OU Greninja-Ash

MANNAT

MANNAT

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[OVERVIEW]

* Ash-Greninja is a fearsome offensive wallbreaker that can hit insanely hard with its Choice Specs-boosted STAB attacks.
*Water Shuriken, is a special attack with a guaranteed 60 Base Power after Greninja transforms, making Ash-Greninja a very effective revenge killer.
* Ash-Greninja's frightening offensive stats make it a pain to switch into its STAB moves, and the Speed increase also lets it outspeed otherwise faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Weavilei
* Less prediction is required with Ash-Greninja than Protean Greninja, as it relies upon its main STAB attacks instead of its coverage moves.
* Ash-Greninja doesn't transform until it KOes something, meaning that you are forced to use a Pokemon that's quite weak by OU standards until it knocks a foe out.
* Ash-Greninja is very frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, so it can't switch into anything very well aside from weak resisted hits like Scald from Toxapex and Psychic-type moves.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Shuriken
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Water Shuriken is a very effective priority move, knocking out faster sweepers such as Pheromosa in one turn and revenge killing weakened Pokemon.
* Dark Pulse is the most spammable STAB move on this set, 2HKOing virtually every neutral target in the tier and having very few sturdy switch-ins.
* Hydro Pump is the best secondary STAB move because it allows you to nuke the opposing team in situations where they lack good Water-type switch-ins
* U-turn is useful because Greninja forces a lot of switches, and it allows you to maintain momentum when your opponent switches into a Greninja check like Tapu Bulu without forcing you to predict.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Special Attack coupled with maximum Speed and a Timid nature maximizes Greninja's damage output while allowing it to outspeed fast Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Weavile after transforming as well as Starmie and Mega Metagross before transforming.
* Choice Specs allows Ash-Greninja to fire off its STAB attacks with a lot of power and ensures that it doesn't get worn down when spamming U-turn.

Usage Tips
========

* Use U-turn when the provided momentum will be more significant than getting damage against a Pokemon that can wall it, such as when your opponent has a defensive Tapu Fini to freely switch into Ash-Greninja, and when it's obvious that you have an opportunity to punish your opponent sacrificing a Pokemon.
* Before transforming, be aggressive with bringing Greninja into weakened targets that it can revenge kill so that your opponent is forced into an unfavorable position.
* Try to bring in Ash-Greninja with free switches or with VoltTurn users to give it as many opportunities to fire off its Choice Specs-boosted STAB moves.
* Use Water Shuriken to revenge kill weakened Pokemon and offensive threats like Pheromosa that are OHKOed by it.
* You can play mind games with your opponent, bluffing Protean Greninja early-game and double switching out to confuse them until their team has been worn down to a point where they have to sacrifice a Pokemon to you.
* Lastly, you will rarely use U-turn after transforming due to just how powerful Ash-Greninja's attacks are.

Team Options
========

* Swords Dance Landorus-T with Flynium Z can break through defensive Water-types that can be problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with as well as surprising Grass-types with Fly.
* Dugtrio can be a very effective teammate for its ability to trap and cripple or KO Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Chansey that are problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with normally.
* Pokemon that use Volt Switch or U-turn such as Genesect and Tapu Koko can form a momentum core with Ash-Greninja and give it opportunities to switch in and fire off its STAB moves.
* Entry hazard support is very valuable for Ash-Greninja, as it punishes the many switches that Greninja forces.
* General physical wallbreakers such as Choice Band Kyurem-B are very good partners to beat the normal defensive answers to Greninja such as Chansey.
* Tapu Fini utilizing Nature's Madness makes an excellent teammate for Greninja because it can cripple Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu to a point that they can't switch into Ash-Greninja.
* Offensive Psychic-types, most notably Mega Alakazam and Tapu Lele, (AC) make excellent partners for Ash-Greninja, (AC) as they can remove Toxapex for it as well as pressuring blanket checks to special attackers. However, it should be noted that Tapu Lele's ability prevents Water Shuriken from being used for a short amount of time.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Life Orb is an option, but it wears Ash-Greninja down quickly and lacks the immediate power of Choice Specs.
* A set focused on coverage moves such as Extrasensory, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam as opposed to Greninja's STAB combination could be used, but it is outclassed by Protean Greninja.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Preventing Transformation**: Ash-Greninja is a nearly unstoppable wallbreaker after it transforms, so preventing its transformation is the most effective way to deal with it. Aggressively pivoting around it and avoiding using death fodder are just a couple of the ways that you can accomplish this.

