiebreaks - vs LpZ (W)
Gastly + Psychic Drowzee + Curse Pass Moth - Lead Seadra ver.
https://pokepast.es/60c8f1c6e1c853be
Since I never actually revealed Gastly in the game I brought it and I knew Seaking was super deadly, I decided to run back Gastly, this time with Magnet. I also considered using Cubone but decided not to since really the only satisfying team I could come up with was a team LpZ made himself which I didn't really want to choose. Psychic Drowzee seemed like a really good idea since it generally seemed amazing for shutting down Hitmontop and paralyzing stuff and I knew Murkrow was not a very appealing choice into my scout. Using Drowzee also let me use a non-Reflect Moth much more forgivingly, so I went with Curse Pass to create big holes with a boosted Hitmontop. Sunflora went on for Rhyhorn and Seadra as usual, and then I went with Seadra last because it's just really strong and I did need something to switch into Murkrow. Originally I had Hitmontop lead but Cubone was really good into my scout (despite the high amount of Sunfloras) and I felt I could handle Elekid fine with Sunflora and Drowzee, so I put Seadra in the lead to force Cubone out right away.
Finals - vs BloodAce (W)
RestTalk Seaking + Rhyhorn + Psychic Drowzee
https://pokepast.es/a534ae458cf25b36
So I was sick as hell during this week, so I just wanted to use something simple. RestTalk Seaking spoke out to me since BloodAce had extremely low Normal resist usage and it's just good defensively. Over the course of two showers where the voices were speaking out to me, I had pretty much settled on using Sunflora for its synergy with Seaking and Rhyhorn because I hadn't picked it before and Noctowl, Seaking, and Clefairy are nuisances. Drowzee went on last since nothing else seemed better as a Venomoth check (Noctowl is redundant with Seaking and layers weaknesses) and it shuts down Hitmontop, threatens Sunflora, and spreads paralysis for Seaking and Rhyhorn. Venomoth's 4th move was between Giga Drain for Seadra and potentially luring Rhyhorn and Sleep Powder for non-RestTalk Seaking, and I chose Sleep Powder since Seaking with a coverage move for Rhyhorn destroyed me.
Some Thoughts
First of all, I'd just like to thank gum and sensei axew and all the other sandacondas, I had a lot of fun sneaking with you guys. Would also like to thank dawnbuster and BloodAce for helping me throughout the season, DiannieRatson for helping me once or twice, and MrSoup for inspiring me to use Machoke and the DON'T meme.
Ok now actually about GSC PU.
I think building is super constricting. There are a lot of really demanding threats that you need to account for and ignoring any of them is quite disastrous, forcing somewhat homogenous building imo. I even made a whole list that I kept referring to throughout the tour just to keep track of everything I needed to handle.
I didn't really like building a lot of the time during the tournament because there were so many boxes I needed to fill and I didn't want to use a suboptimal team for both my own personal reasons and because I was playing for the rest of the team, so I mostly resorted to pretty standard structures.
This leads into my next point - I don't think Spikes are super worth using most of the time. Honestly, I never once even actually ATTEMPTED to build with Spikes because it looked so painful, though I did consider trying Delibird out a couple times. I know some players (namely Estarossa) think Spikes are good or even mandatory, but I just can't be convinced really. I'm sure they're perfectly fine but currently I can't envision them actually being consistently good when building is already so difficult with six useful Pokemon and using Spikes reduces that number down to five, resulting in a lot of severely flawed teams. I'm sure I definitely showed this myself considering I went 7-1 without a single use of Spikes. I'll probably try them out at some later point, perhaps in GSC Slam, but saying they're even close to mandatory is completely wild imo.
Venomoth is obnoxiously good. It's easily number 2 at minimum and possibly 1. It's really fast, incredibly strong, Stun Spore is a phenomenal move, it has amazing defensive qualities, and on top of that, it has an ENTIRE FILLER MOVESLOT that you can use for basically anything like Reflect, Hidden Power Water, Giga Drain, Sleep Powder, Thief, Protect, or other. Curse Pass is also incredible, and there's some solid potential in sets like RestTalk. You can even drop Stun Spore for a coverage move if you want. Venomoth is just extremely unpredictable, such an immensely demanding presence in the builder, and you have to be extraordinarily cautious in battle to make sure your check to it stays intact. Teams without a Venomoth check are frankly quite awful, and the list of Venomoth checks is quite small, reduced even further by coverage moves, its status options, and Curse Pass.
Sunflora is quite peculiar. On one hand, it's complete dogshit. At the same time, it works so nicely on so many teams and fulfills such a specific and useful defensive niche. Sunflora is weak to Hitmontop, really weak to Venomoth, hates status, and can't check Seaking. It also usually lets Delibird in freely, can't touch Magcargo, and has awful 4mss when it comes to choosing its Hidden Power type. However, Sunflora is most likely the best Seadra check available, is the best Rhyhorn and Cubone check available (besides Tangela who is pretty bad), and is a great check to Elekid, Flaaffy, and Gastly. It's a very weird Pokemon and probably shouldn't be so good but these defensive benefits are in high demand so Sunflora finds its way onto a lot of teams. As for the coverage moves, I think HP Fire ~ HP Ice > HP Rock, but all 3 are useful in their own way. Just depends on what team you're using it on.
Seadra is really really good. I wouldn't say it's banworthy, but it's definitely amazing. Hydro Pump is far and away its best tool, I'm honestly not sure Surf is even worth using since it doesn't 3HKO Hitmontop. 3 attacks + Haze is probably the consistently best set, providing great help against Seaking and Noctowl and hitting everything. Protect could also be a neat option. I'm not much of a fan of Rain Dance, Seadra doesn't really need the power, just click Hydro Pump, and it's kind of a waste of a moveslot and a turn. HP Electric RestTalk is probably the next best set, helping against Venomoth and even Hitmontop, though it's stuffed by Noctowl and Sunflora. I'm pretty confident Ice Beam RestTalk is the worst set, but it's definitely not bad considering opposing Seadra still takes like 40 from Hydro Pump. It's just liable to screw you end game and isn't great against RestTalk Electric Seadra.
Seaking is amazing I probably have it in my top 5. It's so demanding and RestTalk is phenomenal defensively too. It can always just show up and blast you with something like Surf, HP Ground, Protect, Agility, or Mint Berry + Rest too.
Magcargo is kind of sad. It has some really nice traits when it comes to Venomoth and Sunflora but it's such a bad liability against Hitmontop, Seadra, and Seaking, and it can't even beat Noctowl unless you make it strictly worse by fitting something like Curse or Acid Armor. Venomoth can also just like blast you with HP Water lol.
Quick spew, RestTalk Elekid is great but slightly overhyped, Flaaffy is mid because it's too slow and RestTalk Elekid exists, Murkrow is both not that bad and not that good so it's very like slightly above average, and Gastly is underused.
Despite my issues with building I do still find the tier fun and interesting.
That's all, peace.
Week 1 - vs Vani (W)
Gastly FWG
https://pokepast.es/5259afc2dbaac6c7
So right out the gate having never played this tier before besides stealing a couple old LpZ teams to help out BloodAce in ALTPL, I tried to take what I learned from watching games in ALTPL to formulate my idea of what was good. Venomoth and Hitmontop, mainly HP Rock Top, were obviously immediate standouts. I didn't really have any other idea of what to use yet or how to even build. Dawn suggested Abra, and I said I would rather use Gastly, so I did. I then just kinda threw this team but with Noctowl together, but I figured I was Gastly weak so I swapped Noct for Magcargo. RestTalk Seadra for Murkow, HP Water Moth since it seemed pretty busted, and HP Electric on Cargo because Rock Slide didn't serve a purpose for me and it helped against Seadra. Gastly has Substitute to reduce prediction against Murkrow and take advantage of a sleeping Hitmontop and because I thought the other moves did very little. Honestly, I thought I used Magnet Gastly this week, but I guess I didn't. I never got to reveal Gastly or Magcargo this game since Seadra just mauled lol. Pretty basic team.
Week 2 - vs DiannieRatson (W)
Double Electric
https://pokepast.es/8ca9f978d3cff5f5
I wanted to toy around with double Electric since both Flaaffy and Elekid were doing really well in other games and in ALTPL. I figured Thief + Ice Punch would be best on Elekid to support Flaffy. I came up (and I believe was maybe the first user of? feel free to fact check) with the idea to use Reflect on Venomoth to help out against Hitmontop since it was an issue with two physically frail special attackers. From there, I threw on Noctowl for Venomoth and Sunflora for Rhyhorn and Seadra.
Week 3 - vs Estarossa (W)
Ground Murk + Curse Cargo FWG
https://pokepast.es/b6df0e4d1ba4ac89
I knew Estarossa would be bringing Spikes so I wanted to use a team that could handle them. I decided I would use Murkrow because it was fast and a decent offensive threat against his frail teams that also didn't care about Spikes, and with HP Ground to smack Elekid. RestTalk Seaking also seemed excellent since he didn't really have much to handle it besides Rhyhorn who would be afraid of Surf and shut down by Sunflora. Seaking also helps immensely with Golbat and Venomoth. Sunflora went on for Seadra and Rhyhorn, and then I had to figure out how to deal with Noctowl. I figured I would use Rhyhorn, but then Soup convinced me Rhyhorn was in fact not very good and didn't do anything Cargo couldn't do, so I just threw on Magcargo and gave it Curse (yes without Sleep Talk because it needs a Fire move and it needs Rock Slide to damage Noct with Curse). Magcargo kinda didn't do anything because it got nuked by HP Ground Bat but Seaking claimed.
