[OVERVIEW]
One of the top Pokémon in the metagame, Groudon is incredibly difficult to deal with reliably. With Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake alongside good coverage options in Rock Slide and Hidden Power Ghost it is a very significant threat, and with great typing and excellent defensive stats it can reliably take hits to set up or generally trade with opponents. Furthermore, the sunlight it brings is incredible team support, reducing Thunder accuracy and preventing freeze, both of which benefit Latios switchins significantly; it also powers up Fire-type moves, helping teammates deal with Metagross and Forretress. Notably, Ho-Oh benefits very significantly from all of these. However, Groudon often has difficulty finding the moveslots for all the moves it wants, usually needing to forgo one of its coverage moves and letting itself be walled by either Latios or Ho-Oh; It also does not not have reliable recovery, making managing its health much more difficult.
[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Rock Slide / Hidden Power Ghost
move 4: Thunder Wave / Hidden Power Ghost / Rock Slide / Overheat
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
This set limits what pokemon can handle Groudon and allows both it and its team to take advantage of its short list of checks. No pokemon on the ground likes taking Groudon’s Earthquake, especially when Spikes are in the picture. As for the few pokemon immune to Groudon’s STAB, almost all of them take issue with one of Hidden Power Ghost or Rock Slide that may be backed by a Swords Dance boost. Swords Dance not only allows Groudon to threaten its would-be checks with coverage but also allows it to boost faster than Curse Snorlax allowing it to check Snorlax most of the time. Thunder Wave really turns Groudon into a progress machine as it forces the Eon Twins, some of its best and most common checks, to Refresh off the paralysis lest they be completely unable to check +2 Groudon next time it is in. This has immense utility on many teams as it allows a partnered Snorlax to come in untouched by the dragons. Every other ground-immune check is generally unable to remove the paralysis on their own, which can be an enormous opportunity for both Groudon and its team. Lugia, in particular, is in significant amounts of danger if it is left paralyzed and Groudon is armed with +2 Rock Slide. Overheat will be used on more defensively-minded teams who don’t benefit as much from Thunder Wave but would instead love the ability to roast a Forretress, Skarmory, or a Heracross at a moment’s notice.
The HP and Special Defense investment allow Groudon to tank a Soul Dew Latios Ice Beam after damage from 1 layer of Spikes. The Attack EVs and the Adamant nature make sure Groudon has a strong shot at 2HKOing most paralyzed Lugia with either +2 Rock Slide or Hidden Power Ghost and also puts enough power behind Earthquake to dissuade Kyogre switch-ins. Leftovers help offset damage from Spikes and also may give a low health Groudon another opportunity to attack through exceptional play assuming Spikes aren’t on the field.
Team Options
=========
Thunder Wave Groudon is one of the best ways to support a Snorlax in the game as it forces an opposing Latios or Latias to use Refresh instead of attacking the Snorlax on its way in. In general, Thunder Wave Groudon will fit almost any team style because of its synergy with Snorlax and the passive benefits of harsh sunlight.
The list of pokemon that benefit from Drought’s harsh sunlight cutting Thunder’s accuracy is quite expansive with all of Snorlax, Blissey, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi and quite a few more niche pokemon all loving the Thunder nerf. Ho-Oh in particular loves Groudon’s sunlight powering up its Sacred Fire with the sun also allowing Forretress, Metagross, Deoxys-A and Jirachi to make use of Hidden Power Fire or Fire Punch. Deoxys-A and Latios may also make use of charge-less Solar Beam with Groudon on the team though this is uncommon for them. Pokemon with Chlorophyll such as Exeggutor and Victreebel can also make use of their speed being doubled in the sun but this is also somewhat uncommon.
Paradoxically, Kyogre and Groudon can do surprisingly well when used on the same team. They share a similar list of checks and are both quite capable of messing with this short list in rather brutal fashion. One will usually take on this sort of tank role while the other is allowed to use more dangerous but less important sets. Having Kyogre on the team makes the benefits of Drought unreliable, of course.