**Bulky Water-types**: Tapu Fini can switch into Ash-Greninja with ease and threaten to KO it with Moonblast. Specially defensive Toxapex is also particularly annoying to deal with because it can easily switch into Greninja's Choice Specs-boosted Dark Pulse many times throughout the match, keeping it from transforming.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Grass-type Pokemon such as Assault Vest Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu can come in on both of Ash-Greninja's STAB moves and threaten to OHKO it with STAB Grass-type attacks in return. However, Tapu Bulu has to be careful of switching in when Stealth Rock is up because Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump from Ash-Greninja does a hefty chunk of damage.

**Faster Pokemon**: Faster Pokemon like Pheromosa, Mega Alakazam, and Choice Scarf Genesect, can revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but they have to be wary of switching directly into it. The same applies to Tapu Koko, except it can only revenge kill Greninja before transformation due to its lower Speed. Choice Scarf Keldeo in particular resists Ash-Greninja's STAB combination, and it can outspeed and threaten to KO with Secret Sword.

**Priority**: Priority moves such as Choice Band Genesect's Extreme Speed and Breloom's and as well as Conkeldurr's Mach Punch can potentially revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but its resistances to common priority moves such as Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch limit the pool of priority moves that can KO it from high HP.
 
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posted from the thread before:


I don't agree with the whole "specs is the only set" kind of thinking that's going on. Until transforming, sure, it's not protean and you shouldn't treat it as one. You should pick weakened targets/revenge kill. Pre-transform it's still hitting with Water and Dark as good as Protean. coverage moves are not as good, true, but you should treat Greninja before transforming as a late-game cleaner/revenge killer anyway.

after transforming:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 179-213 (58.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Ash-Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 161-190 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


yeah, it's 8% difference, it's can be significant in some min/max rolls, but it's still REALLY close. Protean is crazy good ability, but the stat boost make it close after transforming, close enough for getting almost the same kills as Protean with none-STAB, and higher damage with STAB.

Getting the transformation is the "high risk" of Ash-Greninja, but to be perfectly honest, it's more than manageable, quite easy if you pick Ice/Water/Dark weak targets. or even just effective damage with dual stabs.




by the way, it's stuck with hidden power Ghost, so no hidden power Electric.
 
there's little to no reason to use lo ash greninja over protean. the only benefit is the gained speed and more reliable water shuriken, but you trade that for a huge drop in power in your non-STABs prior to transforming, the significant power drop in your non-STABs after transforming, and the fact you have to kill a mon before it actually has any use. It's not incredibly easy to get kills when you're pretty much using Torrent Greninja, not to mention the fact it can't even use HP Fire so its coverage is even worse than before. Any good team will have either something that hard walls Greninja or can outspeed it, and if its coverage moves are a lot weaker than before it just becomes that much easier to handle it and so much harder to get a kill as Greninja.

Battle Bond Greninja is locked into 20 HP / 20 Def / 20 SDef IVs, by the way. They can't be perfected or anything either (at least according to PS, haven't tried it in game or heard otherwise)
 
TDK said:
there's little to no reason to use lo ash greninja over protean. the only benefit is the gained speed and more reliable water shuriken, but you trade that for a huge drop in power in your non-STABs prior to transforming, the significant power drop in your non-STABs after transforming, and the fact you have to kill a mon before it actually has any use. It's not incredibly easy to get kills when you're pretty much using Torrent Greninja, not to mention the fact it can't even use HP Fire so its coverage is even worse than before. Any good team will have either something that hard walls Greninja or can outspeed it, and if its coverage moves are a lot weaker than before it just becomes that much easier to handle it and so much harder to get a kill as Greninja.

Battle Bond Greninja is locked into 20 HP / 20 Def / 20 SDef IVs, by the way. They can't be perfected or anything either (at least according to PS, haven't tried it in game or heard otherwise)
Click to expand...

Hyper training allow you to "fake" perfect IV.

I still don't agree with you about "LO is trash don't use it", but meh. time will probably tell who's right anyway.
 
Mega Venusaur isn't tanking Specs Dark Pulse neither is Mantine unless it's a Specially Defensive spread which iirc isn't as popular as the physically defensive spread.