Week 4 - vs BloodAce (L)
Double Fighter + Curse Pass Moth
https://pokepast.es/309b0d810f9ae49e
Since this was the week immediately following the DON'T incident (see below), I wanted to use Machoke. I figured the Curse Rock Slide set would be best since I had Hitmontop as my RestTalk fighter, and then I used Light Screen last because Earthquake seemed piss, Body Slam didn't do very much, and it would help against special attackers and hopefully mimic the success of Curse LS Stantler in NU. I wanted to use Curse Pass on Venomoth since it had amazing synergy with both fighters. I threw on Murkrow next since Gastly was a serious issue, especially since I was using Noctowl to handle Venomoth because Magcargo gets folded by Hitmontop and HP Water Moth. Sunflora went on last pretty obligatorily for Rhyhorn and Seadra.
Week 5 - vs Corvere (W)
RestTalk Elekid Double Water + Clefairy
https://pokepast.es/42e38ac2e05707f6
I wanted to use double water since both Seadra and Seaking are quite amazing and they could be more amazing together. RestTalk Elekid went on since I would be struggling bad against Electrics. Originally, I had RestTalk Seadra and Surf Protect Seaking, and I couldn't figure out a decent last, so I asked BloodAce for help. HP Fire Sunflora, HP Electric Seadra, Seaking, and Noctowl were all serious issues. I made Seadra Ice Beam + Haze for Noctowl and Seaking, Seaking RestTalk for Venomoth and to just be much more useful overall, and threw on Clefairy last to answer Sunflora and Seadra and spread paralysis.
Semifinals - vs Corvere (W)
RestTalk Elekid + Noctowl + Seadra
https://pokepast.es/2cea19790753d26b
Since Seadra absolutely folded Corvere in week 5 to the point where I didn't even get to reveal Seaking or Clefairy, I figured I would use it again. I had considered using RestTalk Elekid and Delibird, but I couldn't find a good last, so I took my team from week 5 and swapped out the last two mons. Noctowl went on since I needed a Venomoth check. Sunflora went on last since I sucked hard into Rhyhorn.
Semifinals Tiebreaks - vs LpZ (W)
Gastly + Psychic Drowzee + Curse Pass Moth - Lead Seadra ver.
https://pokepast.es/60c8f1c6e1c853be
Since I never actually revealed Gastly in the game I brought it and I knew Seaking was super deadly, I decided to run back Gastly, this time with Magnet. I also considered using Cubone but decided not to since really the only satisfying team I could come up with was a team LpZ made himself which I didn't really want to choose. Psychic Drowzee seemed like a really good idea since it generally seemed amazing for shutting down Hitmontop and paralyzing stuff and I knew Murkrow was not a very appealing choice into my scout. Using Drowzee also let me use a non-Reflect Moth much more forgivingly, so I went with Curse Pass to create big holes with a boosted Hitmontop. Sunflora went on for Rhyhorn and Seadra as usual, and then I went with Seadra last because it's just really strong and I did need something to switch into Murkrow. Originally I had Hitmontop lead but Cubone was really good into my scout (despite the high amount of Sunfloras) and I felt I could handle Elekid fine with Sunflora and Drowzee, so I put Seadra in the lead to force Cubone out right away.
Finals - vs BloodAce (W)
RestTalk Seaking + Rhyhorn + Psychic Drowzee
https://pokepast.es/a534ae458cf25b36
So I was sick as hell during this week, so I just wanted to use something simple. RestTalk Seaking spoke out to me since BloodAce had extremely low Normal resist usage and it's just good defensively. Over the course of two showers where the voices were speaking out to me, I had pretty much settled on using Sunflora for its synergy with Seaking and Rhyhorn because I hadn't picked it before and Noctowl, Seaking, and Clefairy are nuisances. Drowzee went on last since nothing else seemed better as a Venomoth check (Noctowl is redundant with Seaking and layers weaknesses) and it shuts down Hitmontop, threatens Sunflora, and spreads paralysis for Seaking and Rhyhorn. Venomoth's 4th move was between Giga Drain for Seadra and potentially luring Rhyhorn and Sleep Powder for non-RestTalk Seaking, and I chose Sleep Powder since Seaking with a coverage move for Rhyhorn destroyed me.
Some Thoughts
First of all, I'd just like to thank gum and sensei axew and all the other sandacondas, I had a lot of fun sneaking with you guys. Would also like to thank dawnbuster and BloodAce for helping me throughout the season, DiannieRatson for helping me once or twice, and MrSoup for inspiring me to use Machoke and the DON'T meme.
Ok now actually about GSC PU.
I think building is super constricting. There are a lot of really demanding threats that you need to account for and ignoring any of them is quite disastrous, forcing somewhat homogenous building imo. I even made a whole list that I kept referring to throughout the tour just to keep track of everything I needed to handle.
This leads into my next point - I don't think Spikes are super worth using most of the time. Honestly, I never once even actually ATTEMPTED to build with Spikes because it looked so painful, though I did consider trying Delibird out a couple times. I know some players (namely Estarossa) think Spikes are good or even mandatory, but I just can't be convinced really. I'm sure they're perfectly fine but currently I can't envision them actually being consistently good when building is already so difficult with six useful Pokemon and using Spikes reduces that number down to five, resulting in a lot of severely flawed teams. I'm sure I definitely showed this myself considering I went 7-1 without a single use of Spikes. I'll probably try them out at some later point, perhaps in GSC Slam, but saying they're even close to mandatory is completely wild imo.
Venomoth is obnoxiously good. It's easily number 2 at minimum and possibly 1. It's really fast, incredibly strong, Stun Spore is a phenomenal move, it has amazing defensive qualities, and on top of that, it has an ENTIRE FILLER MOVESLOT that you can use for basically anything like Reflect, Hidden Power Water, Giga Drain, Sleep Powder, Thief, Protect, or other. Curse Pass is also incredible, and there's some solid potential in sets like RestTalk. You can even drop Stun Spore for a coverage move if you want. Venomoth is just extremely unpredictable, such an immensely demanding presence in the builder, and you have to be extraordinarily cautious in battle to make sure your check to it stays intact. Teams without a Venomoth check are frankly quite awful, and the list of Venomoth checks is quite small, reduced even further by coverage moves, its status options, and Curse Pass.
Sunflora is quite peculiar. On one hand, it's complete dogshit. At the same time, it works so nicely on so many teams and fulfills such a specific and useful defensive niche. Sunflora is weak to Hitmontop, really weak to Venomoth, hates status, and can't check Seaking. It also usually lets Delibird in freely, can't touch Magcargo, and has awful 4mss when it comes to choosing its Hidden Power type. However, Sunflora is most likely the best Seadra check available, is the best Rhyhorn and Cubone check available (besides Tangela who is pretty bad), and is a great check to Elekid, Flaaffy, and Gastly. It's a very weird Pokemon and probably shouldn't be so good but these defensive benefits are in high demand so Sunflora finds its way onto a lot of teams. As for the coverage moves, I think HP Fire ~ HP Ice > HP Rock, but all 3 are useful in their own way. Just depends on what team you're using it on.
Seadra is really really good. I wouldn't say it's banworthy, but it's definitely amazing. Hydro Pump is far and away its best tool, I'm honestly not sure Surf is even worth using since it doesn't 3HKO Hitmontop. 3 attacks + Haze is probably the consistently best set, providing great help against Seaking and Noctowl and hitting everything. Protect could also be a neat option. I'm not much of a fan of Rain Dance, Seadra doesn't really need the power, just click Hydro Pump, and it's kind of a waste of a moveslot and a turn. HP Electric RestTalk is probably the next best set, helping against Venomoth and even Hitmontop, though it's stuffed by Noctowl and Sunflora. I'm pretty confident Ice Beam RestTalk is the worst set, but it's definitely not bad considering opposing Seadra still takes like 40 from Hydro Pump. It's just liable to screw you end game and isn't great against RestTalk Electric Seadra.
Seaking is amazing I probably have it in my top 5. It's so demanding and RestTalk is phenomenal defensively too. It can always just show up and blast you with something like Surf, HP Ground, Protect, Agility, or Mint Berry + Rest too.
Magcargo is kind of sad. It has some really nice traits when it comes to Venomoth and Sunflora but it's such a bad liability against Hitmontop, Seadra, and Seaking, and it can't even beat Noctowl unless you make it strictly worse by fitting something like Curse or Acid Armor. Venomoth can also just like blast you with HP Water lol.
Quick spew, RestTalk Elekid is great but slightly overhyped, Flaaffy is mid because it's too slow and RestTalk Elekid exists, Murkrow is both not that bad and not that good so it's very like slightly above average, and Gastly is underused.
Despite my issues with building I do still find the tier fun and interesting.
That's all, peace.
Last edited:
The weasel most foul
Ever since Hitmonchan's departure from the tier in 2021, a certain ferret emerged as broken in PU. PU saw little tournament play in 2022, but upon its return in 2023 Furret was banned in all tournaments. Now in 2024 with a multiple Furret-less tournaments run and PU Open II on the horizon it is a good time to formalize Furret's ban.
The voter list used for this survey was:
Top 2 from the GSC PU - Furret tour
Top 2 from the PU Open 1
1 win in ALTPL
1 win in PUBD
With overwhelming support to ban, Furret is now officially banned from GSC PU.
In my mind GSC PU is now established and out of it's awkward alpha/beta phase. Any future tier action will be taken through the usual means of a Policy Review thread and Blind Voting. The next order of business is to update GSC PU's resources, VR, and analyses. I welcome anyone who would like to contribute to the future growth of the tier.
Ever since Hitmonchan's departure from the tier in 2021, a certain ferret emerged as broken in PU. PU saw little tournament play in 2022, but upon its return in 2023 Furret was banned in all tournaments. Now in 2024 with a multiple Furret-less tournaments run and PU Open II on the horizon it is a good time to formalize Furret's ban.