[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Rock Slide
item: Salac Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 204 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Groudon is limiting its own utility in favor of becoming difficult to stop. Max Attack investment and Swords Dance’s boost make Earthquake one of the deadliest moves in the game though choosing between the coverage of Hidden Power Ghost or Rock Slide will almost always leave it wanting against the few common Earthquake immune Pokemon. Hidden Power Ghost invalidates Latios’ and Latias’ ability to handle Groudon once its boosts are in order and does a respectable amount of damage to Lugia. +2 HP Ghost’s ability to erase eon twins will set up a 2 for 1 against offense teams as Groudon draws in said eon twin to KO it and forces in Deoxys-A to revenge KO Groudon with Extremespeed; This sets up a partnered Pursuit user to remove Deoxys-A from the game. The one pokemon that causes trouble for HP Ghost Groudon is Ho-Oh which is why Rock Slide is also a viable option. +2 Attack Rock Slide also does very respectable damage to Latios and Latias, has a small power advantage against Lugia, and comes with that famous flinch rate though HP Ghost is generally preferred for its damage output against Latios and Latias even when unboosted.
Groudon’s Attack is maxed to make its attacks KO as much as possible while its Speed investment with the Salac Berry Boost lets it move before Extreme Speed-less Deoxys-A without a boosting nature to its own Speed. The HP investment makes sure Groudon eats its Salac Berry after 3 Substitute uses and the rest of the EVs are in Special Defense so Groudon takes Ice Beam from Mewtwo, Kyogre, and Latias as well as possible.
Team Options
=========
Groudon requires Pursuit support from Metagross when using this set as Deoxys-A is the most common way of halting a Salac Berry Groudon sweep. Skarmory is one of the worst pokemon this Groudon set can face which makes Magneton’s ability to forcefully remove it very appealing. Otherwise, overall threatening teammates like Latios and an allied Deoxys-A enjoy the damage Groudon does to a team and also help lead to positions where Groudon may get its Substitute if played well. Self-Destruct Snorlax can also help position Groudon. Because SubSalac Groudon doesn't protect Snorlax from Latios on the switch-in Snorlax's longevity is worsened, which makes trading its longevity for progress more appealing.
[SET]
name: Toxic Protect (lasen’s project)
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Flamethrower / Roar / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Impish / Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Set Description
=========
This set takes advantage of Groudon’s tremendous bulk to be a more traditional tank. The combination of Protect and Toxic allows Groudon to chip down switch-ins such as Lugia, opposing Groudon, Latios or Latias lacking Refresh, and Salamence. Protect also comes with the added benefits of allowing Groudon survive longer for weather war purposes while also catching Explosion and Self-Destruct from weakened foes who cannot otherwise beat Groudon such as Metagross, Forretress, and Snorlax. Flamethrower is an excellent way for Groudon to deal with Steel-types that handle Ground moves such as Forretress and Skarmory, stopping them from using Spikes against Groudon freely. Roar can be used instead in conjunction with Spikes, racking up damage and ridding Groudon of problematic matchups that may try to come in on a predicted Protect. Rock Slide can be run to bluff a different set while also beating Ho-Oh.
248 HP and 56 Defense EVs with an Impish nature allow Groudon to almost always live through most Snorlax’s Self-Destruct while also softening other common physical attacks such as Meteor Mash from Metagross or any physical hit from Deoxys-A. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Defense to help Groudon take a stray sun-weakened Water-type move from Kyogre or an Ice Beam and still remain as healthy as possible for the weather war should the need arise.