Tapu Koko doesn't outrun Ash Ninja either. You should mention Defensive Lando (VolTurn) in the team section since it can still run Z-Fly, set rocks, pivot, etc.

Grass Knot could get an oo mention or maybe in the set details for bulky Waters that can tank a Dark Pulse like Fini, Mega Gyara, Azu, etc.
 
if you don't just remove Scarf Xurkitree from the C&C section, at least add Tapu Koko since you mentioned it earlier in the analysis and it's a fair bit more viable/common than Scarf Xurkitree

I hope you meant Tapu Fini can threaten to OHKO Ash-Greninja with Moonblast, not Dark Pulse lol
 
Having spent more time with it, I agree with LO not being a good fit for Battle Bond Greninja.

Battle Bond Greninja is a hit and runner, both pre- and post transformation. It needs as much power as possible in order to secure those kills, and LO doesn't give it nearly enough juice. Also, Life Orb also comes with unnecessary recoil which makes it easier for the opponent to play around Greninja. There's never really a time when you want to switch moves anyway; Specs Hydro Pump+Dark Pulse post transformation 2HKOes just about everything after rocks, lol.

  • Use U-turn more before you transform because the provided momentum will be more significant than a weak pre-transformation hit, and use it in situations where your opponent has a solid switch in like Tapu Fini so that you can keep pressureon t
Click to expand...

It depends on your opponents team set up imo. Even pre-transformation, Specs Greninja's damage isn't too shabby, and you can wear down its checks with its STAB moves. U-turn should only be used if Greninja's ineffective against the enemy team OR it would be beneficial to U-turn in order to apply pressure (ie: U-turning into CB Hoopa-U)

  • Ash-Greninja isn't very strong until transformed, so try transform it as soon as possible vs a weakened target.
Click to expand...

While I understand what you're going for, this line isn't too useful. I'd add that you want to aggressively bring Greninja into weakened targets and pick them off in order to transform. Whether you do that via a revenge KO, double switch, U-turn, priority, etc.

  • Use Water Shuriken to revenge kill weakened Pokemon or offensive threats like Landorus-I and Pheromosa that are OHKOed by it.
Click to expand...

Maybe specify in Landorus-I's case you'd use it on Scarf variants, because you normally outspeed it. I would mention Scarf Landorus-T in that case, though.

In the counters section, mention SpD Toxapex. As long as its alive, it will consistently prevent Greninja from transforming, making it one of the best Battle Bond Greninja counters in the game, imo.
 
I'd mention strong Psychic-types such as Tapu Lele and MegaZam as partners, since they can blow past Toxapex and generally have great synergy by forcing switches and chunking the opponent with their high powered attacks. It's important to note that while Lele provides good synergy, Psychic Terrain prevents Greninja from using Water Shuriken. I haven't found this to be much of an issue, although there have been times where I forgot Psychic Terrain was up and clicked Water Shuriken anyway.

Another thing to note is that after transformation, Ash-Greninja actually outspeeds Tapu Koko, so it is no longer a reliable check once Battle Bond activates. Keldeo also cannot switch in, as it has a high chance to be 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, even after Leftovers recovery, and it is a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock or without Leftovers. Even max HP Tapu Bulu can't switch in if SR is on the field, as it is also nearly a guaranteed 2HKO with Grassy Terrain up. Literally nothing can switch in on Ash-Greninja post transformation except Toxapex, Tapu Fini and the rare Primarina, so the best counter to it is to prevent it from transforming in the first place - this should be emphasized more in the checks and counters section, i.e. utilizing death fodder to tank Greninja is undesirable due to the transformation.

One last thing, I would also mention how you can play mind games with the opponent before you fire off your first attack using Greninja, as they will not know the variant of Greninja you are running until you attack, which can be useful for forcing switches and gaining momentum in the battle.

Sorry for the wall of text, the analysis is actually quite good, I just thought adding a few more specific details could make it even better.