The voter list used for this survey was:
Top 2 from the GSC PU - Furret tour
Top 2 from the PU Open 1
1 win in ALTPL
1 win in PUBD
BeeOrSomething : Ban
Estarossa : Ban
BloodAce : Ban
LpZ : Ban
dawnbuster : Ban
vani : Ban
DiannieRatson : Ban
MrSoup : Do Not Ban
Aurist : Ban
SANKE CARP : Ban
Amaranth : Abstain
Estarossa : Ban
BloodAce : Ban
LpZ : Ban
dawnbuster : Ban
vani : Ban
DiannieRatson : Ban
MrSoup : Do Not Ban
Aurist : Ban
SANKE CARP : Ban
Amaranth : Abstain
In my mind GSC PU is now established and out of it's awkward alpha/beta phase. Any future tier action will be taken through the usual means of a Policy Review thread and Blind Voting. The next order of business is to update GSC PU's resources, VR, and analyses. I welcome anyone who would like to contribute to the future growth of the tier.
Since I'm now out of GSC PU open (sad that I lost too early xd but it's so fine since its vs mrsoup anyways) Time for a post!
Team Dump
1. Seadra Spike + Golbat
https://pokepast.es/475d0019f43b49f1
I used this vs soup and won though with luck. This isn't very solid since you can see obvious psychic weakness. I could have made Seaking a Noctowl for that but that's just how I build xd, give up other mu to be stronger versus the mons I expect my opp to bring.
Spikes + Seadra looks so strong. Seadra Hydro Pump can 2hko most mon after spikes chip. Rhyhorn is here as the normal check. Elekid is here as gastly switch-in xd for seaking. Then last mon is Golbat. Vs soup it appreciate being able to be spike immune thus it switched in a lot and actually was the MVP of that game.
2. Stalkid + gastly
https://pokepast.es/30b1736e94367cf7
This team is customizable! Voltorb could be anything as the first 5 looks solid. I used this vs bloodace and only revealed that first 5! I also used this vs soup but lost. I misplayed my Elekid thats why I lost...
3. Flaaffy Trap Pass
https://pokepast.es/a24f4d7f8d328909
Should Baton Pass be banned? I still don't have a very strong opinion here. With HP Rock hitmontop, status from Venomoth, phazers, I think it's not as strong as how I saw Baton Pass in NU.
I tried Growth Pass ala Dewgong NU BP team but realized Eevee is weak to Hitmontop making it tough to set-up...Soup's hitmontop also crit ariados in the game. I eventually gave up and maybe this team could be better with a phazer and some stuffs.
Phazers are more common in PU than NU so yeah idk I'll leave my thoughts at there for now.
Other metagame thoughts Post-Furret Ban
Rock types are still here but some teams now can afford to have none. Seadra has decent defense and can haze away Noctowl set-up. Venomoth Curse Pass is also there as a counterplay. Rocks could also now afford to not run resttalk sets. It still needs to be scared of Venomoth status/4th move but teams now need a more reliable Venomoth check.
Elekid resttalk also changed the metagame. I haven't used Stalkid in Furret meta. A reason for this is Cross Chop as like a last resort vs Furret. Stalkid also means Paraspam Whirl teams need to be built better and not just rely on Elekid being para'd.
To answer Stalkid, I present to y'all...HP Ground Flaaffy! Elekid has poor physical defense so in order to not get stucked with Elekid vs Flaaffy waiting for someone to get para'd, use HP Ground Flaaffy!
The metagame also now seems bulkier and now enters the "Spikes" in the convo. It's hard to build a team with Delibird...Sunflora HP Rock OHKO it like 70% of the time. Tangela could status Miracle Berry-less Delibird. With item, it means Delibird needs to burn the berry first before being able to Thief lefties which is also good in this meta.
Spikes also chip Magnet Gastly putting it on a timer. (Thief Gastly to give up the better Thunder OHKO roll? Even without magnet theres still like 1/4 chance to OHKO murkrow with gastly's Thunder)
Noctowl has been the most popular Furret replacement xd but this comes with an Elec weakness. Even seaking is weak to elecs. So I present to y'all....AIPOM Return Curse Resttalk set! (Don't take it seriously... I haven't tried that either)
I think that's all for now! Looking forward for great games in the ongoing GSC PU open II !
Team Dump
1. Seadra Spike + Golbat
https://pokepast.es/475d0019f43b49f1
I used this vs soup and won though with luck. This isn't very solid since you can see obvious psychic weakness. I could have made Seaking a Noctowl for that but that's just how I build xd, give up other mu to be stronger versus the mons I expect my opp to bring.
Spikes + Seadra looks so strong. Seadra Hydro Pump can 2hko most mon after spikes chip. Rhyhorn is here as the normal check. Elekid is here as gastly switch-in xd for seaking. Then last mon is Golbat. Vs soup it appreciate being able to be spike immune thus it switched in a lot and actually was the MVP of that game.
2. Stalkid + gastly
https://pokepast.es/30b1736e94367cf7
This team is customizable! Voltorb could be anything as the first 5 looks solid. I used this vs bloodace and only revealed that first 5! I also used this vs soup but lost. I misplayed my Elekid thats why I lost...
3. Flaaffy Trap Pass
https://pokepast.es/a24f4d7f8d328909
Should Baton Pass be banned? I still don't have a very strong opinion here. With HP Rock hitmontop, status from Venomoth, phazers, I think it's not as strong as how I saw Baton Pass in NU.
I tried Growth Pass ala Dewgong NU BP team but realized Eevee is weak to Hitmontop making it tough to set-up...Soup's hitmontop also crit ariados in the game. I eventually gave up and maybe this team could be better with a phazer and some stuffs.
Phazers are more common in PU than NU so yeah idk I'll leave my thoughts at there for now.
Other metagame thoughts Post-Furret Ban
Rock types are still here but some teams now can afford to have none. Seadra has decent defense and can haze away Noctowl set-up. Venomoth Curse Pass is also there as a counterplay. Rocks could also now afford to not run resttalk sets. It still needs to be scared of Venomoth status/4th move but teams now need a more reliable Venomoth check.
Elekid resttalk also changed the metagame. I haven't used Stalkid in Furret meta. A reason for this is Cross Chop as like a last resort vs Furret. Stalkid also means Paraspam Whirl teams need to be built better and not just rely on Elekid being para'd.
To answer Stalkid, I present to y'all...HP Ground Flaaffy! Elekid has poor physical defense so in order to not get stucked with Elekid vs Flaaffy waiting for someone to get para'd, use HP Ground Flaaffy!
The metagame also now seems bulkier and now enters the "Spikes" in the convo. It's hard to build a team with Delibird...Sunflora HP Rock OHKO it like 70% of the time. Tangela could status Miracle Berry-less Delibird. With item, it means Delibird needs to burn the berry first before being able to Thief lefties which is also good in this meta.
Spikes also chip Magnet Gastly putting it on a timer. (Thief Gastly to give up the better Thunder OHKO roll? Even without magnet theres still like 1/4 chance to OHKO murkrow with gastly's Thunder)
Noctowl has been the most popular Furret replacement xd but this comes with an Elec weakness. Even seaking is weak to elecs. So I present to y'all....AIPOM Return Curse Resttalk set! (Don't take it seriously... I haven't tried that either)
I think that's all for now! Looking forward for great games in the ongoing GSC PU open II !
First post-trappass ban teamdump and some metagame thoughts
Since I’m out of the most recent gsc pu tour, another teamdump time and some insights about the teams and metagame. As usual, I’ll explain the teams too a bit so those who want to use it have an idea on how it was built and how to envision to pilot it.
https://pokepast.es/e9744b016172fa29
I watched alice’s previous series and noticed the use of spikes so I actually wanted to put staryu here as spinner. I also wanted to be good versus cubone and rhyhorn so I immediately thought of tangela. Then put it the usual elekid moth top then chose owl as the normal wincon since again unlike seaking, it is at least immune to spikes. But then while testing, I noticed that I was weak to seadra and also needed my own normal resist. I also needed another check to hitmontop since as what happened vs leoperi..hp rock crit then my moth/golbat is gg xd. So I had to have my own top to be a top check xd so it’s hp flying. I also not even pull off the tangela hp water tech xd for magcargo. I also had hp water on moth. And to the other issue, I had to use corsola as the normal resist. Then looking at the finished team, I noticed that this looks like the omaflora team I used vs bee..just a diff water/rock + grass combination.
2.Game 2 vs Alice Kazumi Cubone + Ponyta team featuring overloaded seaking
https://pokepast.es/8b6c5f7738d7b9ff
I wanted to use Cubone and since I’m worried about tangela too, I paired it with a fire type in which in here, it’s ponyta in the lead. Alice didn’t delibird in here again though so oof..I guess I fished too much. And then since another rock would make me still weak versus tangela, I need to use Gastly as the normal check. And again I added tangela here which was the unrevealed mon. So now thinking about elekid and seadra, I added the hp ground flaaffy tech here and seaking respectively. I didn’t actually test this team and just made it minutes before the game so welp..in-game that seaking was overloaded since it checked seadra and hitmontop, seadra overpowering its way as my seaking ran out of stalk..It was my mistake to not utilize tangela here as a top check too. But again, I was using hp water tech so Alice’s golbat would get free switch. And alas, alice didn’t use a ground type here either and no elekid too so my match-up fish failed again xd.
3. Game 3 vs Alice Kazumi Geodude + Clef
https://pokepast.es/19acfb9327c856e4
Finally caught a spikes team and I had geodude but uh..I just realized it was a tough time getting geodude in either since even magcargo’s flamethrower dealt a lot of dmg. I was using eq hp rock curse spin set. I even remember faking that I had boom here since I switched in vs tangela in the endgame. But then uh…my clef got burned and tangela could actually 1v1 clef.. Okay going back to the teambuild, I secured my top check this time and its drowzee. Ingame though it just got boomed by gastly and then uh..that was supposed to be a good thing for my clef but Alice had magcargo too along with gastly. Another thing is that clef run out of moonlight pp. And another thing that I forget in this build is I’m weak to cubone..maybe I should have hydro pump ice beam resttalk seadra in here instead..