Team Options
=========
Blissey is an excellent team member to use with this Groudon as this one will be unable to threaten most Latias and Latios. Snatch Blissey in particular helps take advantage of Kyogre while actively threatening the mentioned Latios and Latias. Because this Groudon has an easier time winning a weather war due to Protect, Ho-Oh is a very strong teammate due to how much it benefits from harsh sunlight’s passive effects. A Latios or Latias carrying Ice Beam should also be considered because this Groudon set has trouble winning a duel with a more standard Swords Dance Groudon. Other measures to handle opposing Groudon and Snorlax should also be considered as this Groudon set uniquely struggles with them. Lugia, Spikes from Skarmory, Deoxys-D, or Forretress, and even the highly niche Weezing are examples. A Choice Band Deoxys-A to quickly swat a persistent Snorlax out of a game is also a good idea.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Body Slam can be used on the tank set if Groudon’s goal is less about protecting its team from Eon Twin attacks and more about damaging them with the potential of paralysis. This can be effective on some Blissey teams. Bulk Up and Rest can be used on stall teams in order to make it marginally better in the Groudon mirror and to save its health against a Snorlax that is crazy or desperate enough to try and fight it. Swords Dance sets tend to be better overall. Choice Band Groudon can be an effective lead lure with its ability to OHKO Mewtwo with Earthquake and Latios with HP Ghost. A spread of 136 HP / 216 Atk / 156 SpD with an Adamant or Brave nature is needed to survive their Ice Beams and still maintain the OHKO on them. The final moveslots get two of Body Slam, Rock Slide, Overheat, Thunder Wave, or Double-Edge. Fast Choice Band Groudon, with 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature, will still survive Mewtwo Ice Beam but will outspeed Smeargle for an OHKO and most Kyogre to critically damage the whale. The Speed makes it a bit more dangerous later in the game as well.
Checks and Counters
=============
**Latios and Latias**: The Eon Twins are the only ground immune Pokemon that threaten Groudon immediately with very strong Ice Beams and can Refresh off paralysis. If they ever leave the field paralyzed, they are no longer reliable checks.
**Spikes**: Spikes usually ensure damage done to Groudon is permanent instead of Leftovers passively removing damage it has sustained. The second and especially the third layer or Spikes really cut into Tank Groudon’s longevity and make Pokemon like Snorlax and Metagross far more threatening to it over the course of a game.
**Kyogre**: A healthy Kyogre can handle pretty much any attack Groudon can use and either threaten it with a rain-booster water move or a powerful Ice Beam. Kyogre also removes all of the benefits of Groudon’s Drought with its Drizzle making the longevity of both pokemon very important.
**Lugia**: Defensive Lugia is difficult for Groudon to handle with its combination of raw stats, Toxic, Whirlwind, and Reflect. Lugia is afraid of Rock Slide Groudon if it is ever paralyzed and Reflect is gone.
**Skarmory**: Skarmory is the toughest pokemon for Groudon to break unless it is running a fire move. It will use Spikes and Whirlwind to make tank Groudon less effective overall and will completely stop Salac Groudon without an unreasonable amount of Rock Slide flinches.
**Rayquaza**: It doesn’t handle tank Groudon super well but will single handedly invalidate a Sub Salac Groudon just by being Spikes immune and having Extremespeed. The odd Ice Beam from Rayquaza does hurt tank Groudon a bit.
**Mewtwo**: While Mewtwo hates switching into Groudon attacks, it has a very strong Ice Beam to use against it. A Groudon that has been taking attacks all game is very afraid of this Ice Beam and all Groudon are afraid of +1 Ice Beam if the Mewtwo uses Calm Mind against it.