Damage Calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 159-187 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
 
I too will throw my support behind life orb on battle bond ninja being fucking terrible. it is horribly weak until you get that ko and very often by the time you manage to do that (which can really be an uphill battle to say the least) then you're nearly dead to sr/lo so you aren't even getting that many hits off. greninja does not have the longevity to be screwing around with lo trying to transform, either you hit stupid hard off the bat with protean lo or you're going with specs to have the extra power pre-transformation that will actually get you to change form as well as being durable enough to not be killing yourself while attempting to do so. oh and not having (stab) hp fire, which is one of lo's greatest weapons, blows. plus on life orb it's very nice to be able to change your type which can be incredibly useful in all sorts of the situation.

specs or bust on ash gren
 
Littlelucario said:
[OVERVIEW]
  • With the mechanical changes in Pokemon Sun and Moon, Greninja is given a new form known as Ash-Greninja that becomes a fearsome offensive Pokemon after knocking an opponent out.
  • The change to Water Shuriken, making it into a special attack, becoming more consistent with Greninja's other STAB moves in conjunction to having a guaranteed 60 Base Power after it transforms, makes this set a very effective revenge killer.
  • After transforming, Ash-Greninja's frightening offensive stats make it a pain to switch into its STAB moves.
  • Less prediction required as opposed to Protean Greninja as this moveset relies upon its main STAB attacks whereas Protean Greninja entirely relies on its coverage moves.
  • Ash-Greninja doesn't transform until it knocks out something, meaning that you are forced to use a Pokemon that's quite weak by OU standards until you knock an opponent out.
  • Ash-Greninja is very frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, so it can't switch into anything very well aside from weak resisted hits like Scald from Toxapex and Psychic-type moves.
mention something about its speed after battle bond when you mention its increased offenses, because it's so great getting the jump on things like koko and weav
[SET]
name: Stronger Together can you just name this choice specs or wallbreaker instead
move 1: Water Shuriken
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Water Shuriken is a very effective priority move, knocking out faster sweepers such as Pheromosa and Rock Polish Landorus-I (banned) in one turn and revenge killing weakened Pokemon.
  • Dark Pulse is the most spammable STAB move on this set, 2HKOing virtually every neutral target in the tier and having very few sturdy resists.
  • Hydro Pump is the best secondary STAB move because it allows you nuke the opposing team in situations where they lack good Water-type resists.
  • U-turn is the preferred move in the last slot because Greninja forces a lot of switches and it allows you to maintain momentum when your opponent switches into a Greninja check like Tapu Bulu without forcing you to predict.


Set Details
========
  • Max Special Attack coupled with max Speed and a Timid nature maximizes Greninja's damage output while allowing it to outspeed base fast Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Weavile after transforming. whats max speed gren outspeeding before battle bond
  • Choice Specs is the preferred item on this set, as it allows Ash-Greninja to fire off its powerful STAB attacks with a lot of power and ensuring that it doesn't get worn down when spamming U-turn.

Usage Tips
========
  • Use U-turn when the provided momentum will be more significant than getting damage vs a Pokemon that can wall it such as when your opponent has a defensive Tapu Fini to freely switch into Ash-Greninja, and when it's obvious that you have an opportunity to punish your opponent saccing a Pokemon
  • Before transforming, be aggressive with bringing Greninja into weakened targets that it can revenge kill so that your opponent is forced into an unfavorable position.
  • Try to bring in Ash-Greninja with free switches or with VoltTurn users to give it as many opportunities to fire off its Choice Specs boosted STAB moves.
  • Use Water Shuriken to revenge kill weakened Pokemon and offensive threats like Rock Polish Landorus-I and Pheromosa that are knocked out in one turn by it.
  • You can play mindgames with your opponent, bluffing Protean Greninja early-game and double switching out to cause confusion with your opponent until their team has been worn down to a point where they have to concede a kill to you.
mention after battle bond, greninja is rarely going to be using uturn because of the insane power of specs hydro and the fact that it nukes common water immunities with ease