Will update this post in a week ig since I had some more to say. Noticed I didn’t used Sunflora in these 3 teams? I actually also tried to not just spam this mon in teams but then not only vs alice but also in my previous series vs leoperi, Sunflora really lasts a while. Versus leoperi my elekid run out of stalk and versus alice it was also a menace. One reason is my fault coz you know...I run hp water tangela so it could have 1v1 flora with hp ice. Another up of tangela that’s why I run it more now since I watched the other games and there’s many cubones now xd. Tangela also has extra heal from giga drain. But again, it gets 2hkoed by seadra’s ice beam unlike sunflora. So where are my thought pointing at? Yeah feels like something needs to be figured out with the elekid and seadra that’s not only tricky to deal with inbattle but also in teambuild.
That's all for now
Since I’m out of the most recent gsc pu tour, another teamdump time and some insights about the teams and metagame. As usual, I’ll explain the teams too a bit so those who want to use it have an idea on how it was built and how to envision to pilot it.
- Game 1 vs Alice Kazumi Kid + Corsotang owl
https://pokepast.es/e9744b016172fa29
I watched alice’s previous series and noticed the use of spikes so I actually wanted to put staryu here as spinner. I also wanted to be good versus cubone and rhyhorn so I immediately thought of tangela. Then put it the usual elekid moth top then chose owl as the normal wincon since again unlike seaking, it is at least immune to spikes. But then while testing, I noticed that I was weak to seadra and also needed my own normal resist. I also needed another check to hitmontop since as what happened vs leoperi..hp rock crit then my moth/golbat is gg xd. So I had to have my own top to be a top check xd so it’s hp flying. I also not even pull off the tangela hp water tech xd for magcargo. I also had hp water on moth. And to the other issue, I had to use corsola as the normal resist. Then looking at the finished team, I noticed that this looks like the omaflora team I used vs bee..just a diff water/rock + grass combination.
2.Game 2 vs Alice Kazumi Cubone + Ponyta team featuring overloaded seaking
https://pokepast.es/8b6c5f7738d7b9ff
I wanted to use Cubone and since I’m worried about tangela too, I paired it with a fire type in which in here, it’s ponyta in the lead. Alice didn’t delibird in here again though so oof..I guess I fished too much. And then since another rock would make me still weak versus tangela, I need to use Gastly as the normal check. And again I added tangela here which was the unrevealed mon. So now thinking about elekid and seadra, I added the hp ground flaaffy tech here and seaking respectively. I didn’t actually test this team and just made it minutes before the game so welp..in-game that seaking was overloaded since it checked seadra and hitmontop, seadra overpowering its way as my seaking ran out of stalk..It was my mistake to not utilize tangela here as a top check too. But again, I was using hp water tech so Alice’s golbat would get free switch. And alas, alice didn’t use a ground type here either and no elekid too so my match-up fish failed again xd.
3. Game 3 vs Alice Kazumi Geodude + Clef
https://pokepast.es/19acfb9327c856e4
Finally caught a spikes team and I had geodude but uh..I just realized it was a tough time getting geodude in either since even magcargo’s flamethrower dealt a lot of dmg. I was using eq hp rock curse spin set. I even remember faking that I had boom here since I switched in vs tangela in the endgame. But then uh…my clef got burned and tangela could actually 1v1 clef.. Okay going back to the teambuild, I secured my top check this time and its drowzee. Ingame though it just got boomed by gastly and then uh..that was supposed to be a good thing for my clef but Alice had magcargo too along with gastly. Another thing is that clef run out of moonlight pp. And another thing that I forget in this build is I’m weak to cubone..maybe I should have hydro pump ice beam resttalk seadra in here instead..
Will update this post in a week ig since I had some more to say. Noticed I didn’t used Sunflora in these 3 teams? I actually also tried to not just spam this mon in teams but then not only vs alice but also in my previous series vs leoperi, Sunflora really lasts a while. Versus leoperi my elekid run out of stalk and versus alice it was also a menace. One reason is my fault coz you know...I run hp water tangela so it could have 1v1 flora with hp ice. Another up of tangela that’s why I run it more now since I watched the other games and there’s many cubones now xd. Tangela also has extra heal from giga drain. But again, it gets 2hkoed by seadra’s ice beam unlike sunflora. So where are my thought pointing at? Yeah feels like something needs to be figured out with the elekid and seadra that’s not only tricky to deal with inbattle but also in teambuild.
That's all for now
Hello, I totally forgot to post this before so happy I remembered now, here is the usage from the GSC PU tournament I ran last month:
Nothing too explosive, Spikes teams did well in this tour, Gastly stands out in that top 10 and high winrate. Sunflora continues to fall, Magcargo is underrated as it always is. BP Spider Web being usable in the first couple rounds explains the Ariados.
For those who care, here's the lead stats:
Quite interesting that Delibird actually did better in lead position, it had felt like back Delibird was the more conventional move especially when you consider how overwhelmingly people lead with Elekid.
Thoughts? Prayers? Abra needs the prayers apparently
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Hitmontop | 66 | 73.33% | 43.94% |
| 2 | Venomoth | 62 | 68.89% | 45.16% |
| 3 | Elekid | 59 | 65.56% | 47.46% |
| 4 | Seadra | 37 | 41.11% | 43.24% |
| 5 | Delibird | 36 | 40.00% | 61.11% |
| 6 | Sunflora | 33 | 36.67% | 42.42% |
| 7 | Gastly | 22 | 24.44% | 63.64% |
| 8 | Seaking | 20 | 22.22% | 60.00% |
| 8 | Magcargo | 20 | 22.22% | 60.00% |
| 10 | Flaaffy | 18 | 20.00% | 55.56% |
| 10 | Noctowl | 18 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 12 | Rhyhorn | 16 | 17.78% | 43.75% |
| 13 | Cubone | 14 | 15.56% | 64.29% |
| 13 | Golbat | 14 | 15.56% | 57.14% |
| 13 | Drowzee | 14 | 15.56% | 57.14% |
| 16 | Tangela | 12 | 13.33% | 58.33% |
| 16 | Murkrow | 12 | 13.33% | 25.00% |
| 18 | Corsola | 9 | 10.00% | 11.11% |
| 19 | Sneasel | 8 | 8.89% | 25.00% |
| 20 | Clefairy | 7 | 7.78% | 57.14% |
| 21 | Voltorb | 6 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Ariados | 3 | 3.33% | 66.67% |
| 22 | Ponyta | 3 | 3.33% | 33.33% |
| 24 | Bayleef | 2 | 2.22% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Geodude | 2 | 2.22% | 50.00% |
| 24 | Abra | 2 | 2.22% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Aipom | 1 | 1.11% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Onix | 1 | 1.11% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Mantine | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Machoke | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Koffing | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Omanyte | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Kabuto | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |Nothing too explosive, Spikes teams did well in this tour, Gastly stands out in that top 10 and high winrate. Sunflora continues to fall, Magcargo is underrated as it always is. BP Spider Web being usable in the first couple rounds explains the Ariados.
For those who care, here's the lead stats:
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Elekid | 31 | 34.44% | 45.16% |
| 2 | Venomoth | 22 | 24.44% | 45.45% |
| 3 | Hitmontop | 14 | 15.56% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Delibird | 11 | 12.22% | 72.73% |
| 5 | Flaaffy | 3 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Seadra | 2 | 2.22% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Voltorb | 2 | 2.22% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Cubone | 2 | 2.22% | 0.00% |
| 9 | Ponyta | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 9 | Ariados | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |
| 9 | Kabuto | 1 | 1.11% | 0.00% |Quite interesting that Delibird actually did better in lead position, it had felt like back Delibird was the more conventional move especially when you consider how overwhelmingly people lead with Elekid.
Thoughts? Prayers? Abra needs the prayers apparently
Heh, nice lead ya got there 
Team Dump
GSCPL
(note: not dumping W1, W2, or W7 bc torkon made those himself, W8 bc it was a reuse, and W4 bc it was a dogshit team I shouldn't have made or given to him)
Week 3 - Clef Horn ParaSpam
https://pokepast.es/ee6c1860f6b6dc8f
Built this for gsc slam while I was in an inspired mood and talking with Amity but gscpl came around and I figured I wanted to get to use it because it's a good team. Admittedly, you don't really need Top here; you could use Elekid or Tangela (though with Elec Dra rather than Beam if the latter), but Top is fine too. Team is defensively stable (though opposing Dra and Bone are slightly annoying) and makes great use of the two cursers to help break through. Drowzee is very synergistic with Clefairy since it resists fighting, is an additional para spreader, checks Moth, and can chip away at Rhyhorn. Drowzee also helps against Elekid and both it and Clef are pretty good into the grasses.
Week 5 - HP Ground Seaking Noct Flora
https://pokepast.es/db84dd0ffa4bb60b
Pretty much just started with "we want to use Cubone" cause it's really good at making progress, and then went from there. Branched out from there and made a skeleton with the first five mons. Corsola covers normals, Cargo, and Seadra, Noctowl is good against non-Ice grasses and Venomoth, and Seaking is a good win condition that I wanted to use. Wanted help against Elekid, Gastly, and Rhyhorn, so Flora went on last, with HP Psychic for Venomoth and Hitmontop. s/o feen btw, his replay from I think week 2 inspired me to explore HP Psychic on grasses around week 4 or so.
Week 6 - Clef Horn PsyTang Kid
https://pokepast.es/adab33a151f22235
Torkon had an idea involving Elekid/Clef/Gastly/Cubone/Seaking, but I thought it was too weak to Elec Dra so I modified it into the team seen above. Horn/Tang/Seaking is a great core that covers most things u need, Elekid is a Gastly/other electric switch, and Clefairy is the Sneasel switch and provides additional pressure, and it likes Tangela annoying Rhyhorn. If you don't care about Sneasel though you could replace Clefairy with Delibird or something like vani did and that would be good too.