**Deoxys-Attack**: Deoxys-Attack has a very strong Ice Beam it uses on Petaya Berry sets. While most Attack-biased Deoxys-A have trouble threatening a healthy Groudon, a few of them use Solar Beam which will effectively take Groudon out of the game if it doesn’t KO the Groudon. Deoxys-A’s Extreme Speed is the most effective way to stop a Salac Berry Groudon if it can’t maintain a Substitute.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Inspirited, 127823], [Ajencis, 479200], [Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
One of the top Pokémon in the metagame, Groudon is incredibly difficult to deal with reliably. With Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake alongside good coverage options in Rock Slide and Hidden Power Ghost it is a very significant threat, and with great typing and excellent defensive stats it can reliably take hits to set up or generally trade with opponents. Furthermore, the sunlight it brings is incredible team support, reducing Thunder accuracy and preventing freeze, both of which benefit Latios switchins significantly; it also powers up Fire-type moves, helping teammates deal with Metagross and Forretress. Notably, Ho-Oh benefits very significantly from all of these. However, Groudon often has difficulty finding the moveslots for all the moves it wants, usually needing to forgo one of its coverage moves and letting itself be walled by either Latios or Ho-Oh; It also does not not have reliable recovery, making managing its health much more difficult.
[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Rock Slide / Hidden Power Ghost
move 4: Thunder Wave / Hidden Power Ghost / Rock Slide / Overheat
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
This set limits what pokemon can handle Groudon and allows both it and its team to take advantage of its short list of checks. No pokemon on the ground likes taking Groudon’s Earthquake, especially when Spikes are in the picture. As for the few pokemon immune to Groudon’s STAB, almost all of them take issue with one of Hidden Power Ghost or Rock Slide that may be backed by a Swords Dance boost. Swords Dance not only allows Groudon to threaten its would-be checks with coverage but also allows it to boost faster than Curse Snorlax allowing it to check Snorlax most of the time. Thunder Wave really turns Groudon into a progress machine as it forces the Eon Twins, some of its best and most common checks, to Refresh off the paralysis lest they be completely unable to check +2 Groudon next time it is in. This has immense utility on many teams as it allows a partnered Snorlax to come in untouched by the dragons. Every other ground-immune check is generally unable to remove the paralysis on their own, which can be an enormous opportunity for both Groudon and its team. Lugia, in particular, is in significant amounts of danger if it is left paralyzed and Groudon is armed with +2 Rock Slide. Overheat will be used on more defensively-minded teams who don’t benefit as much from Thunder Wave but would instead love the ability to roast a Forretress, Skarmory, or a Heracross at a moment’s notice.
The HP and Special Defense investment allow Groudon to tank a Soul Dew Latios Ice Beam after damage from 1 layer of Spikes. The Attack EVs and the Adamant nature make sure Groudon has a strong shot at 2HKOing most paralyzed Lugia with either +2 Rock Slide or Hidden Power Ghost and also puts enough power behind Earthquake to dissuade Kyogre switch-ins. Leftovers help offset damage from Spikes and also may give a low health Groudon another opportunity to attack through exceptional play assuming Spikes aren’t on the field.
Team Options
=========
Thunder Wave Groudon is one of the best ways to support a Snorlax in the game as it forces an opposing Latios or Latias to use Refresh instead of attacking the Snorlax on its way in. In general, Thunder Wave Groudon will fit almost any team style because of its synergy with Snorlax and the passive benefits of harsh sunlight.
The list of pokemon that benefit from Drought’s harsh sunlight cutting Thunder’s accuracy is quite expansive with all of Snorlax, Blissey, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi and quite a few more niche pokemon all loving the Thunder nerf. Ho-Oh in particular loves Groudon’s sunlight powering up its Sacred Fire with the sun also allowing Forretress, Metagross, Deoxys-A and Jirachi to make use of Hidden Power Fire or Fire Punch. Deoxys-A and Latios may also make use of charge-less Solar Beam with Groudon on the team though this is uncommon for them. Pokemon with Chlorophyll such as Exeggutor and Victreebel can also make use of their speed being doubled in the sun but this is also somewhat uncommon.
Paradoxically, Kyogre and Groudon can do surprisingly well when used on the same team. They share a similar list of checks and are both quite capable of messing with this short list in rather brutal fashion. One will usually take on this sort of tank role while the other is allowed to use more dangerous but less important sets. Having Kyogre on the team makes the benefits of Drought unreliable, of course.