Team Options
========
  • Swords Dance Landorus-T with Flynium Z can break through defensive Water-types that can be problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with as well as luring in Grass-types with Fly.
  • Dugtrio can be a very effective teammate for its ability to trap and cripple or KO Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Chansey that are problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with normally.
  • Pokemon that use Volt Switch or U-turn such as Genesect and Tapu Koko can form a momentum core for Ash-Greninja and give it opportunities to switch in and fire off its STAB moves.
  • Entry hazard support is very valuable for Ash-Greninja as it punishes the many switches that Greninja forces.
  • General physical wallbreakers such as Choice Band Kyurem-B are very good partners to beat the normal defensive answers to Greninja. such as?
  • Tapu Fini utilizing Nature's Madness makes an excellent teammate for Greninja because it can cripple Pokemon to a point that they can be revenge killed by Greninja. cripple what?
  • Offensive Psychic types, most notably Mega Alakazam and Tapu Lele make excellent partners for Ash-Greninja as they can remove Toxapex for Ash-Greninja as well as pressuring blanket checks to special attackers. However, it should be noted that Tapu Lele's ability prevents Water Shuriken from being used for a short amount of time.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • A Life Orb set focused on coverage moves such as Extrasensory, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam as opposed to Greninja's STAB combination could be used over Choice Specs, but it is mostly outclassed by Protean Greninja, and Greninja's Choice Specs boosted STAB attacks can 2HKO most resists regardless.
  • Hidden Power Ghost is the only available Hidden Power because Ash-Greninja is IV locked, and it is an inferior version of Dark Pulse.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Preventing Transformation**: Ash-Greninja is a nearly unstoppable wallbreaker after it transforms, so preventing its transformation is the best way to deal with Ash-Greninja effectively. Aggressively pivoting around it and avoiding using death fodder are just a couple of the ways that you can accomplish this.

**Bulky Water-types**: Tapu Fini can switch into Ash-Greninja with ease and threaten to KO it with Moonblast and Choioce Scarf Keldeo resists Ash-Greninja's STAB combination, and it can outspeed it and threaten to KO Ash-Greninja with Secret Sword. Specially Defensive Toxapex is also particularly annoying for Greninja to deal with because it can easily switch into normal Greninja's Choice Specs Dark Pulse many times throughout the match, keeping it from transforming.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Grass-type Pokemon such as Assault Vest Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu can come in on both of Ash-Greninja's STAB moves and threaten to OHKO it with STAB Grass-type attacks in return. However, Tapu Bulu has to be careful of switching in when Stealth Rock is up because Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Ash-Greninja does a hefty chunk of damage.

**Faster Pokemon**: Faster Pokemon like Pheromosa, Mega Alaakazam, Choice Scarf Genesect, and Choice Scarf Xurkitree (scarf xurk sucks, replace with literally anything else) can revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but they have to be wary of switching directly into it.
Click to expand...

1/3
 
The overview and set, more or less, appear to be fine.

The OO doesn't really need much, but it's so damn small that I feel like you should split what you currently have (LO bullet and other coverage moves bullet) into two and then you should be a bit better.

Add a bullet on priority in the C&C, imo

2/3
 
Littlelucario said:
Realistically gene is the only good prio user that can rkill ninja and it's only a matter of time until that boy gets banned, but I'll add it for now, and I implemented the other point.
Click to expand...
Mega-Pinsir does a lot to it w/ QA and Azu/Meta/Bish/Sciz are all at least chipping it to the extent that if you're under half and hazards are up, you need to be careful, so I'd say that the general point has enough validity in a practical context that it is noteworthy, even if there aren't too many outright examples that stand true universally.
 
GP 1/1
ivvxQRa.gif

[OVERVIEW]

* With the mechanical changes in Pokemon Sun and Moon, Greninja transforms into is given a new form known as Ash-Greninja, (AC) that becomes a fearsome offensive Pokemon, (AC) after knocking an opponent foe out. (lots of generational shift fluff, which we're supposed to remove. also since someone else is prob going to say it, it's good to start the overview with what the mon does / what it brings to a team. then considering the fact that you also mention how Greninja transforms later in this overview, i would probably scrap + rework this bullet aside from the fearsome offensive Pokemon part.)
* The change to Water Shuriken, making it into a special attack, becoming more consistent with Greninja's other STAB moves in conjunction to having is a special attack with a guaranteed 60 Base Power after it Greninja transforms, makes making Ash-Greninja this set a very effective revenge killer.
* After transforming, Ash-Greninja's frightening offensive stats make it a pain to switch into its STAB moves, and it's speed the Speed increase also lets it rises to frightening levels, (repetitive) outspeeding otherwise faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko.
* Less prediction is required with Ash-Greninja than as opposed to Protean Greninja, (AC) as it this moveset relies upon its main STAB attacks instead of whereas Protean Greninja entirely relies on its coverage moves.
* Ash-Greninja doesn't transform until it knocks out (ftr you can say KOes here if you like) something, meaning that you are forced to use a Pokemon that's quite weak by OU standards until you it knocks a foe an opponent out.
* Ash-Greninja is very frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, so it can't switch into anything very well aside from weak resisted hits like Scald from Toxapex and Psychic-type moves.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Shuriken
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Water Shuriken is a very effective priority move, knocking out faster sweepers such as Pheromosa in one turn and revenge killing weakened Pokemon.
* Dark Pulse is the most spammable STAB move on this set, 2HKOing virtually every neutral target in the tier and having very few sturdy resists (this can't be used as a noun. is "switch-ins" a suitable replacement? otherwise you have to rephrase it to "having very few sturdy Pokemon that resist it").
* Hydro Pump is the best secondary STAB move because it allows you to nuke the opposing team in situations where they lack good Water-type resists (same thing. change to "switch-ins" unless that is factually incorrect, in which case change to "where they lack good Water-resistant Pokemon").
* U-turn is useful the preferred move in the last slot because Greninja forces a lot of switches, (AC) and it allows you to maintain momentum when your opponent switches into a Greninja check like Tapu Bulu without forcing you to predict.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Special Attack coupled with maximum Speed and a Timid nature maximizes Greninja's damage output while allowing it to outspeed base fast Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Weavile after transforming as well as Starmie and Mega Metagross before transforming.
* Choice Specs is the preferred item on this set, as it allows Ash-Greninja to fire off its powerful STAB attacks with a lot of power and ensuring ensures that it doesn't get worn down when spamming U-turn.