Finals - Bay Gast Bone Kid
https://pokepast.es/df26d9f8d0dd50a0
I built a team w/ this but Voltorb over Cubone but it had Magcargo issues so I resolved to fix it, and a few builds later came to Cubone, and with two HP Water mons the issue is mostly fixed, although the Sneasel issues were unfixable without using Corsola instead of Gastly (which I wasn't the most thrilled about this time) or Machoke instead of Cubone (which torkon wasn't thrilled about). Also hadn't used Cubone in a bit if you exclude the week 8 reuse so he just went ahead and ran this. Asides from Sneasel, the team is quite good. Extremely potent offensively and handles everything else defensively, and Gastly came in big time against BloodAce's team.
Didn't Use
Pursuit Kid PsyTang Seaking
https://pokepast.es/f1729959f9389ec9
Built this shortly after the week 3 team (i.e. near the end of gsc slam) and I've been sitting on it for a while. Originally had HP Grass + Confusion Tangela because zben's Substitute Seakings were really pissing me off lol but eventually I changed to to Giga HP Psy bc nobody was using Sub Seaking (and at some point during gscpl I also learned Confusion and Synthesis are incompatible lmfao). SuitKid to help out Seaking and cause Rhyhorn and Drowzee covered electrics fine enough. I'd like to s/o zben again for inspiring HP Ground Elekid, it's a cool set if you can fit it with Pursuit or Thief last after Thunder/Ice Punch/Ground.
Poliwhirl Bayleef Corsola
https://pokepast.es/16e880e5e0627452
Built this at the end of week 6 after torkon played cause I wanted to mess with Poliwhirl since it seemed pretty threatening. Biggest issue was making sure Elekid could be removed or overloaded in some way. I considered using Gastly or Voltorb but building with this more defensive angle felt like a more natural process that constrained building less. Psychic Kid + Curse Stun Moth + Noct + Bayleef can put a lot of pressure on other Elekid and ideally Moth or Noct can kill it, and then Whirl is free to do whatever.
Murkrow Noctowl Drowzee
https://pokepast.es/85e8f36ff3278bab
Also built this at the end of week 6 after torkon played since I wanted to experiment with Murkrow to see if I could build something legit with it, though it ended up being a surprisingly difficult challenge. Team is mostly satisfactory if a little passive, and of course Drowzee + Murkrow is to a slight degree a bit redundant lol. Electrics and Hitmontop were some of the more challenging tasks when building this though so I felt pressured to use it. Team regardless kinda blows into Flaaffy though.
Pursuit Kid GeoChoke - Noct Dra
https://pokepast.es/9e6bf7f20b5c17df
Built this during finals. Wanted to try and build with Geodude since I figured BloodAce was gonna bring Spikes against us in finals (he did). Core of Noctowl/Seadra for defense against grounds and Moth, Suit Kid for Gastly, and Machoke for Sneasel and Hitmontop. I like the team overall but Geodude is definitely extremely frail.
Pursuit Kid GeoChoke - Seaking Bay
https://pokepast.es/9f8fafb4be186fa9
Same team as above but with Seaking Bayleef rather than Noctowl Seadra. Safer against Seadra but Cargo is a little more annoying and feels a little less potent offensively.
Drowzee Double STAB Seadra Spikes
https://pokepast.es/d2742f75670466ca
Also built during finals. Wanted to try out Spikes again cause the week 4 team was a failure and I figured there had to be something somewhat satisfying. Drowzee is a good fix to the Hitmontop issue Spikes normally has, and it helps against Elekid, Moth, and Gastly. Yes, double stab Seadra serves a purpose. Like Ice Beam, it provides a second sleep talk attack for grounds (Cubone), but in exchange for being walled by grasses it has a better move to hit Moth, Electrics, and Top while sleep talking and it can potentially beat Sneasel cause Moonlight can only stall out Hydro Pumps really. Same for Corsola though there's a lot more Recovers so it's just extra crit pp. Overall not a great move but it fulfills a purpose here.
Tortle Choke Flora
https://pokepast.es/2d60cdad41b90bd5
DiannieRatson originally used Wartortle in like Week 6 or something and it was interesting, but it seemed bad and passive. Aurist told me about the set though during finals and it using Zap Cannon and Protect, and I thought that was cool, so I wanted to quickly build a team with it. Machoke handles Sneasel, but the team is very Gastly weak so I used Sunflora rather than Bayleef or Tangela. It could probably be an Elekid but I didn't want to over rely on Wartortle and Machoke to handle Rhyhorn since that seemed very vulnerable.
Metagame Thoughts
I have a lot fonder opinion of the tier now than I did early in gscpl, during or after gsc slam, or even after pubd. It's very far from perfect though. There are still issues.
- Venomoth is extraordinarily powerful and I wouldn't go against a ban, though I understand that is controversial and I wouldn't be terribly upset if it stayed either. It's so fast, has unlimited utility and coverage, and is very difficult to deal with consistently. Most pokemon in the tier lose to Venomoth, especially one you don't know the set of. It is extremely constricting in the builder and can easily bullshit through its checks with crits, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore para, or it can just boost up with Curse and pass off to a Hitmontop or something. Yes, Venomoth is an arguably needed injection of offense and breaking power for the tier. I may beg to argue it steps over the line too much though. There is almost no justifiable reason to not use it on a team. Nothing really comes close to its sheer influence and power in the tier.
- Seadra is also insanely restricting, yet unlike Venomoth has a more difficult time getting through its checks. Much of Seadra's usefulness feels bound to RestTalk cause 3 attacks has too many limiting factors and a lack of longevity. In a strange way, Seadra's own oppressiveness makes it easier to handle because you'll likely have the tools for it. I definitely won't argue against it being unhealthy though. I'm not entirely sure if it's banworthy but I wouldn't mind it leaving and I'd probably vote ban. Nearly forcing Sneasel, Corsola, or Grass + Seaking/Elec Dra to handle it consistently just sucks.
- I care to elaborate about Hitmontop. Don't get me wrong. It's definitely not bad. A tier/9th place is still very solid, and it's definitely the best curse pass recipient. It also prays excellently on most spikes teams. A lot of the time though, it just feels exceptionally weak. Being unable to 3HKO Seadra or Seaking sucks so hard and it's constantly under pressure to be trying to crit fish or get good predicts. It's poor against Cubone and Venomoth and it's not even that good of a Rhyhorn check cause +1 Eq is a 2 hit and it's sleeping a lot of the time. Sunflora use is dropping while Tangela and Bayleef are rising. It still has use and it's very nice against pokemon like Sneasel and Elekid and Corsola, and 32 pp is a lot of High Jump Kicks to be clicking and trying for crit, but it feels like it takes the game out of my hands sometimes. Curse Rock has potential but I still don't believe it's that good; generally poor in the mid game and there are better end game sweepers. Curse Talk meanwhile is kinda just a liability because there's almost no way to consistently actually kill Venomoth.
- Grasses are still very good. Sunflora declined for sure but calling it unviable or trash tier is a stretch. It's just more specialized for when you need a grass and a gastly check in one slot imo. Bayleef meanwhile is quite good and Tangela is definitely solid. HP Psychic feels like definitively the best hidden power type for Tangela and Sunflora; Moth and Top are so so much more important than Noctowl and other grasses, and you're probably gonna want a Noctowl check on your team regardless.
- Normal resists feel nearly mandatory. Noctowl and Seaking are everywhere for their Moth-checking capabilities and not being able to handle them reliably is terrible. Sure you can throw Tangela at Seaking and sure you can throw like Ice Beam Seadra + Elekid at Noctowl but it's almost never gonna secure the game is in your hands. All the normal resists are good anyways.
- Sneasel has felt oppressive in the builder to me despite how generally uncommon it is. So few pokemon check it; Hitmontop, Machoke, Corsola, Clefairy, Magcargo, and very little else that won't just get chipped down and die long-term like Venomoth. Yet, despite Sneasel's greatness, there's a lot of flexibility and effectiveness you can get off Spikes without using it, and of course I firmly stand by Spikes being difficult to build and have it be satisfying in the first place. You always lose to something without that 6th slot being a pokemon with real defensive utility beyond switching into grasses and Cubone one time, and while yes I understand other people don't mind that, it just doesn't work for me. Goes back to the thing about agency I mentioned with Hitmontop.
- Spikeless is stronger than Spikes. I'm sure you can tell this belief of mine is pretty obvious by now. But in a tier where collecting offense can be so difficult, getting to use all six of your slots to just completely choke out any singular option the opponent could have to wreck you feels amazing for flexibility of play in-battle and the amount of control you have. It kinda just boils down to that for me. Control advantage is so incredibly strong and your opponent may very well not be able to handle what you have BECAUSE they are using spikes. Again, I'm not calling spikes bad. I just think it's overhyped (certainly not to the tune of using it for nearly every game), and calling spikeless unviable is absolutely a clown act.
- Explosions should be tried out more. Gastly does a lot of great things and boom is the cherry on top. Most commonly it will land on Elekid, which can greatly enable stuff like Seadra, Poliwhirl, your own Elekid, and more. Voltorb is quite similar, though rather than a normal resist it's a paralysis spreader and Thunder user. You could also use screens and that could be very good too.
- Grounds (Cubone and Rhyhorn) are very strong. Cubone is difficult for everything but Noctowl, Tangela, and Bayleef to switch into, and the latter two it can annoy with Body Slam paralysis. It's also useful defensively, and the importance of a powerful physical attacker to force out certain threats like Elekid is understated. Functions great as a Drowzee and Rhyhorn switch too. Speaking of, Rhyhorn is awesome. Normal resist, powerful attacker, and spreader of Toxic onto the grasses or curser against Hitmontop or roarer with Spikes up. Very flexible and splashable. Geodude is also fine but it's kind of a fake ground and it's very specific and fragile.
- Magcargo is really not very good. I talked about this some in my VR but it just does not do enough. Seadra, Cubone, Rhyhorn, Hitmontop, Corsola, and Machoke all check it, and even the best pokemon it pretends to check, Venomoth, can at any time pop it with HP Water or click Curse as it comes in and then click BP to Hitmontop. Trying to check Noctowl and Seaking means having to use Curse. Curse Fire Blast despises status and random chip damage and is still checked easily by a lot, and Curse RestTalk is just food for so much but at least can check Moth and attempt to say fuck you to Hitmontop if it doesn't get crit by one of Top's 32 HJK PP. I actually quite like Fire Blast/Grass/RestTalk Magcargo, it feels like a much more active check to Venomoth and the grasses and HP Grass does a ton to Seadra and Rhyhorn. Of course though, Magcargo can no longer check normal type boosters (and is even a liability) so you have to account for that and you're still weak to everything you're weak to. It's just very constraining on the builder and doesn't do enough in return in most cases.
- Electrics are strong but not oppressive. Elekid is really splashable but it doesn't feel overwhelming, though it definitely demands checks. Flaaffy is much more difficult to switch into but it's a lot slower. Without a good physical attacker to force them out when they click Rest or your own electric to fish for rng or force rests, they can be very difficult to handle though. Definitely great mons and they do a lot.
That's about it. Thank you to torkonpeter for being so diligent and cooperative, you're great and your success was truly deserved. Additional s/o's to LHF for being there all tour and Aurist for hopping in for finals week. See you guys next PUBD in a couple months. I had a lot of fun in this tier this time around, and I'm sure there's more in store.
GSCPL
(note: not dumping W1, W2, or W7 bc torkon made those himself, W8 bc it was a reuse, and W4 bc it was a dogshit team I shouldn't have made or given to him)
Week 3 - Clef Horn ParaSpam
https://pokepast.es/ee6c1860f6b6dc8f
Built this for gsc slam while I was in an inspired mood and talking with Amity but gscpl came around and I figured I wanted to get to use it because it's a good team. Admittedly, you don't really need Top here; you could use Elekid or Tangela (though with Elec Dra rather than Beam if the latter), but Top is fine too. Team is defensively stable (though opposing Dra and Bone are slightly annoying) and makes great use of the two cursers to help break through. Drowzee is very synergistic with Clefairy since it resists fighting, is an additional para spreader, checks Moth, and can chip away at Rhyhorn. Drowzee also helps against Elekid and both it and Clef are pretty good into the grasses.
Week 5 - HP Ground Seaking Noct Flora
https://pokepast.es/db84dd0ffa4bb60b
Pretty much just started with "we want to use Cubone" cause it's really good at making progress, and then went from there. Branched out from there and made a skeleton with the first five mons. Corsola covers normals, Cargo, and Seadra, Noctowl is good against non-Ice grasses and Venomoth, and Seaking is a good win condition that I wanted to use. Wanted help against Elekid, Gastly, and Rhyhorn, so Flora went on last, with HP Psychic for Venomoth and Hitmontop. s/o feen btw, his replay from I think week 2 inspired me to explore HP Psychic on grasses around week 4 or so.
Week 6 - Clef Horn PsyTang Kid
https://pokepast.es/adab33a151f22235
Torkon had an idea involving Elekid/Clef/Gastly/Cubone/Seaking, but I thought it was too weak to Elec Dra so I modified it into the team seen above. Horn/Tang/Seaking is a great core that covers most things u need, Elekid is a Gastly/other electric switch, and Clefairy is the Sneasel switch and provides additional pressure, and it likes Tangela annoying Rhyhorn. If you don't care about Sneasel though you could replace Clefairy with Delibird or something like vani did and that would be good too.
s/o torkon for creating this masterpiece
Finals - Bay Gast Bone Kid
https://pokepast.es/df26d9f8d0dd50a0
I built a team w/ this but Voltorb over Cubone but it had Magcargo issues so I resolved to fix it, and a few builds later came to Cubone, and with two HP Water mons the issue is mostly fixed, although the Sneasel issues were unfixable without using Corsola instead of Gastly (which I wasn't the most thrilled about this time) or Machoke instead of Cubone (which torkon wasn't thrilled about). Also hadn't used Cubone in a bit if you exclude the week 8 reuse so he just went ahead and ran this. Asides from Sneasel, the team is quite good. Extremely potent offensively and handles everything else defensively, and Gastly came in big time against BloodAce's team.
Didn't Use
Pursuit Kid PsyTang Seaking
https://pokepast.es/f1729959f9389ec9
Built this shortly after the week 3 team (i.e. near the end of gsc slam) and I've been sitting on it for a while. Originally had HP Grass + Confusion Tangela because zben's Substitute Seakings were really pissing me off lol but eventually I changed to to Giga HP Psy bc nobody was using Sub Seaking (and at some point during gscpl I also learned Confusion and Synthesis are incompatible lmfao). SuitKid to help out Seaking and cause Rhyhorn and Drowzee covered electrics fine enough. I'd like to s/o zben again for inspiring HP Ground Elekid, it's a cool set if you can fit it with Pursuit or Thief last after Thunder/Ice Punch/Ground.
Poliwhirl Bayleef Corsola
https://pokepast.es/16e880e5e0627452
Built this at the end of week 6 after torkon played cause I wanted to mess with Poliwhirl since it seemed pretty threatening. Biggest issue was making sure Elekid could be removed or overloaded in some way. I considered using Gastly or Voltorb but building with this more defensive angle felt like a more natural process that constrained building less. Psychic Kid + Curse Stun Moth + Noct + Bayleef can put a lot of pressure on other Elekid and ideally Moth or Noct can kill it, and then Whirl is free to do whatever.
Murkrow Noctowl Drowzee
https://pokepast.es/85e8f36ff3278bab
Also built this at the end of week 6 after torkon played since I wanted to experiment with Murkrow to see if I could build something legit with it, though it ended up being a surprisingly difficult challenge. Team is mostly satisfactory if a little passive, and of course Drowzee + Murkrow is to a slight degree a bit redundant lol. Electrics and Hitmontop were some of the more challenging tasks when building this though so I felt pressured to use it. Team regardless kinda blows into Flaaffy though.
Pursuit Kid GeoChoke - Noct Dra
https://pokepast.es/9e6bf7f20b5c17df
Built this during finals. Wanted to try and build with Geodude since I figured BloodAce was gonna bring Spikes against us in finals (he did). Core of Noctowl/Seadra for defense against grounds and Moth, Suit Kid for Gastly, and Machoke for Sneasel and Hitmontop. I like the team overall but Geodude is definitely extremely frail.
Pursuit Kid GeoChoke - Seaking Bay
https://pokepast.es/9f8fafb4be186fa9
Same team as above but with Seaking Bayleef rather than Noctowl Seadra. Safer against Seadra but Cargo is a little more annoying and feels a little less potent offensively.
Drowzee Double STAB Seadra Spikes
https://pokepast.es/d2742f75670466ca
Also built during finals. Wanted to try out Spikes again cause the week 4 team was a failure and I figured there had to be something somewhat satisfying. Drowzee is a good fix to the Hitmontop issue Spikes normally has, and it helps against Elekid, Moth, and Gastly. Yes, double stab Seadra serves a purpose. Like Ice Beam, it provides a second sleep talk attack for grounds (Cubone), but in exchange for being walled by grasses it has a better move to hit Moth, Electrics, and Top while sleep talking and it can potentially beat Sneasel cause Moonlight can only stall out Hydro Pumps really. Same for Corsola though there's a lot more Recovers so it's just extra crit pp. Overall not a great move but it fulfills a purpose here.
Tortle Choke Flora
https://pokepast.es/2d60cdad41b90bd5
DiannieRatson originally used Wartortle in like Week 6 or something and it was interesting, but it seemed bad and passive. Aurist told me about the set though during finals and it using Zap Cannon and Protect, and I thought that was cool, so I wanted to quickly build a team with it. Machoke handles Sneasel, but the team is very Gastly weak so I used Sunflora rather than Bayleef or Tangela. It could probably be an Elekid but I didn't want to over rely on Wartortle and Machoke to handle Rhyhorn since that seemed very vulnerable.
Metagame Thoughts
I have a lot fonder opinion of the tier now than I did early in gscpl, during or after gsc slam, or even after pubd. It's very far from perfect though. There are still issues.
- Venomoth is extraordinarily powerful and I wouldn't go against a ban, though I understand that is controversial and I wouldn't be terribly upset if it stayed either. It's so fast, has unlimited utility and coverage, and is very difficult to deal with consistently. Most pokemon in the tier lose to Venomoth, especially one you don't know the set of. It is extremely constricting in the builder and can easily bullshit through its checks with crits, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore para, or it can just boost up with Curse and pass off to a Hitmontop or something. Yes, Venomoth is an arguably needed injection of offense and breaking power for the tier. I may beg to argue it steps over the line too much though. There is almost no justifiable reason to not use it on a team. Nothing really comes close to its sheer influence and power in the tier.
- Seadra is also insanely restricting, yet unlike Venomoth has a more difficult time getting through its checks. Much of Seadra's usefulness feels bound to RestTalk cause 3 attacks has too many limiting factors and a lack of longevity. In a strange way, Seadra's own oppressiveness makes it easier to handle because you'll likely have the tools for it. I definitely won't argue against it being unhealthy though. I'm not entirely sure if it's banworthy but I wouldn't mind it leaving and I'd probably vote ban. Nearly forcing Sneasel, Corsola, or Grass + Seaking/Elec Dra to handle it consistently just sucks.
- I care to elaborate about Hitmontop. Don't get me wrong. It's definitely not bad. A tier/9th place is still very solid, and it's definitely the best curse pass recipient. It also prays excellently on most spikes teams. A lot of the time though, it just feels exceptionally weak. Being unable to 3HKO Seadra or Seaking sucks so hard and it's constantly under pressure to be trying to crit fish or get good predicts. It's poor against Cubone and Venomoth and it's not even that good of a Rhyhorn check cause +1 Eq is a 2 hit and it's sleeping a lot of the time. Sunflora use is dropping while Tangela and Bayleef are rising. It still has use and it's very nice against pokemon like Sneasel and Elekid and Corsola, and 32 pp is a lot of High Jump Kicks to be clicking and trying for crit, but it feels like it takes the game out of my hands sometimes. Curse Rock has potential but I still don't believe it's that good; generally poor in the mid game and there are better end game sweepers. Curse Talk meanwhile is kinda just a liability because there's almost no way to consistently actually kill Venomoth.
- Grasses are still very good. Sunflora declined for sure but calling it unviable or trash tier is a stretch. It's just more specialized for when you need a grass and a gastly check in one slot imo. Bayleef meanwhile is quite good and Tangela is definitely solid. HP Psychic feels like definitively the best hidden power type for Tangela and Sunflora; Moth and Top are so so much more important than Noctowl and other grasses, and you're probably gonna want a Noctowl check on your team regardless.
- Normal resists feel nearly mandatory. Noctowl and Seaking are everywhere for their Moth-checking capabilities and not being able to handle them reliably is terrible. Sure you can throw Tangela at Seaking and sure you can throw like Ice Beam Seadra + Elekid at Noctowl but it's almost never gonna secure the game is in your hands. All the normal resists are good anyways.
- Sneasel has felt oppressive in the builder to me despite how generally uncommon it is. So few pokemon check it; Hitmontop, Machoke, Corsola, Clefairy, Magcargo, and very little else that won't just get chipped down and die long-term like Venomoth. Yet, despite Sneasel's greatness, there's a lot of flexibility and effectiveness you can get off Spikes without using it, and of course I firmly stand by Spikes being difficult to build and have it be satisfying in the first place. You always lose to something without that 6th slot being a pokemon with real defensive utility beyond switching into grasses and Cubone one time, and while yes I understand other people don't mind that, it just doesn't work for me. Goes back to the thing about agency I mentioned with Hitmontop.
- Spikeless is stronger than Spikes. I'm sure you can tell this belief of mine is pretty obvious by now. But in a tier where collecting offense can be so difficult, getting to use all six of your slots to just completely choke out any singular option the opponent could have to wreck you feels amazing for flexibility of play in-battle and the amount of control you have. It kinda just boils down to that for me. Control advantage is so incredibly strong and your opponent may very well not be able to handle what you have BECAUSE they are using spikes. Again, I'm not calling spikes bad. I just think it's overhyped (certainly not to the tune of using it for nearly every game), and calling spikeless unviable is absolutely a clown act.
- Explosions should be tried out more. Gastly does a lot of great things and boom is the cherry on top. Most commonly it will land on Elekid, which can greatly enable stuff like Seadra, Poliwhirl, your own Elekid, and more. Voltorb is quite similar, though rather than a normal resist it's a paralysis spreader and Thunder user. You could also use screens and that could be very good too.
- Grounds (Cubone and Rhyhorn) are very strong. Cubone is difficult for everything but Noctowl, Tangela, and Bayleef to switch into, and the latter two it can annoy with Body Slam paralysis. It's also useful defensively, and the importance of a powerful physical attacker to force out certain threats like Elekid is understated. Functions great as a Drowzee and Rhyhorn switch too. Speaking of, Rhyhorn is awesome. Normal resist, powerful attacker, and spreader of Toxic onto the grasses or curser against Hitmontop or roarer with Spikes up. Very flexible and splashable. Geodude is also fine but it's kind of a fake ground and it's very specific and fragile.
- Magcargo is really not very good. I talked about this some in my VR but it just does not do enough. Seadra, Cubone, Rhyhorn, Hitmontop, Corsola, and Machoke all check it, and even the best pokemon it pretends to check, Venomoth, can at any time pop it with HP Water or click Curse as it comes in and then click BP to Hitmontop. Trying to check Noctowl and Seaking means having to use Curse. Curse Fire Blast despises status and random chip damage and is still checked easily by a lot, and Curse RestTalk is just food for so much but at least can check Moth and attempt to say fuck you to Hitmontop if it doesn't get crit by one of Top's 32 HJK PP. I actually quite like Fire Blast/Grass/RestTalk Magcargo, it feels like a much more active check to Venomoth and the grasses and HP Grass does a ton to Seadra and Rhyhorn. Of course though, Magcargo can no longer check normal type boosters (and is even a liability) so you have to account for that and you're still weak to everything you're weak to. It's just very constraining on the builder and doesn't do enough in return in most cases.
- Electrics are strong but not oppressive. Elekid is really splashable but it doesn't feel overwhelming, though it definitely demands checks. Flaaffy is much more difficult to switch into but it's a lot slower. Without a good physical attacker to force them out when they click Rest or your own electric to fish for rng or force rests, they can be very difficult to handle though. Definitely great mons and they do a lot.
That's about it. Thank you to torkonpeter for being so diligent and cooperative, you're great and your success was truly deserved. Additional s/o's to LHF for being there all tour and Aurist for hopping in for finals week. See you guys next PUBD in a couple months. I had a lot of fun in this tier this time around, and I'm sure there's more in store.
Last edited:
Not sure when/if I'll be playing GSC PU in the near future, so just wanted to drop a team I've been using for a while that always has success:
https://pokepast.es/7b958aa730ad185c
Not sure where to submit samples so I want to leave it here. The team is really funny - I originally made it for GSC Grand Slam to face BeeOrSomething because I thought it'd be funny to win with a Beedrill named BeeOrSomething vs BeeOrSomething on the winscreen, and it was surprisingly successful even after that tournament and used by myself and others in many tests during GSC PL. Cursepass to Restalk Top is pretty broken if you can pull it off, and the Beedrill is actually surprisingly solid if you can cursepass to it and then use Agility.
Tier is very fun, I wouldn't make any changes at all. Nothing is broken and we shouldn't be banning things just for "convenience" because they bother us. I think a shakeup would be good after an NU VR update and may have a positive impact on some of the issues people seem to have with the tier at the moment, looking forward to when that happens.
https://pokepast.es/7b958aa730ad185c
Not sure where to submit samples so I want to leave it here. The team is really funny - I originally made it for GSC Grand Slam to face BeeOrSomething because I thought it'd be funny to win with a Beedrill named BeeOrSomething vs BeeOrSomething on the winscreen, and it was surprisingly successful even after that tournament and used by myself and others in many tests during GSC PL. Cursepass to Restalk Top is pretty broken if you can pull it off, and the Beedrill is actually surprisingly solid if you can cursepass to it and then use Agility.
Tier is very fun, I wouldn't make any changes at all. Nothing is broken and we shouldn't be banning things just for "convenience" because they bother us. I think a shakeup would be good after an NU VR update and may have a positive impact on some of the issues people seem to have with the tier at the moment, looking forward to when that happens.
GSC PU Sample Teams
(main link: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen2pu)
(main link: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen2pu)
Click on the sprites to get the pokepaste link!
Spikes Toxic Horn+Tect Veno - Estarossa
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Balance Cubone+Gastly - BeeOrSomething
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Spikes Talk Veno - vani
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BO Curse Pass Veno - torkonpeter
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Balance Curse Rock Top - Alice Kazumi
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Spikes CurseTalk Mag - Aurist
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Spikes Geodude - DiannieRatson
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SDTect Seaking+HP Psy Flora - BeeOrSomething
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Double Elec+Talk Veno - torkonpeter
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Clefairy+Toxic Horn - BeeOrSomething
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Spikes Curse Top+Thief Gastly - Aurist
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Spikes Wartortle - DiannieRatson
You forgot mineGSC PU Sample Teams
(main link: https://www.smogon.com/roa/?format=gen2pu)
Click on the sprites to get the pokepaste link!
Spikes Toxic Horn+Tect Veno - Estarossa
—
Balance Cubone+Gastly - BeeOrSomething
—
Spikes Talk Veno - vani
—
BO Curse Pass Veno - torkonpeter
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Balance Curse Rock Top - Alice Kazumi
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Spikes CurseTalk Mag - Aurist
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Spikes Geodude - DiannieRatson
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SDTect Seaking+HP Psy Flora - BeeOrSomething
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Double Elec+Talk Veno - torkonpeter
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Clefairy+Toxic Horn - BeeOrSomething
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Spikes Curse Top+Thief Gastly - Aurist
—
Spikes Wartortle - DiannieRatson
PUBD Team Dump
Week 1 - vs SANKE CARP (W)
Bone Choke Corsola
https://pokepast.es/9bc833479d6a1a88
I remembered from when Sanke played GSC PU before in PU Open last year that he used a ton of double electric and ran mostly old standard-sorta teams like Moth/Top/Grass/Water, so I knew I wanted to use Cubone and Elekid and go from there. Noctowl for Cubone and Moth, Corsola for Seadra/Sneasel/Normals/Magcargo, Machoke for Sneasel and an extra physical attacker to pressure electrics. Horn MU can get a little shaky but Bone Choke Giga Moth is mostly fine. Big fan of this team, it's quite potent offensively.
Week 2 - vs LustfulLice (L)
Bee Flaaff SurfSneasel Spikeless
https://pokepast.es/1fb39b0e82477bae
Wanted to use Beedrill cause someone used it week 1 and it interested me. Wanted a strong defensive core and then Beedrill as a breaker/sweeper, so I did that. Flaaffy for electrics and cause it hits hard, Tangela for grounds, Hitmontop, and offensive pressure, Noctowl for Venomoth, and Horn for normals and a way to force out electrics. The real interesting part here is Sneasel. Now, I could probably like cut Noctowl and Sneasel for Seaking and Venomoth, but I didn't want to do that cause it was boring and Seadra seemed annoying. I do think there's a place for Sneasel on spikeless, shutting down Seadra/Tangela/Sunflora and doing some damage is pretty nice. As for why Surf and not Ice Beam, it's mostly paranoia about Magcargo while still slamming Horn. Ice Beam is probably a bit better because Horn's on the team and for whatever reason Flaaffy is great at pissing off Magcargo users by refusing to die, but Surf is still neat. Team's weak to Sneasel but I didn't have much information on Lice and Sneasel is generally uncommon.