[SET]
name: Sub Salac
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Rock Slide
item: Salac Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 204 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Groudon is limiting its own utility in favor of becoming difficult to stop. Max Attack investment and Swords Dance’s boost make Earthquake one of the deadliest moves in the game though choosing between the coverage of Hidden Power Ghost or Rock Slide will almost always leave it wanting against the few common Earthquake immune Pokemon. Hidden Power Ghost invalidates Latios’ and Latias’ ability to handle Groudon once its boosts are in order and does a respectable amount of damage to Lugia. +2 HP Ghost’s ability to erase eon twins will set up a 2 for 1 against offense teams as Groudon draws in said eon twin to KO it and forces in Deoxys-A to revenge KO Groudon with Extremespeed; This sets up a partnered Pursuit user to remove Deoxys-A from the game. The one pokemon that causes trouble for HP Ghost Groudon is Ho-Oh which is why Rock Slide is also a viable option. +2 Attack Rock Slide also does very respectable damage to Latios and Latias, has a small power advantage against Lugia, and comes with that famous flinch rate though HP Ghost is generally preferred for its damage output against Latios and Latias even when unboosted.
Groudon’s Attack is maxed to make its attacks KO as much as possible while its Speed investment with the Salac Berry Boost lets it move before Extreme Speed-less Deoxys-A without a boosting nature to its own Speed. The HP investment makes sure Groudon eats its Salac Berry after 3 Substitute uses and the rest of the EVs are in Special Defense so Groudon takes Ice Beam from Mewtwo, Kyogre, and Latias as well as possible.
Team Options
=========
Groudon requires Pursuit support from Metagross when using this set as Deoxys-A is the most common way of halting a Salac Berry Groudon sweep. Skarmory is one of the worst pokemon this Groudon set can face which makes Magneton’s ability to forcefully remove it very appealing. Otherwise, overall threatening teammates like Latios and an allied Deoxys-A enjoy the damage Groudon does to a team and also help lead to positions where Groudon may get its Substitute if played well. Self-Destruct Snorlax can also help position Groudon. Because SubSalac Groudon doesn't protect Snorlax from Latios on the switch-in Snorlax's longevity is worsened, which makes trading its longevity for progress more appealing.
[SET]
name: Toxic Protect (lasen’s project)
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Flamethrower / Roar / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Impish / Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Set Description
=========
This set takes advantage of Groudon’s tremendous bulk to be a more traditional tank. The combination of Protect and Toxic allows Groudon to chip down switch-ins such as Lugia, opposing Groudon, Latios or Latias lacking Refresh, and Salamence. Protect also comes with the added benefits of allowing Groudon survive longer for weather war purposes while also catching Explosion and Self-Destruct from weakened foes who cannot otherwise beat Groudon such as Metagross, Forretress, and Snorlax. Flamethrower is an excellent way for Groudon to deal with Steel-types that handle Ground moves such as Forretress and Skarmory, stopping them from using Spikes against Groudon freely. Roar can be used instead in conjunction with Spikes, racking up damage and ridding Groudon of problematic matchups that may try to come in on a predicted Protect. Rock Slide can be run to bluff a different set while also beating Ho-Oh.
248 HP and 56 Defense EVs with an Impish nature allow Groudon to almost always live through most Snorlax’s Self-Destruct while also softening other common physical attacks such as Meteor Mash from Metagross or any physical hit from Deoxys-A. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Defense to help Groudon take a stray sun-weakened Water-type move from Kyogre or an Ice Beam and still remain as healthy as possible for the weather war should the need arise.