Usage Tips
========

* Use U-turn when the provided momentum will be more significant than getting damage vs against a Pokemon that can wall it, (AC) such as when your opponent has a defensive Tapu Fini to freely switch into Ash-Greninja, and when it's obvious that you have an opportunity to punish your opponent saccing sacrificing a Pokemon.
* Before transforming, be aggressive with bringing Greninja into weakened targets that it can revenge kill so that your opponent is forced into an unfavorable position.
* Try to bring in Ash-Greninja with free switches or with VoltTurn users to give it as many opportunities to fire off its Choice Specs-boosted STAB moves.
* Use Water Shuriken to revenge kill weakened Pokemon and offensive threats like Pheromosa that are knocked out in one turn (I think just saying OHKOed is fine) by it.
* You can play mind games with your opponent, bluffing Protean Greninja early-game and double switching out to confuse them cause confusion with your opponent until their team has been worn down to a point where they have to concede a kill to you ("kill" is not allowed, is "to a point where they have to sacrifice a Pokemon" fine?).
* Lastly, you will rarely use U-turn after transforming due to just how powerful Ash-Greninja's attacks are after it transforms.

Team Options
========

* Swords Dance Landorus-T with Flynium Z can break through defensive Water-types that can be problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with as well as luring in surprising Grass-types with Fly. (read this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gyarados.3588592/#post-7127871 )
* Dugtrio can be a very effective teammate for its ability to trap and cripple or KO Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Chansey that are problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with normally.
* Pokemon that use Volt Switch or U-turn such as Genesect and Tapu Koko can form a momentum core for (for or with?) Ash-Greninja and give it opportunities to switch in and fire off its STAB moves.
* Entry hazard support is very valuable for Ash-Greninja, (AC) as it punishes the many switches that Greninja forces.
* General physical wallbreakers such as Choice Band Kyurem-B are very good partners to beat the normal defensive answers to Greninja such as Chansey.
* Tapu Fini utilizing Nature's Madness makes an excellent teammate for Greninja because it can cripple Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu to a point that they can't switch into Ash-Greninja.
* Offensive Psychic-types, most notably Mega Alakazam and Tapu Lele, (AC) make excellent partners for Ash-Greninja, (AC) as they can remove Toxapex for it Ash-Greninja as well as pressuring blanket checks to special attackers. However, it should be noted that Tapu Lele's ability prevents Water Shuriken from being used for a short amount of time.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Life Orb is an option, but it wears Ash-Greninja down quickly and lacks the immediate power of Choice Specs.
* A set focused on coverage moves such as Extrasensory, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam as opposed to Greninja's STAB combination could be used, but it is outclassed by Protean Greninja.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Preventing Transformation**: Ash-Greninja is a nearly unstoppable wallbreaker after it transforms, so preventing its transformation is the best most effective way to deal with it Ash-Greninja effectively. Aggressively pivoting around it and avoiding using death fodder are just a couple of the ways that you can accomplish this.

**Bulky Water-types**: Tapu Fini can switch into Ash-Greninja with ease and threaten to KO it with Moonblast, while Choice and Choioce Scarf Keldeo resists Ash-Greninja's STAB combination, (RC) and it can outspeed it and threaten to KO Ash-Greninja with Secret Sword. Specially defensive Toxapex is also particularly annoying for Greninja to deal with because it can easily switch into normal Greninja's Choice Specs-boosted Dark Pulse many times throughout the match, keeping it from transforming.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Grass-type Pokemon such as Assault Vest Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu can come in on both of Ash-Greninja's STAB moves and threaten to OHKO it with STAB Grass-type attacks in return. However, Tapu Bulu has to be careful of switching in when Stealth Rock is up because Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump from Ash-Greninja does a hefty chunk of damage.

**Faster Pokemon**: Faster Pokemon like Pheromosa, Mega Alakazam, and Choice Scarf Genesect, and Tapu Koko (pre-transformation) can revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but they have to be wary of switching directly into it. The same applies to Tapu Koko, except it can only revenge kill Greninja before transformation due to its lower Speed.

**Priority**: Priority moves such as Choice Band Genesect's Extreme Speed and Breloom's and as well as Conkeldurr's Mach Punch can potentially revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but its Greninja's resistances to common priority moves such as Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch limits the pool of priority moves that can KO it Ash-Greninja with priority moves from a high range of HP.
 
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Could a Modest nature work? I mean, Water Shuriken could use the extra power, and since it has priority, I'd think Speed is less important. (Besides it gets a boost from the ability).
 
P Squared said:
GP 1/1
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[OVERVIEW]

* With the mechanical changes in Pokemon Sun and Moon, Greninja transforms into is given a new form known as Ash-Greninja, (AC) that becomes a fearsome offensive Pokemon, (AC) after knocking an opponent foe out. (lots of generational shift fluff, which we're supposed to remove. also since someone else is prob going to say it, it's good to start the overview with what the mon does / what it brings to a team. then considering the fact that you also mention how Greninja transforms later in this overview, i would probably scrap + rework this bullet aside from the fearsome offensive Pokemon part.)
* The change to Water Shuriken, making it into a special attack, becoming more consistent with Greninja's other STAB moves in conjunction to having is a special attack with a guaranteed 60 Base Power after it Greninja transforms, makes making Ash-Greninja this set a very effective revenge killer.
* After transforming, Ash-Greninja's frightening offensive stats make it a pain to switch into its STAB moves, and it's speed the Speed increase also lets it rises to frightening levels, (repetitive) outspeeding otherwise faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko.
* Less prediction is required with Ash-Greninja than as opposed to Protean Greninja, (AC) as it this moveset relies upon its main STAB attacks instead of whereas Protean Greninja entirely relies on its coverage moves.
* Ash-Greninja doesn't transform until it knocks out (ftr you can say KOes here if you like) something, meaning that you are forced to use a Pokemon that's quite weak by OU standards until you it knocks a foe an opponent out.
* Ash-Greninja is very frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, so it can't switch into anything very well aside from weak resisted hits like Scald from Toxapex and Psychic-type moves.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Shuriken
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: U-turn
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Water Shuriken is a very effective priority move, knocking out faster sweepers such as Pheromosa in one turn and revenge killing weakened Pokemon.
* Dark Pulse is the most spammable STAB move on this set, 2HKOing virtually every neutral target in the tier and having very few sturdy resists (this can't be used as a noun. is "switch-ins" a suitable replacement? otherwise you have to rephrase it to "having very few sturdy Pokemon that resist it").
* Hydro Pump is the best secondary STAB move because it allows you to nuke the opposing team in situations where they lack good Water-type resists (same thing. change to "switch-ins" unless that is factually incorrect, in which case change to "where they lack good Water-resistant Pokemon").
* U-turn is useful the preferred move in the last slot because Greninja forces a lot of switches, (AC) and it allows you to maintain momentum when your opponent switches into a Greninja check like Tapu Bulu without forcing you to predict.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Special Attack coupled with maximum Speed and a Timid nature maximizes Greninja's damage output while allowing it to outspeed base fast Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Weavile after transforming as well as Starmie and Mega Metagross before transforming.
* Choice Specs is the preferred item on this set, as it allows Ash-Greninja to fire off its powerful STAB attacks with a lot of power and ensuring ensures that it doesn't get worn down when spamming U-turn.

Usage Tips
========

* Use U-turn when the provided momentum will be more significant than getting damage vs against a Pokemon that can wall it, (AC) such as when your opponent has a defensive Tapu Fini to freely switch into Ash-Greninja, and when it's obvious that you have an opportunity to punish your opponent saccing sacrificing a Pokemon.
* Before transforming, be aggressive with bringing Greninja into weakened targets that it can revenge kill so that your opponent is forced into an unfavorable position.
* Try to bring in Ash-Greninja with free switches or with VoltTurn users to give it as many opportunities to fire off its Choice Specs-boosted STAB moves.
* Use Water Shuriken to revenge kill weakened Pokemon and offensive threats like Pheromosa that are knocked out in one turn (I think just saying OHKOed is fine) by it.
* You can play mind games with your opponent, bluffing Protean Greninja early-game and double switching out to confuse them cause confusion with your opponent until their team has been worn down to a point where they have to concede a kill to you ("kill" is not allowed, is "to a point where they have to sacrifice a Pokemon" fine?).
* Lastly, you will rarely use U-turn after transforming due to just how powerful Ash-Greninja's attacks are after it transforms.

Team Options
========

* Swords Dance Landorus-T with Flynium Z can break through defensive Water-types that can be problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with as well as luring in surprising Grass-types with Fly. (read this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gyarados.3588592/#post-7127871 )
* Dugtrio can be a very effective teammate for its ability to trap and cripple or KO Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and Chansey that are problematic for Ash-Greninja to deal with normally.
* Pokemon that use Volt Switch or U-turn such as Genesect and Tapu Koko can form a momentum core for (for or with?) Ash-Greninja and give it opportunities to switch in and fire off its STAB moves.
* Entry hazard support is very valuable for Ash-Greninja, (AC) as it punishes the many switches that Greninja forces.
* General physical wallbreakers such as Choice Band Kyurem-B are very good partners to beat the normal defensive answers to Greninja such as Chansey.
* Tapu Fini utilizing Nature's Madness makes an excellent teammate for Greninja because it can cripple Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu to a point that they can't switch into Ash-Greninja.
* Offensive Psychic-types, most notably Mega Alakazam and Tapu Lele, (AC) make excellent partners for Ash-Greninja, (AC) as they can remove Toxapex for it Ash-Greninja as well as pressuring blanket checks to special attackers. However, it should be noted that Tapu Lele's ability prevents Water Shuriken from being used for a short amount of time.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Life Orb is an option, but it wears Ash-Greninja down quickly and lacks the immediate power of Choice Specs.
* A set focused on coverage moves such as Extrasensory, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam as opposed to Greninja's STAB combination could be used, but it is outclassed by Protean Greninja.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Preventing Transformation**: Ash-Greninja is a nearly unstoppable wallbreaker after it transforms, so preventing its transformation is the best most effective way to deal with it Ash-Greninja effectively. Aggressively pivoting around it and avoiding using death fodder are just a couple of the ways that you can accomplish this.

**Bulky Water-types**: Tapu Fini can switch into Ash-Greninja with ease and threaten to KO it with Moonblast, while Choice and Choioce Scarf Keldeo resists Ash-Greninja's STAB combination, (RC) and it can outspeed it and threaten to KO Ash-Greninja with Secret Sword. Specially defensive Toxapex is also particularly annoying for Greninja to deal with because it can easily switch into normal Greninja's Choice Specs-boosted Dark Pulse many times throughout the match, keeping it from transforming.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Grass-type Pokemon such as Assault Vest Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu can come in on both of Ash-Greninja's STAB moves and threaten to OHKO it with STAB Grass-type attacks in return. However, Tapu Bulu has to be careful of switching in when Stealth Rock is up because Choice Specs-boosted Hydro Pump from Ash-Greninja does a hefty chunk of damage.

**Faster Pokemon**: Faster Pokemon like Pheromosa, Mega Alakazam, and Choice Scarf Genesect, and Tapu Koko (pre-transformation) can revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but they have to be wary of switching directly into it. The same applies to Tapu Koko, except it can only revenge kill Greninja before transformation due to its lower Speed.

**Priority**: Priority moves such as Choice Band Genesect's Extreme Speed and Breloom's and as well as Conkeldurr's Mach Punch can potentially revenge kill Ash-Greninja, but its Greninja's resistances to common priority moves such as Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch limits the pool of priority moves that can KO it Ash-Greninja with priority moves from a high range of HP.
Click to expand...
implemented, this is done now
 
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