Week 3 - vs torkonpeter (L)
GeoTop SuitKid TalkMoth Flora
https://pokepast.es/9520105495386fad
I saw that in nearly every game tournament game torkon played where he didn't use one of my teams, he ran spikes, so I came up with a few options to prepare. This is the one I settled on, featuring Hitmontop and Geodude as the anti-spikes core. Hitmontop is quite strong into Spikes teams because they tend to be frailer and stuff like Sneasel and Rhyhorn are prime targets for it, and Geodude doesn't need much explanation. Went with SuitKid + Seaking as the main offensive force and to delete Gastly and protect against Venomoth. Flora last since my Elekid isn't RestTalk and its extra special defense is appreciated, and it still resists ground. RestTalk Moth here cause Tangela seemed annoying.
Week 4 - vs Gallinova (W)
SlideBone SpinTop Cargo DZ
https://pokepast.es/4ca35727cdde27b9
Figured Estarossa would be supporting Gallinova, so I prepared for Spikes (though he ended up just using torkon's double electric from GSCPL). Slide Cubone for lead Elekid and to delete Delibird trying to switch in T1 is the most obvious case. Grass Talk Cargo + Drowzee is also a pretty solid core that makes Spikes users' life difficult, and Gastly as the normal resist to cover for Curse-less Cargo. Ended up going with Hitmontop as well to lay on the pressure, and while RestTalk is totally fine too, I chose Spin to really mess with Delibird. Seadra last as a bandaid for grounds and other Seadra, and it's additional help against like Water Moth or something. I had also noticed that in general a lot of people were using Seadra-weak teams too.
Week 5 - vs BloodAce (L)
Tang StunCurseMoth Spikes
https://pokepast.es/f88cc44803d316b7
Decided for the first time ever to bring Spikes, mainly because BloodAce used a lot of weird gimmicky teams with the goal of being fast and aggressive, so I wanted to try out Sneasel Spikes but with a backbone. Team is fairly standard fare, but with Stun Curse Moth in the lead since 1. I didn't have a good lead other than Moth 2. Stun Curse is pretty good at messing with electrics and I was fine into grounds. Team's weak to Sneasel but other than that it's quite good, and only one super apparent weakness is better than most spikes teams.
Some general thoughts
- Venomoth is still the top dog but definitely not mandatory
- Flaaffy is really good and a bitch to switch into
- Suit/Thief Kid is underused
- Sneasel is really fuckin good but criminally underused and underprepared for
- Somehow I still see teams completely blown up by RestTalk Seadra, Noctowl, or Seaking
- RestTalk Blast Grass Magcargo is quite good
- Poliwhirl is a bitch and extremely variance/matchup heavy, I wouldn't mind if it vanished from the tier
- 3 attacks Seadra has some really strong matchups but feels difficult to justify putting on a team
- Screech Moth is quite strong but the moveslot restriction made me not think of using it too much when Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, and other options are also so good
- Voltorb and Gastly are both good (Gastly especially) since Explosion is so valuable, but they're underused. Voltorb should also be PU
- Murkrow is trash and should be sent to ZU
- Golbat, while individually is a perfectly fine pokemon, isn't that good since Moth is so much better
- Machoke is underrated
I did make a lot of other teams during the tournament that I didn't use, but slam is ongoing so I will keep them to myself for now. I went with a very different building direction this tour compared to GSCPL, ended up being a lot more experimental and even dropping Moth 3 times, culminating in my first ever use of Spikes in GSC PU. I had a lot of fun, but there was definitely something left to be desired. Looking forward to the VR update soon.
Final s/o to Aurist for being there and helping throughout the tour, I know you wanted a shot to play GSC and I think you deserved it but that's not how it went. I'm pretty frustrated that my record was so poor because of awful fortune in a few games when I know I'm good enough to win every time, but that's just how it goes sometimes. Thank you to my managers Drud and SergioRules for continuing to have faith in me throughout and having me play for your team, I appreciate it and I'm sorry that my performance was disappointing.
Week 1 - vs SANKE CARP (W)
Bone Choke Corsola
https://pokepast.es/9bc833479d6a1a88
I remembered from when Sanke played GSC PU before in PU Open last year that he used a ton of double electric and ran mostly old standard-sorta teams like Moth/Top/Grass/Water, so I knew I wanted to use Cubone and Elekid and go from there. Noctowl for Cubone and Moth, Corsola for Seadra/Sneasel/Normals/Magcargo, Machoke for Sneasel and an extra physical attacker to pressure electrics. Horn MU can get a little shaky but Bone Choke Giga Moth is mostly fine. Big fan of this team, it's quite potent offensively.
Week 2 - vs LustfulLice (L)
Bee Flaaff SurfSneasel Spikeless
https://pokepast.es/1fb39b0e82477bae
Wanted to use Beedrill cause someone used it week 1 and it interested me. Wanted a strong defensive core and then Beedrill as a breaker/sweeper, so I did that. Flaaffy for electrics and cause it hits hard, Tangela for grounds, Hitmontop, and offensive pressure, Noctowl for Venomoth, and Horn for normals and a way to force out electrics. The real interesting part here is Sneasel. Now, I could probably like cut Noctowl and Sneasel for Seaking and Venomoth, but I didn't want to do that cause it was boring and Seadra seemed annoying. I do think there's a place for Sneasel on spikeless, shutting down Seadra/Tangela/Sunflora and doing some damage is pretty nice. As for why Surf and not Ice Beam, it's mostly paranoia about Magcargo while still slamming Horn. Ice Beam is probably a bit better because Horn's on the team and for whatever reason Flaaffy is great at pissing off Magcargo users by refusing to die, but Surf is still neat. Team's weak to Sneasel but I didn't have much information on Lice and Sneasel is generally uncommon.
Week 3 - vs torkonpeter (L)
GeoTop SuitKid TalkMoth Flora
https://pokepast.es/9520105495386fad
I saw that in nearly every game tournament game torkon played where he didn't use one of my teams, he ran spikes, so I came up with a few options to prepare. This is the one I settled on, featuring Hitmontop and Geodude as the anti-spikes core. Hitmontop is quite strong into Spikes teams because they tend to be frailer and stuff like Sneasel and Rhyhorn are prime targets for it, and Geodude doesn't need much explanation. Went with SuitKid + Seaking as the main offensive force and to delete Gastly and protect against Venomoth. Flora last since my Elekid isn't RestTalk and its extra special defense is appreciated, and it still resists ground. RestTalk Moth here cause Tangela seemed annoying.
Week 4 - vs Gallinova (W)
SlideBone SpinTop Cargo DZ
https://pokepast.es/4ca35727cdde27b9
Figured Estarossa would be supporting Gallinova, so I prepared for Spikes (though he ended up just using torkon's double electric from GSCPL). Slide Cubone for lead Elekid and to delete Delibird trying to switch in T1 is the most obvious case. Grass Talk Cargo + Drowzee is also a pretty solid core that makes Spikes users' life difficult, and Gastly as the normal resist to cover for Curse-less Cargo. Ended up going with Hitmontop as well to lay on the pressure, and while RestTalk is totally fine too, I chose Spin to really mess with Delibird. Seadra last as a bandaid for grounds and other Seadra, and it's additional help against like Water Moth or something. I had also noticed that in general a lot of people were using Seadra-weak teams too.
Week 5 - vs BloodAce (L)
Tang StunCurseMoth Spikes
https://pokepast.es/f88cc44803d316b7
Decided for the first time ever to bring Spikes, mainly because BloodAce used a lot of weird gimmicky teams with the goal of being fast and aggressive, so I wanted to try out Sneasel Spikes but with a backbone. Team is fairly standard fare, but with Stun Curse Moth in the lead since 1. I didn't have a good lead other than Moth 2. Stun Curse is pretty good at messing with electrics and I was fine into grounds. Team's weak to Sneasel but other than that it's quite good, and only one super apparent weakness is better than most spikes teams.
Some general thoughts
- Venomoth is still the top dog but definitely not mandatory
- Flaaffy is really good and a bitch to switch into
- Suit/Thief Kid is underused
- Sneasel is really fuckin good but criminally underused and underprepared for
- Somehow I still see teams completely blown up by RestTalk Seadra, Noctowl, or Seaking
- RestTalk Blast Grass Magcargo is quite good
- Poliwhirl is a bitch and extremely variance/matchup heavy, I wouldn't mind if it vanished from the tier
- 3 attacks Seadra has some really strong matchups but feels difficult to justify putting on a team
- Screech Moth is quite strong but the moveslot restriction made me not think of using it too much when Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, and other options are also so good
- Voltorb and Gastly are both good (Gastly especially) since Explosion is so valuable, but they're underused. Voltorb should also be PU
- Murkrow is trash and should be sent to ZU
- Golbat, while individually is a perfectly fine pokemon, isn't that good since Moth is so much better
- Machoke is underrated
I did make a lot of other teams during the tournament that I didn't use, but slam is ongoing so I will keep them to myself for now. I went with a very different building direction this tour compared to GSCPL, ended up being a lot more experimental and even dropping Moth 3 times, culminating in my first ever use of Spikes in GSC PU. I had a lot of fun, but there was definitely something left to be desired. Looking forward to the VR update soon.
Final s/o to Aurist for being there and helping throughout the tour, I know you wanted a shot to play GSC and I think you deserved it but that's not how it went. I'm pretty frustrated that my record was so poor because of awful fortune in a few games when I know I'm good enough to win every time, but that's just how it goes sometimes. Thank you to my managers Drud and SergioRules for continuing to have faith in me throughout and having me play for your team, I appreciate it and I'm sorry that my performance was disappointing.