Team Options
=========
Blissey is an excellent team member to use with this Groudon as this one will be unable to threaten most Latias and Latios. Snatch Blissey in particular helps take advantage of Kyogre while actively threatening the mentioned Latios and Latias. Because this Groudon has an easier time winning a weather war due to Protect, Ho-Oh is a very strong teammate due to how much it benefits from harsh sunlight’s passive effects. A Latios or Latias carrying Ice Beam should also be considered because this Groudon set has trouble winning a duel with a more standard Swords Dance Groudon. Other measures to handle opposing Groudon and Snorlax should also be considered as this Groudon set uniquely struggles with them. Lugia, Spikes from Skarmory, Deoxys-D, or Forretress, and even the highly niche Weezing are examples. A Choice Band Deoxys-A to quickly swat a persistent Snorlax out of a game is also a good idea.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Body Slam can be used on the tank set if Groudon’s goal is less about protecting its team from Eon Twin attacks and more about damaging them with the potential of paralysis. This can be effective on some Blissey teams. Bulk Up and Rest can be used on stall teams in order to make it marginally better in the Groudon mirror and to save its health against a Snorlax that is crazy or desperate enough to try and fight it. Swords Dance sets tend to be better overall. Choice Band Groudon can be an effective lead lure with its ability to OHKO Mewtwo with Earthquake and Latios with HP Ghost. A spread of 136 HP / 216 Atk / 156 SpD with an Adamant or Brave nature is needed to survive their Ice Beams and still maintain the OHKO on them. The final moveslots get two of Body Slam, Rock Slide, Overheat, Thunder Wave, or Double-Edge. Fast Choice Band Groudon, with 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature, will still survive Mewtwo Ice Beam but will outspeed Smeargle for an OHKO and most Kyogre to critically damage the whale. The Speed makes it a bit more dangerous later in the game as well.
Checks and Counters
=============
**Latios and Latias**: The Eon Twins are the only ground immune Pokemon that threaten Groudon immediately with very strong Ice Beams and can Refresh off paralysis. If they ever leave the field paralyzed, they are no longer reliable checks.
**Spikes**: Spikes usually ensure damage done to Groudon is permanent instead of Leftovers passively removing damage it has sustained. The second and especially the third layer or Spikes really cut into Tank Groudon’s longevity and make Pokemon like Snorlax and Metagross far more threatening to it over the course of a game.
**Kyogre**: A healthy Kyogre can handle pretty much any attack Groudon can use and either threaten it with a rain-booster water move or a powerful Ice Beam. Kyogre also removes all of the benefits of Groudon’s Drought with its Drizzle making the longevity of both pokemon very important.
**Lugia**: Defensive Lugia is difficult for Groudon to handle with its combination of raw stats, Toxic, Whirlwind, and Reflect. Lugia is afraid of Rock Slide Groudon if it is ever paralyzed and Reflect is gone.
**Skarmory**: Skarmory is the toughest pokemon for Groudon to break unless it is running a fire move. It will use Spikes and Whirlwind to make tank Groudon less effective overall and will completely stop Salac Groudon without an unreasonable amount of Rock Slide flinches.
**Rayquaza**: It doesn’t handle tank Groudon super well but will single handedly invalidate a Sub Salac Groudon just by being Spikes immune and having Extremespeed. The odd Ice Beam from Rayquaza does hurt tank Groudon a bit.
**Mewtwo**: While Mewtwo hates switching into Groudon attacks, it has a very strong Ice Beam to use against it. A Groudon that has been taking attacks all game is very afraid of this Ice Beam and all Groudon are afraid of +1 Ice Beam if the Mewtwo uses Calm Mind against it.
**Deoxys-Attack**: Deoxys-Attack has a very strong Ice Beam it uses on Petaya Berry sets. While most Attack-biased Deoxys-A have trouble threatening a healthy Groudon, a few of them use Solar Beam which will effectively take Groudon out of the game if it doesn’t KO the Groudon. Deoxys-A’s Extreme Speed is the most effective way to stop a Salac Berry Groudon if it can’t maintain a Substitute.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Inspirited, 127823], [Ajencis, 479200], [Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
Last edited: